The murder of JonBenét Ramsey

Hey, my friends, what's up.

I'm Nicol and I am Ben and you are listening to Wakening.

Grim, a true crime podcast, many podcast.

Material at your audience. That can always do that every.

Time, you know that, right, cry podcast? And I'm just gonna get it longer and longer.

It's reminded me of like a cardgo a bys like it's like it's going by the highway or something.

You know, it's my thing. Thing, that's the thing.

My thing is. I don't know that's my thing.

Yeah, that very much shows your thing. I'm drinking breaking water. I don't drink enough water.

I'm drinking bread mm hmm yep.

So welcome, what's up?

Welcome back. How's it going, guys? What's what's happening? How's your December?

Christmas month? It's a Christmas month, the Christmas month, and we're going to be trying to pick Christmas themed cases. If you say you like the one that I'm doing today, it's very no and everyone's going to know it. It's just that it just happened. The event happened on Christmas. So I don't know there's themed.

I don't know if there's really Christmas themed. True Crimed unless it's like involving Santa Claus and elves and stuff. I mean, I'm sure there's some out there.

I know, I maybe haven't been searching hard enough because I was searching, but I didn't really find any that were super interesting.

Yeah, well, we'll find some stuff. It's most likely it's just going to be revolving around Christmas time. But yeah, are one that's gonna fall closest to Christmas. It's going to be very Christmasy themed.

Yeah, that's gonna be fun.

It's gonna be good.

It's gonna be really cool.

Yeah, I like it.

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Yeah, okay, what do we got for today?

Okay? Well, oh my goodness. So I'm going to start us off by basically asking a question forty two that is not the answer.

That is the answer to everything in the universe and everything beauty pageants.

You know, you know, beauty pageants, Yes, involving children. Okay, what are your thoughts?

That's about it?

I mean that could be an unpopular opinion. I feel like in Canada beauty pageants aren't overly popular so muchish thing. But I actually remember being in Edmonton one time and I was staying at a hotel and there was some beauty pageant thing going, and like all these children were running around with like their hair done way better than mine, more makeup than me, fancy outfits, and I was like, are you fuck?

Are you sure that wasn't at that like hotel resort? Where were at in Florida?

Oh? Was it?

I think so? Because I was there and I'm pretty sure that was in Florida.

Oh shit, I thought it was an Edmont definitely not. Okay, So you were there, Yes, I was there. Okay, I don't remember you being there. Thanks you, I mean for that particular moment. But that was like really the only time I've ever experienced like pageant kids I have known in like real life.

I've known like some high school people like who I think my brother in law's sister, she was in some pageants when she was like a teenager. That's about it, Okay.

I feel like, okay, do it as a teenager, as an adult whatever. But I guess I just when it's like little children, it's sometimes like they are they doing it on like their own free will or is it just literally their parents, Like this is what their parents want for them.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I'm not in this world, so I could be completely wrong, But as far as an outsider perspective, I see it as the parents living vicariously through their children and like forcing their kids to do some pretty extreme things for their own amusement.

Enjoyment, yes, or rank, even social rank. Really yeah, definitely. So anyway, if that's not a clue, what the hell we're talking about So today we'll be talking about the John John Benet Ramsey murder ding dang, And I would say this is a very well known case, Like I think, I think a lot of people would know about this case, and it's very unfortunate because to this day it's still unsolved, is it really? Yeah, which I think is really shitty.

I haven't dove into this case before, but I have heard the name.

I knew a little bit about it, but yeah, this was like the first time early dove deep. I also thinking I feel like I compare this to the Gabby what was her last Gabby Ptito Petito in the fact that, like sometimes I feel like media just gravitates to like certain cases and they get like worldwide coverage more so than others. And I feel like this is one that really did well.

It's no, it's it's virality. I mean, you have the same sort of thing with memes. You have it with trends, like, for example, trends on TikTok. You can have like someone doing just the stupidest dumb dance video or whatever, and for whatever reason, people.

Just end up I know, like there's no reason really, but there's sometimes I think just things get picked up more than others.

Right, all it takes is for the right person with influence to pick it up, and then everyone else is basically going to follow us.

Yeah yeah.

So like, for example, if it's an older true crime case, if one news source decides, say Fox News decides, oh hey, this is a local murder or a local victim or some sort of case, we got an extra spot. Let's throw it on air. All of a sudden, now it's getting this national coverage because other news sources are probably going to be looking at it as well. And now it's being broadcast in your TV home, and now people are going to work and talking about it.

Everyone starts talking about it, and then it's boom, it's there.

So that's all it takes. It's just that, just one that one little spark.

Okay. So. John bin A Ramsay was born on August sixth, nineteen ninety in Atlanta, Georgia. Described as a sweet natured, radiant little girl, was outgoing and loved to perform. She was a beauty pageant star, following in her mama's footsteps. Some of the titles that she had I don't know why I'm saying these, but I'm just gonna say them

Now I ain't no beauty queen, but those sound like.

Some serious titles. Yeah, I feel like they actually sound like pretty legit, like she was like the real dale here. So the Ramsey family, John Ramsey, he's the father. He was a businessman who was the president of Access Graphics, which is a computer software company, which this made the family very well off. They were. They were well off.

