The Infamous Donnellys

Hey everyone, I'm Nicole and I'm Ben, and you're listening to Wicked and Grim, a.

True crime podcast. Good morning.

The following podcast material for audience listener question Episode five.

Here we go, Episode five, Ready to roll. I don't know, I asked me at the end.

I'm hoping I can sit through all this because my back is like killing me today. I don't know why.

Old.

I know my birthdays next month? You better be getting me something cool. Thirty three.

I actually already have it.

You do, alright?

You three isn't really a big deal though, it's not like.

A well no, it's not a big deal.

But every birthday is a mile stone. Really you need to think that way.

Well, it's another year in this planet.

Yeah, birthday is not promised to anyone.

No, well, tomorrow's not promised to anyone. The end of this podcast isn't promised to you. Dun't n I could like unplug it and that's the end of the series. Just end it for people. It's all gone.

That's how we'll wrap it up. When we're done with this. Yep, there now you know it.

I'll look at Kiwi.

Oh yeah, we have our Maskot joining us, our.

Black Cat qis just all snuggled up in the center of one of the dog peds.

Yeah, the life.

I wish I could just lay around all day like a cat.

I really wish that I could just have one day where I did that.

Right, Even weekends, we're just non stop, go go go.

I've been feeling the need for that. I think it's coming up. I'm going to just have a day where I'm just bumping a log.

Good call, Good call. Oh actually, I completely forgot about this until just this moment. Should we maybe tell them that we're going to be doing a little giveaway things soon? Hopefully maybe almost, I don't know.

Oh, we don't know how long it's going to be though, but we are. We have a giveaway in the works.

Yeah, we do, because like we've had such awesome support from you guys so far that we're like, we need to give back to you just to say thank you for how welcoming you've been for us starting this podcast.

We need to our peeps.

But we got to get the thing to give away first.

But it's super cool and I think you're gonna want it, Oh for sure, I want it.

Well, maybe we should get some for us.

Yeah, but we're moving to a tiny home.

No, I forgot about that aspect because we already have those things. But we're not going to say what it is. We're not going to our we no, okay, we will say that we're going to be working with a local artisan to get it done up. How's that?

And she's very popular and they're super cool.

Oh you said she So now it's like narrowed down. Did you just assume her gender? Their gender? Did you assume their I just assumed her gender too by saying that, technically technically now she is an amazing artist. And yeah, it's going to be pretty cool put together.

Yeah, I'm actually stokedaked.

Are you stoked for this episode?

I am.

The research is done.

The research is done in the nick of time, not just but it was actually like super hard. I was expecting the research for this one to be much easier than the last one.

And why is that?

Okay, Well, it's an old case, so it's like, oh, there's probably not very much detail out there, like how many sources can there be? Blah blah blah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but there's very limited to sources, but like every single one of them was different.

Well, how did you figure out what the case is basically by.

Just reading as much as I could, and then if I ever came across the same info twice, then I was like, Okay, this seems like more legit. Like I just had to do a lot more reading and a lot more because before my last case, it was just news stories and it was a recent case, so everything was up to date, pretty black and white, and this just wasn't.

Yeah, that's kind of the way the case.

I feel like if the case was super easy for me to research, maybe it wouldn't be very fun to listen to.

That's true. True. So when you say it's a super old case, how old are we talking.

Here, Well, it's a historic case. A Canadian, another Canadian, amazing Canadian.

We should delve into some other country cases here soon because we're like sticking very close to home marks.

Yeah, I always said I would, so you do.

Yeah, well I do know. The next case is it's going to involve a Canadian but in a different country.

So this the murder itself happened in the eighteen eighties, eighteen eighty oh, so it's quite old.

Yeah, this is this is our oldest case yet.

Yeah, it's pretty intense. My job definitely like dropped a few times as I was doing my research.

Well, I'm ready for my job to be dropped to the floor of this episode.

Okay, you're ready, So I'm ready. It's the story of the Donnelly family massacre, massacreing the.

Donnelly family manicure. They all went out and got many petties together.

It's fantastic.

No the donal that name rings a bell. That name rings a bell.

It's a very like famous Canadian case. Okay, so I'm gonna dive in here.

Okay, let's hear it. Start start us off.

So the story starts in Tippery Island, Ireland, during the potato fathom fathom.

