Sometimes in life you're wronged by those who are closest to you, or the ones you would least expect. In the case of the Krim Family murders, it comes from a source they would least expect, from a person they led in their home and their children loved. But all it took was one day for this person to be pushed too far, and it all ended in an absolute bloodbath. This is the story of the Krim Family murders.
My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and Grim.
A true crime podcast. The following podcast material intended for a mature audience. Listener discretion advice. How do I look? Do I look good enough for the podcast? Right now?
I think so?
I think so.
Yeah. I look at your fancy glasses. Finally, after speak talking about this for like probably two years, I bet you fair enough.
Fair enough. But I am now thirty six years old and I officially have dork vision.
Oh my goodness.
What.
No, I think glasses can be like. I feel like they can be pretty like. I don't know.
I don't see stylish.
It's dorkish. I think it's almost like sophisticated.
No, I have nothing against glasses. Absolutely nothing, but it's just fun to call it dork vision. I guess it's not like I'm actually going to go up to someone wearing glasses. Are you nice glasses? Dork? No, It's just something to just joke about because I'm wearing them. You know.
I also got new glasses, but I already wore glasses, so I don't think this anyone would ever notice.
So you're still a door.
Probably more so because my uh prescription actually went up like big time.
Yeah you needed this, Yeah, so where's me? I mean, I needed it too, but my prescription's pretty low.
I was getting like little headaches and I kind of think it was to do with that, just because I was kind of straining. But also I am apparently so sore of my glasses all the time, and I maybe wore them, Like what would you say, Well, I have five percent of the day. Oh, yes, five percent, because they wear them when I'm working.
Barely half the time. You're halfway through working, you're like, oh, I need my glasses.
No, No, when I'm on the computer, I'm always wearing them. A larky but anyway, so yeah, now I'm trying to wear them, you know, a lot more and it's actually helping.
That's good.
Imagine that.
That's good. I didn't have the glasses or you didn't have your new glasses for a two hundredth episode, which would have been nice dimly lit, you know, brewery reading the laptop was not the easyest thing.
But hey, it was still wicked and you did good.
Yeah, it was wicked and it was.
Grim, yeah, very much.
So if you guys haven't listened to it, it did come out. It's our two hundredth episode. The video will be coming out on YouTube here in the coming days. We got to do a bit of catch up on that first. But yeah, with this two hundredth episode occurring, the live version of it, this officially marks us doing an episode every Tuesday and every Friday, So we are officially two times a week here over in Wicked and Grim.
Now yeah, wild wild, And I just wanted to say too, it's like a thank you to everyone that came to our live We were pretty blown away. It was a bit, i don't know, intimidating, yeah, but it was also just like anxiety. It just like warmed your heart a little though terrifying. Oh my gosh, because I remember at one point, I can't remember. I think we were getting door price tickets ready or something, and you were like you were
like make sure you take like a look around or whatever. Yeah, because it was like really cool, really really cool.
Was a packed house. People were there to support us, to listen to the show, and then we also had our Patreon live stream going, which had a bunch of people in that too. Our audio for that was a little bit terrible, so we've got to figure out a solution for that in the future.
But yeah, well, and I think we might try to do a couple of live Patreon shows too at some point. Yeah, I think so in the coming months.
Yeah, we had fun doing that, so I think, yeah, well we'll start doing some more live Patreon only stuff. Yeah, because why not.
Well, yeah, because we're always we're we want to include you in these live events locally and stuff. But then it'd be neat to have one just specific and you know all of our attentions to.
That and exactly we've done some in the past, but I think we need to do more regularly.
Yeah, I think it'd be fun. So you're ready for this case today, Well, don't we have some patrons today?
Oh? Right? We were just talking about Patreon, So my bad.
We once Nicole has her shit together and Ben doesn't. Apparently I should just note too, I'm supposed to be doing this episode, but we're we're doing my episode on Friday. Now. It's like ninety five percent done.
Well right when we hit record on this, You're like, I got like an hour left right now, search, but mine's done, so I might as well just do mine and then yours can be for a Friday.
Yeah, there we go.
So what is happening?
It is happening. Yeah, yeah, and it's a doozy of a case, which yours kind of sounds like it is as well.
Yeah, well I do know someone out there, Larissa is specifically I wouldn't say looking forward to this case, but has cursed you out on social media or that. I know.
I meant to respond to that, but yeah, Larissa, it is that one. So prepare yourself if you can.
But yeah, anyways, we got to thank some Patreon subscribers, So thank you to Denise, Samantha Gutsky, Haley, I'm probably gonna butcher your name, but I'm gonna give it my best shot here, Hailey Sinkwicks and zach Rice nice, thank you very much for sending to Patreon.
We appreciate that so freaking much. We do.
You guys are incredible, even though I might have forgot to thank you this week if it wasn't for Nicole. So thank you for Nicole for reminding me as well.
Oh that's okay, we forgive you.
Thank you appreciate it. Okay, So this is the Krim Family murders. And shout out to a friend, Darcy overhead at Crimson Down Collective, for recommending this case to me.
Okay.
