Lake Bodom Murders

The Lake Bodha murders is one of the most infamous unsolved homicide cases in Finnish history. Four teenagers went out to enjoy night of camping and were mysteriously attacked while sleeping in their tent. Only one would survive. Despite an extensive investigation, the person responsible for these heinous murders has yet to be found.

Good warning the following podcast and the graphic cemeterial for mature audience listeners. Hey, I'm Nicole, I'm Ben, and you are listening to Wicked and Grim.

A true crime podcast.

Hello. Hello, we don't have any can opening this morning. Cheers because it is the morning right now earning.

This is a rarity for us that we're recording this first thing in the in the nicko down? Is that the same?

The nick of down is the same. I think you're trying to, like say, like the nick of time and like at dawn?

What is he saying though with down? Though?

There we go? That was an interesting combination.

I actually kind of like my my version better.

Are you thinking like the crack of dawn?

Maybe maybe the crack crack of dawn? Ask crack of dawn? I don't know.

Funny story, my dad's name is down.

Oh there you go. You just made that weird?

Yeah wow yeah, So welcome to Wicked and Grim. Yeah, we're tired.

We're recording this a couple of days early because now is going on on a little Vaca.

Little holiday, and we're we thought, you know what, we just did a Q and a break episode, so we probably shouldn't break episode again. So we pushed through and Nicole poll basically an all nighter to get this episode done for us tonight while I was getting ready for my vacation. Yeah, there we go, So thank you for that. What else do you have to talk about? What do you got?

Oh we did a pretty fun vote on Instagram.

Oh that's malarkey. That was bullshite.

Oh the competition was really unfair there, Like, I'm sorry. I yeah.

Well, to lay down the foundation for this, the expectations were.

That I was going to get my ass and did to me.

We knew that if you didn't know the last episode. I bought some knockoff pit vipers for my vacation, right, so, super cheap, super god awful. I looked like a complete tool, but I wore them while we were recording last time.

Oh man, the whole episode was actually the worse for me. I had the worst part in all of this. That was terrible.

I had no problem.

I couldn't even see your eyeballs. It sucked.

Again, I had no problem with it. So Yeah, anyways, we decided to do a little who Wore It Best? Over on Instagram and Facebook. I mean I think it was posted on Facebook as well, but the poll was on Instagram itself. Yeah, and it was who were at best?

Between myself and little Ripley, our little I was going to say four, but I think she's still only three. Three year old husky. Yep, he was cute as hell.

The results not surprising. I kicked Ripley's ass. No, I'm just kidding. Ripley kicked mine hand overfoot ninety four percent to six percent. I did have six percent of the votes.

Yeah, that's actually pretty good.

I had what was it like fourteen votes or something like that.

Thank you a bit more than that.

Well, thank you to those people. I can't go into the analytics right now, but yeah, I'm not going to waste that time, but thank you to those people who did vote. I literally have looked through all your names and I made a mental note you guys are now in my good books. You earned some brownie points.

My gosh. I think the biggest problem was the fact that I voted for Ripley.

Yes, that is my issue with this whole.

That was Ben's main issue. Okay, no, but I didn't. I tied my vote. So I have two accounts as I have like my personal and then I have my business, and I voted for each of you, which I thought was very fair. I love you both.

Yeah, it is very fair if it was a fair fight. However, we already said we knew I was going to get my ass kicked, so I thought I would be able to depend on your support.

You did. You got my one vote and.

Ripley got your other. That's that's bullshit.

Yeah, that was That was the thing that actually made Ben the most up set there.

So I it was malarkey. I failed through and through.

I thought it was kind of funny though. Anyway. We also have a few lovely patrons patrons patrons I always like make over on Patreon, patrons on Patreon to thank.

This week that ten times fast patrons on.

Patriot And just a side note too, Like we said, we are recording early, so if you do sign up then in the time being, then you'll we'll thank you next week.

Yeah, pretty much, you'll just be You'll be thanked eventually because we're recording early and I'm gone for a week, so yeah, we will catch up on you. You will get your shout out, don't worry about that. So the three we do have to shout out this week are Mimu Wama, love that name, by the way.

That's awesome.

