Thad Phillips was a regular kid in the nineties. He loves sports and collecting baseball cards, But little did he know one evening would change his world forever. Today's story is the story of Fad Phillips, and it is a survival story, a story about enduring and fighting for one's life. But it's not only that. It's also a story about just how dark humanity really can get.
My name's Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcasting. The following podcasts and material intended for a.
Mature audience listener discretion. He's advised, Oh, it's cold. It's cold, like cold, cold, like colder than it usually is.
For some reason, I see cold.
It is like it's cold on my hands. Or maybe I'm just oh, maybe I'm just warmer than normal because summer is actually finally fucking here. I think that's what it is. Never mind, I solve the problem.
Yay, we have like twenty degree weather.
It's a back so nice, it's finally here. I can't get enough of it, which which we just decided today that we're finally going to go mountain biking because snow is actually gone. Yeah.
Actually, I was driving around today looking for locations for photo shoots, and I was like, why did I not, Like, did I not plan to go paddleboarding for like an hour somewhere? Wrong?
I didn't.
You, I don't know the water would be cold as shit?
Oh yeah for sure.
But so like you would hope that you wouldn't fall in, I guess would you risk that?
Isn't that usually the hope when you go paddle boarding that you don't fall in?
Well, unless you're like wearing your bathing suit, you're ready to.
Go, but then that's just swimming. Yeah, because the point of paddle boarding is to be on the board, is it not?
It is, So I'm debating going paddle boarding as well. But it's like it's a little bit scarier than mountain biking, as if you fall and you're gonna.
Fuck touche toochee. But the point is we're actually gonna be getting to enjoy summer soon, warm outdoor activities, not just cooped up in a tiny home surrounded by snow and darkness. Yeah, so that's always a bonus.
It feels like we're just like breathing in life again.
Hey, oh definitely, And speaking of breathing in, you breathed in many donuts on the weekend.
I did.
I don't know if anyone knows what like mini donuts specifically are from, like a fair, Yeah, like the tiny ones, like the cinnamon sugar on it that.
Are basically just like deep right to glorious.
Yeah, it's basically crack in the shape of a donut. Yeah, delicious. So we just had a local little comic con here this past weekend called Northern Fan Con. I go every year, and you stop buying, and you're just like, oh, you have a little bit of a good time. You see me while I'm there, And of course there was a food truck with mini donuts and you indulged.
Oh yeah, I go. I go every year too, I'm pretty sure. I don't know if I've missed a year. Have I missed a year?
I don't think so. Possibly, But you only go because you support me. Yeah, I'm a nerd dressing up in costumes and selling stuff and doing the whole nine thing.
So yeah, And like, they don't always have many donuts, so that was a perk, but they usually have delicious lemonade, so I yeah, there are some perks for me.
Well, and you did bring me mini donuts too. I shouldn't say you're the only one. You brought me many donuts, so I was really happy.
Yeah, we didn't need those mini donuts, but they hit good.
They did. Before we get into the show today, before we talk a bit about Fad Phillips, we of course got a Thike Patriot thank our patrons, Yes we do. So we had a few patrons sign up this week over on Patreon. We had Dan Kane, Roger Reid and read Autumn join us over on Patreon. Thank you yo, Thank you guys. And they're actually getting awesome. They're getting an extra Patreon episode. They are because we kind of dropped the ball and a little delayed on the episode
from the previous month. Yes, so we're making it up to them. They're getting an extra exclusive episode.
Yeah. So yeah, can we have something else to talk about here? And this is kind of exciting. So we did a second launch of our artisan mugs, we did, Yeah, And so we launched them I don't even know, Friday.
Friday at eight a m. Pacific Standard time.
Okay, and it was not a complete shit show this time.
It wasn't.
And there's still some left there.
Is, so if you guys want them, link is going to be in the description of this podcast. We'll find out how long they last. But there are a few left over on our Etsy shop.
Yeah.
So last time we broke Etsy and they like banned our shop, we had to go ask for it back because they were selling so quick. But this time, the first day went half of them sold and we still got a few left. So go check it out if you want them. Yeah.
So they're a little bit bigger than last time. They're a black pottery mug. They have like glazed drips on them, and they say stay wicked.
They're pretty cool and like most of the cup is still like the raw finish finish on it, which I know is not for everybody. We're probably gonna do some different ones down the road, but for now it's got that like raw look to it and it says stay wicked.
Yeah.
So it's a fantastic way to have your coffee in the morning.
Absolutely.
All right, Well, I think that's enough self promotion aside. Let's talk about the story. You ready for it, Let's do it? Okay, have you heard of bad Phillips?
Now?
No?
I am like I feel like I'm the worst true crime fan ever now because half the shit I just am like, no, I've never heard of it.
Well, I mean there is a lot out there, especially when people like really talk about certain stories. It's everyone has one that tends to sit with them. So it's like, oh, this one, and then someone else be like, oh that one, and then someone else, Oh, well this one. So the list tends to go on and on and on.
There's no shortage of true crime cases. Let's just say that.
Yeah, which I don't think there ever is going to be either, which is very unfortunate.
Yeah. I mean, it gives us a job or a hobby or something or whatever you want to call it, of sorts, but it also would the preference would be to not have.
These, Yeah, to eliminate the crime in the world, the negativity, the terrible shit that happens to people. Yeah, okay, well let's talk about this terrible shit that absolutely happened to Fad. Okay. So it starts on July twenty ninth, in nineteen ninety five, and young thirteen year old boy by the name of Thad Phillips. He was asleep on his couch in a new home in Bearboo, Wisconsin. Him and his family had just moved into the neighborhood and they'd only been there
at the new home for a few weeks. It was a new sort of life for the family. They didn't really know any of the neighbors in the block or anything, you know. They were just kind of like the new people, right, Okay, so they're settling in and that's just your normal young kid. He was often outside playing sports, for example, with his friends, enjoying the sunshine. He loved playing baseball, He loved collecting
baseball cards, football cards, standard nineties kit yep. And on this particular night, he had fallen asleep on the couch. He was up watching TV and he ended up drifting off, so his sleep was eventually interrupted. He felt himself being lifted off the couch and carried away. Now that had recalled that his parents had taken him to bed when he had passed out on the couch multiple times before.
