Rodney Alcala, The Dating Game Killer. Part 1

Well, Hello, my name is Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast.

Warning. The following podcast contains content and material intended for a mature audience listener discretion. And we're back on the podcast. Hello, what's going I hope everyone's been doing good. I have a sore back from all the research I've been putting into this episode.

Oh my word, you always have a sore back.

I know it's it comes with age.

It's like every second podcast you're talking about your sore back.

Now I need to like make sure I don't talk. I want my sore back, and I'm like self conscious of it.

Thanks, Just drink some more wine more.

I have got wine and water in front of me. Today.

We're not fully or we are adulting. We aren't adulting. I don't know you need to be an adult to drink wine. But last week we weren't drinking alcohol. We said we were being adults. So I don't know what that means.

What are you getting at?

We're drinking this time, that is what I'm getting at. We're drinking red wine. It's delicious, it is good.

Well you just got that? How many bottles did you order from sand Case? Get a case from that?

We're actually drinking Hester Creek right now.

I thought I just assumed this was going to be sand Hill, but I guess not.

I was saving that for some reason. For what reason, I don't know, I don't know, but I just needed wine.

It's a wine.

I didn't feel like I needed at a high end wine. Just wine.

I mean, if you're drinking wine, you can drink from a box, you can drink for a bottle or wine's wine.

Really, we don't judge.

Yeah, we don't judge. It gets the job done, and that's what's important.

I do judge a little bit. Actually, I can tell a bad wine.

Okay, what what makes a good wine? In your opinion? What are you looking for? I don't think we've ever talked about that, have we.

Well? I had some the other day and it just like seemed bland, like it didn't have like you didn't take a sip and it wasn't like who like that's nice flavor, Like that's.

Good, there's to it.

It's not bold. It's just like it was just like, I don't know, you have a sound strip and it was just even there was no peaks take.

There, there's no exponential notes and character. There we go. Why did you just say that then?

Because I never just say things like they should be said.

You know that you dance around things all the time. That's a life of living with you half the time. It's trying. It's like deciphering what you're actually trying to say because you just say it straight flat out. But not even just saying it straight flat out. You say it straight flat out and miss half the information.

But I feel like you're the only one that doesn't understand me, So just get it together.

I try. You can be okay, you can have a glass of water and you can be complaining that the temperature of your water is like too warm because your ice cubes are you didn't put ice cubes in it or something, And we'll be watching a movie and you'll just be like, this is warm. I'm like, oh, do you want me to like turn the temperature down? Know the water?

So you're making it sound like a terrible person. I would never complain about the temperature, Walter.

No, you wouldn't. But that's just like an example of how you just like miss half the information.

Okay, okay, Well I just needed to point it out there that I'm not like that just made me sound like a basic bait. Well, I would try am to an extent, but not to that extent. I just needed to put that out there.

You kind of basic?

So are you?

People are far more basic than me?

Actually, my life goal is to become less basic. But I don't really think I'm succeeding at that at all. So I got to work on that.

You got to work on the basics first.

It's living in a tiny home basic, I mean not.

Really, So that's the idea of it is definitely basic.

But that we're actually doing it.

That ain't basic, I don't think.

So there you go. Yeah, come this fall, I'm not going to be no basic bee no more. It's gone.

Well, you'll still have the basic bee attitude. Miss Lulupants and her glass of wine.

Okas are comfortable.

I'm sure they are. Ripley's diving into her toy.

No, it may be. Okay, let's just see.

We'll find out. Come here, rip, come lay down over here. Come on.

She's young, so she just has a lot of it staring.

At me like, how dare you summon me peasant? Okay, anyways, let's just get into the episode, Okay, ripley aside we I, oh man, I didn't realize how big of a case this was when I dove into it.

You've been talking about it all week. I'm excited.

It's it's something. Let's have it that way.

And you haven't really dived into any detailing. You just go on, it's so big, this is so big, but you'd give me. No.

I told you some stuff, like we even dropped on we dropped on Instagram, and we dropped last week. What the case is, like who it is? But I haven't given you or anyone else like details. But people have looked it up. They know. Yeah, but this case is massive. Oh my god?

Is it? Where's it? Is it Canadian?

