I can never forgive Thompson and Venables for the horrendous, calculated, cold blooded murder of James. That's a quote from James Bulger's mother, Denise Fergus. Today's case is one of the most horrific cases we have covered to date. It deals with death, assault, and children. A young two year old boy was lured away from his mother and his life was tragically and maliciously taken. This is the story of James Bulker.
My name's Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and.
Grim, a true crime podcast. The following podcasts and material intended for a mature audience. Listener discretion advised. Happy birthday, Ben, Thank you big old thirty six years old. Around the sun today? Mm hmm, celebrating it right, you're feeling it? Yeah.
I woke up with a release sore back this morning, had to stretch it out, had a good hot shower to help relax those muscles, got moving, felt a little better as the day went on, and it's probably going to repeat itself tomorrow because that's just what happens as you age.
Well. Yeah, I mean, we're also on a road trip and I feel like my body just can't do road trips anymore. My back is just ft.
Fair enough, We've been sitting in the car for at least six hours a day.
At least, But I mean, I feel like, I don't know, there's got to be tip tips and tricks of how to deal.
With that better. Oh, I think so, I'm pretty sure the answer is just yoga. And then the bed that we're sleeping on tonight in this hotel, Like, this hotel is phenomenal. It's basically just an apartment, but it's a bit of a firm mattress and I am a side sleeper, so I need a little bit more softer to kind of like conform to my curves of my body.
You know, how are you going with that? So?
Boy, Yeah, the firmer mattresses don't do so well for me. And yeah, as a result, my back was fucking this morning.
I actually had the best sleep I think in this bed last night, really, out of all the beds that we've slept in. Yeah, yeah, well on this.
Trip, not our own, gotcha.
There's nothing like your own bed, nothing like.
Your own bed. It's there's there's no place like home. As Dorothy said for the Wizard.
Of OZ right exactly.
We have some patrons to thank for signing up and supporting us behind the scenes getting that exclusive content. They had a exclusive episode drop for the end of the month, and this week we have one who signed up, and that one amazing individual is Mackenzie.
Awesome.
Thank you so much Mackenzie. For McKenzie and supporting us means a lot.
It sure does.
Now the murder of James Bulger. This is a rough, rough case and I'm warning everyone now this deals with children, various forms of assaults. It is heavy. It has been on our case for a long time to cover.
On our list. Yeah what did I say on our case? Oh?
Sorry, on our list. It has been a case on our list to cover for a long time, and now is the time. So here we are.
It's been on there a long time. But when we've been putting off because it's it's going to be a doozy and I don't even know much about it.
It's one that it's up there with some of the worst cases we have ever covered. So you're going to walk away with a fairly heavy heart after this one.
Oh boy, what a good way to end the vacation. Thank you, Ben.
Sorry, well, are you are you ready to dive in? Oh, we should say actually, since we are in a road trip right now before we do dive in our audio on, this may sound a bit different because we are, like we already said, in a hotel room right now, we have our road trip podcasting here with us. It's a different microphone, different setup to try and muffle some of the echoes. We have the pillows from our bed built up around us at the moment to try and give
us somewhat of a studio sound. So it might sound different, but we'll be right back to our regular sounding episodes next next week.
Yeah.
So with that said, now, are you ready to give into this episode? Okay?
Now? Or never? So let's do it?
Okay? Well. On the sixteenth of March in nineteen ninety in Kirby, England, a baby boy named James Patrick Bulger entered the world, bringing immense joy to his parents, Ralph and Denise. The new parents had previously experienced the heartache of losing a previous daughter who was still born. Now James was a beacon of hope and happiness for the growing family. James was a happy little boy who was blessed with bright blue eyes and a mop of light
brown hair. He exuded a very cheerful demeanor, constantly bringing smiles and laughter to his parents face. At twenty five years old, Denise showered her son with constant affection, and she watched over him with extremely watchful eyes like a hawk. She had, unfortunately with a stillborn birth before, lost one Chad at one point, and was not prepared to be losing another.
That's really hard.
However, tragedy would lurk around the corner. On what would seem like a routine trip to some shops just before James's third birthday.
Oh gosh.
On the Friday afternoon on the twelfth of February in nineteen ninety three, Denise took her son James for a shopping excursion at Bootle Strand shopping Center. As the day went on, Denise stepped into ar Tim's butcher's shop for her final errand of the day, and it was here that her attention was momentarily diverted away from her son, James,
who was at her side. Tragically, in this fleeting moment of distraction, it proved to be long enough for James to vanish into thin air panic quickly ensued as Denise realized that her son was no longer there, no longer by her side, she couldn't find him. She quickly quickly rushed outside the shop, frantically scanning the surroundings, hoping that she would see her son and the nightmare would end
in a simple rush of panic and nothing more. Unfortunately, as the seconds ticked by, and no matter how hard she looked, she still could not find James anywhere.
Oh gosh, that is just brutal, that feeling. I couldn't imagine.
