Parting the following podcast.
Audience, Hey, what's up.
My name's ben an Nicle and you're listening to Wicked and Graam.
A true crime podcast.
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, how's it going?
Everyone? Welcome back to Wicked and Graham, the uh to crime podcast where we pretend to pronounce things correctly when really we can't.
Actually, we're doing good.
We're doing pretty good.
Yeah, and this case has been okay because it's Canadian, so like there's some hard words in there, but I don't know how to brown them, like Coquitlam and Nanaimo.
There we go, we got those down paths.
Well, there you go.
We've been to both those places, so.
We know, we know, we know.
What have we got to talk about today? Okay, I saw my first robin.
Spring is in the air and it's a spring. Yeah, we're a little bit mind.
I'm pretty sure a lot of our listeners are a little more Southern than us, and they're like, it's been spring for like a month. What are you talking about.
We still have a foot of snow on a still actually do snow. It's kind of depressing, but at this point it gets a little bit refreshing when it's like it's melting on a pretty steady level.
It is. It's not going to last much longer. Given another two maybe three weeks, it'll all be gone. Other than a couple of snow piles here and there, you know, yes, but it's been the sun shining. It was warm. I was in a T shirt today.
It was great, just the best. I didn't get outside really at all today. It was a little a little bit, a little bit depressing.
Well, you were you were hunkered down in hunkering down.
I had to at a deadline.
How was tiny home life today? Hunkering down, researching and not leaving this like four hundred square foot building.
That was okay, it was okay, it was all right, that's it. I survived.
You survived. Yeah, well I'm glad. I'm not really glad you survived.
It was good. The dogs were outside, so it was good. They weren't bothering me.
No farts on the inside of the house. No, no, well that's good. It's a bonus.
And it's your birthday on Saturday.
Is it a saturday.
You're turning thirty, right.
I'm turning twenty nine. I'm turning twenty.
You go that back that far no, I'm.
Turning thirty four years old. Wow, you and I are the same age. You're pretty much like, give you six months and you'll be turning thirty four.
I'm only thirty three.
Well so am I right now?
Yeah? Well I don't have my birthday on Saturday.
Fair enough? And then after that, you you need to listen to everything I say, because I'm the wise old man.
My goodness, Yeah, I gave you some sweet options and things we can do. When you chose pizza.
And beer, pizza, beer and watch a movie at home, that's.
Why you chose, and actually super chill.
Okay, what do you guys do for your birthday? Because I know, like for me, there was this one point where it's like I just don't want to do parties and stuff anymore. I just want to just chill at home and I don't care if there's even big dinners or anything. I could do it without pizza and beer, like what.
You wouldn't care if there was literally just like a normal day, like nothing, and it wasn't even acknowledged exactly what that. I don't allow that. I actually, I actually think birthdays are a very important thing because they are privileged day that are not grounted to some people. So I true think that birthday should be celebrated very much.
So that's very true. But I think a lot of people, not all, but a lot of people in this world over celebrate their birthday. They think that, well, it is my day, everything should be for me. It's like, fuck off, You're not that special, you know what I mean.
It needs to acknowledged, and I think something needs a special it has to happen in my opinion for me.
I mean, we live good enough life that I don't need a special day dedicated to me. You know, if if I want, I can go out and buy pizza any day I want and just be like, oh, special day for Ben.
Oh can I cancel the chocolate covered oreos?
Okay, you can't cancel those. That is my birthday cake in lieu of if you guys haven't had chocolate covered oreos, Oh my god.
Oh. We have a friend that makes them, and they're so good. They're they're so good. Two dozen dude.
She's even dusted them with like edible like gold powder before Yeah, like a mica powder, but it's edible. It looks fucking fancy and it's delicious. As shit.
We'll have to post them. Oh, do something, We'll do something. Yeah, okay, so we got some patrons to think we do Nicole's reading today. Well, I have a ton of names to pronounce in this case, so I was like, I'll add some more to it.
There we go, we got it, you got it.
Okay, where do we leave off? Okay, so we have Abigail Marie Smith, Samantha Dukes, Marissa Webb, Tammy Earle, Elizabeth Short, and Kelsey Austin.
All awesome people who joined us O, thank you very much.
Actually like easy enough names for me to pronounce, so hopefully I didn't fuck any of those up. But I don't think I did.
You know, I think it's not that they're necessarily easier names. I think we're just getting better at this.
Oh yeah, that could be it too.
It's our awesome skill level of pronunciation going up in the world, I think.
Okay, And I'm actually super proud of myself because I finished the Robert Picton case. You did, and I've literally been putting this case off for a whole year, so you know what, well done.
Well, it's well done. Major pat of the back to you, because it is a major case that's been looming over us. It's one that from day one of the podcasts where like, we have to do this case. It's one that we've had people request time and time again, our most requested case, and it's it's deep, it's horrendous a lot, so well done for getting through this one.
Yeah, sure, I definitely had to have a nice hot shower before this. So okay, And if you're just listening to this and you're like thinking, this is part one, it's not part one. This is part two, yo, So you got to go back and we listened to the last episode because it was part one.
Yeah, hit Part one up and then part.
Two and yeah, part one, I feel like was pretty mild. It was like mostly talking about Robert Picton's past is like upbringing basically kind of up to the point where shit really started going south. I guess. We talked about like Piggy Palace and how about the downtown Vancouver East Side and yeah, so.
And some of the incidents that happened surrounding Picton's childhood that kind of potentially led him on this path very.
Much so potentially could have led him on this path. So this this one is a bit more like the warning we put it the beginning is a bit more.
Emphasis on it.
Yes, I was like, what is the word? I don't even know how to say it.
Yeah, so trigger warning on this because it's a heavy case.