No, it's in the States.

Oh okay, okay, okay, So let's.

Just go headfirst into this. Let's just start right out.

Here.

We go die then I kind of like breathe deep people. Okay. So it starts on September twenty fifth. In nineteen sixty nine, there was an eight year old girl named Tally Shapiro who is walking to school along the infamous Sunset Boulevard in Los Angeles and Hollywood.

Oh my goodness, I want to go there.

Of course you do. Everyone wants.

We were supposed to go there. We were COVID.

Maybe one day, but yeah, COVID's stopping that. Anyway. She's walking to school. She's going along Sunset Boulevard, and a car pulls up beside her on the on the side of the street, and the driver asked if she wanted to ride.

Oh, I hope she said no.

Tally actually told him like, you know, I don't talk to strangers, right, good, you know, stranger danger. She's on that, which is really good. And luckily a man had seen the vehicle pull up next to the little girl and he kind of thought it was it was strange, so he kind of like made a note of this, right, Okay, So the car was described as beige colored, a beige colored car and had no license plates.

Okay, that is odd.

Definitely, But I mean we aren't talking the seventies too, so I don't know how odd that is for the seventies, but it's definitely odd. Yeah. The man in the car continued to talk with Tally and apparently told her that he knew her parents.

And that it's okay, okay, that's going too far unless he did know them.

Sorry, we don't know. We'll find out though. Okay, Tally only being an eight year old girl and this being the seventies and there was no real like stranger danger awareness sort of thing, didn't exactly have a lot of fear of people, and so reluctantly she got into his vehicle. The witness saw Tally get in the vehicle, and he followed them and drove the entire way behind this vehicle and followed the vehicle to a nearby apartment and there the strange man and Tally entered the apartment.

Does she supposed to be going to school?

Yes, But this this good samaritan doesn't know that pera at this time. He just knows that this little girl was approached, got into this man's vehicle. He followed them, and they're now at this apartment building and they enter the building. So this all seems strange to this bystander, so he calls the cops. So the police arrive and Officer Chris Camacho knocked on the door, but there was

He would have just answered if there was nothing wrong, you think.

You would think so. So anyways, he threatened to break the door down, and then after that, the man appeared in the window shirtless. Oh an Officer Camacho. He was interviewed in a documentary called The Killing Game. Great documentary, go watch it if you can. He said, I will always remember that face at the window. It was a

Okay, So like I already have a really aft up feeling.

Oh you should you very much?

Like I'm not gonna like this shit?

Am I no warning to anyone out there? This is this is a dark case.

Okay, because already I'm like, holy shit, what's happening here? Okay?

So the man was man disappeared from the window and Chris Camacho's counting up to ten before he breaks the door down. But he's not hearing any any attempt to open the door or anything. So he busted the door down. What officer Camacho saw when he opened the door was horrific.

Oh no, no, okay.

There was a large puddle of blood. What a pair of little girl's white shoes. What? And the little girl's body lay lifeless in the kitchen with a ten pounds steel bar across her throat.

What the shit? And it hadn't even been that long, had it like he brought her in there and got to business.

Yep, it hadn't been that long.

What the shit?

Because when they arrived at the apartment building and they went in the building, the good smartan called the police, and the police arrived. I couldn't find like how quickly this was, but it was shortly after they arrived, so within I don't know, maybe ten fifteen minutes.

I'm gonna oh my gosh, Okay, I wasn't. I was like, way to go, good Samaritan. I wasn't expecting.

Yes, definitely. If it wasn't for this guy, a lot more could have happened. So it was clear that this little girl had been beaten and strangled with this steel bar as well as raped. The man was nowhere in sight, so Officer Camacho began to search, but much to his prize, Moments later, the lifeless little girl Tally began to cough and gasp.

Oh okay, and.

She survived due to the life saving actions of Officer Chris Camacho.

Holy well, I like, pick up my jaw from the ground here. You got right into this.

This is massive, just saying okay, so, oh my god, good on that. Good Smaritan. I couldn't find a name. I'm assuming it's going to be a person who's remaining anonymous. And Officer Chris Camacho for their fast actions because if it wasn't for them, Tally Shapiro would not be alive.

