Summer camp has been a staple of children's summer holidays for generations, but it has also become something that has cultural ties to horror movies as well. Think Friday the Thirteenth with Jason Vorhees slaughtering teens at Camp Crystal Lake and campfire ghost stories told around the dim glow of the flames as darkness looms over your shoulders. For most,
camp is fun and these are simply just stories. But in today's case, their experience at camp would soon turn into a nightmare that seems to fit right into place with all these slasher films of the nineteen seventies. This is the story of the Oklahoma Girl Scout murders.
My name's Ben, I'm uncle, and you're listening to Wicked and Grim True crime podcast.
Audience listener discretion. We're on vacation. We are we are Sorry. Did I interrupt you?
I was about to open my beverage for once in my life.
You know, I didn't say a word. Go back to Silence and Nichol's going to bring us in. Okay, here we go. I didn't get to be at Silence before you opened it.
Well you rarely do.
Wow, Holy just throw in the shade right out the gate.
Hey, oh my gosh. So yeah, we are on holidays. We're actually in Florida, So if the audio sounds a little bit weird, that's why.
Yeah. Well, I mean, like even like listening to my MICD because I tell to my mic like moving it on the table. It's there's gonna be a lot of noise pollution in this episode, most likely because hey, it's not our usual mics, not our usual recording, not our usual setup.
So yeah, well and yeah, there's just noise that we can't really control, I guess at the moment exactly.
We also wanted to announce that next week we will be not producing any episodes. We are making sure that we're getting everything out this week for regular scheduled ones, but we will be skipping and taking a bit more vacation.
For next week Tuesday and Friday.
The Tuesday and Friday, so the following days of course we will be but just that one week, the Tuesday and Friday, we won't be producing anything. Okay, so heads up on that. We will be coming back the following Tuesday. There we go, And I thought, since we are taking a week vacation away from the podcast. We're going to end it on a really good one with the Oklahoma Girl Scout murders.
You're just getting right into it. Hey, you're not going to talk to them about what we're doing tonight.
Oh we can. I'm just saying, I just thought it would be great to just be like, hey, we've got a like massive case before the week break. You know what I mean?
Ben's making me do something against my will.
What is it that I'm making you do?
I don't even know what it's called, but it's freaking terrifying and I'm so nervous and it's going to be something.
I need to look up the exact name of it now.
It's Universal Studios Halloween Horror Nights.
Yeah, the Halloween horrn Nites. So we're going to Universal Studios tonight. We're actually, after we record this upload it for today, we're gonna be leaving in like an hour after that to go to Universal Studios Horror Nite. So yeah, it's gonna be great.
And I'm slightly pissed because yesterday when we were at Universal, I would have made you do two rides that I wanted to do just in spite of this.
In spite well, one of the rides I was totally fine to do. It was just an eighty minute wait okay.
Yeah, which I know I would have probably died standing there for eighty minutes, to be honest.
And the other one, I mean, I probably would have done it, but I am also a scaredy cat when it comes to I probably would have, and.
I'm a scary cat when it comes to just like I don't know, fake fear. I guess fake fear is that one? It would be horor yeah, Like I don't know. I don't really watch those kind of movies because they just scare the shit out of me. But I could easily just sit there, like on our TV. All we've been have on right now is Dateline. I just sit there and't actually listen about how evil things are and it doesn't really bother well.
And the thing with these is like I'm not a huge fan of like getting jump scared or anything like that either, I'm not, But I am a huge fan of watching horror movies or going to haunted houses and looking at props, prosthetics people put on the how well the things are done, how well the actors portray their characters. Right, I go into these knowing it's one hundred percent fake, so I like to see where I can scale it and be like, oh, that costume is totally like a
seven out of ten. This one's a two out of ten. That's not even scary at all, Like you're a joke, but your effort into it is a ten out of ten. So I fucking love you like that sort of stuff, you know, Yeah, I'm going to.
Just be hiding behind you. I think the what was it, the chainsaw punks?
Yeah, the chainsaw punks.
I'm not gonna like that. I don't like being chased or any in any way of that.
So don't run and they won't chase you. Oh my gosh.
Okay, it's gonna be good. It's gonna be fine. We're gonna be fine.
Well, we'll do good. It's gonna be awesome. If you guys have gone to Universal Studios Halloween horror nights, let us know, we're curious. We'll be posting on social media some of our stuff for sure.
Yeah, and then okay, so back to this case, like it, this case is just gut wrenching.
It is. How much do you know of this case?
A fair amount. I've probably forgotten some things, but I definitely have listened to like a few podcasts on this one.
Well you have okay, Yeah, I have interesting. I didn't know that.
Well, this is a pretty big one. It's terrible.
Yeah, it's a pretty big case for sure. So you ready for it?
Yes, let's do her.
Okay. So we're going back into June of nineteen seventy seven, and we're gonna be looking at a girl of sorry, a group of Girls Scout from Oklahoma, and they're making their way to the exciting Camp Scott. And for those who are fans of the Office, wrong Scott, we are talking about a different Scott. Sorry, just had to make that joke. This is Camp Scott, which is a beloved summer retreat nestled near Locust Grove, just northeast of Tulsa
in Oklahoma, Okay. For nearly five decades, the camp has been a staple of the Girl Scouts annual traditions, offering a two week escape into nature. It was a stream place spread across more than four hundred acres of trees and forests that also included a flowing creek through the beautiful landscape where the girls could swim, canoe, It made it feel like a secluded paradise just for these campers in their adventure outdoors.
Two weeks is quite a long time, though, two weeks is I know.
I did some camp retreats as a kid, and I only ever did a week long and as a kid, I mean that feels like an eternity. Well, yeah, two weeks alone would be like whoa.
I don't think they ever really did overnight camps. I was like a homebody through and through.
I just look at it like for kids, like that's an eternity. For parents, it's like it's not nearly long enough, you know, a right, how about all summer lead? But this year, the anticipation of the camping trip was it was quite palpable for pretty much everyone, though there were a few exceptions. There's one in particular it didn't exactly share the excitement, and that was ten year old Doris Milner. Now, Doris was having second thoughts as the departure date grew near.
