Survival Story - Ryan Waller

An open and shut case, finding the evidence and knowing exactly who did what. In a perfect world, that's just how the justice system should work. However, we don't live in a perfect world. The case against Ryan Waller seemed to be an open and shut case. However, as the hours ticked by and his interrogation began, things started to shift, and soon police would find themselves in a very bizarre situation as they let Ryan walk out the door. Hey, welcome back.

My name's Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and Grim, a.

True crime podcast.

It is a true crime podcast.

That's just facts. I don't have it happening.

What else is new?

What do you mean what else is new that I don't have it?

Know that it's a true crime podcast podcast.

Hello, Well, I mean we're approaching episode ninety, so I would assurely it's known.

Where does the time go? Eh?

Oh man, tell me about it? But I do have whiskey, so that's that's a nice thing.

And it's July.

It is we just had Canada Day long.

Weekend be Canada Day, and then it's going to be.

July fourth for Memorial Day. Our American friends down in the United States dates trying not to blow off your thumb with fireworks on the celebrations, because that is something that occurs pretty much every year.

That that happens to someone.

I mean, yeah, I mean people using fireworks.

So they can be there, like I'm a bit afraid of them. They can be pretty dangerous.

Well. Yeah, people get a little bit overconfident, especially or they're drinking, especially with consumption of alcohol.

Oh that's where you're going.

Yeah, and accidents definitely occur, and it's on the rise every time they're celebrations revolving around fireworks.

So well, I also think people to just think, I don't know, more and more so that they're like invincible. We think we're getting more and more invincible in a sense, that's true. I feel like that. I know, I think I get personally.

But I get more and more invincible, I think the more I drink. So yeah, I can feel that. What are we going to talk about today? Oh, we had one hell of an episode over on Patreon. Yeah, the exclusive episode and Nicole let us through that. You want to give us a little quick rundown on what happened?

Uh, two runs don't make it right? Just kidding. That's a little inside joke. You have to go over there too to get yep. But yeah, we covered the Canadian case on Albert Johnson Walker. So this dude, he stole a lot of money. Mm hmmm, he stole some identities m hm, he murdered someone, h among some other shit. Yeah, so he was a bad mofo. Like he was shady as fuck.

That was one hell of a case.

So it really it was a case that was like a soap opera and there was a lot of twists and turns and you never knew what the heck was going to happen, but it was. It was good. Yeah, I liked it.

If you want to listen to that, you got to head over to Patreon. We drop an exclusive episode the last day of every month for our patron listeners, so you can go one over there, sign up and listen listen to the episode.

Ye yeah, what.

Else you got it?

Oh?

Okay, there, you send me a link today I did. Yeah, guarding a movie.

That is being made apparently, what was it a Life on Lifetime or something?

Yeah, Lifetime is making a movie on the case of Gabby Patito and Brian Laundry. We just talked about an update the other day, and I'm assuming this means all the information is out. We haven't been following the case too closely, but if they're making a movie, they know everything.

So I feel like it's so soon, too soon.

I don't know, I don't know, I don't know.

Hard to say, I feel like it's a bit soon, but I mean it's a year ago or so.

Yeah, it was twenty twenty one, so I'm curious to see it. I think I'm gonna wait until that movie comes out. I'm going to watch that shit out of that and then I'm going to dive into research and then we're going to cover that case fully and do it full justice again. Yeah, because we did it already,

So yeah, yeah, because you cannot always trust the media, Holy heck, no, could it be unreal?

We got it from reliable sources too, it's not their fault either. It was falsified information. So that's what happens when you go a little bit too soon without confirming facts. And we did that. We're not going to do that again.

But the media can also twist things into a certain way too, oh yeah, to sell and you know.

And speaking of media, there was another news article that came out today.

Yeah, you shared this with one with me. This is wild.

So every year there is this crazy cool stampede that happens in a little old town just south of us called Williams Lake.

About three hours or so away, I'd say, yeah, three hours so.

