The Hi-Fi Murders

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Crimes come in all shapes and sizes. Some can be as benign as jaywalking across the street or little excess noise past certain hours in a suburb. From there, things can escalate from vehicular speeding to that and all the way up to murder. Today, a crime is committed that isn't on the extreme end of the list. The music store in the seventies called the Hi Fi Store was robbed,

My name's Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast.

The following podcast material intend more mature audience listener discretion. A little bit of celebration today. Hey mm hm, did you hear our ad at the beginning? Did you hear it?

Did you hear it?

Yeah?

I heard it.

I think you did because you were a part of it.

It was a good ad.

It was fearful. The new podcast that we started is officially out. It's launched. Season one is live.

Wow. That's awesome. That feels good.

It does. It was a lot of work too, so so yeah, if you guys want to check it out, that'd be appreciated. Yeah, search fearful that the Spotify link will be in the description. Yeah, most of you guys are on Spotify who listen to us, so we'll provide that link below. Give it a search.

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Yeah, what are you drinking today? I just realized you got to care.

You're gonna ask me that right now. That's like something I really don't want to share.

Why what is it?

It's kind of gross? Actually, well, it's not terrible, but it's like a Greens drink. Like there's a whole bunch of greens in powder form with like some gut health stuff in there. Like it's like it's basically like the healthiest possible drink you can be drinking.

So it's nasty as fuck, is what you're saying.

It's not nasty for greens. It's like pretty good, but it's quite thick. It's like black in color almost.

It looks pretty gnarly. Anytime I wash your custance always like a guessing game on what the fuck is in it?

Yeah, so I don't know. It's just just be good for like gut held and energy and stuff.

So well that's good.

I'm a basic bitch that believes in that shit.

So hey, take care of yourself. There you go, you're basic bitch drinking your greens. I'm a basic bro drinking my beer.

Hey. Oh, I was gonna say your craft beer, but I don't really think that's considered craft beer, is it.

No? No, it's not, although it is very popular in Vancouver at least it used to be.

Yeah, because yeah it's kind of it's hipster, but it's not really craft.

No, it's a small brewer. But yeah, if anyone knows in the British Columbia or maybe even Alberta area, Cariboo Caribou beer, Yeah, brood right here and Prince George we live.

And it's a little bit on the cheaper side than like craft beer, like less expensive.

Oh definitely. So I'll like splurred sometimes get a craft and then like this is my what I call it grocery beer.

Yeah, there you go.

Anyways, enough of beer and gut health.

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Yeah.

Should we get on with case? Should we do this?

I think so?

You ready, let's do it.

I've actually heard of this case, not that I could say I know much about it, but I had the title for once actually rings a Bell.

Well, are you able to say anything that you know about it? Or is it just kind of like, hey, this rings a bell and.

Like can't okay, I mean, as you go through, things might dawn on me. But the title was definitely I was like, oh, okay, this is a bigger case. I feel like it is.

A bit of a bigger case for sure. Yeah, and it's kind of a brutal in a sense of what some of the people had to go through. That's a big part of this awesome yeah.

Wow, because there's a lot of nasty motherfuckers in this world.

Oh, there certainly is people who are shortage brutal things, and this is no exception to that case. Because yeah, okay, let's hear it, let's do it. So it starts on April twenty second, nineteen seventy four. This goes back to Ogden, Utah, where the Hi Fi Audio Store was about to close for the day. Now, Stanley Walker was twenty years old and Michelle Ainsley was eighteen. They were the only two employees on the shift of the time. They were preparing to finish up at the store for the day, which

Yeah, it probably would have been a popular store.

Yeah, I'm thinking like HMV of the early two thousands and nineties. For me growing up with all the CDs everywhere, yep, well I just dated myself that, Yeah, you really did. Anyways, this one had records. So the two employees were cleaning up, getting ready to close the store, and just before they were ready to close shop and lock the doors, something

That's terrifying, yep.

Now two workers were staring down the barrel of these guns. It was something quite literally out of a nightmare. But they kept their cool as best that they could. However, it's unfortunate though they wouldn't be the only ones involved the robbery just beginning to happen. Sixteen year old Courtney Nayspit would unknowingly stubble into the robbery and progress.

Oh shit, like as a customer.