They were well off, very well off, very well off.

They were very well you'll get you'll get to hear exactly how well off they were. And interestingly enough, the dad, John wasn't super cam comfortable with the idea of pageants.

Okay, so he's much more I would say conservative. I don't know if that's right, but anyways, he kind of follows the same mindset in this instances us.

But I feel like that's super sad because it probably caused him some regret because some say it was due to John Bennet's beauty pageant experience that may have attracted the attention of child pedophiles. So that's real shitty.

No kidding. I do just want to point out, for a real quick moment, when I said conservative, I'm not saying we are conservative. I'm not saying he's conservative. I'm just that one judgment call is more conservative, is what I meant.

Yeah, okay, I think that in a sense, someone should be conservative with their children because like, do you want this little girl in this limelight? Oh yeah, like we're child pedophiles or able to like see her dressed scantily clad like she's six. I don't know, but yeah, we're just gonna move on because I don't know. If it's an unpopular opinion, I have no idea.

That's that's that's a major issue social media these days, though, too. Right. All it takes is for you to have a fun day at the beach with your kid and post a picture.

No, yeah, it's scary. Oh it's so scary. Okay. Oh so Patsy Ramsey the mom Patsy Ramsey, pep pet Oh yeah, Patsy Patsy Ramsey.

That name is dope as fun.

I don't know if that's her full name or she just went by Patsy. I'm not even sure, but so she was John's second wife, also very outgoing. I feel like she was creating a mini me with her daughter. She loved to decorate, and especially at Christmas. Their house was basically like an open house, and they give neighbors tours of their beauty, beautifully decorated home. Oh fuck off,

I just I don't know, that's like extremely full of yourself, like, yeah, come in, look what I have, Look what I do. What we show, like, that's just show body as fuck.

Their home, my love was seven thousand square feet yeah, no, four floors, Like it was ginormous, Like that's a mansion.

I think, well that's a fucking mansion.

Yeah. And it had a wine cellar, which I do love, Like I think, if you make it in this world, you got a wine cellar.

Yeah.

For me to get a tiny home with a wine cellar, I don't know if that's quite how that works or I may all have a separate, tiny home that's just a wine cellar.

Yeah, there you go, okay.

And then she also had a brother who was nine years old at the time of the murder, and his name was Burke Ramsey. And for a little bit of foreshadowing there three three individuals would all be considered suspects later on in this story.

Ohh and it's unsolved too, so there are probably still suspects to this day even.

Who Yeah, so though Bennett Bennet, I always want to call her something elk.

It probably is what you're thinking, I think, so.

Yeah. So John Benet was born in Atlanta, Georgia at the time of At the time of the murder, the family, however, lived in Boulder, Colorado. And I did a quick Google search of Boulder and it looked like a freaking beautiful, freaking city.

Colorado in itself is a gorgeous country.

I was like, oh my gosh, I need you need to visit that. Well.

Colorado like is very similar to British Columbia as far as like the Mountain ranges.

Is it okay? I didn't know that it was. It was also known to be a relatively safe city at the time, with a low crime rate, so the city wasn't necessarily necessarily equipped to handle an investigation of this magnitude. It also taking place over the holidays could have seen investigators not on the clock at the particular time, which is unfortunate because you'll hear some of the errors made in the investigation that definitely could play on why this case is unsolved.

Oh shit, and if it's a missing kid or miss anyone missing first twenty four hours it's like the most crucial. So if they're off on holidays and shit, not able to answer, yeah.

Because it's like right Christmas time. I feel like the higher rank you are, you get holidays right, and yeah, year off. So two officers to this date are apparently still assigned to this case at the Balder Police Department. Wow, which I actually was like, Wow.

No kidding, And what years did this occur?

Nineteen ninety six?

Wow? Okay, and they're still that legit. It's not even a close case. It's ongoing, hey, like actively ongoing.

Yeah okay. So to get on with the story, it was Christmas Day nineteen ninety six. The Ramses woke up, had the morning at their house, opening gifts, making a big breakfast and then went to have dinner at a friend's house. It could literally have been described as the perfect Christmas day.

Of course, dun well, before you get to the dune, done done part. Of course, it's going to be a perfect Christmas day when your family is rich as fuck. Yeah, just seven thousand square foot home with multiple Christmas trees, probably like chef's.

Cooking for you, gifts that you probably got, right, of course.

It's a perfect fucking Christmas Day. It could be midsummer with like like forty degrees outside Celsius by the way, for those people who are like that's cold. Yeah, and you'd be like, fuck yeah, Christmas, motherfuckers, because I got all the presents and shit. Of course, the kid's gonna think it's perfect Christmas Day.

I just have to say, hopefully I'm not slow to present this because I didn't really realize how burnt my tongue was. I can't tell. I started like reading this all and so it's actually like physically hurting me.

So what did you eat? So I don't even know, but my.

Scoldings really hurting, And now I'm like, shit, this is gonna be hard. So anyway, if I'm not acting one hundred percent. That's why, because my tongue is burned as fuck.

