The Leaf Killer - Matthew Hoffman

True crime stories often talk about and show brutal cases involving individuals who set out to take their victims down before moving on to the next, and so on and repeating. These horrific stories show murderers and monsters alike, many with the same motive to hurt, to abuse, to mane, and to kill. But we often forget that there are crimes that get committed out there out of brash decisions, out

My name's Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast. The following podcast in your audience, listener discution.

They're not getting in opening this time. No, it happened on Patreon.

Sorry, it happened in the pre show.

It did, so I do have a drink. But you're not getting a next time on Wicked and Great.

Well, lots of times, yeah all have one, or you'll have one, But yeah, we got nothing today, we got nothing.

Which okay, Nicole just brought up a.

Jedious well, I don't know, Okay, there could be some accounts that are listening to this that are just like, no.

But it's a possibility. It's a legitimate possibility.

I think I just blew Ben's mind because.

Before we reveal what it is, those accountants would have listened to the show and would know that it is a legitimate part of the episodes. Uh huh and our brand and Wicked and grim. Yeah, so go ahead lay this wisdom on us.

What did you say, Well, because we had discovered when we were doing our taxes that we can write off our purchased merch for ourselves because like we're basically like a walking billboard.

We're wearing our merch like our uniform sort of thing. Yeah, which blew my mind and I was so excited.

So then as Ben was literally doing his intro, I don't even know what the fuck he said, because I was just going off in my head here. Thanks, but could we not write off alcohol? You know, like, could we some brewskis a year?

Because well, think of it this way. If we open up each if we each open up an alcoholic beverage each episode, Yeah, one episode a week, there's two of us, we could theoretically write off one hundred and four alcoholic beverages per year, not not mentioning how week.

Or like our Patreon episodes, so exactly, I don't know. I think we might be onto something here.

Can we write off booze?

Because you actually can though, because when you're doing your restaurants, right, say you go out with like a client and you have a glass of wine or something, Oh yeah, you then go write that off. So I feel like writing off alcohol is allowed.

But how much?

And I actually do write off alcohol too in another sense because lots of times I'll give out like a bottle of wine when I'm delivering a wedding, so like as a client gift. So we need to talk to our account I think we just solved it yet we can.

But yeah, So that's been our first week is talking about business stuff, taxes, really trying to get the root of all these things because I'm officially doing this now full time. It's it's here, it's you're real, You're a weekend. It's crazy and we haven't killed each other yet.

Yeah, we're going strong. We've done iemasks, spends trying to get me to drink coffee. You know, it's just it's going well.

Yeah, you'll be seeing all this stuff on Patreon if you guys want to sign up. If not, though, that's cool. You guys are here and we appreciate that. But we do have people who have signed up for Patreon that we have to thank we do. And how many people did you say signed up this week?

Think were twelve? Were? They're just like pumping over there. It's awesome.

Twelve people signed up this week, which is incredible, So thank you so much. I'm probably gonna butcher some names we actually do there too. We did, so we have Christine Kennedy, Amanda Shory, Amber Lee, Marie Lafontaine, Timothy Stewart, Laura Aldridge got to go over the next list here Isabella Wall, Cecilia Ink, the cat Ty Colombo, Kyla Sparkman and Jessica Watts. And Jessica Watts actually just won the getaway too.

Yeah, just signed up. That's awesome, so.

Boom that easy. Just sign up for Patreon. You win something, but you've done, You've win.

Okay when first, so well, thank you to all of them that, like, yeah, it just blows our mind that we're getting that much the word over there, so thank you. But it's funny as you're reading the names. I can see in your eyes, like as you're about to approach a hard name, there's a little bit of fear, just like coming out and I'm like, Okay, that last name is gonna be hard.

Yeah, some of them are difficult. It's it's true. And even if you try, and even if you pronounce it correctly, like there's different enunciations something, there's different inflections and different languages and heritage, and you don't know if you're actually.

Getting it right, and some words can literally be pronounced like a few ways. Really yeah, that's yeah, it's basically what you said. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so but you did good. Thank you and thank you to all those people who have signed up.

And our patrons are are awesome. They're getting some cool content behind the scenes. If you want to sign up join them, link is down below in the description of this podcast. If not, you hear that's cool too, So thank you.

We appreciate you either way.

But we also got to talk about fearful. So if you don't know Jacko, who is a part of our podcast and is who are EMC for Halloween week, yep, he is coming out with his own podcast.

Yeah, I don't have we dropped that on here yet.

We dropped another thing was coming.

Oh, this is it.

It's Fearful. Jacko is hosting his own podcast called Fearful, and it's all about paranormal mysteries and just creepy shit.

This is a big deal.

It's dropping on June first three, so coming up soon. You guys can go check out Fearful people over on Patreon again. Kind of get a little bit of heads up on this, and they kind of got a little bit of nose no on what's happening there.

