Robert Pickton – Part 1

Recording the hood.

Conial mature audience listener, just question, is that much?

Hey, how's it going.

I'm Nicole and I'm Ben, and you're listening to Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast, and just like that, here we are, here, we are. We are welcome an awesome episode today. Are we are? We are?

We?

Yes?

Yeah we are. It's very much sort of requested episode.

It is. But before we get into that, we have other things to talk about.

Yeah, we knew. We had breakfast for dinner tonight and it was awesome.

Awesome, bacon, eggs, hash browns, toast, what else, strawberries, strawberries, Oh, the strawberries made it. That was like a nice little dessert.

Was that epic? And it made me feel like I was twelve years old? But I was okay with it.

Was amazing. I came home from work and the smoke alarm was going off, so I knew Nichole was cooking dinner.

Okay, that's not fair. The tiny home smoke alarm goes off constantly. Yes, yes, And I had one of our dogs outside posted for sale. It was just not it was just not going well for me.

Anyone want to buy a dog.

And I'm like, welcome home, Ben.

It was actually great. The smoke alarm was good. Joke. I was like, oh, dinner's done, but yet. No, it was just because K and cook and bacon for breakfast, and bacon can get smoky in a tiny space, that smoke alarm goes nuts.

Yeah, I thought. And it doesn't even seem like it's smoky in here, but it's like it just goes off. So it just I don't know. Anyway, anyway, there anyway things to happen that wasn't that bad.

I agree.

It was a delicious dinner.

It was delicious. What else were we going to talk about? Oh, we got to talk about this. This is very important.

Oh you're a bit delayed there, dude.

Yeah, throwing everyone for a loop?

Wow?

Keep and I'm guessing you know, got to be on your toes.

Yeah, we do actually keep people on their toes.

It's important.

We'll have to post how we warm up for episodes. You were singing Moana.

I was singing some ma Wana. We already posted that as a story on our Patreon.

So and I was dancing around like a hippi because my shoulders were killing me, and I was trying to.

You look like you're in some sort of like cult dance spiritual thing. You're doing some weird moves there.

It actually helped, though I feel a little.

I'm sure it looked odd, but I'm sure it helped.

Oh whatever works.

Yeah. But speaking of patron though, we've got some patrons who signed up this week that we got to thank de Wey. We have quite a few people who signed up.

Are you going to re Actually yeah, like it's in my mind, like it's so every time I go on then there's more people and I'm just like, oh my gosh, yeah, so excited.

It's amazing everyone who's supporting us over there. So big shout out to you guys, thank you, and we're going to say everyone who signed up this week, Nichole's gonna do it.

I don't even have the list, so I have it.

I show you, I can show you.

You fly at her, all.

Right, I'll do it. Fine, Okay, So we have thank yous to send out to Elizabeth Hutchins, Sabrina Randall, Hannah Campbell. Loved the last name Campbell. By the way, I'm a Bruce Campbell fan, so you got me on your side right there. Marizia Chitwood, Kim Amanda Kingry, kat Peterson, Kayla Peyton, Katie Tautman, and Rachel Dullit's wow. Thank you all of you for being so amazing and supporting us over on that platform. It makes it it, Honestly, you guys what helps us keep going. So thank you so much.

Oh yeah, I think I've said this before, but I literally have my notifications turned off on most things but not not Patron because it makes my day.

Okay, I just want to say one thing though. I've tried time and time and time again to turn the notifications on for messages on Patreon, but for whatever reason, Patreon does not.

Notify us when we get I don't get those.

So if we are behind on Patreon messages, guys, I mean, anyone, we've talked to you, we've already told you that. But if you message us on Patreon and we don't message for a few days, it's just because Patreon didn't tell us that you messaged us. We will find the message and we will message you back, and we will eventually.

It is very odd actually, like, yeah, you'll get notification for someone signing up a comment, but yeah, not a message. And you think that's like the most important.

And like I said, I've gone in. I've turned those notifications on my phone several.

Times and they're just like no, yeah, I mean yeah, in.

The in the settings, it says it's on, but it just doesn't doesn't tell us yeah, do better. Patreon. Yeah, it also pisses me off. They don't let us upload videos. That makes me so mad. I'll be doing like little logs all the look at us.

I feel like last time we were bitching about Spotify, now we're mentioned about Patreon.

Yeah. We also do have to thank a few people who went out o their way and gave us reviews when we requested it last week. So thank you so much.

Yes, that was awesome.

We had some awesome comments, So thank you so much for viewing us, giving us those five stars, giving us those comments.

You guys, we super appreciate it. We're so lucky to have supporters like you. Seriously, yes, we're very, very, very lucky. I don't feel very lucky that I decided to pick this case or not pick it. I had on my list forever, and I'm like, I want to do it, but I'm like, well, so daunting.