That's why your tongue burned as the fuck.

Okay, So they arrived home late, with John and Patsy saying they put John Beney to bed as soon as they got home. I believe it was around ten pm or so.

Okay.

Little did they know that would be the last time they would see John Beney alive. Patsy would wake up the next day around five five thirty and headed downstairs to the kitchen around five thirty five. I'm assuming to make some coffee, because what else do you do first thing in the morning. Yeah, I don't do that. However, on the stairs she would find a two and a half page handwritten note.

Oh shit, a r.

Ransom note saying her daughter had been kidnapped. Not a way any parent would want to start their day. I have the contents or you're looking at me?

Sorry, just there's major red flags already to me.

Yeah, yeah, there should be. I have the contents of this letter, and I thought this might be the perfect time to bring a special guest back to read the contents of this letter.

What what do you mean, jacko oh, showay no, really, mister Ramsey, listen carefully.

We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign factor. We do respect your business, but not the country that it serves. At this time, we have your daughter in our possession. She is safe and unharmed, and if you want her to see nineteen ninety seven, you will follow our instructions to the letter. You will withdraw one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars from your account. One hundred thousand will be in one hundred dollar.

Bills and the remaining eighteen.

Thousand will be in twenties. Make sure that you bring an adequate size a cachet to the bank. When you get home, you will put the money in a brown paper bag. I will call you between eight and ten a m. Tomorrow to instruct you on delivery. The delivery will be exhausting, so I advise you to be rested. If we monitor you getting the money early, we might call you early to arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence an earlier delivery pick up of your daughter.

Wow, thank you, jack O.

Yes, Okay, that was fucking awesome.

That was actually super cool.

Thanks for dropping that. And even though it was gonna fucking.

Happen, holy super into that I planned ahead.

Okay, no ship, Okay, yeah, the jackal part fucking awesome. The note holy fuck quite alarming? Hey, uh yeah, just slightly, you.

Know, so a quite an alarming thing to find first thing in the morning. And b like, that's a fucking ransom note and a half.

Yeah, and what was it at the end?

SBTC, s BTC.

I wonder what the fuck that is?

And well, I'm just gonna say to this day, I don't know if anyone know was really Oh sorry, I'm like, yeah, I'm too comfortable. I'm about to yell at her dog.

And I'm like, Mika, get out of there. She's going for the kiddie.

Yes, go on your bed, come on, okay, continue, Okay. So to talk a little bit about that, it was an uncharacteristically long ransom note, yes, apparently very carefully written, and when investigators attempted to rewrite the note, they found it would take approximately twenty minutes to write that note, which is a long ass time.

So there's definitely premeditation, clearly, Well, I don't know.

So all fine and dandy, but the ransom note was actually written at the Ramsey house. Was it stationary? And a pen were used from the home, And there was allegedly a first draft even of this ransom note that was found and that what we just heard was the second draft shit, which is really fucking weird.

That's it's someone in the fucking house, you know, the fucking horror movie Worse. So like I see you, you know, and they're like, then they call nine on one. They're like, oh, yeah, this weird is calling me and they're like, the call is coming from inside the house. Yeah, that's what this literally is. And I guarantee the STBC or whatever probably just a decoy. It's probably right, Yes.

I think it's probably just bogus. Yeah, yeah, Because basically I was going to say, would someone have that much time to spend on a ransom note? And would they care if they made an error, like they're stealing someone's fucking child, Like, who cares if they're not leaving this perfect letter behind?

Right, if they are wanting to leave a perfect letter behind, they're doing it outside, bringing it in, slapping on the table.

And oh exactly. Also, oddly enough, the ransom money requested one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars.

Yeah, it's weird number.

It was a weird fucking number. But was the exact same amount of John's Christmas bonus that year.

Oh shit, that's a fucking healthy bone.

I know, shit, what the hell that's like? An Can I have that kind of bonus?

Can I just get that for like my allowance allowance?

So for that being, your bonus is fucked right up? But then for also this to have that exact amount, like, how many people would know how much his bonus was, right? I feel like very few people.

No kidding.

So Patsy obviously freaks the fuck out, as I'm sure any parent would do. The house awakes and they call nine one one. So I have the nine one one recording of Patsy calling in that will ship for ship.

Let's hear it.

What's going on?

The man?

What's going on?

Okay?

I don't work left.

How old is your daughter?

Your god?

How long ago live? I don't know. I took kill the dome and my dad kids a dame who took her.

But it's the same kid.

I don't know. The ransom not here, it's a ransom now because it's see see Victory.

Please Okay, what's your name?

Are you?

Gonnappy?

Lam here?

I'm the mother?

Oh my god, please, I'm okay, I'm colling.

I'm not the film.

Okay.

Do you know how long she's been?

Oh?

I don't please, we just got out and she run here.

Oh my god, please, okay, body, I am honey. Please take the pepa okay, hat Patty.

Catty, patty.

Holy shit, the panic I know, like she's just here terrified. You can tell that she's out of breath because she's probably just running around their seven thousand square foot home looking for her daughter.