About three hundred klometers away. They have this crazy cool stampede. It is actually quite large for the small town.

Big deal.

Yeah, people travel from all over to go to this stampede. Apparently there was a shooting in behind the stands, so yeah.

Yeah, I can't even imagine that happening there, to be honest.

Yeah, it's nuts. So two people were allegedly injured and are currently in hospital, one is arrested, and they are on the search for another potential shooter. And this happened just today, so yeah, that's kind of crazy.

Yeah, I mean, this is such a small town too. That's just going to just shake everyone for sure, one.

Hundred percent, especially because this was the first time the stampede happened since COVID.

Oh dang, Yeah, that's sad. Things are just kind of slowly opening up again and then shit like that happens.

Yeah, so huh so that's terrible and tragic to hear. I hope those two people make a full recovery and they get both the individuals responsible in the shooting.

Well, yeah, maybe there'll be a bit more details coming out too, because I'd like to know what the heck went on there.

Yeah, we'll find out. Finally, we are I think we mentioned this before that we're going to be tackling some more lesser known cases, not that we are not doing some of the bigger known ones as well.

Oh yeah, because I still have some big ones on my list.

Yeah, oh so do I trust me? And people still want us to cover some of the bigger ones, to hear you our exactly, So those are definitely going to happen too. But you guys seem to really like it when we cover these lesser known cases. And I've found out recently in my endeavors of trying to learn the wonderful world of Reddit that it is a great resource for some of these lesser known cases.

I'm not even a hunter. I'm not very versed on Reddit.

You should be.

I'm not searching what it even is, to be honest. It's it's a forum, okay where people just like it's like a kind.

Of a blog ish yeah thing, go in there and search topics and then people just post on these topics.

I have used read it before for looking at some cases and stuff, but I never just like have gone in there. It's always come up on like a.

Google's yeah, and then you follow that link and you're tea yeah, then yeah, put it into it. Well, thanks to Reddit. That's how I found out about the case today, the case of Ryan Waller and Heather Kwan.

Super cool.

This is a roller coast of a case. So if you don't know this case, buckle your seat belts. If you do know what, you know what's going to happen. So don't tell anyone, Okay.

Okay, just everyone else. Sure that I don't know this case, well, you were going to do a different one originally, right that I did know? Yes, this one, okay, this one I don't know.

Yeah, So this one takes place on Christmas Day of two thousand and six. I was thinking of saving this, yeah Christmas.

But like you should have saved this to Christmas.

It was a hard fond No, I wanted to do this one right away.

Okay.

So it takes place in Desert Hills, Arizona.

Okay.

So Heather Kwan was a twenty one year old college student. She was a kind soul who she had the need to help other people, which was evident by her teen years. She would spend many of her weekends out volunteering for foundations to help underprivileged kids. She even dreamed of helping people in her adult years, which is why she aspired to become a defense lawyer and most likely what she

No kidding.

Now. At the time, she was at a place with her boyfriend Ryan Ryan Waller. She was living there with him, and Ryan was a bit younger than her, and Ryan was eighteen years old, and Ryan was a gun enthusiast. Nothing wrong with that. I'm just going to say that there there are many people who are gun enthusiasts. That does not make you bad person. It's if you miss use yes your power, you will still be responsible at

Okay, so we're backtracking two days.

We are kap because on December twenty third, Heather went to Ryan's or sorry, Heather was at Ryan's place where she lived with him, and she was there. They were enjoying a movie in a pizza knight.

Specifically Nice I want one of those.

But nobody had heard from them since. The two days rolled by to December twenty fifth, Christmas Day, and neither of them showed up for the Christmas Day celebrations. They had planned to visit Ryan's father, Dawn, on Christmas, but they didn't show. He made dinner and was left there waiting.

Oh my goodness, that's not good.