They can't fathom how many potatoes.

Are on and might they say that wrong? I don't know what fathom that famine.

Famine, the potato famine.

Only bring this, Okay. I have to get my craft together here, like the potato.

Famine famine, like that they're starving.

I'm a boat to dive into. Okay, you know what that is.

I can't fathom what that would be my gosh.

Oh okay. So the potato famine began in eighteen forty five when a fungus like orgasm. Okay, I gotta.

No, We're in there. That's staying in.

Orgasm organism. Holy okay, I love this.

Oh my jaws dropping to the floor just like you said.

Oh okay, So this fun is like organism spread rapidly through the potato crops. My face is probably read. It is ruining up to one half of the crops the first year and about three quarters of the crops over the next seven.

Years because of one orgasm.

He so, roughly one million people died of starvation. This is a big deal.

It is like you just brushed off what I said, just ignored.

Me, because we're moving on.

Okay, okay, moving on with that least.

Are you able to with another million being forced to leave? So it was a situation where you either stayed and starved or you left.

Okay.

So the Donelly's decided to seek.

A better life, and I'm assuming they came to Canada.

Sure, yes, yes they did so, James, Donnelly, Johanna and Donnelly and their son at the time, James Junior, immigrated to Canada. Arriving in Canada, they soon welcomed another son named Will and they settled in the township I'm going to have trouble pronouncing things tonight. The township of Budolph, near the town of Luken, just north of London, Ontario.

Budolf Lucan, the two hard ones.

They didn't have a lot, but they did have a very strong work ethic and began building their homestead. And this is interesting. So they laid claim to one hundred acres which was basically just land that they decided they liked and they picked out and were essentially squatters on.

Well, I'm like, I do know that it was a little bit easier to claim land back in those days.

That was like more of it was a common practice.

Yeah.

Well, however, approximately ten years later this would cause some problems which I just feel like that would cause problems. The land they were Scott squatting on had unknownly been sold or least that was like not really something that I could totally get in the research. It was either sold or at least to him, I don't know, okay, okay, to Patrick Farrell, And upon his arrival he was obviously very surprised to find the Donnaley's on his land. Could you imagine, Hey, yeah, you're.

Just like, oh, I got this new place. He's a new acreage, and then there's just people living in there.

Like Stoke to like see your new investment, and there's people there.

Like WTF, get off my property, No kidding, off my front lawn, you young kids.

So Patrick took the Donnelly's to court, where the judge, recognizing all the improvements to Donnelly's made to the land, actually split the land. So fifty acres went to Patrick and fifty acres went to the Donnelly's. This outcome to nots it well, and hard feelings obviously remained.

Okay, I that's a tough spot.

Though they had, like I mean, they were there for ten years. They had a lot of work being put into this. Yeah, James did a lot of work. It's a hard working man.

Landscaping, farming, all that sort of stuff, building their house, building fences, whatever.

Yeah, so it got split in half. In June of eighteen fifty seven, Patrick's and James found themselves face to face at a barn raising bee. A what a barn raising bee?

Okay, I know what barn raising is, but what do you mean a barn raising?

So it's like a work bee. So they used to do this back in the day where if there was big projects they need to be done, like a barn being made. Yeah, they would have a work bee where a lot of the locals would come together and they would be provided hard liquor in return for their work.

Okay.

I was like Ben would be there, Yeah, I.

Would, Jimmy Booze, I'll do almost anything, almost anything. Though I knew what a barn rays was, but I didn't. I've never heard of the b part.

Yeah, barn raised in work bee. I don't know. I just joined the two. Okay, So drinking was obviously involved. Words were exchange and Patrick and James got into an argument.

Fisty cuffs come in.

Which ultimately ended with Patrick suffering a blow to the head from a handspike thrown by James. Oh it didn't kill him instantly, but he did die from his injuries shortly after, and a warrant was issued for really rest.

That's brutal that he died from that.

Well, I think he would.

What do you mean by a hand spike? Like I just thought, like a large nail, Like, what's a.

HANDSPI didn't research what a handspike was.

Because I was thinking like like like a large nail, maybe a railway spike or something like that.

The metal hitting in your head. It depends if it like jabbed in or what.

Well, I can't imagine it would jab in.

Maybe he's a good shot.

