Shell Lake Massacre, Part 1

O, Hey, what's up.

My name is Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and Grim.

A true crime podcast morning. The following podcast contains content and material intended for a mature audience listener discretion.

Welcome, Hello, gohen, what's up?

It feels a little different this time.

It feels different. We have like some serious cool shit going on.

We're like we probably like, I don't know what was it. We're probably at I'm seeing stumbling words. I don't even know what to say. Oh my god, like eighty ish to ninety ish listeners as of last episode, and as of releasing this one, we're at almost six hundred of you guys.

Yeah, it actually feels like a little bit. I'm almost a little nervous.

Which is I mean, it's weird. I don't know what to say. I don't know how to act. I'm just like, you know, like buttoning up my shirt, making sure proper for everybody. Okay, I don't know, probably not, but we'll give your best.

We also probably had like twenty five hundred listens I think, right.

Yeah, we just hit twenty five hundred downloads, listens plays, whatever you want to say on the last episode.

And and drum roll, please.

Can I do a drum rollogoo?

What are we at now?

Ten thousand, ten thousand, two hundred and six, to be exact.

That's freaking wild, It's crazy.

You guys have blown us out of the water this week. Thank you so much for your support, and welcome to everyone else who's tuning in. We appreciate you guys. We've got messages comments of people actually binge listening listening days, which makes me like terrified because I can't imagine I should go back and listen to our first episodes.

Oh you were going to?

I haven't yet, but I can't imagine how we've changed since then.

Already, Yeah, probably.

Remember those episodes where we had like bloopers left in by accident.

There's only been a one, isn't there?

I think there's like two, isn't there? And there was just one either way. All the new people went back and just hurt us, like mess up royally.

So yeah, oh okay there because there was my my complete shit shows.

Fire all the episode five.

In the Donals. I apologized about that. Oh that was just a rocky road, a rocky road. Yeah, but no, but honestly, they're binging. People are binging like seventeen episodes in two days, which I was like, or even twenty four hours.

I was like, yeah there was.

People said you did it in one day, like good work, Yes, like you deserve a medal pat on the.

Back at least cheers to you, guys.

Yeah. Our dog just loudly sighed she's tired.

Of our shit. Yeah, she's like, you guys don't deserve them.

Okay. And the other super cool thing, Ben, what are you drinking?

I am drinking some juice from Cold Juicery.

So we have a discount code to share we do, which is super awesome.

Before we get into the discount code though, for anyone who's local, you know, Cold Juicery they make some pretty dope juice.

So local as in Northern BC. Yes, yes, that's where we're located in Prince George, BC. So Cold Juicery is up at the Northern Sports Center, so like the UNBC gym. Yeah, and you can just go in there to their juicery. You don't have to be like part of the gym or anything. And they have an awesome shop. And I am legitimately obsessed with Cold Juicery. So the fact that we I'm probably going to be the main one using the fucking discount code.

Probably that's the only reason we became affiliates with Cold Juicery is because it's a company that we are already.

Like, I think is dope.

Yeah, they're cool. We're totally down with supporting them and having that little back and forth with them. So if you order online, you can use Wicked fifteen and get a discount from ordering their juices. Yeah, but again, it is a local court.

The month of June.

Make sure you're Northern BC. Yes, for the month of June.

For the month of June, I'm just gonna say we're drinking the Bold juice, which is actually one of my faves. Apparently Ben is really enjoying it.

I kind of want to turn it into like a well, I'm.

Surprised that you haven't done that shit yet, orange carrot, apple and lime. So it's like super good. We're boosting our fucking immune systems.

Right now, we're being healthy.

We all need that shit right now, the healthy choice.

It's not bread in a bottle, it's not beer, it's not whiskey.

Look at you. Yeah, you're like going up a class here.

With this I am sophisticated. I don't know if you noticed when I drank this juice, I had my pinky.

In the air, you did. Yeah, So anyway, we'll put a post up about it too. It's Wicked fifteen for the month of June.

Yeah, go hit them up, go support them. They're a great business. Okay, you ready for this?

I am so ready because okay, this is like one of the requests. We have probably gotten the most to do this case.

Yes, it is. And my mic is like sagging here, so I'm sorry, kind adjust a bit. I got a like actually I have a saggy mic. There's a pill for that.

Oh god it I couldn't. I could not let that go. So anyway, we have a on our like highlights in our stories, a place where you can request cases that you think we would cover really well or just sweet cases, And this one like came up constantly, yes, and we're doing it so yeah.