Deborah Morel's I hope I said her last name right. She did tell us over in Patreon how to pronounce her first name, so I'm glad she did that.

Thank you her first name or last name her.

First name, because she's got like a little like asterisk over the e and stuff, so sometimes it's like you never know how it's really pronounced. Yeah, so she clarified for us awesome, And Katie Johnson perfect, Katie, love your name. It was easy to pronounce. I have no question about it. So thank you for that.

Yes, thank you so much. That's so awesome. Oh my goodness.

Yeah, and I do want to tell everyone about a contest we're currently running over on Patreon as well while you're here for the next week, So it's going to be what was the date again, It's next Friday, which I think was the twelfth, No, the ninth, It's up until Friday, September the ninth. We want people over on Patreon to you know, do a little thing, send us a little email with it all. I can't I can't tell you guys, because you got to be a Patreon

Yeah, just being here and listening is awesome, So thank you.

Okay, should we get into this. We've rambled for like five minutes already.

So I just have like a disclaimer I suppose is that there's a lot of hard names to pronounce in here, so as always, we're going to do our best.

Wickeds.

Yeah, it's funny. This is actually a case that I feel like Ben would probably have done and chosen. So I'm basically being Ben today, but with a little bit less.

You need to wear.

With a little bit less able to pronounce. Is that how you'd wear that, I guess with lack of pronunciation, ben with a little less lack of pronunciation and sunglasses. Yeah, no, I just have my normal, uh, my normal glasses, normal spectacles, my computer. Okay, Oh my gosh. This was actually kind of an interesting one to research. I enjoyed this, so not that I enjoyed what happened, but it was just a bit interesting. So today we are talking about the Lake Botom murders.

So I've never even heard of this one.

I know, which is mind blowing. So. Lake Botom is a Finnish lake located near the city of Espo and twenty kilometers so twelve miles west of the Finnish capital Helsinki. It just it's described as a large, tranquil lake surrounded by small villages and stands of birch and pine trees. The lake does measure approximately three kilometers in length and one kilometer in width, so it's not like a huge lake.

Definitely not huge, but it sounds like a good size yeah, and birch and pine trees. That sounds like glorious country.

Yeah, like it sounds it sounds great. So On Saturday, June fourth, nineteen sixty four, teenagers arrived at the so shore of Lake Bodom to enjoy a night of camping together. The group would consist of two couples. So we have sepo boys men, Anya Mackie, who went by her middle name to Linky, being one of the couple, and then Nils Gustavson and Mila Bjorklund being the other. So both boys were eighteen and the girls being fifteen.

Two things here a well done in that pronunciation, thank you, And two I'm pretty sure this is how every horror movie in the eighties.

Acause I never even thought of that. Shit.

Yeah, it's like some couples going out camping to this lake and the.

I never even thought of that. And honestly, this is one hundred and percent a horror story. All they were a movie or whatever you want to say.

There you go. All they need now is a cabin and the necronomicon and you have evil dead or you need now is like a camp with cabins and you have Friday the thirteenth, Like.

Wow, we're really set in the mood here for this thing. Oh my gosh. Okay, So they arrived at the lake on the boys motorcycles. They lean them up against two trees to park and went about pitching their light colored tent for the night. And so to describe I guess the tent, it's kind of one of those ones that has like a string in the middle and then the tents like.

How it was like those like triangular.

Strangle or once. Yeah, and it's very and it's light colored. It seemed like it was a bit small for four people, so they kind of had to like in there, you know. So Seppel was the oldest of the group. He had turned eighteen in January and was working as an apprentice electrician. Nils, who was best friends with Sepel since they were like around twelve years old or so, had turned eighteen less than a month before the camping trip, and he too was taking a similar path as Seppel as an electrician.

Eighteen with fifteen, I mean, like retrospect, Yeah, three years difference isn't very big that age.

At that age, three.

Years is a fairly big gap.

Yeah. So and then finally we had Mila. There was some speculation in the group maybe out there celebrating her birthday, as she was just two days shy of turning sixteen. So Tulinky and Mila were also best friends, so kind of cool like that they're all just like, I don't know, I love that. It's hard to have like good couple friends, right, Yeah.