I was talking to her. She said, oh, should look into this one, and I was like, oh, yeah, I'll probably do that one soon. And then I read an article about it and I'm like, I think I'm going to do it real soon. So here we are. Hey, yeah, okay, so today we talk about not only the Krim Family murders, but a story of an individual named Joscelin or Tega. Okay, so, Yoscelin was born in the Dominican Republic on May first
in nineteen sixty two. Her family was not a small one, and it was one of you know, eight children, So it's a bit of a bustle in home, right her parents owned a owned a grocery store where the children helped at a young age, which is a typical practice for many people and families in that era. You know, like the kids working on the farm. You know, we've got to have more kids, we have more hands working around crops and whatever sort of mindset. But that's besides
the point. So because of their successful business, their family was living a life that was fairly comfortable as far as local standards go. And Jocelyn's life, however, would take a different and dramatic shift at the age of sixteen, and this was when her twelve year old sister Rosa died unexpectedly from her brain.
Aneurysm Oh jeez.
Yeah. So when she looked back on her life in her later years, it was clear to see that this tragic event was the beginning of her struggles with depression. Like many who suffer from depression, Joslin became reclusive and shut out to many of those who were close to her, and she did so for probably about a year at least.
She began experiencing persistent headaches that came along with it. Now, as if dealing with depression wasn't quite enough, these headaches seemed to bring along an even darker aspect with it. During this time, she also started hearing voices. These voices were things of absolute nightmares, and she said that they would urge her to hurt herself, and not only herself, but also those around her as well. Oh, my friends or family or whoever's in the home or who she's with.
That's terrifying for both her and others.
No kidding. Yeah, Now, despite what they were saying to her, though, she consistently was able to resist listening to them, doing her best to ignore and brush them off. But it wasn't easy. They were very persistent. They nagged, and they would describe sorry, and she would describe the voices as external to her mind, which basically means that these voices aren't like in her head. She could actually hear them like audibly, like talking to her okay, which is I think scarier if you ask me.
Yeah, that's terrifying.
Yeah, no kidding, And they would actually often get loud enough to wake her up at night and even prevent her from sleeping at times.
Oh man.
Yeah, so this was not a good thing that she was going through. Yeah, but she was consistently just doing her best to ignore them whenever she.
Could, and probably I mean, I'm doing this more so alone, right I'm assuming.
Yes, Yeah, there's not a whole lot of discussion or talks about this.
Back then and stuff.
Yeah yeah, I mean like back then. It's not only back then, but it's also in the Dominican Republic too, Right, mental health conditions were heavily stigmatized at that time in
the sixties, but also over in the Dominican Republic. It wasn't really something that people really took seriously having in all honesty, probably for not even since like the last couple decades, was it really something that people were like, hey, we should actually maybe maintain look into andreap this sort of shit and take I mean, honestly, it's.
Come so far, but it still needs to come further in that Like, I mean, people are afraid to talk about it. It's talked about a lot more, but it could be talked about even.
More, I think definitely. But for you also, and though she was afraid a lot of repercussions would come towards her for if she were to talk about this, for being labeled loco quote unquote or crazy, right, so she kept all of this to herself, never speaking about it and not seeking any help. Now, despite her struggles and hiding what she was enduring, she persisted in life. In nineteen eighty five, she was she completed a degree in accounting and relocated to the Big Apple Okay, Old New
York City. That's impressive, it is. And when she moved there, one of her sisters had already made the move there as well and was living there, and it made it a lot easier for her to make that transition to live with her sister. Right, And so her life was now going well in this new country. And by nineteen ninety five, Joscelyn was married and gave birth to a beautiful baby boy she named Jesus.
Wow Okay okay.
Now. Despite the new life, her marriage, though, was unstable and eventually ended in divorce a few years later in nineteen ninety nine, which prompted her to move to the Dominican Republic to continue to raise her son. Now, she did yearn for what she had experienced in the USA. In New York. She loved it, She wanted that, and she knew that there was more opportunity there, and she knew that there was more financial prospects to potentially raise
her son and support her son. So she moved back to the States and made the very difficult decision of leaving her son in the care with her sister while she did go back to New York. Oh okay, Also, my mic is like sliding down here. Okay, I think my mic is tightened up and a get good enough.
You got your shit together.
Again, I think so, I hope.
So maybe I'll just sit here and watch it slide more.
Maybe. Anyways, where did I leave off here?
Now?
I was totally distrussed.
I just left her kid with her sister.
Oh right, So yeah, she left her her son Jesus with her sister and she moved back to New York. So her son is in the Dominican Republic when she goes back to the United States. So now in the big city, she worked various jobs in factories as a cleaner, and even officially became a US citizen in the year two thousand and four. Throughout this time, she maintained close contact with her son, even ensuring to visit him several times on a yearly basis. Awesome, so she's consistently going back,
she's sending money. You know she's going to see him. She's still a part of his life. It's not like she's like, see you later. It's more of a I'm doing this for you, for the family, for better life sort of situation, and she'll take advantage when she can to ensure that she's still there now. Even though this was all going on, she was living the life she
wanted to in New York City. Jocelyn's depression would follow her, and in two thousand and eight, a close friend of hers ended his life by suicide on the balcony of her child home back in the Dominican Republic.
Oh boy, it hit her hard, yeah.