So yeah, very exciting though.

Yeah, lots is happening for the world of Wicked and Grim absolutely Anyways, shall we press forward?

I think so? Yeah, let's do it. Okay, it's gonna be a total surprise since I was thinking about alcohol during your intro.

So didn't listen to it.

At all, hardly. I was very distracted.

Okay, Well, the intro didn't say a whole lot about this episode. What it did say is that it kind of blurs the line between those people who are very much so murderers who go out to murder, okay, and those who commit murders and crime via accident. And I'm not saying accident per se but to self defense or whatever. Something goes south. Right, Oh, so this is gonna be yeah, so it's going to blur the line in between, and I want you guys to decide where exactly this lies.

Interesting, Okay, Okay.

Now I will say right now it's definitely on purpose. But I want to know how much on purpose? That's the question.

Okay.

So this story takes us off or starts us off with an individual by the name of Tina Rose Hermann. Now, Tina was thirty two years old and living in Howard, Ohio. She was described by her friends and family as a loving mother. She that's a single mother, raised her two kids, Sarah Maynard, who was thirteen and Cody Maynard, who was ten. Larry, who was a kid's father, was unfortunately no longer in the relationship with Tina, and you know, things just didn't

Uh oh.

So usually her day started at work near the evening after her kids came home from school. Okay, she greet him they come home from school, maybe even make him a little dinner or something, and then she head off to go punch the clock. Ok So, when she didn't show up, her manager thought it was well, definitely.

Odd at a character.

Yeah, she didn't even hear from her, it's not right. So she tried to call Tina, but she didn't answer her phone. So, being as concerned as she was, this really was out of character, as you said, she decided she was going to call nine one one. So on November tenth, twenty ten, she called and asked for a welfare check on Tina at her home. So it's not like it's a super emergency, but she's definitely concerned. This is aut a character. Can we get a welfare check?

Okay? But I also have to admit, like, well done on the boss there, definitely like realizing right away that there could be an issue and actually going about doing something about it. Like I actually loved that. That's good. That's good.

Yeah, and that plays a very big part in this actually, Okay, how quickly she was to respond. So the police stopped by her home and made their way up to her door. They knocked, but got no response.

No answer. Now the house kiddos should be there.

Well, exactly, the house was quiet. There was no sound of Tina or her kids. Didn't seem like anyone was home, so the police couldn't really do much. They assumed no one was home, maybe she went out of state or something. So they walked back down the driveway, got in their car, and drove away without any information, which I mean rightfully, So it's not like they can storm a house. They don't have a warrant or anything. Right.

Oh, but yeah, you're like, hopefully everything's okay in there.

Yeah, and again they don't have suspicion, right, And I think to do that just enter a home without a warrant, they need suspicion of I'm not sure the exact term, but they need suspicion without a reasonable doubt or something like.

That, like if a window was broken or the door was kind of open, then they probably could, you.

Know, exactly, no search. But yeah, but it was a sealed up house, just like any other down the street, and nothing looked off exactly, so you can't just barge in. So the next day would come around and a missing person report would be filed, but not on Tina. Oddly enough, it was forty one year old Sprang, who just so happened to be Tina's neighbor and close friend. Now, the last time anyone had heard from Stephanie, she was over

Holy shit, what's going on here?

The police were just beginning to get some information together. They were drawing these two connections between Tina to Stephanie and the missing school right when they received a phone call. It was Tina's manager from work again. Okay, well, apparently she wasn't satisfied with the well welfare check the police did on Tina yesterday. Though she was aware they couldn't enter the home without the warr int or anything. She decided she didn't need a warrant to go into the home.

That's true. Yeah, yeah, she's just like make check in as kind of a friend, making sure she's okay.

Exactly now, it is unclear how she exactly got into the home. I have some guesses on a later part here, but it's kind of irrelevant. Regardless, she let herself into the home and when she did, she got inside and was greeted with a gruesome scene. Oh no, and quickly dialed nine one one.

Seriously, so it's Stephanie's the neighbor, right, correct? Did she do some shit? Or maybe Stephanie's in there too, Okay, I'm listening.

Well. On the nine one one call, she informed the police who she was and that she's there regarding Tina, and she was the one who called the day before, and she told them she went to her house to check and inside she found quote blood everywhere.

Oh jeez.

The police rushed to the scene, found a blood bath, but no people, no one alive, and no one dead.

Holy okay. I was also expecting there to be like three or four bodies in there.

No no one huh. So by the door, there was a pool of blood and there was drag marks found heading towards the bedroom.

Oh my gosh.

And then inside the bathroom it looked like a scene right out of a horror movie, as the tub had blood spatters and smears all up the walls and along the tub, and spray marks and flecks across the floor. Even on the toilet right beside the bathtub had flex of blood all around the bowl.