Now her two best friends would not be joining her on this trip. Initially they were going to, but unfortunately they're not, and it was leaving her worried that she might feel a bit out of place in homesick going alone fair enough, Yeah, the idea of spending two weeks away from home overwhelmed her, especially without the familiar faces
of you know, her best friends by her side. So, sensing her daughter's anxiety, Doris's mother reassured her that, you know what, you can come home early if you need, just go try it, and if you don't like it, you know what, can always change your mind and call me.
Yeah, like I'm only a phone call away, exactly.
She was, probably just like, I already stalked up on wine. I need to drink that shit, like, you know, give me a Lisa night, right. But meanwhile, Michelle Hoffman, who was a seasoned camper at this retreat, had dreams of
becoming a camp counselor this year. She was pretty excited with her new role and having spent countless summers at Campscott, she had fond memories of her own first trip when she was just nine years old, and now she was ready to help guide the younger girls through their first experience, you know, offering them that sense of like belonging at a place. And she's getting to be that guide that she looked up to in the very beginning.
Well, Yeah, that's perfect because she, you know, probably remembers how it felt and right. Yeah.
So it was on June twelfth, nineteen seventy seven, that Michelle arrived at the Girl Scout's headquarters in Tulsa, ready to head up the camp. She immediately noticed Doris standing off to the side of the group of girls, looking nervous and out of place among all the excitement that was going on. Right away, she kind of sensed her onunease, and Michelle approached Doris right away with a warm smile and offered her a seat next to her on the bus, hoping to kind of ease her bit of worries. Right.
Doris hesitated, but agreed and was grateful at the gesture. Right, so, She's like, yeah, I'll sit next to you.
I love that.
So as the bus pulled out of the station with the girls loaded on board, the chatter filled the air, and slowly Doris began to relax, even joining in as the other Girl Scouts saying cheerful camp songs along the way heading to Camp Scott. For a brief moment, the anxiety and homesickness seemed to fade. It was the start of what was meant to be a joyful and memorable summer adventure. The layout of Camp Scott consisted of several campsites, or units as they called them, each named after an
individual Native American nation. Every unit was set up with a tent for the camp So there was the camp counselors, and then there was up to ten additional tents for the campers. These tents were slightly more substantial for the counselors than the other ones, because you know, you got to fit adults in there as opposed to kids. But even still, all these tents were a little bit more than your typical camping tents. They offered quite a bit
more as far as shelter from the elements. It's not something that you buy from Walmart Go camping, and it's just flimsy's little thing. Right. This was on a wooden platform and enclosed with canvas walls. So these are canvas tents that they're actually sleeping in.
Kind of like glamping. They were glamping.
They were probably glamping to a certain degree, but this is also the seventies. Yeah, yeah, Now, the tents would accommodate up to four campers each on this wooden platform, and there was wooden cots that were serving as bets. The walls of the tent could be unzipped and rolled up to provide easy access inside or you know, easy ventilation even if you need it right. Each girl scout
had been assigned to a tent. Doris, we're sharing a tent in Tent number eight with two other girls, nine year old Michelle Goose and eight year old Lorie Farmer. As the first night of the camp began, the girls gathered in their tent while the storm began to roll in. The rain intensified with thunder echoing through the distance, but Doris, Michelle, and Laurie were settling in comfortably. After the day of activity.
That's a shit time for a storm, hey, the first night when everyone's a little bit anxious already.
Definitely that it's just going.
To roll in.
I don't think the storm was like anything wild by anything, but I do think there was some rain, a little bit of thunder in the distance kind of you know, but it definitely sets an atmosphere for sure, and puts
you a bit more uneasy. Now. The tents were arranged in a bit of a semicircle situation, so the counselors can keep an eye on each of the girl's tents, but Tent number eight, the one that Doris was in, was the farthest from the councilor's quarters and was kind of tucked behind the showerhouse, making it more isolated from the other ones. Now, before the campers turned in for the night, several counselors made their rounds to check in
the girls, as per usual. Among them was Michelle, as we talked about earlier, the same counselor who had comforted Doris on the bus ride to camp. She was concerned for Michelle. She wanted to check in on her and make sure everything was good, so she ensured that she made her way over to Tent number eight and peeked inside to check. She found all three girls were already
fast asleep, exhausted from the days excitement okay yeah. Relieved that Dora seemed to have settled in made some new friends along the way, Michelle left the tent and returned to her own. This night, though starting out perfectly, was about to be far from what anyone had expected. Because none of the campers or counselors knew the strange occurrences that had been happening at Camp Scott in the months leading up to that night.
Oh man, okay, you've already surprised me with two things.
Oh and what's that?
Well, I didn't realize this happened in the seventies for some reason. I thought it was more recent.
Okay.
And then I didn't also realize that shit went down on the first night. But maybe it doesn't. I don't know, but uh, I thought, yeah, okay, I'm forgetting a little bits here.
Well, it does go down on the first.
Night, really, yes, okay.
So in the weeks leading up to this faithful night, several councilors at Camp Scott had reported hearing strange noises coming from the dense wood surrounding the camp. These weren't the usual sounds of wildlife, you know, an owl hooting, or you know the clear signs of a fox running through the bush, maybe even a bear cracking sticks. I don't know. These are different sounds of what you could typically expect. These ones just seemed off, unfamiliar and unsettling.
One male counselor even discovered his tents slashed open by what appeared to be a sharp object. There were also frequent complaints of campers and food and personal belongings disappearing from their tents. Though these incidents were initially brushed off as a work of wild animals or natural honease of being in a remote setting, you know, all those sort of things, there was a bit more that was going on,
and even more settling. Some staff members had even spotted a strange man lingering around the campgrounds in the weeks leading up to this specific event.
Okay, that's a little bit more than just a bit unsettling, well, very unsettling.