Yeah, So Dawn clearly tried to contact both of them and was unfortunately unable to connect. No one answered either phone. Now, this was very abnormal. It was very uncharacteristic of them to not answer. It was very uncharacteristic of them to not show up or you know, let him know or not be in contact. So he was immediately worked.

Well, especially if you like being that time of year, Christmas, right, you're more so involved in contact with family.

Oh, definitely. You usually have schedules planned, who's bringing them up for dinner or whatever. And if you got multiple families who're stopping off at you know, you're going to be planning that all out too, right.

There's a lot of people you're in contact with around that time. Yeah, not for everyone though, not forever.

Yeah, but generally speaking.

Yeah, generally, I mean it's too much.

Yeah, it is. Honestly, Christmas is Christmas is a good time of year, but it's not my favorite.

It's just too much, you see, my favorite. But it gets a little bit daunting sometimes.

And the consumerism gets me. Consumerism bothers me so much. So anyways, our opinions aside. Dawn ended up calling the police. He was concerned and he wanted them to do a welfare check on Ryan and Heather. Okay, so police arrived at their door and they knocked with no answer. The police also saw someone's car in the driveway. They weren't sure if it was Ryan or Heather's, but there was someone's car in the driveway at least, so potentially someone

Okay. I was like, is she alive? But she That doesn't not really answer the question.

It doesn't. And now being that this is a wellness check, however, sleeping doesn't matter to the police, They're like, well, we're not gonna not wake her up. We need to check and make sure she's okay.

Okay good. I thought they might have just taken that as so.

No, they need to confirm that both people are in fact okay, okay good, especially considering the initial appearance of Ryan and the bruising of his face. Right. So, after some more conversations between Ryan and the police, and some convincing Ryan eventually accepted that they needed to wake up Heather to check on her as well, so he stepped aside and let the police end.

No problem, okay.

Once they approached Heather, however, things took a quick turn for the worse because Heather wasn't sleeping on the couch. She was laying there in her own blood. Heather had suffered a single gunshot wound to the head, and it was clear to the police due to her condition, that this would have occurred a few days ago.

Oh no, okay, that's what I was not hoping was the case.

That is the exact case.

But that so you almost wonder if he was like position that so that oh, just like you can see her feet like she's just sleeping. Meanwhile she's like dead on the couch. Holy heck.

So I'm going to go to the limb here and I'm going to say something. There is a major twist in this case. You're allowed to speculate all you want as I'm talking. Okay, Okay, I am not going to confirm deny or go into conversations with any of it.

So literally, that's just our normal.

Life pretty much. So what you're saying, is you think Ryan could have potentially been positioning her on the coach to try and convince police that she was asleep rather than deceased.

Well potentially, that was my initial thought. Yeah, like that would be because your hope would be open the door and like yeah, I'm good, everything's good, whatever, and then they just leave and don't actually come in to like make sure that Heather is alive. And well, yeah, that's fair. Yeah, could happen potentially some Oh definitely police maybe just okay, yeah, like it's Christmas, like whatever.

Yeah, I see you're sleeping there. Yes, that makes sense. Well, clearly that's not what happened. They clearly went in, they saw her unfortunately passed away, and immediately Ryan was arrested and in police custody. Yeah, but Ryan seemed a little confused. He didn't know why he was being arrested or exactly what was going on.

So he's in shock.

Potentially, Well, he didn't resist and he was put into the backseat of the squad car while more police processed the scene and paramedics attended to Heather.

Oh that's so sad.

Mm hmm. So he was just kind of like, what's going on like why am I arrested? What's happening? So Ryan would sit in the backseat of the car for several hours before police would know how to process this. After all, I mean, they were just performing a routine wellness check, right, and then they knock on the door and they stumble on to basically a murder scene. So eventually Ryan would have ended up at the police station and interrogations regarding the incident would begin with Ryan at

Oh right, I remember saying that, yes, you.

