Hey everyone, it's Nicole and it's Ben and you are listening to Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast morning. The following podcast contains granting content and material intend more your audience listener discretion.
I controlled myself.
You controlled yourself, how so?
Because I wasn't all a true podcast crime. I just said it like a normal person.
Anytime you do that reminds me of like a car going by the true Okay, so.
There you go, well done, Welcome to Wicked and Grim in Happy New Year? Okay? Is this our Happy New Year one? The first of the new year? Uh?
Yeah, it's only January third? Right now? Is we're recording? Oh shit, yeah, it's twenty twenty two right now?
Okay, Well, shoot, I could have started.
With a Happy New Year, but she didn't.
But I didn't. I missed it. I dropped the ball.
We could redo and I could just down this beer and open another one.
Sure, let's do it?
Should we? No forest alcoholism? Why not?
Look at you? I'm drinking flavored water.
That's slightly disappointing. I know what that's like. Asponsible is that's what it is. It's responsible.
I need to drink more water.
Fair enough, fair enough. I'm sure a lot of people. Mica is lapping up water over here. I don't know if you guys can hear it, clearly heard new Year's resolution is to drink more water too.
Yeah, and she's very loud.
She is extremely loud. When she drinks, she makes a giant mess water all over the floor. Yeah. So that's what it's like living in a tiny home with Mika creating puddles in our house that we step in.
And she's never quiet, never, never, never.
So do you have a New Year's resolution? We haven't talked about New Year's resolutions.
Yet in our house.
You mean, yeah, you and I have not talked New Year's resolution. Do we have New Year's resolutions going? Well?
I kind of posted some actually, and what were they, even though I should probably know them?
No kidding, if their your own New Year's resolution.
Okay, I don't really do New Year's resolutions per se.
I don't really.
Yeah, almost at any time in the year, you should be trying to improve or and stuff like. I don't think it just has to be done at the beginning of the year.
Oh yeah, And I was like, oh, well, I didn't do it in January, so I'll just wait till next fucking.
Year, like restart whenever you want, right exactly. It's kind of my thought, but I definitely want to be I had to somebody will putting myself a bit more first, because I overbooked myself.
Immensely for your business.
Photography, like.
It really is it really fucking is.
So to basically like schedule downtime a little bit more for for wah.
That's a good call. Good call. Mine is to hopefully nurse my arm back to health so I can go to the gym, right because for those who don't know, I I have like ten and night it's like tennis elbow like crazy in my arm. So I'm really hoping to nurse that so I can go back to the.
Gym lift some weights.
Yeah.
If we can't even go back to the gym until.
Maybe yeah COVID because.
They're closed because of COVID.
Yeah, life. Well, instead of going to the gym, how about setting sail on the high seven seas today?
Sure?
Sure, sure, because that's what we're doing in today's podcast.
Okay, let's hear it.
So coming up, I've got some pretty gruesome stories coming down the ye. So I thought you know what, I better mix in some not so gruesome.
Ones, right, We've been talking about that actually, so.
This is definitely a not so gruesome one. Okay, this is an unsolved this is a mystery. This may very well not even be a crime, but it could be. Who knows.
It's intriguing.
So let's set the scene, shall we.
Okay, let's do it.
Okay. I just got to say that was really fucking smooth with my hood as I that we have.
Only people can see what you're doing.
Right, I got it, my hoodie on. I just like, as I said, set the scene. I just flipped my hood out. I'm perfectly landed over top of my headphones. Everything like business time.
Basically, it's business. It's business time, motherfucker.
We're talking about the seven season business time.
Yeah.
Okay, so here we go. Imagine setting sail on that open sea. Not today, though, go back in time a bit. We're gonna go to the eighteen hundreds, talking wooden ship, you know, with the Grand Masses, that sort of thing. Everyone's exploring the world, hauling cargo to places where the residents have never seen such good from other nations. The waves crash against the wooden hull of your ship as you work long days in the in the sun, being
misted by the cool ocean water. Slowly the sun begins to set on that horizon with nothing but water surrounding you, or so you thought, until you spot something off in the distance, another ship. Something isn't right, though it's not just another ship per se. The ship is moving erratically and in a very odd path. Your ship gets closer, and soon you're able to see that the sails aren't set, and that there are ropes dangling from the masses in
a way that you know it just shouldn't be. Finally, you notice that you don't see anyone manning the ship. Not a single person is on deck. No one's manning the sale or even at the wheel. The ship is drifting on its own. You and some of your crew board the vessel to investigate, and you don't find a single person left on board. The ship has lost its
crew somewhere, and somehow you thought you know. The thought crosses your mind that as you scan the horizons for survivors, is your ship destined to be abandoned as you're swallowed by the sea, or is there someone or something out there watching and waiting for their moment to do the same to you on your ship.
Wow.