Since day one, we've had this on our list, and since day one we've had people requesting this. Yeah, this is probably our most requested case. So what case is that?

So, well, it's the case of Robert Picton. Yes it is mister Robert Picton.

This one's a little bit close to home for us. Yeah, mind you, he's a little bit of a distance away. He's probably nine hours, which I think we're.

Talking about that in my notes. Dude, you're jumping ahead.

Sorry, may I go ahead? I think he's about eight hundred kilometers away from us where he was, but us being in a small northern town, like the distance doesn't matter because it's just like the next big city sort of, so it might as well be just next door.

Yeah, And like, so this was very much so in the news for us. I mean it probably was maybe worldwide, but like very much so. I remember living through this kind of thing right coming out of news and all I'm just being like, wow, just flabbergasted. Really Yeah, it was disgusting.

Yeah, that's a very light way of putting it. This man is trash.

Yeah he's nasty.

Yeah, nasty picked it and.

I'm going to be very kind. This is going to be like a two parter. So I'm being very kind because you guys will probably be all at me where I end. So if you want to save it until you can watch or list watch, listen to both of them at the same time. Fly at her.

But and it's going to be worth listening to both, oh.

Gosh, because yeah, well the second one is just going to be better. Yeah, there's a lot of shit we have to go through before it gets a bit more interesting. I guess you could say, yeah, a bit more shitty. I don't know.

Shitty the things that he did, but yeah, can I know what you mean by yeah? Yeah?

Okay, So let's dive in here. Heh, you ready to rock and roll?

I got a drink? I'm ready?

I got waa. Okay. So I'm going to start this case off by sharing the very broad but sad truth about it, and that is that between nineteen seventy eight and two thousand and one, at least sixty five women disappeared from Vancouver's downtown east Side, and in all honesty, that number is probably low because some woman may never have been reported is missing at all?

Yeah, one hundred percent correct.

Right, So for all of those who you haven't heard of, Vancouver's downtown east Side. I'll share with you it is unfortunately a very sad picture to paint. The City of Vancouver's website describes it as being an area in recent years that has struggled with many complex challenges including drug use, crime, homelessness, housing issues, unemployment, and loss of businesses in the community, which is a very polite way of saying, you don't want to find yourself in this area.

Definitely, definitely.

It was in the nineteen eighties that the area began to rapidly decline for many reasons. There was an increase of hard drug use policies, aka the government basically pushed sex workers and drug related activity out of nearby areas areas into a centralized area. And I don't think that's like was a Vancouver thing. I think that's happened other Oh, definitely, lots of places and the lack of the lack or

Yeah, And to sum it all up, it's essentially like, if you end up there, it's society has abandoned you.

Yeah, I mean, okay, there are resources down there though, and I think there are still people down there trying to help. Like I'm just going to say that, but yeah, like like you really, Ah, it's so sad and it sucks you even you try to get out, it sucks you back in often.

Yes, that's very, very true.

So, and I've actually driven through. I remember driving through that area as a kid and just being like whoa, it was just like a different world.

I went through that area just a couple of weeks ago when I was in Vancouver.

Oh did you have to walk through that area?

No? I didn't walk through it. I was in a cap and.

We drove through there, Oh did you Heyah, Well, it's quite close to Gastown, isn't it, which is where we love in Vancouver.

Gas Town is gorgeous. Some cool stuff down.

Yeah, And I think when we went to the Police Museum that they had there, it was like pretty darn close.

Yeah. Yeah, it was there were some crazy things in that police museum.

Mm hmm, it is. It was a cool place to check out.

I remember one thing particularly in that police museum. There was those cabinets of like confiscated weapons, some of the stuff, like there was literal shurricans, like ninja Shurricans throwing stars. But there was a whip made of chainsaw chains. Oh my god, do you remember.

I don't remember that. I was more interested in the morgue part, which is really I'm not sure what that sounds about me.

There was like baseball bats with of course barbed wire, and like a lot of things, but that whip made of chainsaw chains was messed up.

I remember the brain, the slice of the brain. Oh yeah, those are the things that stand out. So anyway, yeah, it's like literally just quite gut wrenching is a way to describe it. The community has a low trust of the police. This case maybe an example of why. But I've also read that the residents of vancouver Downtown east Side experienced Canada's highest rate of death from encounters with police. So that's scary as hell.

Wow, really I didn't know that. Yeah, that's sad.

I know. I didn't really look into that further, but I was like, holy shit. So, like I said, it's a really sad picture to paint, but unfortunate. It's the reality of the situation, a situation that Robert Picton very much so took advantage of.

Took advantage of, and was probably very much so a part in creating or at least.