I can't imagine either, And for her reality began to sink in. It was her worst nightmare that was unfolding right before her eyes. Her son was gone.
Yeah, and he was not even three years old.
Yeah, just about to turn three. Gosh, with no sign of James. The authorities who were summoned to the scene after the they were after the shopping center security team as well. They were like, can you guys get out here help us. You know the layout of the land, let's band together see if we can find him.
Well, yeah, you would think, because you would think he wouldn't be far right.
Like he's one would think.
Yeah, probably within the shopping center.
So that's what they did. They focused on looking through the shopping center right away, and unfortunately, neither the authorities or the security team were able to locate them locate James. With the investigation now beginning, Denise provided a detailed description of her son's attire at the time of the disappearance. He was wearing a blue jacket with a hood, silver
tracksuit pants, and white trainer shoes. The description was immediately passed along to everyone, anyone who would listen, anyone in the surrounding area, be it authorities or be at public civilians, be it shop owners, anyone who would listen, who's around. The description was past. The seconds Denise first felt in the moment of James's disappearance began turning into hours, and by four PM, an officer involved in the search began
consoling the absolutely distraught mother while the others continued the search. Finally, the first break in the investigation came when the authorities and security personnel tirelessly poured all through the collected CCTV footage from the shopping center. While going through the different angles from different cameras covering several different shops or hallways,
whatever it be, they eventually spotted James. He was seen leaving the butcher shop, in fact, only moments before Denise was seen exiting the butcher shop frantically looking for him, and the footage captured a very heart wrenching moment when Denise, you know, is exactly doing that, panicked looking around hoping to find her son.
Well, it's a complete nightmare for.
Her exactly, and she is oblivion to where he is. And in the cameras it shows that he's venturing to the upper floor, trailing behind two older preteen boys, with her standing there on the floor none the wiser.
Oh okay, so was like heading back into the mall with these boys.
In the mall, but heading up to the second floor. Okay. The grainy images from the CCTV revealed the last moment of James before disappearing with the two older boys. One of the boys was holding James's hand, leading him towards the exit, their path directed towards Leeds Liverpool Canal.
Huh Okay.
It would be Sunday, February fourteenth, nineteen ninety three, Valentine's Day. The day dawned with James now missing for two heart wrenching days. Both police and James's family had exhausted every avenue of their desperate search efforts. Patrol cars had cruised the streets, their loud speakers pleading for end in Press conferences had been held urging the two boys spotted in the Straw shopping center to come forward, and a relentless man hunt had scoured the nearby canals, which was where
they were rass headed, and the wastelands. However, any flicker of hope for a joyful reunion was about to be extinguished. A breathless young boy burst through the doors in Walton Lane Police station with grim news A body had been discovered on the railway tracks a mere one hundred and fifty yards from the station's rear entrance. One unfolded necks was a horror that put a pit in the stomach
of the entire nation. The police were confronted with the grim reality of a murder investigation, faced with a daunting task of tracking down two young boys involved in the chilling events, because right now they stood over the gruesome remains of the dis east two year old James Bulger.
No, why, why.
Well, I can't just spill it all right now? We got a story to tell here.
I am aware of that, but what the actual fuck?
Yeah, his remains were in rough shape as well, which we will get into later. But being on the train tracks, he was run over by a train and his body was severed.
Oh shit, yes, okay, brutal.
So Following the horrible and tragic news of James's murder, emotions within the Liverpool community reached a boiling point along the bank near where his body was discovered. An outpouring of grief took form in it took the form of hundreds of flowers being laid in tribute to the young life that was lost. Among them, chillingly was a bouquet placed by someone who was actually who would actually later
be idea as one of James's own murderers. Oh yeah, kind of almost disgusting, almost soiling the entire tribute itself, really right, But still, regardless of this dark piece finding its way in the memorial, the sea of flowers stood in James's name, which is kind of We just covered a case on Patreon where an individual offered condolences to a family when he in fact was the one who did the killing, so it's very similar in this instant that the perpetrator is the one doing this act of
quote kindness if you will, to the family who's lost a loved one.
Well, I mean, I think like it's not uncommon for at funerals for investigators to go if the person who died was murdered, right, because chances are they maybe knew their murderer or the murderer is there in attendance at the funeral exactly, So beyond disturbing.
Yeah, so they're there for not only of course paying respect, but investigative purposes as well. Yeah, they could even be watching people's faces and their reaction to the memorial, like why is that person not crying? Why is that person crying as much as they're crying, like things like that, looking.
For those cues or who's here and why would they be here kind of thing.
And yeah, yet one hundred percent. Now, as the community grieved, the authorities were hard working at the case, trying to make any lead that they could to figure anything out. With only the grainy images from the CCTV cameras capturing James's subduction, the police were left with very little to do.
