Before we start today, we would like to dedicate this episode to Ali Moore. She was a friend of the show and a true crime enthusiast who recently and unexpectedly lost her life. You are our official badass of the day, Alley. May you rest in peace.
We all know that dark Words Don't drink the kool Aid and its unfortunate origins. It was birthed by a cult, and it showed just how many people can really be manipulated. Cults are also infamous for extreme idealisms and even sometimes abuse. The ant Hill Kids is a story of a Canadian cult that became so extreme that their leader not only claimed to be a messiah, but abused the members and
performed extremely gruesome acts upon them. For example, though he had no training and he has no doctor, he sure pretended like he was. My name's Ben and I'm Nicole.
And you're listening to Wicked and.
Grim, a true crime podcasting. The following material in more mature audience listener discretion. I'm fully disclosing this right now. This is part one of The ant Hill Kids.
Wow, you are too kind.
I'm letting you know just so you don't like get all the way to the end of this episode, and I'm like, tune in next week Wicked, and you're like, fuck, you.
Know, well there's deaf only one or two episodes where we have done that.
Yeah, I know that was kind of me. I've learned my lesson because there was recoil from that, and I was like, okay, maybe you know, some notice will be nice. So yeah, this is a part one of two parts. So yes, it is most certainly we were. Actually, we did a poll over on Patreon. We let our patrons choose the next case. We put three different options up, this being one of them, and uh yeah, this one one, but by quite a bit, and there was a few people being like, oh no, the antil.
Kids, good luck to you.
Yeah. So here we are actually before while we're talking about Patreon, I'm gonna just get right in and thank the patrons that signed up this week.
Sound good, sounds great?
Okay, So we had Renee Scott, Katie Stetler, Amelia and Clay Swanson. They all joined up over on Patreon. They're getting behind the scenes content the extra episode at the end of the month, all that good stuff, good juicy stiff exactly. So thank you guys so much. For signing up. We appreciate the absolute shit out of you guys, and even if you're just listening right now, we appreciate the shit out of you guys too. Don't think that getting
off the leash because trust me. Yeah, awesome, She's right.
My wine is also freaking amazing, is it now? Holy heck? This is probably one of the best roses I've ever had.
They don't feed it to me because might drink it.
All from eight generation in.
Oh my God, Kamloops.
Summerland. Okay, you gotta just try it, Just try it.
Okay, I did open a beer ready. Prior to this episode, we did a little pre show for Patreon, so.
It's dang good. I'm gonna have to read it at Oh my gosh, are you cudding? Actually you're not too far off.
I guess that's good.
Dang good.
Eh yep, sorry, I gurgled your wine.
Yeah my gosh. Do you want some freaking hallow candy while you're at it?
Is there any left?
No? Oh?
Okay?
Or you know, slurp your margarita?
Why not? We We got to let people know a few things here. There is a little bit of extra stuff that we're putting out there into the world, into the world. It's true, that's what we're doing.
True.
For example, you know how Wicked and Grim comes out with an episode every single Tuesday, right.
I am aware of that.
Well, our other podcast, Fearful, is officially coming out with a web with a web I was gonna say episode an episode every single Wednesday now, so you can listen to Wicked and Grim every Tuesday and Fearful every single Wednesday.
That's amazing.
So there's currently ten episodes out for Fearful, but another one is getting uploaded tomorrow.
Yeah. That's freaking exciting right there.
It's super exciting. Yeah wow, and not only that, do you want to hit him up on our other platform, tell them about we're doing over there.
Well, do we have set days really for that yet?
No, there's not really set days for that yet.
But okay, well we do how We've mentioned it before, but we do have a YouTube channel. It's called Wicked Life. Yeah, it's pretty wicked. Actually, you don't say, I do say, and on there we have vlogs and we well am I allowed to We're also going to be doing another podcast. I'm like, am I allowed to be saying?
Yes? It's in the works. It's going to be a little bit before it comes out because it will be a video podcast over there, So we got a few things to get lined up first, but Wicked Life podcast vlogs are happening over there, just a whole yeah, good stuff about our life and yeah.