Usually it's like couples are like the guy is friends with the guy because it's like the girls are friends and vice versa. It's like, not always do you find people who are actually all friends exactly.

And it just had worked out that way because one of the couple started dating and then introduced the other and then they kind of started deliking each other too.

Yeah, and there we went. So, yeah, you had to find a relationship between individuals and just have everyone be chill with it. Yeah, that's cool.

So after setting up camp, the two girls decided to go for a swim while the boys enjoyed some bevies, some bebes, some bevies. There's an entry in Mila's diary from evening where she wrote that Seppo and Nills were drunk, they were up at two am, and that Seppo had gone fishing. So from my understanding, the two girls didn't necessarily partake in drinking that night, and that the couples did go to bed around midnight, but Seppo got up in the middle of the night to go fishing, which

White night?

So, which is when the sun dips just below the horizon and the light has like a grayish quality. It's almost like someone dialed down the brightness for a few hours. So it explains why he might have been up maybe having trouble fishing or sorry, sleeping, because it wasn't totally dark out and that he could still see enough to go fishing.

Okay, gotcha? H Yeah, interesting.

So then the sun would rise again at four in the morning, and that's about that until some time between the hour of four and six am, when it's believed the incident or attack occurred. Oh shit, So the discovery isn't quite cut and dry. There's a few stories out there, but the most common one I went with, and it seems to go as follows.

You literally have me like on the edge of my seat right now. I'm so like, like, what the fuck happens here?

Oh it's not good, dude, it's not good. So at six am on June fifth, when the boys were out or sorry, two boys, this is separate boys. Six am June fifth, two boys were out early bird watching. From a distance, they could see the teen's campsite, which at this point was just a collapse tent, and they also claimed that they saw a blonde man walking away from the site. It isn't until sometime later, though, around eleven am,

Oh wow.

Now inside the collapse tent were the bodies of Sepo and Tulinky, with Mila's body being draped over the slashed and blood soaked tent. The killer had not injured the teens from inside the tent, but had attacked them from outside using a knife and an unidentified blunt object, possibly a rock.

Fuck. This is literally straight out of a horror movie.

So they what had happened apparently is like they cut to the strings of the tent, so the tent collapsed on the teens and then they went to town murdering them. Fuck like you would be like that. That is just horrifying to.

Think, no kidding.

So the murder weapons to this day have not been found. All four teenagers suffered serious blows to the head with said blunt object and had broken jaws. Both Sepo and Mala had been stabbed with Mala's injuries being significantly more brutal than the others. She was found undressed from the waist down and was stabbed fifteen times, with some of the wounds inflicted after she had already died.

Fuck.

Several items that should have been at the crime scene weren't, which puzzled detectives, including the keys to the boy's motorcycles, but the motorcycles themselves were still left behind. Wallets, watches, and items of clothing were also taken, and belongings were scattered around, including Nil's shoes, which were hidden approximately five hundred meters from the murder site. Under Like, I think it was like a rock or something. Okay, so as

I can I stop you for a second and kind of tell you where my mind is going. I think this is a vagrant of sort. I think it's some individual who lives out in the woods. It seems like he found an opportunity. Like maybe he not doesn't like people, not used to people. Maybe he literally grew up as a fucking child out in the bush alone. I don't know, but someone who's out in the bush and doesn't like people doesn't see them as people, just saw them as

Well and did I say that this is unsolved?

You did?

Okay? Yeah, So yeah, there are like four four theories suspects I suppose that will go through. So this is like totally a bend case.

Mm hmm. I love these ones where you get to like have.

Theories and you and your mind gets kind of wander and figure it out.

Yeah, you get to like talk about it and try and think and come up with possibilities and well what if? And yeah, it's it's intriguing.

Totally, Yeah, it absolutely is.

And the biggest thing is because it really gets you talking about the psyche of individuals because I mean sure, Okay, an individual does a heinous crime and they take someone's life, they go to court, and they're in jail. Most of the time, there's not much to really ask questions about as far as why. Sometimes they say it sometimes it's pretty cut and dry, or sometimes it's just they're.

Really weird, or they could be throwing you right off and saying yeah, like something completely.

