Sometimes in the world of killers, the idea that they can get away with their crimes gets the best of them. Some can't help but return to the scene of the crime. Others keep mementos from their victims stored in their homes, and others taunt investigators by leaving cryptic clues or messages. In the nineteen eighties, Florida would find itself home to a crime that boasted such messages, and it would be one that would go down in the history books as
one of the strangest unsolved murders in American history. This is the case known as the Liquid Matthew Murders.
My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and.
Grim, a true crime podcast.
Following mature audience listener discretion, Welcome back to Wicked and Graham, Yes, welcome.
What do you think of that intro? Captivating? It was has your attention?
Our intro's always get my attention. But that just means we're doing it right.
That's true. We're doing it right, doing it right, And I'm sorry, that's really terrible about us.
Right before this, we were literally just singing, we are family, if you were.
We were just making up our own renditions. So here we are again. Yeah, you know, it's just never a null moment in this tiny home. Yeah. So yeah, the case today is an unsolved one, and I'm guaranteeing you now it's going to piss Nicole off.
Yeah, apparently that's just what's going down today.
To piss you off. I'm slapping money on it right now.
I'm really looking forward to this. Yet, I felt like I wanted to be pissed the fuck off today.
I wanted to piss you off today. That was my goal with this one. Oh my gosh, this case seems really interesting to me. There's certain things about it which I can't say yet because we're going to get into it. There's certain things about it that are frustrating, aggravating, entertaining, and interesting all in the same boat.
And we're going down to Florida again.
We are going down to Florida again.
And also I guess just wait, the last one went to Florida. I think that was our Patreon. Was it a Florida man? That's Patreon?
Was it a Patreon one? I think?
So?
Okay, thanks, so well, we are going to be going to Florida again. Here I'll touch on that here shortly, but I do also want to give a quick shout out to Patreon and our patron's over there. So we always have patrons who sign up every week for Patreon join us over there, and we have a bunch more people who signed up this week. So this week we have Alison Rabiro. She she told me I was gonna pronounce her name wrong, so we'll see. So I'm gonna try one more time just to make sure Alison or
Ra Biro whoa? I was like, should a roll v R? And she's like the first one, So I think I think I might have got it in one of those tries. Yeah, I probably that sounds pretty good. Allison's probably laughing her ass off right now. Sorry, Alison, appreciate you helping us out and how to say your name. So Alison signed up. We also have Rosie, Joseph Stayton, Megan Groves shout out to Megan friend Local, and kimber.
Long right on this week it is I Like It.
And over on Hatreon. This week we also had everyone do a little bit of a vote a vote I want to tell us about that.
Well, just basically trying to let people choose our next case. Well, it's not gonna be our next one, because the next one we already have started our research process, but like maybe one after that or one after that, I don't know, but very soon.
In the next few weeks.
And yeah, we got recommendations and then we kind of picked the top recommendations and then we had a vote on those.
And out of that vote, the top case was Maddie Clifton. I was I wasn't going to actually say, but I thought, maybe you're not screw it, let's say it. So Patreon selected the case of Maddie Clifton going to be coming up in the next few weeks. So if you like that case, you know that case was.
I haven't looked recently at how the voting ended up being.
Was it closely? Maddie was a clear clear winner out of the top three, So.
And I need to google that when I'm not even sure what it is.
That's another one that I looked at either. Yeah, so there's a lot of cases out there, and for us, I mean, we're researching all the time, they kind of blurred together sometimes so Starry, we do know this case, it's just not possibly.
But then we also did realize that we're not quite as as true crime fanatics as we thought we were.
Oh that's true one percent. Now you guys out there are way more into this. I'm not into it, Like we're just as into it. You're way more knowledgeable than Yeah. We we do our research on these cases, and it's like, crazy cool. We learnt a lot where you guys are like, yeah, we knew all that already. So yeah, that's cool. Though, that's good. There is actually also something crazy cool that happened this week in the Great White Norse. The Great White Norse, we had a a wild encounter on our
doorstep here. It was the.