It is very heavy. And yeah, we finished last episode with I was about to tell you about the story of Wendy Lynn Eyesetter. So now I'm going to share that story.
All right, let's get the bull ball. Get the ball rolled? No, it was a ball. We'd be packing the bowl.
I have no idea. Okay, you don't get.
It because you don't smoke the marijuana, not that I do either. I also also, it's completely legal.
Oh okay, I get it now. See my brain doesn't going there.
You're too innocent.
I know I am too innocent sometimes shit, okay, okay. So it was the evening of March twenty second, nineteen ninety seven. Robert had picked up Wendy Lynn Eyesetter from the downtown East Side. Wendy was thirty years old. She unfortunately was addicted to heroin and cocaine, an addiction that cost her two hundred dollars a day. Wow, thats just like some and I have another one in here where it's like how much someone spends. It's just like, whoa, that is a lot of money.
That's a lot of money.
It's a lot of money.
I mean it's honestly, if you're spending that much, especially what year is this. This was like nineteen ninety seven, So yeah, spending two hundred dollars a day in nineteen ninety seven, Yeah, that most people are going to end up on the streets because how are you gonna afflord that exactly?
Yeah, man, sad, that's mind blowing.
Okay.
So she had two little kids who live with their father, and she tried to beat her addiction many times, but unfortunately was never successful. The evening Robert picked her up. She was particularly desperate to make money, and though she only charged forty dollars a blowjob, Robert had offered her one hundred dollars. You see, earlier that night she had hit up that can seek the casino and lost sixty dollars. She needed to earn that money back so her boyfriend
slash pimp didn't find out. So she needed like, so that extra a little bit of money was like, would do it for her? Right?
Well, and that's going to probably stop some a physical altercation. Most likely, so it's she was literally going to save her ass.
She was in a rough position. Robert was offering to pay the extra money because he wanted to bring her back to his place in Port Coquitlam, which was a further distance than she would normally travel. When they got to Robert's house, she remembers thinking to herself, what a
pig sty his place was. His bedroom had no bed, just a sleeping bag on the floor with a thick roll of clear pastick, And at first it was like, oh my gosh, it's so dexter, but I think that the plastic was actually like for cushioning.
Yeah. Most likely.
Robert paid Wendy and they did their exchange. Once finished, Wendy needed to use the bathroom, where she attempted to injected herself with an equal mix of haro and cocaine, but unfortunately missed the vein in her leg and didn't get high. This may have been a blessing in disguise, though, because when she came out of the bathroom and was looking through the the phone book for a number, Robert approached her from behind. He began to caress her left
hand before slipping a handcuff around her wrist. This triggered a fight reaction to occur inside her, and she began to punch, kick, and scream fucking good, like go, go go.
I remember the first time I actually heard the story, and I was just like on the edge of my seat because holy fuck, I know, I can't imagine being in her shoes.
Oh my gosh. She also remembered seeing a large butcher knife on the kitchen table, so she directed the fight towards the kitchen so she could grab the knife, unfortunately grabbing the sharp edge rather than the handle initially and cutting her hand quite badly. This did not stop her, though, and she started swinging the knife in Robert's direction and getting him in the throat. She searched for a way out, throwing whatever she could find in the direction of Robert.
She blacked out at one point, waking up outside but still in mid fight with the knife in her hand frantically jabbing at Robert. Robert got the knife away from her, but then he himself lost consciousness. This was her opportunity to run, which she did to the closest neighbor's house, but no one was home. She then saw headlights approaching. Worried at first it could be Robert, so she hid, but noticed there was two people in the car, one
being a woman. She waved the car down with it initially passing, but a few minutes later it came back. It was an elderly couple and they were appalled at what they were seeing, Like, could you imagine.
Oh god, I can't imagine.
Wendy was absolute covered blood. Apparently her guts were also spilling out of her stomach, and like, oh my gosh, I just think like this, that makes me sound like a terrible person. But I'm like so cautious, like just so cautious, and I would honestly have trouble stopping. But if I was like with you and it was just
maybe like a single person like that. But then also, people do some really fucked up shit to get like people in situations sometimes yeah, you don't know, Like I hate to say it because yeah, you're right, it sounds terrible, but there's situations where.
Someone could be flagging the vehicle down and faking a scenario like that to get you. Yeah, and that's unfortunately the world we live in today, which is horrible.
I know, to actually have to think twice about helping someone because it's shit. But something I didn't even put in here is like she was holding the knife still and then the man was like, don't stab us kind of thing. But then she like dropped her knife right away, so I think he was like very clear that she just like needed help and wasn't actually going to harm them. But still, anyway, they got Wendy to the hospital, where
it was initially not looking good for her. The doctors weren't sure if she was going to make it because they are working on Wendy though, another stab womb victim was brought to the hospital. Robert Robert fucking picked in Like that's screwed. He actually went to a different hospital initially, oh did he? And I bet you he did that himself, but then his of his wounds, he was transferred to this one that was more capable to deal with it. So within his belongings was a key, a key that
just so happened to open the handcuff on Wendy's wrists. Yeah, like wtf.
Right, Like that's that's a smoking, fucking gun right there. Yeah it is.
Wendy thankfully would recover and told the police everything. But she did leave out that Robert was paying for sex in hopes that she could keep the hundred dollars she earned. They told me, she's like that kind of breaks.
My heart a little bit, Yeah, it is.
Robert's version of the story was a little different. Basically that Wendy came out of the bathroom after injecting herself with drugs, saw that Robert had thirty four hundred dollars sitting on the kitchen table, demanded that she wanted her money up front, and started grabbing for the money when the fight broke out. So Robert basically was saying that he was protecting himself, and his story like, go fuck yourself.