That makes my stomach just sink.

It was immediately clear to investigators what took place in the bathtub dismemberment.

Oh okay, I don't know why I didn't go there, but I had not gone there.

You did. Anytime there's a murder case and there's a bloody bathtub, happens in the bloody bathtub.

Yeah, I'm very aware now. Well, I was just, for some reason, was in a happier mind frame than that.

You're a co host of a true crime podcast.

Yeah, and a barely body dismemberment is blowing my mind.

To day sunshine, lollipops and rainbows.

So yeah. People will sometimes ask how do you cope with having to do these stories? And I'm apparently just an oblivion over here.

Yeah, you block it out, that's how.

Wow.

So yeah, Unfortunately, this was a very real scene, not sunshine and lollipops, and the bathtub was clearly used for dismounting.

Wow.

Yeah. Okay, So by the scene left the house, they were not sure if anyone was going to be left alive as a result, but they were able to figure out a few things as far as how it could have played out. First, there was bags of groceries that were found in the kitchen, but they weren't put away, still just sitting there in the kitchen.

Like someone had just gone shopping, like someone.

Had just come home from shopping. The receipt showed that the purchase was made approximately around noon, so this meant Tina most likely would have come home shortly after doing some shopping and brought the groceries in and before she had a chance to put them away, was interrupted when she had entered her home.

Okay.

Then the bloodstains by the door also suggested someone was assaulted, either as they entered the home or as they were trying to leave.

Right.

They also found the garage door. It wasn't quite working, it was left open partially, and even in the closed position it was open enough for a person to crawl under and enter the home if they wanted to, which is partially why part of the reason why, I'm thinking that that could have been how the boss entered the home if necessary. Okay, but she might have had a key to it's kind of a relevant.

Information, or the back door was unlocked or something.

Yeah, so this is how they presume the perpetrator would have entered.

Okay.

Now, in the garage there was also more blood and Tina's truck was also missing, which meant whoever was responsible for this must have taken the truck away from the.

Scene with the bodies.

I'm imagining most likely with the bodies.

Wow.

Now there was one final thing they found at the crime scene. It was a bag from Walmart. Now, a bag in itself might not seem very conspicuous, but this one had things in it. Tarps. Oh okay, multiple tarps. Investigators then turned to Walmart for a history of their purchases. They didn't have a receipt, but since they didn't have one, they thought, let's look it up in their registry and go do that and they can see what's been purchased.

Hey, that's what I was wondering.

Yeah, so they found footage of a Caucasian mail approximately in his thirties. He was very casual when he's walking through the till, purchasing the items and just walking out of the store on his merried.

Way, good god, with just like tarbs to go murder people.

That's he pretty much had a DIY murder scene kit. Yeah, that he just purchased for.

More more and he's just yeah, just another day, just.

Lotty dotty dot not a big deal whatsoever.

Wow.

And he left a bag behind at what in Walmart?

No?

No, sorry, oh at the crime scene of the crime. Okay, how do you like really?

Yeah? Yeah? Actually, so he really wasn't too concerned about Well, clearly he wasn't. I was gonna say cleaning up, but clearly he fucking wasn't at all. There's like a shit show in there.

Well, I just I don't know. I can see both sides of this. Especially considering you just did something so horrific your mind might be cloud and convoluted situations, it might be hard to keep track of everything. You leave something behind easy enough. Also in that sense, you're going to commit something like this and you can't look after a bag yeah of stuff.

Yeah, I'm going to get away with it. Obviously it was planned right to some degree.

So well, again, that's kind of where I want you guys to figure out on your own. See where you think it lays. If it was planned, if it was premeditated, if it wasn't. Where on that.

Spectator, I mean, if someone's buying shit from Walmart like that, I feel like, okay, no, I'll just listen and then I'll decide.

Okay. Well, it didn't take long for police to be able to take that footage of a rather rather normal looking dude and actually find a name and identify him. Oh wow, his name was Matthew Hoffman and not the infamous BMX legend Matt Hoffman that has like video games out there and stuff. Not that dude.

Okay, Well, because I was like, where I'm a recognizing that name. That's not the same last name that she had, right?

No? No, uh, Tina Herman. Okay, yeah, so Hoffman Herman different close but different. So it was yeah, like I said, Matthew Hoffman. Now, not a lot is known about his early bringing up, his childhood per se, but we are going to touch on him and who he is a little bit here. So we do know that by two thousand and one, at the age of nineteen, Matthew had

Okay, he got what he.

Could, stealing anything that was worth something and was easy to carry out Before he got out of there, he was quick, quiet and left no witnesses, but Matthew was still not quite happy with how it all played out. He later said that he couldn't get the thought of any fingerprints that he could possibly have left behind at the scene out of his mind, and that he came up with his own way to make sure that no one would f in them.