Well definitely wasn't helping.

Yeah, exactly, he was a part of it, and he might have been a part of its birth.

I don't know if I would say his birth.

Well, at birth in this century.

It definitely was put unncessary fear into people that were already fear stricken.

You could say that, Yeah, well, I guess maybe not it's birth, but he helped perpetuate it. He could have made it worse.

Yeah, I mean well, yeah, anytime you actually read anything about down Vancouver downtown east Side, he's mentioned. So he's very much associated with it. Okay, So Robin was Robin? Who the fuck is Robin?

Shout out to my sister. Robin.

Robert was born on October twenty fourth, nineteen forty nine. His full name Robert William Pickton. A lot of people call him Willy and You'll listen to a lot of podcasts or they say Willy, but I'm not saying Willy. I just don't want to say Lilly. This whole thing.

He's Robert Picton, Robert.

We're calling him Robert.

Fuck you, Robert, fuck you, and your name Willy.

I know he's nasty. His parents were d and Louise Picton. Robert was the middle child with an older sister and a younger brother. The family were pig farmers, operating their pig farm out of Port Coquitlam, which is about twenty seven kilometers east of Vancouver and, like we had mentioned, about nine hours drive away from US.

Can I give you a pat on your back for something?

Absolutely okay?

You listen to like ninety nine percent of podcasts out there talking about Robert Picton. None of them or n of them don't know how to say Coquitlam.

No, but I know how to say it.

We get shit for our bad pronunciation. We can say.

Coquitlam, we can say Port Coquitlam, we.

Can so fuck yeah. We got one up on all those for that. I know.

It was actually funny. There was a few people that are like, I don't know to say these Canadian cities. Yeah we got it, and then yeah we do get people get we get a hard time sometimes. I mean, that's a hard city to say, but I don't know, I don't know how to say it.

You do, and you did well, So good job, patt in your back. Thank you.

I feel like my comminance is just exploding out of me.

Perfect. That's what we want. High five, high five, high five. Bohm, okay, keep going.

Okay. So Robert's upbringing wasn't exactly great. His mother, Louise, was an interesting character to say the least, asides from her looks of rotting teeth, lost hair, and a go tea. Apparently she had a go tea. I know, right, I can feel her pain. Though I got some serious hairs on my chin. Sometimes on the chin. I need to like get that dealt with that. It just happens as you get older.

It does.

It's so I don't I don't. I feel bad for her. Really, I'm not shaming her.

With that, but I'm sure it didn't add to her well.

She could have. She could have maintained her go tea. Let's just say that.

I maintain, so do I. Facial hair maintenance is important.

She had a high pitched voice. Also don't shamber for that, but it was often heard calling for her children across the neighborhood. I suppose you could say she dressed in a house dress over jeans and rubber boots, which is quite the visual. Both her and Leonard did not care about their parents or their hygiene, and that was passed down to their children. One interesting, yet disgusting fact is that the farm animals had the run of the farm,

Yeah. So I do know a lot about this case.

Well, yeah, we both do.

Yeah. Yeah, generally we're presenting to each other and we don't know the case. But yeah, I know a lot of this, and that's.

I think you'll probably know the majority of it, to be honest, I don't even know if there'll be much in here that will shock you.

Well, yeah, I've researched this before, but it's been a while. But yeah, the one that really stuck with me is, Yeah, the animals get the run of the house.

So yeah, they're tracking in dirt, manure, and they're relieving themselves in the house. Yeah, because animals don't give a fuck where they go. They got to go, they go.

Which is understandable. Think you have a dog that's got to go, it's got to go, and it doesn't get outside fast enough. It's going to go in the house.

But you clean it up.

Yeah, you usher the dog outside, let it have its space, and you clean up afterwards, not just belying oh there's a pile of shit on.

The floor, Oh well yeah, which she had that attitude. Oh well, yeah, the smell didn't affect her. Oh well, yeap, Like okay, that that.

Is just beyond The family is effectively farm animals themselves.

Yeah, they're pretty much living in like a barn in a sense really like because I mean, hey would have been get brought in like a lot of shit would just get her all in there.

Yeah.

So the poor children, especially the boys, had high expectations of working on the farm and would often be going to school dirty and I'm sure you could imagine not smelling all that pleasant. They only received weekly bass if they were lucky, which was not enough to remove the dirt and the odor and just at all so gross.

I need me like frequent showers.

Yeah, I mean that's just so sad. Oh, because I didn't even put it in here, but like Robert had a fear basically of like showering. Yeah, like what the heck?

And that's because of his upbringing. Yeah, because of his parents and what they did to him.

Yeah, which is like his childhood wasn't great.

No, the So this is not just Robert Picton, this is his family.