Yeah, and I'm sorry. It comes down to who are you going to believe? I mean, it's one person against one person. Where's the proof? Yeah, can't proof shit.
So anyway, fastward a little bit. Robert was charged with attempted murder.
Oh he was for this, oh shit.
Assault with the weapon and forcible confinement. But he had money, and so he hired one of Vancouver's best known criminal lawyers, which hired a priv detective to get as much background info on Wendy as possible. And it's that's unclear if Wendy was aware that there was like a private detective on her, but she was terrified of Robert and rightfully so, and so she didn't show up in court, and therefore the judge dropped all the charges against Robert.
That's right, Yeah, okay, that's why I was like really confused at first. I was like, wait, there was charges, but no, that's right, Okay, now I remember. Yeah, fuck, and she has every right to be that fucking terrified of someone like that.
Well, he's actually kind of like a pretty powerful guy. Oh yeah, I mean money gives you a lot of power, and he had a lot of money.
Well, not only that, he's got a fucking bar that people like who roll with the Hell's Angels are chilling at all the time.
Oh yeah, that would still be open at this point, I think, wouldn't it.
Yeah, So he's he's got connections with some people you don't want to fuck with.
Scary people. Actually, yeah, that's true. Oh my gosh, I just hate that position that she was put in.
Yeah. And then like you say, the money as well to hire whoever or whatever. Fuck, that's scary.
So it went into a lot of detail with Wendy's story, Unlike the majority of the other woman the other women, her story is known. She was a survivor of Robert Picton and the glimpse into her story may paint a picture of what some of these other women went through who suffered a different fate. Now, there are some other noteworthy incidents that happened that should also have gotten Robert
caught and put behind bars, but they didn't. Of course, Gina Houston was a friend of Robert's and I have a friend in quotations quotations because she was more so using Robert. Gina was described as a con artist, thief, drug addict, sex worker, and on occasion madam of a busy brothel. But they did have a mutual business partnership, and that was that Robert would help her with money and food food and Gino would help him find and bring back women from the downtown Eastside back to the farm.
She would also bring other people into Robert's life, one being Andrew Bellwood. When Robert Andrew met, they seemed to hit it off instantly. Andrew was described as a tall and lean as tall and lean with a preppy look to him, but a crack addict, with a criminal record and troubled past. He would sometimes spend up to five thousand dollars on cocaine for three to four day binges. Holy shit, Like that's so much.
How can you survive through that? I know that's a lot in your system?
Wow? Yeah, and yeah, that's I don't know, just the amount that these people are spending on drugs and stuff and they feel like the need and it's necessary for them, right like because they have this addiction.
It's just it's it's horrible and like you, like we discussed already. This is in the nineties, this isn't today.
Yeah. So inflation, Yeah, I know, I'm not even gonna look up that inflation and make us more upset.
Yeah.
So anyway, on one particular evening, Robert wanted Andrew to go get a sex worker with him. This didn't interest Andrew, so he refused, but Robert proceeded to tell him what he did to sex workers. He reached under his mattress, grabbing a set of handcuffs. Then he pulled out a belt and a wire. He told Andrew he would pick them up from the downtown east Side, drawing them in with drugs and money. He'd bring them to his farm, do them doggy style on his bed, which gave him
the opportunity to be behind them. He then handcuffed them before moving on to strangle them. He'd tell them that everything was going to be all right, things are going to be okay. Now that's a good girl.
Fuck what a sick, perverted fuck, it's just nasty.
He told Andrew how much they would bleed. He'd take them out to the barn. He'd hang them, bleed them and gut them, and whatever the pigs didn't eat, he'd throw in a barrel to take to the waste plant. Fuck.
Yeah, this is where we get into the uh, well, the very famous parts of this story.
Yeah, there's a lot of famous parts of the story. We're not quite there. Yeah, okay, But imagine being told something like that by someone like I just don't I think I would just be terrified.
What would you do in that situation? Like, imagine you're in that situation. What would your reaction be? Well, obviously you have like an internal reaction, but how would you deal with that situation? Well, because you were alone with a murder er, now.
You'd have to just fake that. It was like fine, Yeah, I think to get yourself out of that situation. But then the thing is, like, I feel like I would go instantly and report that, which a lot of people don't end up doing. But that's because Robert then gets
in their head and scares the shit out of them. So, like this next part, Robert clearly regretted telling Andrew this because days later he would accuse Andrew stealing tools from him and arrange for some guys to come and talk to him, which you know means he got the shit kicked out of him. Yeah, he was told he had twenty four hours to get the tools back to Robert or he'd be a dead man. The next day, Andrew would head to the ferry terminal, crossing the ocean to
head home to his mother's house in Annaibo. He was treated in hospital for a broken nose, but never set foot on the picked and farm again and never reported the incident to the police.
Fuck, that's scary.
Well, it's like Robert has these people like right where he wants them.
Yeah. Well, he's got influence over certain individuals that you don't want to be on the bad side of.
And he feels confident enough to share this weird shit with everyone because he just thinks that he's going to keep getting away with it, and.
It yes, because he at this point is getting away with it. He has all the power on his side anyone who he's talking to, and like they know he can get away with the shit.
Yep. Now the next incident is so disturbing if this shit hasn't been disturbing enough, and involves an incident with Lynn Ellingson and what Lynn would see. Lynn was also introduced to Robert through Gina. They met when staying at a woman's shelter at the same time. Lynn was a single mother addicted to alcohol and cocaine and was at
the shelter after breaking up with an abusive partner. And something I didn't even put in here is Robert also likes to feel like he's helping people too, Like he I literally thinks that he thought that he's like a good person sometimes and in how he was helping.
