It takes a shocking event to inspire a film, but that's exactly what happened in the case of the Backpacker murders. This high profile case struck fear into the hearts of all of Australia when several hitchhikers mysteriously disappeared, and mind you, hitchhiking was still widely considered safe at this time. The terror surrounding the case eventually inspired the film Wolf Creek, but the real life horror came from the name behind
it all. This is the story of Ivan Milat and the Backpacker Murders.
My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast.
The following podcast and material for a mature audience.
Listen.
I have had this case on my list for a long time, have you I have. I've done research over and over and over again for it, and then i found myself being like, I'm too far down a rabbit hole, and I've got like a day to get a podcast together, So then I swap out and do a different case and put this one on the back burner, sort of say, and here we are finally awesome. I'd probably put this one on the back burner. I bet you about a dozen times.
Really, Okay, yes, so this is gonna be good.
Then this is quite the ride. Hm, it's quite the ride. Like I said, it actually inspired the movie, the horror movie Wolf Creek.
Okay, I don't think I've seen that movie. I don't think so.
Well, it is honor.
We will have to watch it tonight.
It is on our list today for Patreon, so you are going to be watching it if you don't know. We are doing a countdown of thirty one Halloween movies, so a movie per day all through October. We've been posting each day a new movie to check out over on Patreon, and the movie Wolf Creek is today's.
Movie on Patreon. Yeah, yeah, right on which.
Speaking of Patreon, we should actually thank our patrons who signed up this week.
Yeah, we have a couple we did.
We have Macy Smith and McKenna Anderson. Thank you so much for doing us from Patreon.
That's awesome.
We have something else to talk about. What do we do? Yesterday?
Oh? I was like, we do? What the heck elks do you have to talk about? We did our annual Halloween photo shoot. We did Yeah, and it went quite well.
It did. We actually involved the dogs and they relatively behave themselves.
Well, Honey did far better than Ripley.
Yeah, Ripley was. Ripley doesn't like to listen. She doesn't like to do what she's told. She doesn't like to if you have a treat in your hand or something, she is the goodest girl. But if you just tell her to do something, she's like.
No, she's just busy, and she just likes to explore everything. And if you get in the way of that, like, fuck off.
Basically pretty much that is the definition of huskies right there. If you're in the way of them, fuck off. But yeah, I went good. So we are gonna be posting the photos pretty soon over on Instagram, Facebook and our socials, so you can go check those out because we do an annual one every year. Last year, Nicole, you killed me.
As a son, I did. Yeah, that one is for the books. This one's a bit more chill. It's a bit more chill, I would say. This year. Oh, it's definitely really awesome.
Well, in the year before that, we did like face painted skeletons and stuff and got like all.
No, I don't I think, Oh, was that or when did we do the pumpkin I think that was the year before Okay, now I'm not sure anyway, and ghosts.
And ghosts, Yeah, but we we do Halloween shoot every year, so this year, yeah, we went all that last year, so we went a little bit more relaxed this year. Just fun and comfy.
Yeah, it was fun.
It was so that. Yeah, like I said, I digress. Those ann be coming out soon, but I think we should get to this case. What do you think? Yeah, okay, talk for a minute, tho, because I got to get a sip of.
Cock for I was going to ask you. Do you think that we're ever going to run out of ideas for these photo shoots? Oh?
Yes? Probably?
Oh really Okay, I thought for sure you'd be like, no, no, I got like ten my back pocket here.
But I'm already at loss for what to do next year. But we'll figure it out.
You haven't even thought about it, probably, touche? I have? There? You go?
Or have I? Yes?
I have? Maybe I should I should think of something.
Maybe you should.
Well yeah, but good God knows what you'd be doing.
Maybe I should maybe maybe I should?
Yeah, never mind, we would do like ghosts again, but with like really florally sheets.
I'd be fine with that.
I think that would be so fun.
Okay, let's get on with this. So this is the Wolf Creek Killer because of the movie Wolf Creek aka The Backpack Murders aka the story of Ivan Millett. So on September nineteenth, nineteen ninety two, it was warm and sunny day. Two runners were orienteering in the Bolongo State Forest area in Australia. Now, the peaceful atmosphere of the forest quickly turned to a very grim situation. As they
approached the location ominously known as Executioners Drop. In the stillness of the day, they were suddenly overwhelmed by the foul and very familiar stench of decay. They assumed at first that it came from a dead animal somewhere nearby in the bushes. However, what they stumbled upon was far more terrifying than they could ever have imagined. As they slowed down, the runners spotted a shallow grave and inside there were two bodies, two women, both lying face down
with their hands bound behind their backed. By the discovery, they immediately left the area and notified authorities.
Holy shit, Hey, what a way to start your day.
