The Wendigo - Swift Runner

Morning. The following contest contains graphic content and material intended for a mature audience. Listener discretion is advised.

Hey, what's up.

I'm Nicole and I'm Ben, and you are listening to Wicked and Grim.

A true crime podcast, And just like that, we're here. We're here, and Ben's voice might be a little bit aspect. We were struck.

We was struck by lightning called COVID.

Yeah, well you you so far?

Yeah, I tested positive for COVID today, So that sucks.

That super sucks. It was like my life going on to get the shit.

Yeah, this entire pandemic. You and I both made it without getting COVID so far until I had to go on a work trip down to Vancouver and I come home with the corona.

I might still be safe, though. You might be crossings.

You may be. I just kind of feel like I have a cold, so a little bit coffee, kind of raspy sounding, a little tired, very tired, I'd say, yeah, fair enough. But other than that, like I'm not any sort of crazy fever, nothing like that, you know, it just seems like a cold.

Yeah, which is really good. Yeah, half of our house is sick. You and Ripley. Ripley has an ear and Ripley has a nasty ear infection.

Yeah, so so that's our house.

It's pretty exciting.

It's basically a containment unit right now.

In a tiny home. So the rest of us are doomed.

Yes, you are doomed. You're gonna get sick. You fucked.

Wow. I'm trying the whole positive thinking thing.

That knock on wood doesn't usually work.

For me, but I'm trying it.

We'll keep those hopes up. I'm sure I'm rooting for you. I'm rooting for you, Mika and Kiwi.

Well, every time you were breathing in my face, Lass and I was like, can you turn over, don't breathe them.

Up, Ice, don't breathe them up Ice. Maybe Ripley and I will take our sick asses and just curl up on the coach together cuddle all night.

You would love that.

Okay, that dog does some amazing cuddles.

She's a very good snuggler.

She snuggles like a motherfucker, And you can quote me.

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Pronounce the first one wrong, just kidding, Poochie there pronounced I pronounced the first one wrong, very wrong.

What did you say, even, poo Hai. I was just kidding, like you wouldn't be able to you know, how to say that.

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And it's just like a beautiful name.

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Yeah you posted on instead, didn't you. I did the one of the new designs.

Well Insto and Facebook because they're linked, right right right, Yeah, but I did up a design today because we realized, like you know, our merch is we love some of the stuff we have for merch, but we have like a lot of black and white just kind of stagnant stuff. Is fitting, Oh yeah, totally love it, but we just want that variety that's spice a life for you all

You have some extra time on your hands.

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I love the nineties colors same like you're just so actually nineties everything is just so fun. What happened?

That's true? I think that was right where we started, like the seat belt era sort of thing, as I would like to say it, like where everyone needs to like the safetiness, you know.

Because like, would we be considered ninety nineties kids?

Oh yeah, or do you have to be.

Born in the nineties. No, we're because we were born in the eighties and then we grew up in the nineties, so yeah, yeah, we.

Were born in nineteen eighty eight, so we were definitely nineties kids. How old were you in the nineties A kid?

I was growing up, but I didn't know if you had to be considered born in that. I don't think, oh, we can never be considered eighties kids, because that's like I have no idea what happened.

In the eies. Yeah, we were at oldest two in the eighties, so we were definitely nineties babies, nineties kids, whatever you want to say, Well, yes, not.

I just think the nineties were words at where it was at like so fun.

I had so much awesome stuff like moonshoes.

Hello, yeah, my goodness, you.

Might snap your ankle, but you're also going to be jumping super fucking high and you're gonna look dope as fuck doing it.

Oh And I just even remember like all your the cassettes that you had right like because you were listening to tapes and stuff. They're just like sobrightly colored and so cool and just I don't know, everything was wicked.

I never had bright colored cassettes. I had like like the pack of blank cassettes my parents would buy, and then I just record songs up the radio. I would go to like the call in request line, request my favorite song, and sit there and wait, and as soon as it started playing, hit record and record my song.