People, probably because he's probably got this like mindset it's like, well, I'm doing a good thing because I'm gonna ye pay them to do this thing and I'm going to give them money, or he thinks.
That he's like helping people with their addictions. And stuff like, it's just really messed up.
He thinks he's a savior, but he's just a douche canoe.
Yep. So the shelter Lynne was staying at only allowed for people to stay for a month at a time. Once Lynne's month was up, she initially moved in with a friend, but when that didn't work, in desperation, she needed somewhere else. When Gina suggested Robert's farm, she jumped, I know, what a bitch like she should know better, but well she knows exactly and she's helping Robert, right, and yeah.
She knows what she's doing.
She jumped at this. The farm always had work needing to be done. She didn't get a salary, but got money for food, drugs, and alcohol and a place to stay, so she felt it was a good exchange.
So wait, wait, she wasn't getting paid for her work, but she was getting money.
Well, she was getting like money for food, for drugs, four l alcohol. Okay, like he would supply those things to her.
Gotcha, Yeah, I mean she was essentially getting paid them basically essentially.
Yeah, Like I mean, if you're getting your whole cost of living paid for that, I mean is that what our salaries going to?
Basically?
So, oh my gosh, my little light bulb just went off.
Yeah.
So, on the evening of March twentieth, nineteen ninety nine, Robert and Lynn were out for a drive, a drive to downtown Vancouver's oh, I said, downtown Okay, Vancouver's downtown east Side, There you go. Robert asked Lynn what she was going to do for the evening, in which she responded was to get high. Robert asked if it would be okay if she picked up a girl for the night.
Lynn said it was fine. And I one hundred percent think Robert knew what he was doing here because when he found a girl he liked and asked her to come back to his place tonight. She looked to Lynn for reassurance. She asked her if she was going to be there and and said she lived there. So of course the woman felt comfortable to get in the car
and go there. Because remember everyone down there was like kind of on edge because they were very much so aware that people were missing, and there was a serial killer on.
The lips, and there was like an atmosphere where the girls were looking after each other sort of thing, right, So, fuck.
So Lynn being in the car just like gave her.
That confidence now that it's going to be affirmation.
And also Lynn like had drugs on her lap, I think too, And so then this the sex worker wanted that as well, right, So Lynn and the woman smoked crack together for a bit before Robert was ready to take the woman to his room. Lynn would also go to her room and continue to do drugs. At some point, Lynn would hear a noise, a scream, she thought, which
came from outside. She went to Robert's room, saw that it was empty, and then noticed a light on in the barn where Robert was where he normally does his butchering. Still hearing odd noises, she decided to walk over to the barn. When she got closer, she could smell something awful, and as she pushed open the barn door, that's when she saw She saw the woman's body hanging. She mostly remembers her legs and her painted nail polas, but she knew how she was hanging. It was the same way
the pigs would hang after being slaughtered. Like, I just can't I can't even imagine walking into something like that. Holy shit. Robert noticed Lynne entered the barn, grabbed her and brought her closer to the whole situation, but she avoided looking around and remembers how sick she felt. Robert sang to her that it was okay, she's just like a pig anyways, it's all right, it's going to be all right.
Fuck this fucking guy.
The way that he talks about people just is disgusting.
Oh yeah, the way.
He doesn't even give a shit, which is just mind blowing.
No, he doesn't. And because like, not only the way that he treated this individual and has her fucking hanging like a pig, but how he's treating the next girl and it's just like doesn't give a shit about what she's thinking or anything.
No. He continued which with his butchering until he threatened her not to say a word to anyone, or that she'd be next right next to the woman. She told him she wouldn't say a word and only wanted her dope and booze. He walked Lynn back to the trailer, where she packed her bag. Robert gave her some money, called a cab, and told her to call him tomorrow. It's unclear what Lynn's exact involvement with Robert was after what she witnessed, but the incident once again didn't get
reported as Lynn feared Robert. I mean, he did threaten her and she was very much so dependent on him for money and drugs.
Well, how much of an impact do you think it would make if if you're standing next to a half butchered individual with the perpetrator right there holding I'm assuming, I don't know, maybe a cleaver or a big old fucking butchering knife. If somebody everywhere basically and saying keep your mouth shut or it's you next.
Oh my gosh, I just think you just I would be so terrified. It'd be unbelievable. Now, and you were living with him, you know what kind of influence and shit this guy has.
So Yeah, I mean, I don't think that's an excuse to not be reporting stuff after the fact that once you're safe, but I mean in that meantime.
Fuck but to her, in her mind and stuff, Robert was the one making her safe.
Yeah, right, prior to all I know is at the first moment I got I would literally be running down that fucking road.
Oh my gosh, I know, Oh my gosh, Oh okay, I just can't.
Like I would not be sleeping that night. I'd be like, yeah, she probably didn't give me some weed and some booze or whatever drug it is, and you know, I probably, I mean maybe you'd need to do it to get your fix or the stress of the situation. I mean, yeah, i'd probably need a drink. Actually, no, I think of it. But then I wouldn't be sleeping. I'd be waiting for him to go to sleep, and I'd be playing it all cool, and then I'd be gone at like fucking one in the morning. I'm gone.
Yeah, But then what if he went and like he spent all that time getting rid of all the eminence and shit. And then also like think about the because the police weren't taking people seriously, right that had like addictions or that were had like oh criminal past and stuff, so they might not even take her word.
Yeah, that's that's very much so true. But I'm just saying if it were me in that situation, I'd be high tening it like a little bit. Oh yeah, guaranteed, I'd be scooling down the road like this little piggy went home, would.