Right, yes, well and like having a literal fucking panic attack like that fucking breaks my heart. And props to that fucking person on nine to one, the dispatch caller, because holy shit, she was calm.

Oh yeah, they're amazing, no kidding, like dispatch. I feel like people who do dispatch like that are just uncredible. But I feel like if the parents had anything to do with this, could you like bake that kind of emotion.

I don't think the mom has anything to do with it. No, I didn't even before I had that or heard that call.

Yeah, because she was just like panicked.

My gut doesn't say the dad either.

It makes you just get goosebumps. Really, that's a sad thing to play on here, Like, yeah, it's horrific.

But I do want to ask, do you know if they had any staff working in the house?

Yeah they did. Yeah, okay, we'll talk about mostly one of them later. So police officer Rick French arrived at the home was just before six am and does a search. During her search, he supposedly passed a door in the basement. Paused outside that door, but they didn't open it, and I don't really know why, but for but behind that door was John John Benet's body.

What yeah, oh shit, so the dad's dad.

Oh no John Benney.

Oh oh shoot, sorry, I thought John.

Was the dad for so was the kill John Benney is acting. I didn't even put that. And is named after the dad because the dad's it was like John Bennett Ramsey, gotcha, So they named John Beney anyway, So yeah, that in behind that door was the little girl. But I put just basically putting this in there to show like how unthorough that initial search by the place was.

No shit, that is okay, even if Wow, Okay, hold on, whoa, whoa what are you? Okay, whoa? I need to back up here.

What fuck?

So she was already dead. She was already dead and stashed in the fucking house. Yes, then how the fuck would they even hope to get the ransom because of course the body was is gonna be found fairly quickly.

Yeah, it's all like that note is staged, like she was already downstairs in the basement dead.

And no one heard any scream. Holy fuck.

Okay, So I didn't put this in there either, but since you said that there was a neighbor at one point, I think it was like two in the morning did hear a scream, okay, but didn't do anything about it. I mean it was just a single scream, I think, and it was basically like the bottom level and how the window was. The neighbor would be able to hear it, because they later tested this, but where the parents were, like fucking how many stories up? Yeah, wouldn't hear this.

Well, nowadays there are like monitors and shit too.

Yeah, but at six you probably don't still have a monitor in your kids. So I'm just like, Wow, anyway, where the hell am I?

You're taking us on a fucking roller coaster. That's where you are. You're heading this thing. You're fucking hitting high speed.

Okay, So I just dropped the bomb. But they at that point, they didn't think that they were looking for a dead body, right, So at that point they're not thinking that they were. But there could have been clues all through the house. Like I know the house is man massive, but like opening all open every door, like look in every room, like there could be evidence and shit and clues.

So I'm surprised the mom didn't find her.

Well why would I don't know. She's probably going in her room and like, yeah, areas normally is she probably doesn't hang out on the base, true, Yeah, Okay, I don't.

I imagine she wouldn't literally check every square into the house. She's panicking, Yeah, Like that's a giant house.

So aside from the police, Patsy also calls around the neighborhood and family friends. I'm assuming to kind of form some sort of like part search party. But I also don't know if I feel okay about that because the ransom note said don't even talk to a stray fucking dog. Yeah, right, And here she's already phoned the police, she's phoning friends,

Yeah, there is so holy This case is fucked because I'm sitting there thinking, look, okay, yeah, sure you're panicked. You're gonna be fucking calling nine one one doing that, but you're not gonna be calling your fucking friends and shit, whether they say don't call police or not, clearly you're probably gonna call police.

I know, I think I would call the police. But then I'm also in my mind, Okay, maybe she's just calling all these people to help search for her daughter.

Yeah, but if you do, your daughter's dead, I know.

So it's like it wasn't almost taking that note seriously whatsoever.

And also, here's the thing. One hundred and eighteen grand was a ransom, right, Yeah, just so happened to be his fucking Christmas bonus.

Yep.

If someone was holding my child ransom for my Christmas bonus, that's fucking chump change.

Well, and they got it. They did get the money, like they got it instantly, Like it didn't take John very long. He got the fucking money.

Yeah, So why wouldn't he just be like, Okay, let's just fucking get the police involved. Let's pay this and fucking try and get our daughter back and then track these fuckers.

Yeah. See, we're going I'm going like I'm throwing so much more extra information in here. This might be a long episode. Where was it going here?

I'm gonna be obsessed with this case after this just seeming like holy fuck.

Oh my gosh. Now I don't think I forget what we were talking about. Then I'm like, so my brain is just done, okay, yes, yes, yes, yes. So A lot of people felt that the family also didn't take the time seriously because I think it said like eight and ten am they needed to have the money by right, Yeah, but it also said to moral So when I read that, I felt like it was the twenty seventh that they

It doesn't it doesn't have any sort of like specification on a date.

Well, no, it just set eight to ten am to moral. It does say tomorrow, Yes it does, because I double checked that, because when I first read that, I was like, okay, it's the next day. But then technically if she got murdered at like Christmas Day at like eleven pm, like, so I don't know. I was like super unclear with that.

I would assume, well, you wake up and find the ransom note, it's going to be the next day.