Well, and I just want to give you guys that heads up. Like usually we like to tell the story from the perspective of the victims, like as much as possible we can, you know, because we don't want to help promote serial killers.

And their ass whole life or an exactly.

But the scenario is a little bit different. It's going to be from the other side of things. It is going to be from the killer's perspective. This is the case of Canada's worst random massacre in history. So we're going to look at the events leading up and what took place and like, what's in the account through his eyes?

The worst?

Did you say it is the most worst random massacre?

Random?

Yes, this is the story of the Shell Lake massacre. Okay, I don't know if you guys are ready for this, but I don't know. This is a tough one. So take our warning at the beginning of this podcast, very very seriously. Yeah, you consider yourself warned.

Okay, you just got really serious. Now, I'm like, do I want to be.

Well, it's I mean, of course it is a murder case, the massacre, but there is one specific spot in this where it gets a little extra heavy.

Okay, let's do it.

So the story begins in a small village called Leask I think that's how you say it, l e A s K. It's just north of Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, and it takes place in nineteen forty six.

Oh wow, Okay, I didn't realize this was quite that old.

Oh yeah, it's a while ago. It's a while ago, but it's in the nineteen hundreds at least, so it's not too long ago.

That's pretty long ago.

Well, I mean we were born like what forty two years after this guy.

Was born, which is a long time.

So anyways, it starts in nineteen forty six with a young boy named Victor Ernest Hoffman. He grew up in an ordinary family of devout Lutheran Christians. Like other farmers in the district, the Hoffman's practice mixed farming, which is a practice of both growing hay and raising cattle. It's kind of back and forth, right, Okay, there's a lot of that around here too. Right.

Yeah, I didn't know there was like a name to it.

Well, now you know, you've done did learn something today. So they would follow the seasons, you know, the routine of the season, hanging in certain seasons and moving the cattle and all that sort of stuff. And it included the occasional holiday, just like anyone who works in nine to five, but it would usually revolve around the farm schedule. Right. They worked pretty hard and when the farm allowed then maybe they would take a little holiday if possible.

Farming is like a really tough lifestyle.

It is. You gotta be you got to be a hard worker and you got to be tough.

Yeah.

So now, of course, being religious, they also had Sundays which was the Lord's Day and was primarily used for church and worship. So it's your pretty standard family, especially for in the nineteen forties, you know, Northern Canadian farming family going to church, raising some kids, doing that whole

Was it was a small town.

Yeah, it was considered a village, so it's pretty small. I'm not too sure what a village consists of. I think a village is like under four hundred people or something like that.

That's pretty small.

So according to Victor's parents, everyone in the area were civil and friends. And there's a quote here actually from the father. We live in a nice district and the people are very nice. We are well known here.

Everyone just fucking nice.

Everyone knows each other and everyone's just fucking nice. According to Nicole, it's a very tight knit community. Let's put it that way.

There you go.

So to his parents, Victor was an excellent farmer, hard worker, and a responsible person. He didn't seem very different from and the other kids around his age. He seemed healthy. He was a bit quiet and shy, but he was able to amuse and entertain himself easily, just like any other kid going outside to play sort of thing. Right. He did have one close friend, but he mostly kept

I never had that.

I skipped school I think twice. Once was to go the new system system of a down came.

Remember I knew you then.

And the other time was I wanted to go to the dollar store. I don't think you are goodie too, shoes.

You're welcome to my parents. Really, I was amazing.

We're both pretty good kids.

Actually our parents. I feel like we're pretty lucky them. Not like that, like we had the same parents. We do not have the same parents.

My parents and your parents are lucky.

There you go.

You're welcome, mom and dad. Anyways, moving on from that awkward conversation thing.

Oh gosh, that was good.

So he began missing in school a little bit, and the principal questioned why Victor wasn't coming to school when the odd time when he was missing it. His parents and principal talked, and the principal said, Victor is is no trouble. He's very good in school, or he behaves good in school at least okay, and he had no trouble and he would have no trouble going right up to grade twelve and graduating high school.

Nice.

But Victor didn't really progress like the principal had expected or his parents had expected. Around grade nine something went wrong and another. There's a lot of quotes through this, just so you.

Know, I love that though.

So here's a quote from his father. His father said, as far as being smart, he was just as smart as the rest of the boys. He used to work here and fix bicycles for the neighbor boys. In what they couldn't fix, he could.