Cutest, one of the cutest things I've ever witnessed in my entire life.
It was pretty adorable. Yeah, so out our front door, just across like the our walkway to our entrance whatever, on the other side of our fence that we have for our dog, we have our quad, our four wheeler stored there for the winter, and our dogs just staring at it. Yeah, she's a little hunter.
She she likes to to make animals feel uncomfortable.
And I was like, right away, I'm like, there's probably a mouse starting to make a home something in that quad.
This is going to be fun, which isn't good. It could cause some damage, Oh it can.
Especially with the chew and wires or something. Yeah, but it was far worse than I'm out good because it was a weasel yea, and the weasel could do it Ferret, well, Ferret is a large weasel basically, yeah, but a little white weasel. These weasels could do way more damage than the mouse.
So yeah, what I don't know, just how you're describing it is so funny. But anyway, I'm going to take over because you're just sing.
Pausey Well, I was waiting for you to jump in. I just feel like I'm just telling the whole story.
So rips after the squad just she'll sit there for days just staring at the quad with the weasel in there, right, And so we're like, hey, we're gonna go out there and try to get this weasel out. But first it just like at one moment popped Where did it pop out from under the seat?
Kind of right, It was right of the steering column, right where the steering goes down by the gas tank. There's a little gap there, and it popped its head out.
There, just this tiny, little white weasel and it was like and it was the cutest shit I've ever seen in my life.
Yeah, it did it like four times, popped its head out, squeak, gone yepped his head squeak, just like telling Ripley off, being like fuck you, and then gone yeah, like it's hilarious.
I can't believe that it would stick up for itself to like this. I mean, Rip's on a huge dog, but still she would.
Have did to be fair though, to be fair, you're all about it, to be fair, be fair. Weasels are mean, they will fight your fucking well.
No, you kind of made me afraid of it. So then when we're trying to get out of the quad, I was like, shit, like.
Oh no, they will take off, but they will also stand their ground. Yeah you know what I mean.
We kind of had it surrounded, so then I stepped back and we did end up being able to get out of the quad. But yeah, so Rip would have killed that thing in a hearty Oh yeah.
She would have shredded it, but that weasel would have fought back. It wouldn't have fought for long, but it would have fought back. But that was an encounter and a half.
That was Yeah, that was interesting little face with this little yeah, so freaking adorable. My gosh, I kind of wanted to keep it.
No, No, could you imagine having that in a tiny home?
Oh I don't think it would last in here. No one of our key year rip would kill it, or.
Me or you just being annoyed. Unless you imagine just going to bed at nights a little thing pops its head out of the blankets. Gone, well, that's ourady counter. We just want to share that story with you guys, because I thought it was funny.
Yeah, it was really really cute.
Should we get to the podcast? We digress a little bit here, I think, so let's let's go all right, so as off. Apparently you are going to be pissed off. As we mentioned though, we're going to Florida. We talked about different stuff with Florida before. It's a state known around the world for many different things and many different reasons. As we have mentioned interesting headlines Florida Man for example,
right yep. Now, Florida also just so happens to be home of this very strange case known as the liquid Matthew murders. Okay, okay, any idea why it would be called the liquid Matthew Murder.
I've already been kind of wondering. I don't know if I'm going to go there, because like what happens if I say something really fucked up?
Fair enough? I just realized I forgot that.
Oh yeah, may look at all those SIPs he could have already had.
I just got to catch up. I guess liquid what Sorry, Matthew Liquid Matthew Murder. Okay, So this story takes us back forty years into nineteen eighty three. Florida residents across the state were beginning to wake up as the sun rose, and they found themselves with a mystery almost directly lifted from the pages of a Sherlock Holmes book, placed upon them. Everyone you know, started their day the sun rising, getting
ready for work. But early in that morning, two joggers out of highly in Miami were out for their morning jog, probably living a much healthier lifestyle than I ever will.
It's always the joggers or the dog walkers, man, I know, right, being out those early risers, this just makes me out want to be an early riser.