Yes, but it is more so and I'd probably say this in later, but it is more so the brothers, the sisters. Seemed like she was treated a bit differently, and she'd been interviewed at times too, and didn't often I kind of said that with an accent, didn't often describe is like the situations is that terrible? And then I do think when she was in high school she went and lived with relatives and Vancouver and stuff, so she she really like wanted to be away from this

Oh yeah, so.

I would imagine the bullying had to be pretty bad.

Towards them, no kidding, I got bullied just from my name because that like muscle cream, the ointment Ben Gay. Of course kids latched to that. My name's Ben.

Oh geez, did you not know that I literally went to high school? I think I did, but like I forgot because it's just so silly. Yeah, I know, right, I don't know everything. That just is people bullying. It's silly.

Yeah, high school is brutal.

So yeah, they got. I'm sure it wasn't great for them. Robert had some sad stories to share from his childhood. At age three, he crashed his father's truck. He was sitting in it when it started to roll. His father was yelling at him to stop, but he was three year old, three years old and would have no idea how to do that, and inevitably he and the truck crashed into a tree. Afterwards, he received a beating from his father. That's honestly the father's fault.

Oh, I can't. I can't imagine an adult blaming a three year old for a piece of equipment like that rolling into a week.

He fucked up, The dad fucked up.

Yeah, even if picked in as a kid took off the e break.

Or did take he wouldn't have done it intentionally exactly.

He doesn't know what he's doing. He's a kid. You shouldn't have left him in there.

Yeah. So, at the age of four, Robert was forced to smoke a cigar by his mother after being caught smoking a cigarette. This was her idea to cure him of ever wanting to smoke again.

Yeah, not that I agree with it, but that was a popular practice back in the day.

Oh was it? Actually, I've never heard of that.

On TV shows. Lots you heard that, like that seventy show or whatever, like, Oh, you catch your kids smoking a cigarette, They're going to sit down and make you smoke the whole pack.

Oh my go.

The idea was that you're going to smoke again, get sick. They're going to get sick and be deterred from it.

Oh my gosh.

Not that I agree with it. That's basically abuse.

But I mean it did work for him.

Yeah, the theory is there, which.

Yeah, yeah, okay. But the worst of all might have been When Robert was twelve years old, he saved up thirty five dollars to buy a three week old calf. Oh yeah, with the intention that he would keep the calf for the rest of his life. He treated the calf as his companion, taking care of it and enjoying spending time with it, until one day he came home

So brutal.

This just devastated him. He would he wouldn't talk to anyone for four days, and I like, I honestly don't even blame him. That shit at twelve years old would impact your life in my opinion, Like, that is like brutal.

I'm pretty sure that is the moment that directed picked and down this path to be a serial killer, because at that moment, I'm sure he lost all compassion.

Yeah, Like I just oh, it almost makes me want to bawl my face off because that is just so sad.

Well, I imagine that was the literally the only thing he loved that he had, Yeah, and then it was just taken away and then he was just left.

And then they thought too and they were like, oh what are you like, have some up because like they were eating it. Yeah, and this will make you feel better, and the moment offered to like rebuy him a calf and another calf and stuff, because like they didn't realize it would devastate him to this much, this extent, I guess, But no, that was like his calf. It wasn't like replaceable.

Yeah, like oh, which I mean, that's that's farm culture for you. Because to the parents it wasn't a pet.

It was but they should have known that how important it was to their son.

Oh yeah, I know that. But yeah, to the parents it was not a pet. It was food. Yeah, but two pickt in it was a pet. There is a very those are very two different lines for for general society and farmers. Yeah. So his parents didn't realize it was a pet, which I mean, that's their fault for not knowing they should have that connection with their kid to fucking know that.

Oh my gosh. Well yeah, and the fact that he bought it with his own money and stuff, right, he saved up for this exactly, Like that is it just destroys me. Actually, it's so sad.

Oh and the pict Ins were rather well off too, so it could just go buy some fucking food.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know, per se, if the parents necessarily were super well off anything, they wouldn't have struggled. Now any the kids became well off, and we'll talk about that.

Ye.

So at the age of fourteen, grade eight, Robert would drop out of school in nineteen sixty three. He had a tough time in school. Along with the bullying, Robert was a quiet boy and was considered slow. He dropped out of school or him dropping out of school didn't bother his mother, Louise. It just meant more help around the farm. She also wanted him to learn how to butcher, so after leaving school, he would start an apprenticeship with

I know where you're going.

When David was sixteen years old and new to driving, as he was driving home in the family truck, he would strike a neighborhood cas Timothy Barrett. I think it's Barrett from behind, who was walking home from a friend's house. Tim was a grade nine student and had only lived

Yep.