So as he's being carried away, he expected being laid into his bed next moment, But that's not quite what happened. He was still half asleep, but that knew something was kind of wrong. It wasn't his parents that was carrying him off to his bed. A few moments later, he kind of began to come out of his days when he was realizing this wasn't quite right. He was looking up at the stars in the sky above him at night. Jeez, he was being carried away outside his house in someone
else's arms. No, that someone was another boy older than that, but still definitely not an adult. He was about the same age as his older brother, and that assumed that it must be maybe one of his friends or something. And this put the boy at about the age of seventeen years old. The boy set Thad down on the cold, damp ground and was calm and friendly when he asked Thatad to run with them. It was an odd request. It was the middle of the night and this boy
just carried him out of his house. But Thatad was still dazed, quite out of it. He basically just woke up. Right. Yeah, so he assumed, Okay, this guy's being nice. It seems like he's acting normal, like okay, sure, so he just trusted him and just complied, and without hesitation, just began running down the road.
That's so innocent, Hey, yeah it is.
Oh, without a question, he trusted him.
Oh, my gosh. Well, because he's like, at that age, you probably have no reason not to trust someone.
I guess definitely.
I don't know.
Oh So the two made their way off into the night, and eventually they arrived at an old rundown house that was about a mile away from where that had lived. They stepped inside and the entire place was an absolute mess. There was garbage strewn about the place and a sharp stench of mold and rotting food lingered in the air. The strange boy then turned to that and officially made his introduction. He said that his name was Joe, and he said he's having a party in which some people
will be coming by pretty quick. And he started listing off a few names of people who are going to be coming to said party, and to that surprise, he actually recognized some of the names that he mentioned, some people that he now goes to school with.
Oh wow, Okay, so.
It didn't seem like, okay, it's not so crazy to think that this might happen. It's weird. He still kind of dazed. He's a young kid. I mean, we're still all learning the world at that point, right.
Yeah. Well, and then there's some familiality with recognizing of.
The names exactly, so that kind of grounds and makes them think, okay, so that this isn't so weird because I should know these people. It's they're going to be here too, so they think they must think it's normal, so I should think it's normal. Yeah, which I mean clearly that's not going to be the case.
Oh my gosh.
So anyways, after listing some names, Joe said that while they wait for everyone to show up for the said party, he had some cool model cars upstairs in his room that he wanted to show that and now that specifically stated later on he didn't know why he did, but he, without hesitation, again continued to follow the boys lead. He continued to trust him. He followed him up the stairs the dirty, run down house in the middle of the night.
He followed him into a room. And this is where things would take their very dark turn.
Oh shit, what happened?
Well, what do you think happens?
So this is the kid's house, like where he lives, like his home.
I never did find clarification exactly on that. I'm assuming it's not.
Okay or like the innocent thirteen year old bad thinks that it is.
Yes, I never did find clarification on the actual address of this quote. Joe. I'm assuming this is not his place, because later on he does have a mom and all that sort of stuff, So I'm assuming it's not okay, But I don't know whose house this really is.
I don't really even know what to think yet. This is very fucked up because I'm literally my heart is hurting because this thirteen year old boy is so pure and innocent and just following everything, which this is just seems there's just so many red flags that I.
Am but it's rat it's red flags for us as adults. Yes, for a thirteen year old kid who's just trusting. It's a little different.
But then still like at some point, like at that age, like you're still taught that like strangers are bad, but this this guy is still like very young and almost kind of like only a few years older than him. Right, Yeah, oh gosh, I mean shit, it's about to go down. Like, I mean, what's in the sricen room?
Well, nothing particularly in this room, Like it's it's just a room. There's a bed in the room. It's a bedroom, right, It's a dirty house. There's garbage and it stinks. That sort of stuff. So there's nothing overtly dangerous in the room, per se. Okay, However, when they enter the room, Joe's demeanor instantly flipped like a light switch.
Yikes.
He threw Fat down on the bed inside the room, and he quickly sat next to him grabbed for one of his legs. Thad, now being thrown to a bed, was scared right well. Yeah, so he began to try
and fight back. But before he even had a chance to defend himself, this older boy, Joe, who might I say, is like twice his size, managed to get a hold of his right foot, and with his foot in both of his hands, he began to torque and twist sidewise until all of a sudden, a loud snap was heard and Thad felt the bone in his ankle give away under the pressure.
Holy shit, you're kidding. Nope, seriously, Yes, just like went from like just a super nice guy to an instant he's just like breaking his foot, yes, ankle or whatever? Yes, oh my gosh.
Okay, So after that, Joe took a step back, placed his hands over his face and began kind of muttering to himself, and Thad was in shock, not yet quite feeling the full force of the the pain in his now broken ankle, but he clearly knew the danger that he was in now, so he knew he had.
To run well, and how do you even get out? Like that's an injury, Like, how do you even escape now?
Exactly? I mean, he got up and he tried his best he could to get out of the room, down the stairs, through the kitchen towards the front door, but like you said, he can't really his best pretty much now is a quick hobble, which means it's really easy for Joe to catch up to him. Awesome, which is exactly what happened. So by the time he reached the kitchen almost at the front door, Joe came up behind him and grabbed him and tackled him to the floor.
As I mentioned, this boy was like easily twice his size, so he overpowered him without a problem.
Well, I think broken ankle or not, he'd still be able to probably catch him, like exactly, fuck is this guy?