Okay, what on earth did he do?

What do you think? What do you think he would do to ensure that he erases all his fingerprints? That could possibly be in an entire building.

Oh, burned it down.

He returned to the scene of the crime.

That took me way too long to figure out.

And set the complex on fire.

Do you know where my mind went first? Which is so fucked what? As like he removed his fingerprints, That's where it went first, And I was like, no, that's not logical. What else could it be?

Actually that that is logical as long as there's not fingerprints already on file. If he removes his, they can't match him.

Yeah, but that's pretty like that's affecting your way of living.

Not necessarily you just have like burn scars or something like burn the shit and the tips of your fingers.

Yeah, I guess it could work.

Yeah, that's actually not about it. That'd be much.

Easier than burning the place to the ground. Yes, it's only affecting you, yeah, versus everyone in that apartment exactly.

And I mean he did target just the condo he broke into specifically, but however, all sixteen residents met units I guess within this complex were affected.

Absolutely.

The whole thing ended up burning down, and he caused over two million dollars worth of damages.

Holy shit.

Yeah, So he actually wasn't caught, but he did eventually turn himself over to the police and confess his crimes.

Okay, and he was.

Sentenced to eight years in prison, but only served six before he was released and moved to Howard, Ohio.

Okay, Okay, that seems I'm like, I mean, a lot of shit was went down there, which sucks, But like the fact that he was remorseful and turned himself in and then served like a decent amount of time.

Yeah, So I mean there is that there's some consolation prizes there. Yeah. But now in twenty ten, Matthew had just turned thirty and mainly kept to himself. A little bit more on him now. In twenty ten, he first found work as a tree trimmer, but he was rather odd, and by the October of twenty ten he had lost his job and was collecting unemployment benefits. A lot of people really found him odd. In fact, neighbors often saw him out in his garden, lying in his hammock under

Hum At first, it was like, what the fuck's aught about laying your hammock under your trees? That sounds amazing.

No, it's not just laying in your hammock. It's an accumulation of other things, like laying in the hammock and looking up and shooting a squirrel and then eating inside and cooking it.

Yeah, that's something. How did they know for sure that he was cooking it and eating eating it? They disassumed.

I guess when some one's shooting squirrels and taking him inside.

Maybe he didn't like squirrels and he just wanted them dead.

Maybe, but who knows.

Most likely not just playing Devil's ad Forhgate, fair enough, I do that on a regular basis, so it's refreshing for you to play that part.

So something else did happen in October of that year that may have tipped the scales from Matthew, if you want to put it that way, And it was at his girlfriend had left him. Now we're not exactly sure why, but there is a police report out there reportedly that she claimed Matthew was becoming violent and choked her during a domestic incident.

Wow.

So this left Matthew jobless, collecting benefits and needing squirrels all in isolation.

Huh. I mean that sounds pretty rough. I'm not gonna lie.

Yeah. So now this brings us to November fifteenth, twenty ten, five days after Tina had first failed to show up for her scheduled workshift. The police remember that they had actually met Matthew recently on the eleventh fact, when they were investigating Tina's home. He had actually pulled up in his vehicle outside the home.

Really yep, okay.

So as he drove up, deputies noticed him immediately and they asked why he was visiting and what looked like a murder scene basically, and Matthew was rather quick in his feet. He told the officers right then and there that he was there to pick up his girlfriend from work just down the street. Matthew wasn't a suspect, but the officers did question him and press him.

Well, yeah, they.

Asked whose girlfriend was and where she worked, and Matthew was quick again. He told the officers that she worked at a nearby inn, and that he said that he wasn't sure about her last name because they only recently just started dating, pretty new to each other still, but he could tell them her first name though, and her first name was Sarah.

So that's so he's referring to the neighbor. Was that the neighbor's name.

Sorry, her neighbor was Stephanie.

Oh shit, sorry, I'm getting like h's and s's.

And Sarah was. However, the daughter's name. Oh yeah, I wasn't gonna say anything, but you kind of started linking it.

I'll give you that it was the daughter again.

Thirteen Okay, okay, yeah.

This is just getting a little bit more interesting here.

So, believing his story, the officers let him go, which I mean at that time, they have no suspicion of him. He's just some dude driving up by a crime scene. I mean obviously, like any nosy neighbor would probably be doing the same thing. You watch any movie Hollywood, they have like the whole neighborhood standing on the street staring and gawking, right.

And if anything, it's almost kind of like, oh, this guy doesn't realize what happened here. But then someone like me, I'm like, that guy's freaking guilty. He's showing up to the crime the day after it happened.

But you have hindsight. That's that's a big part of exactly right.

Yeah, so they did.

Know something serious was going on. When they drew these lines between it, they realized he was at the scene.