What happened next is so appalling and maybe a glimpse into why Robert thought nothing of taking a human life. David was told to take the family truck he was driving to the shop right away to get the damage done, repaired and essentially covered up yep, while Louise herself went to search the road where the accident happened. Shortly later,

She literally chucked him in the fucking ditch.

Like I just can't I just can't even believe this. And just wait, because it gets worse. Tim's dad had phoned the friend's house the night of the accident in search of his son, but they hadn't seen him since the early evening. Apparently the buddy's house that he went to, like was busy so that he couldn't he couldn't play, which they're probably like, oh my gosh, I wish like he wasn't busy, Like there's that just happens with so many things. Apparently, also Tim was he wasn't walking like

Hindsight's twenty twenty though.

Yeah, you can always change something exactly, Okay. So the police were informed, but there was no news until the early morning when tim dad and the friend's dad went out to search the road. As they searched, Tim's dad came across his son's shoe on the side of the road, and then he spotted Tim, as you can imagine, practically

Yeap.

The injuries he suffered from being hit would have badly injured him, but it was determined they most likely would not have killed him.

So he wasn't dead when she fucking ran in the ditch.

And if either one of them would have just like called an ambulance, he would have lived yep, which is just holy, oh my gosh, it actually like makes me rage inside.

Oh, through and through. It just shows what kind of fucking people these are.

These people are just unbelievably disgusting human beings.

If we haven't showed enough already, like clearly they're fucked.

Like I can't, I honestly can't believe. Like he was a little boy, well, I mean he was a teenager, but that's like for the span of your life. That's a young boy, Like he had his whole life ahead of him, and they just fucked it over.

And could you imagine looking at a unconscious, clearly young boy in the middle of the road, even if he thought he was dead or not, and just rolling him into the ditch.

I think that she would have known that he was alive. Probably, I actually, in like, I just think that she would have known, probably because moving him and rolling him. I think that you would have.

Been able to tell, I would assume. So there probably would have been some moaning, some breathing, some gasping something.

Oh, it's just devastating, Okay, I have to move on, like that's just rough to move on from. Robert's father would pass away in nineteen seventy eight of cancer, dying at the age of eighty one. The following year, cancer would strike again, this time killing Louise at the age of sixty seven, so there was like a pretty big age difference between the two of them. Robert was the mom's full time caregiver, so she like or he took every bit of need that she had while she was dying,

Wow, I don't think I knew that part.

And he would have only been about thirty years when his mother passed away, Like holy shit, Wow, I'm assuming that this was her way of making sure the farm was taken care of and the other two children didn't really have the same interest in the farm that Robert did. But then for the fact that he like he changed her diapers and everything, like he did like everything for her, and this made him completely disappointed and feel stuck.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, you're right, but look at it as clearly he's the more competent one of the children because he is looking after and everything. So who better to make look after the farm.

I don't know if I would say he's the most competent, well.

You know what I mean in showing his mother he was the competent one.

I guess. Well, and then he I think like he ended up getting that twenty thousand I think was like an extra twenty thousand, if I can remember correctly, and then he get like what his siblings got when he was forty, so like technically he was getting more money. There was something too that I had read. If the dad had died first, it was like completely oh my myke heeps exciting. It was like having some uh, I'm having some issues here.

It's some mic dysfunction.

It's just dropping so weird.

Okay, it doesn't usually happen like that. It usually stands straight up and performs really well.

Okay, So if the dad had died first, I hope I'm remembering this correctly. It was basically that the sister I think, only got like twenty thousand and the rest was split between the brothers. So like the dad was like leaving like nothing to the sister.

Really, yeah, gotcha, that's interesting. Yeah, that's I wonder why.

Yeah, I know, so I mean, I think it was just that she wanted the farm looked after, and he was the only one that had an interest in it, is my assumption, gotcha. So the years after the passing of the parents, Robert and his siblings, his sister being a realtor, sold much of the farm for urban urban development, making millions. So I think they sold three different chunks of land, and so they earned five point two five point two three million, Like that is a lot of money.

Oh, they probably would have got like ten times that today.

Oh gosh, yeah, But I mean that wouldn't have done anything for Robert.

No.

Uh, actually know, they wouldn't have because the farm would just be like, okay, if nothing happened, you mean, if nothing had happened.

Honestly, no, like even if they if the the property, if everything still happened and the property was sold today, that property, I'm not talking about like the farmhouse, the farm itself.

I'm talking to the land that's stale. Would people want that shit?

I guess probably land like that close to Vancouver.

Like that, that's true, that's true, that's.

Big, But I'm just like that is prime real estate.