Can watch this whole thing on YouTube. I've watched it about three times now, probably more if you include going back for clips and stuff. So as it begins, Ryan walks into the room dressed in a complete white jumpsuit that clearly the investigators put him into. I'm assuming to take his clothes for evidence, right, okay, and looking very

Okay, I was like, why, okay, that makes sense though.

So once this is going on, the very first thing Ryan says in this interrogation footage is quote, man, I just want to go to sleep, to which the detectives in the room. The detective sorry in the room later responds, if you have a concussion, you don't need to sleep. That's what the doctors will say. So clearly they assume he's got a concussion and they don't want him to sleep, right, which we all know if you have a concussion, you shouldn't be going to.

Yeah, you know, you got to stay awake for sure.

Because that can just cause brain damage or anything like that. So moments later Ryan also did say do I get to go home? Shortly after that, the immediate response from the detective is should go to a doctor? Is where you should go?

It's like he has no idea what's going on at all?

Seems like it.

I told you, I'm not going to take some he has some sort of brain damage already or something. I'm wondering you think, so, well, potentially, he doesn't seem like he quite realizes the situation that he's in at all.

Yeah, why are you just laughing at him?

Because you're just like, yeah, yeah.

Well I can't say anything because that's fair. But anyways, yeah, should go to a doctor's Where you should go is clearly in reference to.

His bad appearance face. Yes.

So eventually the questionings do begin, and it begins with the reading of his rights and some rather basic questioning to open up things like you know his name, age, did he own the house, who lived there? The highest grade he achieved through high school. All of these questions went on only to stir confusion. Ryan mostly answered yes or no questions pretty vaguely, or often answered with I don't.

Know, well some of those already, Like highest grade in high school, I mean I wouldn't remember, but it's like this dude.

Well, no highest grade like graduating like grade twelve?

Oh okay, I see, I see. But he's young too, isn't he he's eighteen.

Yeah, But Ryan wasn't actually able to answer that question either. He didn't know.

He didn't even know if he graduated.

The detective at one point asked, do you have your ged I can't remember his response, but I'm pretty sure he says, I don't know to that exact question, I didn't have that one written down.

Interesting.

The detective was clearly getting visibly frustrated as he asked Ryan these simple questions, and Ryan was getting visibly frustrated as well with the situation. He was fidgeting and kept saying he just wanted to go home or wanted to go to sleep. He was clearly distracted. He was clearly upset. Now.

He would go on.

He would say that Heather was his girlfriend, and then that she was just a friend. He didn't know her last name, and then he said that she was only sixteen or seventeen years old, when she was actually in her twenties. A lot of what he said, again contradicting not making sense. You look very confused right now.

Well, no, I mean I'm not confused. Doesn't all makes sense, but it's just like weird, just weird. Yeah, to be like she's my girlfriend, she's not my girlfriend, not even knowing your age, just like he's maybe living in the past a bit or something. Do you think so potentially potentially I feel like I don't want to say much because I'm gonna be so wrong that something just the opposite of what I'm thinking is gonna happen.

Fair enough, Well, the officer knew much of the information Ryan was giving him wasn't true, but he kept prodding and kept trying to find out any simple information that he could. Eventually, he asked Ryan how he got the bruises on his face, to which Ryan responded, he didn't know which.

It sounded like it was a dozy of a bruise.

You think you'd know, Oh, it's a doozy of a bruise. But then later he would say that Heather actually did it and that it was an accident, something along the lines of while she was helping a friend do her hair, she accidentally hit him with her fist. Now it seemed like the officer was getting somewhere, so he continued to push forward, but the answers again changed, and he repeated, I don't know.

But sorry, what was it? Initially that she was helped or a friend was helping her do her hair, and she.

Had him Heather was helping a friend do her hair, and in that she accidentally hit him in the face.

Okay, which I mean could happen, But would it ended up leaving that kind of a bruise in that situation?