Because I mean our lifestyle, it's a little it's a little different at times, Like we live in a tiny home.
We quit the nine to five jobs to tase on dreams viewers.
Yeah, so like we have we both have businesses that we can kind of teach on from that aspect as well. So there's like there's many things, yeah, that can be there. It's gonna be pretty cool.
Plus we have two huskies, a black cat and eight chickens and those are definitely some source of interest in our lives and subjects of a few blocks.
And I even like we live in Northern b C. What's Northern BC all about?
Well, there is definitely one video I want to do on YouTube where we talk about having a tiny home in Northern BC. Yeah, because there's none of that on YouTube of tiny homes in like the north. Yeah. Yeah, Wicked Life link is down below if you want to go check it out.
Yeah, it's pretty cool.
It is. It's pretty cool and real cool, real real cool. Well we digress. Are you ready to hop into the ant hill? Kiss?
Oh?
I don't know.
I thought I was. Now I'm nervous.
Are you sure I'm a little nervous. You think you can take this one?
I think I can? Yeah? Yeah, I do like cult cases.
Okay, well, I'm gonna just call you the Little Train that Could because I think I can. I think I can even clue into that. That's awesome. Okay, Well this is going to start off with an individual by the name of Roche Terrio aka Moses Moses. Yeah, ok so, Roche was a very disturbed individual, to say the least. Now. He was born on May sixteenth, nineteen forty seven in Sagoone, Quebec, Canada, and led a life marked by religious fervor. Let's say, not only that, but delusions of grandeur and a very
twisted interpretation of biblical teachings. So he was raised in the thetfurt Minds excuse me, a small city set in south central Quebec of Canada. He displayed remarkable intelligence when he was young, but dropped out of school at the age of thirteen, and from there he began immersing himself in the Old Testament, particularly the strict Code of masculine authority.
It portrayed awesome, lovely. Yeah, that's always fantastic to get that, you know, good old strict masculine, you know, stuff in there from the good old days.
Yeah, exactly what everyone needs.
Definitely not so. Rocha's troubled childhood was he was. It was marred by abuse from his father and fueled with obsession with apocalyptic visions and the belief that he was destined to lead a divine mission. Despite being raised Catholic, he converted to the Seventh day Adventist Church in nineteen
seventy seven, adopting their holistic lifestyle. Their principles basically they shunned alcohol, tobacco, and processed foods, which I mean that in itself sounds fantastic, yeah, living, I mean, except the shutting alcohol.
Yeah, I was just like, that sounds fantastic.
The whole food sort of thing, the processed foods, you know, yeah, the good foods and the booze.
It's not necessarily like alcohol is good for you, so.
Yeah, yeah, for sure. But I mean even Jesus partook in some wine, right.
So just saying, yeah, what do they say it's good for your heart?
Yeah.
I feel like one day is going to come back on us and be like no, probably.
But anyways, Roche's time at the Seventh Day Church was short lived due to the desire for leadership and leading to his expulsion from the church. However, he was undeterred. He managed to amass a following, convincing his disciples that he was a savior chosen by God to rescue humanity from the impending evil that was the soon coming apocalypse now.
The cult originally formed in nineteen seventy seven in Saint Marie, Quebec, with the goal to form a commune where people could freely listen to his motivational speeches, live in unity and equality, and be free of sin and in all honesty. It's a very noble belief. I mean, based upon the group, you know, it sounds like that's a good way of living, you know what I mean, I guess, but this idealism wouldn't exactly last for a.
Long Yeah, I'm like, this sounds like shit. Actually, something's gonna go bad.
Well, I mean, okay, what their target is, what they're trying to do. They can live together in a community where they can motivate each other, live in unity with equality, be free of sin. You know, they're getting good ingestion of good foods, whole foods, no alcohol or tobacco like that in itself. That's a good way to live.
Yeah, I mean yeah, if you step back and if it's just that, but we all know it's gonna get dark.