Determined though, to track down the two older boys seen leading him away from the shopping center, though, they began attempting to enhance the footage to hopefully, in any way, shape or form, discern the two and come up with an identity. Thankfully, the community rally behind the authorities and gave anything they could as far as information, you know, what they had seen or heard on you know, anything,
basically whatever they could do to help make an arrest. Unfortunately, this turned out one instance, on Tuesday, February sixteenth, due to information that was passed on to police, they made an arrest. But unfortunately, like I said, this turned out to be a false lead, and it was an innocent boy, someone who had given some information, be it false or whether they mistook identity, whatever the situation, it was unfortunately an innocent individual. He was not one of the individuals
seen on the footage. However, with the community so wound tight over this incident, and I mean understandably so, and the witness and there was witnesses who saw the arrest, people began to talk and draw on conclusions. So this is actually an innocent boy who is not involved whatsoever. But the community now ceases kid as someone who was arrested and he must be the one who who did something was responsible just.
Being like spread like wild wildfire, and then.
It became a witch hunt of sort, with an angry public wanting to seek retribution for James and the innocent boy, who is now set free from the police after being found innocent, had to leave his home with his family for fear of their own safety.
Oh okay, that is not okay though, no.
No, need, it's not. It's an unfortunate situation and it's not something super important to the story, but I did want to keep it in here to drive home the importance of like the moral of this. Yeah, it's a classic two rights don't make a wrong if they if they stayed in their home, they very well could have turned out to be two innocent young boys who could have lost their life in this story. But they fled
for their own safety and thankfully they remained safe. But it's unreasonab that it's unreasonable.
I mean, it makes it does make sense, but it doesn't make sense. And I'm almost kind of thinking to the police, maybe, you know, I should have communicated something in a better way of sorts because that But what do they do?
I guess, well, I mean, yeah, you can only hold someone for so long, Right, they have no evidence to hold this kid, so he they let him free, Then what do you do?
And people just took took the rumor and ran kind of exactly.
Even if you do a press conference, you can't have a press conference with cameras and news sources, like as someone is walking out the door. You've got to get fact straight. You got to set stuff up like it takes time.
Yeah, that's too bad though.
Yeah, So anyways, I wanted to drive that moral home that the two wrongs thing don't make a right, so it don't take like, don't take these things into your own hands. You know, the law generally speaking, anyways, not always as we know in this show, generally speaking, will at least do its best to try and make those rights.
But anyways, I digress. So while this was all going on, a woman seemed to recognize the grainy figures from the footage that was released, and she recognized them as Robert Thompson and John Venables, known as two young troublemakers in the area. Now, quick check of the school registry would actually provide a very solid alibi for the two, right, Like if they're in school, their attendance is there, then how could they have been the ones at the mall right?
Unfortunately this confirmed their absence from class that very same day when James had vanished.
Oh boy, they.
Were not at school. So it was on Thursday, February eighteenth. The police decided they needed to act quickly on this new information. Undercover officers in playing clothes and unmarked cars were dispatched to arrest both the boys. Because they learned from that first incident, they wanted to keep this as quiet as point.
Okay, they learned from that. That's good. Yes, that's something you can only ever hope for.
Yeah, so they wanted to keep it quieter than last time. What if it's a mistake, even if it's not, you want to make sure that you you deal with this properly and that it doesn't explode into something more.
Well, yeah, what's the saying innocent until proven guilty?
Exactly? So. Robert Thompson was a ten year old boy. He was with his mom and two or sorry, he lives lived with his mom and two younger brothers. Now interestingly enough, which I and me play some insight into Robert's upbringing and behavior. His four older brothers had all been taken into foster care. So he had lived with you know, his two younger brothers, but he had four older ones. They don't live with him anymore. Foster care
sort of situation, right, So might provide some insight. And there's a lot of psychology stuff behind this case that people talk about, but we're not diving into that, but just a little tidbit for food for thought. So upon arrival for Robert Thompson's arrest, the police quickly noted the proximity of his house and just how close it was
to the scene where James's body was found. Rather close. Now, John Venables was also ten years old, and he came from a family with divorced parents since he was only three years old when his parents would ultimately that from then on share joint custody of him and his two siblings. When police arrived to arrest him, he had appeared at the top of the staircase before the officers. They were immediately taken aback. Here he stood staring down, you know, to the officers as they looked up to him, a
possible killer. He was only ten years old and was very unusually small and timid looking for his age. The police are making eye contact with what could be a murderer, Yeah.
Which would not be what they normally are expecting. Definitely, not someone who did something like that.
This small child could potentially be responsible for this, yeight.
Yeah.
And the officer's mind though, it immediately became because of this seeing this, this individual, they're looking at this, like I said, already child, Yeah, they became it became increasingly evident to them basically at this little ten year old boy that they were staring at, I mean now in handcuffs and in their custody, couldn't possibly be the one responsible for what had happened to James. These two boys that they have in custody, how could they be responsible? Right?
Well? Ten? Yeah, ten years old is very young.