Robert would maintain a small scale livestock operation at the farm. Well, the majority of the land seemed to be used for Robert's brothers endeavors. Robert, Yeah, Robert was the older one of the two brothers. It seemed like the brother, the younger brother, had like a lot of control over him, almost it did seem from my ratings. So the endeavors that the brother had included a top soil business and he used the land for a parking lot for trucks

Yeah, so they were quite the pseudo entrepreneurs kind of Yeah.

Yeah, because in some reports even said that like Robert owned the demolition business with David.

But then it wasn't nothing was every clear, Like I couldn't.

Fully clarify that. So I know David ow them for sure, not sure, but Robert, and so for anyone too that doesn't know what a chop shop is, it's a place where stolen vehicles are basically dismantled so that the parts can be sold or used to repair other stolen vehicles or items sometimes are hidden all together and claimed for insurance. So they would be like burying shit, and sometimes they wouldn't even bury it. They would just like cover it

Well, if you look at the picture, the picture you posted.

I did post, Yeah, it looks like a mess.

Oh yeah, it's disgusting.

Yeah.

I've seen farms before, and I mean, farms are gross. It's a muddy cross place. It's understandable you have animals and everything growing around, but that just looked fucking gross. Yeah.

So the next endeavor for the Picton brothers would be what they called Piggy Palace.

And this was Piggy Palace.

Piggy Palace.

This is my favorite part of the story just because of how ridiculous it is.

It seems pretty ridiculous, like absolutely, I can't even believe that this happened.

I know so.

And that was in nineteen ninety five, nineteen ninety six. So they purchased property not far from the farm and converted a large corrugated metal shed to have a long bar, full restaurant kitchen, walk and fridge, and raised dance floor. Old beer signs were hung, fluorescent lighting, and a revolving disco ball and sound system. I mean, am I was kind of interesting there. I actually should try to find a photo. I didn't try to find a photo.

Yeah, I'm sure there is pictures out there.

Because this is also almost like in farmland, And it was like, like, I feel like I would never go there, Like I feel like I would just get freaking murdered.

It's called Piggy Palace and it's on a.

Farm like there's I don't think that I would ever go to something like that.

And it was a known hangout area for people like the Hell's Angels. Yes, yeah, that's not a place I'm going to just go chill right Saturday night.

It seemed like a lot of people would go check it out, though, so there were enough tables and chairs to fit upwards of one hundred and fifty people. There was a cover to get in the place of like ten to twenty dollars, and they would bring in usually no less than ten thousand dollars like on an average night, which is cool, Like that's a lot of money. And I think there was one it said one night they made like forty over forty thousand, Holy shit. So the place was just like Hoppin'.

Piggy Palace rolling in the dough.

Yeah, the place made a lot of people excited, including Robert. He hoped this was his chance to find a steady girlfriend he had. He had had very few relationships in the past. Most females either friend zoned him or were basically like repulse by him. I don't know how to say that. I think I can say that, Yeah, he's nasty.

I'm not surprised repulsed. You're nasty. Pick then you're nasty.

He was briefly engaged, so he said, to a woman named Connie when he was twenty four. She was a pen pal friend. He like that was his thing. He was like, had pen pal friends mostly and they're mostly female.

Well, if you don't have much charisma, that's where you go.

I know.

So he going online? Azel. Does anyone remain remember Azel asl no no chat remember that the fucking late like MSN Well, like I'm talking like internet chat rooms, not just msn.

Oh like, and you could chat with anyone in another one.

Yeah. So you like Azel, you'd ask people Azel be age sex location. So how old do you are you girl? Guy? What and where do you live? Oh? Interesting, you don't remember that shit.

You had too much time on your hands, dude.

I had a lot of time.

I was. I was too busy.

I was playing fucking Diablo and StarCraft and talking to people in chat rooms.

Okay, so where was I here? So he went to visit her at one point and holy shit, I'm actually reading in the wrong line smooth.

It's so easy to do that.

Well, you messed me up. Okay. Yeah, so he went and visited her, but she was she was living in Michigan, so apparently, like he came back, they were engaged, but she had a job in Michigan and he was like pretty attached to the farm. So it just like didn't work out.

Gotcha. Also, I like how I tried to cover for you there so you can have.

Time, and then I just blamed you.

Yeah, I'm like, it's so easy to do that, and you're like, fuck you, Ben, it's your fault. Thanks, love you too, babe. Trying to have you back here.

Oh, that's us to a tea. Okay. So he also had a thing for one of his brother's girlfriends, Sandy, and Sandy, from what I could tell, was the mother of David's kids, and when they broke up, it devastated Robert. He apparently asked her to marry him, but she turned him down. So like, that's really interesting.

I'm just singing songs from Greece right now, Sandy. Oh gosh.

I was like, you seem really into that, Okay. So the idea of this picky palace excited him, and so apparently for a very brief period in his life, he decided to clean himself up to not be like such a disgusting, nasty motherfucker.