Woos to say? Now, the detective was again getting frustrated, more and more so as time went on, the story was changing. Ryan clearly wasn't speaking the truth, no matter how hard he kept or how hard Ryan the No matter how hard he tried, Ryan kept up the same behaviors. There you go, sorry, stumbled out a little bit. Even the questions the exact question, I should say, what happened last night? Ryan responded with, I don't know.

Meanwhile, your girlfriend is dead on the couch cheek yep.

Now, not knowing what else to do, the detective makes a change in his tactic. He becomes much more aggressive in his approach, I should say, not physically or right. Yeah, And at five point forty two am, he comes right out and says to Ryan, quote, there's a dead girl in your living room. And Ryan, though not very upset or shaken, seemed surprised by this. And right then and there,

Okay.

When he was asked where he was shot, Ryan replied, he was shot in the eye.

In the eye, that's.

What he said. Yeah, he said he was shot in the eye.

Okay, which meanwhile he was just like punched or something in the eye.

Well, I mean, the story doesn't seem to make much sense. How could someone get shot in the freaking eye and be around to sit here in interrogation and tell someone about it? Right? The detective clearly didn't believe him. It seemed like Ryan was trying to put the blame on someone else or some sort of other incident. So this conversation continues and Ryan stays on course with this new story. He says, two men, Richie and his dad, came over

Dang, that's so sad.

Uh So where's your head at on this?

Oh? My head is all over the place. Who the fuck is Richie? For one? I need to know? And I'm wondering, Like my brain goes to, Okay, well did he get hit shot in the eye, but like something was covering his eye and then there was like some sort of an impact from that, like it caused the black eye and like his concussion and everything. But like clearly he wasn't shot actually shot. I'm trying to make sense of it.

You're trying to make sense of it, Okay, Well, keep trying to make sense of it. That's just totally cool.

Yeah, but it's very sad. I mean, Heather probably didn't have a chance, like if he did call someone and not like have her just sleep but sounding like it, she probably didn't have a chance anyway.

Regardless regardless of what happened, Clearly Heather did not have a chance unfortunately. Yes, So at one point in the interrogation, you can actually see the detective's frustration. He like drops his pen on the table and his arms kind of go up, like you can see in that moment he almost fights himself from like literally throwing his hands in the air.

That's fair though, because as.

He throws his hands in the air, he just begins and like puts him behind his head. But oh, you can see the actual frustration as he quite literally throws his hands in the air and catches himself in that moment.

See, I think that being a detective would be an awesome kind of like well, I don't know if I should say awesome, a very interesting job. But then like interrogating and that sort of thing would just like I just don't know if I could do it, I think I would be like, this is shit.

Some of the tactics involved in interrogation is incredible.

Well, and you're in there for hours on edge.

Well that's part of it too. They're trying to.

Wear you down exactly. But your mind is probably always going like how can I get this information out? And I feel like it'd be very stressful job. The ent well, I mean all of it.

Really one of the tactics that I do know what they use, and it's actually used. I learned this one actually with another podcast I was on, is when you're having a conversation with an individual and you want more information, you just let them talk. You just you don't say anything, right, you just silence, let them talk and they'll keep talking. So these these detectives and interrogation they will sit very close to you and make you very uncomfortable in your

That's a tactic and a lot of things. Even when I was in a position of fundraising and stuff, lots of times safe you like asked for a certain gift or something right, and like lots of people they get like they'll go in their head like oh my gosh, I shouldn't asked that or whatever, and then they'll just like start yapping and like screw it up. But like if you're just like quiet, right and just like let the other person speak and stuff like, things can happen.

It is. But no matter how quiet this detective was, it wasn't working.

He just would say nothing.

Basically Ryan was wanting to go to sleep.

Oh yeah. He would be like, can you shut up so I can just have an aup?

Pretty much he would at times even put his head down on the table.

Oh my goodness.

So the detective was quite literally at his wits end, and he finally decided to entertain this story of these two men coming in through bad and someone yeah, Richie and his dad coming from the back and shooting Ryan and Heather.