It could be, and it also couldn't be. What if it's just an individual who's hiking through the area.
Yeah, like maybe he just moved to the area, I guess or something and like exploring on his own exactly.
It's not like there's really a camp going on at the moment. In many of these cases, it's counselor trainings and stuff, you know. Events. This man's behavior didn't seem alarming, he was polite in any encounters, He didn't cause any trouble,
so none of the sightings were really reported. Okay, just four days before the Girl Scout session began, Camp Scott director Richard Day did have an encounter with him while out walking about four miles from the camp, he met a tall man who asked him where he could find a nearby creek to fill up a bucket of water. Richard gave him directions, and though the interaction was brief, that was about that.
M okay, that seems I ass relative late normal.
Harmless, right, yeah yeah so. Yet one incident did stand out from the rest and shook the camp to its core. During a training weekend for cadets earlier that spring, one of the older campers returned to their tent to find that someone had drummaged through their belongings and stole all their food. In place of the missing items, a note
had been left inside an empty box of donuts. The note was written on pages torn from a small notebook, and on the first three pages the word kill had been scrawled repeatedly.
Oh jeez.
The final page carried an even more disturbing message, we are on a mission to kill three girls in one tent.
Oh dang. I thought it was going to be like a little note that said like, sorry, we're really hungry, thanks for your food or something, but not so much.
Definitely not now. One of the campers present during that weekend was deeply disturbed by this note and quickly brought the brought it to the attention of the camp director. Despite the frightening tone of this message and the questionable intent behind it, the incident was ultimately dismissed as a cruel prank.
And I mean, that is hard. It probably should be reported. But also it's like, I mean, how much can you take it at face value? Right?
Exactly? And there was a couple different reports that I read of some campers taking responsibility for writing these notes. Oh, I'm unsure on the accuracy of those accounts, but there are some accounts out there of talking about.
That, okay.
So regardless of it, if someone did take accountability or not, it was dismissed as a prank either way. Now, let's assume it's a prank, okay, it seemed like a harmless yet distasteful joke if it is a camper just writing that, right. But in Hindi it's more of an ominous warning, whether or not it's an intentional one or not. So on the night in question, June twelfth, nineteen seventy seven, the
campers at Campscott were restless. The girl Scouts were often waking up to unsettling noises drifting through the woods that surrounded their campsite. At around one thirty am, one of the camp counselors, Carla will Hit, was startled awake by a loud, groaning sound nearby. It wasn't the first time
Carla felt uneasy about strange sounds around this camp. In fact, just a few weeks earlier, she was staying at the staff house and she had been jolted awake by a noise outside the front door, and when she had gotten up to investigate, she found nothing unusual and assumed it was another staff member moving about.
Right, And honestly, I was just going to say too, Like for the girls, the campers the first night, they probably would be waking up often and most likely right because it's the first night there and they're not used to the sound is exactly.
It's an unfamiliar area, different sound.
Not at home.
You're not at home, you're not with your parents, not with your friends. It's completely new. You don't know what to expect. Lots is going to happen, right, But in Carla's case, before she could relax after this incident, the camp dog Sally had started growling and barking outside as well, which was not normal since Sally was known to be a very gentle and well trained dog, only reacting in such ways to strangers and wild animals.
Okay, oh, I love that there was a camp tool. I know Sally.
Sally would have been my best friend. Yes yet now this night, however, Sally did eventually quiet down, and Carla managed to go to bed and drift back to sleep. On this night, as she heard the groaning sound at one thirty am, Carla got up to check things out. She stepped outside, scanning the area and with a flashlight in hand, but everything seemed to be calm and nothing was indicating any source of noise or being out of place.
Assuming it might just be a wild animal prowling through the woods, she eventually returned to her tent, trying to shake off the eerie feeling. Thirty minutes later, a camper stirred to the sound someone unzipping a tent flap that
unzipping was in their tent yep. The child saw a figure standing outside waving a flashlight around, and the camper didn't feel alarmed though, because it was most likely just a camp counselor exactly and the figure moved away without saying another word, and that child also drifted back to sleep.
Oh no, oh, this is just okay. It makes sense actually to do this on the first night because people aren't aren't you like, the kids aren't used to it. Maybe that that's what the counselors do kind of thing.
Right, like, oh well, I mean, in all honesty, that already happened. Michelle already unzipped and peeked in number eight looking for Doris.
Right, yeah, and make sure that she was all right.
I'm sure counselors are doing that. Maybe that was just a counselor. We don't know.
So.
At around three am, another girl was awakened by an unmistakable sound of screaming. The screams were distant, coming from the direction of the tents on the edge of the campsite, near tent number eight, where Doris was staying. The camper, too frightened to leave her own tent, listened for a moment before the sound faded off into the night. A third camper also heard a girl's voice crying out in distress, repeatedly apparently calling mama, mama, mama.
Oh no, no, no no.
The cries were apparently very desperate, but in the confusion of the night, the girls were unsure of what was happening, especially like you said, this is the first night.
Well, yeah, I guess, oh, I mean that kind of noises, but maybe they thought they were dreaming or something.
Well that's the thing. A lot of the campers who were hearing this, I mean, they were shook whatever, right, but they're just unsure of a what to do, and be convinced themself that someone was probably just having a nightmare or homesick, you know, or scared, and like they want to go home. It's the first night. I'm sure that happens quite a.
Bit, right, they are really young.
Yep. So after a few moments, these sounds kind of ceased and the campers were able to go back and sleep in the silence of the night, unaware of the horrors that just unfolded.
Oh man, this case.
Fall morning on June thirteenth, nineteen seventy seven, things began quietly for counselor Carla Whittle vital I can't I'm not sure how you say her name, but she was waking up around six am, and she made her way to the shower block, ready to start a typical day Camp Scott, but as she neared the showers, something was immediately off. A sleeping bag was laying on the ground, far from where it should be in its tent, and on top of that sleeping bag was a small figure draped across it,
still groggy. Carla was confused and approached, and the reality of what she was seeing quickly set in. There was a young girling on top of the sleeping bag, motionless, bloodied and severely beaten. Carla stumbled upon the lifeless body of ten year old Doris Milner oyl. Yeah, now she was the victim of a horrifying, brutal crime.