Wow, that's actually like a compliment and a half.

It is. So he's he's he's got his head on straight. He's he's a smart kid, and he he can work with his hands. He's a hard worker. He's he's knowing what he's doing. He's very what's the word I'm looking for, competent.

Yeah.

So Victor continued to work in the farm and was extremely good at whatever work he would do, and so much so that he would even work on other farms occasionally.

Oh okay, he got recruited.

He did. He had a knack for figuring out a lot of issues on farms, like how to plant the seeds properly or hay the fields in a certain way, because it's like you got lots of ruts or wet spots and all this sort of thing, So figuring out the lay of the land sort of thing. He had no problem overcoming any obstacles out in the field like that, whereas a lot of people had issues problem solving.

I've gone by farms and stuff, it's always really impressive, like you see little patches of like where it's probably too wet, and I'm like, oh, man, like they just know they're feeling so well, that's impressive.

And Victor had no problem reading the field like that and was able to figure it out no problem. So he knew what he was doing when it came to the field work. Little did his parents know, though, Victor was struggling. And maybe it was because he was able to hide it well. Or maybe it was because his parents were distracted with the farm, or maybe it was because they had six other kids taking up their time as well.

That was wrong.

Well, either way, Victor, Victor was suffering alone. Let's put it that way.

Mental health, we'll get into it.

Okay, we'll definitely get into it. Jumping ahead a little bit. According to medical reports, Victor had actually been suffering here it is from schizophrenic schizophrenia most of his life.

Okay.

Victor recounted an event from his childhood that here you ready for this, that he saw the devil when he was just six years old.

Oh boy, holy shit.

Can you imagine being six years old face to face with a devil? Oh my parts, Nope, I'm out, I'm sorry. And then on top of it, hiding.

That from your parting that for that long and stuff. Yeah no, thanks, Well, yeah, like you probably wouldn't feel comfortable saying that, knowing that they were like religious and stuff.

Right, Well, I would think, I like, from my perspective, and I mean, I'm not schizophrenic by any idea or anything. Maybe I am, I don't know, maybe you're a figment of my imagination. Shit. Anyways, from my perspective, I would think that like going to my parents or the church or praying or something might be able to help me from the devil.

Yeah, to tell your parents might be helpful. It's actually surprising at that age that he could hide it from them. I remember I would probably like kindergarten grade one, and I like prank called someone and I didn't last like a fuck an hour before I had to tell them, and I was freaking out.

The guilt got to you.

But I was just like bawling, Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry.

So I wouldn't you have to tell us what the prank call involved. I've never heard the story before.

Oh it was nothing like I literally just the phone and dialed numbers and then someone was like hello, hello, and then I hung up.

That's it.

That's not even a prank call. But then I was like, oh my god, I'm a terrible person. Wow. That is yeah, Laine, underwhelming, it's very lame. But I couldn't even hold that in.

Wow.

So there you go. I wouldn't be able to hold in that I saw the devil.

Yeah, no kidding. Anyways, let's get back to the story a bit here. I'm going to tell you what the devil actually looked like. Oh, I want to know the creature stood. I'm going to refer to his creature devil back and forth a little bit, depending on how I wrote this. I'm sorry, that's fine. I was tired when I wrote it, so that's fine. The creature or devil stood about six feet tall. He was black as night with a long tail. But this encounter wouldn't be the

Oh wow.

Yeah for a little six year old boy, and as he's grown up to feel this sort of.

Shit, well yeah, that's like traumatizing.

Rely Oh, it's brutal. Sometimes he would even hear tapping sounds and would wake up at night to a drumming sound that would get faster and faster.

And that's the devil.

Well, I would most likely think so. Either that or it's just some noisy neighbor with a drum.

Set like you. You don't have a drum set, but you can be a noisy well, not even a neighbor to live with you. You're noisy.

Thank you. I love you too. Wow, I loved you too. Appreciate it. So, when he was about ten, he began having strange experiences and daily impulses to quote unquote kill at ten at ten years old, okay, he would have impulses to kill strangers, oh, my neighbors and even friends when he would meet them.

Holy shit, I that's so little. Yeah, you should be like making my pies.

And stuff making.

That's very specific, not like being visualized and killing people.

I'm pretty sure ten year olds these days are playing fortnight and.

Texting and sit well, ten year old back then wouldn't be doing that.