Yeah, no kidding. When police arrived at the scene, they found the women's bodies partially covered by leaves and brush. The state of their decomposition was so advanced that identifying them by sight alone was absolutely impossible. Nearby officers discovered a makeshift fire pit, along with numerous cigarette butts and several spent twenty two caliber shell casings scattered around the site. Well, it might seem like little evidence to put to us, like,
you know, that's not a whole lot. Sure, of course, you know, you got some bullets, shells, some cigarette butts, maybe DNA or something. But the scene alone, it doesn't really tell a whole lot of a story. But to investigators it painted a very clear picture. The items left behind suggested that whoever had committed the crime had spent a significant time in the forest, unhurried, undeterred by the
risks of being caught. They sat there, they made a fire, they relaxed by the fire, smoked cigarettes, perhaps even killed their victims then and there and buried them, maybe even relaxing afterwards as well. Jeez, that's the picture of painted to authorities. Yeah, it wasn't long before the two victims were identified through forensic work. It was Caroline Clark, who was twenty one years old, and Juanne Walters, who is
twenty two, Both British nationals. Carolyn and Joanne, they traveled to Sydney together earlier that year, hoping to find work as nanny's. They had been missing since May of nineteen ninety two, and their tragic discovery marked a set of Australia's most infamous murder investigation. When the coroner examined the bodies of Carolyn Clark and Joanne Walters, the full extent
of the brutality that they endured became horrifyingly clear. The details uncovered during the autopsies painted a picture of torture and horrific deaths. Joanne had been bound and gagged, then viciously stabbed multiple times over. One of the stab wounds had been so severe and so deep that it severed her spinal core, wowing her paralyzed as the attack continued. Oh my gosh, this injury would have rendered her absolutely
defenseless against the ongoing assault. Investigators also noted that her pants were found with the zipper down, but the button fastened up, leading them to believe that her clothes had been removed and then hastily redressed.
Okay, yep, I was like, what does that mean? But yeah, that makes sense.
Carolyn Clark faced an equally nightmarish fate. In addition to being stabbed as well, Carolyn had been shot in the head at least ten times with a twenty two caliber rifle. Four bullets remained lodged inside of her skull, which investigators
collected as evidence. The pattern of unshot suggested that she had been used for target practice, though determining which shot had ultimately been fatal was impossible, So essentially, it is more than likely that this individual sat back at the fire using her as target practice as he was relaxing.
Holy shit, that is like next level brutal. Yeah, oh my goodness, gracious. Okay.
Now, I have mentioned this on the podcast before, but twenty two caliber bullets are notorious for being used in mob executions back in the day. Now this was due to their small size and the fact that they often remained lodged inside the skull rather than exiting the body, so when being shot in the head, the bullet had enough power to break through the skull, but not exit through the skull. Again, so it would enter the skull, bounce around inside, ensuring it like scrambled the brains, ensuring
it killed the person right. And also since it didn't exit, it made for easier clean So I mean, I digress a little bit, but it's not surprising to think that a twenty two colored bullet, twenty two caliber bullet, there we go, would be lodged inside the skull, as they are notorious for this.
Okay.
So, following the grim discovery of the bodies, investigators expanded their search in the surrounding area, hoping to uncover further evidence or even worse, additional victims. However, after an extensive sweep of the forest, no other remains of significant leads were found. The lack of additional physical evidence left police with no more questions or sorry, no more answers, just
more questions. As news of the double homicide began to spread, local communities began to fear the possibility of a serial killer lurking in Polongo State forest. Some pointed to the increasing number of missing hitchhikers in the region over the
past few years as evidence of a pattern. But despite these concerns, authorities initially dismissed the idea that a serial killer was responsible for these At the time, there was no solid evidence suggests that such a crime had occurred before, leaving police hesitant to jump to conclusions and just understanding they had a single case of murder on their hands,
not a serial killer. Now, despite the evidence collected from the bodies of Joanne and Carolyn and from the surrounding area in the forest, police found themselves at a stand still with the investigation. Clues from the crime scene offered very little in the way of concrete leads as to
who might actually be responsible for responsible for this. In their efforts to gain more insight into the killer's behavior, investigators consulted doctor Rod Milton, who was a seasoned forensic psychiatrists who had worked with the New South Wales Police
Force for over two decades at this point. Given his extensive experience in crime scene analysis, authorities believe that doctor Milton might be able to help develop a psychological profile of this perpetrator that they're trying to deal with and find. So when doctor Milton was brought into the investigation, he
visited the scene with the investigators. He meticulously walked through and combed the area where the bodies had been discovered, taking note of the terrain, the whole forest, its isolation, and any possible reason that the killer might have chosen that particular spot. He also studied detailed photographs of the
crime scene and reviewed the forensic reports. After piecing together the available information, doctor Milton crafted a profile of the individual he believed was responsible for the murders at hand. According to doctor Milton's analysis, the killer was likely in his mid thirties with a history of violent or aggressive behavior.
This person was familiar with the area, comfortable navigating the secluded landscape of the forest, and, most disturbingly, he believed the killer was driven by sadistic desires, finding pleasure in the suffering of others.
Well, yeah, that makes sense. I still can't get over this target practice thing. Yeah, I'm like trying to pay at but that's the only thing going through my brain because it's so terrible.