And it plunged her into another deep depression. She moved back to her home and became overly protective of her son at this time and did everything she could to ensure she'd or that he didn't the house except only for school. Yoslyn continued to hear these voices too, and they were consistently telling her to stay indoors as a condition worsened. Worsened, her sister took over caring for their son,
and Yocelyn once again returned to New York. Okay, yeah, so it's a bit of back and forth, trying to figure figure things out for her. Now, eventually, Yocelin would meet the Krim family, which is where this case truly begins. Kevin Krim was a former athlete and Harvard graduate and
Marina Krim, a University of Southern California graduate and entrepreneur. Now, they first cross paths at a restaurant in Venice Beach, which is like picture perfect for like a romantic relationship if you're thinking like a Hollywood story, right, yeah, like we have a Harvard graduate and an entrepreneur meeting in Venice Beach.
Yeah, like hand me the romance novel, now right.
They did get married in two thousand and three, and they would have a daughter named Lucia, and in two thousand and six they had their second child, they named NeSSI in so sorry, they had their daughter in two thousand and six. Lucy out in two thousand and six and NeSSI in two thousand and nine. Okay, so three years apart for those two.
Both both girls. Sorry ah, yes, okay, yeah.
Now, the family moved to New York in twenty ten for Kevin's job as a CNBC Digital media executive. Together, the family moved to a picturesque neighborhood in Manhattan, just a block away from Central Park. This area is quite upscale and known for its very expensive apartments, like extremely expensive apartments, and Kevin had a very demanding job, so living here in this area it required him to frequently travel, which left Marina to be one of to be the one,
you know, at home really taking care of their kids. Now, Lucia and Nessie were solo with mom. But that wasn't just to say that, you know, Marina was a stay at home mom. She also taught art classes part time and had a blog for their family where she could actually document and write about their adventures together. And that blog was called Life with the Little crim Kids.
Oh that's super cute.
It is. So she put a lot of effort into this, really documenting things, and I think it's something for like, of course blogs are for other people to read, but I also think it's.
Kind of like it was an outlet for her.
It was, and it's something that you can look back on as your kids are growing up. It's like it's almost like a family album or a journal or something like that, you know, So it props to her for doing that. Now, their life was going good, and they were very busy too, but they both worked and they had that family life. And now they were expecting a third kid. Oh ding dang, so things were getting even
busier from them. It was in twenty ten when Marina, while pregnant, met with a woman named Celia had a dance studio, and that dance studio is when she was dropping off one of her children. Now, Celia, who worked as a nanny for another family, saw Marina and noticed that she was juggling to kids while expecting a third and she looked very tired and honestly a little bit overwhelmed. So she approached her and struck up a conversation about childcare.
They talked for a while and Celia recommended her sister, Jocelin. Now. She said that if you're thinking about hiring someone for a nanny position, she would be a great fit. Marina was delighted and they asked, you know, Celia to send over Yocelin's resume. So later the Crims received an email with the resume and a reference later that week. Now, the reference was from a family who Yocelyn had previously worked with, and it painted her as an experienced and
reliable nanny. However, the problem here was the reference was fake. It wasn't written by a family who she had worked for in the past. In fact, Joscelyn had never even worked as a nanny before. The reference was written by Jocelyn's niece who didn't even have any kids. Oh boy, so she's kind of like fake in the resume sort of thing.
Yeah, that's that's uh scary. It definitely is also kind of easy to do. Really.
Yeah, So Kevin and Marina decided to interview Yoscelyn after reading through her resume and reference. She sounded great and the interview went well. Despite her lack of experience, they were unaware that she, you know, didn't work in childcare. She was able to get through the interview, you know, tell them the right things or what she would do. By all accounts, it seemed like she knew what she was doing. Yoscelyn impressed them, which led them to hire
her as a part time nanny for the family. Now, her duties primarily involved picking up and dropping off the children from various places like school or other activities. She worked twenty five hours a week for eighteen dollars an hour, which was paid in cash. Which meant, you know, definitely evading that tax right, which is very helpful.
Makes it seem like a bit more.
Yeah. And for reference, the minimum wage at the time in New York was seven dollars and twenty five cents, so she was making pretty discent money.
Yeah, well over.
Yeah, yeah, yostly was and excited and expressed a lot of gratitude for the job and even in the ways that the crims had treated her. So the crims were happy she was doing a good job, and she was happy because you know, she was like they almost began to treat her as if she was a part of the family too, which I think can happen lots of times with nanny positions.
Yeah.
Yeah, so they often, you know, they gave her gifts with like nice gifts too, like an Ann Taylor jacket for example, And they even paid for plane tickets for her to go back to the Dominican Republic to visit her family and her son.
Wow. Yeah, oh that warms my heart. That's awesome.
So soon Marina gave birth to the third child, who was a little boy they named Leo. He was a happy little boy who was enjoying life and seemed to grow up so fast in front of their eyes. And even as he grew up, there were some notes about him like even having like pine comb collections and stuff
as like a toddler, like little things like that. Right, And so in February of twenty twelve, the Krim family decided that instead of paying for y'all sin to visit her family, you know, another one of her trips over to the Dominican, they would instead travel along with her to go meet her family and covered all the expenses.
Wow. Yeah, okay, So.
They're like, you know what, you're not going alone. We're gonna go with you. It'll be a nice, you know, opportunity for us to get to know you, get to know your family, our kids meet your son. You know. It's a major bonding experience.