Yeah. So they were doing their thing. It was out on December sixth of nineteen eighty three. Now while their feet hit the pavement, which eat with each step, they eventually led them to find a man laying face down in an almost empty parking lot. Now, once in a while, people have such a fun evening at the next morning, they wake up in fairly peculiar places.
To be fair, right, I can't see that's ever happened to me.
I've never woken up in a parking lot. Well, given this is Florida, with such extravagant titles with the Florida Man sort of thing, right, a parking lot doesn't seem like it's too far fetched to be waking up after a bender.
Right.
However, as a two joggers approached the motionless man laying face down, it became increasingly clear that he wasn't just passed out drunk. He was most undoubtedly dead deceased. Yes, the two joggers called the discovery of the body into the police and found themselves the center of a murder investigation. Dang.
When investigators arrived on the scene, it would be Sergeant David Miller who would be piecing together what would become one of the most confusing and yet striking simple investigations in Florida's history. At the scene, barriers were immediately set up to help contain and prevent crime scene contamination. Then the investigation officially began. They searched for blood, footprints, clues, all shapes and sizes, whether it was a murder weapon,
or anything that could lead them the right path. They took crime scene photos and interviewed the two joggers who found the man. It was immediately clear that the man had been strangled to death oh jeez, and an estimated time death was also able to be determined fairly quickly. It was likely that he passed away and was killed the evening before and laid there on the cold ground to be discovered in the light of the new day
all night, hey yeap. Now, being that as death most likely took place in the dark, investigators were not really able to find anyone who was seeing any suspicious activity. Right, it's dark. You can't see shit. Yep. There's not many people around because they're all at home now sleeping, And despite their searching, there wasn't much immediate apparent evidence as far as things went either. Thankfully, though, due to the victim's belongings, they did learn his name. His name was
I'm gonna butcher this. I'm sorry, but I'm gonna t hi my best here. Francisco Patino Griterrez a sailor from Colombia. Now, Francisco was on a cargo ship he had been working, and they recently docked in Panama, and Francisco had found himself at the wrong end of a pair of hands. Clearly who had strangled him and left him there in the parking lot. But the question is why what had happened? We know he was strangled, we know he came in from a boat, but how did he get there in between?
And who had a motive to kill him? Exactly?
Yeah, I was expecting his name to be like Matthew or something. Just wait, now, this title makes zero sense to me. So I'm I'm okay, I'm want to listen.
We're getting there, Okay, don't you worry. Okay. So these were the sort of questions that Sergeant David Miller and his team of investigators were trying to find out now. Unfortunately for them, though, the investigation would come to a screeching halt when a bright flash of light across the sky, followed by a deep rumble of thunder echoing above, and
then all hell broke loose came upon them like a thunderstorm. Yeap, oh shit, massive rains beyond suddenly pouring down and practically flooded the crime scene, making it nearly impossible to physically work on the scene any longer, and the investigators were forced to go home for the rest.
Of the year. Oh, I've never really thought of something like that happening.
Yeah, it could wash a whole shit ton away. Yeah. I do remember watching CSI back in the day and that happened in an episode. Actually, yeah, that rings the bell too. Yeah, And I think that's why you'll see a lot of modern day crime scene investigation photos. They often have tents set up in areas where at all possible. But even still, it's not foolproof, right.
Yeah, even if there was like a torrential downpour, it would still be wrecking stuff.
Yeah. Well, imagine a crime happens in the middle of a rain storm or it's just normally raining. It's going to wash away blood immediately. That blood's not staying there on the sidewalk, it's getting washed away.
You'd have nothing left. Yeah, wow, I mean that would be some lock really on the killers side.
No kidding, So investigators return the next morning. There was little hope of finding any evidence that it survived the sudden storm, but they were hopeful. They went out there, they crossed their fingers and they began searching. Now they were going through the wet crime scene to see what may have survived, hoping that something, anything, weathered the storm. And it didn't actually take them too long to find something. Oh the strangest of places.