So this is the story of the ghost ship known as the Mary Celeste.
See I've never heard of this.
No, I don't know.
Is it well known?
You say in the ship commute Unity. It is definitely a large tale, let's put it that way.
Okay. Well, I think I've announced it on here that I kind of will avoid ships.
Why do you avoid ships?
Well, I would never go, like on a cruise ship.
Oh yeah, okay, yeah, I know that.
Yeah, because this ship would could happen.
The ocean is scariest.
Okay, I'll swim in the woa. Yeah, I swim and there I think.
Ish. Well, okay, I'm going to do a really quick Google search here because this is something I actually should have looked up, but I didn't.
Like.
What percentage of the ocean is unexplored?
It's very high, right.
Oh, it's ridiculous, ridiculously.
High, because that's so scary, like there's things living in there that we don't even know what they are.
Oh yeah, we're discovering new species like on the daily. More than eighty percent of the oceans remain unexplored.
Yeah no, yeah, no, I do like oceans. I love being by the ocean, but it does like terrify the ship.
I love being the ocean, I sure as hell don't love being in the ocean.
Remember, like when we've gone away, we've gone snorkeling and stuff, and we were okay with it. Yeah, I don't know.
You're protected by like coral reefs and shit.
Yeah, they're taking you to good areas and stuff.
At least we think. Dun, dun, dude. Yeah, okay, but yeah, snorkeling in like fifteen twenty feet of water is a little bit different than being like two hundred plus feet of water.
Could still happen. Oh fuck yeah, bud, And fifteen twenty feet Remember that.
One fish that scared the shit out of me and Jamaica was following you, It was fucking following me. It was okay, this little fucking fish it was I'm going off on the story here. I'm sorry. This fish was maybe two and a half feet long. It was super skinny, it was it probably weighed I don't know, three pounds at best.
Like it was small.
It was small, and it was kind of like it was like a barracouted looking motherfucker. But it was not a barracuda, but it looked like a barracuda. But it was not a barracuda. Okay, and I think it had if I recall correctly, I had five black dots down its body. But this fucking thing was following me as I was snarkling, and it was giving me the fucking stanky. It was like, what the fuck you do?
Curious?
Either that or it wanted to kick my ass one or the other. And I'm pretty sure this three pound fish could have kicked me. Probably it was. I was. It was mean mugging me, and it was doing that for like a good ten to fifteen minutes.
Yeah.
At one point I'm like, you know what, fuck this, I'm out. So that shows how I am in the ocean.
Okay, so I think we're the same.
Yeah, oh my gosh. Okay. Anyways, So the first board the Future Mary Celeste, or sorry, here we go. The first board of the Future Mary Celeste, was laid in eighteen sixty at the shipyard of Joshua DUIs in the village of Spencer's Island on the shore of the Bay of Fundy in Nova Scotia, Canada.
I was like, I know that place.
You do, never been there, but we know it.
Yeah, just rang a bell.
I was like, oh yeah. The ship was constructed of locally felled timber, classic for Canadian We have a lot of very huge forest industry here and was what you'd call a bricotine and that's known as a ship with two masts. So the masks are the straight up parts that hold the sales, right righte. She was And I say she because it was a tradition and is to
consider ship's female, referring to them as she. Although it may sound strange like referring to them as an odd referring to an inanimate object as a she, Sorry, it relates to like the idea of a female figure, such as like a mother or a goddess guiding and protecting the ship and cruse sort of thing. Okay, so it was. It was like a term of endearment, a praise if anything sort of thing.
But I think we do that with a few things. Really, it doesn't seem super abnormal to me.
Oh well we do, and that's where it derives from.
Right.
So yeah, So she was Carville built, which means the hull planks were laid edge to edg edge to edge and fastened to the frame rather than overlapping like shingles on a house. So just like you would lay down like floor planks in your house, edge to edge, that's kind of how the outside of the hull was laid. Okay, It's kind of like forming a smooth, smooth surface, right.
Her construction was completed and she was officially launched on May eighteenth, eighteen sixty one, given the name Amazon, and registered at a nearby pasborrow on June tenth, eighteen eighty or eighteen sixty one. So she was not known as the Mary Celeste just yet. She was known as the Amazon.
So it only it took them on like a year to build.
That, you know, I didn't compare the years. Yeah, about a year, okay.
Interesting.
So the Amazon was nineteen point three feet long nineteen ninety nine. I am going through airs.
I was like, oh, that's not very long.
Point three feet long, my apologies, twenty five point feet wide, with a depth of eleven point seven feet and weighs in at almost two hundred grossed tonnage.
Wow.
So yeah. She was owned by a local concertorium of nine people, and among the co owners was Robert McLean McLellan. Sorry McClellan, the ship's first ever captain, but certainly not her last. H for her maiden voyage in June. On eighteen sixty one, the Amazon sets sail to the Five Islands, which is a rural community in Nova Scotia, Nova Scotia. I am stumbling today. I am so sorry, beers k. I have drank four SIPs of this one. Maybe that's the problem I need to drink.