But even still, the questions are much more narrow because you know who it is, you know the time, you know everything. When you don't know these things, you start you need to ask these broad questions to even begin to narrow it down. And that idea of these broad questions to try and understand what the fuck is crazy? Wild to me?

Well yeah, and even with this case, so, I mean, there isn't it even a ton known because well, three of the four victims are deceased and the one has a head had a head injury. And then as in boat to go through, like the police kind of watched it fucked up a bit here.

Okay, well let's hear how badly fucked up.

Okay, you're ready, I'm ready. So the police did not quarantine off the area, and they failed to take official records of their findings. To put it vaguely here.

What that's literally like those are your final steps.

That's like your jobs. So basically, once the police did leave, the crime scene wasn't blocked off whatsoever, so curious onlookers and careless campers were able to trample around and disturb the murder scene, further contamining the site and disturbing any pressor's evidence that may have been left behind from the initial search that is wild. Once the mistake was realized, they called the military inn to help, so invited more people onto the crime scene to assist with looking for

Yeah so, or potentially someone could have maybe taken it thinking it's like, oh someone lost this, I won if I can find the owner, not even thinking it's related to the crimes. Oh absolutely, yeah, Oh I found someone's keys. I wonder who these are.

And then to top it all off, many of the items which were collected were so soaked in the victim's blood, so the evidence that may have been left on them was destroyed.

Wow.

So like it was literally like what was collected? Really? You know what? I don't know, it was just from the beginning, just fucked for lack of better words.

Yeah.

So once Nils, who they had kind of put some pressure on, the sole survivor of the teens, have worked covered enough, he was interviewed by the police regarding the incident, like maybe he remembers some things. He remembered very little to nothing about the attack or much of the prior evening. He was drinking right, and he had suffered a head injury, so it's not to be completely unexpected, but it was

I would say that is most likely we are men.

Yes, I would say so too. So police allegedly interviewed around four thousand people.

Holy shit.

So though they watched the crime scene, they did seem to put in their efforts in regards to interviewing people. But that's a lot of people.

That seems absurd to say they interviewed four thousand. How could four thousand people, even I don't know skin to be correlated to this.

Well, I mean they're yeah, rumors maybe are spreading. Then they're just like chit chat and people even on their doorstep, like who knows. I don't know how they.

Got to that number, but still four thousand is a lot.

Yeah. So the lives of Sepo, Mila and Tulinky were celebrated on June thirteenth. Their white coffins were covered in sweet pea blossoms with the teens being buried together.

I like that.

I know. I'm just like, oh my gosh, Well they're all friends, I guess.

Right, hm, and they went through something incredibly tragic together.

So yeah, So that brings us to the list of potential suspects. Really like, there's not a lot that's known here, and there's four of them, So in no particular order, we'll start with Carl Jilstrom, also referred to as the Kiosk Keeper or kios Man, being that he ran a small wooden summer kios at Oodola Beach. I might be I've watched that story just a few hundred meters from where the teens were camping that night, and he also lived close by.

So did no one hear any fucking screams or anything?

Even the people that were out there and stuff. No one apparently heard anything. Wow, which I find very odd. That is because I was thinking, like, this was it's not that big.

Well yeah, and I was kind of almost thinking he was a little bit more secluded. But by the sounds of this guy's only like a few hundred meters away, you said, the.

Burdis guy, Yeah, he lived close by. Oh yeah, but I don't know if he would have been at his key.

Oh, I guess at the time.

Right, like it was very early in the morning.

Well, the only thing I was thinking was like the bird watchers, I'm like, did they not hear the screams? But then I was also like, well, they're probably a distracted and maybe you know, thinking maybe it was a bird off in the distance and that's what drew their attention to looking that way to the camp. Who knows, but you.

Would think that it would be it would have been very loud, I would think so for any people being murdered, sound.

Travels across water very well.

I know I kind of thought of that too, but I could nothing really ever said anything about that. It just said that, for example, the one little boy fisherman who was fourteen, didn't hear anything. So so many locals suspected Carl because he was known to be hostile towards campers. One local man, Ulf Johansson, he's a local author and councilman, would tell Finnland News website that no local would have

Holy shit, And.