Well, and that highlights the fact that he's like, this is a sadistic person who, yeah, like you know, finds pleasure in this person suffering. Yeah, now, I guarantee you that Unfortunately, though she had gone through this you know, abuse and murder, thankfully she wouldn't have been alive for every single shot. Well yeah, yeah, so that is, I mean, the silver lining in it, but it still doesn't make the fact that he continued to use her, whether alive or dead, for target practice any better.
No, No, honestly, that is one of the worst things I've ever heard in my whole life. I know, right, and I have heard a lot of true crying.
We've gone through a lot of shit on this show, and yeah, that is that's one of those things. That's that's it's up there.
Well, yeah, I feel like when something said that shocks me. It is. It's pretty bad, you know.
Yeah, fair enough, It takes a lot at this point. Yeah, Now, they did have this psychological profile from doctor Milton. However, it wasn't enough to move the investigation forward at all. All they had was a little bit of an insight into this individual. But there's still no leads, there's no fingerprints, no DNA. They have some evidence, but nothing to connect to any person, at least not yet. Progress remained frustratingly slow,
to say the least. Investigators continue to follow up on leads and scrutinize any reports of suspicious behavior or suspicious disappearances in the region, but their efforts produced very little. The case seemed to be going absolutely cold, and as time passed it faded from the forefront of the investigation as things moved on. But then thirteen months later, in October of nineteen ninety three, the case was reignited, this with the discovery of two more bodies in Belongo State Forest.
The victims were identified as nineteen year old James Gibson and Deborah Everest, who had been missing nineteen eighty nine. James and Deborah were both Native Australians and were last seen heading south from Sydney to attend a conservation festival in December of that year. Their decomposed remains bore grim similarities to the earlier victims found. Both have been stabbed multiple times, with deep wounds that were deep enough to
sever their spinal cords, rendering them paralyzed. Yeah, just with Walters and Clark. Investigators found a makeshift fire pit and spent casings near the body. The location of the crime scene was disturbingly close to where Walters and Clark had been found, less than one hundred feet away.
This fucker, hey, the fact that they're just like enjoying this and like, I don't know because you just you think sitting by the fire, you know, you're like chilling, it's like a good night kind of thing. Yeah, and he's doing this while he's taking people's lots like lives.
Yeah. Oh man, Now I do have to say, we don't know for sure that he's sitting by the fire pit and killing them.
Yeah, but he's still a disgusting piece of shit that shouldn't be enjoying his life in a fire.
I agree. What could be the case is they could already be deceased and he takes them out there and he's chilling by the fire, burying their bodies and using their remains as target practice.
We don't know, celebrating that they're done with or something. Right, Well, maybe like that he's well he's done with them.
Maybe maybe not even celebrating, but he's got a job to do now, right, He's got to bury bodies. So now, maybe the fire pit this is way of like taking breaks and relaxing, kicking back after some hard work. You know. Not that I'm saying that's what you should do or make sense to me, but for someone like that with very little empathy towards the actions and these victims and everything.
That's what he does.
Yeah, yeah, that could be the case. It could be very well the case that he's sitting by the fire torturing these people and using them as target practice while they're still alive too. Unfortunately we don't know.
I'm saying he but that was never even determined I guess either, was it?
Well, it was determined in the profile by doctor Milton. They're assuming, right, they're assuming, but.
Probably because of strength and stuff too.
I'm right, most likely, and I mean, let's be honest, the ratio of male to female perpetrators, it's a little bit lopsided. The odds of it being male, it's most likely.
Yeah.
So, with this new discovery about these new victims, found any lingering doubt about the nature of the murders vanished. The methodical violence of the and the proximity of the bodies, and the consistence, the consistency in the murders. This was clear that this was the killer's hunting ground basically at this point, and of course that a serial killer was
at large praying on victims. The police now we're certain that they were deemed of dealing with a repeat offender, and they intensified their efforts to catch this person.
Okay, I have one other question too, because isn't there quite a gap between when these people are missing and then when they're actually like discovered.
Well like these last two ones they were they were killed in I believe eighty nine, and then they're found in ninety three.
Ok yeah, for a few years. Yeah, that's very interesting.
And they had actually gone missing before the original ones. Really, yes, okay, so it is I believe they would have been in that forest at the time of the surf if I'm not mistaken, huh. Okay, yes. So anyways, Desperate to make some headway in the case, the new South Wales Police Department brought in Superintendent Civil Small, a seasoned police commissioner known for his experience handling complex investigation. They're basically bringing
in the big guns. You're like, we need someone, well, yeah, bringing Small, We need them.
You know, I have four victims at this point, so exactly.
Now, the brutality of this case was unlike anything Small had ever encountered before. With the way of the investigation now on his shoulders, Small wasted no time in getting to work. One of Small's first moves was to establish a large task force dedicated to scouring the vast expanse of the state forest. He was determined to find more victims if they were out there. His instincts proved correct.