Just ninja throwing star that shit.

So after the incident, James went into hiding. He successfully hid for some time. It was reported for upwards of two years. Oh however, in this time, and this was kind of funny, there were reports of a new addition to the Donnelly farm. A large muscular labor was spotted in the field wearing women's clothes. And also Johanna grew visually pregnant, so he wasn't far.

I'm like, that is funny, no kidding, large muscular figure wearing women's.

Clothing doing a farm labor. I love it. I love that visual.

Yeah.

James did eventually turn himself in, saying that Patrick had provoked him and started the fight.

It on it it sounds like it's like manslaughter, like he got mad and just threw something Adham and ended up killing him. I mean, depending on what a handspike is, maybe it's a freaking like a pickaxe or something, right, I don't know.

Yeah, like I don't think he went to that work being tending, right, He probably don't even know he was going to be there. He was sentenced to be hung, hanged hung, I don't know how you say that, hanged. But Johanna couldn't have this, so she put in a petition for mercy, which lowered James's sentenced to seven years.

Well that's that's a drastic change. It's like either you die or you sit here for seven years.

And I love the power that like a wife could have of that MAIDA good for her even think that would be listened to nowadays. But something that I hadn't mentioned yet is James and Johannah have actually had eight children at this point, seven boys and one girl.

So if you guys can't hear this like stuff, we have a dog chewing on a bone, a cat climbing all over me right now. It's like it's a disastrike.

Lock the animals up while we're doing a singation. I think so. So Johanna, now head of the family, needed to toughen up her boys as there was obviously like a lot of work to do. Yeah, and this is apparently just what she did, because when James was released from prison in eighteen sixty six. His boys were now men and tough as new.

Were they wearing dresses out in the field.

No, I don't think that got passed on to them.

Okay.

They were not afraid to throw a punch and had many of their own run ins with the law, and I mean many from various accounts of assault, both verbally and physical, arson, theft, robbery, assaulting a police officer. They honestly, the Donaldi's just had a rap sheet.

That's a whole ass resume is with that, Like, look at how.

Many boys there were, and like Dad's in jail.

I don't know, I don't know. The whole boys we boys stories kind of like it only goes so far, you know.

Yeah, okay, but it was and just the Donnelly boys too. It was also reported that Johanna had a few run ins with the law, herself involved, being Constable Carol. Huh, you'll hear that name again, Constable Carol. A local saying went, the farther one lives down Roman Line Road, the tougher one is and the Donnalies live at the end of the road.

Okay, okay, they're tough. I feel like that's almost foreshadowing like they live at the end of the room.

So aside from them having a rougher reputation the land dispute that I talked about at the beginning, there was also political aspect to this story. The township they they were in had a large Irish settler population, and the politics from their homelan, of course, didn't disappear when they came over here. The Donnelly's were known as Blackfeet. Assuming this is all so where because in a lot of the research they had the title of the black Donnelly's

Okay, I see, I see. So people are getting angry. It's like you gotta you gotta stand up, you gotta pick who you're gonna be with. Yeah, okay, so the white most cowardly.

Well, yeah, because the white boys refuse to live peacefully with the English and hated Blackfeet even more than the Protestants.

Okay, yeah, okay, I could see it being considered be cowardly back in that day sort of thing.

Yeah. So, and the township was unfortunately an equal mix of these groups. Was just in the situation.

Yeah, that's that's all. That's a do a brew waiting to uh.

I don't boil over at you on purpose, because it isn't stuck kind of Irish. It is Irish.

Well there's Irish st there's stew is like all over the world.

Oh okay, I thought it was kind of an Irish dish.

I mean maybe it's more prominent in that area, but I do know that like stew and soup is like came from like every culture.

Oh okay, here, I thought you were like doing something well no.

No, I was just thinking that like tempers would have been stewing. So I said that was a stu.

A time though, make jokes like that and yeah. Anyway, Before I move on to talk about the Donnelly's stage coach Endeavor, which is quite.

Exciting stage coach en Devor, which.