Yeah, if they stuck to that, fantastic. But clearly this is a cult, true crime episode. That's not what happened. They tried, but it didn't last long. So the original followers of Roche initially consisted of four men, nine women, and four children. Each of them were forbidden for maintaining any connection from their families and the Seventh day Adventist church that they originally came from. Okay, so basically citing this as a violation of his cults principles of freedom.
Now they were to stick to themselves and that's about it.
And well I have a question, but I'll wait, I'll wait, go ahead and shoo the question. I was curious that they're there. So they're at this point, they're there on their own free will.
Oh, yes, very much.
So Okay, don't say it. I know you're hesitating. Don't do it.
I'm trying to figure out a way to say it properly without giving anything. Don't give anything away, technically speaking. Throughout this whole time, they are all there on their own free will at all.
Times, technically speaking.
Technically speaking, Okay, okay, that's what I'm going to say. Roche's dread of the impending apoc clips that we had already talked about, would soon begin to intensify over the course of their developing of their group. He was convinced that God had forewarn him of the arrival of the apocalypse in February of nineteen seventy nine, so, utilizing the commune as means of preparation, he relocated himself and his followers in nineteen seventy eight, the year before the apocalypse
was supposedly to happen. Can you guess if it happened or not. I mean, we're twenty twenty three.
So yeah, I guess is that it didn't.
No, it didn't happen, but we'll get to that. They embarked on a hike to the mountain side that he dubbed quote the Eternal Mountain in Saint Joke's Quebec nestled within the remote Gaspy Peninsula, so he fervently believed that this secluded location was where he could find salvation for himself. In the group, there, they would survive the impending end of the world scenario that was to come and that
God foretold him of. So once they made their hike to this location, he picked the spot, and Roche, being the savior the leader, made his commune build their little town on the mountain side while he basically just sat back and relaxed.
Oh wow, okay, yeah, fun.
Of course, he's probably most likely barking orders. Yeah, you know, he's like, I want this made over here, and do this over there.
I mean, it's kind of fun watching people work when you're not working, I guess true.
I mean, I will like, he was actually a skilled woodworker himself, so when they're building these cabins and stuff like that, he knew how to tell people to construct this, which I mean fair enough.
So technically he was just like supervising.
He was he was playing foreman, and I think he really liked to play foreman, let's put it that way. Yeah, Now, his vision and prophecy of the end of the world for the following year, of course, failed, as we had already mentioned, because hey, we're still alive here in twenty twenty three, and his dedicated followers started questioning Rosch's wisdom. But like anyone else who is unsuccess yes fully predicted
the end of the world, he had excuses. He said that time on Earth and in God's world were not parallel and attributed it to the miscalculation, as there is a discrepancy between the Israelite and the Roman Catholic calendars.
Oh wow, okay, that makes my head hurt almost.
Well, yeah, that's what he's trying to do. That's the point.
Wow.
Yes, there's a discrepancy and they're not parallel between these two calendars and the God world and the real world.
Shit.
Okay, So therefore it was a miscalculation basically what he's saying. And I'm sure that was the same sort of reaction he's getting from the followers. Oh okay, mm hmm, well he knows also, it must be.
Yeah, I feel like they're probably be a bit more convincing or like that they were pretty convinced. Okay, yeah, because they already trusted him and believed him.
Well, yeah, I'm sure they were, but they were convinced he knew what he was talking about, because I guarantee you they didn't fucking know what he was talking.
Oh yeah, that's what I'm but it sounded smart and like educated.
Oh so you know, definitely. But I mean, you can really make anything sound smart and educated if you really want.
I guess I know I'm very good at that. But yeah, I.
Mean, for example, you can say, I don't know, we'll pick uh McDonald's, someone Flippenberger's at McDonald's, right, So you if you want to make that sound educated, fancy, sophisticated, you can say you are a nutritionist.
Technician okay, as the job, Yeah.
I'm a nutritional technician or something like that. There you go.