He was territorial over his section of the lake shore and a person Johansson, being of similar age to the murdered kids, said Carl hit him in the back with a rock one day as he cycled along the road to the lake past Karl's kios.

Holy shit. Okay, So either in my mind we have our individual or we have someone who did it like him, knowing that it would be pinned on him.

Yeah, it gets there's more here. It gets worse with him. So Nils and Seppo apparently bought lemonade for from Karl on June fourth, the day they arrived at the lake. Police, however, found no evidence to link him to the murders and accepted his alibi, and his wife backed up his alibi, saying that he was at home asleep with her like

Well, what the fuck we have our guy?

I mean, it seems very I don't know.

The wife believes he did it. Yeah, falsified her alibi. He confess confessed in a drunken stupor, and the police shrugged it off because he was drunk. And yet when people are drunk, that's usually when they're the most honest.

He already had an aggressive tendency towards campers like he didn't seem like he was a happy man.

And some of the things that he did in the past link up to things that happened in this crowd. We have our fucking dude case closed. Podcasts done, ladies and gentlemen. You don't have to listen anymore.

I know that one's very convincing.

Hey, I'm sorry, but I'm sold your soul. I don't think that they.

Don't even want to hear any of the other ones.

I want to hear. But I'm almost guaranteeing you that I will not be have my mind changed.

Okay, Well, I should note though Karl was dark haired, he didn't have blond hair, but some have said it was him they saw back from the murder scene that night, and we're just too afraid to call the police about him. So I don't know that's what we have about Carl.

But some not cool Carl.

Oh my gosh, this is a fucking thing.

Yes it is.

Wow. Someone was like, you need to make a T shirt of I'd wear that shit. But then you run into someone in real life that same Carl and they'll be like, what do you mean.

You just look at them and just be like, not cool Carl, and you walk away.

And you will leave the situation.

This merch is going to happen. It's going to be a shirt that says not cool.

It would be pretty funny. Okay, So another suspect would be Hans ass Assmen. Is that how you would say that asthmen? Asmen is assmen or asthmen. We have a funeral home with the same kid. I think we've mentioned this sort it's a terrible name for a funeral home, but Asman's Funeral Asman's Funeral Chapel, which actually was featured on Ellen at one point. Oh seriously.

Yeah, they were going through some memes or something in a picture of it was brought up and she's like, Asman's Funeral Chapel taking care of you and the ter end.

Yeah, I mean it's quite the thing. So what actually they pronounced it ah Asman, But I think I don't know if Hans was Asthmen, I don't know. I'll probably go back and forth. Asmen's funnier.

We don't necessarily want to just say, hey, let's talk about the funny things in true crime.

Well, this is a suspect though, so we don't care about him.

Well, I mean, we're not going to assume he's guilty.

I suppose fine, I'll be nicer asthmen.

I'll call him well, whatever it is.

Okay. So Asmin was blonde. Okay, there's one thing.

Okay, I'm so old. This is the guy.

Yeah, you're changing your course here. So and he was thirty six years old, so fit the description the investigators had, and he also lived close to the lake. Something I haven't mentioned yet is that both Nils and oo Levy. I really hope I'm saying that right. The fourteen year old that was fishing went under hypnosis to see what they could remember, and they just described a man who had actually quite a resemblance to Asmen.

You didn't tell me that they had hiten. Now, so there's more.

There's a lot more information, Ben. You might have spoken way too fucking sick.

I thought you had given all the information on the case, and now it was just information on the individuals to come.

Okay, I like to sprinkle it all throughout you.

Okay, Okay, So I might change my mind then if more information.

Actually you might so. Oddly enough, Asmen had gone to the Helsinki hospital the day after the murders, too, suffering from stomach complaints. It was noted that his fingernails were quite dirty like basically black, His clothes were covered in dirt, and there also seemed to be a reddish stain appearing on them that a lot of people thought was blood. Hospital staff reported that Asmin was drunk and acting nervous

Is terrible, okay, but he does have an alibi.

Though he does have an alibi. So though Asman didn't necessarily have a motive to murder the teens, he has also been linked to other unsolved murders of people in Finland.