Well, and because how many people would even I don't know. I think you just like go on your day to day you don't even notice, like like I don't know, you're busy, you wouldn't even maybe notice that this looked like a sketchy incident happening, right, So he was observant and like that's awesome.

Yes, So I say so a lot. When I go to start the sentences, I got to try and stop that.

That's okay.

So I'm pretty sure a dog farted, is what I Okay?

Is that why you had that facial expression? Because I know a dog farted, But I just was like, do we need to bring that up again. I was just like going with it.

It's normal in our house. It happens all the time.

So yeah.

Unfortunately, though, with the officer's attention now on Tally, the man who he saw shirtless in the apartment away, he was unfortunately able to escape through the back door of the apartment.

Ah that's disgusting.

Yeah. So but like I said, thankfully though, Tally is now she's she's safe.

Yeah, this shit that happened to her.

She went through some shit.

Hopefully she's like okay later in life.

Well we'll get there, okay later. After searching the apartment, they managed to find a couple of things, lots of camera equipment and lots of photos of young girls, like hundreds of photos of young girls. And luckily they also found identification. Good the man was a student from UCLA and then his name was Rodney Alcala. Rodney. We're gonna get a little background on this, this douchebag here.

This literal piece of shit.

Yeah yeah, and we'll learn throughout this episode just how much of a piece of shot guy is.

Probably the ice This.

Is just the tip of the iceberg. This is just the thing that starts off all this giant chain of events. So this is wow. I don't want to say this is what initiates him getting caught, but this is definitely the first domino that really affects a lot of it. Anyways, Yeah, So Rodney was born August twenty third, nineteen forty three as Rodrigo Rodrigo Jack is Alcala Baroque. I think in San Antonio, Texas. His name is not important. Who fucking cares,

Oh okay, that makes sense.

So yeah, so they have that potential, but it's mostly administrative stuff. However, after a nervous breakdown, he went a wall from the army and hitchhiked back to his mother's place. He was actually later diagnosed with anti social disorder by the military psychiatrist and was discharged on medical grounds. Well.

I haven't even heard of.

That me either. Is that a thing apparently, huh antisocial personality disorder? I guess huh.

Oh, yeah, I've never heard of that. That's interesting.

We've heard of it now, Yeah, and you've heard of it on this podcast.

I feel like I know some people that might have that.

Yeah. Actually, I most people I know probably have that.

Escually. Now I feel like I almost have that. I don't even know how to act in public or social situation.

Especially with twenty twenty COVID.

Yeah, with COVID, it's like we don't have those interactions.

Definitely. Wow, this makes him seem like a sleazy nutcase. That whole like being discharged the military sort of thing, and trust me, he is like one hundred and ten percent. But that's not the perception others actually had of him. He was very much like the Ted Bundy that we all know, like the very charming young man who had those arounded convinced that he was like he couldn't hurt a fly and he was like very very nice and

I guess yeah.

Like they talked to his uh, his professors and stuff, and it was like, how could this. There's no way you got the wrong.

They were shocked. Hey, yeah, holy, that's so interesting that someone could put on that sort of facade.

Yeah yeah jinx. In nineteen sixty nine, however, he was put on the FBI's most wanted list, and three years later he was identified by two young girls who saw him on the wanted poster in a post office. They recognize him as their camp counselor mister Berger at an all girls summer camp in New Hampshire. No full name was John Berger, that was Alis. He was out there, yes, most certainly what he was doing, yep. Quickly the police came in and arrested John Berger or Rodney Ilkala, and

And being a counselor.

Yeah, all girls, little summer camp.

That's freaking nasty.

So this is just kind of painting the picture of the kind of dude we're dealing with here.

It is.

Yeah, and this is already going on for a couple of years, like he was. They didn't know where he was for those three years. He just went missing, and now he was living as John Berger and he's living like wide in the open too, huh, Like wide in the open.

Interesting.

The trial for Rodney. The trial for Rodney began, but unfortunately Tyleie Shapiro's family moved to Mexico because they wanted to escape the trauma, and they refused to appear in court. And wouldn't allow Holly to testify against Rodney. Oh dang, unfortunately.

I mean, I can understand that, but that sucks.