Not as a customer. So a little bit of the backstory here. Courtney was running some errands earlier around town and he was friends with Stanley who worked at the store. Okay, so he was like, Hey, I'm running some aarons around town. Do you mind if I'm just like parking the store's parking lot, because like, parking is tough sometimes, right, so can I just use a store parking lot and like walk around, do my errands and come back grab my

Retal, that is just it's one of those moments where it's just really just the most shittiest timing kind of thing. Yeah, like you're really just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Yep. That's pretty much the gist of that.

Because yeah, he could have just parted somewhere else and then, you know, wouldn't have to deal with what we're about to hear.

Well, and even if he was just like, hey, thanks letting me park here, I'm going to go do my errands, I'll take off and I'll leave you be. Instead of bothering you.

Again, oh, instead of being nice and thanking again.

Right, but instead instead of popping in his car and taken off. He went back in to see his friend again for a second time to say thank you. Yeah, and that's what caught him in the situation.

Dang.

So the men of course quickly noticed him entering the store, and of course quickly apprehended him as well. So now they had three hostages if you will, or victims, and they took the three of them and directed them down to the basement of the store. They were there, each were forced to lay down on the ground on their stomachs and they began to tie them up, binding their hands and feet together.

Jeez.

As the three were being bound in the store, the robbers were looking through the store's stock. Time was ticking by. They needed to figure out what exactly they were going to do, right, They're clearly here to rob the store, so they're kind of keeping an eye out through the whole process.

Now.

It was also during this that time was beginning to Like I say, tick By and Stanley should have been home by now from work, and Courtney was also expected to be home by now, But for some reason, it seemed the errands were taking a little too long. So concerned for their children's safety, Stanley's father or in Walker and Courtney's mother, Carol Naysbit, would each separately go out in search of their own kids.

Okay, they were on it, Hey they were.

And now, remember this is the seventies two, because this is before social media, this is before cell phones. So you can't just be like, hey, I'm gonna send you a text or I'm going to Facebook or Instagram or snapchat you. It's uh no, if you want to get a hold of someone, you actually have to go out and physically track them down. So Carol, let's start with her, would make her way to the high Fi shop as she knew her son Courtney had probably made his way

Too, right, Yep.

She entered through the back of the store. I'm assuming by this point she's probably pretty familiar with the staff because her friend's there lots. She knew to go there, so I'm sure she's been in and out quite a bit. She was on a mission, and I'm pretty sure it was with an angry mother's intent, because she just kind of like barged in looking for her son, and of course, looking for an explanation, being like, what the fuck, why

Seriously, like she was just like on a mission, hey, like get the fuck out of my way.

Yeah, a gun in her face and she's like, what the fuck are you doing?

Wow?

Props to her because I probably would have wet myself in that situation.

Yeah, I know, you almost feel like your instinct would well, I don't know, like turn around and leave. But like then your son's also in there, so you got to get your shit together.

And to be fair, like it could have been shock as well. That put that sort of facade on. Yeah, not even realizing like what is in her face right now, she's just got someone like back talking to her and she's just like, well, where's my son? Before she even notices that it's a gun.

You know, because she knows her son is in there, and.

Yeah, yeah, but regardless of why or how this played out, she did that and that is awesome in my opinions. Yeah, so props to her for for that. So with this, more of the robbers came running up the stairs seconds later, and they would take Carol downstairs to where her son was bound laying on the floor.

Dang it. So she did not get away.

She did not. So Courtney, when his mother walked in upstairs, immediately recognized his mom's voice, and then she would be forced downstairs. She would see her son laying on the floor. She too would be forced on the floor and bound. They never spoke a word to each other as they laid next to each other.

Dang no, I mean, and that would be such a feeling for Courtney because like I think he'd be kind of relieved, like wow, like my mom's here, like maybe she can help me, But then also like shit, now my mom's in the same situation. Like it would be such mixed emotion.

It would be because especially it's like my mom's here because of me, not because of him, don't get me wrong, but like she's she's here searching for me.

Yeah, oh yeah, yeah.

It's not in any way, shape or form Courtney's fault. I want to clarify that. But it's like she's here because I'm here.

Yeah.

So Stanley's father or in would find himself in the very same situation. He would go to the store in search of his son, who was supposed to have closed up shift and be home by now, and was greeted again with a gun in his face. Was then led to the basement. Was that thrown on the floor and tied up just like the rest.

It's surprising to me that they kind of come, they get in there, and they're met with the because there's only two robbers right like that, it's not startling to these robbers that these people are coming in or that the doors aren't locked.