Almost exactly one month after the last two bodies were discovered, police found yet another victim on November first, Simone Schmidel, a young German backpacker. Simone had been hitchhiking along the Hume Highway south of Sydney in search of work. Her remains told the chillingly familiar story. She'd been stabbed in the back, the wound severing her spine, immobilizing her as she was subject to further torment.
Oh my gosh, that is that, like you said, Like that is just like complete psych catic really, as as with.
The other victims. Near Simone's body were the telltale signs of the killer's method, a crude fire pit, twenty two caliber shell casings, and a shallow grave partially concealed by debris. Small now felt certain that the grim pattern would continue, and he was right. Just three days later, the task force uncovered two more bodies, that of Anya Habsheed, twenty years old, and her boyfriend Gabdor Nugibber, who's twenty one. Both German tourists had been missing since December of nineteen
ninety one. This new crime scene bore many of the trademarks of the earlier murders, but with some gruesome twists. Gabor had been strangled and then shot multiple times, his body left with his genes unzipped, mirroring the other victims. Anya had been brutally stabbed, but the discovery of her body revealed a shocking macob difference. She had been decapitated.
Hustigators believe that a machete was the tool used to sever her head from her body, but despite extensive searches, her head was never recovered.
No. Yeah, oh man, okay, huh, I can't believe. Like, so he's like paralyzing these people on purpose and so that they really really can't defend themselves. Yes, and then just going through with his acts.
Yes.
Oh, this case, this case is shocking the shit out of me.
Yeah. No, he's he's attacking the spinal cord on purpose. He is paralyzing them on purpose so they cannot get away or defend themselves.
Wow. Okay.
By this point, it was clear to Smalls that as long as the murderer was at large, no one was safe. With bodies mounting and the media attention growing, Small publicly admitted that a serial killer was indeed not at large, but active in the state forest. He took the unprecedented step of releasing photos of the victims in hope that someone somewhere might have information that could help crack this case. As disturbing them as the murders were, the killer's choice
of victims seemed very deliberate. Each one was a young, adventurous person backpackers, hitchhikers, exploring new places and seeking a care free life. But tragically, their pursuit of freedom and excitement had been what brought them to the horrific violent and the killer's methods were also varied and sadistic, making
it difficult for investigators to pinpoint who they were looking for. Yes, there were some similarities, but the murderer had been had been using a wide array of techniques to actually kill out the killings their stabbings, their strangulations, their shooting, bludgeoning, decapitation. There's a lot of varying things still going on. As pressure mounted, Small and his task force were running out
of leads. Despite having a way all the physical evidence, including the forensic data from the crime scenes, the investigation was at a frustrating standstill. They still could not connect the murders to a person. That is until nineteen ninety four, when an unexpected break came from a man living on the other side of the world.
Oh wow, okay, here I thought maybe they would go about like trying to set him up or something, you know, set who up the killer, like pretend like they were hitchhiking.
Oh batim.
Yeah.
Oh, I mean, I don't know if they did that, but I mean, that would have been a potentially of doing it. It worked, but when you do that, you also risk Yes, someone's life too, right.
Now, Yeah, it's terrifying. I would I don't think I would ever volunteer for something like that.
No, No, I'm definitely not going to volunteers tribute. No, thank you, do not call me Catnus Everdean, I'm good. Anyways, this breakthrough came from a man named Paul Onions. Now, Paul had been watching the news. He's watching the news. There's this coverage of this investigation that he saw, and he saw what Smalls was talking about. This murder, This spree happening in Australia. Now he's a british Man and
he recognized some key details from this story. He picked up the phone and he called the New South Wales Police. His account would soon prove to be the breakthrough Smalls had been desperately seeking. So Paul encountered a man on Thursday January twenty fifth, nineteen ninety as he walked along the Hume Highway south of Sydney, Okay. So he had been on vacation in Australia in the area, and like many travelers, Paul had come to Australia, you know, seeking
that adventure. And in the week since his arrival, he had been hitchhiking across the country. Now, I did already mention this and the intro, but hitchhiking was a common mode of transportation at the time. Paul never thought anything about the risks that might be involved. He trusted the kindness of strangers. Considered safe people did it all the time, right, However, he was unaware that this trust could would nearly cost
him his life. Now, Paul, as he was going along, he was thirsty and he was tired from hours of walking. He approached a small corner store, and he decided it was good good time to take a break. As he adjusted the backpack on his shoulder, a silver truck pulled up alongside him. The driver hopped out. He was a muscular looking man with a very distinctive handlebar mustache, and he asked Paul, hey, you need a lyft. Grateful for the offer, Paul accepted without any hesitation. Yeah, sure, right,
it's safe. I've been hitch hiking constantly while down here to see other people hitch hiking. People picked me up. It's normal.
Yeah, and this guy's just being nice.