Yeah. So they didn't really have a lot against them in that case, unfortunately, so it forced their hand and the prosecutor allowed Rodney to plead guilty to a much lesser charge of child molestation and he received one year to life sentence in prison.

That's it.

One year to a life sentence. Now that was an interesting little thing because there are two forms of sentencing in the United States, determinate and indeterminate, And I guess determinate is a specific number of years take like twenty five years, means you know exactly what your sentence is, and indetermined indeterminate sentencing means that you meet certain qualifications, like by parole board and not a judge. But your parole might be based on the lowest number of your sentence.

Like a saint in prison then basically, right, is so what that means? Well?

No, because like in court they're like, Okay, this dude is going to go to jail four one to twenty five years. Ok yeah, Now, depending on how he is in jail and stuff, he could only serve one year, could be five determining or depending on those factors, yeah, or it could be the full sentence Okay, okay. And Rodney's case, he was released on parole only thirty after thirty four months in prison. It's only like a couple of years.

Sweet, that's really awesome.

And in nineteen seventy four under that term indeterminate Sensing sentencing program, that's kind of what allowed I allow this to happen.

That just like doesn't actually make a lot of sense. It does the situation.

I know, it was like really popular at that time, but I don't know if it's like still a thing that's usually.

Among criminals that have to serve way less freaking time.

No, it was popular amongst like that era.

I know, I know what you mean, but that's.

It's definitely popular amongst the.

Criminals that's just that's brutal.

Yeah. Now, of course we are talking like an extremely, extremely manipulative person, like very charming, like I said, very ten Bundy esque. So why wouldn't he be able to put on that facade and show he was rehabilitated and make his parole board or psychiatrist think that, oh he's he's good to go back out. So of course he's going to play that system and he's going to take advantage of the lesser sentencing.

Protocols like a psychopath.

Oh yeah, one hundred percent.

Yeah.

So once he was released on parole, less than two months later, Rodney was arrested for violating that parole and smoking with a thirteen year old girl. Okay, yeah, the girl. I couldn't find any like specifics on this. I found like claims on this. So the girl claimed she had been kidnapped, and even still, he was once again parolled after serving only two years of an indeterminate sentence.

Well, he was probably not to be near little girls.

Well yeah, exactly, and that's why he did go to jail for another two years. But the girl claimed she was kidnapped that I'm not sure, like if she was or wasn't, but that was a claim apparently. Yeah, but knowing this fucking douchebag and his behavior, I'm pretty sure she probably was kidnapped anyway.

Probably sounds it sounds like she would have been.

Yeah. So even though he is out, he is a registered sex offender. Just keep that in mind. And due to the incident with of course, you know Tally Shapiro, right, but still he managed to get right back to his normal life due to his his ted Bundy charm, the smile, his charisma, and he was making friends, he was dating, working as a wedding photographer and even work with the La Times.

But I also feel like to just meeting people, you never like checking to see if they're sex offenders, right, And I feel like you could get away with that, Oh definitely.

I know, like today's society, like you're meeting someone on Tinder or something, you're googling, you're doing like cross referencing, photo checks, whatever. But in nineteen seventies, like you don't even have the Internet to do that, Like people aren't going down to the local police station and being like, hey, I just met this guy at a party, can you tell me if he has a history, Like that's.

Not yeah, the normal case. I mean even nowadays, I don't think people do that probably as much as they should.

Yeah, definitely, even still though, like he's working for the La Times, you'd think a company like that might do background checks or even still even further. On September thirteenth, nineteen seventy eight, Rodney was a contestant on the game show called The Dating Game, which is where he gets his nickname The Dating Game.

Killer, right right, Okay, that was one tidbit you had shared with me.

So this, like the the Game Show didn't even do.

Their Yeah you change that they would do background checks.

Yep, they didn't.

Maybe that's just not a thing.

Yeah, So watching the show, and again, remember this is the seventies, so people's character and stuff. Like I watched it, it seems a little weird, but just thinking back, it's the seventies, right, Well, I want to watch it. You can see his charisma and it pays off because he actually gets picked on the show.

Okay, well I don't really know much about the show.

Okay, well you remember how it's like that dating show where it's like you have a bachelor or a bachelorette and then behind like partition number one. You have like bachelor number one, Bachelor number two, okay, and like the girl will be like Bachelor number one, you're taking me on an ideal date.