Yeah. So even when they had these two in custody, they were actually still pressing for answers from the public and trying to get more information. They were certain that there must be two older boys out there that they've mistaken these two for, and that they're actually looking for other individuals. But still they're doing their due diligence and they're looking into these two and where they were, and you know, of course what people had said or the tips.
Or whatever, right, So, yeah, because you think, just off the top of my head that you would be thinking the they would be at least fourteen, like fifteen or sixteen or something and all, not ten.
Yeah. No, these aren't even teenagers. Yeah, they're not even thirteen. They're not even twelve, they're not eleven, they're ten. They've just entered enter double digit numbers.
Yeah, it's like a preteen.
Yeah, barely barely a preteen really. So, while dismissing the boys as potential murderers, Superintended and Intendered Intendant Albert Kirby was still ear to question both of them. He and every other single officer involved was convinced that they were looking, as I mentioned, for older teens, but still they pressed forward. On Thursday, February eighteenth, the interview with the two boys
began the same day of their arrest. Thompson found himself at Walton Lane Police Station, while Venables was taken to Liverpool's Lower Lane Police station. Both boys underwent the process at providing blood, hair and fingernail samples. With this process, the police ventured into uncharted territory regarding both questions and investigations, since no one had ever interviewed potential child murder suspects before.
Many of their tactics are tailored to adults and how their psychology works, but with children, everything is different, and it left investigators stumped as to how they should really approach the situation.
Well, yeah, because you're almost thinking too, you probably have to have like parents consent on so much too. I wouldn't even know how that would work.
Actually, well, I mean there's certain things like that. I don't think consent really matters, because I mean, this is an investigation potential murder. Like rights only go so far no matter what your age is, right, Like, if if you're a murder suspect, it's not like, well, you can't talk to my child. It's my child, I'll discipline as what I mean, that's not how it's going to go on a murder investigation, right I guess.
So, yeah, just the thought of them taking your kid though, you.
Know, yeah, no fair enough, But I mean that goes with adults. Hey that's my that's my twenty year old, eight years old boy, Like you can't do he's innocent? Yeah, sure he is, Grandma, So it's the same sort of situation. Rights only go so far when you commit a crime, so true. But one thing that they really needed to do though, and this was the biggest part of it.
Whatever they did, they needed to ensure that it was clear that the boys comprehended the gravity of their statements to police, and they understood the distinctions between truth and falsehood, you know, right or wrong. That was the biggest thing, ensuring that they understand this, Like adults understand this concept rather easily, of course, aside from like someone struggling with mental health or other issues that prevent certain cognitive understandings.
But children, on the other hand, don't necessarily know this so much.
Right, They're still learning it.
They're still learning it, their brains are still developing, right. So this was the first and foremost thing that officers needed to ensure that occurred. They began by administering very specific questions that were designed to ascertain if these boys did in fact understand the important piece of the puzzle, like do you understand how significant this is? Do you understand right? Wrong? All of that now. Both boys passed this questioning, and it paved the way for the interrogation
to finally begin. Accompanied by their mothers and legal representation, both boys faced the police questioning with varying degrees of composure, Venables displayed his youth with hysterical and was gripped quite a bit by fear. Understandably, you're being interrogated by officers for potential murder, right, and he was expressing like a lot of fear about the prospect of going to jail.
So, I mean I understand that, like at these ten well, yeah, because I'm just thinking, if they did do something bad, would a ten year old really be able to keep would they really you know, hide it or hold it in?
Well. In contrast, Thompson remained controlled and composed through the whole ordeal. Oh shit, yes, oh, which is very surprising and almost scary for someone of that age. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean many adults struggle through this sort of stuff. I've seen many adults in in interrogation videos lose their composure and lose it rather fast too. Where in this situation, no, he held himself together.
Okay, that is a bit alarming to me.
He's terrifying.
Yeah.
So during the interviews, Venables admitted to being in the Vicinity on the day that James disappeared, but omitted any mention of the stround shopping center, which is where he went missing and the footage was taken from. Eventually, though, Thompson disclosed their presence at that shopping mall and provided
authorities with detailed descriptions of James's attire. So there was a detailed description that was released by James's mother trying, you know, like missing child, Here's what he's wearing.
Right. Yeah.
However, police were very taken aback by his intimate knowledge of James's clothing, Like, I don't know to what details he was able to give, but mutt more than what was released to the public.
Oh okay, Yeah.
This was an extremely significant piece and it suggested prolonged contact with James. So before long, Thompson would ultimately confess that he and Venables had indeed taken James Bulger away from the shopping center. They were the two individuals seen on that CCTV footage leading him away.
And Thompson was the one that was hysterical too, right, you said.
Hold on, I got a double check. No Venables was Thompson was the one who means i'mcom coal collective.
Oh okay, okay.