Oh man, you were legit.

Hey, I was legit.

I'm trying to look up that one. It was a oh Lisa Frank. I don't know if anyone remembers that Lisa Frank. It was like stationary that was just like so brightly colored. Do you recognize that I lived for that?

Shit?

That basically sums me up as a nineties kid.

Wow.

I don't know if anyone else here remembers Lisa Frank.

But Pokemon and game Boy. That sums me up as a nineties kid. Yeah.

Okay, what else we got is that everything?

Should we get down into.

This, I feel like that's everything. Yeah, I'm ready, Okay, Ready.

We thanked her patrons, We talked about the merch. Let everyone know that I have COVID so you can all send me sympathy.

Holy heck, Oh you're funny.

I think that's it. That's all we got to talk about. We're going to go into this case. Now you're ready for it?

Yeah, I'm very much so, am.

Let's dive into the case of swift render, the when to Go psychosis case.

M I know absolutely nothing about any of this, so I'm intrigued.

First off, do you know what a when to go is?

I have no idea.

You have no idea?

What is that embarrassing? Should I know what it is?

No? Not necessarily. It's more of a cryptid sort of thing. So okay, we'll get all into it. Let's just start off here. Okay. So hunger a natural feeling, you know, puts your body into a basic survival mode. Now, if pushed far enough, it will seek nourishment above all other reason in search of satisfaction. The solution is easy, you know, of course, But what if you can't satisfy your hunger no matter how you indulge your craving effect. What if

Don't love it, don't love that, don't love it.

No, that's that's that's a big old nope.

No, I'll pass.

I'll pass. No. Thanks on the wind to go past the salt.

Let's me move on something else and the butter.

Yeah, maybe some gravy down this end of the table. Okay, So that's that's a wind to go. Now into this case of a swift runner. Kakisi Kuchin was born in the province of Alberta or what would later be called Alberta, and lived in the wild country north of Fort Edmonton. He was more known by his name swift Runner, and so from here on I will be referring to him as such. He was a large man six foot three, and as a young cree man he received a very

Jason another pop qu this.

Isn't here, full marks, full marks.

He sounds like a dude.

Definitely, definitely good dude. But quick side note, even though you have full marks, you might want to come see the teacher after class. Wow.

Wow, Okay, this and the pre show that is going up on Patreon, Like, what's.

With you what?

I'm going to run for the hills?

Wow? Thanks? You know your husband's putting the moves on and you're gonna run. I love you too.

Oh my goodness, I love you too.

Anyways, with this topic alone, like it's it's a it's a large shameful topic for Canadian history. Oh wow, I jumped ahead something here. Okay, So with this topic alone coming up, it's a large shameful topic in Canadian history because swift Runner would later develop a taste for whiskey. And this topic is something that's still being felt today within Aboriginal communities. Extremely unfortunate, but that is where we

Yeah, it that way.

Now, it is said that swift Runner didn't turn to whiskey on his own to start with. He was beginning to become less It was getting become less of an effective hunter. He would bring back less and less provide for his family, which is what drove him to his drink of choice, whiskey. However, much of the alcohol in the area was actually being smegled in under the guise of medicine, so it's not seriously yes, so it's scarcity may have made it even more alluring to individuals suffering

Clearly that's too bad. I mean that still happens to this day. Oh definitely, people are using alcohol and stuff to cope with, cope with issues or that they're having or not feeling I don't know, as good about themselves or something that they're doing as they should right.

And there are Aboriginal bands that are trying to take efforts in minimizing the effect because I know there are areas where like on certain reservations, they don't allow alcohol in the premises of those certain bands and everything. So good on them for trying to take those steps.

That totally awesome.