Well, we'll get there. So he took him down and then he dragged him from the kitchen into the living room and then he threw him on the couch. Joe then took Thad's right leg and lifted it up towards Dad's head, extended it far beyond its normal range of motion, and he pressed down with his full body weight on the leg and then gave it a twist and hurt another snap.
Oh my gosh, I am, I cannot like, we're how far in? I'm not going to be mute too with this episode. This is horrifine.
It's not a fun one. It's graphic.
I'm this is probably one you needed to have filmed because I am. I can't do this. I can't even listen. I'm like, I just want to take my headphones.
You've been squirming in your seat a lot. Yeah, Well, to be fair, I was doing the very same thing during researching of this episode. It's not fun, not fun at all. And I can't imagine what Thad would be going through. He's thirteen years old.
Well, I just can't even let fear and the agonizing pain. Yes, I need something. I need something to like fiddle with here, Like I gotta hold onto something.
Yeah, that coaster there you go, you to break it here and a half. Eventually it's just cork, go for it. Well, like I said that being thirteen though, and all this unfathomable pain. Let's just say it like that, because apparently breaking like femurs and stuff is one of the most excruciating things a human can feel. Apparently, so he blacked out as a result of this, and the injury that he did just sustain in this moment was a broken femur and a broken hip on the right side of
his body. And that's along with the broken ankle that he already incurred on the right side of his body.
Wow, that was that's some intense injuries right there. Oh yeah, I don't even know how well that would heal. Hey your hip, well.
A hip is it can be very dangerous, especially it gets like more into the pelvis because you have your artery running through there.
Yeah, if you.
Break that pelvis, that is a get to the hospital now, because internal bleeding, Like you can bleed out and you're gonna die very quickly. All it takes is for a bone shard to puncture that artery and you're done.
Dang.
So when he did eventually wake up after blacking out, there was of course this excruciating pain radiating down the right side of his body into his leg hip as a result of the injuries, and Joe was just sitting there next to him, but he was now back to how he was when they first met. He was calm, he talked normal and being relatively kind instead of this bizarre, crazed, wanting to break bones type monster. He actually even began
to explain to that you know what's going on. He said that he had a fascination with bones and the sound they made when they broke.
Seriously, yes, the seventeen.
Year old boy is fascinated by the sound of breaking bones.
Wow, that's really disturbing.
Yes, I mean it is. Let's paint this picture though here outside of the breaking bones thing too, because he's now friendly with them, and that actually began I became getting friendly with Joe in this situation too, after he woke up. It's a very odd situation to look back on because Joe is now treating him as if he's basically a friend, even though he already had kidnapped him and really attacked him and they're strangers this whole thing, so like that is also treating him the same way.
He's being nice and friendly even though he's on his couch, kidnapped by him and with broken legs able leg Sorry, so is he kind.
Of just playing nice?
So I must saying that's exactly what that's doing. He's got ulterior motives. Yeah, he's trying to a stall Joe. I was trying to figure out a way to escape. He's trying to be befriend him in hopes that well, maybe he's just gonna let me go. And then also he's see trying to delay the possibility of an eventual additional attack.
Yep, more broken bones. Yes, well, could you imagine being held captive and this person is just like going on about how he likes the sound of breaking bones.
Oh, and he's already broken.
Your bony Yeah, like quite a few of your bones.
And he's already proven to easily been able to overpower you, and you have no way of preventing it from happening again other than being nice. That is your current only fucking weapon in this situation.
Oh my gosh, this is too much.
It's too much right now. I just want to point out being nice is one thing, especially like to someone who's like hurting you, but you are in excruciating pain having to be nice.
That's the one time I feel like where you can cut things kind of slip right where you like, if you are a kind person and you're in pain, like it's like fuck off because you're just in so much excruciating pain, you're not thinking.
Oh yeah, you're overwhelmed. Yeah, so shit can go south pretty quick in that sort of situation. But thatd has to keep it together because he doesn't want to trigger anything else to happen again. So through the rest of this night, Joe did go to sleep, and he told that as well to go ahead and get some sleep too, But Thad couldn't get a wink asleep. He was frozen in a fear and be in pain, wondering what was
coming next and if he was going to survive. The next morning, when Joe woke up, Thad continued the idea of being friends with his abductor, and it was no big deal sort of thing. So Thad was like, oh, you know, hey, what'd be able to call for my parents to come and pick me up? Almost like it was like, you know, just a sleepover. It just ended like, oh,
it's no big deal. This is just kind of like a normal big thing, and parents picked me up and it's just a normal freaking day, right, And he was actually extremely surprised when Joe said yeah and he handed him a telephone.
Really really because at this point, like that can probably not even move really no, okay.
So broken hip, femur and ankle, yeah, on his right hand side.
Yeah.
So, now having a telephone in his hand and the permission to call his parents from Joe, adrenaline was pumping through his system as he's trying not to like make himself look like he's panicking.
Oh my gosh, like this this could be my moment exactly.
He's trying to keep it calm. So he took the phone, acting as casual as possible, dialed his parent's number, and held the receiver up to his ear. But when he did, the only thing you could hear was Joe's laughter on the other end.
Of the room.
Oh shit, so he was just fucking with him.
The phone's cord was cut.
Wow.
Oh it was a dead phone.
That is heartbreaking, isn't it.
That is so fucking cold.
Yeah, this guy, Okay, I'm like, i mean, I'm feeling like we're gonna be hearing about him. But he has to have some.
Fiddle with the coaster. Fiddle with it. You're gonna need it.
I think he has to have some like bipolar or some sort of mental health issues going on here big time.
Uh, we'll talk about that a little bit later. I didn't. Yeah, we'll talk about it.
Okay, we were I'm yeah, like I said, we're gonna get there.