There.

He's now the one scene on CCTV footage purchasing the items found in the home. They also linked the vehicle they saw when he pulled up this crime scene to the one parked outside of Walmart when the purchase were made. So it is confirmed. Okay, so they got a warrant to search his home. When they got there, they were ready and they were prepared to find anything. When they entered the home, they burst in and they found something they weren't expecting.

Okay, what on earth would they not be expecting? I feel like they'd almost be expecting anything.

Well, let me tell you, would you expect this?

Everyone is alive.

When they burst open the door, they found leaves.

What do you mean? Just like a shit ton of leaves everywhere.

There were bags of leaves, loose leaves spread all over the floor like two feet deep, through throughout the house.

Okay, Yeah, I definitely would not have been expecting that. Yeah, there's no way.

It was leaves just everywhere, a shit ton of leaves. It's kind of nice though, No, I mean it was the end of autumn, so I mean leaves were in abundance, which completely makes sense. But why they're scattered in the home.

Like raking them up and bringing them in their house for some decor.

It's beyond decor, but he was. He was raking them up and bringing them into his home.

Really Okay.

So needless to say, though, it was a tactical nightmare for police trying to this. Oh gosh, they didn't know what was in those piles of leaves. Oh man, there could have been drug paraphernalia, say needles, for example. They were afraid that Matthew would actually set traps within the leaves or potentially the bodies.

Of the victims.

Yeah, laying in these.

Where I had gone. Okay, that's terrifying.

Yeah. So they were ready for anything, but they were not ready for that.

No, No, you would not be. Wow. Okay.

So when they entered the home, Matthew was sleeping on his couch in the living room, so they burst in they raid and they take him, and he doesn't really say anything. He just watches the police slowly make their way through his home and try and process what the fuck is going on in this house. Not even when they finally noticed a cabinet pushed up against a door leading to the basement, did he say a word.

Oh gosh, they.

Noticed this cabinet, they moved it aside and it was blocking the access, and they opened the door and they slowly made their way into the basement.

I like, still some serious hope that these this family's alive.

Well, they did find thirteen year old Sarah Maynard downstairs in the basement, tied up to a bed made of leaves, with her hands completely bound in a plastic bag around her waist, almost like it was a diaper. Whoa Sarah when she saw the police went into absolute shock. She began panicking and rambling and telling the police that she was late for school and she had to get to school.

Huh, well, she's just terrified of her fucking mind.

She also told police that Matthew had killed her dog and she was very worried about her dog, which is a portion I have so far left out.

But he did oh Okay, I hate him. I mean he already did.

He later admitted to killing the dog because it wouldn't stop barking.

Wow. Yeah, because you're an asshole. Yeah, that's why I didn't stop barking.

Yes, okay. Oh so Sarah, though, did have suspicions of that, she didn't have any idea of what happened to her mother, brother, or Stephanie. According to Sarah, Matthew had explained that he was waiting for ransom money to come in from her parents, and that he was going to return her home. He'd even promise that she'd be home by Christmas.

Huh okay, so like she like he was basically like abusing her down there.

We'll get into that a little bit, but.

Yes, okay, yes wow.

Matthew, however, wasn't quite as forthcoming to the police when they questioned Sarah. She told him everything, of course, right, but Matthew was lips tight.

This guy is so interesting, how I just like im picturing this person that just is not affected by anything, and just like going through this the motions and the steps and just like like a straight line. And maybe maybe it's very odd.

Things might change in that opinion. Here this is a there's a little bit of different insight to this case, which is why again I want you to kind of draw your opinion on where and the spectrum it lies. Okay, So he didn't say a word during any of the interviews. Only once he pounded his chest with his fists and signaled as something breaking with his hands. He didn't even answer when the police asked him if that meant that his heart was broken. Just silence. But everything did change.

That's lying, though, I feel like you have to I mean maybe there was a few years ago, but like you have to state if something is recording like that.

Do you not no, because I mean you're still talking to police, which is like witness. I don't think so. I don't know. I'd have to look into it.

I feel like you would have to be like full disclosure, but I don't know.

I don't know it's not like this is a you're calling into a phone line or something. This call may be recorded for a company policies.

Sure tell us, and it's recorded like this is obviously recorded by YEA.

So he started talking, and he said that he had the same nightmare for a second time and he needed to talk about it. He said that in his dream, he'd been in a food processing plant and when he'd opened the bag in front of him, it was filled with human body parts. He took that to mean that he had to come clean, so he decided to tell the police what he'd done. He did, however, have one condition. He would tell the police where to find the bodies if they agreed to allow him to escape.

Oh no, but this, I'm okay, this isn't good.

Well, this wasn't going to be a real escape though. Well yeah, his plan was only a cover up of a falsified escape. Here. He was going to pretend to run away so that the police could shoot and kill him.