Yeah, no kidding. So, like I said, through all this, he never told his parents about it, not once. He didn't discuss any of his problems, and as far as anyone knew he had, he was a normal child. He had a normal childhood, and he was maybe just a little bit shy.

I can't believe he could hold that shit in.

Okay, I can't hold in a fart, let alone anything like that.

Oh well, maybe he was better at holden in his farts. Maybe maybe, or no, he probably was worse at it. I mean, because he was so good.

At this, oh one of the other who knows. Anyways, he's a better man than I am. That's all I know. So throughout all his impulses to kill, he never acted towards them.

Well, at ten, I doubt he could even do it. But okay, well, I.

Mean you never know. I mean, give a kid a gun, you never know what's going to happen, right, especially a farm kid. Right.

Well, yeah, he sounds smart and tough and stuff.

Yeah, but what he did do is he did direct his impulses against animals.

Shit, I should have saw that coming. I have a problem with that.

Yeah you do.

So my reaction was more intense.

Book.

Oh lord, I don't know if I want to hear any of that.

But okay, once he caught a cat in a trap, and he threw the trap and the cat inside a smokehouse. Nice, and he left it there for three weeks.

Oh god.

Okay, but he did take it out and let it go because he did feel bad.

What is a smokehouse? Okay, I thought that he was like smoking it.

No, he didn't smoke. He just an inactive smokehouse.

A smokehouse, so he's just like holding a captive.

For three Yeah, he starved it, Oh my god, in a cage for three weeks. A smokehouse though, basically, picture like a little shed with like racks in it. You can light a little fire inside and like smoke salmon.

Or something.

No, he didn't smoke the cat, but he did put it in there without an active fire, So he did feel bad for the cat, and he did let it go. Even though he did let this one go though, because he felt bad for the extended torture of the animal, he did continue to kill. He would club cats, he would stomp on them, hurt them in other ways. He killed dogs, several hundred squirrels, and enjoyed hunting wild game. Killing animals just straight up made him happy.

Wow.

I just want to address the hunting thing real quick, because I do know hunting is like a controversial topic for some people. I'm a hunter, I do hunt. I have pulled the trigger on animals. I'm going to say that right now. I do not enjoy killing animals.

Well, and it's done in the most humane way possible. Yes, And I'm feeling like he probably well, I don't think he did it that way.

Well, he may have done it in the most human way possible. But when you talk to most hunters, and I have had this conversation with hunters in the past, if you talk to a hunter, ninety nine point nine percent of the times, they're a decent human being. They enjoy going out hiking, they enjoy going out camping, they enjoy tracking the animal, calling the animal, the thrill of hunting,

Oh okay, I don't remember.

It's it's it's not fun.

Yeah. So but then okay, but honestly, going to the grocery store and stuff, like those animals still like died right for you to be able to like eat them and like nourish your body and stuff.

So it's like, yeah, it's hunting is more like a as far as hunter's perspective. Yeah, it's a more sustainable way of filling your freezer and a more humane way of it.

And it's organic as shit because lord knows what.

Yes, and like one animal can feed a family for a whole year, yeah, rather than multiple animals dying for a certain parts. Anyways, that's a whole other conversation.

Okay, So the hunting, okay, maybe that's fine, but the killing of the cats and the friggin dogs. Uh uh.

Well, my point is not that the hunting's fine. It's hunt Like he enjoys killing the animals, so that's why he hunts.

That's not tool Okay, that's not cool.

Like he enjoys pulling the trigger.

He enjoys t He's like satisfied by doing that.

Yeah, that's that's not a hunter.

Okay, I seehere, Okay, I see where we're going with this.

So finally, after five minute conversation.

Sorry, everyone was along for that ride.

Once he did actually beat up a younger boy and he kept beating him like the fight's over, and he kept punching, cap kicking sort of thing, and Victor actually threatened the boy and told him not to tell anyone, and the boy being fearful of the situation, and Victor obliged. He didn't tell anyone about it.

Well, like what he went to his parents? And what the hell did he say happened to him?

I don't know. I ran into a door.

So interesting.

So one day, while having breakfast, Victor began to hear voices. He heard the devil calling to him, so he followed the voice, and he followed it out and to that he saw a figure standing before him that was about six foot six tall six foot sixty inches tall, sorry, that weighed about three hundred pounds and looked like a pig, and it had no clothes on. Is that the devil, I would assume. So he's described the devil a little bit differently a few times, but this is a very

Oh goodness, he.