Can I clarify Richie and Richie's dad.

Correct, Yes, Richie and Richie's dad.

Okay.

Yeah, so Richie and.

Just making sure it wasn't like his dad.

Richie and Ryan's dad. No, Richie and Richie's dad.

Okay.

So the detective is starting to entertain this idea, and you can you can see a shift in the whole attitude d of this detective. He begins to think, okay, what if Ryan was shot? What if Ryan was shot in the face? What if something did happen? So the detective decided he was going to get Ryan to leaning closer and he was going to take a look at his face. And to his surprise, the detective could see a bullet hole.

What yes, in his face?

In his face?

Okay, I was one hundred and ten percent not thinking that there was actually going to be a bullet hole.

Yep. Where I'll get into the details of where here in a little bit.

That's crazy, yep.

So he called the fire marshal and uncuffed Ryan as they waited.

Well, yeah, he needs medical assistance for sure.

Yes, Soon the fire marshal arrived. They begin assessing him with things like a blood pressure, and they arrived before the ambulance did, so they were doing this in the meantime and soon they took to the hospital in the ambulance when it arrived. As it turned out, Ryan was telling thee hundred percent truth.

That he was actually shot.

He was shot in the eye. Well, I mean, he was telling the truth as best he could. The man had been shot in the face with a twenty two caliber bullet and he had suffered a horrific head injury. So of course his memory is going to be foggy. Of course his decision making wasn't very good.

Well, the fact that he's even alive is insane.

Oh yeah, right, yeah, he's lucky enough that he survived and he was able to remember who shot him.

On top of it, how on earth did he survive?

Well, As it turns out, this is how the story unfolds, and I will answer that question here.

Okay, thank you.

So on December twenty third, Richie Carver twenty three years old and his father, Larry Carver fifty four years old, entered their home. Richie had been a roommate of the couple about a month prior to the incident, and apparently Ryan got in a bit of a confrontation with Richie and kicked him out of the house after Richie began hitting on his girlfriend Heather.

Okay, that seems fair.

Yeah, So Richie in turn decided he was going to plot some revenge and came back to the house gun in hand, with his dad tagging along with him. On that night, Richie and Larry tried to enter through the back glass sliding door of their place, but Ryan saw them through the glass trying to enter, and he tried

Wow, this guy meant business.

He shot Ryan two times point blank in the face, but due to the extreme angle, Ryan thankfully didn't take direct.

Hits, but Heather did.

We'll get to Heather in a moment. The first bullet went through the right side of his nose and exited on the left side, directly under his eye. It deflected against his bones and went back underneath his eye, lodging itself into his brain along with multiple skull fragments.

Oh shit.

The second shot hit just above his left eye and grazed him enough that it just deflected off his skull while still breaking off a bone fragment.

That is lucky.

Yes, these injuries left a total of four bullet holes on his face.

Wow, I can't believe how lucky that is. I mean, grant, he still does have a bullet in his brain.

Yes, from these shots, Ryan was knocked unconscious and dropped to the ground, and the two men were free to enter the home. Now the men were only there for Ryan. However, Heather was now a witness, so Richie stepped over Ryan as he presumed he was now dead, and proceeded to walk into the living room to find Heather cowering on the couch. Richie didn't hesitate. He walked right up to her, pointed the gun in her face, and pulled the trigger, then left brutal.

Yeah, who the fuck is this? Like just a roommate, Like, I'm sorry about what kind of argument could I mean, you already said, but it's like that is not.

A reason that some ridiculous pride factor in getting kicked out or something to do with I don't know, maybe he couldn't get Heather and Ryan had her or something. I don't know. All I know is this Richie guy douche canoe.

Oh totally, and the fact that his dad is just there with with doing all of this, instead of being like, actually that's a terrible idea and like we're not gonna go and shoot your ex roommate in his girlfriend.

Yeah, Instead he's like, oh, you want to go shoot some people up for an argument your son, Wow, Yeah, that's great parenting.