And like, I haven't actually said how many robbers there are. Oh shit, okay, I did that on purpose. However, since you asked, I will explain and divulge a little bit of that information. There are reportedly a total of six robbers, holy shit, two of which are dealing with the vehicles outside the two vans that had pulled up, Two of which who are dealing with moving equipment from out of the store into the vans, and two of which that are holding the guns and holding the hostages captive.

Okay, that's a lot of people then.

Yes, so I'll be talking about that a little bit later on. But that is the primary information on it. But I'll be talking about that a little bit later on. So, now these six robbers had a total of five captives and they decided not only to rob the place, but they needed to ensure they got rid of any witness that they had. And this is where things get dark.

Yep, okay, that is ringing a bell. That is brutal.

Yeah, it is so draino. Just for a little background on this product, it contains several harsh chemicals which include lye, aluminium, salt, bleach, sodium nitrate, and of course a plethora of others. The lye being a very primary ingredient which rapidly dissolves organic material.

Holy shit, it is.

What makes draino draino because it dissolves things like hair in your oh my god, for example. So it will dissolve dissolve organic material like hair, grease and skin cells.

Wow.

It's essentially an or an acid for organic material. So one by one the robber began to force his hostages to drink the draino. He walked back to the bottle, filled up the cup, and approached his next victim and forced it down their gullet.

Oh gosh, does it I don't even know, Like if that would kill you it like quickly, I don't know. Okay, just keep listening here, those terrible visuals here.

Yeah, it's not fun, I'm sure. So. Time and time again forced the liquid upon them, and the draina would cause excruciatingly severe pain for each of them. The fumes alone were enough to be burning their eyes, and the chemicals were causing severe blistering, bleeding and convulsions in the victims. Oh my gosh, their mouths, tongues, and throats were just being burned and melted. They were bleeding and violently vomiting

Okay, I was not expecting that, Kay, who the shit like thinks about this kind of stuff? And like then also is a monster to go and do it?

Yeah, douche canoes for sure.

Yeah, I mean worse than that. Really, this that is just.

Beyond monstrous.

It's it's I feel like that would just be kind of almost on like the top of like terrible ways to die.

Yeah, Well, his attempt to tape their mouths closed was unsuccessful, primarily because the skin around their mouths had all melted and peeled away, leaving their raw flesh exposed, and the tape refused to stick to the wet surface on their face.

Oh I can't Okay, that's that is too much. Wow.

The robber wasn't happy. What he wanted for his captives in the basement was to pass out as a result of the chemical and basically die in their sleep. Okay, this isn't happening. That's not even close to what this draino was doing to them.

Well, yeah, they so they just literally thought that they would like consume this and then like be out and that's it. Yes, okay, I feel like that is like really stupid.

Yes it is. Yeah, I'm not gonna lie lie to you. It's very stupid. They had reason to think this, though, okay, which I'll get.

Into later because I feel like that's not how I would have imagined this to occur.

No, no, me either. No. They were just hoping for like an easy, quiet death so they could just rob the place and move on. But here they are with people like vomiting, convulsive growing, like screaming, and it's brutal. Yeah, this wasn't easy or quiet in any shape or form. No, it was loud, messy, and since they were vomiting so much, I mean, of course, it's not even going to kill them at all because it's not staying in their system. So during this whole time, the robbers were in and

Okay, just like I'm going to just get this done kind of thing, Yes, was probably what was going through this motherfucker's mind exactly.

Stanley Walker was next to be shot in the head, and Orrin Walker would follow the father and son. The bullet, however, missed Orrian on the first shot, so he was shot a second time. One of the men then focused on Michelle Ainsley, the store's eighteen year old employee. He grabbed her and forced her into a far corner of the dimly lit basement and forced her, at gunpoint to remove her clothing.

Oh my gosh, is she the only one left at this point?

Then? Ah?

Yes, seriously, Okay, this is terrifying for her.

Here the man would sexually assault her and rape her, and when he was done, he'd drug her, still nude, back over to where the other hostages lay. He lifted the gun towards her head, and as he did, Michelle said quote, I am too young to die, right before he pulled the trigger, shooting her in the head, killing her.

Jeez, holy, these people are just monstrous.

Isn't that fucking disgusting?

Yep, yep.