I'm sure for sure. So he's now sitting there just again waiting for what's gonna happen next. Oh my gosh, they were sitting there, They're watching TV together, and a couple hours of waiting goes by, and then that caught a glimpse of something terrifying in Joe's eyes. When Joe looked at him, it was the same terrifying and cynical look that he saw the night before, in the moment
when everything changed when Joe attacked him. Joe, in this moment, suddenly stood up, lifted that off the couch, carried him upstairs back to the bedroom where they were the night before, put him on the bed, and began the attack all over again, this time targeting his left ankle.
Oh my god, Okay.
He immediately grabbed Thad's foot both hands and began to twist it in an unnatural way until the pressure was too much and the bone once again snapped. Pain rushed through Thad's body, but this time enough for him to sit up and strike Joe with a punch, but his attack was useless. Joe then took a pillow and pinned him down with the pillow over his face and told him that if he tried to fight back again the next time, he would be breaking his neck or his back instead of his legs.
Holy shit.
So he had two options, one basically be paralyzed or dead by trying to fight back, or continue to lay back and accept the brutal torture. And at one point during this part that had looked down at his left foot as it was being twisted so extreme that the skin on his ankle was being wrapped like a rubber band and his foot was facing backwards.
Oh god, you're just torturing us.
Now, this is horrid, this is in Oh, I don't even Later on in court, he was asked as he took the stand, what did your foot look like?
And he said, quote, it was facing backwards.
Wow, holy shit. Okay, it's like hard to even want to say. This is just so, this is so unfathomable to me that this is happening.
It's wild, absolutely wild. And I can't stress enough that this is a thirteen year old boy going through this.
Well and the fact that that was even happening. He got like a punch in. It's kind of impressive.
It is, it really is.
Yeah, I kind of felt ill before this podcast, so this is great.
Just making it worse.
It is great for me.
Well, it took a while for this bit of attack to be over, and Joe began to confess to Fad that this wasn't just the sound of breaking bones that was making him do this. He also enjoyed and had a fascination with bones that went a little bit further. He enjoyed trying to fix and reset bones. Okay, so he opened up a dresser drawer that was jammed full to the brim with brand new sets of white socks
and elastic bands. Then to top it all off, he also had an old hospital leg brace and he used all the materials layering socks after socks is padding and elastic bands to hold them in place, and then use the brace to hold the legs still. And while doing this, Joe even talked about how he tried to break his own legs in the past, but he just couldn't quite get the angles right to get the job done.
Huh.
Okay, So this whole medical procedure, if you want to call it, that he was trying to perform, it was crude, It was improvised. It was a basic attempt of a medical splint that was just not even coming close to working one iota. He had little knowledge at all about what he was doing. All he knew that he wanted to write the bones basically, and then let them get back at a place so hopefully he could come back and break them all over again.
Where the actual shit is he like getting this fascination and learning this stuff.
From That's a very good question.
That is unbelievable. Like, I'm very speechless here, so I apologize that I am just processing, and yeah, it's not going well in my head right now.
Well, continue to try and process, because it's one of those cases that I don't think we can process to the full extent. So after and during torture several times that day and having more of his bones and his legs broke, Wow, Thad heard Joe talking to someone else in the house. Down in the kitchen. He listened as close as he could, but he could hear no other voice of no other person. So to Thad, this could only mean one thing. It's talking to himself, not talking
to himself. Because he was definitely talking to another person. He thought there must be a working phone somewhere in the house.
Okay, and he's.
Pretty sure he was in the kitchen when he was having this conversation. So Thad knew in his condition that this was his only chance to get out of the house. Was this phone?
How the fuck is he going to get there? Though?
Well, in the evening, Joe told Fad that he was going to be leaving the house, but not before warning, threatening, and of course further hurting Fad to prevent any attempts of escape. This, however, didn't stop him. He knew that he needed to get down to that phone. He needed to escape, He needed to do what he could. So once he was certain that Joe was out of the house and that he was alone, he rolled his broken body out of the bed and began to slowly crawl
his way through the house. Oh my gosh, he made his way to the top of the stairs, which was his biggest obstacle.
On the way, which, even making it that far as a feet.
Oh definitely his first attempt, mind you. He decided he was going to try and slide down the stairs like feet first, but his legs were in way too much pain that it was an impossible feet, completely impossible feet, and Thad knew that standing was of course out of the question, and slowly going down the stairs as he's looking at it now, no matter the direction, it wasn't going to happen either. So this left him with only
one option. He gathered up all his strength and all the adrenaline that he could and he threw himself down the stairs. Wow. Seriously, if he couldn't slowly climb it, he was going to fall it.
Holy man, this guy is incredible at thirty incredible.
It's wild. And I'm going to say this now because of course, you guys know what's going to happen. He is one hundred percent our badass of the day.
Yeah, like he the will in him to live is that's incredible.
Oh, we've only scratched the surface.
Okay, good to know.
So in the fall, he of course blacked out from the pain, but he would wake up a while later in a broken heap at the bottom of the stairs. But he knew what he had to do. He had to make his way to the kitchen. He had to get to the phone, so he slowly crawled, making it about a foot at a time and passing out in between each interval. He would make it about a foot and pass out, wake up, make it about a foot and pass out, all from the extreme pain that he was in.
And I imagine he doesn't even know how long this is taking either. He has also like freaking out of when Joe's going to.
Be getting home exactly. He doesn't know if he passed out for a minute or an hour exactly. So he's getting closer and closer to the case, nearly there, right where the phone must be. When he heard the front door.
Fucking kidding, seriously, I'm pissed now.
Joe came in with his girlfriend. His girlfriend, his girlfriend. He couldn't see the two, but he could hear them and she laughed. After a moment, and when the door closed, Joe came walking through the kitchen into the living room where he was laying just outside the kitchen. And Joe was furious now that at this point he uh he was passing out so much that he wouldn't even be awake for any sort of punishment that will be dealt
to him. So in the morning is when Joe would give him his punishment and torture.