So the truth, basically though, was now beginning to come out. And it didn't take long for the two boys to begin to actually turn on each other and start playing the blame game a bit. They were each shifting responsibility onto the other and obscuring the facts and what their involvement really was. Now. Thompson's testimony underwent five distinct alterations
over the course of two days of relentless questioning. However, it was a seemingly innocuous question from Venables about if you can recover fingerprints off skin that set a very significant alarm bell for investigators.
That is a question and a half. Hey, yeah, oh my gosh, that would make it I feel like if you were in this scenario and you were the kid asked that like, that would just make the like hairs on the back of your neck.
Right one, Why is he asking exactly like he's asked, like he knows something, He's hiding something. There's crucial information that's going on here. Why is he gonna ask, can you recover fingerprints off someone's skin?
Yeah? Because you may not know that. He could have just googled that at home.
Yeah, just kidding, I'm kidding.
That's a terrible joke. That is very alarming.
Your joke or what he said the question, how about both kidding?
Yes?
Anyways, So as the interrogation went on, the police began to notice a troubling pattern in Thompson's behavior. Whenever James was mentioned, his anxiety seemed to manifest in subtle physical cues, such as shuffling his legs a bit. More so, it seemed, you know, just the mention of James's name it made him very uncomfortable or nervous, almost as if bringing up some vivid memories or potentially even PTSD.
So that's what I was thinking.
So there's some alarming red flags going off with both these boys. By lunchtime on February nineteenth, Thompson finally confessed that the two of them indeed made their way to the railway tracks with James. It was a moment that I am sure investigators will never forget because in this instance, Thompson even impersonated James pleading and crying for his mother as they brought him to the tracks.
Gosh, okay, I cannot imagine being in the room watching this ten year old imitate a two year old.
Child who's terrified, screaming for his mom. And you know that some bloody shit.
Happened next, it would just be it would be so mind blowing. It would be a case that just once in a you know, blue like it would never happen again.
I really hope it fucking won't, that's for sure. So yeah, it was an impersonation that was so disturbing authorities. It sends shivers down their spines, and it's like doing the same for me. So I totally understand. And meanwhile, nearing one pm, Venables found himself alone with his parents in the interrogation room and reaching a breaking point under the weight of guilt, he actually tearfully confessed to his involvement in James's murder. They were unaware that police were tentatively
listening to every word. You're an interrogation room. When will people understand you're not alone?
Yeah, well, I mean I get that the boy wouldn't understand, yeah, for sure, but the parents, hey, yeah.
So he admitted fully to his involvement in James's murder.
But maybe the parents would have, you know. Later confessed that, yeah, I.
Know, I'm not saying I'm not saying they wouldn't, but it's just there's so many cases out there when it's like people are like acting different or talking different when the police are not in the room. It's just like you are in a station. You are being monitored. Yeah, I don't care if you cannot see the equipment it is there.
Just there's just that thing about being in a closed room and a closed door. You know, you just think you're safe in a way, and.
Police use that to their advantage. Guaranteed, guaranteed. So it was with this revelation that the authorities were able to confront Thompson because it was Venables, who you know, was the one who said this week. They go over to Thompson and despite his steadfast denial of guilt in James's death, the police believed they now had a mass submission sufficient evidence against both of them. So even though they brought this to Thompson, he's like, yeah, I don't know, you know,
well I didn't do it. I don't know what he's talking about. They're like, yeah, okay, sure, we still have enough evidence. We're going for this.
Still just hold and strong.
Yeah.
Wow.
So the two boys they initially thought could have not been the ones to do this horrific crime, now they had enough evidence to indeed confirm they were responsible. And on Saturday, February twentieth, nineteen ninety three, the boys were officially informally charged with the abduction and murder of James Bulger, who, let me once again repeat it, he was two and Thompson and Venables were ten.
Wow, I mean, you feel sick about all of it, but like I don't want I almost feel them being ten takes away from James's death, you know, but really that is like the main thing, the main it's all sad, but that's the main brutal outcome of.
This one percent is Yeah, if anything, I honestly think the fact that they are ten makes it worse to me, because it's like, how can these two ten year.
Olds even think of doing something like that?
Yes, yeah, so, don't get me wrong, Like, my heart is fucking broken for James, but it breaks even more to think that his life was taken by two ten year olds, because at that age, you're supposed to be innocent. You're supposed to be happy, you're supposed to like, you know.
Yeah, you're supposed to be like playing, you know, making forts in the woods and shit.
Yeah, and so one innocent life was taken by two other supposedly innocent lives, which makes it all the worse.
It does. Yeah, but I'm just what I'm trying to say is like, just because they're ten, I don't want to It almost seems like it takes away from what happened to poor little James.
And yeah, or we haven't even really got into what actually happened to James or are.
We going to get into that a bit?