Yeah. Well, honestly, so many titles nowadays are so interesting because like, oh, what do you do for a living? And they say their title and it's like okay, cool, Like you have no idea what the fuck that actually is.
But you just throw fancy words at people and it's like okay, sure they'll just because they don't want to feel dumb. Lots of times they'll go with it. And I think he kind of prayed on that idea and just threw out fancy words and they're like, gotcha. Yeah, you know. So life within the commune, despite that hurdle, did begin to grow and things were increasingly radical, as Roche quote married multiple women and would father well over twenty children within the commune.
Holy shit.
Yeah, all while asserting his godlike authority over them. Hate that, yeah, can't can't blame you for that one.
Uh huh.
The devotees lived in a secluded and precarious existence, deep in the wilderness on this mountain side, with minimal contact with the outside world. They did, however, resort to various means such as selling crafts and engaging in odds and ends jobs, basically just trying to earn money, you know, a little bit of money to keep their little existence, their little culture kind of going right. Yeah. However, financial struggles perpetually plagued the commune, leaving them teetering on the
brink of survival. But they just did their best and kept chugging along.
Well, I mean, look at how many moles they have to feed.
Yeah, right, definitely, there's not a small number of them. They're probably thirty to forty people by now or so so Roche, who is now going by the title of Moses, Oh gosh, possessed a captivating charm, much like many people in his position who are leading cults or are psychopaths. Medically speaking, they generally have quite a charisma about them, and he was no different. And this allowed him to
exert complete control over his followers, dictating basically their every move. Now, if anyone was ever found to be not obeying his words of rule, they would find themselves vulnerable to his various means of punishment.
Oh my gosh, what was this punishments?
Well, minor infractions resulted in physical punishments and beatings, okay, underscoring his absolute authority within the commune. So Roche. In his religion, he had an amalgamation of a lot of primitive ways of punishing, such as like just bullying, sexual sadism, and Old Testament teachings in fact were implemented. So despite the unconventional mix, he had always maintained his position as a supreme leader and messiah, rejecting any notion of equality whatsoever.
So he's basically like, listen to me, you don't you're gonna be punished because I am better than you. I am the Messiah, I am Moses, I know better.
And yeah, that's just terrifying to me because I feel at some point you're probably just feeling like you're just in this. You know, you want to leave or you need to get out of there, but like you're in too deep, you know, Yeah, and that sucks.
Well, let me tell you right now, they aren't in too deep yet. This is they're just dipping their toes in minor right. To give you an example of some of the things that would become Roche began performing surgeries on the sick and injured within the group. Basically he's their doctor. He has zero medical experience or history whatsoever. But it did not stop him. For example, I mean this one is in nineteen eighty one, Roche would perform quote surgery on a two year old little boy named
Samuel Gillery who was experiencing difficulty urinating. So Roche took on the role of this sick doctor and decided he would slice open the child's penis to investigate and correct the issue. What yes, Now, of course, his quote surgery was unsuccessful and very painful for the little boy. It's not that they had anesthetic or anything like that.
Oh my gosh.
Little boy continued to cry. After the so called surgery, Roche instructed one of his devotees, Guy Veer, to mersus mercilessly beat the young boy, presumably in an attempt to stop him from crying, or even in some twisted way of punishing him for crying. Regardless, Guy followed the direction of his Messiah, doing what he was told. Now, tragically,
Samuel succumbed to his beating and injuries. In a desperate attempt to conceal the murder of the young two year old Samuel, Roche and the Commune resorted to setting him on fire and burning his body to try and hide his death.
WHOA, that does not seem like real life.
This is very much so real life. This is what happened.
That is so disturbing. And then I also feel like just listening to that, I mean, I have no idea but that that could have also have been as sudden. Potentially it probably was, Yeah, which is just whoa yep, an added level of just fucked yep.
So after they burned this poor child's body, because Roche blamed Guy for who carried out the beating for his death, Roche decided to punish him seriously. So he castrated him.