Didn't become rich, of course, maybe because the devil wasn't real or but Victor thought it was because he refused to actually fully bow to the devil. Since then, he saw the devil about a total of twenty times. One time, the devil even helped them pick berries.

Actually, oh my gosh, that's so random.

But the devil wasn't very good at it. I guess I.

Wouldn't be very good at picking berry either.

No, you wouldn't, oh, not picking. I thought you said you wouldn't want to pick. I thought you were going different way with that. I thought you're gonna say you didn't want to pick berries with the devil. That's gonna be like what it's a nice Sunday afternoon.

No, first, I'm not going to at picking berries, and I wouldn't want to pick them the devil.

Could you imagine though, just like off in the field picking berries with the devil? Okay, what berries do you picture picking when you think of that. I don't know why, but I just thought blueberries. All of a sudden, I was like blueberries, just picking blueberries with the devil.

I think it went like strawberries. That's like really random and weird. It is, anyways, not a memory as a child.

Well, if that's not unsettling enough, though, He also saw disembodied cold hands several times. They were floating and they would then feel and touch him on his neck and body. So just floating hands that would just grope him basically cool. I didn't say anything about sexually, but it would like grope him.

That's awesome.

And not much can beat that. Oh gosh wow. Okay, anyways, Shortly after he saw the devil, when he was young, Victor also began to see what he would call angels. They looked like human beings and they were mostly dressed like women. One angel tried to actually protect him one day and told him many times that he needed to stop killing these animals, but then the devil attacked her, and oh, yeah, it's kind of fucked up and claim and he claims that he suddenly found himself standing there

Hands, which is random.

Yeah, I did, Okay, let's move on.

He would somehow probably described that sword somewhere.

Well, if there even was one, okay, but whatever it was, if there was anything in his hands or not. He succumbed to the urge to attack another angel that was beside him.

Oh he's attacking the angel.

The angel he for whatever urge he had. He didn't want to, but that's the urge he had. Yeah. Occasionally, God and angels would tell him that he could not make plans because only God can do this for him. So we're dealing like these are the sort of things that's going through a young man's mind, like starting at the age of six, and he's bill in school at this point, like this.

Is He's like, it doesn't have any outlet, outlet to be talking about this ship to anyone.

With and like right around now he's he's about the age of fifteen, and he's also like, we're just getting into this, but he's also obsessed with guns. He's getting into guns now.

It's perfect combination.

So it's it's deep, it's dark, and it's it's.

So messy because back then too, like I don't know, I feel like mental health or mountain illnesses is like more of a thing that's like you could openly be about now, yeah, and back then it's probably like even harder. Right, oh, definitely, like not like almost frowned upon or whatever.

I'm sure it was your.

Shit together or whatever. So it's come a long way, thankfully, thankfully, thankfully for sure.

Holy So, like I said, Victor was obsessed with guns at this age, and he actually broke into a local store and stole several guns and ammunitions.

Oh boy.

He was never actually caught, though he got away with it, but his obsession got the better of him because at the age of seventeen, he broke into that same story again and a neighbor actually found ammunition that he had stole and reported it to the police. He didn't serve very long. He was only in jail for a couple of days he did. It was only like a couple of days of jail though, as far as I could find, so it wasn't very long.

But they thought that he just still on ammunition, maybe not guns too. Wait what the guy that reported him did he say that he just stole like bullets and stuff or like guns.

No, he found ammunition and reported him to be the thief, and so they like, sorry, I.

Was not there. Okay.

So throughout this whole time, the devil kept appearing and speaking to Victor, trying to get him to sell his soul and threatening him that if he didn't follow his advice, he would die a million deaths, like this is some dark shit.

Well that's pretty terrifying.

Well I can't I starting at the age of six, is what now been eleven years of this?

Eleven years?

Okay? So Victor also heard from like I said, God and angels, and God actually promised him that he would be taken to heaven if he could catch the devil.

Oh.

Victor tried a few times to catch the devil and managed a few times, but the devil kept getting away. Once he even had the devil, but he had to let it go because apparently the stench was just so bad he couldn't stand it. So he never did end up actually catching that.

That's like really interesting.

Yeah, so when he was nineteen, he actually tried to shoot the devil and he was also unsuccessful, which is just messed.

I'm just like actually feeling like really bad for him.

Oh, he's going through so much.

Like I feel like really bad, like he needed help that he wasn't getting definitely well.

He even said at one of these times, when he tried to catch the devil and the devil escaped, the devil took away Victor's magic from him. Whatever that even means.