Yes, okay, well bear with me here, We're we're getting to the trial. So during their initial appearance, around five hundred protesters formed as an angry mob and gathered outside
the courtroom. I mean, underscoring the immense controversy and high tempers, you know, surrounding this whole case and the intensity of public outrage even targeted the parents of the accused, and as a result, they had to relocate to different parts of the country and were provided with new identities under the Witness Protection Program due to death threats from vigilantes.
Oh man, well, I mean it's not unexpected from what they did to that other boy, right, Yeah.
So basically, yeah, they're like they're blaming the parents, right because they're ten. They're ten, Yeah, like you raised this, you did this, Like what the fuck. So yeah. Now. The trial commenced on November one, nineteen ninety three, and was conducted as an adult trial, despite the boy's young age of ok now at the time, being eleven years old. As they walked to.
The courtroom, I was wondering how they're going to deal with this.
Yes, they conducted it as an adult trial. Both Thompson and Venables denied the charges of murder, abduction and attempted abduction. So the attempted abduction charge came from a related incident excuse me that very same day at the very same shopping center, because Thompson Invenables had attempted to lead away another two year old boy but were thwarted by the boy's mother.
Seriously, Yes, so.
They tried once, were unsuccessful, and tried again, and god.
James, oh gosh.
And who knows they potentially could have tried with others but were not caught or successful as well. Wow, yes, so this was very clearly premeditated.
Yep.
Seated in full view of the court on raised chairs of wo which both boys could actually see, You're kidding. They were accompanied by two social workers and guards as the story unfolded. As it went Thompson invenables had set out with the intention of abducting a young boy, ultimately targeting James. They led him to the nearby train tracks, where they callously beat him and laid him down on the tracks before weighing his head down with rubble, hoping
to stage his death as an accident on the train tracks. Tragically, James's body was severed by a passing train after they left the scene. His dismembered remains were eventually discovered by a group of children two days later. During the trial, a forensic pathologist provided crucial testimony affirming that James had
died before being struck by the train. This revelation added a very chilling layer of what could have transpired before the train even arrived, and the you know, already horrifying.
Yeah, I mean I was going to ask that, but I was like, do I also want to know? Huh? Not?
Really? Yeah, if I'm being fair, I kind of omitted searching up Much of the details known, but even still not many of the details are.
Known, which is probably a good thing. Yes, I mean, for like James and James's family.
Right, yes, definitely. However, I do have some more details regarding it to share with you. Police had also suspected or they had suspicions of a sexual assault aspect to this, and it was fueled by the fact that James's shoes, socks, pants, and underwear had been removed. The pathologist's report was read out in court and it revealed an additional, very disturbing detail.
James's foreskin had also been forcibly being pulled back, which for some young boys may not be a natural thing to occur at such a young age.
Holy shit, you're an oh okay really.
When questioned about this aspect of the attack by detectives and a child psychiatrist named Eileen Wizard, Tom and Inventibles did not provide any details.
What the actual fuck? Huh okay?
So leading him to the tracks, they assaulted him in many manners, beat him, tortured him, held him down with rubble on the tracks in hopes of staging an accident. After they left, he had died of the result of what they did to him, and then his remains were run over by a train and he was found two days later.
And I'm sure that they went back after that to see, like what the potentially because I'm trying to figure out, like my brain just going a mile minute, Like what the fuck they're like why, Like, why the hell are they doing this? I don't know, but it has to I feel like it has to be some sort of like curiosity thing which is beyond disturbing. So I bet you anything that they went back after to like.
See they could have There is one thing I have in here that may provide some insight to that. But we'll touch on it here in a little.
Bit, Okay.
So, Thompson and Venables were considered by the court to be capable of quote mischievous discretion, meaning an ability to act with criminal intent, as they were mature enough to understand that they were doing something seriously wrong, hence, you know, being tried as adults. Thompson was considered to have taken the leading role in the abduction process, though it was Venables who had apparently initiated the idea of taking James
to the railway track. Venables later described the heartbreaking part of the story on how James seemed to like him and trust him, holding his hand and allowing him to even pick him up on the wandering journey to the tracks, which would ultimately become his own murderer scene.
Oh my gosh, okay, I just can't get rid of these fucking visuals in my mind.
Out I know, I can like literally fucking see James reaching up for his hand.
Like a little two year old baby. Really. Yeah.
Oh so, the pathologist spent thirty three minutes in the courtroom outlying the injury sustained by James, including extensive brain damage and hemorrhaging. There were also many injuries to his legs, which had been inflicted after he was stripped from the waist down. It seems as though before the two boys had pinned him down to be run out by the train. That's when, you know, of course, we had already mentioned beating, abuse,
torture had occurred. There was also a lot of evidence to suggest that much of this, you know, we just don't know the true extend. We really don't.
Well.
Yeah, So, as a results of the trial, the two boys were found guilty of James Bulger's murder at the Preston Court on the twenty fourth of November in nineteen ninety three, becoming the youngest convicted murderers of the twentieth century.
Oh you know, and the mom was probably sitting in there right, Yes, yes she was. Is I mean, like we're here listening about this, and like, you know, it's so disturbing, but I just can't even imagine being that boy's mom.