Okay, but he was the one that literally ordered him to do.
That, correct, Okay, but he blamed him for it because he killed him, and he's so he castrated him.
He's only been in school, like he left school at thirteen, he said, right, correct, But yet he's like a doctor.
He's he's playing a doctor.
Yeah, yeah, okay. Uh.
Then after castrating guy, he then compelled his followers to fabricate a story claiming that guy had been trampled by a horse, in case any weren't asked.
Like that's how it happened kind of thing.
Yes, okay, Yeah, that doesn't really make sense to me. It's like, oh, I was trampled by a horse, my balls got cut off, all right.
Yeah that doesn't make any sense because you would also have a little bit more damage too, I.
Feel like, yeah, probably just a bit. Yeah. Despite their efforts to conceal the truth on what really happened, law enforcement began to catch wind of the abuse, and police raided the commune. Okay, and they discovered the charred remains of Samuel.
They didn't even like hide that a they didn't even hide this shit.
No, not really, by the sounds of it. So Roche and along with eight others, faced arrest and charges of criminal negligence causing bodily harm. This is where the story should have ended. However, we are far from the end of this story. Wonderful Astonishingly enough, they were all eventually released. Now I couldn't find exactly how long they were in jail, specifically Roche, but following these events, in nineteen eighty four, Roche and his loyal followers relocated to a community near
Burnt River, Ontario. So we are talking only three years after this event. He is out and still leading the group.
Okay, of course he is.
Yeah, So here he continued his tyrannical rule over his commune, with now a total of twenty six children, most of whom were his own. In this remote location, the commune once again built itself a small township comprised of cabins, with you know, Roch sitting back saying hey build this, do that, and some tents and that sort of stuff. And once they were here, they tried to kind of
blend in with the small local townships nearby. So they began producing maple syrup, preserves, bread, smoking fish, and they sold these items just kind of I'm assuming like farmers market style things or trading back and forth whatever they needed to do. Basically just trying to sustain themselves and to maintain a facade of some sort of normalacy despite the horrors that had transpired and the new horrors that were beginning to already unravel.
Okay, so it's almost as they're starting over kind of thing, yes, and trying to just fit in and not bring attention to themselves.
That's exactly what they're doing. Okay, They're like, hey, we're going to go with Province over. We're going to start this thing again, and we're just going to like blend in like no one knows their history and who we are and all this sort of thing and what we did. So yeah, act casual.
You're like little hand gestures there were funny.
Sorry again, we're fine though they were trying to act casual, because trust me, they certainly were. It was here that the whole hard labor that they were putting in on like this mountainside that Roche began to actually compare them to ants working on an ant hill, thus giving birth to the cult nickname ant Hill Kids. Okay, I mean most of the commune at this point is kids. Yeah, like ants and an ant Hill and Hill kids.
Oh they're just yeah, putting kids and everyone will.
Work basically now. Initially, the commune managed to integrate seemingly well within the community, you know, act casule. But Roche began drinking. Alcohol consumption escalated very quickly.
What the shit? I thought that that was a no, no.
It was. But he don't don't forget he's Messiah, he's Moses.
Oh yeah, the rules don't apply to him exactly. Okay.
And so with his drinking and the rules not applying to him, not only did things escalate quickly, but so did the level of violence within the group. Violence began to escalate extremely quickly. His increasing dependency on alcohol became a catalyst for heightened aggression, leading to him to a certain control over his followers through cruel and dehumanizing methods
Worse than before. The followers, weakened both physically and mentally, found themselves basically trapped, unable to break free from their supposed Messiah. Though they were technically free, they really weren't.
Well they kind of this was I mean, they relied on him in this group, right, correct? Yeah, so that's hard, Well it will.
I'm about to explain some stuff here that really shows how they were free, but they weren't. Okay. So Rocha's rules were strict before, but now they evolved into something even worse, making his rules before look rather lenient. Honestly, he would prohibit his followers from speaking to each other without his explicit permission or even having him present. They were not allowed to talk unless he said they were allowed to, so basically he has to be there for it.