Yeah, that's really cool.
Yeah. So together, they all seem so happy, and they meshed really well. The Crim children were particularly fond of yocelin Leo even reportedly sometimes had trouble sleeping without her beside.
Him, oh my goodness.
And Lucia often drew pictures of her, you know, like being part of the family. It was a cohesive and I mean they're not blood family, but they were family.
Yeah, I feel like it doesn't have to be blood to be family. There's chosen family and stuff sometimes is a bigger deal right now.
The Austlin's family even jokingly remarked that she had four children, not just one, because of the deep bond with you know, the Krim kids. Yoscelin's son Hazeus, would at times visit New York as well as he was getting a little bit older, and the Crims treated him just as well as they would Yostlin. They gifted him an iPad and later paid him to do some dog sitting while they were away, and allowed him to stay at their home and you know, sleep in the beds in their house.
Kevin talked to Hazeus and encouraged him about his future and even in sports. Hazeus appreciated Kevin, even quoting him later on to say, quote, he was a very busy man, but he made time to talk to me and I valued that.
Oh man, Okay, this is just like this is so nice.
It is. It's very heartwarming, this whole situation.
Yeah.
Now, there was a bit of a life shift for Yoscelin, though. In April of twenty twelve, she had a bit of a falling out with her sister which led her to be on her own and she was looking for an apartment by herself. Now, she was thrilled to be moving out of the place that she had lived in for nearly thirty years at this point, and she found an apartment in the Bronx. So thirty years she's been, like, you know, staying in the same apartment with her sister
in New York. So she's been here for a while.
Yeah.
And by June of that same year, her son even moved from the Dominican to join her mother in her new place as well, sorry, join.
His mother his mother. Yeah wow.
Joscelyn felt confident she was able to provide a comfortable living space for him and even planned for him to complete high school in the US. Unfortunately, though, the public school system required him to repeat the eleventh grade, which was a serious unfortunate setback for the young man, and Joscelyn decided to make the tough choice to enroll him in private school instead so he wouldn't have to complete the eleventh grade again and just go on for his
final year. And this cost was a total of seven five hundred dollars.
Oh wow. That's quite a bit, hey.
Yeah, So for the first time in her life, Joscelyn had a sole responsibility for Jesus, and it started off
with a bang signing up for this private school. And it didn't take long for her new life to change her financial situation, as it quickly became very strained between rent, living expenses, supporting herself, her seventeen year old son, the debt of paying off the private school m she began to struggle quite a bit, and eventually she made the difficult decision to give up her apartment and move back in with her sister. So she lost that independence right now.
Though I'm not exactly certain who was living in the apartment now, there were a total of five individuals living in this three bedroom space. The apartment was described as overcrowded in a stressful environment, and Yaucelyn was upset about losing that independence. I think it was a real big knock to, you know, her pride. She was going to provide for her son first opportunity and she couldn't do it.
Yeah, that makes sense, that's yeah, Like that would be hard for anyone to kind of swallow, right.
Definitely tough call. So she decided she would ask Marina if she can get a bit of a raise, and it was agreed that they couldn't actually provide a raise specifically, but they could pay her for more hours. So they gave her an additional one hundred dollars for five extra hours each week. And if you're doing like Monday to Friday,
that's only like one extra hour a day, right. So Jocelyn accepted this offer and took it more or sorry, took on the more work whenever possible, babysitting and doing whatever the family needed, and even doing some side hustle stuff with selling jewelry and makeup and you know, cooking
meals for events or whatever it was. Yocelin was overwhelmed, though she wasn't working a whole lot for the Krim family with the twenty five hours plus now the extra five hours, which is thirty hours a week, right, but with her side hustles and everything, she was often working over twelve hours a day and expressing how tired she
was whenever neighbors even saw her passing in the hallway. Yeah, Marina was aware she was struggling financially and would recommend Yocelin to friends or family or anyone that she knew in need of a babysitter. However, this only frustrated Yoscelin, who felt the extra duties cut in her time with Hayesus and left her feeling like she was losing control of her life and ultimately resenting Marina for this.
Really, yes, why she was trying to help though.
Yes, but she didn't need more work. She needed more money. Oh okay, so she's almost like, you need to give me a raise, not give me more work. Huh, because more work means more time away from my son. Yeah, and yeah, so it was like there was this bit of resentment for that. Oh no, yeah, but we'll touch on it a little bit later on again. So still, Yocelin maintained a professional demeanor at work, even though she was starting to kind of like get that little bit
of like gruffness towards Marina. So she confided her frustrations only in those who were close to her. Now, to them, Jocelyn seemed to be slowly unraveling mentally. She was losing weight, looked gaunt or frail, and was frequently extremely tired. And even at points they would see, you're quite tearful. Now, I don't know if that's like just watery eyes or she's actually we crying physically, but regardless, I think it's the same outcome. Her once happy attitude seemed to change
as well. She stopped greeting people enthusiastically with a smile, stopped listening to the music that she always listened to on a daily basis, and began experiencing insomnia. The vibrant person she once knew once was just seemed to be gone. In her small, cramp bedroom in the apartment with total of five people, Joscelyn described seeing once again shadowy figures moving around at night, whispering threats, telling her things, saying
that they're going to harm her. It seemed, after all these years, she was still unable to shake that horrible evil. When she wasn't working, she spent most of her free time in that room. Her sister said she could often hear her in that room praying, and Yoscelyn kept her mental health struggles hidden from the Krim family and continued to perform her duties as best as she could. Over Labor Day weekend in twenty twelve, Yoscelyn was offered some
extra work by a friend of Marina. After working one day, Joscelin said she can no longer do the job. Instead, a friend of hers would be taking over instead. Marina felt betrayed. She gave Yostlin a very good recommendation to the friend. She felt she put her own name on the line for Joscelin, and she felt that she was let down. The next day, Marina confronted Yocelin during a school drop off with the kids, reportedly telling her quote,
I don't want to see your face right now. Oh wow, so there's some tension building up.