Well, maybe it's like zest for life or something.

I don't know. So anyways, on the morning of May twenty seventh, nineteen sixty seven, his mother heard a shot and then another shot. She went outside to the fields where Victor was and she was about halfway there and she hears him shouting, I shot the devil. She pleaded with him as she got closer. She's tried to get closer and closer to him, like don't shoot, don't shoot, And eventually she did get up to him, and she got the gun away and took Victor back to the house.

Who knows, right, Okay, I thought that was going to go down worse, but okay.

Yeah, it seems like she could have gotten shot.

He was shooting his siblings or something and didn't realize or something.

So anyways, a short while after they got back to the house and he took off in a car and just drove away.

Oh man, yeah, she needs to stop him.

Well she couldn't. Like she'd gone back to the house and he just peeled out.

Oh boy.

So immediately as soon as he was gone, though, his mother and father hid all the guns in the house because something something's not right at this point. Clearly they may have not known things are going wrong before, but now shouting in the middle of a field, I just shot the devil while firing shots off in the middle of the air. Something's fucked up.

Something's not quite right here.

Yeah, so they hit all the guns, and thankfully they did, because half an hour later Victor returned asking where the guns are, saying, no one's going to get hurt, and they didn't give him the guns. And he left again and then came back again. And when he came back again, he said he wanted to speak to the local pastor.

Oh geez, his poor parents are probably just like freaking out.

Oh I can't imagine that situation.

Oh man, that would be the most stressful shit to deal with.

So the pastor came to see Victor that afternoon, amongst all this stress.

I guess, well, of course, he probably fren sped his ass there. Well, yeah, like, let's get this down to business here.

Well, and just to kind of get a perspective on the parents here, I do have a quote from the father again at this point in time, and he said that poor guy, I guess he called for help. I guess he didn't know which way to turn. So he just the pastor is where he.

Was going, right, So he's going the right way at that point, yes, yes, So.

While Victor was talking to the pastor, his mom tried to listen, but she couldn't hear much. The only thing she did manage to hear was right at the end of their conversation when the pastor was leaving, and Victor said, and I quote, I'd like to kill mom.

Oh wow, that's shit that you don't want to hear from your son.

No kidding, that's.

Oh, that's terrifying.

So the next day Victor was taken to the Saskatchewan Hospital at North Battleford, which is one hundred and twenty seven kilometers away. I mean, I props to them for making it through the night. Yeah, like the next day that I would have been like, yeah, I don't know if I can stand next to my son who wants

Okay, that's good, though Victor.

He was only getting worse at this point. He clearly understood his own condition and how bad he was getting because he voluntarily admitted himself, okay, to the clinic on May twenty ninth, nineteen sixty seven.

Okay, awesome, that's good. That's a good step.

It is definitely is so when he was admitted, his state became clear to psychiatrists quickly. He talked to himself periodically, he laughed when he was alone. He was concerned whether he was a boy or a girl, because he said the devil put another brain in his body as a special kind of punishment for refusing to sell his soul.

Wow.

And the brain was said to belong to a girl named Denise, who now wanted to take over his body in order for her to become herself. Again.

Wow, that's wild.

He also complained of stomach cramps and burning sensations, and the hospital said he would masturbate daily, which I think that's just a young man's thing. I don't think that's anything to be concerned about. That's normal health, I think.

Okay, no comment.

Anyways, moving on. So, because of all this though, Victor said he wanted an I quote eternity of death. He just wanted it all to end.

Okay, Oh man, the poor thing. Really.

Uh it's just crazy what he's going through.

I can't that's so young because at this point, okay, is he like seventeen there? M not sure.

Well, nineteen sixty seven are.

Oh that's older.

I think he might be twenty twenty one, somewhere in there.

Still quite young. Yes, oh boy, that's like quite the life.

It's I don't know if that is a life. Well yeah, frig So he reported his visions and encounters to the doctors, but he was told they weren't real and they were only in his head. But of course, you know, Victor fought that. He's like, no, like I fought the devil one point, I touched the angels and touched the devil like it's real.

It feels so real to him.

But he quickly came to realize that if he kept saying this, he would never get out of the hospital.

Oh no, oh, so maybe they weren't handling this.

Right then, Oh, the hospital definitely wasn't handling this right. We're getting into that. Don't worry, don't worry.

Yeah.