He also began to organize quote gladiator tournaments, forcing his followers into a dirt ring to engage in brutal fights for entertainment, Oh.
My gosh, for his entertainment.
He also became increasingly paranoid about what followers were thinking of him, and his violence only escalated as a result. What became began as a physical assault using belts soon evolved into more sinister form, using hammers and the flat side of axes for beatings.
Wow.
Yeah, can you imagine getting struck upside the head with a flat side of an axe?
Well, I mean, like that could actually kill you pretty easily.
Oh you bet, Bud yeah, oh yeah, for sure, yeah yeah, oh oh yeah for sure.
He Yeah.
The atmosphere within the commune, I mean understandably turned increasingly the tile. Uh. It created an environment for fear submission and further pushed Roach's hold over his whole commune. People were just terrified. They didn't know what to do, but all in the same sense, they literally wholeheartedly believed he was the Messiah as well.
Hmmm, that is just like I can only imagine that's just like a complete brain.
It's a literal brainwash. Yeah, is what's going on here? Yeah, So if he ever did suspect that any of his followers were beginning to think of leaving, this is where I'm talking about where they had freedom, right, but they didn't, but they certainly didn't. That's when things would get really serious. For example, some would get binded with rope, and then he would hang them from a ceiling and he would begin to defecate on them while they were hung helplessly.
Oh, that is disgusting.
Others were made to prove they were loyal simply because Roche had a suspicion of their loyalty. They were made to take a sledgehammer to their own hands, their own legs even and rained down on these legs, these bones until they broke to prove to them, to prove to Roche that yes, I'm still loyal. So basically Roche is like, I think you're gonna leave, here's a sledgehammer, break your leg. Improve to me you don't want to run.
That doesn't even make any sense.
Right, I know, because like, I mean, like I get the concept he is saying. He's like, you are wholeheartedly dedicated, prove to me you don't want to run, so break your own legs. However, that is so fucked up. Yeah, are you kidding me?
It doesn't make any sense. And then now he's just gonna have all these injured people.
Yeah, and not only that, if this person did actually want to run, they're either like I have to break my leg or this guy could potentially kill me or do worse to me. Or what if this person didn't even want to run and he just suspected it. Now his person has to break their leg to prove that they are loyal.
Well, because especially too if he has a bit of a drinking problem. I mean, lots of times I feel like you make up things or think things when they're not really happening when you're drinking, right, Yeah, so he's probably paranoid and it wasn't even that way.
Oh, he was getting very paranoid because he was drinking and he's thinking what his followers are thinking of him, and he's yeah, he's just getting out of fucking control. Now. Others were made to sit on top of a hot stove top.
Why.
They were also made to shoot each other in the shoulders.
Oh gosh.
Then they would smear feces in each other's open cuts and wounds.
What.
They were also made to even cut off each other's toes with wire cutters, or even eat their own feces.
Gosh, this is way too much.
All of this was used as a form of punishment and to prove that these individuals were still loyal to the commune and to Roche and we're not intending on running, I'm sorry.
But also like the infections and stuff that must be happening there, like you people have to be severely ill them.
He's clearly trying to get them sick and ill. Rub shit in your open cut.
Gosh, this is too much much.
It's fucked up, It's.
Way too much. This like how does someone even think of those things.
He's a sadist, is what he is. Yeah, he is getting off on the torture of these people. He is a one hundred percent psychopath. I guarantee it.
I am so uncomfortable listening to this and like want to leave so bad. There's mail on the counter. I'm like, oh, maybe it's just start opening the mail.
Do imagine I'm just going to read our credit statement kind.
Of disassociate myself from this.
I mean, honestly, I can't blame you. If you want to disassociate from this is fucked up.
That is just nuts.
Yeah, I mean he really didn't draw the line like anywhere. Basically, it seemed like whatever you could think of to put these people through, I mean, apart from killing them or each other, he would make them do this for his own honestly, his own amusement. Though he said it was to prove loyalty. No, it's his own fucking amusement.