I just have to say, earlier I was like, yeah, like with her mom, just like give her one night or whatever. But now I'm like eating those words, because one night, Like, yeah, hindsight's twenty twenty, right, Yeah, well exactly. None of these parents would ever have thought sending this their kids to this camp would be a bad thing whatsoever.
Definitely not so. In a state of shock, Carla rushed off to find help. She located the camp nurse and one of the directors, urgently insisting that they follow her back to the scene. Now At first, the nurse assumed that it might just be, you know, just an injury, perhaps a fall, and that Carla was overreacting. But when she reached Doris's body, it was immediately clear that something was far, something far worse was occurring.
It wasn't an old reaction.
Yeah, it wasn't just a simple little accident. Chaos quickly spread through the camp as the staff began searching the grounds for some sort of answers, and it wasn't long before they uncovered another terrifying scene. Tent number eight, where Doris had been staying, was empty, with blood splattered and smeared all across the inside.
Oh Man.
As for the two other girls who shared the tent with her, nine year old Michelle Goose eight year old Lorie Farmer, they were both missing, along with their sleeping bags. Their bodies would soon be found a short while after after searching the nearby trails. Both girls had been beaten
to death and stuffed inside their sleeping bags. The camp descended into absolute confusion and fear, and the camp director made the swift decision to shut everything down, organizing an immediate evacuation to get the children back on the buses. And away from the unfolding horror. Staff members did their best to prevent the young campers from getting too close to the area where the bodies had been found, trying to shield them from the reality of what really happened that night.
Well, yeah, I mean that's traumatizing. But did you say Doris, Was she deceased?
Yes? Okay, no, Well, in all honesty too, this is something I wasn't going to include in this. But there was supposed to be a fourth girl that stayed in the tent with them, but she didn't end up going to camp that week.
Okay, I remember something about that.
Yeah, And there are interviews with her and stuff like that regarding that. But yeah. Now, by the end of the day, Camp Scott had been closed, its gates shut for good. What was once a cherished spot for generations of Girl Scouts was now a spot with a dark history and would never reopen. During the autopsies of the three young victims, the medical examiner made a chilling discovery that all of them were sexually assaulted before they were killed.
While all three girls had endured several sorry severe beatings during the attack, the cause of death varied.
That's just disgusting.
Laurie Farmer and nine year old Michelle Goose both died as a result of blunt force trauma. However, ten year old Doris, the oldest of the group, had been strangled, and the cause of her death was determined to be exphyxiation. Forensic evidence gathered from inside their tent revealed that the
entire attack occurred within the canvas walls. The assailant had quietly unzipped the tent flaps, entered while the girls slept, and inside, the brutal assault took place, leaving the tent soaked in blood from the horrific bludgeoning and violence that the girls endured. Once the assault was over, the killer moved the girls and their girls' bodies and their sleeping bags from the tent, dumping them in the locations where they would eventually be found.
You know, honestly, I'm just thinking here, if because some of the girls had heard noises, right and like mommy, mommy kind of thing. Yeah, Like even if they got out or whatever and went about doing something like it, it would have been too late, it seems right, because this person had a plan.
It's hard to say, it really is. Who knows It's one of those things where there's too many questions to answer any of it.
Yeah, but I feel like they had a lot of time and like, I mean, all their actions were like already they knew what they were doing kind of thing.
I'm pretty sure they definitely did. This is something that was most likely premeditated. So with all the blood inside the tent, it was virtually impossible for the perpetrator to avoid touching any sort of surfaces and leaving behind evidence. Smudges and blood patterns suggested the attacker had attempted to clean up, but in the darkness of night, lit only by a flashlight, it was never going to be an
achievable feat to erase all the traces. Right the morning after the murders, investigators removed the wooden floor from Tent number eight and airlifted it to a crime lab for analysis. As they examined the bloodstains, they discovered a nearly perfect bloody footprint left behind by someone wearing a size nine and a half men's shoe. One of the most talian pieces of evidence was a red flashlight that the killer
had used to navigate through the campsite. The flashlight was found on top of one of the girl's bodies, but despite the fact that a fingerprint had been left on the lens, it was too smudge to be used for any sort of identification.
Hey here, I was like, gosh, on a flash eat, sure that would be left behind.
Nope, which unfortunately is a very common theme in this case. Because of how wet everything was. Most of the prints found were unusable because of smudges and pooling of blood and all that sort of thing.
It's shocking that this person wasn't wearing a glove.
But we are in the seventies too, right, right.
They didn't, They weren't really aware they maybe needed.
To, maybe not as much because I mean a lot of forensics were in its primitive states back then, right.
So yeah, but still it's just like nasty too what he was doing, and you would just think, I guess that's just my germa for coming out, and he wouldn't be like that, right Maybe not now.
Additionally, investigators noted that the flashlight batteries had been padded with newspaper, an indication that the this was not a spur of the moment crime, because the attacker planned ahead, taking steps to ensure that stuffing the newspaper in this battery back wouldn't allow for the batteries to be rattling and make any noise to give away his movements as he stalked to the campsite.
That makes sense.
There were also reports that I read of paper being taped across the lens. The flashlight wasn't as strong, making it a little easier to be undetectable in the night while he can still see and move.
You know, Oh my gosh, this guy.
Yeah. As investigators expanded their search across the sprawling four hundred acres of the camp, more physical evidence would emerge. Among items discovered, where a length of rope and duct tape likely used to buying the girls during the attack. Investigators also stumbled upon an abandoned pair of women's glasses, a strange and unexplained fine that raised additional questions but
potentially could serve as answers later on. Their search eventually led them to a small cave near the campsite, only a few miles away, and it became clear that someone had been living there for an extended period of time. Inside the cave, they found crumpled newspaper that remarkably was a match to the same newspaper that had used to wrap the batteries inside the flashlight that was found at
the crime scene. The evidence suggested that whoever had murdered all three girls had been hiding out in the cave, methodically planning this crime for some time. The scene inside the cave indicated that the killer also knew the police would eventually uncover the hideout, because scrawled across the cave wall was a chilling message that read quote, the killer was here. Bye bye fools.