Yeah, no kidding, Now there are some.
Other people around, you know, like there's other parents or kids or nanny's or whoever. Yeah, And Yostin kind of felt publicly humiliated from this, and she sat down on a bench park and just asking herself and just saying, what did I do wrong? I did everything for her? How can she ignore me? After everything? Even washing her underwear for two years? So she felt betrayed too.
Wow, I mean, yeah, this is actually a bit surprising because it seemed like they had bill their relationship pretty strongly for these things to be happening, right, But they're not really talking them through. I guess either.
No, definitely not. But yeah, each one is building up a little bit more resentment for the other, and with each situation that occurs, it's probably just growing with them, right, They're harboring more and more and they're not figuring it out or solving it. Now, Yostlin's work performance began to seriously decline, perhaps not only by her mental health, but also with the sort of situation and tension that's beginning
to grow between her and Marina. But now she was approached once again by Marina and warned that they might have to let her go to find someone else if things didn't improve with her performance. By this point, Yocelyn's mental health was taking a serious dive. Her family members recounted several disturbing incidents with her. In one, while visiting a friend, she appeared too faint, losing consciousness while her
eyes remained why open, Oh boy. Another time, she collapsed like almost as if her knees just like gave out underneath her, again with her eyes still wide open. Her sister once found her in the early mornings at about like four am, banging her head against the wall and pulling against her hair, crying, wishing, praying, yeah, not good. Joscelyn finally made the decision though, to seek out some mental health help, and she made an appointment with a
psychologist in October twenty second of that year. Now, during the forty five minute session, she didn't mention any hallucinations or psychosis, nothing about voices, nothing about shadow figures, but instead focused on the high stress levels, the anxiety about her work, her relationship with her son, and her sense of failing to provide for him. A psychologist noted these things, but never anything about displaying signs of hallucinations, psychotic episodes,
anything in that regard. So on October twenty fourth, more stress will be piled on Jocelyn. Mareena expressed some more concerns over for her not engaging enough with the children, which I mean explains if someone's going through depression and stuff that sounds about right, and also for giving them junk food when she explicitly told him told her not to give them this food, right m h. It seemed this would be the breaking point for Yoscelin in this
encounter with Marina. That night, Jocelyn took a lot of pain meds for a headache that she was suffering. Headaches that she'd been suffering for for a long time. She spoke with her sister and told her to take good care of her son and told her to raise him well and expressed her love for what she had for Hazeus. The following morning, on October twenty fifth, Joscelyn texted Hayesus to confirm that he'd gotten on the bus for school
just like any other day, and he did. And before leaving for the Krim House, Jocelyn hung up a purse on her sister's bedroom door. Now inside that purse there was family heirlooms. Photos of her deceased late mother, her mother's passport, social Security card, a chain that belonged to her mother, a broken ring and earring, Jesus's baby teeth, a picture of him as a baby, as well as childhood photos of her sister, her family. It was all of Joscelyn's prized possessions put inside of this purse.
Oh boy, my chest is feeling real tight right now.
It probably should.
Oh shit.
Joscelyn also visited a neighbor and left an envelope addressed to her sister. The envelope contained her debit card, driver's license, to insurance cards, passport, social Security card, blood donor card, bank papers, and one hundred dollars in cash, not that the neighbor knew that, right, It was a rest to her sister, so it'd be open later. But Jocelyn was apparently kind of like, like, I don't understand this statement, gnashing her teeth. I think, like kind of.
Like grinding her teeth.
Or maybe like yeah, like I don't know, like gaping her mouth a little bit and just doing some weird stuff with her mouth. Anyways, her eyes were darting around, she was pacing back and forth and just acting really weird during this visit, and Jocelyn from there would take the train to the Krim family home. When she got got there, Marine explained the afternoon plans y Austin was to take two year old Leo and pick up six year old Lucia from school and then escort Lucia to
her ballet class and return home with Leo for his nap. Meanwhile, Marina planned to take three year old NeSSI to her swim class and then pick up Lucia from ballet at five and then head home.
Gosh, that's so much ay, Like, well, I mean it is, but it's once you have like two adults taking care of this and a routine and stuff. Yeah, but I'm just like, oly shit.
So Yocelin takes Leo, picks up Lucia and then takes her to ballet and then takes Leo home. That's all.
It's four steps okay, okay, yeah, and.
Then Maria was taking NeSSI to swim class, picking up Lucia from ballet, and then home three steps.
Okay, there you go, look at you.