No, that is not proving anything.
No, it's not.
It's proving that he has a serious problem.
Yeah. Now, remember this commune is comprised mostly of children at this point, right, the children of the commune were not exempt from any of these horrors. If they needed to be punished, then so be it. If they needed to prove themselves, then they would need to prove themselves. Sexual assault was also not out of the question either. Again, including the children. Wow, Now, as if things haven't been bad enough, this part gets me the most. The kids,
if they allegedly misbehaved. Now what Roache considered misbehaving, I'm not too sure. I'm pretty sure it could be fucking sneezing in this general vicinity at this point. Yeah, the kids would then be held over top of fires, and at times they would even be stripped completely nude, and then they would be nailed to trees while the rest of the children were instructed to throw rocks at them
and stone them. WHOA, I cannot begin to imagine the absolute terror of enduring that as an adult, let alone as a child.
No, there's no coming back from something like that.
Really, No, fuck the person who put anyone through something like that. Yeah, any of this shit.
It's so hard to listen to stuff like this because it seems like, oh my gosh, like run away, like get away, But I know that it's so much more complicated than that. To get out of these situations.
It really is. Well, I mean there's Stockholm syndrome, for example, there's not only Stockholm syndrome. But you're fully believe that this is your savior. Yeah, you're fully believed that this is a messiah. There is your religion behind this. It's a full belief in that there's not having anywhere to go, not having anyone else to rely on.
Well, I mean too of their kids that they may not even know any different too, This is just the way that the world is. Yeah, in their eyes, it totally could be right.
Yeah, Now imagine being one of the adults in this commune too. Say you are a mother with probably say three or four or five kids in here. The best place you think is in the hands of someone who's going to save your life, your messiah. It'd be the person you can trust your kids with. Yeah, And if you can't, then who else can you trust? Oh? Fuck?
Yeah, this is just I it's very hard to even think about anyone being in a situation like this. It's it's just completely devastating.
And you're out in the middle of the woods too, right, It's not like you can just knock on your neighbor's door.
Yeah, Yeah, well, then you're also fearing for your life, because gosh, if he's capable of these things, what else is he capable of?
Yeah. Now, one particular event, a member of the commune group did the only thing she could to try and keep her child safe from roche. He was in the middle of a particularly violent outburst, so to save her child from potential violence to say, she placed the baby outside so it was out of sight, out of mind.
Okay, okay.
The only problem was it was in the dead of winter and in the midst of a blizzard, the baby would succumb to cold and did freeze.
So seriously, yes, oh my word, that is something I don't even know how to feel about that.
Actually, it's heartbreaking. A mother trying to save her child from danger God inadvertently put it in the path of another danger. Yeah, she did the only thing she.
Could she had she yeah, the ability to do to save this.
Kid, which literally just proves how helpless these people are.
Oh my gosh, this is I don't like this brutal.
So following the tragic death of this infant, an investigation was prompted in nineteen eighty seven, and fourteen children were removed from the commune and placed into foster homes.
Okay, that's something.
Although this intervention could have marked the end of the abuse, it revealed a stark, a stark reality. The Children's Aid primarily focused on rescuing the children rather than seeking any sort of justice whatsoever. So they just were focused on let's get the kids out of there, and that's it.
That's kind of odd though, because you also think if kids have been treated poorly and have been in danger all this time, that there needs to be consequences of that.
Yeah, but there wasn't.
It was just like, get the kids safe, which is good.
That's good, it is good.
But also like, there's another.
Step to this, Yeah, there should be reprimendation.
Yeah.
But consequently the commune persisted because there wasn't recommendation, and so it was now no kids, it was just adults left with two men and eight women, and Roche seemed to once again up the level of abuse and torture within the group with the children taken away.
And also these people, I mean, I'm sure a lot of them, the moms and stuff, are just heartbroken because their kids got taken away from them.
Oh exactly right, Yeah, Now, I mean so you're going through.