Is quite excited exciting, I wanted to note that many articles I read mentioned that Donnelly's weren't the only family up to no good. Many communities in Ontario in the nineteenth century dealt with numerous crimes and the bringing bringing criminal criminals criminal. I can't speak bringing criminals criminals because always wasn't always easy either. Many constables themselves were untrained or criminals as well. And for many reasons, the courts

I mean, well, it's not that it was an enemy, but remember that one time when we were younger and you're, well, you still are, but you're obsessed with Lululemon, and I was like, I should start a company and call it La La Lime, and I should take over.

I don't know if that would have gone well.

I think it would have been like a boom in business, just saying I do think. I think it would have been like amazing.

It could have been, I'll get all it could have been.

Yeah, that's copyrighted now officially, by the way, because it's documented on this.

So if you ever see that store pop up, you no Ben's bend.

Yes.

So the rival between these two began. It was extremely violent, with arson, fistfights and attacks on each other's animals. I hate when there's animal things. I just like, I'm an animal, don't affect the animals.

It's a whole new level because it's like, okay, humans, like we can think for ourselves, we can defend ourselves. We are not always but generally putting ourselves into these situation where these animals are innocent. Yeah, they're just helpless bystanders.

They don't hurt them.

Not that a person can't be a helpless bystander, but it's not always the case where it is always the case that the animals that helpless bystander.

Yes after the Shenanigans, the Donnelly is if they didn't already get blamed for most things, they got blamed for pretty much almost every crime committed going for it sweet, though few convictions were ever secured against them, as the allegations were usually based on nothing they did have. I did want to know they did have some friends and some alled alleys allies, allies.

They had some alleys alleys and some orgasms that you couldn't fathom.

But the majority of the township just hated the Donnellys. Gotcha hated them, which is sad. In eighteen seventy nine, Father John Connolly arrived at Saint Patrick's Roman Catholic Church.

I got a sentence you good job, he was doing well, keep going.

He was greeted with many stories of the Donnelly's, so decided to take action by creating a Peace Society.

Okay, good for him. I like this, do you.

I don't think you should, but.

Okay, well, he's he's trying to make peace between them.

I guess. Member of the members of the society agreed to have their home search for stolen properly. But the Donnellys apparently did not sign this pledge.

Okay, so I still hung up. And why I shouldn't like this peace thing. It's basically a peace treaty, right, He's all like, we can be friends, guys.

I mean, his tensions might have been good, but he also and I don't have this in my notes, but he also seemed like he developed an opinion of the Donnaley's from just listening to all the people without even really getting to know them himself.

Okay, so maybe there was like a hidden mode of behind them.

I think so, because yeah, he wanted to have like the property search, and he was expecting that to go into the Donalis there would be like all the stolen goods and stuff.

Okay. Yes, my assumption of this was that he's like, well the name sounds yeah, He's like, we can bring everyone together, we can put this all behind us. That was my assumption.

But okay, so from this group, a splinter group is formed, okay, and they are called the Vigilance Community Committee.

Vigilance Committee. Okay, I got your committee. I was expecting some like very villainous name, but that's that's like I don't know, it's like a blockwatch committee, you know, like we gotta make sure there's no no Dix or Roberts or anything on this rah you know sort of thing. Okay, you know, all the Karen's getting together making sure that the block watch is all good. Yeah, that's kind of what's going on.

Thing, I like where your mind goes. So part of the committee is Constable James Carroll, who is bound and determined to stand up to the Donnelly's.

Okay, to stand up to them, But I just feel like it's.

So odd that a constable is part of this committee, right, I don't know. I just thought that was weird.

It's a really weird situation. You have some religious dudes starting all this and then a constable being part of this committee is like, it's very very backwood stuff going on.

Well, it's pretty much the Donnali's against the town. Really. I feel like all.

Because they were squatters originally, hey, basically.

That's how it started. But they they have gotten themselves into a lot of situations too, Like there was long lists of tons of times that they've been like arrested. If I could probably have an hour podcast on just all cheese so not long after the vigilance Committee is formed, William Thompson, a local farmer, notices that one of his cows is missing, and of course blames Of course, the committee is on it, though, and decides to go over to the Donnelly's to search the farm for the missing cow.

So hold on, I just want to say one thing here. I don't know why, but I almost feel bad for the Donalies, Like I'm at their defense right now. I'm full I'm fully expecting that to turn right around and me to realize that they're complete assholes. For some reason, I'm just feeling really bad for them, like they're the victims of the situation here.

Well, I don't know if it will turn around for you.