Okay, what did they find?
Well, it was only meters away and I mean meters away from where Francisco's body had been discovered where they found the clue. This wasn't just any clue though. It wasn't something that someone would unintentionally leave behind, not a cigarette butt or a footprint or a hair. This was intentionally left and it sparked Sergeant David Miller on a search for clues and what would quickly turn into the crime scene like in WHICHPT. Florida would never have seen before.
This is what he found. He found on taped to the back of a no dumping sign was a note. Oh my gosh, something that shouldn't have survived a rainstorm either. However, whoever had left the note had sealed it in a plastic bag, almost like they had seen the storm coming, like the third for it beforehand.
They looked at the weather network before almost like that.
Yeah, he looks up. They find this note tagged to the back of a sign weather Proof ready to go, waiting for him.
Such bullshit though, like murderers and like killing someone, it's not a game, like people when they leave shit like that intentionally, like they're just making it a game, which is kind of just makes you feel a little gross.
Yeah, I do want you to remember that, specifically what you just said, okay.
Oh, like because it's going to be a grosser.
I just want you to remember that. Awesome okay. Now. The note was only slightly damp and certainly in good enough condition for the investigators to open up and read the typed up message left on the crime scene photo Urst crime scene note. Sorry, so what's it say? What do we got here? Well to read what is said? I want to bring in Jacko. Whoa.
Once you're back on the track, you'll travel in night. So prepare your old self for a terrible fright now. Oh, the motive is clear and the victim is too. You've got all the answers just follow the.
Clues, so it's like a real life scavender hunt pretty much.
Yikes.
Usually scavender hunts are like fun. This is like not fun.
Well, yeah, jaws were Jeff definitely dropped when they were reading this note. They're just like what the fuck? Yeah? And whoever left it literally seemed to be taunting investigators with this like cryptic riddle. And now serial killers do, like who do leave these clues? They do taunt or tease authorities. That's kind of their what they're getting after, Like it is a game, like it is a scavenger
hunt that lights them up. Yeah. The guys that do this, they believe they are smarter than authorities, and so it's their way of showing like you can't catch me. Mm hmm. But was this a taunting message left behind by Francisco's murderer or was it maybe just a hoax left behind by someone during the rainstorm who caught wind of the investigation and wanted to leave a fun riddle at the investigator's expense. No, that's kind of the question they were
I think it was the murderer, You think so for sure? Well, the investigators weren't one hundred percent. They weren't sure, but they certainly were in a hurry to find out. M hmmm. They didn't have much physical evidence from the night before, but they did have something that would help them figure out if this note was real, if it was posted during the rainstorm in their absence or not. They had crime scene photos, so they went back in the photos. They took shit and looked at the photos.
That wasn't there. This person was probably just sitting there fucking car watching.
I hate that the note was there. Oh okay, the note was there in their crime shift here. I'm already just like overreacting. Ben said, I'm going to be mad. Is this apart where I'm meant? The note was legitimately there at the time of the murder. Okay, So investigators to find some answers. They needed to piece it together. So thinking back, once you're back on track, you'll travel in night. What could it mean? Now back on the boat, Well,
I'm not so sure. I don't. I can't get inside Sergeant David Miller's head here, but in about an hour or so he did figure it out. An impressive feet for a note that's as cryptic as it is, potentially left behind by a killer who clearly imagined themselves with
a fucking real life from Riddler from Batman. Yeah, but he had a feeling that if he followed this clues, he would find another piece of the puzzle, and his gut proved be right when he found a second note only a few minutes down the road from where the first note had been found.
Okay, so I assumed it would be kind of further away, but okay, Well.
He came across a speed limit sign and found another plastic bag taped to the back of it. Oh and I mean you can guess what was inside that plastic bag, of course the note, right, Yeah, now back on track. I'm assuming must have meant on the road. So I'm thinking someone traveling a certain direction, a certain flow of maybe a highway or something, right, okay, And that sign would certainly be visible in the reflective night from vehicles passing by in headlights. So that's kind of where I'm
thinking he got this from. But I'm not certain how he deciphered to go this direction and find it on the sign he figured it out. I don't know what was going on in his head, but that's what happened.