I can't believe. Like we do a lot of these cases, like a lot of true crime with a lot of brutal things, and it just baffles me every time how people can be capable of these fucking things.

Yeah, it is. Actually it's very mind blowing and like it's i don't know, like it's onre like it's not even reasonable, like or not. This might be the wrong word, but like they could have literally just have tied them up down there and done their thing and left. Yeah, and like worn masks or something so that they weren't identifiable.

Right, what does this ski mask cost? Right? I think back in the seventies that probably would be like a dollar or less. Probably you probably find a ski mask at the dollar store today in the right season for a dollar.

Yeah, but instead that it like take all these people's lives and the fact too, like they I mean, if they wanted this like quick death. It's interesting that they didn't just shoot them in the head to begin.

With, but well, they were wanting to avoid anything.

Loud loud like okay, like a gunshot okay.

Which is showcased in this next part because after he had shot Michelle, he had actually noticed that Orn was still alive. The previous the guy who had previously been missed and then shot the second time. Yeah, the second shot had actually only really grazed him. So they decided they were going to choke him out a piece of wire. So the man then straddled him, tried strangling him, and again was unsuccessful in killing him.

Wow, he sure has like that's a will to live. Hey.

Yeah, Next two of the men decided they had an idea on how to finally take care of him.

Maybe, Like, I don't know, this is just like so inhumane, Like I mean, none of it is human. Oh gosh, okay, I don't even want to know if I want to know, Well.

This is arguing. I mean, of course the draino was bad, but this is arguably one of the more inhumane things, if not the inhumane thing too. It's up there with the drainer, let's put it that way. They laid Orrin on his side, took a ball point pen and stuck it point side down in his ear.

Holy shit.

Then one of the men stood back and stomped down with all his weight onto the pen, sending it straight through his ear drum and it stuck out through the side of his throat.

Wow, Okay, that is fucked. Yeah, I excuse my French, but what the actual.

Right researching this, I my jaw was like dropped.

Yeah, and sorry, who is he one of the workers or is he the dad?

Or who is he's the dad?

The dad? Okay, gosh did that kill him?

Then?

I don't even think it would.

Have we'll move on here.

I'll just torturing the shit out of him.

I'll let you know. Finally, having dealt with their hostages, all the men finished loading their vehicle with the stolen property and then would drive away. It would be several hours later, almost three hours in fact, that the victims would be discovered. Orrin's wife and their other son made their way to the store looking for him. They heard some noises coming from inside the building when they realized

Still alive, doing.

What they could, they managed to break down the door of the store and made their way into the basement. Police were immediately called and they found the horrendous scene in the basement. Everyone was left for dead, but miraculously, Carol and Courtney, along with Orn, were all still alive.

Seriously, yes, holy, that's shocking.

Carol, unfortunately, though, would be pronounced dead on arrival at the hospital. Courtney, though, who was also expected to find the same fate as his mother, did survive. Wow, though was left with severe irreparable brain damage. He would spend a total of two hundred and sixty six days in the hospital. Oh my gosh, Orin was found with the

And he was shot twice too, right.

Missed the first time, grazed the second.

That is shocking to me that he likes to survive.

Yeah, no kidding. Wow, by every account, he should be dead.

No kidding, Huh.

It wouldn't take long for the story of the horrific crime to make the news in the local area, which I mean understandably. Something this fucking horrendous, How can people not be talking about it?

Yeah, that would be all over the news.

Yeah, and of course investigation going full fledged forward trying to figure out who the hell could be capable of this and who did it?

Well, that would be just terrifying to know that these people were like out and about still.

Right, Could you imagine hearing that happening in your town right now, wherever you're from. I don't care if it's a big city like fucking New York or a little tiny town like Hickson, which is just outside where we're from. When it's got like five hundred people. Can you imagine hearing that saying that, yeah, this just happened.

Yeah, I feel like you would definitely spend a bit of extra time, like checking over your shoulder and just like a little uneasy for sure.

Definitely. And like, don't get me wrong, I understand that in like New York shit, crazy shit happens a.

Lot, but this is bad.

Yeah, tell me that people were forced to drink draino when someone stomped a ballpoint pen into a man's head and then he continued to survive. And you're not gonna sit here and go what the fuck?

Like this is actual? Just to think that this is capable other humans doing this terrible of stuff to other people is mind blowing.