Oh my gosh, this guy's a piece of work.
Yeah. Below the taunting message were the numbers seventy seven dash six dash seventeen, written in a format commonly used by prisoners to indicate dates. So that would be nineteen nineth sorry, nineteen seventy seven, the sixth month, seventeenth day.
Okay, so they were probably thinking that he was already a criminal.
Potentially, yes, right, yeah, But I.
Mean other people could be using that date without necessarily meaning they've been in prison exactly.
It's just one of those things that's really commonly used by prison inmates. Okay, So they had some evidence, but no indication of who they were looking for specifically, since they were lacking eyewitnesses, they like someone who could actually identify a perpetrator. The police were left pouring over lists of local individuals with criminal records, specifically in men, because hey, you know, this is a little bit more like there's
sexual assault going on. The men's size point nine, so it's easy to assume it was a male in this instant except for.
Those were the female glasses.
Except for the female glasses, you're correct, Yeah, But desperately searching for any possible connection for the murders, they were just doing what they can to find any sort of individual within these criminal records. Among the name that stood out, the investigators found a man by an individual named Jean Leroy Hart, a thirty three year old prisoner escapee with a violent criminal history. Now, Gene had previously been convicted
of kidnapping and raping two pregnant women. Despite the verity of this offense, he was paroled early, only to be reincarcerated after being caught for burglary in nineteen thirty three, ge managed to escape from prison, and by nineteen seventy seven he had been on the run for four years. And now Gene became the prime suspect in this case.
Okay, did you say sorry? He escaped nineteen seventy three.
Yes, in nineteen seventy three, he was at first.
That he said thirty three, And now I was just like, where are we here?
Okay, if I said thirty three, my apologies.
Could have been me miss hearing.
Nineteen seventy three, he escaped, and it's now nineteen seventy seven, so it's been four years and they still don't know where he is.
Okay, that's a long time to get away with it.
Hey, it is now. It wasn't just assuming that he was the killer, though, just looking through a list and being like, this guy could be it. It wasn't that because there was a critical piece of evidence that was pointing towards Gene, because there was the discovery of two photographs in the cave where the killer had clearly been
hiding out right. Initially, law enforcement mistakenly reported that the photos had been found near the victim of the bodies, but later Claire that it was actually in the cave where these photos were found, away from the crime scene. But forensic analysis revealed that these photographs had been developed at the Granite Reformatory Photo Lab, the same place where
Jane had worked during his time in prison. Really, so Gene is directly linked not to these photos, but to the lab where they were developed.
Huh that you think that would actually lower like the pool of potential suspects, say.
It definitely could.
Huh.
Okay, So this is only circumstantial evidence, but it is some evidence. So with the announcement of Gene as their prime suspect, it it sparked significant controversy. Much of the evidence linking him to the murders, as I already mentioned, was circumstantial, which including the photos, and many within the Cherokee Nation, which Gene was a member, believe the investigation
faced racial profiling. They felt that local law enforcement had unfairly focused on him because of his heritage rather solely on evidence. They're only chasing him right now because of circumstantial evidence, and they're assuming him and it is racial profiling. That hey, that totally makes sense. You got some points there. But despite the public's backlash, though, authorities remained confident that their suspect was Gene and launched a massive manhunt to
capture him. I mean, in all honesty, whether he's a suspect or not, he's still an escaped convict and kind of needs to return behind bars, just saying that.
That's very true. I also think though sometimes in these cases they get like an idea in their their head, right, I mean, but with this kind of evidence that they're finding, like the photos and stuff, and then they just run with it and kind of have their blinders onto that, like you do hear that happening?
Oh, one hundred percent. So it is definitely a possibility now. On June twenty fourth, nineteen seventy seven, hundreds of volunteers assisted in combing through a four mile area near the camp. The search, however, proved fruitless, and just two days after the search was called off for months, Gene was nowhere
to be found, frustrating investigators and the community alike. On April sixth, nineteen seventy eight, almost a year after the murders, a promising tip came into the Oklahoma Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation. The investigators had received numerous leads that led nowhere. They followed up on this one, which directed them to a remote location in Crookston Hills, over forty miles or
sixty five kilometers from Camp Scott. At four fifteen pm, eight law enforcement agents stormed the property of this isolated area, inside the home of a local Cherokee medicine man, they finally found their elusive suspect, Jean Leroy Hart, and he was immediately taken into custody. The sheriff leading the investigation was unwavering in his belief, publicly declaring that he was quote one thousand percent certain that Jean le Roy Hart was the killer.
Wo wow, very strongly, very strongly. Yeah.
One striking detail stood out to all eight of the officers who arrested Jeane that day. He was wearing a distinctive pair of women's glasses.
Oh shit.
This was significant because in his previous convictions for sexual assault, during which he had reported sorry, had been reported by both victims to have removed their eyeglasses and tried them on.
Huh.
Also accompanying the fact of abandoned pair of women's glasses near camps score right.
What size or shoes? Nine and a half?