Be running after you. Would Be's quite an interesting scene actually, okay. So, Also in nineteen ninety nine, Bill hit hischcocks who worked for the Pictons, would report to the police information he heard from YSA Lisa Yelts. Lisa, who I haven't mentioned yet, was best friends with Robert and best friends with him for some time and an actual best friend. Unlike Gina, she knew a lot of family secrets, though she didn't know about Robert's fascination with the downtown east Side anyway.
Lisa had mentioned to Bill of seeing women's clothing items all over the place at Robert's, as well as purses and id IDs in his trailer.
I do like ads of women behind.
Yeah. Bill reported this to the police and what a strange character Robert was. And he said, with all the women going missing and the attempted murder charge of Wendy, he felt this quite a coincidence. Police attempted to question Lisa, but she had a strong distrust towards the police and so was not cooperative. Unfortunately, the police could not do anything with this information. This wasn't something they could obtain a search warrm for from. It was just verbal information
reported by someone who was not directly a witness. Fuck yeah, now I wanted to go over some of the details of what exactly the police were doing in regards to this case. So, I mean, we've already kind of touched. It took them quite a while to do anything.
Really like any sort of involvement. It took them a long time to get away.
They were very much so denying that there was a serial killer really or anything going wrong. In nineteen ninety nine, the police department formed a working group called Project Amelia, which was looking at disappearances of forty women between the years of nineteen seventy one and nineteen. They had luck in locating some of the missing women on their list, actually, and very much so believed that a serial killer was at work.
Well no shit, Yeah, it took them long.
Enough, hey, but struggling with the old boys of the force who didn't seem to want to believe in new emerging methods of investigation. In two thousand, the project was stopped, with beliefs that the disappearances were going down and that they were stopped, but they hadn't stopped, so that the decision was made to put the officers on more important investigations.
Now I'm curious at what I mean older new tactics like, it doesn't matter. I'm curious as to what it was that made them think that it was on a decline.
It had slowed down. It had like there were some years where it was like thirteen or whatever, and then it went down and there was like a one year was like five and then that year where it stopped. There had only been one so far, so they were thinking that it was just like on the decline, so like wishful thinking almost, it seemed like.
I mean even still they say, Okay, there is a possibility of there being a serial killer out there, and then all of a sudden, it's on a decline. That's pretty convenient. So what do you do, Oh, let's just ignore it.
Well, bit and because like who cares if it was on a decline exactly? Still all these missing women exactly, they not feel like they needed to figure that out.
Yeah, and so they think, yeah, there's a serial killer, they start looking into it. Wouldn't it be convenient and normal for that to be a decline? Wouldn't that indicate that? Yeah, they're right, because now the serial killer is backing off with the investigations ensuing. Yeah, so clearly that is confirming their suspicions, because there was.
Even times that they would be fat, they would follow picked in and stuff or Robert, but they always seemed like he knew right, and so then at those moments in time, like he wouldn't do anything wrong.
Yeah, and then so yeah, of course, whenever a serial killer you know, I don't know, stopped doing bad things, you just let them get away with it.
Clearly, Yeah, holy, holy, Okay. In two thousand and one, Project Even Handed would take on missing files from Project Amelia. The team was a joint force, though it was a joint force of RCMP and Vancouver Police Department investigators, and the starting point was to acknowledge that the Vancouver Police Department had refused to accept that a serial killer was responsible for the disappearances. Good, so this one, like this, like seems when the shit legitly started.
Here, it's when the foot was put down. It's like, okay, we need to do something. Yeah, And it took long enough.
So instead of just investigating missing women, they were also looking at suspected men, which is what needed to be happening.
Awesome.
Robert was on that list and he was actually consider top priority. Dun Dun, dun But they needed some sort of lucky break, because you can't just like I think, you need proof and stuff to get in search warrants and stuff, right, So they needed some sort of lucky break, and that's exactly what they got. RCMP officer Nathan Wells was dispatched to a dispute between Scott Chubb and his common law wife, Tasha, who was separated with At the time, Nathan, the officer had been on the force for less than
a year. Nathan de escalated the situation between Scott and Tasha by talking to Scott for some time. He also realized Scott maybe use a useful source to him at some point in time, so established a sort of friendship with him and left him with his number. Nathan would move into a new job within the Coquitlam's RCMP Drug section when Scott would give him a call suggesting that they should meet. You see, Scott had just lost his
job and needed money for rent. So I was looking at providing Nathan with information in exchange for money.
Gotcha.
So I didn't even know, like that was a thing that people would go to the police to do.
Anything.
Do you have the information?
I guess right?
So long story short, Scott knew of a person with illegal, unregistered firearms in his possession, and that person was Robert picked In.
See you said a moment or two ago that the RCMP needed a lucky break. This isn't a lucky break as far as I'm concerned, because Robert is flailing things like this around yea, and to a lot of individuals who are passing through his property.
It's not about time.
Really, Yeah, it's not a lucky break. It's something was going to catch up to him. Eventually, something had to give, and I think he got away with it far longer than he should.
Have, way too fucking long.
So yeah, like you said, it was about time.
Well even with these got these guns, like apparently he had even like let Scott borel them and stuff like he'd liked to he'd like to show things.
Oh yeah. He was a very showbody individual if you actually look at things. For example, when that girl what was her name who saw the other girl hanging in the barn, uh Lynn was Yeah, so what did he do? He brought her in and showed her?
Yeah?
Yeah, Like are you fucking kidding me? What's any murder movie or anything? What's fucking rule number one, you don't tell anyone about it. What does he fucking do?
And he tells a lot of people, a lot of weird shits, exactly, but it never seems to catch up to him until now here.
So so like you say, it's about time.