Well, It's lucky that they had someone that's good at riddles on this case.
Right within an hour he had a figure.
Out, like that's really good.
That is really good. So he's he's doing awesome. Yeah, shout out to him now. The message this time only raised more questions rather than reassuring the investigators that they were on the right track. Now this note again bringing in Jacko. This note read this.
Yes, Matthew is dead, but his body not felt those brains would Matt's because his body did melt for Billy through Matt in some hot boiling oil to confuse the police for the mystery they did toil.
Huh.
Yeah, I'm confused as shit now and you should be like, he did they play two names in there, two names Matthew and Billy.
Billy and Matthew. Matthew and Billy.
Yes, and that is not the name of the friggin person that is dead.
Correct, So by Matthew could potentially be a whole other victim that they've yet to find. And how does this tie Francisco into it?
Huh that's terrifying almost, because then it's like, brig how many victims do we have here?
What is this exactly? Huh.
And this guy's freaking crazy like psycho?
And what did you say earlier that I said, I don't want you to forget what you said? Should I forgot? I knew you forgot it? What the hell did I say? You're basically saying that these guys playing a fucking sick.
Game and it's not Oh yeah, yeah, it makes you feel feel sick or make you feel gross gross, made you feel gross?
Yeah?
I did remember you had helped me, good job. I should have a notebook that they're just right fentle me to remember this.
Yeah, so this is sick, and it seems so bizarre, as if someone was trying, honestly, in my opinion, too hard to be clever with what they're writing, to the point that it didn't make sense anymore if they took the note at face value. Investigators were looking at another victim and his remains may not be so easily found because it sounds like Matthew could very well be in well a liquid state, like because they boiled in oil.
Okay, And that is actually kind of where my head went with that title, And.
I was like, I'm not going to say anything because I don't want to sound like well, I mean, a lot of us have seen Breaking Bad. We know that people you know, certain assiles, certain compounds and bodies, and yeah, so Bringing Bad's a good show. It is a good show now this time, investigators, though regarding the clues, at a loss. They weren't able to unravel these cryptic messages in this riddle and what they were talking about. They
didn't have any answers. They couldn't come up with anything, and the case was darker and stranger as the more they thought about this. They potentially had a serial killer out there.
Yeah, it seemed very random. Really, Oh yeah, it was not what I was expecting. It doesn't make any sense.
It doesn't. So investigators worked trying to figure it out, trying to make sense of it for days, and they were unable to make any headway. They managed to figure out. You know, the first one may said quick, but the second one baffled.
Well, it's almost it's probably a fear too, that they're just waiting for a Matthew to show up or something deceased or missing or something right like, that's terrifying.
Well, and they're also going against a clock, because who knows that if this individual is going to strike again, and they're going to get another note with another body, right, Yeah, who's to say we clearly have someone. As you said, it's a sick game like this is just not a good situation. Yeah. Well, it was almost a week later that Sergeant David Miller made a call. He decided they were going to release the second note to the public
and enlist their help in solving the cryptic crime. Okay, so he sent it out to be published in the local press. When they waited, they sat back and said, let's hope someone might have the insight they need to crack this code. Someone could know something. Yeah. Well, and even still, you might have someone who might even be able to look at it a different perspective and come
up with an idea. Yeah. Now, the Liquid Matthew case, as it was printed in the press, came to be an overnight sensation, with amateur detectives and sleuths all across the nation putting their minds together to catch the mysterious
murderer and stop them before they could strike again. Yeah, it didn't take long before investigators would receive a phone call from someone who was able to help decipher them note Okay, and the call didn't come from a would be detective or a newspaper puzzle addict either, who was it? The call came from the very person who left the note.