Now soon though, the violence surrounding swift Runner as he continued to drink ran him out of a job of guiding with the Northwest Mounted Police. The police would send swift Runner back to his tribe, but instead of finding a safe place where he could, you know, get better, he continued to get worse because he just caused troubles for the rest of the Cree I quote unquote turned

So he was himself was turning the Cree camps into little hells.

Yes, because of his drinking and rage filled fits and everything. He was just not doing good for his own community. Sort of, Yeah, it was getting bad.

It does seem like it's one sometimes one away the other. Hey, like lots of you're just like super happy or whatever, but then sometimes it can bring like evil kind of owned people really unfortunate.

Well, you know how alcohol is known as spirits. M Yeah, there's a reason they call it spirits because a lot of a lot of tribes all over the world, in fact, look at alcohol as a way of like it's an actual spirit possessing your So when you drink and you're drunk, that's no longer you. It's a spirit possession. So that's where the name spirits come from because.

Of that interesting little known fact of the.

Day for you, No kidding, I never heard that before, did you, No?

Because I kind of thought it was something else like I've heard before, not necessarily this is like truer in this case, but that it brings out your true self sometimes, right, But then I don't know if I agree with that being his true self.

So yeah, So anyways, with nowhere to go, in the winter of eighteen seventy eight, him, his wife, mother, brother, and six children set out and weren't heard from until the spring, when swift Runner staggered out of the woods and into a nearby Catholic mission. Priests at the mission brought swift Runner in and asked what had happened, and swift Runner responded very simply. He told him exactly what

Oh my gosh, that's rough.

Yeah, could you imagine being in that situation?

Now?

That sounds just like literal hell.

Yeah, literal hell yeah. It was the tragic story, clearly, but a story the priests had a hard time believing.

Okay, why is that?

Well? Swift Runner was a large, burly man when he first left with his family and weighing around two hundred pounds. As he emerged, he certainly didn't seem like starvation was something he had struggled with. In fact, he looked pretty healthy.

Okay, I just have a terrible feeling about this.

Oh and what's that?

I don't want to say, you don't want to say. I'm just gonna keep thinking positively here.

Just keep positive thoughts, positive thoughts.

Everything is positive thoughts.

Okay, keep those positive thoughts flowing because you're gonna need them. So if the story of a harsh winter and lack of food supply killed basically everyone, then why was he not affected? Why hadn't he succumbed to starvation? Not to mention that there's plenty of other indigenous individuals in the area that you know, we're emerging in the spring and everything, who had a rather successful winter, no problems hunting or trapping. The food sources were clearly there for everyone else, So

Yeah I would be running again.

Yeah, nope, I'm out. I'm going to go sleep in the bush.

That's terrible. Well, you think someone was like intruding.

Or something that's not normal? Sounds no kidding. Uh So the fucking terrifying this of that situation aside. The final straw that broke the Camel's back when swift was when swift Runner tried to lead a group of children into the woods with him. Holy heck, something was clearly up and convinced that his family didn't actually starve and that

Don't do it. It's not gonna be a good scene.

No, what do you think? What are you expecting us to come across at this scene? Let's hear it. I want to know.

Well, actually, I think that there's probably gonna be nothing there because I think he probably hid things or maybe there'd be bones. I feel like like he probably ate his family. I hate saying that. Thanks for making me say that, but that's what I think happened.

You think he ate his family?

Hey, yeah, well doesn't that kind of what you said at the beginning?

Ish, Well, that's what when I make that up, I was talking about a when to go?

Yeah, so I think that well, and the fact that like if everyone's starved to death but he still looked like he had eaten all winter, that just doesn't add up. That doesn't make any sense.

Yeah, that's a big old red flag.

Right, there because if he's surviving and like has weighed on and stuff, then why on earth was his family not right? Yeah, so this is not a good thing. This is not a good scene.