He wanted him awake.
He wanted him awake. So Joe continued. He was twisting his legs, grinding the bones against once one another as they moved. He would even jump up and land on his legs, his broken legs with his knees.
This guy is a literal monster.
Is Fad did everything he could to get through the pain and delay the assault as best he could. At one point, he said, I think I heard someone coming in the driveway, and in that moment, Joe quickly got up and looked at the window as if he was actually almost expecting someone. Okay, now it didn't buy much time, but it was at least a moment in between the brutal torture, and every moment at this point counted bad. In that moment, assume that Joe must actually be expecting someone.
He must be expecting his girlfriend to come by again. So throughout this experience, a few more times he would say that he thinks he hears someone outside or someone's in the driveway, and each time it brought him a brief break, as Joe would go look out the window.
But is that not I feel like that's also gonna be making Joe mad?
Potentially it could be. Now, this was all absolutely horrific, and it brought Thad to ask a question. So, during this horrific experience, while he's being beaten and in extreme pain, he asked, have you done this to anyone else before? Because, I mean, this is so extreme? Is he really going this far on a first assault?
Yeah? That's actually I feel like that's an impressive question. That is that you're in that much excruciating pain and being tortured, and you're curious if anyone else has gone through this at thirteen?
Yeah, I'm the age. I cannot get over the fact that this kid is thirteen. Like he is a literal fucking badass.
Yeah, he's a child. Wow, Like that's incredible.
Yeah. So to answer his question, and given Thad's current state, Joe must have assumed that there was going to be no escape and that he would probably be killing him soon, So he had no problem confessing that yes, there were other people and he had actually given a couple names, and then continued his punishment.
That he killed probably yes, seriously.
Yes, other people that endured this and other people that he killed. And then he continued his punishment, and he continued hurting Fad to whatever extent he deemed necessary.
This guy is literally a nasty motherfucker.
Yes.
Wow.
So eventually Joe's girlfriend did show up. She did pull up in the driveway, which meant the torture was over for now briefly.
Yeah.
So to prevent Fad from trying to escape again, Joe decided he was going to put him in the closet and shut the door and lock it. So he left the house with Fad locked in the closet. And the one thing he didn't account for because he's assuming he's going to be locked in there, he's not getting out, and he's going to be done. He's not gonna be able to do anything, not be able to get anywhere. He's helpless, right, But he didn't account for Thad's determination.
That's the key here. Once that realized that he wasn't the only victim of this brutal, bone breaking torture, he knew that if he died, if he was going to continue to be able to do this, he wasn't going to be the last one. So Thad set his focus on escaping to ensure that this didn't happen to anyone else.
Oh my gosh, that makes me want to just cry.
Heye, doesn't it Like that is just like.
The most amazing person in the whole world. He's an angel.
Yeah, He's like, I don't want anyone else to go through this. I'm gonna make sure I escape and bring this guy to justice so he can't do it to anyone else. And he's thinking of this while he's locked up, while he's brutally beaten with massively broken legs, and he's in show in shock, and he's fucking.
Thirty and still able to think clearly to prevent this from happening to.
Someone else exactly right.
Wow, Like I keep saying wow, but this is unbook. This story is unbelievable.
It's wild, absolutely wild. So he's locked in this closet and he knows he needs to escape, but he doesn't know how. So he begins looking around in the closet for something to help. And between all the garbage, the dirty clothes, the rotting food that's.
In there, just must reak in there.
It's going to be gross. But he's rifling around and he finds an electric guitar, and this guitar was going to be the perfect thing to break through the thin walls of the manufactured wooden door.
Wow.
So he takes his guitar and begins smashing the door with it. He breaks through the door, reaches through and unlocks the door from the other side and opens it and he's now out of the closet.
So has Joe not really been injuring his arms? It's more so as like legs.
He's only been after his legs.
His hips, like leg Yeah.
I'm sure that he's like hitting them and beating them a bit, but he's he's only focused on breaking the legs and stuff right now.
Okay, So he hasn't been okay, yeah, Oh, which I'm like, I was just gonna be like, well, I guess it's slight blessing, but this is all nothing in.
Here is well there's silver linings, right, yeah, there's there's always a silver lining somewhere, and there is going to be some silver linings here shortly.
Okay.
So once he smashed through the door and it was open, he proceeded with the scate same escape plan as yesterday, only this time he knew that this was going to be his last attempt. If he was discovered this time, Joe was going to kill him.
Huh.
And that was without a doubt in his mind.
Yeah.
So he pulled his broken body along the floor again to the top of the stairs, and this time he didn't even hesitate. He just immediately threw his body down the stairs to the bottom.
Oh my gosh.
And just like last time, he blacked out. And then he would crawl a foot or two and blackout again, crawl a foot or two and blackout again. And just like you said, he has no idea the time this is taking. In any moment that door can open again.
Yeah, but he knows you just got to keep going like this this hole man, I'm like almost like pumped for him in the sense that like just having that much like will and desire and determination like this boy's gonna do if. I mean, you said it's a survivor's story, but.
Good things, Well, his first good thing is he made it.
He made it.
He made it to the kitchen. Okay, So as he got into the kitchen, there on the wall he looked up was a phone fixed to the wall up high. Oh, of course, but I did say there's some silver lining things. Lucky enough for him, this phone had a long coiled cord that was hanging down perfect, so he managed to make his way to the phone, reach up, grab the cord, and yank it off until it fell down. And then that's when he realized he had a second lucky silver
lining moment. All the numbers to dial were on the receiver that were now in his hands, that have mounted high up on the wall with the phone.
Because I was like, where are the numbers? I was waiting, where are the numbers? Please don't be on the wall.
They were right in his hand, amazing, So he quickly took the phone, dialed nine to one one was able to give a very brief description of where he was located and the house and everything right, and it only took a few minutes before police were later storming the house. Yes, however, I want to make a note here. The police initially thought this was a prank call. No way, they didn't hesitate to show up.