We'll get to that, okay. As the trial approached, public interest in the case reignited across Oklahoma. Because it has been basically a year by now, the media, which had once quieted down after its initial frenzy, now swarmed back to cover the proceedings. The case drew sharp divisions among the public. Some convinced that Jane was guilty, and others believed that he was a victim of racial profiling, with police targeting him because he is a member of the
Cherokee Nation. Both sides waited with baitless breath to see the outcome of the trial. In nineteen seventy nine, twenty months after the murders, the trial began. Jean Leroy Hart was represented by Garvin A. Isaacs, and Jean wasted no time in asserting his innocence. In fact, his first words to his lawyer were quote, I want you to know one thing. I didn't kill those girls, and his lawyer
believed him. The prosecution's case against Jene hinged heavily on physical evidence, and they pointed to items found in the cave near the camp, including the photograph like Jean's previous work in the photo labs, the men's shoeprint which was discovered on the scene, and hair and semen samples from the crime scene. However, all of this evidence was in
fact circumstantial. In nineteen seventy five, forensics DNA had not yet advanced to the point where analysis was available, so no conclusive evidence could definitively place him at the scene of the crime. May have had sein and hair and all this stuff, but they could not link.
It to him, right, But you think at this point though, they could, you know, if they were to relook at everything. But I don't know.
We'll get to that too. Okay, But with the hair samples, for example, I could only indicate at the time, but they were similar to genes. And the shoe print at the found at the tent was not an exact match for his shoe size.
Oh okay, that's that's interesting. But they're also you know, it could be like two people, it's not necessarily just only one person.
We'll get to that. So now, in modern time, DNA testing could likely approved the definitive answer, whether it was implicating or exonerating gene. But it could potentially do that. But unfortunately back then we are in the seventies, almost encroaching in the eighties at this point, but it's still
DNA is in its infancy, if at all. So the prosecution was simply unable to present any eyewitnessing account, fingerprints, or anything that directly tied gene hard to the scene of the crime, which only weakened their case trying to convict him. Right, defense attorney Garvin Isaac skillfully dismantled the entire prosecution's argument. He pointed out the men's shoeprint found the scene was not the same size as jeans, and he also argued that the hair samples could not definitively
link his client. As I mentioned, they could only say that he was It was a relative close match. That's all they could do. And as far as the photographs, though incriminating, they are not enough to convict someone for such a highness act because hey, there's other people who worked there too.
Well, yeah, exactly like you would have to you know, without a doubt, know it was no one else that had ties to that as well.
Right And even still, what if he developed photos for another person, what if someone paid for what if someone stole his photos? What if he threw him in the garbage and someone grabbed like who, there's an end list of possibilities.
Yeah, it definitely doesn't make it just like you know, it's him.
Does not. So without any more concrete evidence, such as an eyewitness test, a pony or a fingerprint. The prosecution struggled to convince the jury the reliant. They relied on circumstantial evidence. Plainly, that's it, and it left room for
reasonable doubt. The defense sought to cast out in his involvement in the camp as best as they could, and what they did is they pointed to another possible suspect, a local convict rapist by the name of William Stevens who is a girl sorry, a girl scout who was actually seen wandering the camp on the night of the murders,
testified that a man resembled William Stevens. She recounted when the girls heard noises from outside their tent, one of them lifted the tent flap and shone a flashlight outside, and in doing so, they shone a flashlight directly in a man's face. He briefly glanced at them before walking away. Though she admitted she hadn't seen the man's face clearly, the description suggested he might have been the mysterious figure spotted. Really so, she's not sure, but it could be Yea Now.
Another crucial witness was Joyce Pain, a friend of William. She testified that he had borrowed her flashlight shortly before the murders for a fishing trip, but he never returned it. And when Joyce was shown the photo of the red flashlight discovered laying on one of the victim's bodies, she immediately recognized it and stating that flashlight is my flashlight.
The one she worled.
Yep, she said, it was given to me by my son.
Huh, but I mean there could be other flashlights that look exactly the same.
Exactly, so again circumstantial.
Yes.
Now, her son, Larry Paine, corroborated her story, adding that he had actually even seen William shortly after the murders took place, and he was seen with clarmarks on his forearm and neck. He also reportedly had boots covered in what looked like could be blood, and he asked Larry to use his bathroom to clean up.
Oh gosh.
However, William's alibi seemed to hold up. His employer testified that he had been working in Florida at the time of the murders. He simply could not have been there.
Huh.
Eventually, it okay.
Sometimes people give alibis, though, right because they're like afraid for their own life. For there's reasons that you can get alibi from other people.
But this is this is also an employer, I know, but I'm sure there's actually records paced up right.
You could prove it.
Yeah, But also in the seventies a lot of people work for cash too, so who knows.
Now.
Eventually, Larry Payne, the daughter of or sorry, the son of the woman who claimed that was a flashlight, he actually recanted his testimony and last law enforcement actually ultimately cleared Williams after questionings. Okay, but the defense, however, maintained that the police had rushed, rushed to find the man. They said, there's another possibility of an individual. They took his name off the list far too soon, and they were simply fixated on pinning the crime on gene instead,
regardless of any other potential leads. As a result, on the trial, on March twentieth, nineteen seventy nine, Jean Leroy Hart was officially acquitted of the Camp Scott murders. The jury unanimously decided that the prosecution's case was too weak to prove Jane's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Geene Hart, despite being acquitted, would still return to prison as he had been convicted for multiple serious crimes before the murders even ever took place, which.
Was not supposed to be out exactly.
It included kidnapping, rape, and burglary and now also escaping from prison, and he still had three hundred and five years left on his sentence.
Yeah, so you think too, I don't know someone that has that much time, Like, I don't know. I almost I almost feel like they would have. They at one point could admit to this, you know, because.
Lose that's but what do you mean at one point?
Well, even say they're in prison for like ten fifteen years or whatever, like they're on their deathbed or something like. I could see him admitting to it at some point.
That could be a case, except after his return to prison. Not long after, Jeane was jogging in prison and he suddenly collapsed and died at just thirty five years old and suffered a heart attack.
Oh okay, well there you go.
So he's probably not going to come forward and say anything else.
Probably not.
I would be really surprised.
Holy that's karma right there in a way.
Well, if it was him, do you believe it was him?
Well, he was still a piece of shit though.
Oh he was so well for exactly one thing alone. Women.
Yeah, So like that's karma.
Yeah.
I don't super believe in karma all the time, but that that's karma right there.
That speaks volumes.