Can you imagine learning the stuff that that child went through? Your child, your little toy. Yeah, and it is one hundred percent not her fault because you can hold on here because you can never never have one hundred percent attention on your child. Never. And I know someone in her situation would have these tendencies to blame themselves. I know because it's a natural instinct. Well, if only I
watched one percent, not her fault, definitely not. These two fucking douche canoes of children were watching for the moment, Yeah, fucking looked away.
They were there on a mission, they were.
And she could have watched in that moment. They would have struck it another.
Moment well, And the thing is too, they would have gotten away kind of with it a little bit easier because I don't even think anyone would would see this little boy with these two ten year olds and any alarm would go off because they're probably thinking, like, oh, it's their siblings or something, right exactly, because if it was reversed, and it was adults with this little boy.
You know, some people might notice or like see that they were upset a little bit more, but not with two ten year olds.
Well, there was even a situation. I kind of omitted this one, but I told you they were kind of headed out of them all to the canal sort of situation. There was apparently a woman who had witnessed the two boys with James, and James had tripped or fallen or they pushed him or something and he was crying and she didn't report this. Who's gonna think to fucking Yeah, that's probably their little brother right.
Now or cousin or something.
Yeah, the mom will take care of that. Like they're right there, they're fine.
Yeah, So your mind would never ever.
Go to not in a million motherfucking years, No, never, No. So Judge, mister Justice Morland, love the fucking name for a judge, Mister just Morland, told Thompson and Venables that they had committed a crime of quote unparalleled evil and barbarity. In my judgment, your conduct was both cunning and very wicked. So Judge Morland sentenced them to be determined by Her
Majesty's pleasure, I'm not exactly certain what that means. I'm pretty sure that's going to like the Queen because they're in England, right, so it's probably going to you know, the monarch of some sort with a recommendation that they should be kept in her in custody for quote very very many years to come, recommending a minimum term of eight years.
Oh gosh, because oh, I hadn't even thought about that. They're so fucking young.
Yes, they're being tried, they're being tried as adults in an adult courtroom, but they are still children. You cannot sentence them like an adult. You cannot.
Oh my gosh, they're probably already out.
Well, there was some discrepancies and how to actually come down with justice on a serving term, and there it went up I think, to one point with the recommendation of being minimum of twelve years, but eventually, like through like controversies and debates and stuff, it came back down to the original eight. But of course there was a lot of controversy surrounding this case because of the young age of these kids and how this court presiding played out.
Well, they did a very adult task, really though, they did. I mean, they should be tried that way, if they're going to do something that bad.
Well, I mean, honestly, not even a fucking adult should do that. But yeah, I know what you mean, one hundred percent. But at the closing of this trial, the judge lifted reporting restrictions and allowed the names of the killers to be released, saying, and this goes along the whole lines of the controversy thing. But I won one hundred percent agree with the judge saying this quote. I did this because the public interest overrode the interest of
the defense. There was a need for an informed public debate on crimes committed by young children. So he's using this as an educational platform for not only the judicial system, but also the public as well, which phenomenal. I love that.
Yeah, No, that's really good.
Yeah, and yeah, he was right though for years this case has been a very hot topic of debate regarding how everything unfolded. And yeah, I kind of already said that. So now, on June twenty second of two thousand and one, having served their eight years, both Thompson and Venables were released. Both were given new identities and moved to different parts of the country to maintain their own safety. Holy fuck, An injunction prevents the press from publishing any details about
the two killers New lives. On the twenty third of July twenty ten, Venables, aged twenty seven, was jailed once again after admitting his guilt to downloading and distributing indecent images of children, so child pornography. And I said, there's a piece that may paint some insight onto why there it is?
Oh what the fuck? Yeah, holy shit, And they're just fucking out of jail now, Well they're gonna oh so.
Ha, are you good? No, I told you this is a fucking rough case.
Because that's the problem. They're so young, so they're going to get out and they're clearly especially I don't know about the other boy, but he definitely did not get rehabilitated.
Yeah, and they're just.
Going to complete being like a complete garbage bag of a human.
Yeah.
Awesome. And we don't even get to know who the fuck they are? Correct that that is just not okay.
I somewhat agree, but I somewhat don't agree. Like I see it, but I don't know if I with it, I understand, but fuck it's hard, Like I don't know, I don't know. I see both sides of this coin, I really fucking do. And it's so hard to discern which would be the better side, because I mean, these these two kids had a fucking horrible thing. Yes, they did a very as you put it, like a very
adult act, right, Yeah, but they were kids. If anyone's going to be rehabilitated, it's someone like this, that's true.
But clearly the one especially did not RISCT.
So how do you discern that you have to take a risk at some point with letting them potentially, Like, I don't know, and I don't know what that risk would be. I'm not educated enough. I'm not someone in the position in power to make that call.