Okay they did, you're kidding.
But they initially thought this was a prank call. And there is audio recording of this nine one one call where the police are like, yeah, we're on our way to this house. This better not be a fucking prank call. Because that was so calm and collected on the phone. They thought, there's no way this kid's like kidnapped.
At a house and in like dying basically from the pain. Yes, seriously, he has calm on there.
He sounded like a normal kid, just like I'm talking to you right now, just a kid's voice.
If this guy, he's just like a miracle, he's a miracle.
While he's on the phone, you can hear police storming in the house and like that, are you there? And he's like yeah, I'm over here, Like is anyone else in the house. No, I'm the only one. He's just talking to him normal. It's in fucking sane.
How on earth? It just has to be a shock thing. He has so much adrenaline going through his body.
I guess, right, maybe, and I mean it must be. I can't think it's still any other way.
You still think you're breathing and stuff would be labored because you're just like your body is going through hell on Earth.
Yeap, So like you said, hell on Earth. He is clearly in absolute rough shape. When they arrived and they did rush him to the hospital. Now, his legs were swollen, broken in multiple places, bruised with significant discoloring all throughout, and on the way to the hospital, the ambulance attendants told him they estimated that without any medical attention, he would have died in about two hours due to internal
bleeding in his legs. If he didn't make it to that phone, he had only two more hours to live.
Oh my goodness. Really, so even like if Joe didn't finish him.
Or not, basically it was either he died in that closet or he made it to the phone.
Huh wow, that is that's just incredible that this story is unbelievable.
It's wild. Yeah, so clearly this is going to be a long road for recovery though.
Fourth oh yeah, I can't even imagine.
But even still, he only had one thing on his mind. He wanted Joe to be stopped and to come to justice. So only hours later that same night, while in the hospital, Dad was trying to remember the names of the victims that Joe had previously mentioned to him. Now he could only ever remember one name.
Oh dang, that's still that's good.
Yes, he could only remember Chris, Chris s He couldn't remember the last name. So that same night, while they're trying to figure out this name, his dad is sitting there beside him and at the hospital bed, flipping through the phone book, reading s names to him to try and jog his memory, trigger it and see if they could figure out names. Because this is another local individual, clearly a victim of this kid. Local phone book, the
name has to be in here. So he's reading through the s names and he gets to Steiner and that was it, Chris Steiner. That was the name, he said, that's the kid. That's the name. He said. That one Chris Steiner. A year before, on July fourth, nineteen ninety four, went missing, went missing. He was fourteen.
Oh my gosh.
So Chris had a new job at McDonald's and needed to be up early for a shift. So he went to bed and his parents went to wake him up. The next morning at about six fifteen am.
He wasn't work.
He was gone. Now, initially it took them twenty four hours to report his disappearance because they thought fourth of July, fourteen year old kid might have snuck out all this sort of stuff. So it was the next day when they're like, Okay, something's really wrong, so they reported a missing. An investigation has ensued and they did discover after actually investigating, that there was a cut screen on the window of
his bedroom. Really and after talking to the parents, there was one door that was left unlocked that is always.
Locked, so he like snuck through the cut screen and then went out the door.
Correct. They also did find muddy footprints in some areas of the house and footprints in the yard that were too big to be Chris's.
So this guy as a literal seventeen year old or sixteen year old or whatever like serial killer.
Hey, basically.
That's mind blowing. Oh my goodness. And to think that if that did not get away, how many more people that he would have done this to?
Yeah, exactly, it wouldn't have stopped.
It would have gotten worse.
It would have one So it would be five days later after he disappeared that Chris's body would be found. His body was caught snagged on a tree in a river bank along the Wisconsin River. His body was found bloated and badly decomposed. An autopsy was done and his cause of death was said to be drowning, but there was no actual determined determination on how he ended up in the river or anything, so it was considered unknown undetermined. But cause of death was drowned.
Well, I mean, I imagine if he had some broken bones that he wouldn't have been swim right, if Joe did throw him in the water when he was like still alive.
We're going to get to that. But as for as far as the autopsy went, no broken bones were found. Okay, okay, but we're going to get to that. So unfortunately, there was no other evidence that could really be found, and his case was left cold and he was buried and laid to rest. Now it was back to bad story. It was quickly determined that an individual who was a suspect in Chris's disappearance was a local teenage bully by the name of Joe Clark. He was seventeen, and he
was found and quickly arrested. Police went and got permission to re examine Chris's body, so they re exhumed his remains, and their astonishment, the autopsy completely missed several broken bones in his legs. How it's assumed that due to the bloat in his body, breaks weren't visible bull or anything. Okay, so it gave no reason for X rays in the area, especially considering drowning. They're looking at like asphyxiation, lungs and stuff, right, So.
That okay, that's fair, that makes sense.
So once they compared Chris's X rays to Thad's X rays, the breaks were almost in identical fashions, really, same way of force, same spot, the brakes were in you name it, which confirmed Joe and Chris's assailant.
Just like this teenager hases like m O already like that. This is just so disturbing. I'm so disturbed by this case.
Get ready for this one.
It gets freaking worse.
Well, it doesn't necessarily get worse, but there's a final smoking gun, if you will. For Joe. They would end up, of course, getting search warrants and everything, and they would search his room and they found a notebook, and within this notebook there were three handwritten lists. These three lists included the names of local boys and all the headings on the lists were A get to know b can wait and see leg thing?
Oh seriously, yes, leg thing, leg thing That's fucked, isn't it. Yeah, So did they find out the other freaking names of the other ones.
Then unfortunately anyone that was confessed by Joe. No, they're not too sure. And there is no other evidence on any other actual victims. Okay, nothing that anyone is aware of.
Huh.