Well that's what I thought. But then there was a lot there was reports that I was reading that were basically faulting the parents for not being concerned that that at that time.

Yeah, but that's just because it's hindsight, because they found the daughter dead.

Yeah, but that time passed before they found the daughter dead.

When did they find the daughter dead?

Not till later in the afternoon, dude, But.

That day, not tomorrow, that day. Yeah, so it doesn't matter.

I know.

But a lot of people are thinking that it should be that day.

I know. But the only reason they're thinking that is because they found the daughter. That's hindsight. They're not saying that in that I know. They're not investigators aren't like it's fucking eleven, you guys need to be hustling. And then they find the daughter dead an hour later. Yeah, if they found the daughter and then later on people sleuth like us or whatever are saying, well, they should have done du diligence.

But I but I think it was the next day.

Like I don't know.

There's just so much weird shit in this case, Like it's weird. It's it's already weird. And god, rum's only halfway here. Okay, let's move on here.

This this is a fucking intense one. I'm going to have major opinions. I'm sorry.

Oh just see, you mean to tell you we get to all the accused or suspects. Okay, So I'm sure a lot of behind the scene shit happened, but it wasn't until the early afternoon when Linda, the first detective on the scene, pulled aside John and a friend and requested them to do a top to bottom search of the home, which was like, what the fuck?

Wait wait wait, wait wait, why don't the investigators do it?

I know, like, I think the police should have already done that, But then I'm also like, maybe John's going to know if anything's missing or misplaced aside from the police, right, and like giving him something to do. So it was at that point that during the search that John would open the spare room door in the basement and find John Benet's body.

Shit.

It looked like she had been strangled and her mouth and neck were covered with duct tape and her hands and feet were bound. It says bound, but it's so say bound. He immediately picks her up, oh forkes and runs upstairs screaming, my baby. The duct tape gets removed from John Benet's body and she is placed under the Christmas tree and covered with a blanket once it is

No, yeah, that's that's fine. I mean, of course, I'm just like, fuck, yeah, he just tamper with the crime scene. But yeah, I can't blame him. He just found his daughter dead.

Yeah, so like he fucked up.

But yeah, I mean I get it.

Oh, like just seeing your like just like help me, like my baby.

Yeah, but the only thing is like removing all the duct tape. What do they do with the duct tape because that could hold a shit ton of evidence, like hair, fingerprints.

But I don't know what they did with the duct tape. I think it did get tested actually, and there was red fibers or something on it, but I didn't super look into that. Okay, but by moving the body, evidence was obviously tainted. But let's also be real for a second, because evidence was already tainted by the investigators not properly securing the crime scene from the beginning for sure, allowing

Why.

I don't know. I think it was like people thinking they were being helpful, like, let's clean their fucking kitchen for them. But like, we have no idea that ransom note could have been written in the kitchen, right, it was found near the kitchen.

So let me get this straight. There is a kidnapping that and there's a ransom left that says do not call police or contact anybody. Yeah, first thing, the parents do call police and then contact everybody they fucking know and invite them over.

Yeah.

Second of all, the police then arrive and let all these people in the house. Yeah, and then don't search the house thoroughly, let people walk around the house and also help in the search. Yeah inside the house. Yeah, so literally doing everything you're not supposed to do.

Yeah, okay, okay, Like it just shows some complete inexperience on just so many levels, like just so many All right, are you okay?

I just feel like they went like their local middle school and got like the hall pass monitors to process a crime scene.

And I feel like we would almost do better.

I feel like fucking Mika and Ripley could do a better fucking crime scene investigation. Get a couple huskies on the scene.

They've done.

Yeah. So at ten forty five that night, the Balder County Corners team would remove John Benet's body from the house, which I also feel like, that's a ridiculously long time for it to just be lan. Yeah. The autopsy would show that little John Benet had been killed by strangulation and a skull fracture. She was struck on the head so violently that her skull had an eight point five inch fracture jeez, which is like long, Like that's huge.

That's what she said.

I was saying that.

I was like, I shouldn't say this, no, but legit, yes, you're a little kid. I mean, I don't think your skull actually girls, but does does it?

Yeah?

I thought that your head was kind of the size that it was going to be ish for most of you. No, oh, okay, I have no idea you apparently. Okay, So from that, could you imagine that, dum. I don't know why I'm getting something mixed up. I think with that, I don't know, but let's long go there. We're not talking about child

Is it like like a handle on either end of the rope sort of thing, so you have like two handles and then a rope and you go around the back sort of thing or so.

But then I thought that the wood or no, maybe it was on the end.

So was it like you wrap it around and you start twisting the handle so it slowly tightens.

I don't know.

I don't know.

There's pictures of this, of this thing.

Okay, maybe I'll give it a Google.

But it's basically I think the gist of it is like basically helps you strangle someone easier and better. Oh god, there was evidence of Okay, there was no evidence of conventional rape, but DNA was found on John Benny's underwear, and there was evidence of vaginal injury. It had appeared her vaginal area had been wiped with a cloth. Her death was very obviously ruled a homicide.

Geez.

There was more details about the like, yeah, no thing, but let's just not go there.