Yeah, I am was distracted there because I realized I got a name wrong, but it was so I said, okay, I was going to say, as Scott move forward, but it says Nathan move forward. With this information, he seemed to doddle his eyes and cross his t's and a search warrant was obtained. It also had been asked, so they had asked if a few members from Project even Handed could attend the search with nath then saying yes.
Awesome, So can those eyes open when they're in there?
Then yeah, exactly So. In February fifth, two thousand and two, officers rated the pig farm. In addition to several illegal and unregistered firearms, as expected, they also found numerous items connecting missing women to the property.
Numerous Yeah, who didn't see that coming, no shit.
Robert was initially arrested on weapon charges and released on bail. He was kept under surveillance, not permitted to return to the pig farm while police conducted a thorough search under a second search warrant, using what they had seen on the property to search the farm as part of the
BC Missing Women investigation. And it actually okay in the book, like that book that I read, the police at first were like almost seemed like they were shocked at things they were finding, Like they knew that there was a serial killer and stuff, but like what they walked into it was just like a gold mine of like whoa, Like we got this guy, Like holy heck, like this this is happening kind of thing.
Well, I mean the reality hits though too right. It's like, yeah, okay, there's a serial killer out there, but to actually be there, see it, find it, and understand that this single person is responsible for all.
Of this, the extent of it, the extent.
That that's going to hit home, that's going to make anyone say fucking.
Whoa, yeah, like I think that they yeah, it was just like holy. And then Nathan he was actually the one that arrest like arrested Robert, Like this is really RCMP.
Like fucking good on Nathan, Like so I just.
Think that's so awesome. And he was back at the police station and listening to like the police scanner and stuff, because he was like, Oh my gosh, like, please, I hope that they actually find these illegal weapons, right, like I hoped, like this guy wasn't just setting me up or something. And just like the relief that he had when like he heard that they had found the guns and that they had also found all this other stuff and wow, like you're right there and you're like, I'm good at my job.
Fucking rookie of the year, no kidding.
So among the evidence they discovered were handcuffs, women's clothing and shoes, jewelry, and asthma and hailer prescribed to Serena abbots Way, who was one of the missing women being searched for DNA testing of blood found in the trailer tested positive to be that of Mona Wilson, who was
last seen in November of two thousand and one. On February twenty second, two thousand and two, Robert was re arrested and charged with two counts of first degree murder in the desks of Serena abbot's Way and Mana Wilson. Mona Wilson. There we go, this.
Fucker he's in handcuffs and he's in fucking jail, and fuck this guy.
Okay, we'll just wait till you hear this, because this is actually like it's not comical, but it's just like idiot, like Jesus, like an idiot.
Well, we already knew that part. We already knew he's an idiot.
So while Robert was being held in jail, he shared a cell with an undercover RCMP officer who he believed to just be his cellmate. And like the idiot Robert is, he did some confessing in his jail cell to that cellmate as he sat there eating his nasty meal, Like anything this dude does is just nasty to me. He's a nasty molful. He basically confessed to murdering forty nine women and that he got sloppy and wanted one more
to make it an even fifty. Disgusting. He also went on to say he filled syringes with anti freeze and when you inject this stuff, you're dead in about five to ten minutes.
Fuck.
When the undercover officer mentioned the ocean was a good place to ditch bodies, he said he did better than that. A rendering plant, which is a place that takes animal waste and basically converts it into other usable material. So being that Robert was a pig farmer, he had access to this type of plant and no red flags would go about go off with Robert making regular deliveries there.
The rendering plant was also close to Vancouver's East Side, so he would literally, like I just imagine, probably go dump wasted body parts and pick up something someone new.
Yeah, yeah, because he would he would like hide a lot of it on like the bottom of the buckets. Yeah, but yeah, it would be like bones, feet or whatever from like animals, animal carcasses that you don't use, You just stow it in there and it'd be turned into a lot of it I think was like cosmetics and stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah, so that's where Yeah, so anyone living in British Columbia, Canada in like late nineties early two thousands, remember those like little chapstick things that all those little girls would have. Yeah, probably potentially tainted.
Cool, but just see wait, and this actually just triggered a memory to come back, because there will be at times people picking up his waist and there would be like people saying they notice chunks of meat in there and stuff, which was just like not normal or be like charred. Yeah, but then this no one really there just like did their job and like never really questioned anything, which is okay. Meanwhile, the Pink Farm began the became
the largest crime scene in Canadian history. During the early days of EVA or excavations sorry, forensic anthropologists brought in heavy equipment to shift sift through three hundred and eighty seven thousand cubic yards of soil, including two fifty feet fifty foot flat conveyor belts and soil shifters to find traces of human remains. Like they had a lot of soil to go through.
Oh yeah, they did.
This is absolutely nuts. Investigators took two hundred thousand DNA samples and sees six hundred thousand exhibits. The cost of the investigation was estimated at nearly seventy million dollars. Wow, which I'm like, who the fuck paid for that? But I think I know, and it's disgusting. Yeah, that is a lot, the fact that that took, Like I mean, of course they needed to do that, oh yeah, but it's like this freaking asshole costs people that much money? Like, are you serious?
Oh yeah, it's like he cost lives and then he made civilians pay for his repercussion.
That's just it's just mind blowing. Yeah, Okay, here I go. Among the few items I already mentioned as being found, they also found a partial jaw in an area Robert fed his pigs, decomposing human remains in five gallon pails, blood sloked clothing, vertically cut human heads within buckets in the freezer, important documentation with victims' names, hands, feet's feet, dildos.
One apparently being attached to a zero point twenty two caliber revolver, which I think it was a silence or that's from what and I didn't like really dive in super deep, but what I read it said that he was using that as a silence.
Which is really fucked up.