You can't blame it on that, right, And.
This community has like approximate population of about three hundred. I don't know if that's current or back then. I would assume it's current. I didn't do my research on that. It's not too important to take the cargo of the timber of timber for a passage across the Atlantic Ocean to London. That's quite a journey, definitely is right across the Atlantic now. After supervising the ships loading, Captain McClellan
began to fall ill. He is reported to have had a bad fever, shortness of breath, and coughing a lot. Some of the crew even to have reported seeing bits of blood and mucus in the captain's handkerchief as he barked orders to the crew between coughing fits. Oh no, yeah, his condition didn't get any better.
In fact, it got worse, So he doesn't even get to really be like legit captain.
No. I mean technically he saw it's made and voyage begin.
Yes, but I mean, like I think that your the voyage would be like them aotan.
Yes, for sure. All he managed to do was go from Nova Scotia to Nova Scotia basically because he set sail out to get the timber, and then after that they return home in Spa Island rather than going ahead with its delivery, and there once a return home. Captain McClellan died.
On June nineteenth Boo, Yeah, that sucks.
This, however, is where the story really starts. This marked the beginning of the bad luck that would fall upon the ship, and for some the moment when Captain McClellan's spirit imbued itself into the ship and cursing it forever.
Oh so they think that he came back.
To haunt it. Some say there's no reports of a haunting per se, but some said, yeah, like the ship was cursed. Kind of huh.
Interesting.
Now, a man by the name of John Nutting Parker took over as Captain Nutting.
Okay, I was like, how did you just say that?
I almost I tried to keep going, but then yeah, I had I had to.
You couldn't.
No, I couldn't. I just couldn't. So a man by the name of John Nutting Parker took over his captain soon after and resumed the voyage to London, in the course of which the Amazon encountered further misadventures. She collided with fishing equipment and the narrows of Eastport, Maine, and after leaving London, ran into and sank a brig in the English Channel, literally colliding with another ship.
Okay, sorry, this is the new captain. Yes, so that doesn't seem like a good resume.
Three major mishaps on his maiden voyage. Yeah, definitely not a good resume. Like Captain No No Geigers Now. Captain Parker remained in command for two years, during which the Amazon worked mainly in the West Indies trade. In nineteen sixty three, Captain Parker was succeeded by Captain William Thompson, who remained in command until eighteen sixty seven. These were quiet years, apparently not a thing unusual happened in October
of eighteen sixty seven at Cape Breton Island. The Amazon, However, he was driven ashore in a storm, and it was so badly damaged that her owners simply abandoned her as a wreck. Seriously, Yeah, just now, fuck that, I'm I'm out exactly. Oh my gosh, that was fucking weird. My phone just started listening to us. What do you mean it like talking to Google? It just started listening to it. It just started like showing the words we were talking.
Cool.
That's fucking that. Thanks Google for listening to us. That's great.
Well, the literally everything I know.
It's it's just creepy when it doesn't care to hide it, you know, it's like, yeah, I'm listening to you. What are you gonna fucking do about it? Anyways, So she didn't stay a wrec for long though, however. On October fifteenth, she was acquired as a derelict, which essentially is a legally illegal abandoned purchase.
Okay, so they still have to purchase it though, Hey, yes, why who are they giving the money to?
Well, think of it as like the bank sort of thing, right.
Oh, Like it's a foreclosure.
Almost yeah, some kind of like that. I didn't go into two. It looked like it was a complicated thing to look into. I'm like, fuck that, it's minor details, that is yea. So someone by the name of Alexander McBean, McBean, McBean, look at these names.
We love it.
He purchased it legally. Now, within a month, Alexander had turned around and sold the wreck for a profit to a local businessman, who in November of eighteen sixty eight sold it again to Richard W. Haynes, an American mariner from New York. Now. Haynes paid a total of one thousand, seven hundred and fifty dollars for the wreck, which is equivalent approximately to fifty one thousand, seven hundred and fifty four dollars US dollars. Sorry, all this is US dollars today.
And then he spent eight hundred and twenty five dollars restoring it, which is equivalent to two one hundred and sixty thousand, nine hundred and forty five US dollars. So essentially he spent three hundred thousand dollars on this ship.
Okay, because I felt like at first like he got it for a pretty good price. I mean, yes, I guess if it was completely trash, I.
Mean it is a wreck, so that's true. So he made himself captain and in December of eighteen sixty eight registered her with the Collector of Customs in New York as an American vessel under the new name Mary Celeste. So here we are with the Mary Celeste that we know the ship. Then, Oh well, I totally just accidentally changed fonts. Sorry, I don't know how I did that. That was magic. Shit's weird today, guys. I'm sorry.