A grot as far as I can see just quick Google Google. Is yeah, like the wire with like two wooden handles in the either end so you can like get leverage and hold onto it nice and tight and good, which is just gross. Yeah.

Yeah, And so that was made at the house too, because it was it was using like a paint brush, broken paint brush of Patsy's. So a couple odd tidbits. The autopsy revealed John Benet had eaten pineapple a few hours before dying, and photographs taken at the home on the day when her body was found do show a bowl of pineapple in the kitchen, but neither parent remembers putting the bowl on the table or feeding pineapple to John Benet. Police reported that they found Burke's fingerprints on

That does make sense a little bit.

Yeah, Their appearance on CNN also shocked investigators though, since they had claimed earlier to be too emotional to talk to the police, but then they went into the CN en thing. Okay, So that basically moves us into discussing the suspects. There have been over one hundred and forty suspects in this case. Shit, that's not in a low number. But I'll just be touching on the main suspects, which brings us, which brings me to John Benet's parents. This

Not compared to today. It was like just starting to like explode, I think.

Yeah. Though many still suspect them. And here's why. So for Patsy, who unfortunately is no longer with us. She died in two thousand and six from a thirteen year battle with cancer, which is really sad. It's thought that Patsy killed John Benet on accident in a fit of rage after she wet her bed once again, apparently Benet had like a bed wedding thing. I think that's a

The motive is off though she was strangled, so.

She's gonna yeah, but they're saying yeah, they're saying yeah, that's actually the autopsy showed she was strangled, because even if she had killed her and hit her head like to fake that later would just.

Be kind of yeah, there would just be some post mortem damage and a thing wrapped around her neck. They'd be able to tell, no problem.

Well, I don't know. I feel like some of the things that they should have been able to tell they didn't tell. So I don't know.

Yeah, but the autopsy is not an investigator unseen. Her body would have been taken away into a lab by a very specific individual processed or body.

Yeah. Okay, So for John, it's basically his weird actions the morning of the murder. But I really don't think people can judge a parent for that, Like stress, grief, trauma, they have very weird ways of affecting people, and you have no idea how you're gonna be affected basically yep. And I feel like it's mostly Linda. That detective on scene that I mentioned earlier, had an interview she did

You'd probably start complete opposite direction and then like work your way, like you say, middle to there.

Yeah, So I don't I think that's ridiculous. Then how he carried her body upstairs, removing tape from her mouth, placing a blanket over her, and basically destroying evidence that could have been vital after being told not to disturb anything, but touched on that. Yeah, And that's I guess when Linda started to feel that perhaps knew something too much, convincing herself that the murderer was in the house with her and apparently quietly counting the bullets in her holster

Well, it's the family is usually considered a suspect.

The goo they are. It was also suspicious that John was heard making arrangements to fly the family to Atlanta. I believe they had had a home there, but some reports say they had already planned to go to Atlanta, and John himself said at that point they had been asked to leave their house and just wanted to go home to Atlanta, where they had previously lived for twenty five years.

Yeah, that makes complete sense.

So I don't find that makes So that's basically why John's a suspect.

Well, would put it this way. Your daughter was just murdered in that house and you have other houses. Do you want to stay the night in that house even if you're allowed to.

No, But the investigators are like, you can't leave town, like you know, I mean, but if you had other most people don't have the option of going to another house. Like if you had another house, and I think he also had like a private plane, you would just like, why would you go to a hotel? You just go to your other house.

Yeah, you know.

So next up and the last of the family members accused would be Bururke.

This motherfucker. This is we haven't said a word about him yet except the fingerprints, the fingerprints on the bowl. So that makes me say, some shit is about to get dropped. Let's fucking hear it. This little cocksucker.

I don't know this. This is like I guess the one that could be the most legitimate and had bought the possibility. But I'm also on the fence of like, I don't think our team, I don't really think any of the family did it. But here we go. So with the brother, the theory is that Burke was having

Yeah, she's center of attention.

Like I think she was probably constantly the center of attention.

She's a little pageant queen, right.

The parents then not wanting to lose both children because if John Bennet was like accused of this, like he might have to go to juvenile detention or or like hospital of sorts or something, So they then go through the motions to cover the accidental murder. Up. I should say that flashlight though, was found with no tra evidence of either John Bennet or Burke, so I don't know. The parents were diligently still shielded. There you go, I spelt it wrong, So I said it how I spelt it.

Okay, Like to be.

Honest, when I'm uncomfortable, I fucking laugh. It's really awkward, and like I wish I didn't do it, but I'll laugh.

You did show me like a very brief clip of that, Like I think I saw like ten seconds of them, and it just looked like he was just an awkward person.

Not like like he's just he was also probably so uncomfortable. Yes, but it looks to doctor Phil for God's sake, and it.

Looks like he's socially awkward and then on top of it, super uncomfortable, you know what I mean.

Which she might have always been socially awkward, but just imagine this trauma that came to this family from this incident, right, Like that would change your life to be you'd be a completely different person.

Yeah.