Oh my gosh, you're kidding. My head did not go there. No, not at all. What the frig Because it's like this person is probably thinking this is taking too long. I'm just going to help them so they can buy the next clue and we can move on.
Do you think so?
Huh?
You think that's what's going on? Yeah? Remember how I said you were going to get pissed off?
Yeah? Did I just nail it?
No, you're far from it. Oh, and I'm going to tell you why, and you're about to learn why. I'm going to say you're going to get pissed off. CA I'm ready. The man on the phone told law enforcement that he had seen a copy of the riddle in the public press and wanted to let them know that he had written it along with the first note as well. But that isn't all he had to say. In fact, the man on the phone went as far as actually
giving investigators his full name and his home address. Weird, but why would the person who wrote these notes simply turn himself in as you just said it's weird.
Well, he's probably turning someone in. That's not him.
Oh he was. It was his real name, it was his real address. The man was a leader of a local church youth group, and according to him, the notes had been part of an event that his local church ran every Halloween. The notes reclues for a murder mystery scavenger hunt, meant to send participants through the city to try and solve it for fun, and was actually run by four local churches, not one mysterious mastermind on a murderous rampage.
Oh okay, so this note wasn't even like had anything to do with this person in the parking lot. Then correct, Well the fuck? Wow? Okay, well it's good that they put that out there. Then that's so fucking weird, something they would never have. Oh like what the wasted resources? I'm sorry, but okay, you pissed off. Not as just off as I thought I would be. But that's interesting, like it's almost comical, but not.
Well, the man had claimed he had wrote the clues then knew that the weather might turn worse for the rain in the forecast on Halloween night. Yeah, so we sealed them in plastic bags and tape them to the back of the street sign so they could survive the weather. Now, as it turns out, it's true another storm had struck on Halloween night that year, and since it did occur, the Scavender hunt had been called off early and the participants went home, leaving the leftover notes behind, just.
Left them there. They should probably have gone and like collected them.
No, they were just left behind, taped there and left and they never went back to retrieve them.
And here now they are like clues to a murder.
It seemed. Wow. The notes had been on the back of those signs for months, surviving wind rain in their plastic bags, until the fateful December when a very real murder and alive Francisco just so happened to be fallen victim right beneath. Yeah.
Can you think that they would look pretty weather though? Like you would think they wouldn't look like they were just put there.
So, I don't know. I found that weird. Well, how long does plastics deteriorate? In a month or two? Well, they would be like dusty or dirty rain. It just rained.
I guess, huh, maybe I'll have to test this. You'll come home tomorrow, plastic bags around it around the yard testing well.
Any any sort of weathering that would have occurred. You could have explained it with the rain. Oh, the note is wet. Will it just rained? Yeah? The plastic bag isn't hanging on very well anymore. Will it just rain? The storm kind of washed some of the tape away.
I gotta use some good tape.
It's blowing in the wind. Who knows what could have used good tape? Yeah, I mean this is a whole fetch story as far as the police were concerned, though, So to confirm, investigators called another church and other church leaders in the area as well, and they were actually able to confirm the identity of the caller and his story as well. Huh So that's bizarre. Yeah, it turns out that the notes had absolutely nothing to do with
Francisco's murder. Wow, nothing to do with actually anything really at all, nothing real anyways, But what exactly did that mean for Francisco's murder and investigation?
My gears are really turning here. That's wild.
Well, first, we do know there's no real serial killer on the loose. There's no notes being left behind, right, so it could be just like a one.
Off death, so Matthew is not in danger.
Here, Matthew is not in danger, which is good. So at least no one was leaving behind riddles taunting investigators. But the remaining questions were left why had a real person been murdered and left in this parking lot? Well? To explain why that had happened, the investigators actually didn't have to look very far. Instead of chasing these mysterious cryptic notes, investigators turned to the ship Francisco arrived on
the cargo ship. Yeah had Francisco as they cruised into the country and docked in Panama, or so they initially thought. The truth of the ship was that it had come into American waters and port authorities stormed the ship before we could ever get ashore. They had taken control of it, and people who were on board the ship were led ashore. However, the goods and everything were seas because authorities had good reason to suspect it was part of a drug smuggling scheme.