You're not having any luck over They.
Fucking curse of this ship. It's it's coming through this podcast.
She brought this into our home.
I think I might have.
Oh I hate that.
This is fucking this is creepy shit. It's like this should have been a Halloween episode right here, our souls lessing. My computer's doing fucking magic.
Nothing else better happened or I'm out?
Really that easy? Sorry? Oh my gosh, Oh no, the font's changing again. Peace. Okay, welcome to vick Ingram, where we talk about stupid ship. Anyways. The ship then went again through new ownership as the tails of its mishaps and rumors of the curse followed it around. Oh okay, for many it wasn't anything more than a tail. However, it went under a bit more of an upgrade with
its new purchaser. They enlarged her considerably. Her length is increased to one hundred and three feet, her width was twenty five point seven feet, and her depth was sixteen point two feet, and a second deck was also added.
That almost just seems like building an entirely new ship.
I know, I don't understand how to just make a ship longer, wider, and deeper.
I don't get that at all.
Makes no sense to me.
But I mean, sure, okay, yeah, that doesn't make because it's not like it's a house that you just like add on to. Really, yeah, I just add on to a boat like that, because it has to have like certain curves and stuff, right, I think.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I have no fucking clue. I am not a shipbuilder by trade, nor am I a on tour. What do you have?
Every other hobby under the sun?
I like doing stuff.
Maybe you should add this one to it.
Maybe I should welcome to Awaken a Graam where we talk about true grand podcasts and build.
Ships today and next summern build a ship.
Okay, we need to get back on track here. We we're off topic today a lot. On October twenty ninth, eighteen seventy two, the ship's new owner was that of James H. Winchester and her new captain Benjamin Spooner Briggs. That name, I gotta say, I might be biasedle bit because his name is Benjamin and I'm a ben But Benjamin Spooner Briggs, that is a dope fucking name.
What's his last name? Sorry?
Briggs?
Briggs? Strong?
Right? So. Briggs was born in Warream, Massachusetts, on April twenty fourth, eighteen thirty five, one of five sons of sea captain Nathan Briggs. All but one of the sons went to sea, two becoming captains. His son Arthur was born on September eighteen sixty five, and daughter Sophia Matilda on October of eighteen seventy. Now, by the time of
Sophia's birth, Briggs had achieved a high standing within his profession. Nevertheless, he considered retiring from retiring from the sea to go on to business with his seafaring brother Oliver, who had also grown tired of the wandering life. They did not proceed with this project, though, but instead each invested in their savings in a share of a ship, Oliver in Julia A. Halleck and Benjamin investing in a share of the Mary Celeste, so he was technically part owner of
the ship. You're following, I definitely am following. You're just like yawning and nodding.
No, it's just because it's late.
It is late.
That's also wicked Ingram's style.
I know, I know, last minute.
But that we at least we're always geting. We get them out right. That's mostly we didn't.
We do now. On October eighteen seventy two, Benjamin Benjamin Briggs all right, I love that name, took command of the Mary Celeste for her first voyage to Genova in Italy, following her extensive New York refit. Joining him on the journey was his wife and infant daughter, while his school
age son was left at home with his grandmother. Now Captain Briggs chose the crew for his voyage with care, and it included his first mate, Albert G. Richardson, who is married to a niece of the Winchester, who owned the vessel and had sailed under Briggs before. With no other preparations needed. The ship began its fateful voyage on November seventh, eighteen seventy two, sailing with a crew of ten individuals, including Captain Benjamin and his family.
Oh okay, so that's ten people's including the wife and one kid.
Yes, there's Captain Benjamin Briggs, his wife and daughter, and then seven crew members.
Okay, interesting.
Yeah, the ship battled heavy weather on its journey, and it carried seventeen hundred I think it's technically seventeen hundred and one, but seventeen hundred barrels of crude industrial alcohol as its shipment. It was December fifth, eighteen seventy two, however, that the ship was spotted on the open Sea, about four hundred miles east of Azora's Island in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean by another ship by the British brig del Gratti.
Okay, so sorry, I need to get this straight on.
Which day they left on November.
Seventh, and then they were found floating. The ship was found floating on December fifth. Yes, okay, I don't know why, but I just needed to get that straight in mind.
You got it about a month, about a month.
A month, Okay, hold on, I have to also to say that'd be like so eerie, like to be in the middle of the freaking ocean and then you're coming across this boat that just like doesn't look right and stuff like most like nightmare material.
That's fucking nightmare material for sure. Yeah, especially once we get into theories here, you'll really start like couldn't imagine. But we got to get through the story first before
we get to those theories. The juicyness. So, when crew members spotted the ship adrift in an aimless course with the choppy sea, Captain David Moorehouse, who was the captain of the British brig the De Gratti, was taken aback to discover the unguided vessel was the Mary Celeste, which had left New York eight days before him and should have already arrived in Genova, Italy. He quickly changed course to head over to see if it needed eight nice guy.