So, lastly, John Bennet had marks on her back consistent with a stun gun. And this isn't mentioned in many places, but if she had, if she was stunned in my opinion, that's a big piece to the puzzle. A family member would not need to use a stun gun on her, But in the case of the brother being a suspect, they're saying the wounds were consistent with the edges of one of his toy train tracks, and he may have used it to poke his sister's unconscious body. For a response, you'd have.

To poke pretty fuck.

He's nine.

Yeah, because those those stun gun things they fucking.

Jab in like they sticky, and like I think if you're like, oh my gosh, did I hurt my sister just tapping her, you wouldn't be.

Like fucking stabbing her with train tracks? Wake up, Like, That's not how it's going to go.

I know. So, since this is an unsolved case with a lack of evidence to point to a definite suspect, I think it's really sad what this family had had to deal with, on top of also dealing with the loss of one of their own. I mean, I'll probably I could eat those words one day if one of them is like discovered to have been the murderer. But in my personal opinion, it doesn't seem like they were.

Well I'm really curious. Do you have anything about any staff in the house.

Well done with the suspect.

Okay, sorry, I thought you were okay, because that's I'm not too sold on any of the family members yet. No, I can't think of a scenario off the top of my head. But if it is any family member, all I can think of is it's accidental in some way that hasn't been discovered, because the ones that we talked about don't make sense to me.

Some sort of accident and there is a cover up, But then the strangulation doesn't really make sense.

It doesn't. It doesn't unless it was like some sort of fucking thing where the kids are playing and she ended up getting strangled because they were I don't know what they were doing, like maybe playing in blankets or something.

She got twisted up or tied and then you'd also just hit her head.

Maybe she's getting fucking strangled like with the blanket as they're playing on the couches or something, and she frantically trying to run away and then falls and smacks her head.

I guess, I don't know.

There's something like I feel like, if it's the family, there's some weird shit like that. That happened, and they're trying to cover it up, Yeah, for whatever reason.

Well, I know, and they I don't even think they would necessarily have to cover it up because they were like rich as fuck, right, Yeah, and they could hire They even lawyered up for this, right, so they could hire good lawyers, and I think they would have been able to be fine.

It just it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense. There's no there's no motive. The only motive I can think of is accidental, and any sort of accident would have to be fucking like a one end of a jillion fucking shot.

Okay, So there's there's a few more suspects, five more suspects, and I'm just very briefly going to touch on them. So first one being referred to as the town drifter, Gary Olivia was his name, and he was a known sex offender living in the area on and off. Police allegedly found a magazine cutout of John Bennet in his backpack after being apprehended on drug charges. Also on him at the time of his arrest was a stun gun. Yeah, I'm not buying it, what I think that's the most legitimate one.

Okay, what about the DMC on the tip of the stunt?

Just wait, not even done with this one, and you're

Telephone court Oh shit, okay, okay.

I don't know however, he was cleared by DNA testing, all right, So, but I feel like that scenario to me is like the most likely.

The thing that plagues me though, is the one hundred and eighteen very specific number that's.

True, because yeah, that wouldn't because if you knew how rich these people were, you would be asking for more money and.

How much time spent in the house writing a note. That's still another thing. Someone like that I don't think would hang around very long.

But then technically, like their house is giant. Someone could just be like almost living in there and they probably woudn't even know. Really that's true.

But still the less time spent, if there's someone spending a lot of time in there, there's probably more evidence.

Because there was one thing. I don't know if I say it later on, but there was a broken window too in the basement, and this broken window had like spider webs on the bottom of it. So they felt like it was almost staged because if someone was like exiting through this broken window, that the Spiroers would have gone wrecked. But I don't necessarily agree with that.

And then there was no footprints, right if there was a broken window, they would have noticed.

For yeah, So I don't know. That's why I didn't even put that in there, because it's like, like there's so much just weirdness. Okay, So next would be Michael Hellgolf. He was an electrician who worked in a nearby auto salvage yard who was in a property dispute involving the Ramsies and a bootprint. So they did find a bootprint. Apparently, a bootprint allegedly similar to Michael's was found near the

Oh shit, yeah, that m holy fuck. That's that's a huge red flag. I know, right, that says a lot of guilt, But that was just terrified what happens.

Yeah, he or he has mental health issues or something, and then and he was already struggling or something and then finds out that he's that note like and then just puts them over the edge. Yeah.

Yeah, it's so hard to say.

But I know, not great. So the next suspect is John Mark Karm. He's a former school teacher and someone who actually confessed to the crime.

So we have two people officially confessing to the crime. Then, so you have that wanderer. Dude.

Well I don't know if the wanderer confessed though.

Well, he confessed to hurting a little girl.

Okay, yeah, yeah, okay, I see where're going. So at the time of his confession, he was living in Thailand, where he'd been living and running away from facing child pornography charges. So he's a real winner. He sent an email confessing to the crime and his sexual fascination with John Bennet. He was cleared when the DNA wasn't a match and written off as a pedophile who was after.

Nodery notoriety.

I can't even speak and fame so like gross, like a nasty motherfucker human, like who the fuck wants.

That's like the fucking don't fuck with Cat's guy.

Basically, oh god, we're not talking about that right now.