That's what he wanted, That's what he want.

He's like, just just let me run away and then you can be like, oh no, he's getting away, shoot him and then you can kill me.

Well, so that's almost kind of like a suicide planet.

It is only after that his lawyer would release the information on where the bodies would be found. That's what he wanted.

Huh.

The police, of course didn't agree. They're not going to just kill him at his wish, right, Yeah, and Matthew stopped talking again.

Frag but the lawyer knows where the bodies are.

I don't know if the lawyer does yet or what.

He was going to tell him.

Okay, but it would be only two days later that he changed his mind all over again. Matthew told investigators where to find the bodies under the condition that the prosecution wouldn't press for the death penalty.

Okay. I just have like this terrible thought though, that like he was using food grinder of sorts without people knowing. And now what's been going on for those past four days or whatever.

There's no cannibalism.

Okay, No, you're good, Okay, Okay, Well I guess I mean I'm not doing the case. I'm the only one that.

Exactly that'd be you. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I do find this super interesting though, because Matthew a started with I will tell you where the bodies are if you kill me. Basically, Oh, and now he's like, I'll tell you where the bodies are if you don't kill me.

That's very interesting. He's a lot going on in his head.

He has a lot going on in his head.

Yeah.

So he would then write a four page confession detailing his crimes, but he left out one very important part. According to Matthew, he'd only ever been nice to Sarah. He apparently had gave her a copy of Treasure Island. They'd watch movies together, he'd cook burgers for her, and he'd even fall asleep with her in his arms. His exact words are quote, I would not have hurt her. I could not hurt her. I planned on giving her more and more freedom until she ran away.

Hmm.

Sarah, however, told a very different story. According to her, in the four days that Matthew had had tied her up in the basement, he'd repeatedly sexually assaulted her.

Holy shit.

This claim was backed up by the physical evidence and evaluation on Sarah the abuse on her body.

Wow.

So a charge of rape was added to nine other accounts that Matthew was facing.

What the actual hell, Oh my gosh, I'm like, is he just like delusional? And like, what's happening in his world? Or is he just stretching the truth to make himself seem better and not like a complete ass or more than an ass and disgusting monster.

Well, luckily, Matthew, like I said, did write a four page confession.

Okay, yes he did, so we do.

Have accounts for his side of the story, and by all accounts, it sounds like this is the truth. I'm not trying to sit here and say, oh, it's just his side of the story. No, I think this is is most likely how it played out by the sounds of it.

Yeah.

So, after Matthew was left jobless and single, he went back to his old ways.

Theft right.

According to Matthew, he picked a house at random. That one is up for debate. He found one in the neighborhood that didn't have any other houses too close. In fact, this one was kind of on a block on its own, with kind of forested area around it, so he waited.

Oh man, So.

He had a choice to make. He could either sneak out or he could hide. He knew that if he tried to sneak out, he probably was going to get caught, so he chose to hide. He ran into a bedroom, closed the door and waited. Ideally, whoever it was would come back and pick something up before heading out again. So he sat silently waiting, But then the bedroom door started to open. In walked Tina and the whole situated situation escalated incredibly quickly. Matthew came prepared to defend himself

Ohly shit.

He managed to catch up to her before she got to the front door, and he stabbed her twice in the chest. He then ran back to the first bedroom, stabbed Tina another couple of times, and realized they were both dead.

Well.

Yeah, and I'm not too sure where it is. I avoided researching this part because I love dogs, but somewhere and around here he would have went after the dog with a knife as well.

The dog was barking at this guy. Yes, Okay, first of all, so I'm assuming he was like camped out, kind of like figure out their schedules, right, So he was probably really thinking like no one was going to be home at that time.

That's what he was aiming for. Definitely that.

Okay, this whole thing is freaking terrifying. But it is so unbelievably terrifying to think that someone is just like camping out behind your house, like just watching you.

Yeah.

Oh, I don't know, like that just makes me feel like shit.

Gross.

Yeah. Yeah, like, go check your backyards, but also don't because it's scary.

Go do it, but don't lock your doors.

Oh my gosh. Wow.

Yeah. So, according to Matthew, killing anyone was never part of the plan, and the fact that he now just killed two women put him into a daze. He said, he kept walking around the house trying to figure out what to do, and then he came out with an idea. He took their bodies to the bathroom placed them in the tub.

Wow.

He collected bins from around the house and started dismembering the bodies into pieces.

I I am sorry, but that's really fucked up.

He put their body parts into a bag and started loading them into Tina's truck, which was now in the garage. But during one of these trips, he heard the front door to the house open up the sun. He was not faced with two women this time, but Tina's two.

Children, both kids.

They had both just come home from school and walked in the front door.

And saw Matthew and blood.