Upon approach, they found the erratic motion of the boat was because there was no one manning it. There was no one at the sails or the masts, no one at the wheel or even on deck. The sails were hung as if the crew simply stopped mid job and never finished, so they were partially hung. There's also reports of there being some damage to the sails and the mass, though how extensive it was I couldn't find.
But that could just have been from the floating there.
For exact And there was definitely rough seas around this time too, so it could have been unmanned sails and stuff not being tied down, flapping in the wind, ship breaking right totally. So the reports that I could find, though minimum didn't think it wasn't extensive damage, kind of superficial stuff like a little bit of shit broken here and there, Okay, because.
They probably don't don't know how long it was really floating. Oh they demand, Oh they do, Okay, they.
Do because all ships have a log, captain's log.
Oh.
Interesting, Yeah, we'll get into that. Though. Captain Morehouse sent aboard a party to the ship below deck, the ship's charts had been tossed about and some navigation equipment was missing.
The crewmen's belongings were still in their quarters, though the ship's only lifeboat was also missing, and a frayed rope dangled in the water behind the ship and one of its two pumps in the hull of the boat had been disassembled, so the pumps to like pump out water that ship's taking board, because it's very normal, you know, a little bit of leak here and there, rain splashing over that sort of stuff.
Yeah, and sorry, that was gone.
One of the two pumps had been disassembled.
Okay.
Yeah, and three and a half feet water was slashing about in the bottom of the ship.
Oh okay.
On top of all this, though the cargo of seventeen hundred barrels of alcohol was largely intact. There were six months supply of food and water, but not a single soul to consume it. Its log book shows nothing noted of any disturbances or anything was out of line. Its last entry was also eleven days before being found.
Oh geez, that's a long time.
Yeah. That basically means that it had either been drifting alone for those eleven days, or whatever happened had eleven days to take place.
Kay. And I also have to say too that it's oh whoa, my train of thought got distracted there.
You good.
I also feel like it's almost amazing that it got found or that someone crossed its path, because if it had been just like, I don't know, go and drift for like eleven days or however long or whatever. It could never have been found, really.
That's true. It would eventually have run a s and would have eventually have been found, or it would have eventually been capsized and never found exactly. Yeah. So it is actually surprising, and it's very surprising that someone found it on the open ocean like that. Yeah, so the odds are slim, pretty slim. Now where am I at? Okay?
The de Gratti crewman split up with some of the crew on its own ship, and some went over to the Mary Celest and sailed the ship some eight hundred miers two miles to Gibraltar, where a British Vice Admiral court convenced. That's a sentence and a half where a
British Vice admiral court convened a salvage hearing. There we go, which is usually limited to determining whether the salvagers in this case that a Gratti crewmen were entitled to payment from the ships insurers, because insurance is very much a thing here.
Okay, so I'm actually surprised. I mean, what would you do? I guess you'd have to bring it back. Eh.
Yeah, so they split up and piloted both of the ships ashore. Okay, but the Atturne General, however, in charge of the inquiry, Frederick solely Flood suspected mischief and potential fraud and investigated accordingly. However, after more than three months, the court found no evidence of foul play.
Oh like thought these people might.
Have done something potentially.
Yes, oh that is interesting. I ever went there, but that.
Yeah, yeah, so there is no evidence but yeah. Anyways, Eventually the salvagers received a payment, but only one sixth of the forty six thousand dollars, which is ship's cargo, had been insured, suggesting that authorities were not entirely convinced. That's the de Grotti crew were innocent.
Okay, that's just shit. Here, you're like almost doing a good deed. Really, you could have just left it there and just gone on your way, and here you brought it to shore and they're like fuck you or something.
Bad, or they really did do something bad. They could have they could have. There is also reports of like because they knew the captain had left New York eight days before them. The captains knew each other. They're like, he knew the course, he knew where he was going, So there is potential for premeditation there, just to be.
Getting insurance money kind of thing, really would be or unless there's bad blood.
Yeah, well forty six thousand dollars then to now.
Is that what they got or do they get one sixth of that?
Oh, they got one six of it, But forty six thousand dollars is what it was insured for.
Okay, and they probably thought they would have gone more potentially too.
Yeah, exactly, I'm looking up that in US dollars today, see if I can find it. So that is approximately one million dollars in insurance money.
So okay, that's a lot of money.
That's that's definitely enough to get some to me. I'm sure to commit for all.
Yeah, I think so, actually, because I don't know when you're saying these amounts, it's kind of like whatever. But then yeah, you have to think about.