Fuck that guy.

Okay, two more Linda Hoffman Pugh, I think is how you say her name would be the next suspect?

Wasn't she the investigator?

No different, different, Linda, Linda good good observation there you're listening, would be would be the next aspect, And being that she was the family's hossekeeper, she had full access to the home and family's schedules and the.

Ability to potentially find out.

The mount that he absolutely she could have found that out as she was cleaning his desk. Patsy herself at one point accusing Linda, saying her and her husband her husband was their handyman, were struggling for money and asked for a loan, but the Ramses declined them. So the idea is that Linda and her husband came up with this plan to basically trick the Ramses into leaving them

Is that all for her? Okay, Yeah, I'm not buying it. There's there there's no evidence there. It's just an accusation.

That's it, Okay, And it was, oh, okay, this is this is sorry. I'm just like, there's so much Like I could probably talk about this for like five episodes.

This is why I like mystery won so much. Unsolved is because the theories. I fucking love going into theories.

So Patsy when they were asked at one point, like who do you think could hurt your daughter? Right, and Patsy threw out Linda and John Ramsey had actually thrown out that electrician that I said that like killed himself, right, Okay, So but it's just random. I feel like if someone was like, if something happened bad or whatever, and They're like, who do you think would do this? Like, I don't know if I could come up with someone that like hated me.

That much, I could, Yeah, I don't know which.

I'm okay with? Okay, And the last main suspect, you ready, No, Santa Claus himself?

Are you fucking kidding me?

So?

Bill, Bill McReynolds aka the town Santa, You fucking serious? He was a friend of the Ramsies and dressed up as Santa the week before the murder to entertain the neighborhood at one of Patsy's Christmas gatherings. Santa, how could you rumored to have paid a little bit too much attention to John Bennet? H And that's all I'm going to say about that one.

Fuck Santa, You're dirty, old man? Geez, what is with you? Come on?

So, there you have it, a twenty five year old case that I sure hope is solved one day, but I fear it won't be. And it sure would be interesting to see what would have come of John Benet if she was alive today, if she would have become a star, as it seemed she was definitely on track to be one.

Did you really have to end that on a note of Santa Claus being a Fido like, geez, Christmas.

Wow, oh he was listed. Do you want me to this is a Christmas episode? Do you want me to that?

It was well played, well played, But poor John, that's for sure.

Wow.

And John ben A Yeah, yeah, holy shit. That is just the fact that it's been so long and hasn't gotten solved. It's just like heartbreaking.

It probably won't ever because it was just the investigation was too fucking shit showed.

I know, like at this like it just could have been handled so differently and the outcome probably would have been so different.

They lost way too much evidence as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, I'm curious though if there was more staff at that house.

I know, I with all the research that I went through, those that was the only ones that were listed.

I'm sure there was more have.

To have been like they would have want they would have needed house cleaners and ship and stuff, right or sure that's huge house.

But with more staff, I guarantee that they were looked at as well.

And John Ramsey had also had children from a previous marriage and they were looked at you so like so many people were looked at but just nothing has. But I also just like question like how accurate was that DNA collected and stuff? But then they missed on so many fingerprints and everything too. I think like unless it was done by someone in the house.

But my bed is someone in the house, But I'm not sold it was on the family. That's why I want to look at potentially who else is in that house.

Yeah, because even the fact on.

That there was a broken window, no footprints outside, that right there says it's staged so stage by who needs to stage it?

Because it does all lost so many aspects If it looked very staged.

The only time you're going to need to break a window and not use it is if you are in the house. If you need to get in the house, you're going to break a window and use it.

Yeah.

So that right there, and knowledge of the one hundred and eighteen thousand is someone in the house?

Well, and then the fact that they that ransom letter two used on the own stationary and.

Like, yeah, take take all that time, and it took that long, someone outside is going to write it and bring it in.

Like I feel so terrible saying this, but I feel like John Binney might have known who did this to her?

Oh probably right, Yeah, which is it most likely felt very comfortable. Otherwise you would have heard many more screams potentially.

And yeah, because like they the neighbors even said that they listened after, right, But it was just like one single scream.

So most likely is my theory is it was going to it would probably be a single hit, which would give the scream, and then after that it would have been strangulation.

Yeah. Well, I mean both of both of them alone could have killed her really, right, Like, yeah, the hit and the strangulation. It was both like brutal.

So so on that note, I like, how, like what two weeks ago, I'm like, we've done wage murders and I just need to not do this because I'm like fucking getting bogged down. And then you're like, guess what the worst one yet? Well, not the worst one yet, but one that's really going to weigh on.

Me, And I actually forgot all about that. So yeah, oh and we should have freaking warmed at the meeting that a child was involved in this. But it's basically I'll make sure it's in the description and people probably read that before there is a warning. There is guy dark. It's no surprise here.

It's it's a true crime podcast. I'm I mean, I understand if you are specifically triggered by certain things, but it's a true crime podcast. We do have a warning.

Yeah, you're adults.

We're all adults here.

Ye, so there you go. That is the John Bennet Ramsey murder case and it's shit. Yeah that note, Thanks for listening.

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