Oh okay, and while aboard they found eleven pounds or five kilograms of cocaine on the ship. Woh yeah wow. No one on the crew had been arrested yet, like I said, a lot of them were led ashore, and authorities were actually in the process of figuring out which crewmates were involved in the drug smuggling scheme, the whole crime.
A lot of them might not even have known exactly that was what they're caring so they're trying to figure out who's who, who's involved.
Yeah, and in the midst of all this, Francisco got murdered. Huh. So this could have looked like another coincidence at first, but Francisco was still on their list of suspects as far as the drug ring went when he was found dead in that parking lot. Okay, and after the mysterious no part but that aside, his involvement in the drug
smuggling scheme was confirmed. Hmm. So the leading theory was that when the missing shipment of cocaine did not arrive, Francisco was in hot waters with some local drug cartel oh my gosh, and ultimately it cost him his life.
You know. That honestly kind of makes sense too, because lots of times people that are like that, they kind of kill someone I just leave them there like it's just like whatever. They're not even like trying to hide their crime whatsoever. Yeah, but then this note situation just like threw it for a fucking look them on a wild goose chase, so just shit right, Like, yeah, it just delayed the process. It's pretty good that they were still able to like go about finding this out.
Yeah, but and what are the odds of actually having these fucking scavenger hunt notes taped right there by a body? Yeah, and then having a an investigator actually solved the first one too, because he didn't have the steps leading up to it. Oh my gosh.
It's just lucky. And it could have cost them them solving this altogether. Really, Oh, it could have because it took so much time, yeah, away from them searching other paths and other like things that might have happened.
Yeah, one hundred percent. It detracted from him for sure. And then also on top of it, I mean, the crime scene was basically washed away giant storm. But yeah, the goose chase, the false leads, who knows how long it could have delayed and potentially disrupted this entire case.
Yeah, but I'm assuming these people probably still got away with this.
Well. Francisco's case was closed on December nineteenth, nineteen eighty three, only thirteen days after his body was found. But it has forever been tied with the now legendary and infamous, infamous Liquid Matthew murderer case. And though his case was closed or is closed, yes, his killer got away with murder. Wow. Wow, so it is a closed case, but it is technically to this day unsolved.
That's like the biggest piss off, right there. Yep, that they just like got away with this.
Yep. And okay, sorry, was the notes called? Okay?
I just needed to clarify this name situation. Here was the case or the person in those letters was called Matthew, and like he was to be like liquid, So that's why it's like liquid Matthew.
Correct. Okay. Wow, it's a bizarre case. Yeah, this is so bizarre. Okay. I can hear the gears turning.
They're really turning, because I don't think at any moment and time in this case I could have predicted shit of what was going to happen. I know, there's nothing I could have predicted.
In all honesty. If you remove the scavenger hunt notes from this case, the case is ten seconds long.
Yeah, yeah, and it's it's probably a lot like other cases. Yeah, they get away with the shit because drugs are involved and it's scary people.
And yeah, so essentially this individual got away with murder potentially because of the wild goose chase the washed away evidence, but also potentially because they know they're just not going to catch this guy. Who the fuck is it.
I think they would have gotten away with it regardless.
I think so too. Yeah, huh, so that is well now known as a liquid Matthew murder case.
I shouldn't Okay, I'm not laughing in regards to this at all, but I'm just like thinking that the church probably did not continue playing that game in future. That is my That's how I'm ending my thoughts of this case.
I'm assuming that the church did not get charged with any sort of obstruction of justice or anything. Oh I don't think so. I mean, maybe they got charged with fucking littering, who knows. I doubt it. But even still, it's like that could have gone so sour. Yeah, it could have gone because they're lucky they figured this out and have a case still solved within thirteen days.
Well, yeah, they're lucky that the guy decided to put it out to the media, because they just kept like trying to solve this.