Actually, oh shit, okay, okay, But.

Honestly, like I kind of felt that vibe too when I was researching it a bit like I don't know, just I mean, they did so many they did so many bad things, but it was just like at that time a lot of people were doing bad things, but there was a lot of them, and I don't know, Okay, now, where the heck was I oh right, the cow?

The cow? Yeah, the cow?

Okay, So there was no cow. No cow turned up the Donnelly's. The cow has found later and had simply just gotten out. It's thought the whole trespassing incident was set up so they could inspect the Donnelly farm.

Oh yeah, I could see that.

The Donnelly's charged the group obviously with trespassing. Numerous arrests were made, but in the trial it said that James gave them permission to come on the property, so charges were dropped.

But diddy, no, Well, who the hell said that? Like? Who said that they had permission? That?

Just like remember how a little bit earlier I said that not everything goes like the right way.

Yeah, okay, sorry, one of those. I'm a feeling I'm gonna be hung up on a lot of little things like that I already have.

In the eighteen eighties, the Vigilance Committee strikes again. Their plan was to burn down a barn and blame the Donalies to heighten outrage and I imagine get more supporters.

Yeah.

The night they planned to do this, the Donnelly's they had wanted to blame, were at a dance, so James and Johann Johannah got blamed. Which sorry I changed, I put my page. This was a terrible planel because at that point both of them are like quite elderly, and even the Donnelly's worst enemies could see the case against them was quite weak. The trial was set to start on February fourth, eighteen eighty.

I'm like dumbfounded right now. I'm waiting. I need to know how this turns out, because like, how are they going to get away with just I'm going to burn down my own barn and blame these people, like what.

So the night before the trial, the family, the Donnelley family, was busy in preparation. James and Johannah had a house full, their niece Bridget was visiting from Ireland, and Thomas Donnelly was also home, and a thirteen year old farm boy named Johnny O'Connor was over to help care for the farm chores while the Donnelly's were going to be at

Okay, okay, I feel like this is just going down, like this rabbit hole.

Of Shit's committee, however, had another plan for their evening.

Oh my god.

The committee was very unhappy as they figured James and Johanna would be found not guilty of burning down the barn.

Well, it's because they're not.

Yeah. So, approximately thirty of the Donnelley's most bitter enemies gathered with weapons and liquor and decided to take matters into their own hands.

It's not a good old mob if you don't have liquor.

Yeah, they need the liquor. Yeah, definitely, just after midnight with some liquid, courage.

Consumed he actually have that in your notes?

I do. I was like, I gotta put that in there. I'll forget. The angry mob, led by Constable Carrol, storm over to the Donnelly household.

These guys are dicks.

When they arrive, they surround the property and Constable Carol barges to the front door, creating an element of surprise. I mean I would be freaking freaked right out of someone kidding as I look at.

The door, I would definitely be surprised.

Thomas, the strongest family member president, was handcuffed immediately. Commotion obviously woke the household James requested to see a warrant, but Carol didn't have one. At that point, Carol singled, signaled, signaled, signaled for the other men to storm in the house, and they did. They stormed in there in a brutal attackez this and this right here like shows how it was a brutal weapons of choice pitchforks, shovels, clubs, and axes.

Okay that as soon as you said that there was like twenty to thirty of them, like liquor and like weapons. I literally first thing I pictured pitchforks.

Well, I'm back in the day, and yeah.

It's a mob. I'm surprised they didn't have flaming torches as well.

I feel like that's also the what you kind of have for like a zombie apocalypse so too.

I mean definitely, if you're out in a farm, you're gonna find those things, So that's what you're gonna grab. Yeah, although my zombie apocalypse weapon of choice a wooden baseball bet just.

Saying oh with the root barb or is that what you barb o? What do you call? What? Din't the guy from the Walking Dead house?

Oh Meagan had barbed wire rubb. I think you were thinking rebar, which is bar?

Is that how you say it?

Well, no, it's it's barbed wire is what he had. But rebar is the word I think you had in your head, and that is like it's a thick bar they use for like foundations and buildings and stuff.

Okay, old rhubarb, but I feel like that would do the trick.

Just beat a freaking zombie over the head with a vegetable.

Oh my gosh. Okay, So the episode, though, I think it really shows that I actually need a day off.