You're definitely on the right track. Let's put it that way right on. So at this point, though, there is there is a couple of discrepancies in the story that cannot be confirmed. Some sources say that swift Runner took police directly to the site, while others say that he kept trying to mislead them off the trail but finally cooperated after becoming inebriated with whiskey. But the facts do

Okay, so it was things weren't hidden and stuff, And were they using whiskey to get him to take them where they wanted?

Who knows? Potentially? Oh I don't love that, Yeah, me either, But at least they got there. That's all we do know that. Like I said, there's discrepancies in that part of the story. There's no confirming if that was the case, but it may have been.

Okay, well, are you going to describe the scene to us?

Well, when they were arrived to the scene, they found remnants of like, you know, campfire, that sort of stuff, you know, people staying there. Okay, But they also found bones scattered everywhere, human bones scattered everywhere. Some were broken in half in fact, and hollowed out, which could only mean one thing. They were being snapped open and someone was sucking out the marrow from the inside.

No, yes, wow, ross.

They found the skull of swift Runner's mother with a small moccasin stuffed inside her skull. It had still it still had the beating needle attached to it and sticking out of the unfinished words.

Oh my goodness, this is exactly what I didn't want to happen here.

That's exactly what is happening here, though, what you just expected, like to go into the woods and find snow White and the seven dwarves just bacon applepies.

That's literally on my brain works, and I have no idea some is why I'm doing this, and that I still have that mindset in my brain. It's really weird. Maybe another one hundred episodes it will change.

We'll see maybe we'll see. We'll see, we'll discuss that.

When we get there our next anniversary. We'll see how it still is.

You'll probably still be expecting snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. They came upon Sleeping Beauty, right, Prince Charming.

That's not a terrible thing.

No, definitely not. It's it's just, uh, we aren't not the world we live in, unfortunately, I know. Uh So clearly their suspicions of a murder and b cannibalism were true, but they were one hundred percent confirmed the moment they discovered a pot full of rendered human fat.

Okay, yeah, this is probably where why we need to film more episodes sometimes because like the reactions, the reactions like you don't even know what the hell to say, but it's like your faces at all.

Yeah, that's fair. So this is the moment that swift Runner revealed what he said really happened. It was the wind to go Apparently here he started breaking down and he told them he had been possessed by the evil spirit and he was forced to kill and feast upon his own family. Dang, yeah, now, like I understand, it's it's clearly not hard to look at someone and be like, yeah,

So killing your whole family, people wouldn't believe that, Rotaally.

No, Like killing your whole family and blaming it on a spirit like that sounds like a copp out. It clearly wasn't going to get him off the hook. Let's put it that. Let's just put it that way.

It sounds like someone with a mental illness.

It potentially very much could. Yeah. He quickly was taken to trial in eighteen seventy nine, and he was tried for murder and cannibalism. The jury included three English speaking mixed Crees, four men who were well up on their Cree language, and a Cree man who translated the proceedings. A leading Cree English scholar was also brought in to observe the trial and ensure swift Runner was being made

That's super good, actually, I because I highly expected in a situation like this to just like throw to the wolves, you know, and just like a trial for the purpose of just making this guy guilty.

Well it was a long time ago too.

Oh exactly in eighteen eighty. Yeah, and they ensured that this individual like was taken care of in the trial.

That's impressive.

Actually, yeah, I was very impressed with that. So that's really good.

I really wish you would have not said the bone marrow thing, because it's making me like feel like I'm gonna like that is just too much. I can't it's all that's going through my brain right now.

Yeah, it was.

I took my tea and I almost sawt like I was gonna not be able to swallow that.

It's just tea. It's not liquefied bone.

Oh okay, sorry, let's carry on here.

I just turned like a marrow in your cup. It's not that, don't worry. It's not that it's too much, Okay that I'm going to leave you alone with that. I'm not going to poke you too much. Now. During the trial, swift Runner sat calmly throughout the testimony of witnesses and the remaining of the trial that now that the testimonies were individuals who talked about how they saw the family before they left and went into the woods.

I really don't think you can.