I don't know. I don't know. I'm gonna I was. My gut is hard of leaning towards no, but it's not. I'm not certain. Okay, you don't think it is.
Hey, we'll get to that.
Holy shit, I'm going to just sit here and say fuck all for the rest of this podcast. We'll get to that. We'll get to that. I'm gonna slap you.
I do believe it was him, do you.
I do, really, I do.
And we will talk about why shortly. We'll get to that because I do have it written here soon on on what that's all about. Like we're literally getting into it. Okay, so let me follow the script.
If that's cool, that's very cool. Yeah.
So, to this day, the Camp Scott murders remained one of the most haunting and cold cases in Oklahoma's history. The mystery of who killed these three girl scouts during this camping trip, it's simply that a mystery. There's no conclusive answers that have ever been provided. However, a decade after the trial, the case received renewed attention with the introduction of new forensic technologies, particularly DNA testing. As I mentioned, we would get to that, and here we.
Are because I'm like, gosh, they have to keep that and at some point look at it again. They just have to.
Well. In nineteen eighty nine, forensic experts tested the DNA found in semen samples from the bodies of the three victims. Out of five samples tested, three matched gen leroy Hart's DNA profile three Three out of five two samples yielded
inconclusive results. Now, holy shit, Now this comes with a caveat. Statistically, one in around seven seven hundred DNA samples from Indigenous Americans could produce a similar result, meaning that while Gene was a strong suspect, the DNA events was not technically conclusive enough to prove his guilt or innocence.
Huh okay. But still still that is definitely something there.
That is that is strong evidence.
That's not conclusive, but it's still something. It's still strong.
Now. In the late twenty tens, Mike Reid, the newly appointed sheriff of Mays County, took a personal interest in this cold case. See Sheriff Reids had grown up in the same area as the victims and was around the same age when the murders took place. Like many in the community, the case had haunted him throughout his life. Absolutely, Now he was in a position of authority that.
He could do something about.
Exactly, he felt compelled to take a fresh look at this case and try and do something about it.
I kind of love him. I love this.
In twenty eighteen, Sheriff Reid brought up the case to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, also known as the NCMEC, a leading nonprofit dedicated debt to protecting children and solving their cold cases. Right So, the NCMEC assembled a cold case board to assess the evidence. The board consisted of twenty three top professionals, including fb the eeprofilers, behavioral sorry analysts, and experienced homicide detectives. We're talking like
the best of the best. They represented some of the most skilled in the whole criminal investigation world and were now tasked with reexamining every aspect of this case from top to bottom. The board meticulously reviewed all the available evidence, the physical clues, the autopsy reports, the DNA findings, the timeline, every detail uncovered about gene Le roy Hart, you name it. Everything.
They weighed the circumstantial evidence, the crime scene forensics, and after their exhaustive review, the twenty three board members reached a unanimous conclusion. They were all convinced, beyond a doubt that Jean Lee roy Hart was the perpetrator of the crime.
Holy shit. Okay, well, frick you set me up when you're like, do you think it was him? A like, no, I don't think so. Well, I didn't have all the freaking facts.
Yeah, you're right. That's why I want what your thought was before we get into that, because you do have the facts. It's just them getting into the review of those facts. I have offered you nothing else as far as new evidence, only that the team reviewed it and their thoughts. Well, I think the DNA thing was new, but it's still not conclusive, right, Yes, So while this consensus offered a measure of closure to some, it wasn't
the conclusive legal evidence thing. It was nothing that definitively, definitively closed the case.
It's their opinion, But still that's a lot like that, says something when it's all of them, you know, unanimously think this.
Yes. So, with this conclusion that he was the prime suspect in this murders, they recommended a further DNA analysis to solidify the case. However, the advanced testing came with a steep priced. Heag it was more than thirty thousand dollars. Neither the families of the victims nor this is a not for profit organizations.
Well that's some bullshit. They should just like someone just do this.
Well that's the thing. No one has the money for it. The families don't have the money for it. The not for profit doesn't have the money for it. The Mays County Sheriff office didn't have the money for it.
I know. I'm just saying, like the lab just like do it for free.
Well that's the thing. Later, a funding campaign began and successfully raised the necessary funds to move forward with this testing. So it did occur. Someone started a campaign and it was funded. So while the results of these tests have never fully been disclosed to public, in twenty twenty two, investigators confirmed that since twenty nineteen they had access to DNA evidence that quote strongly suggested Jean Leroy Heart's involvement in the murders.
Huh.
According to investigators, the DNA was so compelling that ruled out every other person of interest, leaving gene Hart as the sole individual who could have committed the crime upon their list.
Okay, sorry, I'm just letting this sink in. So it would have ruled out that other guy. I can't even remember the what the hell his name was, Williams. Williams.
Yeah, So May's County Sheriff Mike Reid gave a statement quote, unless something new comes up, something brought to light that we are not aware of, I'm convinced where I'm sitting of Heart's guilt and involvement in this case. Despite his confidence. Though Jean Leroy Hart has never officially been named as the killer.
Well, i mean like at this point too, he's deceased. Well he is, but I mean they can still put it against his name exactly.
And they could have like an answer assolved, you know, like they could say that, but they can't. It's not strong enough to technically, but it's strong enough to say that they are fucking confident.
Yeah, but confident. But then they can't really put it through the courts.
Well, that's the thing. It's like in many cases, it's like the investigators know who the fuck did it, they just need to prove it. And it's like, Okay, we need certain things to prove it, and those certain things are just unavailable.
Man, this and that, you know, this is just like a piss off and a half because this motherfucker should have been in jail.
Right, he should have been, but he escaped.
I hate that. I hate that.