I think so because or you need to drink a little bit more of your drink over there for my liquid courage.

H The first of all was James Donnelly. He was beaten rapidly, his skull being hit repeatedly. Johanna fought hard but was eventually beaten to the ground as well. Thomas, though handcuffed, was fighting extremely hard to protect his family. He eventually got to the front door, but was met with a pitchfork that was thrusted in him numerous times. Oh my goodness, that hurts. Bridget had escaped upstairs, but she was found hiding and was beaten until she was limp.

Oh my god, that is insane.

The men apparently also bashed in the dog's head. I was like, leave the breaking dog.

This is literally mob mentality, like yeah.

The house was then lit on fire and the mob proceeded over to William Donnelly's house. You'll remember, though, that the Donnelly's had the fifth house guest there, the little thirteen year old Johnny O'Connor.

He was Johnny.

He was missed during all this commotion as he was hiding under the bed and was luckily able to break free from the house. After the vigilantes had left quote unquote vigilantes vigilantes. He ran to the nearest neighbor and told them what happened. As the committee arrived at William's house, it was actually John Donnelly who opened the door. He was spending the night there. As soon as he opened the door, he was immediately shot, while William and his

Jesus, enough bloodshed. Wow.

So see like that, I just like, maybe back in the day, that was just how you solve stuff.

I don't know, it's definitely not how you should solve stuff. I mean I understand, like it's not. They weren't as progressive as we are today, for sure. I understand violence was a lot more ingrained into the society. Yeah, like accept it. However, that does not mean we disagree with these people. So let's go bash their head in with a shovel.

Yeah, I mean, like they So five lives are taken that night, Jesus, that's a lot of lives. That left only four surviving, Donnelly's Jenny, Patrick, William, and Robert because two of the kids had previously passed away, one from an illness and one from a knife fight.

From a knife fight.

From a knife fight.

I was not expecting that.

From at a different time.

I was thinking, like an accident on the farm and illness, but a knife fight just out of nowhere, Okay, okay, that's interesting.

Yeah, maybe that's the way to go, Like.

I would not want to die of a knife fight.

No. The funeral service was conducted by Father John Connolly, the same priest that initially started the Peace Society, which I thought, I don't know, I just thought that was interesting. Yeah, the church was packed. Some were shocked, others were relieved because the Donnelly's are down.

Yeah, and I'm sure others were probably like laughing and bragging.

Well, and then some of the vigilantes even were in attendance, including Constable Carrol. Like, gosh, if you had part of this, like don't go to the funeral, right, feel like that's just like nice human one a one. Johnny was as well there, including several reporters. So October fourth, eighteen eighty, the first trial begins in London, Ontario. It's for Constable Carro, who was charged for the murder of Johannah Donnelly. Johnny

Wow, good on this little boy, because you imagine being thirteen years old.

I no, he's still he's still Like everything I read, he was like, still gun ho to go about it. He's like, good for you.

Right, Johnny is like Johnny's the badass of the day right here.

With this trial, the jury claimed they couldn't reach a verdict though one and this was interesting, one jury declaring he would never convic Carol, even if you've seen the killings happening himself. What I was like, well, I mean I think it's just because everyone's like so against the Donnelly's. The second are you okay? I am just The second trial started the following year, with the testimony being very similar,

Again, for the manicure the massacre, I can't say it right now, massacre, massacre, the massacre, not the manicure, the massacre.

I think you got that right that time, Okay, But honestly, something else I read, anything other than this would have probably caused a huge backlash. Why because everyone hated the dominies, and like, I think there would have just been like riots and stuff. So I mean, not that I'm saying that this that was like how the outcome had to have been, but like, I feel like there was just outside pressures for this, because there definitely was witnesses and

That is absolutely ridiculous. Every single one of those people are fucking trash yeap, Holy fuck. I thought the Donnelly's were gonna be like a fucking like murderous family like the Picton's or some shit.

Well remember he did murder well the one by accident.

Yeah, I don't think that was intentionally he threw something at the dude, came out of rage. Maybe it was a fucking dangerous thing that he did, but I don't think he intended to kill him.

No, And I mean the Donnelly's did a lot. Like with the stagecoach thing. There was reports where they they would go and hurt their competitors horses and stuff, but then the competitors did the same thing.