Exactly time and yeah. So since then, though, the whereabouts of the crew on board the Mary Celest has never been discovered, and what happened to them can only be up for speculation. Now Through the decades, any lack of facts have only spurred speculation as to what might have taken place in theories, of course, have surfaces surfaced, and those theories range from mutiny to pirates to even sea monsters. Oh god, so I'm.
Not going to enjoy these theories.
If you are ready, let us get into some of these theories. You good for it?
Yeah, I'm totally good.
Before we do, though, I want to hear what you have to think. What would have happened to the Mary celest What do you got? What do you think?
I don't know, because I guess my thought is that it would be very easy to hide bodies in the ocean. Oh yeah, Like how many dead bodies have been hid in the ocean? Right?
Oh?
Count with a disgusting amount. So I would have to say that I think it was definitely by someone just doing because if it was like weather related or something like, I think that it would show more damage to the boat or whatever. Right, I don't know that that meant. Now that you said a little bit more about that other captain, I'm like, oh, because it would be so easy for them to do that. It would be because they're the ones bringing it back and stuff, and they can stage everything.
Right now, A little bit to add on to that I should have mentioned this already. Eight days. I did say he was eight days ahead of the other ship, right, eight days to catch up to a ship like that
like damn near impossible. Okay, So the fact that's kind of like assumed that that's not really a plausible assumption that it was fraud, because the chances of that ship being able to catch up being eight days behind is pretty much like, yeah, no, it's got to be like if you catch up, that they would have had to have fucked up their path.
Where they may be thinking they'd crossed their pass when they were coming home or going and coming home or something.
Well, if they're coming home, they wouldn't have had their their shipment would have been so more than likely it's not insurance fraud. But that doesn't mean it's not possible.
Yeah, I mean, my first thought wasn't what it wasn't then, But let me hear these other theories and I'm going to guess again.
Okay, Well, let's start on the mutiny. Of course, this could be anyone for any reason, but the most popular individual, well, there are there are two. There is a fictional one. There is a book written about this story. A fictional book where a slave path boards the ship as part of the crew and offs everybody as part of a revenge thing.
So, okay, I also don't think it's pirates. Just realize something.
You don't think it's pirates.
Because I think they would have taken everything exactly.
Yeah, but we'll talk about that one gets pirates. There's another one that comes to mutiny, and we're talking about our dear old Captain Benjamin Spooner Briggs. Now, see, was a very religious and I mean very religious man. He would spend most of his spare time reading the Bible, memorizing passages, and even quoting verses to his crew when
he gave out orders. The theory goes that in some sort of sea sickness or madness, Briggs became delusional and clung to his religion for that like life raft sort of thing. Now, perhaps he saw his crew as demons of some delusions, or maybe he thought he heard the voice of angels. But for whatever divine reason he thought he was doing, he slayed each and every one of his crew members one by one and through their bodies overboard,
including his family. Then, not being able to man a ship by himself, set off on the only lifeboat as an escape and was lost at sea.
Okay, well, because you have actually I've heard of people going a little bit looney on the yeah, on the open water like that.
Eh, definitely, it's a real thing.
Well, I mean, I just think not being in to see land and stuff for so long it doesn't it makes total sense.
Well, and that kind of leads into another kind of a parallel theory with the mutiny, specifically because mutiny is usually like being overthrowing the captain, so these kind of are mutiny esque. But the real mutiny kind of theory is some of the crew got into the alcohol. Now the alcohol is not for consumption, it's industrial use, like fucking isopropo alcohol. Yeah, but you're sailing the seas, seeing the same fucking nine other faces all day and night.
You get in the same sort of sea sickness, the delusions. You want to fucking cut back a little bit and relax. So, you know, you and the other crew members crack open one of the casks down below. You start drinking some industrial alcohol, even though it might make you go blind. Oh good, and for whatever reason you're drunken stupor you think you know what we could man this ship. You know how talk gets when you start drinking. So they
overthrow the captain. And now as you overthrow the captain in mutiny, you are now forced to captain it yourself with a crew who's not used to captain position, and they don't really know what they're doing. They realize they're only option. They can't do this on their own. They see land nearby because there were islands out in the area, and they hitch on the lifeboat and try to hit shore, leaving the ship abandoned and they are lost at sea.
So there's that theory as well. The actual mutiny theory interesting.
I feel like, oh, man, I guess the weather could have if there was any evidence though of like foul play, like blood or anything, though, the weather could have wiped it.
The weather could have wiped it away. And this is very unlikely. I don't think someone would worry about this back then, especially on the sea, if you're going to abandon the ship. But there is potential for them washing it away, because I mean, you have eleven it was found eleven days later. Who's to say someone didn't slay everyone in one day and stayed on there for another five days before they took off right exactly, but more than likely on a rough sea it would have been rain.