More decomposing remains in a garbage bag, teeth, large amounts of blood, and syringes filled with a blue liquid anti freeze.
Fuck.
And I could go on and on, but I figured that was enough. He also was like terrible with like animal cruelty. The pigs that he had, oh my gosh on his farm were like not taking care of well they were. It was awful, like just all like the lots. I think one of them, it's aid, had a baby. But then all these babies ended up sliding into mutter something and died, and then the mom could barely walk.
And it was just like most of them were just they had to put a lot of them down because they were just not He just didn't give a shit about anything. And here's how the charges followed. On April second, two more charges were added for the murders of Jacqueline McDonnell, Diane Rock, and Heather bottom Lay. A sixth charge for the murder of Andrea Josbury was laid on April ninth,
followed shortly by a seventh for Brenda Wolf. On September twentieth, four more charges were added for the slayings of Georgina Pappen, Patricia Johnson, Helen Hallmark, and Jennifer for Minger. Four more charges for the murders of Helen Chinook, Yeah, Hulk, Sherry, I've ivring. I'm sorry if I'm pronouncing these names wrong. I'm seriously trying, and Ignat Hall were laid on October third,
bringing the total to fifteen. On May twenty second, two thousand and five, twelve more charges were laid against picked in for the killings of Kara Ellis, Andrea Boorhaven, Deborah Lynn Jones, Marnie Frey, Tiffany Drew, Carrie Kolski, Sarah de Veres, Cynthia Felkicks, Angela Jardine, Wendy Crawford, Diana Melnik, and A Jane Joe, bringing the total number of first degree murder charges to twenty seven.
And he openly admitted to a cellmate of forty nine.
Yep. So unfortunately they didn't get him for all of them, like they couldn't find evidence that linked him to forty nine cases. Now, before I move into talking about the trial, something else noteworthy to mention is that on March tenth, two thousand and four, doctor Perry Kendall, BC's senior health officer, had an announcement to make and it goes as followed. I don't know if you remember this.
I don't think I do remember this.
As a result of information we received from RCMP, we have reason to believe there is a strong possibility that some of the product from the Picton farm, and how much the RCMP do not know, may still be sitting in people's freezers in the lower Mainland. Basically meat from the farm could have been mixed with human flesh and sold to the public, the other claim being that human remains were fed directly to the pigs. That's all I
want to mention about that. But doctor Kendall did say the health risk of eating this meat could be a bacterial infection, but that was even unlikely unless someone ate it raw and uncooked. The thing that concerns me the most though with this announcement is like the pain and trauma it must have caused the victims loved ones like that is just gut wrenching.
It's gut wrenching, and I do just want to point out though, the potential of pict in just throwing the meat in grinders with with pork very slim.
Yeah, I don't think that was really his full intention.
Well that's what people kind of blew it out to be and they did. Yeah, I mean there's a potential that it did that, but it's not most likely he could have with.
Some for sure, Like I don't think anyone like knows for certain.
Yeah, it's probably just cross contamination as what it was. He probably used the equipment to dispose of people's remains, and I mean, we know he was not very clean, and he probably just once he was done and then got onto butchering the pigs. Butchered the pigs with what the same.
The exact same stuff, but then also the pigs consuming because there was bones and stuff that too for well, right that they had been like eating. And he even said that he would feed things to the pigs.
YEP.
So I don't know, I honestly actually feel like I remember that happening being announced and just.
Like, yeah, no, I didn't realize what announcement you were going off on, and yeah, I recall it too.
Yeah, because like we live in the same province, so it was kind of like, holy shit, but we're not in the Lower Mainland.
But there's a lot of product that comes from down there that could shipped up here. There's a very real possibility that our supply was their supply. So you and I could very well have been on Picton's fucking tainted supply list.
Yeah, I mean LOTSI Bombe SI could have been. Oh yeah, so that is just it's unbelievable. It's literally unbelievable.
It makes my stomach fucking turn.
Noep, this guy is so disgusting. Okay, So moving on to the trial, although Robert had claimed to murder forty nine women, he was only charged with twenty seven and later twenty six when one charge of the Jane Doe victim was dismissed for lack of information. Robert would, however, first be tried for six counts of first degree murder.
It was explained that the judge made the decision to split the charges because doing all twenty six at once would have put an unreasonable burden on the jury as the trial could have lasted like upwards of two years.
That's fair, It.
Does seem fair. That would be a that would be insane. So those six counts were for Serena Abbotsway, who disappeared in August two thousand and one at the age of twenty nine. Mona Lee Wilson at age twenty six, disappeared in November two thousand and one. Andrea Joesbury was last seen in June two thousand and one at age twenty two. Brenda Ann Wolfe at age thirty two, was last seen
in February nineteen ninety nine. Marnie Lee Fray, twenty four years old, was last seen in August nineteen ninety seven and Georgina faith Pappen last seen in March nineteen ninety nine and was thirty seven years old. On December ninth, two thousand and seven, the jury returned a verdict that Robert was found not guilty on six counts of first degree murder, but was guilty on six counts of time
second degree murder. A second degree murder charge has a punishment of a life sentence with no possibility of parole for ten to twenty five years. The judge sentenced Robert to a maximum with no possibility of parole for twenty five years, and those convictions were upheld by the Supreme Court of Canada in two thy ten. After the trial, British Columbia Crown prosecutors kept open for the possibility of
trying Robert on the remaining twenty charges. However, on August fourth, twenty ten, prosecutors announced they would not proceed on the twenty charges. They said a second trial, even if further convictions were achieved, would not add anything to Robert's punishment because he had already received the maximum. So I feel like a personally had mixed feelings about this, yeah, and so did the families. It angered some of them as they as I'm sure they felt that they weren't getting
the justes they wanted for their loved ones. Then others said they were relieved at being spared the experience of another long and difficult trial.