Oh shit so the murder.

Of seventeen year old Kulinki Sorry on the west coast of Finland in May nineteen fifty three, and a double killing of campers in North Karelia, Finland in July nineteen fifty nine. A series of popular books theorized that Asmen committed the Lake Boaha murders and these others, speculating that he may be a serial killer that's never been caught. He died in nineteen ninety eight. Now this is a side note, but I need to put it in his section.

The what funeral story?

Exactly like the funeral of the teens. Okay, So the identity of this mysterious man does remain unknown, but some do believe that it looks like Asmin, and sources say Asmen wasn't in attendance at the funeral though, And I can show you this photo. So this is the photo of the man. It's actually like it looks like so weird. That's the funeral photo of the man.

Okay, interesting, that's really hard to see. That's like a super old photo. And look it's very old.

And then I'm going to show you a photo of the drawing that was done and then what Asmen looks like.

That's that's pretty damn close.

That's it's like a pretty resemblance there.

Hey, there is, but to be fair, I mean it's not spot on. There are some features that are not quite there. Some features are there, but some aren't.

It's mostly in the eyes, I think, really right, Yeah, so I don't know that's technically I guess another suspect really could be so and I mean someone probably would have recognized if Asmond was at the funeral, right, but the source says that he was not in attendance.

But they don't know who that individual is.

No, huh no, very interesting and he stands out so much in that picture it almost just seems weird. It's off to me for some reason, not that I think it's photoshopped or anything. It just seems random in there. This person that doesn't that looks kind of off.

Well, I mean, he probably only really looks off because we're drawn to him, we're looking at him.

I guess there you go, yeah, oh that's there's a circle around him. He looks funny.

Yeah, there's a circle around that person that looks off.

But if you were just a look at the photo, you probably wouldn't have eve been appointed him O take exactly. Okay, so next suspect would be penty soanin there isn't a lot of information in regards to this suspect, other than he allegedly also confessed to the killings while he was serving time in prison for thefts. For thefts and violent crimes. He would have only been fifteen at the time of the murder, but was in the area at the time.

So that's all they have on him though, just that he confessed at one point.

Which people do false confess all the time when they do don't really understand. But yeah, but then I mean at the time of that murder, he was fifteen. Yeah, so like two there was two eighteen year olds and two fifteen year old girls. Like I can't see him. I mean, grant, I guess they would have been stuck in that tent.

Yeah, don't let the fifteen year old age get to you.

Two. This is just like I never want to go tenting again. I feel like that's horrific, Like you would have no chance, no chance I don't think not necessari Wow, it'd be pretty to get out of that alive, Nils did. But okay, so last, but not certainly least would be our last suspect. And do you have any guesses?

Is it some vagrant dude?

I think you should be able to guess this one?

Is it Nils himself?

Yeah? Yeah, that's literally my next nine Nills himself, He said it so end. He was actually arrested in two thousand and four, so forty four years after the murders.

Oh.

At the time, he was married with two children, living in a living a quiet life, and he was working as a bus driver. It was announced that they had re examined the tent and other surviving evidence using modern forensic techniques, and that based on the new forensic analysis, they declared the case solved, with the sole survivor, Nils,

Yeah, I don't exactly.

So they stated that his motive was sexual jealousy, that he'd been in a state of rage over Mila, and that his broken jaw was the result of a fight he got with Seppel over the girls. Being that as his girlfriend, Mila suffered the most significant injuries, this could make sense, being that the attack maybe was personal.

I don't. I don't think so. This is one of the farthest things from the truth in my mind. But keep going, I'll explain.

Why Nils's trials started on August fourth, two thousand and five. A key exhibit exhibit in the prosecution's case was Nil's shoes, which showed blood from the three murdered victims, but not a single drop of his own blood. I think it was initially believed that the killer had worn Nil's shoes or something and then hidden them, since they were found five hundred yards away from the tent, which is sort of odd. When Nils was found, he was on top

No, that there's some weight to this. I'm just listening. Is that it? Or is now?

Because now there's like the defense.

Okay, let's hear it.