Blood. Sarah bolted and managed to make it to her room, but Cody wasn't so lucky. Matthew swung his knife and stabbed Cody in the chest, killing him almost right away, but Matthew didn't stick around to check and see how long he was alive for he was worried that Sarah went to a room and was calling the police with a phone in there, so he came in, bursting and found her there. She wasn't calling for help, and Matthew

Oh brutal. Why could he not kill Sarah though? Do we talk about that later or just like he just.

All he said is that he couldn't.

He couldn't. Huh.

Matthew then came back and bundled Sarah up into the truck, and Sarah had no idea that she was now within a vehicle that contained her completely dismembered family and neighbor shoved inside of bins. All she did know was a man was taking her somewhere and there was nothing she could do about it.

Yeah, this is a lot, it is this is a lot. This is very very disturb and I already have my answer in my head.

So Matthew ended up taking her to his home, led her to the basement, tied her up to the bed before getting back to his work. He knew he had to get rid of the bodies. He thought about driving his truck to the lake and swimming it and swimming ashore from there. So driving it right into the water, letting it set swing your shore. Yeah, but it was November and he was afraid that he wouldn't be able to swim because of the cold. So he thought a bit more and he figured out a place that he

Holy frig Okay, so he's like really thinking this part through now, I guess he is.

So with the bodies hidden, Matthew again reverted back to his old ways. The next evening, he went back to Tina's house ready to burn it to the ground. Oh okay, but that's when he discovered the police had already found the scene.

As he was pulling, he wasn't going to be able to yep.

So when he had talked to police, he was there to burn the house down.

Okay, So he realized that he left shit there that needed to be destroyed. Yeah, the bag or why did he have that bag?

He would have in the process of dismembering the bodies gone to Walmart to get some supplies.

Holy shit. So he literally went to Walmart after yes, and was just like calm as a cucumber. Yes, that's disturbing, Yes, really disturbing.

Yes. So January of twenty eleven, Matthew would have his trial. He pled guilty to all ten charges, three accounts of kidnapping, kidnapping, for abducting the three victims, three accounts of abuse of a corpse, for dismembering the bodies of victims and scattering the remains, and one account of sexual assault regarding Sarah. He was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

Right, and that's.

When the press had dubbed the leaf killer the leaf killer. He was the leaf killer and he will remain in prison till he dies. Okay, So one final little note here. Sarah did move in with her father, Larry, who said that she went back to school and worked very closely with therapists to deal with this tragedy.

Well, yeah, that is some trauma.

Larry also said that regarding Sarah, quote, she is strong and has gotten through this with her faith in God and the love of her family.

Oh my gosh. Okay, that's good. That, oh that she's like doing well. But gosh, just what she's having to deal with.

I imagine that she might be doing well, but I don't think I think this is going to affect her for.

Oh, of course, for her entire life.

Yeah. Yeah, But the conversation I do want to have is do you think he's just a cold blooded murderer? Do you think it's something that just got out of hand an accident and he just covered his tracks. What what do you think? You said? You have your answer?

Oh my gosh, well I do. Okay, So I think that he's a terrible person. I think that he's a criminal for sure, Like he definitely is a criminal. But I do I don't know, because it seems so weird to me, Okay, Like I'm still processing. It seems very weird to me that he saved or he didn't do this to Sarah, but then he did it to the other three. So could he not have easily just have not killed all of them? You know? So that's why I'm kind of like, well, did he intend to murder someone?

He had a hunting knife in his hand. Yeah, right, And when he did have Tina, she was on the bed and he just began assaulting her with that SAP the weapon. Right, if he's going to ensure this doesn't happen or you know, doesn't no one squeals or something, He's not gonna be assaulting her. He's gonna tire up make sure she can't see shit.

Well, because even as you were kind of presenting the story. I was like, there's opportunities for him to like get away, Yes, in that in that scenario there.

In an hour in someone's home. That's a long time.

And you did say that he potentially was abusive to his girlfriend.

Potentially, yes, So.

I don't know, you know, maybe he was going to be escalating to be doing murders and this is this is the time the one maybe.

I I mean, clearly there's definitely some of my undiagnosed mental disorders or something going on there, because he's is not quite there now. There there was reports after searching his home with the search warrent and everything, police did find his freezer which apparently contained squirrels and popsicles. Wow, so that was his diet apparently. And there is also a lot of allegations around this case regarding him being very what's the best way to say, sexualizing trees.

Okay, so that.

The leaves, for example, in his home, the tree that he hid the remains in apparently was a tree that he was very fond of. I mean, he climbed it often, most likely, especially if he knew all the way up and it was hollow in there in the specific tree. So there is allegations of sexualizing trees.

Interesting, I never heard of that.

I mean to each the row, and I'm not going to knock someone for something like that, right, but yeah, I will knock you if you go ahead and like start murdering people.