That's fair too.
So I don't know. I just feel though, if there is ever the chance that he is living after these twenty five years, that if he was actually tried for all of these I don't know, wouldn't that just make it it better that he would stay in there ever longer?
Yeah, you would think so, So I don't know.
But then also he already costs everyone so much money, and that would cost a lot more. I don't know. I just have super mixed feelings about it, I think, But I do think it probably should have gone forward.
I mean, he's got the maximum already and there was all these additional ones on top of it. Should add something like what, there's just a cap I'm like, okay, you get the maximum for X amount of people, any X amount of people you killed. After that, you just get away Scott for that.
It seems really it does seem weird.
Like like there's just no charge for those Like what I know, I know it.
It doesn't make a lot of sense, but it makes it's parts of it make sense. But I do feel like they should have probably still just gone ahead with it.
Well any other case that I've really ever heard they do, But yeah, they do. They It adds up. It's like, you get like three hundred and ten fucking years in jail. Why does he only get like twenty five?
I know, because like what happens when he reaches that twenty five years if he's still alive, Like holy shit.
Oh, like it would be a civil war in Canada with.
Oh my gosh, there's like no way. I mean, I don't there's just no way.
They're like I can't imagine. Oh, like it would.
We haven't been done the math of this, Like when was this dude born? Here? He was born in nineteen forty nine.
Are we mathing this right now?
Yeah, we can pause this for one second. Mathis okay. So Robert was basically fifty eight years old when he got like convicted, So twenty plus half years is like eighty three. So like there is like the possibility there there's a possibility alive, which is terrifying.
If he ever fucking gets out of jail. Oh my god, shit is going to hit the fans. Oh yeah, I totally would because yeah, the rest of the people that he could have been convicted for and he's just walking for you, Like what the fuck?
Yeah, because there's also the thing of like consecutive sentences. Yeah, but is that not for secondary I don't know, it's this whole thing. But anyway, he's not gonna get out. He's never going to get out. I just don't think he's ever going to get out.
I really hope not.
Okay. One last thing to note, and I almost left this out due to the length, but I think it's really important, and that is that In twenty ten, a provincial government inquiry was established to examine the Picton case and how it was handled by authorities. In December of twenty twelve, a final report was issued by the Missing
Women Commission of Inquiry, titled Forsaken. Will put the link to the report in our show notes, but in short, it said blatant failures by police, including an empty criminal investigative work compounded by police and social prejusice against sex trade workers and indigenous women, had led to a trajectory of epic proportions. The inquiry issued sixty three recommendations, including the creation of a greater Vancouver Regional Police Force to
allow for more effective, less fragmented police cooperation. It also called for adequate funding for merchan selters for women in the sex trade, and for a compensation for children of
the missing women. Following the report, the Vancouver Police Department implemented several policies and changes to its missing person's investigations, including making the Missing Person's Unit a regular part of the police department and starting missing person investigations without delay, and also not closing them until the person was like found good and one very very very last mentioned because I didn't know where else put this, And I apologize
ahead of time because it's going to make you very angry. But the clothes and rubber boots Robert had been wearing the evening of Wendy's attack, the attack we started with, well, those were seized by police and left in an RCMP storage locker for more than seven years. In two thousand and four, they were tested for DNA, and two of the victims, Kara Ellis and Andrea Borhaven's DNA was found on them. Fuck and I had not heard that before, and I was.
Like, oh, yeah, I haven't heard that before either. Shit, seven years they left it in the locker.
They didn't test. They tested? Why I mean, I mean did they They just didn't think that they probably had to.
I mean, in fact, they already had the DNA elsewhere. I mean I guess, yeah, but you could still probably fucking test that because it could have come up with other names, other individuals.
I know, because even at one point when Robert was kind of like, they're eyeing them up a little bit, did they not be like, oh my gosh, like we have these boots. They have them?
When did they have them?
Sorry, well, they have them for like right after Wendy's thing.
Oh after Wendy's.
Wendy and Wendy was in nineteen ninety.
Oh shit, I thought you meant like when he was actually arrested.
But no, that was holy fun, like for the attack where the victims survived, right, wow, like how I started this episode. Yeah wow, yeah, like that almost is enough.
Okay, Wow, that's fucking scary and dark and really fucking sad. Thank you for bringing that to my life. I'm scory, Holy shit.
You know I pretty much well yeah, I'm started and ended this podcast with Wendy, and that's a tough pill to swallow right there.
Wow. Yeah, I've heard this case a few different times, a few different ways. I've never heard that piece of information before.
Yeah, me, neither.
Holy fuck, you're good. I'm good. So that's Robert Picton.
Hey that's Robert Picton.
Holy shit, Well, well done. Fuck Robert Picton.
He's a douche. Yeah, he is a nasty mofo.
And I hope he never gets out of prison.
No, he better or not he can't.
I will fucking lose my shit.
There would be what's that called, like when people start petitions? Yeah, a petition would un like that, I've seen that start.
There would be more than petitions, would.
Be a lot of things started.
Robert Picton would have pickets outside his prison and petitions for Picton's I'm trying to say stuff to start to peek, but I lost my train. Sorry.
Yeah, well, anyway, thanks for listening. That was quite It's quite a doozy of a case.
Yeah, and well done.
Here.
We appreciate you guys being here. Of course, check out our social links down below. We've got Instagram, Facebook, all the good ones. Of course Patreon, we have merch as well. You can go check out our merch. Support us anyway, even just listening, We really appreciate it. It supports us and it means a lot, so thank you very much, Thank you, and of course, as always, stay wicked.