Back to that, and it's it's the two sides of the coin. You have a war going back and forth. What are they supposed to do? Sit back? They have an entire town against them.

Well because remember too up prior to like the land issues, they were just doing their own thing for ten years.

Yeah, so I.

Feel like I don't know. So yeah, no one, no one paid a single price for for this mass murder.

That is crazy.

So that's the story. See I did one that had that. You were like, oh, you mean it doesn't have a solid end, but I feel like kind of it does. It just wasn't justified.

Yeah, well that definitely was not a justification ending. Yeah, there's people out there, well not out there now, they've clearly passed away, but they're like their families are out there, and it's like they just went on with their lives, and they just went on to pro create and do their farming or whatever.

And it would be interesting to know if that Carol the Constable was still.

He's the biggest stick of them all, just saying that guy can go fuck himself.

He's the one you have the most problem with.

Yes, he's he's a freaking officer and he's joining this apparently vigilante committee. He's literally the fucking Karen in the block Watch. But he has all these like hidden agendas. He's only doing it because Tina down the street has chickens. She's not supposed to have chickens, and I can hear them making noise and it wakes my dogs up.

Well, I think he wanted to be the one that brought the Donnelly's down. He's a dick under his.

I don't give a shit what he wants. He's a dick.

Yes, you really feel.

Do you want me to use a sea word? Because I thought halfway through this I could call him seaword Constable Carol.

So that's the story. There you have it, Damn. That was It's a very historic story, and I feel like there's a lot of different sources out there, and I mean there's been like plays and books and everything, so you could really dive into this this case and learn probably times more.

But when you said it was really hard to get the fact straight on this though, too, Hey, it was considering it's like an like no trial was seen through really, and it's like a false ending to the trial was.

Not correct so long ago, and there's just each source had like little tidbits of different different info, which I found interesting. It would it would be similar, but like there'd be like little differences.

Well, like what were some of the differences though, Oh, you're really putting me on the spot here. Well, you can't think of anything off the top of your your head, can I? Well, like you said like they weren't sure if they owned or leased the land.

Yeah, okay, that was one thing.

Anything else and it was all like minor details. Okay, it's not like five were dead or seven dead. It's nothing like that, right.

No, No, okay, no, it wasn't. It wasn't stuff like that. It was just yeah, I'm trying to like look through my notes. I didn't write down.

Well, it's not pertinent. I was just curious as long as it's not major information.

It was a major information, it was just different, different way of telling, not even like the most.

Important bits of the story gotcha.

So but then it just like kind of played with me and I was like, what the heck, like I want to know exactly. So then I'd read like different things and try to pick the one that was like the.

Most common from good sources. Of course.

Oh there's also Oh I should have wrote it down. There was uh, there's like a brewery. I can't remember a craft beer place now that is about the Donnelly's.

Really where do you know where?

I'm assuming in Ontario, like I think it was where all this stuff went down, But we should.

Go there one day. I want to go there, I know.

Because I think there was the gravesite. There was a little bit about that, and they had to remove the the tombstone because it kept getting like vandalized and stuff, which that was really crappy, but it has been replaced. At one point they were letting people go in there because it was just I think a lot of people wanted to go see and stuff. Right. I don't know if you can go in at this point, but I think that'd be really interesting not.

Being vandalized by freaking constable Carol's bratty ass kids.

I don't know, probably just bratty kids.

Yeah. Yeah, that was a good case though, well done.

So there you have it. Yeah, it's very interesting. I would be interested to read a book about it, Actually I would. I would like to dive in a little bit deeper even after Yeah, well maybe.

We should dive in switch you can figure out.

Yeah, so thanks for listening.

Yeah, we appreciate you guys being here. Don't forget to check us out on Instagram at Wicked and Grim. Well, of course, make sure we post a little selfie. Actually we should. We haven't taken a selfie yet. We'll take a little selfie.

Wait, I'm wearing the same shirt that all the selfies are in though, so we can't why I'll have to change you can it change?

Okay, So Nichole's got a change and then we'll post a selfie. But by the time that happens, it'll be it'll be up on Instagram and you guys can go check us out. You can go see that selfie. And of course we appreciate you being here.

Thank you.

Yeah, so stay wicked friends. Yeah, see you later Peace,