Gosh, it could have been like a fucking Zodiac killer situation. Years the road. We're still trying to decipher this shit. Yeah, and here it's just some scavenger hunt put on by someone in a youth group. Yeah.
So it honestly seems like the stars kind of just like aligned so much in this case for me, like that, it just things happened for reasons, and it's lucky they happened.
Oh yeah, and it's it baffles me that it was solved within thirteen days. Yeah, And I also want to draw attention to how fucking ridiculous those clues were. This is for a youth group. What kind of kids are going to be able to solve this shit?
Well? Or should they even be thinking about like a body being boiled?
That too, But it took a professional detective one hour to cipher one clue.
Well yeah, but like we said, said, he doesn't have the backstory or there was probably or he was kind of solving them not in an order, and so makes sense still yeah, but I like, I just think that if he didn't put it out with the media, they would have probably spent months months on this.
I have a feeling it would have been years. Yeah, I have a feeling that if it wasn't put out to media, it would have been one of those things that's going to be sitting on a police officer's desk where the couple guys are working on it, working on it, that going around talking to people. Public doesn't really know about these notes, trying to keep them quiet. Sure, maybe it's getting leaked a little bit here and there, but
general public doesn't see him for the most part. Right, general public hasn't read freaking Zodiac killer's notes, right, or seen them or whatever, not that you can read them, you know what I mean. Yeah, so it would have been probably years, and by the time it even is to the point where these individuals could have read it, they probably fucking don't remember anyways. Yeah.
Wow, just the amount of money that could have cost is unbelievable. But then also someone did did die here, and that's oh, that is terrible.
So sad.
I mean, yeah, his I don't even think. Yeah, his death wouldn't have probably even made the news other than all this crazy shit that happened here, right, I'm sure his death would have Still, it would have been not in like the sense where it's like on a true crime podcasts and stuff what I sort of mean, but yeah, fair enough, super.
Sad, Yeah it is. But I mean, honestly, you find yourself in a bad situation with drugs like that, that's it seems like that's kind of the world. I mean, I don't I don't think anyone deserves to be murdered. Don't get me wrong here. No, however, he's kind of putting himself in that kind of situation. You know, it's unfortunately, it's kind of part of the business. You know.
Yeah, that is just scared. I would just be so scared shitless. Oh yeah, don't do breaking bad shit.
Don't do drugs kids.
Yeah right, that's that's how we're going to end this.
Yeap. So thank you for listening. Hopefully enjoyed that episode. Hopefully it didn't piss you off too much. It didn't pissed the hole off as much as I thought.
Yeah, it didn't actually super piss me off. There was parts of it, but it's just like, like, I think the fuck that should be the saying of this podcast.
I thought you were going to be all like, are you fucking kidding me? We just went through all that for nothing, Like I thought that was going to be your attitude.
Well, if it was years or months, I think my attitude would be like that more so. But it was quite quick, right, Well, I meant.
You having to sit here listen to me talk about it.
Oh no, I enjoy listening to you talk.
I thought you would have gotten ramped up and everything and been like, fuck, now we just start over. And by the way, I did tell you remember that thing you said, and I said, remember that you said, this isn't some sort of sick game. Yeah, oh, it was a game. It was a scavenger hunt. You even said scavenger hunt in fact. Oh shit, So I did predict something then, unknowingly that was exactly what it is. And it was really hard for me to bite my tongue
and keep that quiet. Wow, I'm good. Well, well you said it wasn't, so it was the exact opposite of what you were saying. No, I think I did good. I did well here, you did good. Hopefully you guys did too. If you want to check anything else for our social media website whatever, it's all in the description of this podcast. You can even go down there and find Patreon, and there you can sign up for some
behind the scenes content. Get on our discord server you name it, exclusive episode at the end of the month for all access patron tire.
There you go.
Yeah, Or if you just want to chill out here and listen to this episode next episode, that is cool too. We appreciate you.
Justine, I appreciate you all. So until next week, stay wicked.