Exactly, so he's like, yeah, sounds great. So the man introduced himself as Bill, and after a brief exchange of pleasantries, you know, hey, how's it going, my name? Is this where you're headed? You know that sort of stuff, they both climbed into his truck and they took off. At first, the ride seemed normal enough, but as the miles passed by, Paul began to sense something a little bit off and unsettling about Bill. He became increasingly agitated, ranting about various topics,
including racist views and xenophobic things. You know, people who are from outside the country and I mean, Paul's from outside of the country, and it began to make Paul a little bit uncomfortable. The conversation took an even darker turn when Bill began to ask Paul a series of odd, probing questions about him and his life, like was he expect was anyone expecting him when he arrived at his destination?
Did he have any military or special forces training? And most ominously, did anyone know exactly where he was headed?
Holy shit? Hey, could you imagine being asked those questions?
Yeah? Ah, Now a lot of these things are not generally questions that are asked from hitchhikers, right, well.
No, not to that extent really, like where you go in? But is someone expecting you there? Like that is just creepy.
Yeah, it's getting a little bit too personal here. So as these personal questions began piling up, because like one or two are fine, right, but like when you start asking more and more, I mean, there's an alarm that goes off in your head, and Paul definitely had that alarm go off. So what started as a friendly ride was rapidly becoming something much darker, and the tipping point came when Bill suddenly pulled the truck over to the side of the road, claiming he needed to receive a
cassette from beneath his seat. Okay, now, Paul was suspicious as he glanced at the center console where you know, they're between both their armrests, and there was there was a lot of cassettes just sitting there. There was no reason for Bill to need another one or why he would store it there and all the other ones. Yeah, but Bill reaching under a seat was not reaching for a cassette, not for music. He was reaching for a length of rope. And Paul knew in that moment that
he had to act fast because something wasn't right. His hands fumbled to him buckle his belt, but now Bill held a revolver that he pulled from out from underneath the seat as well, and he aimed it directly at Paul, announcing that he's being robbed. But Paul wasn't going to sit idly by and wait for what he knew could be much worse. He knew this situation was only going to escalate, and with adrenaline pumping, he pushed open the truck door and he bolted, leaving his backpack and all
his belongings in that truck. Now Bill also chased after him. Paul ran for his life, and Bill began firing the gun, with bullets whizzing past him. As he just narrowly escaped being shot. He darted into the highway, frantically waving for help. Car slowed, but they didn't stop. They chose to ignore him, being a man panically waving like that probably looks crazy, right,
so they passed him by. Now, just when it seemed hope was fading and that Bill was actually going to get to him, a car finally came to a halt right in front of Paul. The drive was a woman by the name of Joanne Barry. Now, she had her family crammed in the back seat, and, though initially hesitant to let Paul in, his panic and repeated shouts about a gunman chasing him convinced her to have him let in. And she hit the gas.
Okay, wow, thank goodness. Hey, like, even her family in the back seat, and she still stops.
Yeah, no, he piled it. That's amazing, and he's like, go and she did so Joanne sped away, leaving Bill and his truck in the dust. Joanne, since this situation was very serious, I mean, of course, right, yeah, and she drove Paul to the nearest police station in Bool. Now. Once there, Paul relayed the terrifying details of the encounter to an officer who took down his statement. Though shaken, Paul reported the full incident and the officer filed the report.
But unfortunately, nothing ever really came of it.
Okay, so this was never like linked up until now, it was never really linked. Huh.
So Paul was now left without his backpack, pass port, all the possessions. Yeah. Yeah, So he went to Sydney to replace his documents, and as soon as he could he left Australia. He caught the first flight back to the UK, hoping to put this whole nightmare behind him. And for a few years, Paul thought it was the end of this experience in Australia, unaware that his encounter with Bill would become this critical turning point in this notorious serial killer case.
Yeah. Well, he is very lucky to be alive.
Oh is he ever? Because he was facing death?
Oh yeah, yeah.
And I have a feeling that if he didn't bolt, he would have been buried in that forest and potentially discovered along the rest of the others.
Yeah one, Oh my goodness.
So the story that Paul told seemed almost too incredible to believe. Could it really be after all this time, that this missing link just kind of popped out of nowhere. So police were a little bit like suspicious, like is this a real story? Is this a real lead? All this right? So Superintendent Small, he knew that he couldn't rely on just this man word alone, so he reached out to the one person who could verify Paul's account, Joanne Barry, the woman whose car Paul had frantically climbed
it in and she had driven him to safety. So after speaking with Joanne and hearing her confirm every detail of Paul's story, Small realized that he could be this could be the breakthrough in the case. So, without wasting any time, Small arranged to have Paul flown to Australia, and once there, Paul was shown a photographic lineup of potential suspects. Without any hesitation, Paul pointed to a man in the lineup and said that is him, one hundred percent, and that man was not a man by the name
of Bill. That man was an individual by the name of Ivan Milat.
Okay, So they already had had this guy kind of like as a suspect obviously, but they just hadn't been able to, like, you know, have enough evidence to be like this is the one.
Yeah, there was no linking this man, I mean, like, so, Ivan was no strain to law enforcement at this time whatsoever. For years, he had been on their radar. He was known for his violent temper in defiance to hoard authority. He had a long record of criminal behavior. He was, in fact, one of the most potential suspects in these murders and police had him like on the radar. Yeah, but until this moment, there was no evidence they came him to the crime.