Yeah. So one of the reasons they cannot definitively point this murder whole thing it's Gene being I mean, of course, a side of the DNA evidence is because of a few other details I don't want to touch on. One of the most puzzling pieces of the evidence was the bloody shoeprint found of the scene. It was two sizes smaller than Jean's shoe, so it's not like he was wearing just a large shoe. It was smaller, suggesting that another individual might have been present. As you already mentioned, Hey,
there could have been someone else. So there's also Additionally, at Gene's trial, a blood spatter expert testified that the pattern of injuries on the victim suggested two different weapons. Had been used, likely by someone who was right handed and someone who was left handed, which could be again two different people, someone who's left handed someone who's right I don't know if anyone heard that, but Nicole literally just scratched her head in confusion. Okay, so I'll say this again.
No, no, I get it, I get it. I'm just like processing thinking and what the heck? Okay, because the fact the shoe thing.
Yeah, okay, So if they are very like solidly convinced that Jane was involved in this, then there most likely was a second person involved in me.
I wonder if him and that will did you say Williams right? William Yeah, could have been like working together and like Gene could be the one that did like the assaulting, right or something.
Is the potential of that, but investigators have ruled out William.
Yeah, but I mean, if there's two people doing this though, and he just William didn't do like, you know, the most terrible part of it. Well, the whole thing is terrible, but he could have just been there like helping, Like maybe they like found each other and they met up and kind of become friends and he stagged along.
You're right, it's very possible, but I don't know what the authorities have, but they have ruled him out. Okay, so I'm not too certain it could be someone else entirely. But so another thing it is, it's certainly possible for one person to subdue three young girls without any of them escaping. But logically speaking, it would be much easy for two adult males to subj do three small girls, especially in the dark.
Like that, because you think more noise would be made, you know, exactly.
Yeah, So the more you look at it, the more you think about it, the more you think two people make a lot of sense. The DNA may point toward Gene's involvement, but the case is technically unsolved and there is no name to a killer. But evidence I believe does tell us it was likely committed by two individuals on that fateful night.
And maybe that's why they're not like totally pinpointing Gene.
Well, what if three DNA samples were conclusive on Gene but two or not? What if those two are of the other killer?
Yeah? Okay, yep, But like was he from the area? How who elks would you have known there? And stuff? Because like this guy's like he's a runaway.
He's from the area though, at least because I mean he's well, whether he's a runaway or not, he's part of the Cherokee Nation, and he's clearly being housed and taken in by by his people because when they found him, he was at a local medicine man's house being sheltered there.
Right.
Whether he is actually like a part of this, like he grew up or knows these people, or he's just being taken in because it's like, hey, you know what, we're alike, and you know what we were looking out for you. Whether either or is the case, he's still being accepted because they firmly believed it was not him, and they believed that it was racial profiling while they
were after him. So I'm sure if he didn't know any of them, they would have treated him very well, because like, hey, you know what, we understand the racial profiling. They've been there, we want to help you. Why wouldn't they want to help them?
Yeah?
I would if I were them.
This is one of those cases that it's just like complete bullshit. The fact that it isn't solved, I know, like I just this is just one of those cases that need needs to be solved, but.
I don't think it ever will be. I think it's solved, but they just they just need something to prove it. All it is.
They just need second or something, right, the second individual or something.
All they need is a fingerprint. A fingerprint would definitively prove if they could pull Jean's fingerprint from the scene. That's all they need to say.
At this point, they're not going to be able to do that. No, Like it's done, that's done. Yeah hmm, Okay, So.
That's the case of the Oklahoma girl scope murders.
I actually did think more girls die than just three, So in my head I had this. I mean, this is a terrible, terrible case. It's like one of the worst, but I for some reason thought that there was either there were more vis yeah huh, well they could.
Have been a fourth victim.
Well yeah, poor little Doris. It could have only just been two victims, right if she had stayed.
Home, could have been none if this person was just behind bars.
To sha touche.
Yeah. So which kind of leads me to think, like, Okay, they searched for this guy and found him after a year, so how hard were they searching for him? When he was running for four years.
You know, I had honestly thought about that too while you were presenting this case. I was like, now, it's like a big ass deal for them to find this guy, right, so that that's kind of motherfucker.
That's kind of a piss off and all on its own. It's like if you just searched for him prior to because they probably weren't even searching for him, it's probably just like, ah, he'll turn up.
Yeah, Like at that point, they probably you know, weren't putting a lot of effort into it. Yeah, huh, what a shitty case to research? Was. I was like, I'm not going to be able to research this case.
I finished researching it while on vacation here.
I know, I was at Disney.
Like yesterday and Universal the day before, and here I'm just like now murder. Although I will admit in our hotel here, in our little resort that we was staying at, we've just had Dateline on like the entire time.
Yeah, oh sometimes I missed cable, but it's if they had HGTV, I would be watching that this whole entire course. Of course, it's one or the other, but hey, this watching dateline. I think I have at least like two or three cases now that I want to cover from from it being on. So there you go, it's like working doing my research.
There you go. Can we write this trip off? Then? Maybe?
Oh yeah, that's not a bad idea.
There we go.
I was like, that just brought back memories of you asking our accountant if we can write off booze.
Well, it's part of the show.
I honestly can't even remember what her answer was, but I guess I'll have to ask it again.
Anyways, thank you guys for being here. We're going to shut this down, upload this so you guys can listen to it and make our way over to Universal's Halloween Horror Nights or whatever it's called. So wish this luck.
Wish us some big time luck, and send us.
Some messages on your experience if if you've gone and checked it out in the past.
Yeah, I'm terrified.
Maybe we'll see some of you there. Who knows.
Yeah, you never know.
You probably won't listen to this in time. You'll probably like see us there, not know it's us, and then come home listen to it and you'll be like shit, I was there too. Yeah, but anyways, thanks for being here. You guys are amazing. Of course, as always checked the description, dingly do thing down there where you can get in full on our podcast and socials and stuff. We've got Patreon, Instagram, website, youtub's,
you name it. We are going to do a vlog of going to this Halloween horror night, which will be uploaded on one of our channels there, so feel free to check that out soon.
I almost don't want to do that vlog. I'm going to have to like not look like I'm a scared little girl.
Just put on your brave face.
I'll try try my best
All right, Okay, we'll talk to you guys later and until then, stay wicked.