At least not with our knowledge today on spiritual and technology and all this sort of like we have no way of approving it.

Well, yeah, I don't think that you could approve it in accord And okay, so was that a known thing? A when to go? Was that like a known thing to people in like.

Their tribes and stuff. It was definitely like a tale spirit of something that they had in law and legend, but not so much like oh, the European settlers and stuff, they just inherently know what a wind to go is. No, it definitely came from from like the tribespeople think. Okay, So when it was finally swift Runner's turn to speak at his trial, he was asked if he wanted to say anything in his own defense, and he responded with one short, simple reply. He stood up, he addressed the court,

What the it seems like I can't believe what happened, Like you the way that you introduced him at the beginning, to how he is now, I'm just I just yeah, I don't get it.

Well, that's the interesting thing that it's like, would someone of clear sound mind, as far as we can tell, and in good proceedings with the community and everything and who he is, do something like that on his own, or would he do it under the influence of a spirit.

But then even him just standing up and saying I did it, Like, where's the remorse. And then I'm also curious if when they were in the woods and stuff, did they have access to alcohol.

That's a good question.

I don't know, because I mean, like, when you're intoxicated, you a lot of weird shit can happen in your I mean.

I'm going to assume, now this is just me assuming, but I'm going to assume that swift Runner would have taken whiskey with him, yes.

Okay, because I was only assume that there wasn't much. But I have no idea.

I don't know how much or what. Yeah, but I'm going to assume that he did take some with him. Now, after only twenty minutes on trial, swift Runner was found guilty and after twenty minutes of deliberation, they sentenced him to death.

Yikes.

So on December twentieth, in eighteen seventy nine, Canada would make a mark in history for its first ever official hanging by the Northwest Mounted Police.

That was the first one.

This was the first ever legal hanging. Wow that took place in Canada.

Wow okay yea.

So over sixty citizens gathered and bared witness to a large man who we know as swift Runner. He was led to his final moments in the swirling snow and the winds of the cold, and his final moments of preparation. Swift Runner is said to have offered to perform the execution himself if they simply gave him a tomahawk. I can't confirm or deny that, but those are stories that I have read. But they didn't give in to him though. Instead, he was led to the scaffold that was built especially

Is that that would have been a lot? Probably?

He would have been a good, good chunk of change.

Yeah. Yeah.

Swift Runner had a rope draped over his head and then it was cinched tight around his neck. Then moments later he was dropped off the gallows and as he fell, the rope tightened and the sound of a neck breaking would have been heard as he was left to dangle.

Man, this is heartbreaking.

You good, Yeah, I'm good.

I just feel so sad for this whole story. It's really quite sad.

It definitely is. I think the worst part about it is there's so much unknown we don't know. Was there influence on a spirit called wendigo? Is that true? Was he an innocent man who has just taken possession of and taken advantage of, or was the spirit of a wendigo the literal spirit of whiskey and he was taken advantage of by the local European settlers are quote unquote the white man the whend to go in this situation? Or was he really suffering from mental illness.

Or was he so many options.

There's so many, there's so many. Was he suffering from a complex of losing his hunting abilities or was he really just a bad individual? We don't know.

Yeah, I'm going to say it's the whiskey or oh I lost the other one mental illness?

Right, yeah, yeah, I don't know. It's it's so hard, but that's.

Probably so terrible. I mean, not that I don't believe in spirits, but it's like, yeah, how do you prove that it's just his word? Really? Right?

Yeah? That's it.

That's it. Yeah.

So anyways, the death sentence was, like I said, the first legal hanging in Canada. Now, swift Runner declined to spend the night before his execution with a priest, an act that was surely meant to give him time to repent and confess. However, swift Runner declined and responded by saying, the white Man has ruined me. I don't think their god could amount to much. Wow, that's brutal.

Hey, that's very brutal. Yeah, that actually shows some remorse right there. I think he realizes, like what happened. I think that it was probably the alcohol.