Huh.
So Paul's identification was the first piece of the puzzle, and Small knew he had enough to take the next step. Armed with this new information, Small presented the evidence to the judge and secured a warrant to search Ivan's property. On the morning in May twenty second, nineteen ninety four, nearly fifty police officers surrounded Ivan's home. They were dressed in all black and bulletproof vests and prepared for resistance. They moved in and as they stormed the house. Ivan
was unfazed at first. He just kind of laughed it off, and apparently he thought that the raid was some kind of prank by someone one of his friends or something at first. Seriously, yeah, which made it much easier for police to get him because he's like, oh, it's a joke, it's not real, when really it's like, no, we actually just stormed your house and you didn't fight back at all. So that's good.
That is good. Yeah, because yeah, if he I mean, but who the heck would just think that's a.
Joke, I know, So yeah, it quickly became clear to Ivan that it was no joke, but it was unfortunately for him too Little Two Lakes. He was already in cuffs.
I mean, I think they would have got him either way, though they seem like they're pretty prepared.
Oh the fifty people.
Yeah, like, I think they would have got him either way.
They would have, but I mean the problem is maybe they would have got him not alive.
Right.
Yeah, but Ivan was arrested, and he was arrested for the assault on Paul Onions. Okay, okay, but the police were far from finished because of course the search weren't right, Yes, so they searched his house, and it yielded a staggering amount of evidence.
Hey, I can imagine.
Scattered across the rooms were pieces of guns, including parts of a twenty two caliber rifle, the same type used in the murders. Ammunition case, sorry, ammunitions casings were found, and subsequent ballistics testings would later match the bullets recovered from those to Joanne Walter's skull. Okay, so the bullets found in his house were a positive match for those
found in the remains of Joanne. Now, even more damning was a discovery of personal belongings that once belonged to Ivan's victims, things like backpack, sleeping bags, and camping gear belonging to murdered travelers who were found throughout the property, and in the later search of Ivan's mother's home, police uncovered a curved machete locked away in a glass case. Investigators believed it could have been used in the decapitation of Anya.
Mm hmm. Here, I'm just like waiting for them to also find her head. Does that happen?
Her head was never found.
Okay, I don't know why. I just was like, it's in the freezer, that's just where my head went, but.
That's where your head went.
Terrible terrible words.
Wow.
Shit, Anyway, I was expecting that to be found, but it's not.
Hey, nope, okay, definitely not so. With this mountain of evidence, Small's brought Ivan in for questioning. However, Ivan was a seasoned criminal who had spent a lot of his life in and out of police stations and enduring questionings and all this sort of stuff. He wasn't intimidated at all. And he sat there and he refused to cooperate. He just sat remained very tight lipped, said nothing. And that's it.
That's honestly incredible to me that someone being that guilty, like they've found a lot of things, can just sit there like whatever kind of thing. Yeap, that's shocking, I know.
Now. Once sabilistic tests came back to match the bullets found the crime scene, as I already mentioned right that they came but this is when they actually came back, Ivan was then officially charged with seven counts of first degree murder. He was linked officially to the other ones, but still Ivan refused to talk. He was adamant of his innocence and despite the accumulating evidence against him, He's just like, it wasn't me.
It wasn't me.
Yeah, you can, you can call him shaggy at this point.
Wasn't me. And I'm honestly, I bet you anything. There's there's probably a few more, or even like this one. I can't remember his name? Was it Bill? Where? Who he? Like? Almost? You know? Ones that got away?
Oh, Paul Paulry? Yeah, No, Ivan claimed his name was Bill, right, Okay.
I was like, there is a Bill in the story.
Okay, well a fake bill, a fake bill, yeah, counterfeit.
See what I did?
I know? Yeah?
So when when Paul certain not all name names mixed up here? When Ivan's defense attorney, John Marston, who had represented him in the past, actually arrived and he took a look at the case, the overwhelming case against him, Yeah, he immediately urged his client to plead guilty.
Okay, yeah, I thought he was gonna be like, I'm out John, helping you.
John took one look at the case. He's like, Ivan, plead guilty because you fucked.
Oh my gosh.
Could you imagine His defense attorney.
Is like, nope, there's nothing I can do basically, huh.
Ivan, however, insisted that he was innocent and he fired John Marston right then and there and continued to proclaim his innocence. So Ivan entered a plea of not guilty on all charges, and this set the stage for a very high profile trial.
What a cocky motherfucker really, I know, right? Unreal? Unreal.
After numerous delays, the trial finally began on March of nineteen ninety six. The man who had come face to face with me lat or sorry, Ivan Melat and lived to tell a tale, Paul Onion, was the prosecution's star witness. Despite the defense's attempt to disrespect him, Paul handled the cross examination with confidence. Sorry, I said disrespect, but discredit was the what I meant to say. Yeah, So he held the cross examination very well and with very full
confidence in his story. Paul's testimony, along with the vast amount of physical evidence, eventually proved to be too much for Ivan, and after weeks of testimony, the jury was left with very little doubt. Now, I do want to say, as far as physical evidence goes, I believe they had over four hundred pieces of physical evidence.