Well, I mean you'd only hope, too, that there was some sort of like something that followed their new names that made it so they couldn't work with kids or something.
Yeah. No, there's definitely should be some fucking lines in the sand. I agree. You don't just be like, yeah, I enjoy your new fucking life, yeah, a new identity.
And may become like a teacher or something.
Yeah. No, No, you're going to be fucking working very far away from kids. We're going to be checking up on you every so often, and.
You would only hope, but I you don't know for sure.
But that means we could go fucking many episodes onto how the fuck that could play out. I see why they were charged, and I see why they served an eight year sentence. I see why they were given new names. I see why they were given out to live a new life. But I see why people are very mad about it. I see why they shouldn't. I see it all I do, And you can't have the best of both worlds. You just cannot, I do, Okay.
I think if they were given given a little bit more time than eight years, it would be easier to swallow, Like it would be easier for that for knowing that they get a new name, because eight years isn't really that much wrong. It's not for someone to you know, like get rehabilitated. So I feel like if they would have gotten you know, a normal kind of sentence, like even twenty five years, say, right, like kind of the normal fair enough that after that amount of time, you know,
maybe they could be changed. But eight years, I just I can't really see it.
There's so many factors to consider in this. But anyways, onto Thompson. Though since his release in two thousand and one. He has kept a very low profile and has done his best to maintain his anonymity. There we go. He came close to one incident, actually meeting James's mother, Denise in two thousand and four. She sought him out and she managed to track him down. However, she was paralyzed with anger and hatred and was unable to confront him.
Unable to confront one of the men who murdered her two year old child, James Bulker.
Oh, that's really sad because that just sort of shows it's like her life going forward, you know, like it doesn't seem like it's good. How would it really be? Though? Yeah, Oh, that is so sad.
So the sheer brutality of the sadistic killing perpetrated by Thompson and Venables has surpassed any expectations of what two primary school children, except what they were, could ever be capable of. The word evil has since become synonymous with their actions and their names. That is the story of the murder of James Bulger.
Well, that is a brutal story.
Yeah, not one that I enjoyed researching.
No, gosh, I don't. I don't even know if I would have been able to research that one. Gosh, that is horrible, horrible, and I'm still I'm still literally on the fact that they are only eighteen when they go out. That is still kind of a child in a sense. They still so much learning stuff. They needed to be in way longer than that, in my opinion.
Well, technically they probably would have been nineteenth they were eleven, but I don't know. It all depends on like when the months fell and you know, but so, yeah, there could have been time served from being in custody. Who knows what?
Yeah, gosh, and there's, like you said, so much that we probably don't even know or never will know. I actually am surprised. How would they even go on? Like just knowing what they did is just no, I really don't.
One of them clearly has some very disturbing tendencies to then come out of prison and have child pornography. Wow. Yeah, I yeah, no, I don't want to have that conversation. Never mind, how are you doing?
I don't know. I mean, I knew a little bit about this case. I didn't know a lot of the details. But yeah, it is just so it's so devastating. It's just such a it's just so unnecessary and such a waste.
And yeah, yeah, well I will end it on one little note. Uh, James's parents, after James was killed, they had another child together and they I believe it was his middle name was was James. They did name their their other son after their older brother.
I was wondering that. I almost asked, but you almost think, like, gosh, the anxiety they must have, you know, towards this other this other kid too, right, Yeah, for sure, gosh, because how do you even go Florida after you've kind of lost to like it would just be you would be worried, sick. I mean, I'm sure you already are, but even to more more of an extent.
Yeah, no, you you're one percent. Right. Well, we're it's late. We're probably gonna go go to bed now, and definitely not. If not, I'm not any sleep. That's most likely our night. So hopefully you somewhat enjoyed this episode. It was a very heavy one. It was one of those ones that we had to do. We had to tell James's story. Yeah, and it sat on our shelf for a long time with that daunting task of covering it.
It does get recommended a lot this one.
It does.
And then I just wanted to say too, just because we are on the road, we aren't videoing this one.
Oh right, yeah, so this this one will not be on YouTube. This is a strictly audio one. Yeah, and we're a little bit behind with posting some video podcasting, so those will be going up here in the coming week or so, so just watch out for those. Go down to the description. You can find YouTube, you can find Instagram. You can find we have two YouTube channels, one where you can watch the podcast in video form except like Nicole said, not this one, and another where
we dov logs and stuff about our lifestyle. There's also Patreon. We have a website. It's all there if you want to sign up check any of it out. All the descripts are down below.
Awesome. Yeah yeah, you need you need to have something like a ice cream or something, some sort of a little something to make your night a little better.
I think I just need to like walk out into the middle of a field somewhere and just scream, just screw the top, scream at nothing and everything all at once at this world.
Yes, yeah, well well done.
Yeah, Okay, Well I'm going to go do that.
Yeah, thanks so much for listening everyone.
Yeah, until next time, stay wicked.