Yeah.
Here, I'm just like, holy shit, what am I supposed to do?
Drop off, pick up home? That's it? So Yaucelin followed the plan picking up Lucia from school, but instead of heading to ballet class, she took the children to Central Park for ice cream. Marina left the house at four pm with NeSSI. After the swim class, Marina and NeSSI went to the ballet studio to pick up Lucia Yeah, only to discover she never arrived.
Oo no, no, no.
Marina became anxious and worried right away because Yoscelin had always been dependable.
Yeah.
Marina texts y Austlin asking where where she was, where the kids were, but there was no response. She even texts again in Spanish quote where are you? But still nothing. She was getting really worried, so Marina rushed home with NeSSI and upon arriving to your partment, calling out for her a children, she saw Leo's stroller and Lucia's dance bag, but heard nothing coming from inside the home. It was silent.
Marina went back down to the dorman who was tending, you know, the apartment building at the front entrance, letting people in and out, you know, ensuring everything's all good. And the dorman said that Joscelyn and the kids had returned earlier and should be in the apartment. So Marina immediately went back up to the apartment and began searching, and it didn't take long before she made a brutal discovery. In her own words, Marina said this quote, it was
like a horror movie. I walked down the hall and saw the light under the door. It was so quiet, too quiet. I opened the door and saw Lulu. I knew she was dead. She was lying in the bathtub with her eyes open. Leo was next to her, and they had blood on them. Then I saw Joscelin covered in blood with her eyes wide open. All I remember is saying I hate you. I screamed a scream I didn't know was inside of me. I thought, I'll never talk to them again. They're gone. I just saw my kids dead.
Holely.
Upon seeing Marina, Yoscelin stabbed herself in the throat to end her own life.
Okay, what so she wasn't actually dead, Jocelin? No, but then she who killed she? Then she killed herself?
Yes, once Marina came in, Oh no, Lynn put a knife into her throat.
Holy shit.
Marina grabbed NeSSI and immediately fled, collapsing in the hallway of the apartment complex while screaming. A neighbor described hearing a blood curdling scream and finding her hunched over NeSSI going back and forth between calming NeSSI down and trying to calm herself down. Realizing of what the fuck just happened. The dorman called nine one one, and the building superintendent,
Michael Minniha rushed to the apartment. He found Joscelyn staring into a bathroom mirror, blood pouring from her throat as she stared deep into her own eyes. He could see the children's bodies and blood everywhere. Michael left the apartment and barricaded the door shut until police made their way and arrived, both so no one would see the absolute
horrors behind it and to ensure Yoslin didn't escape. The first responding officer found Michael holding the door shut, describing him as pale and sweating and saying, quote, whatever is behind that door is pure evil.
Oh gosh, this is just like making me feel ill. This is unreal.
Yeah, it's a fucking ride, I can tell you that much right now.
Holy shit.
The officers entered securing the apartment room by room, They found Joscelyn now laying on the floor, barely conscious, with a bloody knife beside her. One officer removed the children from the bathtub where they were laying, fearing they might actually slip from his hands due to the sheer amount of blood.
Wow okay.
Reportedly, the officers were even worried that the children's heads may become fully decapitated and fall off due to the intense gravity of the stab wounds. They sustained.
Okay, because okay, Well that answers the question. I was like, well, are we certain that they're dead? But okay, yeah, yeah we are.
Though the efforts to resuscitate them both did occur, they were pronounced dead. Marina was taken to the hospital with NeSSI she had to be sedated due to the shock of what just occurred in what she saw, dang. Both children had multiple stab wounds and slash wounds. Leo had five wounds and a slit throat, while Lucia had over thirty injuries, indicating a very violent struggle. The medical examiner confirmed they both died of blood loss, which means they were conscious of what happened.
Oh okay, she was the oldest one, right, I believe so yes, yeah, oh my gosh, ben okay.
Kevin was returning home from a flight from being away at work and was at the JFK airport and he was escorted by NYPD officers and was informed of what happened. Yoslin was also taken to the hospital as she clung to life and underwent surgery for her injuries. She survived. Once she regained consciousness. After surgery, Yoscelin was able to communicate for the first time since she attacked. She was able to say she was unable to speak, but was
given an alphabet board to communicate. She spelled out a message quote, I had to do everything and take care of the kids. I worked as a babysitter only, and she wanted me to do everything. She wanted five hours of cleaning every week. My schedule every day is different, boss, Marina every day has a different schedule for me.
Holy shit. So here she's conscious and like that's her fucking message. She just killed two kids.
Yeah.
Wow.
She didn't make any mention of voices, didn't make any mention of shadow people or demons. She only mentioned the resentment for Marina. Not concerned for the children, not what just happened, just the resentment for Marina.
I'm like shook right now. This is like so shocking, so unexpected, so fucked up.
Now, you know why. I was like, oh, yeah, I'll probably do this case soon. And I was like I'm doing this case real soon.
Wow, Okay. I was just like, Wow, this family's so dope and now and now it's just completely destroyed. Yeah.