Yeah, that's crazy.

Yeah. So after they left. It's not known how long it was before Ryan woke up, but for the next two days Ryan would have been left with massive pain in his head and a complete fog over his memory. He would have assumed Heather was sleeping on the couch and didn't want to disturb her, and most likely forgot

Hey, that's actually really sad, hey, isn't it. You're just like wandering around your home aimlessly and like just think your girlfriend's sleeping.

Yep. Oh my gosh, that's his state for two entire days.

Gosh. It almost just takes me there like fly on the wall watching that, Like that's I.

Couldn't imagine a being in those shoes though. What he was going through, what he was suffering, what he was feeling alone, incredibly painful. I'm sure what he was thinking, Oh my god, I can't even imagine what was going through someone's head like that, Like, what would does person's thought be with a bullet lodged in your brain for two days?

Well, the fact that he even survived and stuff and was probably sleeping and stuff, and was like, it's almost amazing that he didn't.

Just Oh, it's miraculous, you know, Yeah, it's incredibly miraculous as far as I'm.

Concerned, survived two days of that, Yeah.

With a bullet and skull fragments lodged in your brain.

Oh my gosh.

So for this reason alone, Ryan Waller is our badass of the day.

Pretty amazing to survive. That's like a survival story right there and a half.

Oh is it ever? Where am I here? Okay? Yeah? So Richie and Larry Carver were later identified and arrested in or sorry, We're arrested, and in two thousand and eight, both men were convicted of felony murder, burglary because after they did shoot them, they did steal some things.

From the hall oh my gosh, of course.

Aggravated assault and misconduct involving weapons. Richie Carver was sentenced to a term of natural life However, Richie's father a little bit of a different story.

Okay, I thought you were going to say that Richie was like out or something.

No, the case against Larry was based mostly on confessions he made to his wife, and after she invoked her marital privilege right and refused to testify against her husband in court, the case against him was all but dismissed.

The dad.

Yes, what so he got away scott free.

Wow, I don't get that.

There. I'm assuming Richie was not saying anything, not throwing his dad into the basically, yeah, so could have been just like no, it was just me blah blah blahlah blah. And there's nothing else you could say or do to prove that the dad was there except for the confessions he made to his wife, which the whole marital privileged thing.

Well, what about and they can they not take the what's his name again, Richie or Larry? No, Heather's boyfriend Ryan Ryan? Can they not take Ryan's word at all? Or because like he was having some I don't know, a lot going on in his mind there, they couldn't.

Maybe, I don't know. There's not a lot of information on this case. After the interrogation has taken place, yes, and there's probably a reason for that. But I'll touch on it here in a second.

Oh does it just keep getting worse and worse here.

We'll touch on this. Don't worry about it. But yeah, So Richie Carver is serving a natural life sentence.

Toby never gets out basically.

Pretty much, okay, ye, while his father is walking the streets, hopefully.

Not murdering any other people.

Yep. Now, as for Ryan, he was held in police custody for over six hours without any medical treatment, not even assessment that six hours that could be causing or continuing to cause irreversible brain damage and hemorrhaging.

Yes, but he'd already spent two days, that's true.

That's true, And he.

Would have spent longer if there wasn't for this wellness check. But okay, that's true.

But eventually, when they finally realized that they had made a mistake and found the bullet holes in his face, he was rushed to the hospital where he was where he underwent immediate emergency surgery. Ryan thankfully survived the injury and the surgery, but he didn't come out of the surgery the same. To save him, they had to remove a portion of his brain and at least one of his eyes. Some sources say both, and others say only one. Part of the reason for this is again because there's

Okay, but can I just say something really quick. You're like staring at someone for like six hours? Okay, okay, would you like literally not notice that they had bullet holes in their face? What were they looking at exactly?