Okay, and he's still just ut there wasn't me like, are you kidding me?
Yeap, So we're talking matching bullets. We're talking the cartridges, we're talking the machete found. But I don't think they can they found blood or anything. I think it's just you know, yeah, they're talking about like items, personal items. Potentially they even had Paul's personal items that he was able to identify. I'm not too sure they had all these things. They had up to four hundred things pieces of evidence connecting him.
Well, they did a damn good job, then that's awesome.
Yeah they did so. In an attempt to defend himself, Ivan took the stand, and of course he just claimed his innocence. However, his defense unraveled very quickly under cross examination, and he weakly attempted to shift the blame onto his brothers for all the evidence found in his home, an explanation that failed to hold up under scrutiny in court. Right The trial, which lasted for a total of fifteen weeks,
concluded on July twenty seventh in nineteen ninety six. After three days of deliberation, the jury returned with a unanimous verdict guilty on all accounts. Ivan Milat was sentenced to seven consecutive life sentences for the murders. As well as an additional six years for the assault on Paul Onions. Though Melat was now locked away, police believed that the dark secrets of the State forest had yet to be fully unlocked and uncovered. So numerous unsolved disappearances along the
Hume Highway raised the possibility that Melat. I'm sorry, Ivan Melat, I have his last name written in here several times. Sorry, I'm refrained. So Ivan was responsible for even more murders because it's like they're still missing people out right, right, But despite thorough investigation, authorities were unable to definitively tie
him to any of these other missing cases. Yeah. Now, in two thousand and five, Ivan's former attorney, John Marston made a reassurgence in this case with a startling claim Ivan had allegedly confessed to him that a woman had sometimes been involved in carrying out the murders. Huh Now, I just want to point this out. Sorry, go ahead, Well.
I was just going to say that kind of makes sense for like getting easily like more people trusting to get in his vehicle and stuff, right, so.
For sure, but also that's a confession. Yeah, Like Ivan just confessed and he's.
Always like an ins Oh, yeah.
He's like someone else helped me murder, right, that is totally that's a confession, totally.
Yeah, Okay, I went way off on something else.
Yeah, but yeah, that totally is so yeah, I just want to throw that out there.
But this fueled speculation of yeah, someone else being involved, right, because a lot of people for a long time believe that because of the sheer brutality the crimes, particularly the particularly the methodical torture and overpowering of the victims, suggested the involvement of more than one person. However, despite these
suspicions these claims, no accomplice has ever been identified or charged. Now, adding to that uncertain though surrounding Ivan's saying that you know another woman was involved or whatever, there was someone who came forward after his arrest, a woman asserting that her husband by the name of Win Kasperceek had been the true culprit behind the backpack murders and not Ivan. Now this woman claims that, yeah, it's like it's my husband who's the murderer.
She really doesn't want to be with her husband anymore.
Hey, apparently now Winn had eventually been arrested in nineteen ninety four but it was not for any of the killings, and these claims cast a lot of doubt in the mind of people. But I mean, as I mentioned, there's more than four hundred pieces of evidence of items that link I even himself to Well.
Yeah, I mean it's certain that he was very much so involved. It's just trying to figure out if there's someone else as well.
Yeah, but this woman claims it's her husband, not Ivan. All the evidence points to Ivan, nothing points to her husband.
Well, maybe he's the one that has all these other victims, you know, who knows now.
May twenty nineteen, Ivan was admitted to the Prince of Wales Hospital for serious health issues and was soon diagnosed with terminal esopha geal and stomach cancer. With his time running out, police made several attempts to extract a deathbed confession from him, hoping he might finally admit to the crimes or reveal unknown victims and where to find them.
Investigators visited him a total of eight times using different methods, you know, approaching him with different investigators showing him videos of interviews with victims' families, hoping to stir a sense of guilt or remorse. But Ivan remained silent and remains saying that he's innotent, innotant innocent.
Just nothing from him.
Yeah, he's just until the very end he's like nope.
Huh. I mean, I mean that's kind of surprising, but also not really because this guy seems like he's a piece of shit.
So yeah. On October twenty seventh, twenty nineteen, Ivan Milett died from cancer, taking his secrets to the grave without ever confessing to murders for which that he had convicted. He was convicted except for the alleged I mean, it wasn't directly from him. It was his defense attorney that said he said it.
But I feel like that's so interesting too, because I thought, maybe I'm completely wrong, but I thought things that you said to your defense attorney is supposed to just stay with them, isn't it.
Kind of I mean, technically he was also fired to.
I don't know, okay, okay, not.
Certain but anyways, despite his refusal to admit guilt, Ivan's brittal crime has left an incredible mark on Australia, this being one of the most prolific cases in Australia's history, and as I mentioned, the intro This story even inspired the horror film Wolf Creek and yeah.