So he was diagnosed with schizophrenic disorder, chronic with uncontrolled symptoms and severe social handicaps. He was started on a series of twelve ECT twelve etcs, tranquilizers, occupational therapy, and supportive psychotherapy. So to clarify, though, the ECT is electroconclude electroconvulsive therapy also referred to as electro electroshock therapy. What so, I did read up a little bit on electroshock, and

It's not what he needed, that's for sure, right.

Well, electroshock therapy it's a procedure to use to treat like depression and maybe use for people have symptoms symptoms of delusions, hallucinations, thoughts. It's electrical stimulation which lasts up to eight seconds that produces a short seizure, but because of anesthesia, the seizure actively doesn't like actually cause the convulsions. It's not known exactly how the brain stimulates the treatment like correlates between the two, but apparently it's like supposed

And it's I wonder, I don't.

Think so or if it is very rare cases, but it's very controversial treatment. But it doesn't sound as bad as movies make it seem. So sorry, I stumbled through that that was like medical copy and paste.

Trying to read that we knew what you were saying there so after.

His second etc. Treatment, there was improvement. He was more pleasant, less withdrawn, but still delusional.

Yeah, but he's faking it, not.

Really, he's just not being as open and honest maybe, but he's definitely not faking anything. So after his fifth treatment, he was more cooperative and social and stated that his ideas of seeing the devil and talking to them were probably just his imagination. But he did say he still had magic powers.

Those weren't going away.

No, no, ect can't take away the magic.

No, definitely magic powers. You're keeping those.

Yep. Dance magic dance. Sorry. Anyways, after his ninth treatment, not much would changed, but he did claim like he was his usual self. So his twelfth treatment he was doubtful about all the devil and all the angel and all that stuff. He still believed that at times the Black Devil was with him, and he said that if he was discharged, he would try again to catch and destroy the devil.

So that doesn't seem like he's really healed at all.

Not really, he's not really at all.

Because yeah, that doesn't seem like that's really healed at all. Yea, even remotely.

But in Victor's mind, he'd never been more ready to go home and enjoy his life. So her main cooperative, pleasant, sociable, all that sort of stuff. He was a little bit sclusive. Still, they did let him out, let him out. They did let him out.

Even though he was still saying that he was seeing the devil.

Yes, what okay, so we're a little bit ahead here, let me just catch up O. So killing was however, still in his mind he thought of siblings as being dead, killing his parents, classmates. To be clear, though, all these times that he does want to kill, he doesn't want to kill. It's just an urge to kill. It's not that these people deserve to die or he wants to kill him. It's just this overwhelming like sensation that he needs to kill.

That's a lot of serial killers, yes, and murderers and stuff. They'd have this urge, yes, and they act on it.

So he just knew he felt the urge to kill someone, but he had no reason too, but it was there. So the psychiatrist told Victor's father he was schizophrenic. Schizophrenic but not too bad.

Fuck that yeah, holy frig he asked.

He asked the doctor how long until Victor be able to come home? And the doctor said maybe a year or two and he'll be as good as ever. However, July twenty sixth, nineteen sixty seven, only two months after he was admitted, Victor was discharged to his family. Why I don't know, because the doctor's a dick.

Two months when at one point he told his father that it was going to be like a year or two. Yep, they probably just didn't want to deal with him anymore.

I don't know.

Probably I thought they couldn't do any better or whatever.

That's baloney, But this seems like it's a common theme where just people aren't taken seriously, their conditions aren't taken seriously, whether they should be released sooner or later. It seems like just mental illness has never never taken as quite as serious as it should be.

Well, especially back back in the day.

Oh definitely. So he was released with some medication though, to be clear, to help him recover. You know, just that little little good good in your system, right to go, I'm sure, Oh exactly, a couple little you know, tic.

TACs and you're good solid.

So when he came home from the hospital, Victor knew something was going to happen to him. Oh, gosh, like right away.

Oh gosh, it's already just like a big mistake.

In the hospital, a patient even told him that he was going to commit murder three weeks after being discharged. The boy Victor thought must have had visions or something, because Victor had visions and stuff too. Right, yeah, like this this guy knows something. He believed him. He's like, it's reading the future.

What's in my head right now? I'm like, how many more cats are going to get.

Well, we're not looking at cats.

I know where we're done with the cats, but I still can't get over the cats.

So he was glad to be home. It was hard to get used to the farming again. You know, he's a little bit weary entire, but he was. He was happy. He started being without his medication about August eighth. Victor felt like he was fine till August eleventh. Okay, and this is only like two weeks after being discharged.