It would have been you know, water splashing on board, which probably would have washed away at least majority of blood if it all took place on deck. So now we're going to get to the pirates. This is pretty simple, straightforward. Like you said, you don't think it's pirates. Pirates simply caught up with the ship, boarded it, killing everyone and looted the ship. However, the problem with this go ahead.
They didn't loot.
They didn't loot. There is food, there was personal items, and there was good still on board. And this is pretty much just kind of moot.
This is it would have just been bear. They would have taken everything like that.
This these are some terrible fucking pirates. If their pirates looting this ship, that is true, We're going to take over. What are you taking? Your lives and that lifeboat? Like?
What? Terrible?
Okay, So no, this leads us to the sea monster's done, dun done, this ship lost at sea? Now, how could this not be a theory? Honestly, sea monsters just saying, now, imagine a colossal squid. Okay, see what that is.
Well, it's kind is it kind of like from pirates to the Caribbean. That's what I'm visioning, some sort of.
Well that was technically that was the kraken technically, but something like that. The kraken is potentially berthed from colossal squid. So you're you're in the right ballpark, but that one was definitely way bigger. However, colossal squid can reach up to lengths of forty six feet.
Holy heck. Okay, sorry, I do not like that visual. No, that's terrifying and way up.
To at least eleven hundred pounds.
Oh my gosh. No, okay, ah, yeah, you're good. Yeah.
Now, imagine the tentacles blasting from the water surface and grabbing someone on the crew right in front of you, someone you work with, getting just sucked into the ocean from one of these tentacles. Worst of all, their tentacles don't just have suction cups. Colossal squids also have barbs that can hook deep into your thresh.
Okay, sorry, this is a real life thing.
Colossal squid is a real life animal.
Holy heck. Okay, this is why I'm afraid of the ocean.
There's very few specimens to have ever been found. But it is a real life animal. I hate that. Now, as you run below deck trying to run from these tentacles, the tentacles follow you as the creature climbs on board, devouring anyone it can get a hold of them. Now, it's said to a lot of deep sea creatures as a colossal squid is. A deep sea creature can go for many times as up or sorry, I can go to as many lengths of up to four years without eating.
So imagine a creature who hasn't eaten four potential of up to four years, coming to surface, clinging on the ship and finding snacks. It is going to feast.
I don't know, though, because I think that there would be areas in the ship that it couldn't get to.
Have you ever seen octopus and squids? They can live, they don't have skeletons. They can squeeze into super tight places.
Hey Ben, you also agree with that.
Nope, definitely not. So it grabs a hold of you as you try and hide. As you try and run, whether you jump overboard or you try and hide on the ship, one of the ways is not better than the other, because you're doomed to either drowned or get eaten one of the two, and eventually, as the squid picks one of you off one by one, there is no one left and it just simply returns to the ocean, leaving a barren ship.
Holy, that one is wild.
Oh so, like the kraken and sea monsters are clearly a thing of fiction, But the colossal squid, like I said, is in fact real and capable of devouring humans. It's just a matter of what are the odds and is it actually likely that this would be the scenario? No, this is very unlikely. An attack on a ship like this, but from a colossal squid has never actually been recorded, And wouldn't.
Know that those are tasty that humans are tasty snacks?
Well, I mean, if it tastes one, it's like lais potato chips, but you can't just have uh So yeah, that's that's the sea monster theory, Though technically possible, very unlikely, probably as unlikely as the horrendous pirates who don't know how to loot now. Another theory states that the alcohol on board could have been the problem, much like the mutiny, the crew drinking the alcohol causing the problem, This causing the problem, but in a little bit of a different way.
Some leaks in the cask could have caused fumes, and fumes like this locked in the hull of ship could have caused one of two things, poisonous conditions on board the ship and even worse, the potential for an explosion. So upon discovering the potential hazard the fumes building up in the hull, Captain Briggs called for an abandoned ship. They all piled in the lifeboat and tethered to a rope behind the ship, letting it air out with the
potential of returning to the ship. Okay, okay, yeah, that is until the rope that's holding your lifeboat attached to the ship snaps and everyone has lost his sea because they did find a frayed rope dragging in the ocean behind the ship.
Wow, that's interesting.
Actually, So that's a crazy one.
That really crazy.
Now. The most plausible theory, however, is one from Anne McGregor, who created the documentary The True Story of Mary Celeste.
Where's this documentary?
I actually didn't get to watch it. I read a lot of articles on it, but I have not watched the documentary myself, so I know the gist of the documentary without watching it. Okay, I want to watch it though it seems pretty good. Now, using current charts from the time of the ship was at sea and logbooks found you know, they discovered that Briggs was actually one hundred and twenty miles west of where he thought he was. He was off course, probably because of an inaccurate chronometer.