Wow.

So he like got new clothes. I think he bathed a little bit more. I can't remember what the hell it's called, but like he was balding at the top. He had like nasty kind of long hair, and then he got this hair piece that would like sit on the top of his head like a too pey. Yeah. I was like, I can't remember what it's called. So like people notice at first, like oly, shit, like he looked like a new man really, like who is this guy.

Which again props to him for trying to turn himself around and not necessarily saying it has to do with looks, but I mean respecting himself and cleaning himself and hygiene.

That probably made him feel so good.

Yeah, so props to him for that, Like you.

Can absolutely turn your life around at times, I think, like you just you just got to have a will.

Yeah, So it shows like Robert Picton could have been a good person.

Mm hmm. I honestly feel like I don't know in a sense, andimes I think he could. He really could have been if this so many things had been different.

I think so too.

It's like they say, sometimes serial killers are made, and I think in this story that's the truth.

I think he hit the nail on the head there one percent. Yeah, through and through. Yeah, okay, but it's true. So yeah, he cleaned himself up very briefly, but then like he didn't take care of this two pay is that what we decided? It was called yeah, hair pieces.

And so it very quickly got disgusting and like he was just I don't know, it's just very quickly. So like he went back to his old waist because he even had gotten like a new motor home, but like he just didn't keep up with anything. It's like it's not he almost didn't know how or something. So the brothers would later incorporate Piggy Palace to be I always want to say it with plural piggies, but I don't

I think there were certain events.

Where charitable events. Probably yes, certain.

Charitable events that would have attracted those those more official types, and then like maybe the weekends or something like that, and then when it was back to the weekdays, that's when it was the regular's toll in or something like that.

But it is surprising because the zoning of that shit must it just like they must have just had a complete idea that they shouldn't be there.

I feel like, you know, I never even considered zoning. I wonder if it was like even a thing. Well, yeah, it would have been.

I have this later because it was zoned for agricultural purposes.

Yeah, it's very much so.

And there's a bar there like that is just it's just like the opposite of what it was zoned for.

People just not asking questions, I guess.

So. Neighbors would complain often of the rowdiness, drug use, and noise coming from the parties. At one point they were sued by Port Coquitlam officials for violating zoning. Audience audiences, I think that's how you would say that.

How come you just questioned the zoning when you just had the answer in the next sentence. You totally set me up. Thanks appreciate it. You just wrote me around. Well played, Well, that's how we roll.

But that's how we roll.

Throw Ben into the bus every time. Everything.

Okay, you're making me sound like a terrible person. I made you a delicious dinner, a delicious cheese. K Okay, you out to swain that it's just is it just for no? What's it called?

Last One Laughing?

Last One Laughing? Holy shit? But it was a Canadian show, right.

Well, it's not a Canadian show, but there was a Canadian version. So if you don't know, there's a show called Last One Laughing. This is totally not.

It's totally off talk about it.

It's just fun. But there's a show where basically comedians get thrown in a house like Big Brother, and they have to stay in there for like ten hours and they're not allowed to laugh, so you have to make the others laugh to leave the house, and last One

And he just over and over constantly. It was the funniest shit I've ever seen. And now I cannot hear or say the word delicious without thinking.

That delicious cheese.

So we constantly just say delicious cheese sandwich in this house.

We should have a shirt that says delicious cheese sandwich.

Actually i'd wear I'm rock it. Okay, holy shit, where was I here?

Sorry, We're the worst.

Okay. So, like basically everything else in their life, the brothers ignored these legal pressures, eventually getting banned for holding future parties, and ultimately in two thousand, the city shut down Piggy Palace. It's honestly surprising that they had their fun for like that many years. That it was probably four years.

Yeah, that's absurd.

I cannot even believe that they got away with that for four years.

Bringing in, like you said, like ten grand a night.

I know, like they must like run rich as heck. I don't know. Maybe there was high costs of running it, but there was also along with like Hell's Angels. There was sex workers that would come and like people from the downtown east Side and stuff. So I don't know, like it's just the fact. And then it was being ran as a charity and stuff. It just seems like the most interesting.

Regardless it promoted a very not so much healthy lifestyle.

Yeah, I don't know, the whole situation just seemed so crazy to me. Okay. So now, during much of this time, from the span of Robert losing his father slash mother just shortly after the close of Piggy Palace, there was a wide known problem happening in Vancouver's downtown east Side, and it was the disappearing of women, more specifically sex workers. As the rate of disappearances escalated, rumors of a sex section I know, I got this, but I'm like, I'm

And clearly because the RCMP.

City Police they didn't feel like anyone else did.