Where are we going? Okay? So she doesn't see their face or anything.

Correct, they're just like behind this like curtain sort of thing.

So they're using their charm and the soundnother voice and.

Yeah, and Rodney full on, he's making jokes and he's like the way he's laughing and smiling like it's coming across in his voice and it's it worked like he he won.

Hmmm, well, yeah, doesn't surprise me really.

Although after the game show, after he was he was picked, it's kind of funny he didn't actually get to go on the date with a girl because the girl when's actually meeting him and stuff, she found him creepy. I wonder why, yeah introduced Sorry I missed one little parting and to throw us in. When he was introduced on the show, he was contestant number one, and he was described as a sick a successful photographer and you might find him skydiving or motorcycling.

So I mean that sounds like an exciting individual alright, not like raping little girls. Definitely didn't say I like to take photos rape and molest little girls.

It did not say that on the show. Should have. It should have if they did their background checks, it would have, but it didn't. Yes, so the girl didn't end up going on the date with him because he's totally like a creep and she got some bad vibes from him, and she actually asked the game show like, do I have any obligations? Did I sign anything that says I have to go on this date? And they're like no, like, we can't force you to do that shit.

Well, it was good for her for going on her gut people don't listen there. Good enough.

Well, most likely if she did go on the date with this dude, she probably would have ended up murdered.

Yeah, but then now this caused more shit like that sucks.

Well, I will say this though, Like we find out a little bit later on, this was when he was on this dating show. This was in the middle of his killing spree, so like right, smack dab in it.

So her like creepy killer vibe radar.

Was just yeah, she was pinging that on her radar. She's like, this dude is gonna kill me.

So I have a good radar for that.

Hopefully you never have to use it.

That's true, That's very true.

So in the spring of nineteen seventy nine, a twelve year old girl from Huntington Beach, California, Robin Samso, was at the beach with her her best friend, Bridget Wilvert. I think is how you say her name. They were at the beach and they were approached by a man who was who asked if they he could take Robin's photo.

Right, Well, it's one thing if you're taking photos of like a grown person on the beach, but not a child.

Yeah, if you're a girl on the beach.

So that's yeah, that's weird.

Yeah. After Robin left the beach, she had to go to her ballet practice, and on she disappeared on the way there. She never made it to ballet practice.

I don't know why I didn't see that coming.

Yeah. It was on June twentieth, nineteen seventy nine, and her ballet teacher called her parents let her know that she never showed up to class. And her parents immediately phoned nine one one.

Okay and sorry, I just need to clarify something. So Robin was the one that he was taking photos of, yes, okay, not the friend.

Oh the friend was Bridget Okay, So they phoned nine one one immediately. There's they're searching for her. Her brothers were riding their bikes and I quote from them, hours and hours they were riding along the path where she was supposed to be, searching for her. Oh no, and those hours and hours turned into days.

Oh no, no, no, okay, that's really sad.

Yeah, Oh my heart. Twelve days later, in the foothills of Los Angeles, more than forty miles away from where she was at the beach, Robin's body was found. Oh no, she was so unrecognizable from the elements and scavengers. It took police three days to identify her remains and she was mostly just bones.

Wow. Oh yeah, shit cool.

How are you enjoying this case so far?

Well, I'm actually really fucking glad. I have a glass of wine right now because this is stressful. Shit.

Yeah, yeah it is.

That's so sad.

Yeah, I know, so so far we've we've talked about an eight year old girl and a twelve year old.

Girl, and that's probably not even it.

Oh that's not it.

Well no, I mean there was even probably more in there that like, oh yeah, slip through the cracks.

Well, look at those hundreds of photos they found in his apartments.

Well, and the freaking that fact that he was a.

Camp counselor yeah, exactly.

It's just like enough to make you on a vomit.

Yeah. So, because of that incident at the beach though, with the man that was taking Robin's picture, her friend Bridget, who was there with her, was able to give a description of the man to the police, and they released a sketch, which we've already put up on our Instagram. You guys can go check that out. The sketch led a parole officer to call police and I identify Rodney. I'll call it.