By the captain's calculations, he should have cited Land three days earlier than he actually did. Now, when I mean land, I don't mean land like London, I mean land is some of the islands in the air, right, okay? Now. Notes on board also show that the day before he reached the islands nearby, which is the Azara's Islands, Briggs changed course and headed north for Santa Maria Islands, perhaps
seeking haven. So he did change course the night before the last entry on the ship's log, the Merry Celeste again faced rough seas and winds more than thirty five knots. It is also learned that in the ship's history that it is in its previous voyage the Marry Celeste had carried coal, and that ship had recently been extensively refitted that.
We know of, right what does thirty five knots mean.
It's a measurement. Oh okay, okay, measurement of wind speed. I'm not too sure what that calculates out.
To, but yeah, is a rough sea.
Yeah, Coal dust and construction debris could have fouled the ship's pump down below, meaning it would explain why the pump was disassembled. They were trying to fix it. So here we go with a pump unable to pump any incoming water. Captain Briggs would not have known how much seawater was in the ship's hull, it was too fully packed. All he knew was that there was a significant amount of water down there. They were down to one pump, which potentially could not keep up to the influx of
water in the ship. Right at that point, Captain Briggs, having finally and belatedly seeing land, determined there was no way that they could survive on board the ship. It was going to sink potentially, so he made a judgment call, issuing an order to abandon ship to head to the nearby land, where again, when everyone compiled on the lifeboat, they never made it to land, but they were lost at sea, leaving the Marry Celeste unmanned.
Hmmm.
Wow, that is the last and the most significant theory that we have, and that is a story of the Mary Celeste.
What do you think?
I think someone's got a text message bed ive that it's a very insignificant piece of evidence to me. But for whatever reason, that frayed rope in the back is really leading me to say, you know what, there's a good chance they tethered themselves, which they could have tethered themselves to in the sinking ship scenario.
They totally could have.
Actually, yeah, so I'm not too sure. I don't think it was any murderous rampage. I don't think it was really dumb pirates or the unlikely sea monster. I do think it was an abandoned ship for whatever hazard. And yeah, I think Anne McGregor has most likely got the got it, got.
It downpack that's the pump one.
Yeah, she's she's done her research, she's looked at the logs, she's looked at the ocean flow charts and everything, and I think she's got it.
Because, Yeah, as you were first kind of talking, I thought that someone hiding on deck could have been quite a potential. But I also think if if it was a rampage thing, and I have killed everyone was murdered that they would have just been a shit show on deck, like a lot of things would be broken or like knocked over or just like would look. I don't know, so I'm thinking I'm thinking one of these last two.
Yeah, I think most likely. I think if there was murder, there would have been some blood found on.
Board, yeah, like under deck or something.
Because if you're going to murder ten individuals or nine individuals, if you are one of the crew members, if you're going to murder that many people, you're not gonna be able to do it all on an open deck. No, You're going to be getting them one by one in nooks and crannies when they're down below, when they're in their cabin, when they're alone. And that's going to be areas where there's not blood being washed away by water or rain. So I don't think there's any murder's rampage. Yeah,
I don't think there's sea monsters. I don't think there's pirates. I think it was an abandoned ship.
Scenario, which is so sad that they all decided to abandon then die like oh.
Now, potentially it could have been the fact that that one captain from the other ship force them to abandon ship and brought it in the ship in for himself.
Yeah, but then remember he was he would never have passed him. Yeah, so I don't know about that one either.
Unless maybe what if he hired some fucking pirates being like, yo, these guys are going to be out there. No, you know, get him off ship. We'll take it in and we'll get the insurance money and we'll split it.
It's kind of sad that you'll just never know.
Hey, I know, but that is the story.
Well, that's a thinker. You think a lot.
Yeah, it's a thinker, and if you think too much you might get thunk. I don't know if that means anything. I just said it because I don't know.
Yeah, but we'll put a post on Instagram. I'd love to hear what other people think one hundred percent.
Let me let us hear what you have to say, even if you have any theories we didn't discuss, or if you want to add to the conversation, let's hear it in our socials. All the links are where.
They are on Instagram. I'm like, so terrible.
Oh thanks down below the description of this podcast description. Yeah, you can find her Instagram or Facebook, our website. You can buy merch down this is why you do this, And you can sign up for our patreon, be a patron, and if you really want to go, give Nicole some words of encouragement. So maybe one day she can get get some lists like I don't know, conversation out there, and then if I point to her and say where lists, she can actually like get that courage and be like,
I know where the lists. So it's down below on the description of this podcast.
The one problem that I don't know where they are is because like that part of this podcast you do. I need my description, I know, but I've never had to like post a description and like upload it or anything, so it doesn't come naturally to me that I just know that shit's there.
Well now you know it's in the description. Ah, now I know, Now you know? All right, Well, thank you guys for listening. Don't forget to like I said, check out those things in the description below, our patreon, our merch hit us up on Facebook, Instagram. You can also request different stories if you have ideas, let us know. So thanks for listening.
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