Not illegal to sexualize trees, yeah, I mean lots of people like wood. Right, Holy shit, you went there. Oh my gosh. But yeah, to say he's like a cold blooded murder my gosh.

I mean he is definitely a cold blooded murderer for sure, yes, But is he intentionally a cold blooded murderer? Is the question?

Man? Okay, okay, I'm going to say.

No, no, he's not.

Yeah, that's what I'm going with I think for all, But that just destroys me to say that.

So then here's my question that I want to beg you with this one. What was he going to do with Sarah?

I know that's like there's just so, but like you said, so he has some mental health stuff that he's dealing with. Maybe he just like saw her and was just like had some sort of like connection, was like, oh my gosh, like this this this girl's like an angel or whatever, like I need to save her.

He sexually abused her. Oh fuck, he was charged with with sexual abuse.

Oh my gosh, I don't know. Okay, no this, Oh okay, you are asking.

Me, I'm asking you impossible questions.

Possible questions. This guy is literally like the biggest douce crew ever. Like he's discussing he's a nasty motherfucker.

Because I do think he's not intentionally a cold blooded killer, but I think he got way in over his head and he's just going to roll with those punches, which turns him into one after the fact.

Well, the whole Sarah thing, Well, this would be easier to answer kind of if he had murdered her as well. But the fact that he kept her is just continuing the abuse.

Is it is horrible because put it this way, if he keeps her in his basement, there's one of two things that's going to happen here. Either he continues to keep her and continues to abuse her, or he's going to continue to abuse her and eventually she will die as a result. Yeah, those are the two options.

But then didn't he say that she was going to let her go at some point? Well that's what he said, he claimed.

Yeah, Now, I'm not not not to throw the idea out the window that she could escape, that's definitely a possibility. But before that happens, those are the only two things that are going to occur. Is either she's going to continue being abused or continue being abused until he kills her or she dies as a result. Yeah, so he is letting this happen, letting this continuing continue to happen, knowingly that there makes him a cold blooded criminal murderer in my opinion.

Yeah, like he I don't think if he didn't get caught, I don't think Sarah would have gotten out of that situation alive. Right, So then, how remorseful was he for murdering the other three and when he was literally going to be doing that to Sarah. Yeah, like he did turn into a cold blooded murderer.

Yeah, I think with the other three, Yeah, you can make the argument of he panicked, he snapped, and he didn't know what to do, and he dismembered and hit them, and sure, okay, not that it's okay to do that, it's still fucking horrific.

He went next level.

Yeah, However, the whole idea of snapping or not knowing or going into a haze as he put it. Sure, you can make that argument for three. You can no longer make that argument for Sarah because now you have four days of sitting on this yeah and continuing Yeah, that's that's the part that makes it worse.

Well, I mean, I'm glad that he is in jail and that he's going to be in there for the rest of his life, because I mean he's already I've been in and out of jail previously to this, right, and now his crime has just like escalated to the nines. So that is kind of where he needs to be.

So what happens if he got away with us, if he did have Sarah still, do you think he would have done it again to someone else? Yep, I think he would have. Yeah, if he got to burn the house down, then they never did find the Walmart bag and never got to put anything together, I think he would have done it.

Again, Oh yeah, because I think that this was just like almost I don't want to say natural, but like a progression of his like his criminal.

Activity, because that's what he did. He broke into a place looking for things, left, burned it down. He tried to do the exact same thing here, only this time the people came home, and he would have killed them, taken one of them and gotten away with it, and he would have liked it, and he would have done it again.

Yeah. Yeah, it would have just become like almost a new fetish or obsession for him.

Yep, which is where I think it's just escalating. It's escalating. He's letting it escalate. He's enjoying the escalation. He's he's a cold blooded killer in my opinion. Yeah, we just so happened to be just at the start of it that he was caught.

Yeah. Brutal. Wow, that is That is a brutal case and one that I have never heard.

Yeah, So I've been researching that one for a few weeks now.

It kind of seems like it was a dozy it research.

And it was very difficult to try and tell the story not as Matthew's story, which a lot of articles do talk about that out there, and I mean there's there's a lot of information on Matthew, so it's kind of hard not for it to be his story. But yeah, I just want to highlight his victims more so Cody, Sarah, Tina, and Stephanie. Yeah. Fuck Matthew.

Yeah, totally fuck him for sure.

Well, thank you guys for being here, thank you for sticking through this whole episode. And yeah, hopefully there's not someone camped out your backyard for the next three days. Why that's creepy, just bugging you, but we do appreciate you. If you want to check out our social media links, they're all in the description of this podcast below. We have Facebook, Instagram, you name it, Patreon, YouTube. You can go ahead and give us a rating that means a

Though, stay wicked.