Yostlin was charged with two counts of first degree murder, and a month after her arrest, her defense team entered a plea of not guilty by reason of mental defect or disease. So they're saying, yeah, she's right. Many evaluations both from the defending and prosecuting side, would occur in order to investigate this claim, and throughout these evaluations for years after, Joscelyn blamed Marina for what happened to her children and for many of the personal problems she encountered
as well. Now, the prosecution argued that Yocelyn did not have a mental defect or disease. Instead, she harbored intense hatred for Marina, believing that she resented her employer's expectations. They stated that she was upset Marina suggests that she worked extra hours instead of increasing her pay without any added responsibilities. Basically, you made me work for money instead of just giving me more money as a raise.
I don't. That's not how the world works.
So here, no, I mean we all want to fucking raise.
Well, yeah, who the hell doesn't want to raise?
And usually if we get a raise, you're getting like, hey, here's twenty five cents extra.
If that's it's like ten cents or some shit, right, like gosh, So she.
Held feelings of They also claim she held feelings of inadequacy about providing for her son as well, and that she became increasingly jealous of Marina's ability to provide for her children and a life that she could not provide for her own Sonjeseus, Which that one makes a lot of sense to me, a lot.
Yeah, but it ain't right.
That's no, it's not. But if you take that and also couple it with the idea of she's like, well, give me a raise, she's looking at this really well off family with these really happy kids who spend time with their kids, who are doing everything. She's like, you can afford it. Yeah, And so she's like, I hate that you can provide and you're not providing for me, so I can provide. I think that's a very big
piece to this puzzle. Yocelyn fixated on the idea that the extra work was causing her son to suffer, which fueled her rage and hatred the prosecution. Sorry this whole prosecution also culminated into the moment when she attacked and Yolson waited for Marina to discover the gruesome scene in the bathroom, only attempting to take her own life after witnessing Marina's anguish herself ensuring that she got gratification for
the gruesome actions that she just did. So that's what they're saying, is like you you were waiting, you knew you.
Well, yeah, because that's like, that's just fucked up to want to see the pain I know, of seeing her two kids dead.
Which it makes sense. She she held resentment for Marina, she didn't hold resentment against the kids. She took it out on the kids, and she wanted to see her reaction. She wanted that gratification of seeing Marina suffer.
Well, that is just like the ultimate of suffering. Though, like I and I thought that she had like a love for the kids, you know, so it's so bizarre that she could physically do that.
I know them, I know in court, the defense team would bring up the idea of the voices and the demons. Now, this is where I need to make a very big clarification. Up until now, there was never any mention of these things. No one knew of them, not doctors, not the Krim family. Only in court when defending her apparent mental state or disease or whatever you want to call it. Did these demons and voices ever get brought up. There's no history of it.
Yeah.
In fact, I even mentioned her seeking psychiatric help at one point.
But yeh, she never stayed in, never.
Stated huh, these claims she was suffering from this for years, there's no proof of it. There's nothing of it. She did have some family members saying, yeah, yeah, you know, this is the case that totally happened, but there's not like sure, why didn't you guys say anything until now, Like even when this occurred, nothing of it was brought up. Only in court when this is like the defense has it been brought up?
Yeah, which doesn't look good at all.
Yeah. Now they also claim that she was suffering from this, of course for years, but she also had no memory of the tack because she believed she was possessed by a devil during it. Now the prosecution struck back and asked, well, she has no memory of it, then, why was her first thoughts upon waking up to explain her actions? Explain why she was angry at Marina instead of inquiring and asking about the children, or ask what happened? Or ask
why did she here? Yeah? Oh okay, Yeah, So they're like, she was very conscious and very aware what she was doing.
Yeah, and she was hopeful that she was also going to be taking her own life, I suppose.
Yeah. Now, pivotal moment in this case came during the trial when the court played a recording of an interview between Jocelyn and the States expert psychologists. So, when they'd made this claim initially, I said, for some years, there was psychologists on both sides, you know, interviewing and analyzing
and all this sort of stuff with her. So despite her defense team claiming that, you know, she had these symptoms and all this sort of stuff, this recording of the state's evaluation went as such, So the evaluator said, quote, any recollection of hearing voices or voice telling you to kill the children? Joslyn said no. She was asked, ever, she replied no, I love the children very much a lot. She was asked, So, you never received any instruction or
voices that today's the day to kill the children? She replied no. She was asked, you never saw a devil? She replied no. She was asked, had a visual image of the devil? She replied no. Did you experience seeing men in black appearing? No, She herself denied the very existence of these hallucinations, these demons. Yeah, in her own words, when she first woke up, she explained exactly why she
did this. Yeah, In this interview, she's debunking the very defense that they are coming up with in court that never happened.
Well, yeah, so that's just confusing to me. Why is she lying about that?
Like, I don't think she's lying about it. I think her defense team is lying about.
Well, but so, did she actually ever hear voices and stuff?
No, yes, she was going through depression. Yes, she had some very serious mental health issues. But she never heard voices. She even said that gave this little interview. So you never received any instruction or voices that today's a day to kill the children. Any recollection of hearing voices or voices telling you to kill the children?
No?
And no.
Okay, so she still may have heard voices, but just not in you know, to do this to the children.
Potentially, I guess, as far as I'm aware in my research, there's no proof that you ever heard any voices.
Hmmm. Shit.
The jury Sorry. The trial would last a total of six weeks, but eventually the jury found Joscelyn guilty of one count of first degree murder and another of second degree murder, sentencing her to life in prison without the possibility of parole.