You left your entire life, Okay, the church you were at, the people you knew, your family members, everything, You left all of that to follow an individual who you believe was going to save you, and over the course of the last decade, birthed your children, forced you into abuse, to hurt each other, your own children, other people you loved and knew, made it so you couldn't talk to not only people outside the commune that you supposedly knew before,
or sorry that you did know before, but you're not allowed to even talk to people in the commune that you're supposed to know now, and everything, literally everything in your world that you know and rely on, is this sick fuck yeah, that controls every aspect. And now the one thing you did have, the one.
Fucking thing that maybe brought you some joy.
The one warm hug, that kiss, anything from your child that you did have gone because of this fucking piece of shit.
Wow, gosh, I can't believe that more wasn't looked into that it was. I mean, I'm thankful the children got removed, but there there's a little bit more pieces to the puzzle here.
Well, we've been talking recently on a few different episodes on Failed Justice.
System specically, you don't say, and.
I think the last one was Canadian as well. Yeah I'm not mistaken. So yeah, that fucking sucks.
Yeah. Maybe maybe it's not so desirable here, but no, I mean everywhere has issues with this sort of stuff.
Yeah, So with all that taken into account, with everything they've gone through so far, this is where we're going to end the episode.
Today, I was like, I'm like, no, no, there's a bit more to go here, but okay, you're doing it.
This is this is the best place to end it. I did some more research through it. This is where we're gonna stop it from here, Okay, Okay, I mean, yeah, you look pissed.
I am pissed. I'm sure I'm not the only one, because it's just like, I feel like we're just really getting into this and I got questions that need to be answered.
I'm not promising your questions will be answered, cool, but I'm promising to deliver the information as best I can.
Of course, they won't get answered. It's a Ben show, it's a bench.
What the fuck does that mean?
You always do ones that don't answer my questions?
You just have questions I can't answer.
I feel like I mostly pick a case based on if, if it's solved, and if like I can sleep at night knowing you know, well, actually, no, that's not true. I've done some doozies too. Never mind, never mind.
You like your your cannibal cases.
You don't want, but you have done more cannibal I bet you, if we went back and counted, you have done more. No I I if anyone has some spare time out there, I bet you anything that Ben has actually done more cannibal ones than me.
No, okay, you one hundred and ten percent? Are you gonna you want to put something on this? You want to bet this?
I don't know.
I see you're not.
I'm not one hundred percent confident, but I'm like pretty confident.
Well, you're not confident enough to wager.
So yeah, I think you've done more. Maybe I'll make time for this. We'll see.
I'm like ninety nine zero point nine repeater percent sure you have done more cannibal cases than me.
I don't know. I mean I do like a good cannibal case. I don't know what that says about me, but I do.
YEP, I did do one recently with like the like technically he didn't murder the guy really because it was like a you know, the online thing where they met up.
And he's like, yeah, yeah, And I can think of two other ones that you've done too, off the top of my head.
Oh so I've done three total, where you've probably done like thirty.
Probably not, I bet you. Maybe I've done three as well.
No, you've done more than three. I'm pretty sure you've done like three in a row.
I don't know. Yeah, well, I'm going to find another one.
Anyways, this is just a little marital dispute that you will literally find in the description of this podcast. So just just forewarning you, we have written it down that this will happen. But if you want to hear more marital disputes, we will talk to you next time The Wicked and Grim.
Well, yeah, if you also want to hear part.
Two of this, which you do, Yeah, trust me, you're going to want to hear the rest of this. Also, all the links to our socials are down below. You can find our new YouTube videos. The YouTube link is down there. We're posting stuff with our Tiny Home Chickens or our Wicked Life, just things that we're doing you'll be able to find the link down there. We got Patreon, we've got Instagram, Facebook, the whole shebang.
Yeah, we got it all.
Yeah, how do you spell shebang?
Shebang?
That? Well? Thank you for being here, guys. Hopefully you guys enjoyed this one, and we'll see you for part two next week. Until then, stay wicked,