Right like that? Did they not say this medication was like life for life?

I don't know. I don't think so. And I'm sure back then they probably didn't even care.

No, no, you're good to go. If you feel okay, you're good.

Yeah, And around August eleventh, when things didn't quite feel right, Victor knew that something was up. He's like, I'm either going to go to jail or back to that hospital. And he didn't want to go back to that hospital because he didn't like that electric electric shock therapy. So anyways, every day after August eleventh, he would imagine killing someone again. Oh no, he just wanted to kill He wanted to kill his brothers.

Oh no, oh no, you know, but he didn't so oh, I was just so, I just need to know who's going to die? Is that too much to ask?

It's coming, It's coming. He confessed to his friends that day that he wanted to kill somebody, and you know, his friends are just like, you don't seem like the type. That's it. You don't seem like.

The type, okay, but honestly, like, legitimately, your friends would probably never think that. You would, like, if I admitted something like that, I think my friends would be like, no, I mean some leading up ship to it. Yeah, he was in a mental facility.

But yeah, he just came out of a mental facility and he's confessing to you he wants to kill someone, and you're like, nah, you're not the type.

And yeah, you're just in there for kind of having those urges and seeing the devil and weird shit.

Yeah, that's a little bit. That's a little bit sketch right there. So yeah, Victor couldn't sleep though killing was on his mind, thoughts that maybe he could kill might bring him closer to the devil. Why that thought was there. He didn't want to be closer to the devil, but that thought was there.

So he couldn't get rid of it.

He couldn't shake it, couldn't shake it. Victor spent the day of August fourteenth on the tractor, and at about nine thirty pm that day, he lay on the couch and fell asleep. His parents woke him up at about nine thirty to go to bed, you know, get off the couch, go to bed. But he couldn't fall asleep again, and he began to imagine things so to keep himself occupied. Instead of imagining these things and laying in bed, he went to the garage and worked in the garage for

Okay, like even stronger than the shit.

He was already dealing with, even stronger than before. With this like, oh my gosh, be cut in half feeling, it just overwhelmed him.

Because I'm like, keep working in the garage. That's good, just keep your mind.

He didn't keep working in the garage. He gassed up his car, Yeah, loaded up his twenty two caliber rifle, and drove off.

Nice love it.

As he drove past lots of houses, he felt the urge to stop at each one of them he passed, so those lucky molphos was lucky moos, And every house he passed, urge kept getting stronger. But he kept keeping kept driving.

And this is like the night time, in the middle of the night.

Yeah, this is about two in the morning.

Or see, okay, it's poor people so he ended.

Up coming to a farmhouse. Whether urge was particularly strong, and the voice in his head told him, this is it. This is where you have to go and do it. So unlike those other houses, Victor turned into the driveway, stopped his car, got out, picked up his gun, and went inside.

I just had to like look away from you. It's like a horror movie that you have to like look away.

From You're saying, I'm a horror movie, like a train wreck.

You can't look at me than what you're presenting. I'm just like, I can't look. I can't look, even though I need to be covered my ears.

So he approached the house of the gun, and when he entered the house, he recognized the kitchen.

He recognized the kitchen he had seen it in a dream. Oh weird shit.

But that thought was cut short. He was cut short by the sound of a man shouting who is it? Inside the house was the family known as the Peterson's. The man who is speaking was the father, James Peterson. And we're gonna end the episode here. We we're gonna do a second part for this boom. So if you want to hear the second part to this episode, we're gonna drop it. We like tomorrow. We're not gonna make it.

Oh no, we can't make them wait a week.

That would be mean, to be brutal.

That'd be so rude.

So that is the whole leading up to the massacre. Drop it on Thursday, Michelle Lake massacre.

What we could drop it on Thursday?

That's just me. We'll drop it tomorrow. We can do it tomorrow. You really want to make them wait an extra day?

Wow, you're making me look like an asshole. You're like one.

I mean, I gotta get some Brownie points anyway I can. Right, you need points always. Brownie points are a good thing to collect. Okay, So the next episode will be tomorrow and it'll be the second part to this. And you learned all about the backstory. Now it's into the murder.

Wow, shit's gonna go.

Dang it is so you guys, Thank you for being here. Thank you for giving us so much support. The ten thousand downloads, the like six hundred of you who are actively listening. You guys are.

Insane, amazing people it love it, love it. Appreciate you until Wednesday. Stay wicked. You