So it would take nearly a year before the trial occurred, and Thad stood trial without fear of Joe. He said he could not wait to get up there, and he did not He was not afraid of him.
He said, Oh my gosh, he's incredible.
Joe pleaded insanity at the trial and claimed that he had absolutely no recollection of the events whatsoever. He said he did remember just having every intent to hang out with that and that's it, but he just blacks out and doesn't remember anything else. But he did also say that it was Thad who broke his bones himself.
Okay, I mean, I totally like I I am one hundred percent. I believe like mental health is a thing, like people can have mental health issues, yes, but I do not believe him. I think that kid is full of shit.
Well, the notebook with the three lists would throw that whole defense tactic out the window, because it showed that he knew what he was doing and premeditation, right. Yeah, so in regarding to Thad and the kidnapping and attempted murder, Joe would receive one hundred years.
In jail, and that's where he is today. But that's not the end, of course, not, of course not, because I just have to say one more thing here. He literally blacks out when the ship's going down, but that he knows that Thad broke his own bones. I know that just isn't none of that makes any sense. I know I'm pissed right now. Yeah, what the heck? He better still be in jail, Ben, Like, come, are you
threatening me? Because I'm not gonna be happy here and it's like bedtime and I'm gonna have to try to get a nice sleep because I'm wanted the gym in the morning, and like, I better not be getting even more pissed here.
I'm sorry, I haven't even got to like say anything yet, and you're just like literally threatening me.
Yeah. Everyone listening is like, I Ope, it's okay.
Oh shit, if I wake up with a broken leg in the morning, you know what happened. Wow, Well, I was referring more to There was also a trial for Chris Steiner, who was the one who was found drowned and everything. I was like, yeah, you were drawing it there for a minute.
Okay. Yeah.
So of course there was the trial for Thad and Joe received one hundred years sentence for that. Okay, but now we're on the trial for Chris Steiner, so I cannot clarify this part of it. I could not get a name, so I couldn't research it. Any article I looked, I could not find it. So if someone else has any information on it, please reach out. I'd love to actually be able to find some more information. They had asked Thad to stand trial for this Chris Steiner case
as well. Okay, days before and again just clarifying, I can't confirm any of this if it is true, so just clarifying that this is hearsay at this point. Days before this trial, one of Joe's apparent friends showed up to Thad's place with a hunting rifle and shot him in the back twice.
Shot Sad in the back, yes, actual friends.
Apparently, and so he still survived this shooting, apparently and was still able to go on trial. I could not find the name of the person who apparently shot Thad, so I could not find any information on if this is true, and I couldn't find any articles on it whatsoever. But I did watch one YouTube video where they talked about it. So I'm curious if that's true or not.
Yeah, because that seems wild how it does go through anything.
Out I know, so that portion is hearsay. Okay. However, there was for sure a trial held for Chris Steiner, and Joe pleaded innocent to the murder charges. He unfortunately for him, did not have an alibi, and there was an absolutely overwhelming amount of evidence, of course, found through Thad's trial, and the jury would find him guilty of Chris Steiner's murder good and this case would finally be closed and there was finally closure for his family, and
Joe would be given a life sentence. So he is now one hundred years plus life in prison.
So he's in jail right now.
You bet ya?
Okay. I was very hesitant to ask that because if he was not, I would have age.
Okay, I can tell now Joe is going to be behind bars for the rest of his life. Thatad walks around alive today, walks around just fine, though he will forever be reminded of the horrors he went through with each step he does take, because he is left with a bit of a limp that follows him everywhere. But I do want to say that limp is definitely not a sign of weakness. That limp is a sign of strength and a testament to who he is and his resilience one hundred and ten percent.
Well he Yeah, it's unbelievable what he went through and that he was still I don't know, his will to live is unbelievable.
It is incredible.
There are so many people that I think, like in that situation, like you wouldn't and rightfully so too, Like you would just I think, give up and be like, oh.
Yeah, no, I'm just done in the face of something like that. It's so easy to give up because that's that's what are you left with. You have nothing, it's taken away.
And the pain and stuff like yeah, so I think and you would probably just think that you're done, like your how on earth would I get out of that?
Yees? And I do think that if that didn't have that thing to look for, that he was trying to save someone else because he had concrete knowledge that this is going to happen. To someone else because it happened to more than just me. If he didn't have that, I don't know if he would have survived, Yeah, because I think that's what got him to push through.
He was thinking about something much bigger.
Yeah, he was thinking about I need to stop this guy from hurting someone else. Yeah, and he wasn't thinking about his own survival. And I think that's what made him survive.
And what makes him like a complete incredible person.
Oh, pretty much everything about that story makes him a complete incredible person. But yeah, that definitely the top of the list. Wow. Yeah, And I mean I've broken very little bones in my life. I've only ever broken like I think, Well, they say you break like toes and stuff lots and you don't even know it. And I'm pretty sure I've broken a toe or two once or twice, and then it broke my hand once. All it broke my one hand twice in the same spot. But that's it,
so pretty minor stuff for me. I can't imagine have someone literally torquing your leg to the point of it just snapped.
Yeah, that sound I think that you would hear, right.
Oh, oh, the sound would probably well not like, of course, the pain. But I think the sound is what's going to live with you because I know the remember my stag party when we two weeks before you got married and sent you that picture.
People probably don't know this, well.
Funny story. Two weeks before you got married. Out of my stag party, I was fed a lot of drinks and I ended up tripping around the bonfire and I hit my head on a stump that was like a seat by the bonfire and I hit my like just side of my face, right beside my eye. I can still hear the sound to this day of my head hitting that one.
Well, you still have a scar, don't you?
A little bit you have? You gotta look hard for it. It is there.
It's actually quite visible right now if you.
Look forward, it's there. Yeah, yeah, but you don't notice it otherwise.