Well, yeah, I would say so.
Yeah, and that is the story of the Krim family murders.
That is just who Yeah, that's It's like, I'm I actually almost feel like I'm a bit in shock here. I didn't well rightfully, So, I mean, I know this is a true grim podcast, but it's just like, wow, I don't yeah, wow, I mean, how else do you even describe that. I'm shocked that she actually killed two of the kids, I know, these two innocent little kids.
Clearly she was suffering from from mental health issues, like I'm not doubting that one ounce, but she was not suffering from psychosis. That is clear. She was clearly fit enough to found fit enough to stand trial, yeah, one hundred percent. So whatever she was experiencing, she went from being a member of the family family even still saying in her own freaking words, I loved the children very
much a lot. Yeah, she went from that to cutting their throats and waiting to see their mother's expression on her face.
Oh man, man, yeah, yeah, that this just makes me feel ill. And you know, because mental health or not, like it doesn't it just it's not an excuse for these kind of.
As though it's not. It may lend some understanding and where someone's headspace is or what they're going through. But it's not an excuse. It's never an excuse. You you hurt someone, you hurt them.
Yeah, yeah, I don't like, I'm sorry, I'm just like flabbergasted a little bit.
Yeah, you're taken a back.
I feel so sorry for that family. And you know, now that their family have three, I can imagine the ship that they have to get get through and over and well, I mean they're never gonna get over it. But you know what I mean, I.
Can't imagine they're probably ever going to hire a nanny again.
Mm hmm, yep. I think you're probably very much so right. I mean, they're one kid too, Like the amount that they're going forward like protecting this kid right like, her life is going to drastically change too, because the parents, unrightfully show were just like terrified of probably anything and everything happening to her.
Yeah him, it was Leo Leo.
I thought Leo died or was it?
Oh no, that's right, that's right, Okay, right, Sorry, my apologies. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, that was a heavy case. Thanks Darcy for putting you onto that one. That was something.
Yeah, I've never heard of that one. Wow.
I've been trying to find some different types of cases recently, and it's I've come to this realization that the amount of times children are victimized in true crime is exponentially far too great. Like they don't get me wrong, like one is too many. But it seems like when I come across a case, I'm like, oh, this sounds interesting. The children are the victims, and it's a consistent the children are the victims, and it's beginning to absolutely fucking terrify me.
Well, I mean, gosh, like they they can't really protect themselves much, right, yeah, so, and they're so innocent and they have no idea the bad stuff that can.
Happen, and then the truth is in humanity.
So it's like almost easier for these people to to do the stuff I guess to.
Them, right yeah, well, I mean that's exactly what happened here. Joscelyn didn't attack Marina. She attacked the kids to get to Marina.
Yeah.
So yeah, that's fucked.
That is It's like that is like evil.
Oh yeah, so evil.
Well that's what that.
That's the one dude said, you know, as he was blocking the door. Michael, I believe it was as he was holding that door waiting for police to arrive, he said, whatever is behind that door is pure evil. Yeah, and he's one hundred percent right.
Mm hmm.
Whether whether there really was these fucking shadow people or demons or whatever whispering in her ears, whether it was those things that were pure evil or it's Joscelyn herself, I don't care whatever it yeah, pure fucking evil.
Yeah. Yeah.
So that's the story of the Krim Family murders. Hopefully you guys are still listening and you got through.
That all right, Well, yeah, and we can only hope that the Krim family is doing okay. Some some like I don't know, I want to say peace, but like even like a sliver of it, you know, for like some of the remaining life.
Yeah, so well, thank you for being here, Thank you for listening. Of course we have all those thingy is in the description of the podcast links to other stuff Patreon, for example, if you want to give us a review. We really appreciate that we are an indie podcast, produced researched. All of it is just us. There's no one else on our team, no one else over seeing anything.
It's just us that makes it seem so sad and scary.
Well, and I'm just saying like we're not some like part of big corporation.
I know what. I'm just like Wheels all alone.
We don't have managers nothing, you know, it's just us. So yeah, so yeah, we appreciate all the support you can give us, give us reviews, whatever, even if you're just listening. We appreciate the shit out of that. Trust me on that.
So sure do.
Thanks for being here. And Nicole's got the next episode? Are you gonna get the hint or just that's it? We're doing it next soon.
I mean, I guess I can. It's like a huge it's a Canadian story.
Okay, I know what it is, but yeah.
It's a it's happened in Nova Scotia in twenty twenty.
And it uh, don't give much away, I know.
I'm like, and yeah, it's it's it's maddening. It's like so maddening. I'm I mean, I was going to give out more, but then you just baus and me, So that's all you get. I mean, if you know the case that's gonna you're going to know which money?
Yeah, I think I know what you were going to say, and if you said that, I think it was going to give it all away. So that's why I kind of like.
Yeah, it's definitely worth a listen, like it, Yeah, it needs it's a story that needs to be told, as many of these do.
I agree, and as you put it in very good words, it's it's a maddening case.
Yeah.
Yeah, so uh until Friday, because every Friday now we upload. Until Friday, we will we'll talk to you, will see you or hear you, or you'll hear us. We'll be there Friday and until
Then, stay wicked.