Yeah, the police didn't have their back. So I don't think RCMPR in Vancouver. It's city police, aren't they.

Yeah, I think it's like Vancouver Police Department. Yeah, I don't think. I don't think it's rc ANDP.

So I just wanted to clarify because I said RCMP four.

Oh okay. So family members and friends were also reaching out to police, reporting their loved ones as missing and having no idea why or how they vanished, but knowing their loved ones were leaving behind personal identification, treasured children's pictures, medications, and uncashed welfare checks. Things that you wouldn't necessarily be leaving behind if you were just like skipping town. Yeah, no, kidding, very important items really.

Yeah, someone who's skipping town, you know, running away from a lifestyle or other individuals that they're probably going to need all the income they can get and they're going to take that with them.

M they're medications, and they're probably going to get the photos of their.

Children, right exactly. They're going to take those possessions that are close to them.

Absolutely. Most of the senior police officers in the Vancouver Police Department refuse to believe a serial killer was at work because of the marginalized lifestyles and transient habits of the victims going missing, The police were not taking the concerns seriously and believe there was no indication of a serial killer on the loose, instead suggesting that an increasing level of violence and disputes over drugs in the downtown

Yeah, and I mean just playing devil's advocate here, say the police are right, and that is playing a role. I'm sure it is playing a role. I'm sure it's not the entire reason, though maybe there is. It is accounting for a couple, but it's definitely not accounting for all.

Oh yeah, I mean some of them would have been overdoses, but then they would have had a body, and some people did go missing later to be found. So it's like I I but the amount of numbers that were going missing was too high to ignore. Really. Oh yeah, So in nineteen eighty seven, the RCMP did set up a special team to investigate the disappearances.

You said, RCMP.

Shit, I do have RCMP. Okay, now I'm gonna have to double check.

I'm pretty sure. I'm gonna give here a quick Google while.

Your tah no, let's just look right now.

Okay. So we just gave it a quick Google search, and just to clarify if RCMP are operating within Vancouver, here's what Google says. It says the Northern sorry, the North Vancouver. Wow, I can't talk good thing I'm not presenting today. The North Vancouver City District and provincial RCMP units, for example, make up the North Vancouver detachments. So there is both RCMP and city police in Vancouver.

Okay, which makes sense because I do kind of go back and forth a little bit.

So yeah, so they're they're operating together basically.

There's also Google reviews for RCMP, which seems wild to me. They are happily they have a two point eight goog review.

Why am I not surprised?

That's really interesting. They should be having not reviews on there. Okay, but I also just have to say something really quick, is we are garbage jump in town. I have to like google it sometimes to look at the hours, and there's literally a five star review on there. That says some they what did it? Would say, it's a garbage dump. I dump things, and every time I look at the hours, I just like freaking laugh my ass off. It's so funny. Five stars, five stars and lets me dump things.

Yep.

Okay. So in nineteen eighty seven, the oh did I Okay, that's where we left off, and then we're like, oh, there's yeah. So I'm just gonna say that lining in. The RCMP did set up a special team to investigate the disappearances, but due to limited progress, it was disbanded

That was information overload.

Yeah, we had to get through all that stuff to be able to tell the rest of the story.

Well, it's severely important to consider what happened after words, because now we kind of have a picture of his history and what kind of individual he has become, yes, and the opportunities he had to turn himself around and never really fully took advantage of them.

Yeah, so we'll be we'll be doing part two next week. And I also wanted to showed out a book. So this book was written by Stevie Cameron and it's titled On the Farm Robert William picked him and the tragic story of Vancouver Missing women. And so I'm finally reading a book for a case, which I'm like, yes, some'vering awesome.

You generally don't have the time to read a full book for.

It, I know, And this time I'm just like, you know what, I'm just going to like do it. So I'm I am like skimming because i mean, it's like seven on our pages and we're not going to have like a seven hour podcast. So if you really wanted to, like dive super deep, you could read that. And because it's really well done, it's just like a wealth of information. But yeah, next week we'll be giving you more details on this and this nasty character that we're talking about here.

Yeah, one that hits close to home for us and one that is known worldwide because this is crazy.

Yeah, it's very crazy.

Well well done so far, that was really good.

Thank you.

Yeah, if you guys want to see more of us, of course, check out our social media links that are in the description or the show notes of this podcast. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, all those good ones, and of course Patreon, Patreon, and you can check out the new merch we dropped this week.

Oh yeah, we had some super cool merch.

Actually, we had three new designs, all colored designs for T shirt stickers, water bottles, you name it, all designed by the guy who's talking right now. And socks, Yes, socks.

The socks are actually dope. They are I love They're so good. Yeah, And honestly, if you have a moment, we would love, love, love for you to give us a rating because it really really helps.

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Week, stay wicked.