The bullet holes weren't super obvious bullet holes. They looked more like cuts and gashes. Apparently, even in the interrogation, the detective at one point asks him about how he got the gash or the cut on his nose, So he identifies the exit wound from one of the bullets as a cut. That's what it apparently looked like.

But then just thinking about this too, this just popped in my head, like murder or not. I mean, he was in rough shape. They maybe should have had him looked at before he was brought and we're questioning.

Hey, well, in that interrogation, you hear him say you should go to a hospital, and you also hear him say you shouldn't sleep because you most likely have a concussion. Yet they're still not treating him.

Yet, We're still gonna sit you here and ask you a million questions exactly.

That's the problem.

Yeah, that's not great.

Put it this way. If you have an assailant stab someone, but they end up getting stabbed too, you still need to treat both individuals. Yes, So why didn't they treat him even though they know he has a concussion and they know he needs medical attention.

Well, like even just thinking about the fact that he wasn't making any sense and all that jazz, like you think, okay, because even when you were going through it at first, it's like okay, like maybe they should just stop here, Like something's not not quite right.

And when you watch that interrogation footage, it's almost immediate that you can tell something's not right.

Okay, that's really sad.

He's like putting his head down on the table. He's moaning, he's very uncomfortable, very disoriented. He looks like he's been awake for the last week, like he is in rough shape.

Oh my gosh. So if I watched some of this. It's probably gonna just like destroy my heart a little.

Yes, it's extremely obvious he needed medical attention.

Dang.

However, he was held in custody for six hours before he received it. I'm not saying that he didn't need to be questioned. I'm not saying it's not right that he was a suspect. I'm just saying they still need to get medical attention.

Yeah, Nope, that's totally fair. But I also feel like, okay, that's six hours. It's six hours too long. But then, grant you, he was like two days just alone. So I mean there was a lot of damage. I haven't mentioned that earlier could have been done at that point.

Yes, I'm not certain that six hours would make a difference in the end to save whatever portion of brain, or save his sight, or even save him from the seizure.

But he still was not being treated like a human being. Yes, that needed help.

He needed medical attention and it was not being provided.

Yeah. No, that's not right.

Yeah, so that is a wild case. That is the case of Ryan Weller and Heather Kwan. Yeah, that one I found on Reddit. It was under the subtext of cases that you that you've heard with crazy twists and turns or something like that.

So well, that's just like a pile of shit. Really, that was a pile of shit. Wow, Okay, Like I mean, you did it well, but it's just like that's just sad. And I mean he got ten years, I guess, but it's like that's sad that he died in the end. And I wonder exactly how how those ten years of his life were he probably, like I mean, he had the sight and stuff, but I mean also a lot of trauma. I'm sure.

Well, those ten years of his life. Last ten years, he did have to move back in with his parents because he was not able to completely look after himself. He was no longer dependent. He needed someone to assist for assisted living. Yeah, dang, So yeah that's the.

Case, and Richie's dad is just living his best life probably yep. Well who knows. But yeah, don't love that.

No, I don't love a lot of stuff about this case. But that's how it went down.

Okay, Well that's interesting. I'm curious if like many people have heard this.

Yeah, let us know if you've heard of this case before. Like I say, we're trying to find some more lesser known cases for you. You guys seem to be enjoying it, but don't count out those big ones, because we're gonna be doing those two. If you want to hear more, of course, you can listen to the rest of our episodes if you haven't already. You can find us on Patreon, where you can get exclusive episodes and some more behind the scenes content. You can also find us on Instagram, Facebook.

Merch we got We've just got it all. What do we not have?

Right? And for the record, the merch is drawn.

All by oh my gosh. Yeah, and hey, I'm like representing the merch right now.

You're wearing it.

I live in the shirt and you look good.

Well. Thank you for being here and thank you for listening. We do truly appreciate it. If you're still listening this far, you're here to the very bitter end.

You're a true rock star.

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Oh yeah, it totally helps. It means so much, but us honestly, well done, Ben, thank you, Case, thank you, and until next time, stay wicked.