Yeah, because it is one thing. Don't get me wrong, it's still horrendous. But it's one thing to pull the trigger on a gun and kill a person because the gun is doing the damage. You mean, you're causing the gun to do it, You're still taking a life fucking horrific, But stomping a pen into someone's head.

After you forcefully already made them consume draino and watch the effects of that. Yeah, And you're still like in this mindset to just keep destroying and torturing them.

Yeah, a gun takes an instant, a split second. It's over what he's doing with this situation of the draino plus the pen plus trying to strangle and shoot him in the process. How many times did he have to think about it? How many times did he have this man's life in his fucking hands? Right?

I forgot about the strangling too goodness, this por okay? But then and then his son died though too, right, So he's like survived all of this and his son still died, correct, which.

Is I don't know, well as horrific. This is, like I said, It started to make news rather quickly, and luckily for police. Only hours after the news broke they had an anonymous phone call come in. Okay, it was

And who was this story?

He was a what he was employed at the air Force really the local air Force?

Oh my gosh.

Yeah, so someone from the air Force called in and said, yes, someone I work with said this to me a couple months ago.

Wow. To even say that aloud to anyone, Yeah, and.

Then loan and behold here a couple months later, the stores robbed and people died seems a little convenient, no, kidding, little suss. It was, of course an interesting lead, for sure, But this statement like that, it's not necessarily anything without evidence to back it up, right, Because mean, sure someone can say that, someone could literally even intend it.

People say weird shit all the time.

Yeah, but even if he intended to do it, even if he says, yes, I'm going to do this, who's to say someone else didn't do it before him? Yeah, where's the proof to say he did it?

Yeah?

Exactly, So you need evidence to go along with it. This is where the police would find their second stroke of luck. Only a couple hours after they received that phone call, another one came in, and it was with the evidence they needed. Two teenage boys just so happened to be dumpster diving near the air Force base, and while doing so, they managed to find wallets and purses that contained the idea of the victims from the Hi

Geez, right where they probably expected to.

Find something exactly. So now you have someone saying, this employee here said he was going to do it. Oh, by the way, in the same spot is evidence from the fucking robbery.

Wow, that is that's They probably did not expect it like that, to find that sort of evidence that right off the get go right, No.

I don't think so. So detectives of course went out right away, and when they arrived in the scene, they began to start pulling things out of the dumpster, and a crowd started to gather rather quickly of Air Force based employees. So being smart, this is actually genius. These guys won an award for their geniusness on this later on. But the detectives knew that the men responsible were likely in the crowd watching the dumpster evidence being proud.

Oh my gosh, okay, this is I'm getting excited here. They're like thinking shit through.

Yeah. So, as they're pulling evidence out of the dumpster, this crowd is gathering, and the detectives are like, I guarantee you the fuckers are watching us right here, right now. Wow, they're in this fucking crowd. So they made a show of it. Using a pair of tongs, they pulled pieces of evidence from the dumpster one by one, holding them high in the air and making a very big dramatic scene about it, trying to build up as much tension as they could, so all the while they were watching

Seriously, Hey, that I don't know why. I don't think I would have ex Okay, well, this is probably why I'm not like a homicide person. But like our investigator is that I wouldn't have expected the people to be in the crowd for some reason. But it makes so much sense.

It does well, they say a lot of the time they returned to the scene of the crime, sort of yeah, and this is probably that portion of it.

Yeah.

So those two men were men by the name of William Andrews, which is already the one who was called in and Dale Selby Pierre. Now one of the men, like I said, was already identified, and because of all the stuff that was going on the phone call the evidence their strange behavior, they were able to get a search warrant to quickly search the barracks that they were staying in on the property.

Wow.

And of course the search for evidence continued. Police would find a couple of interesting things, one being flyers for the Hi Fi shop, which it doesn't say a lot, but it's an interesting piece, right, and the other was a rental agreement for a storage unit under the name of Dale Selby Pierre. Upon searching said storage unit, they found all the stolen equipment from the high Fi shop,

Oh my gosh, seriously, why I'm surprised that they would have kept the draino Yeah, in the storage unit like that, I agree, probably because they figured it had like or like murder evidence on there. Yeah.

So now they had this Pierre guy Dale, I guess i'll call him Dale Dale Selby. I don't know if that's his full name, the two names or if it's but I'll just call him Dale. So they had Dale attached to the storage locker holding it all, and they had the other guy, shoot, what's his name William William attached to the evidence and possibly actually being called in from you know, the robbery slash killing any one who gets in my way.