I think so too, But but I'm not, like, I don't want to rule out something like the wend to.

Go because you can't the.

Thought of Okay, I'm gonna get a little bit like weird here. You know what dimensions are? Right? Yes, so we currently live in a three dimensional world.

Okay, three d yep, yep.

There's potentially more dimensions around us that we can't view, and it's it's really hard to explain. It's a little bit of a lengthy process. But long story short, there could potentially be a fourth dimension that we live in. We just can't perceive it. Our senses that we have as humans can't perceive it. Some people say, that's why you know your dog and cat looks in the corner real weird, oh man? Because they can see something that we can't, something that could.

Be, or even children sometimes they think great exactly.

Yeah, So who's to say that there isn't a being called a wind to go in said fourth dimension that we just simply can't perceive.

Yeah, it could be totally. I just my thought is like, if there wasn't, say, up until this shit happened, his character was how you described at the very beginning, yeap, and that alcohol wasn't in play or in factor at all, then I would think that the when to Go thing is like, yeah, like way more believable for some reason in my mind.

If that makes sense, Yeah, yeah, I totally get that. So on topic of the wendigo, it's actually called wendigo psychosis. Clinically, it's considered an endemic psychiatric disorder associated with culture. It manifests through compulsion strong attacks of cannibalism cannibalistic behavior, and it mainly concerns the Algonquin Cree tribes and people having living in the northern obi Wa Ojibois Ojibwa there we

Yeah. I mean, I'm going back and forth a little bit because honestly, like alcohol or not, Like, that's pretty fucked up to like each your family.

Oh yeah, that's fucked up.

I don't know. I don't know.

He done did do a bad thing. We're not saying that, yeah he didn't.

Oh no, we know that. It's just like, yeah, maybe this is really Yeah.

There is one final thing I want to add to Swift Prinner's story. Again, this is another thing that I can't I couldn't confirm in my research, but some say that he originally got his taste for human flesh when he was out hunting one winter with another hunter. The detail again tend to be very you know, up for debate. But for whatever reason, they ran out of food and in the cold climates, they needed to survive, and so swift Runner turned to him and aid him to stay alive.

Maybe it tastes really good, just like chicken. Is that what they say?

I have no idea. I think it's closer to the lines of pork. I think there's actual there's there's human flesh. What is it synthesized human flesh that you can try?

Actually, oh right, I have heard this.

Yeah, I think we talked about it on another Yeah.

That's so interesting. Yeah, and then we talked about, oh hell, we should have eaten crocodile or alligator. We should have should have I freaking told you to.

But I wanted to eat with you one day.

Okay, next time I will.

But that is the tale of swift Runner, And like I say, when to go psychosis, it's a rabbit hole to get going down. A swift runner story is fairly cut and dry. But again, once you get to the stories of the Whnd to Go or the alcohol, that's where a lot of if ends or butts and opinions come in. So it's major rabbit holes.

From there, well, I could imagine.

And as for today, the Whend to Go itself has turned into much more of a cryptid kind of like along lines of Bigfoot. People talk about sightings of this very skeletal, deer like creature with no lips and like skull for a head and dripping blood, and it's been turned into this depiction of a monster sort of thing.

Oh really, Like there's actually people that say they've spotted it.

I mean it's there's no one with proof or anything like that. It's more of a in the last couple decades tales and stories and probably Internet getting a hold of it, you know.

Interesting. Well, yeah, and they're describing as like a terrible beast.

Really yeah they are. Well, if the Windygo does exist, it does sound like it. Regardless of the new depictions, it does sound like a terrible, terrible being.

So that's true, very true. Yeah, that's interesting.

Wow, that was a different one to research.

Yeah, that was interesting. That was very interesting. Well done.

Thank you. I'm glad you enjoyed it, and I'm glad I got a couple of spine crawls out of you.

I don't think I've taken a sip of my tea since there you go.

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