Yeah, I'm not certain I want to watch that.
We will be watching it tonight. Are going to check it out?
Apparently I don't get a choice.
Yeah. Now the movie is, though there are some similarities, it is a bit different and the uh without spoiling anything, they managed to even Paul's experiences a bit of into the story as well, which I really like.
Okay, so so yeah, probably scariest shit though I can only imagine this movie.
Oh yeah, it's it's interesting.
Cool. So well, I'm going to edit during it so that I have something else to like focus on that right distraction?
Make you feel better? Yeah, fair enough? But yeah, that is as I mentioned, that's the story of the Wolf Creek Killer because it got the name from the movie. The Backpack Murders and Ivan Milatt all wrapped into one horrific douche canoe.
It's so sad that just like as the years have gone on and stuff, it's how evident it is that you just can't trust anyone, you know, like back then it's so cool that well not cool, but like that you could go in someone's vehicle and I mean like probably not fearlet are ninety nine times out of a
thousand are probably even greater than that. Like you're fine, Like it's fine, You're just getting to meet other people, right, But then so much shit has come about of this trusting people, and now it's just the world's changed.
Well, I do want to say say one thing here. I do think I mean, and I'm saying this because like it's such a it's so easy to say that there's so much distrust in the world and there's so many bad people out there. I do still think that there's so many good people out there.
Oh, the majority of people are good.
But you're saying back then, hitchhiking ninety nine, one hundred or what was your number.
I think it's a nine hundred and ninety nine out of a thousand. It went, well, I'm just going to go probably I'm.
Going to go percentage wise ninety nine percent out of time, nine percent out of time, ninety nine percent of the time. You used to be able to go hitchhiking and be safe. Well, nowadays the implication is that that number is much lower. Imagine Paul's situation happening right now today and wherever you live, Okay, someone is chasing you, wanting to kill you, and you run out into traffic, I guarantee ninety nine percent of those people are willing to help you.
Well, kay, I'm not saying it's it's more scary now, per se. I'm just saying we've learned from all these stories that like, I mean, we're just people are a little bit more like, you know, they know what could potentially happen more so it's like a little bit more distrusting or whatever. I still think that there's still like just as many good people and bad people and stuff.
But yeah, no, they just.
Think nowadays, more people would stop in that.
No, I'm not saying more people would stop. I'm saying then, in that exact incident with Paul, when he climbed into I believe her name was Joanne, Yeah, he had a ninety nine percent chance of climbing into someone's car who was going to help him not hurt him, right, And I think if that were to be you or me or whoever's listening you as well, if you were doing that today, you have a ninety nine percent chance to climb into the vehicle of someone who will help you
hurt you. Yeah, Yes, there's distrust. People don't want to bring in a weirdo into their car. You don't want to get into a stranger's car. That distrust is much larger than it was then, But I think the rate of good people willing to help you is still there.
Can you imagine that if you got into someone's vehicle who is also a complete piece of shit and then it just happens like again, oh man, holy like you would have some shitty luck. Hey.
That reminds me of like a TikTok I saw back in the day, where it's like someone's hitch hiking and they get into the vehicle and then the drivers like going there, like you're not a serial killer? Are you? And then the person hitchhiking's like me no, he's like you and the driver's like what me no, And they're both like no, And then like the person hitchhiking's like okay, good. Could you imagine the odds of two serial killers being in the car and the guy's like, wait, you are a serial killer?
Me too?
And then it's like wait, really you are you the the hitchhikerumer And then it's just like two murderers like getting along.
Oh, like a budding friendship forming.
Hey pretty much?
Oh brutal?
Thankfully that's just a TikTok and not real life.
But yeah, uh, well, we have covered stories. I feel like we're like bad people, murderers, some connect in some way and become friends.
Oh definitely, we have the thing. Yeah. Yeah, and we have covered other hitch hiking situations. Like I'm thinking, what's the was it the kenon Barbie or was it like Girl in a Box? Have we covered the girl in the box story we have?
Yeah?
Okay, I think that that's one.
There's a couple that we have done and I can't recall like the exact stories off the top of my head.
I can't recall all of them either, but there's one that's sticking out to me and I think it's I think it's Girl in a Box.
Yeah.
I think that's the one where she was hitchhiking as well, because it was like a family in the car and she got in and then it, yeah, it went sours and didn't they.
Like put her head in a box in the car?
I think so? Yeah, I think so the box inside was carpeted to prevent the streams getting up.
Yeah, just the worst oh man. Yeah, people suck, like, very few people suck, but they very few.
People suck and they ruin it for the rest of us.
Yes, exactly. So that's the moral of the story.
That's the moral. Yeah, moral of the story is some people suck and they wreck it for us.
Yeah. Yeah.
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of the to shoot. But yeah, all our links are down below. Thanks for being here.
Yeah, thank you so much. So until Friday, Stay Wicked.
Was that good enough?
I thought, so do it again? Then?
Okay, stay Wicked.
I think the first one was better.
Shit, Okay, Stay Wicked.
There you go.