So Nil's defense lawyer argued that the murders were the work of someone from the outside and that Nils would have been incapable of killing three people given the extent of his own injuries. So to refresh your memory, his injuries consisted of a broken jaw, head wound, concussion, and a deep gash to his face. The lawyer mentioned they were also too severe to have been self inflicted, because that was another thing. Maybe he just self inflicted his injuries.

Okay, am I good to go now? Okay, so there is some possibility of that being the case, but I think it's very very slim, and I'm going to tell you the main reason why I think this is not the possibility. So they say that he had a broken job, correct, correct, and then among that he had things that concussion, gash in his face, that sort of thing. Yeah, So the theory for it being him as the murderer, he would have had to have gotten in a fight over the

I mean, in one article too stated that his feet weren't dirty, so he's like running around hiding shit all over the place like I just or like would Seppo not have had like I mean, I guess Seppel could have got an injury to his hand if he had punched Nils right, but he could have got an injury to his hand during the actual attack too.

It not make sense to me one iota.

It does seem odd though that his shoes. The shoe situation does seem like a bit odd to me. It does, But I mean, someone murdering all these teens like this, I'm sure isn't quite all there and Gosh knows what they're doing, right mm.

Hmm, So sorry there was blood foulntain his shoes.

The shoe, Yeah, his shoes had all three of victims blood, but not on his own, gotcha.

Okay, so what about this is a theory because he was the one out fishing, right, No? No, oh, he wasn't. Oh okay.

Yeah, But then some people say there were some people that speculated too that maybe like Nils was trying to get like his girlfriend to have sex with him or whatever, and she didn't want to, and then Seppo had to like intervene, And so I don't know, I mean, no one's really gonna know what exactly happened.

No, but I don't think it was one of the kids themselves. I don't that one of them is responsible for this. I think it is an outside source.

Well, yeah, to all of a sudden just have that much aggression when you haven't really had any signs of that prior to does seem a lot. I mean, he was drinking and stuff, but I mean that I'm sure that wasn't the first time he was drinking.

Yeah, And there's some things that line up too much with Carl for it to be one of the kids.

For You're still team Carl.

I am still team Carl, but I'm not saying for sure it's Carl. Now, what I'm saying is that these kids were not from the area, right, because everyone said no one from the area would camp there because they know about Carl.

Yeah, but they weren't that far away, like I think they said that the drive took them half an hour or so.

Okay, but yes, it's not their specific areas. They're not necessarily familiar with the area because if they were, they wouldn't camp there yea.

And I don't think they had been there much prior to maybe once just to check it out. I think was all.

So if they don't know this information, they don't know things about like cutting the tent strings for example, Yes, someone who's setting up this scene to make it look like it was someone else who did it. Yeah, they would cut the ten strings to make it look like Carl did it if they knew he didn't know, why would he do something so specific? Then?

Yeah? Yeah, And I mean they did have that encounter with Carl early on, right, so I mean maybe they did something that pissed him off or something. Right.

Yeah, I'm still team Carl, but I'm not saying it was just Carl. I think he might have been in it with the Asthmin gay. I think they might have both done it. Maybe it was an accumulation. Maybe the one Asmin dude was spying on or whatever and saw Carl come over and cut the ten strings, run away laughing, and then Asmon was just like, I'm going to just finish the job.

Yeah, but as serial killer, that wouldn't be that fun for him.

Why not, because now it's going to be pinned on the other guy who already cut the strings, I guess. And then Carl could have been in a drunken stupor and woke up the next morning and saw it they were dead, and he's like, what the fuck did I do last night? I killed these kids?

Yeah, he could have legitimately believed that he did. I don't know. Holy heck.

Now that is my theory. Carl cut the ten strings, did his normal thing whatever, and then someone Asmin jumped on the opportunity, and then Carl believed he must have done it because what else would have happened. Yeah, that's my theory. It was it was the two of them. Maybe they were working together and it was planned, but maybe it was just the happenstance that that worked out. That way.

Yeah, Okay, Now, like my brain, I'm just like I don't know I was. I'm not one hundred percent sure that it wasn't Nils, to be honest, but I more so think that it wasn't him. But the Carl does make it makes sense, but it doesn't because, like I to, just like he kind of just like teased people more so like in an asshole way. He teased them, but he never had, like I don't know, just to tease someone and then go to that aggression. It's just like night.