Yeah, who's kind of already admitted that he was planning this to someone.

Yeah. So both men look suspicious and both men are officially linked to it. So this was far enough evidence for both of them, and they were immediately arrested. Now thankfully shortly after one of them would talk and give up a getaway driver by the name of Keith Roberts, who was also apprehended. With all the evidence collected against the three men, they were charged with first degree murder and aggravated robbery. A joint trial would take place on

Oh geez.

So they had repeatedly watched a film called Magnum Force from nineteen seventy three.

Okay, because I was just like, how back then would you I mean, now people will probably like google it, which is so fucked up.

Yeah, but back then it was movies. It was Hollywood movies. Okay, So Magnum Force in the movie depicts a sex worker being forced to drink draino and as a result, she immediately drops dead.

Oh my gosh. Really that's how it just like showed in the movies. There was no suffering, like just like, well.

I didn't, I don't. I'm not going to claim I've actually seen the movie myself, but reportedly that's how it goes down.

So they were like, oh, this is just easy and cheap. Dreno's cheap, Like, let's just do this exactly.

So that's what they thought, Well, we'll just make them drink dreno and then it'll be just done and easy. However, that is clearly not the reality of the situation how it works.

I mean, even if you just step back to think about that for a fucking minute. Yeah you would know.

Yeah, I mean, if you're going to be dumb enough to do something like this, I'm pretty sure you'd be dumb enough to believe something like that.

That's true. But I'm just like, gosh, I'm not like the brightest with things, like sometimes call them and send stuff. I like don't always get right away. And but I get this, I'm getting So what.

You're saying is even you understand.

Yeah, wow, I just burned myself.

Yeah, you did really bad. Okay, So moving on though. On November sixteenth, nineteen seventy four, Dale and William were found guilty on all charges, while Keith Roberts was guilty of only the robbery, as reportedly, he was only the getaway driver in the vehicle. Okay, so he was sentenced to five years to life in jail and would eventually be parrolled in nineteen eighty seven. The other two, Dale and William, they were sentenced to death.

So just wait, just to clarify, they're the ones that were doing like the torture to the victims. Then they were allegedly those two.

I've got it written down here. I'm going to explain it all right now, So this is last little bit. So it's, of course, you know, a win that we have these three men convicted. However, the official replete police report states six men, as I already talked about, were involved, driving two vans, Two remained in the cars, two loaded the vans with products. Dale and William were the ones

M and they are the sick bastards.

Yes, only half the people involved were reportedly caught, but at the very least it is the two responsible for the heinous acts against like the victims and everything. They are, as you put it, the sick bastards. So yeah, that is the Hi Fi murders.

I'm surprised that the other three names didn't get that those other people that they held.

Them so am I Actually I was kind of intrigued on that, and I kind of maybe want to do a bit more of a deeper dive on how Keith was his name was brought up and why they didn't bring up the other names.

So sentenced to death. Yes, are they dead?

They are? Okay, Courtney who was shot in the head and survived, he unfortunately would later pass away, but he did outlive those two men.

Okay. Well jeez, that is.

Oh.

It kind of reminds me a little bit of like the yogurt shop murders case that we did, where it's just like people.

They burned that place, download didn't they?

I think so, yeah, But I mean in that one, it doesn't necessarily like a robbery. I'm I don't know. I mean, I guess this store would have a lot of like equipment that they could potentially sell for money. It's just interesting choice doing it for money or I mean just a lot of the high end equipment in there.

Yeah, record players and big speakers and stuff. And it was a lot more expensive back in the seventies too for that equipment, right, I guess. Yeah, And like you look at speakers and stuff. Now you can go to Walmart and get like a Bluetooth speaker for fifty bucks. But no, we're talking like big high tech amplifier type speakers that they're They're not cheap, or at least they weren't back in their day. And good stuff nowadays still isn't cheap.

Yeah, yeah, and it's I don't know, I'm just surprised, like this, this whole case is surprising me, just the how brutal it is, and like they not have just gone and broken in and done all the shit later, you know, Like yeah, yeah, it just seems so unnecessary, like it does.

Like you say, thoughhy didn't they just wear a mask. Force these two workers into a freaking closet, start stealing stuff. More people come along, keep forcing them into a closet. They don't see your identity, you're wearing a mask, steal a shit and move on.