So as a wedding photographer, a like, don't have your stag that close to your wedding and make sure your wedding photographer will like edit that out if something bad happens, because ours did not know.
I had a little bit of a black eye and a bit of a scab on the side of my face.
But yeah, I mean, people would just expect that from you.
Ben, thank you. I think, Wow, I'm just kidding, but yeah, it's it's that sound. Pain fades over time, but there's going to be certain things that cling to you, and I have a feeling that sound is going to be something that would probably cling with them. Oh yeah, among other things of course, Yeah.
I mean the trauma that he must have, so I mean hopefully, but just from the story of him and like how incredibly he is, I feel like if anyone can kind of go on to maybe live somewhat of like a normal or happy life, it's him.
Which I mean, he does have a family now, he is, he does have kids and everything like that, so that's awesome. So he's definitely living a good life now there.
His kids have like one badass of a dad that's no.
Shit like Batman ain't got shit on Fad No kidding, Yeah, Fad the badass dad. Hm hm.
I can't believe that's good. Actually, I can't believe I haven't heard this story. I mean, this would be probably one of those stories though that I would I would probably not dig deep because like it's very disturbing.
Well, this is one that a friend of mine has been requesting for a while Dana, So shout out to Dana. She was talking to this just the other day. Actually it was a few weeks ago. She said, yeah, you got to do this, one got to do it. I'm like, okay, I'll do it here, coming quick.
So yeah, well, I mean that would have been pretty brutal to research.
So well done, thank you. And now I want to go listen to it on Morbid because apparently they did it like three days ago too. Oh gosh, I know, So I want to go hear their their take on it because I didn't want to listen to it as I'm like in the middle of researching this. I want to get like affected by how they did it. But I'm curious their take too and what their opinion is.
Yeah, because I mean everyone has their different takes on it too, and like their personalities and what they choose to because like you could probably many of our podcasts could be numerous episodes, right oh yeah, only select certain bits and like fit them in the show and stuff.
So well, I mean, like honestly, this case could probably be turned into like a ten part Netflix documentary series even, yeah, like easily because you can we can talk to people involved and we can get statements, and there are documentaries on this one out there where you can pull statements, you can get the nine on one audio call, and you can you can do massive deep dives. So so yeah,
it's curious to really see what other people know. And like I said, I'm really curious to see if anyone knows if thatad was shot, if that is a true thing.
Yeah, I'm kind of hoping that really didn't happen, because that boy went through it off.
Yeah, it seemed like it was a bit of a far fetched portion of the story. But it also I was like, well, why is someone going to just make this up like that? There has got to be something to it. So I'm curious if anyone can find anything on that.
Yeah.
I certainly wasn't able to.
I mean, my main reaction to that was Joa's friends, because seriously, who the fuck would be his friend?
He's he apparently had a girlfriend.
Yeah that is mind blowing. But I also feel like he had like dual personalities in a sense.
Well, there there was something. I didn't do a whole lot of research on it because I already had a lot of information and I think this podcast has already
had about an hour right now. But there was something about potential lead poisoning leading to a lot of child aggression in Wisconsin in these years, because apparently there was like a lead type gold rush in the eighteen hundreds and there's a lot of lead in the area as a result of it, and it has led to a potential apparently it affects kids and violence or something, and I am actually kind of interested to do a little bit of post research on that and see if it
is a factor. And then there was also claims in court that Joe's mother drugged him as a kid and she was taking drugs during his pregnancy, and there's some other different things at play there potentially, but it seemed like a lot of them were just defense claims well.
And honestly though, to get to that point that he had to probably have some sort of not the best of pasts really, because I feel like to literally get these that young, like you're still pretty young, yeah, and to be that much of a fucking monster, that like something had to happen that wasn't all good to you.
Yeah, I don't know.
I mean, just like we shouldn't be shown like I don't want to show them any sympathy, but like something had to have happened.
I feel like I think so, and there there isn't a whole lot of information. Most of the things out there regarding what it could be is hearsay is hey, maybe this is it, and someone just kind of like talking about it. There's no real real research or real information regarding what it could potentially be.
So it's yeah, yeah, there was a recent Grey's Anatomy episode where somebody had a bullet stuck in them and they were getting lead poisoning and it completely changed them. So that could be a thing.
I don't know if that's how that works.
I don't know. Lots of times Grey's Anatomy actually takes life situations, though, but the bullet was in this person, like I don't chest cavity for like ten years.
Or oh that would mean and then it's.
After like it started leaking or whatever. I don't even know.
Yeah, no, over course of years, you haven't feel stuck in them. I was thinking like, oh, I just got shot ten minutes ago, and now I have like poisoning.
Yeah, I was like described it badly.
Yeah, that's why I said, I don't think that's how that works. It's not like the bullet's melting in them or something. But no, over years, Yeah, the lead might slowly seep in.
The never ending show. Hey, Gray's Anatomy, But I've watched every episode.
Of what season are they on now?
I don't even know nineteen or something they're going into She's la hueez. I don't know. It's crazy, but I'll keep I'm gonna keep watching.
Yeah, keep watching it. Do your thing mm hm, and you guys can keep listening. Maybe that'd be cool. That'd be awesome. If you want to go give us a cool review, that'd be awesome. You can go give us a five star or give us a one star if you want to go ahead and be honest. We prefer five five stars all the way. You can give us a little like blurb and what you think. You can go ahead and check out our Instagram or Facebook or YouTube or Patreon, and all the stuff is listed down below.
And we just appreciate you being here too. That is fantastic. You don't have to do anything else other than that, even so, thank you so much for just that.
Thanks for listening to us ramble on about fucking monsters for an hour.
Yeah, yeah, I appreciate you a lot. We definitely do, but we don't appreciate the fucking monsters in this world.
No, we don't know.
So anyways, we'll talk to you next time. Thanks for listening, and until then, stay wicked.