Day, which is why I think he might have just cut the ten strings right way. Then the other guy took care of it, and yeah, Carl was like, what the fuck did I do?

I mean, yeah, because that other guy had murdered other campers at one point in time.

So that's my theory.

Okay. So in October seventh, two thousand and five, Nils was acquitted of all charges on the grounds that the prosecution evidence was inconclusive. They failed to show an appropriate motive for such an extreme crime, and given so much time had passed, the facts now seemed like impossible. He was awarded forty four nine hundred yuros. So about fifty eight thousand USD in damages for the mental suffering mental suffering, and was in the way that he was treated by

Yeah. And I think if he did do it, though me personally not saying he didn't, but I think there's just a very very small chance it was him. If he did do it, he is very lucky the police watched that scene.

Yeah. I mean, anyone that did this is very lucky.

Yep. So there's one more thing that doesn't add up to me with him though, because he had his head hit with a rock, presumably he had a concussion, right, Yeah, So he would have either had to have run around and hit all this stuff prior to and then hit his head with a rock and had the concussion and just lay there so they would have been able to find the rock rape beside him, or he hit him how self in the head with the rock and then ran around and did all this stuff, which is like

And then I mean, if he was just running around hiding all this stuff, I feel like some of the things would have been found.

Yeah, he probably wouldn't have been running that far.

Yeah, and considering none of those items were found, that's just very odd.

Yeah.

So yeah, I mean I feel like someone had to physically have taken them from the site.

I agree.

So the spot where the three finished teams were brutally murdered is still a campground today with the legend of the Botom murderer fearing the generation. Since being that this case is over sixty years old, it's unlikely you'll ever get solved. The perpetrator is most likely of old age or already deceased.

Damn, that is a wild case. My mind is going to mile a minute.

That case is also very much so compared often to the one, the very first one.

We did Diotlive Pass.

Yeah. Yeah, it's like a little bit similar and well it's reminiscent of the tent right, Yeah, and that it's kind of older, and it doesn't seem like there's any likelihood that it's going to get solved, But you know, you never know, you never know.

Well, there is a case known as the American version of the diatlot past.

Yeah, you had mentioned that to media.

The day, and I think I'm going to be doing that case here pretty quick. We've had it recommended to us a few times, so I think it's going to be coming down the pipe soon. I don't know how soon, but it will be one that I cover.

Yeah, so there we go.

Yeah, well done. That was definitely a case that is usually up my alley. I know, unexpected for you to cover it.

Well, it was supposed to be your week, So I was like, I'm gonna be ben.

It was supposed to be my week. What the hell?

Well, I mean doing the case, So I was like, I want to just be men today.

Was it supposed to be my week?

I think so, But that's okay.

I just I just did the Patreon episode.

Though you have you have definitely got me out of thick water sometimes.

So yeah, so I do appreciate it. And speaking of episodes over on Patreon, if you want to sign up on Patreon get those exclusive episodes that drop the last day of every month. You can head over there. You can get some behind the scenes you can take part in that little cool contest for running there too.

Well, yeah, we just dropped one on there that you that you did, and I think we only had hinted at that. So do you want to say what it was?

I can't remember what it was? What was it? Shit? What was it? I literally can't remember. I'm blanking. My mind has been everywhere with trying to get ready for this trip. Oh what was it? Do you remember? No, you don't remember either. How can you be giving me that much shit? Life of True Crime podcast? I don't remember. Yeah, well, we go through so many cases.

You wouldn't want us detecting or being detectives on a case.

Apparently, no kidding, we would watch that scene a heartbeat. Holy Anyways, the Patreon Oh well, that's right. It was Stephen Melkie the Blindfolded Death.

Oh gosh, yeah, that was yeah.

So if you want to go hear that episode, we just dropped it the other day. So, but if you don't, if you don't want to stand up for Patreon, that's totally cool. We appreciate you being here all the same. But if you do want to check out some other links all there in the description of this podcast, including Patreon website merch you name it, it's all down below.