Okay, okay, so this is good.

Yeah, so Rodney was identified. He's like, you need to look into this guy. He matches the description, looks a lot like the man you're looking for.

I just broke our pillow.

How did you break a pillow?

My finger just went right through it. That's interesting. Sorry, I love.

Your sex tape.

Okay, so I'll focus. I was just like, how do you break a pillow?

I don't know, broken pillow? That doesn't like ripped.

It to me? The inside is ripped. I don't know.

Keep going, Sorry, how do you know the inside of the pillow?

Outside is fine? I just felt it in the inside.

What did you do to that?

I don't figure it out after Okay, this is really I think it's it's my stress ball. Maybe. I was just like for maybe. So.

Rodney was currently living with his parents and he was out on bail at the time for the brutal rape and abduction of a fifteen year old Monique Hoit. She was posing for photos for him when he knocked her unconscious and she was found left for dead with a shirt shoved in her mouth.

Okay, but she didn't die.

She didn't die.

So with all these people, these little girls saying they'd pose for photos.

Well, like he's very charming, right, and he's this photographer, and he kept saying things like, you know, I'm working on like magazine or contest to photo contests, these sort of things. And he's convincing these girls that they'll be seen in magazines or whatever, and he's gonna take their photo.

And that age, you're very like I want to be seen, Oh.

Definitely, right, So they're thinking I can get in a magazine, I could be famous.

M hm.

So yeah, she was unfortunately left for dead by Rodney Alcala. And again though he was out on bail, Like this is now how many cases we've already gone through and he's just still walking around?

Yeah, Like, how come he's not just in prison for life?

He already should be exactly Unfortunately, like if Tally Shapiro was at her trial, he very well could have been.

That's true.

Eek yeah. At his residence, they found a receipt for a storage locker, and after investigating said locker, oh, they found Robin's earrings amongst a small bag of other earrings and hundreds of photos of young girls who were in their swimsuits or nude and Rodney was even present in some of these photos, very sexual explicit photos.

Oh my goodness, scrawls.

Yes, like this dude just keeps getting worse and worse, Like he's so skeevy.

Oh storage in hey, right, I see, Like storage units are sketch.

And the one of the reasons they actually really jumped on the storage unit was they had Rodney Alcala in custody and he was actually on the phone with his sister while he was in jail, and he told his sister that she needs to clear out this locker for him. Rodney didn't know that the police were listening to this call, and the police were like, we have a receipt for a storage locker and his possessions that we found at

I'm so surprised that because he was like living with his parents, and like, does this the family not know that he's nuts? I mean, yeah, you're always biased through own family, I guess.

And again, his charm, his charisma, the facadey he put on.

His charm's pissing me off right now.

But it just shows how manipulative he is.

Yeah, right, Like it's true psychopath.

He's he's fucking horrible. He's a fucking demon. But what sort of person can be that inside and fool those around him on the outside. It's fucking scary.

It would be interesting to know if his sister would have like cared about those photos or if she would have just discarded them like he wanted.

Yeah, I don't know. I'm kind of interested in that too.

Yeah.

So anyways, he was arrested for the murder of Robin Samso on July twenty fourth of nineteen seventy nine, and in February of nineteen eighty his trial began. Okay, and you know what, I we're cutting it a little bit short here, but we got a lot of stuff to go through. So I think this is where I'm going to cut it off and say that we'll leave the rest for next episode.

This is This is the first of two.

The first of two. We're gonna get into rodneyl call his trials in the next one, and a lot of shit happens. Still, we got a lot more to go through.

It's already been a wild ride, it has let's just continue it.

We're not going to make you guys wait an entire week, though, we'll drop this. What should make him wait? One day? Two days? What do you think?

Are you gonna make me? Maybe the bad one?

I was thinking too to Oh shit, you really want to build that suspense, don't you.

Let's do it.

Okay, you guys are gonna wait two days, So this is dropping on Tuesday, and on Thursday, the second part will come out, and you guys will get to hear all about what this fucking trash bag of a human went through in his trials and what he put everyone else through too.

I hope that uh it satisfied, satisfies us a little, but we shall see.

We'll get there. Mm hmm, okay, well until until that episode.

Until then, stay wicked, friends,