Yeah, yeah, because it's one thing to rob something a place, but then to also be like doing all these murders and at the same that's next level disgusting.

Yeah, completely unnecessary.

Yeah.

Well, I'm not just saying that murdering sometimes is necessary, No, that's definitely not what I mean. But escalating it like that, like why you could still have everything that you wanted and it's just not necessary in any way, shape or form.

Okay, Yeah, I knew very I knew very little about that. I think the main thing that I had remembered was the consuming of the dreno.

Yeah, yeah, So what about the pen Do you remember that one ring a bell?

No? Actually, no, no.

I can't imagine how that would feel because I'm pretty sure like the pen if you think about it going in and ear and having to stick out the side of someone's throat, it would have had to turn sideways and go on downwards from his ear down to that same side of his throat.

Yeah, I mean, he probably didn't. I can't imagine that he could hear out of that ear after.

No, it did go all the way through to the other side, and it would have gone in a weird angle.

I have no I I'm just hoping that he was like in shock and at that stage and like maybe didn't feel all the pain that would have been endured.

Oh man, I can't imagine. Oh yeah, I really hope, like you say, he didn't feel at all.

Shock would would help brutal that is a brutal one in.

The trial actually, or in the one with the penanies here he would be a crucial part of the testimony as well, so he would take stand and he would speak against them.

Good for him, Yeah, yeah, that's like that's one of the ultimate I just feel like fuck you moments.

Like ultimate fucking moments for sure. Yeah, when one of the victims is the one who puts those perpetrators away. Yeah, fucking love it.

Yeah, ever, that is so good. Yeah, well well done, thank you. That would have been an interesting one to research, for sure.

It was took me a little longer than normal, that's for sure.

Yeah. Well there's a lot to it. Yeah, like when there's the more victims and more like assholes, like more assholes.

Well upwards of six assholes in this one. Yeah, so that's a lot of assholes.

Three of them just like live in their life.

Yeah.

You have to wonder if the four of them knew to the extent of what was going on downstairs or like what the plan was. You know, I kind of hoped. I feel like I want to not think they did, but I'm going.

To assume at the very least the getaway drivers didn't because they're out in the vehicle. They have no idea what inside even looks like. They're just ready in the vehicle at all times. Yeah, the guys stealing the equipment maybe, but.

They probably, like the getaway drivers, still could have known the plan was to murder them and stuff though.

Most likely because clearly they shared that plan with who fucking just co work months ago. Right, yeah, I'm gonna kill people that night whoever.

I fucking run into that coworker too. You have to be like, I mean, in no way, shape or form, is is his fault. But then later, hearing that, you would be like, oh my gosh, like he was being serious, like almost I wish I would have reported this or something.

Yeah, but what do you do in reporting something like that?

Yeah, you would almost feel weird and I don't even think they might not even take you seriously. Oh my coworker was just like joking around and like said that he was going to do this.

Yeah, and the guy's like, I didn't say that. Yeah, Now it's your word against his on hypotheticals that have not come to fruition or anything. Nothing's going to be, nothing's gonna happen, right.

Yeah, he really probably couldn't have done anything. No, so dang yep.

But I mean maybe if he did say something, maybe they wouldn't have taken it seriously, and like, yeah, nothing's gonna happen, but the very least maybe it would have stopped him from doing it.

Scared him off from doing it because now the authorities not have heard of this.

Yeah, so it's so hard to say jeez.

Hmm, okay, so more of the story, like just find a parking spot downtown.

No, moral of the story is don't be a dick. Yes, that's always the moral of the story when it comes to true crust, be a dick.

But then I also just feel so bad for that one guy that like really didn't need to be there. I mean, I feel bad for them all, but you know what.

I mean, all of them. The two employees were just leaving. Yeah, the friends just popped in to say thanks. The mother and father were just coming and checking in for their kids. Like it's all because those guys were just fucking assholes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't even know what to say. Just brutal just yeah.

Well, like I said, moral of the story, don't be a dick. Dick, but you guys can be awesome and continue listening. Give us support, go give us a rating. Check out our links below. Check out the other podcast that we have podcasts, Fearful Being. That is a new podcast. If you give it a search, it might be a little difficult to find right away, so give a little bit of a scroll. See if you can find it, give it a listen, let us know what you think.

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We try and save the rambling afterwards, right, rather than like an intro rambling.

So yeah, so until next week, stay wicked.