Kelly Anne Bates - A Senseless Murder - podcast episode cover

Kelly Anne Bates - A Senseless Murder

Aug 01, 202342 minEp. 143
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Episode description

The story of Kelly Anne Bates is not for the faint of heart. She was a 16 year old girl who was in love, but placed her trust in the hands of the wrong person. That person was James Patterson Smith, and he would go on to do the unthinkable to Kelly.
Our other podcast: "FEARFUL" - https://open.spotify.com/show/56ajNkLiPoIat1V2KI9n5c?si=OyM38rdsSSyyzKAFUJpSywMUGS: https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/1475631101/stay-wicked-mug-largeMERCH:https://www.redbubble.com/people/wickedandgrim/shop?asc=uPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/wickedandgrim?fan_landing=trueYoutube: https://www.youtube.com/@wickedlifeFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/wickedandgrim/ Instagram:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wickedandgrim/?hl=enTwitter: https://twitter.com/wickedandgrimWebsite: https://www.wickedandgrim.com/
Resources:https://allthatsinteresting.com/kelly-anne-bateshttps://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11640755/Killer-jailed-life-torturing-lover-17-weeks-drowning-denied-parole.htmlhttps://murderpedia.org/male.S/s/smith-james-patterson.htm
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Transcript

Speaker 1

We have covered cases from around the world, and though most of them are extremely tragic, once in a while we come across a story that is so terrible it catches us completely off guard. Today, we have a case that is senseless, brutal, and downright horrific. This is the story of sixteen year old Kelly and Bates.

Speaker 2

My name is Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast. Warning.

Speaker 1

The following podcasts and material intended for a mature audience. Listener discretion is advised. Apparently Nicole wants to talk about chickens in our intro.

Speaker 2

I just said, what are we talking? I can't even talk in our intro, we are distracted by chickens. We're buying more chickens because we have a problem, and yeah, we were warned about this.

Speaker 1

Actually, chicken math is apparently a real thing. So I'm gonna go buy some more chickens tomorrow, which will be the same day you guys are listening to this episode. So yeah, that's cool, more chickens.

Speaker 2

Unfortunately, we did lose one chicken, which is very sad, and it was due to our dogs.

Speaker 1

M hm.

Speaker 2

So we lost one chicken, and we're replacing that one chicken with three chickens.

Speaker 1

Chicken math. That's how it works.

Speaker 2

Yeah, so there we go.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I'm going to jump straight into thanking our patrons though, let's do it. Okay, So yesterday or yeah, I guess by the time you guys listened to this, it'll be yesterday. New episode exclusive end of the month one showed up in Patreon.

Speaker 2

Yeah, what was it?

Speaker 1

Titled? The Great Teddy Bear Massacre? And trust me, it is as wild as it seems with that's awesome. Yeah, so I'm gonna go ahead and thank our patrons has signed up this past week. We have Gabrielle de Chezer,

Kristen Wells, DJ Jewle. Thank you DJ for actually telling us how to say your name over in Patreon, shot us a message appreciate that, Sarah Timberman and Alita Lanaire's right on, so they all get that access to not only this past exclusive episode, but all the exclusive episodes and all the extra content on their Yeah, boom boo.

Speaker 2

Yeah, it's a good place. It's fun time over there.

Speaker 1

It is. It's a I don't know, it's just a nice little place to.

Speaker 2

It's just chill and Yeah, it's a little our little supportive community. I love it.

Speaker 1

Our patrons are awesome.

Speaker 2

Yeah, but anyone that's listening to this is awesome.

Speaker 1

Of course. No, I wasn't excluding anyone.

Speaker 2

Well, no, I felt like I may be almost was, But I mean we have said it many times. We think everybody that is listening to this right at this very moment is awesome.

Speaker 1

I just I'm thinking of the Lego movie theme song.

Speaker 2

Everything is awesome, so awesome.

Speaker 1

Do we have anything else we really want to talk about today?

Speaker 2

Oh? I don't know.

Speaker 1

We've just been stupid basically this.

Speaker 2

On because I'm not looking forward to just.

Speaker 1

Drag it on. Uh, this is going to be a heavy case. In my research, this case generally goes alongside the story of Junco Faruda as well, so very brutal, very heavy. I will say this, the details are not as graphic in this case, but deafly similar occurrences.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, you did a last minute change. I was looking forward. I need to actually clarify because I feel like in the Patreon episode, I was like, yeah, I'm really looking forward to this next case, but then you did a last minute switch through and I'm not so much looking forward to this anymore.

Speaker 1

Yeah, Well, the one case I was going to do, I need more research time, So I'm going to be pushing that off a little while, keep that in the back burner, and keep chugging along in that research until it's ready. You know, simmer it up. Yeah, you know, like a marinera sauce, you gotta simmer is really important. You can't just rush that shit. You gotta simmer it. You gotta let it, you know, get its stuff all flowy and stuff. If you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2

I know what you're saying, but I was an interesting way of saying it.

Speaker 1

Simmer.

Speaker 2

I just felt like I need to clarify so that all of our patrons weren't like wow, Nicle is like.

Speaker 1

Like nuts, No, it's like.

Speaker 2

So pumped for this episode. What was wrong with ner?

Speaker 1

I think they understand. So I think we're good. Yeah, you ready to jump into this?

Speaker 2

Yeah, let's do it.

Speaker 1

It is the story, as I said of Kelly Ann Bates, it's one of brutality. I'll say that again. And it begins on April sixteenth, in nineteen ninety six, not that old really, No, So this is the Greater Manchester Police who received a call. This is OPRAH in the UK. They received a very distressing phone call from a man whose name was James Patterson Smith. Now James was Kelly's boyfriend. They lived together right and on the call he reported

a extremely tragic accidental drowning of his girlfriend. So, according to James, he had actually accidentally killed her during an argument when they were in the bath together. Oh wow, So at one point during said argument, she had accidentally inhaled some of the bath water and began drowning as a result. He then tried to assist and once she passed out, tried to resuscitate her, but he was unsuccess successful and she then deceased.

Speaker 2

So that was like the story that he was saying, is what happened?

Speaker 1

Yes, so this is what he reported to the police. And as I mentioned, Kelly was only sixteen when she died. So, however, what unfolded next was a horrifying revelation. James was very soon placed under arrest because the scene at his residence surpassed anything the authorities had in as far as expectations. You see, Kelly was not only found lifeless when they approached the scene. When they came to James's.

Speaker 2

House was expected, I'm assuming yes.

Speaker 1

But the house was smeared with her blood and she bore dozens of appalling injuries across her body from a drowning, from an apparent drowning.

Speaker 2

Okay, well, that is definitely not the scene you would be expecting.

Speaker 1

No, when authorities came and saw this, they immediately realize this was not an accident. What they were looking at, what they were standing in was a murder scene.

Speaker 2

Well, and was this guy like like unwell for literally kind of like just inviting them here to this where he's showcasing that he is obviously really disturbing.

Speaker 1

I think he might have just thought he'd just get away with it. How, I don't know. I don't know. I don't understand his thought process there either. I tried to contemplate that several times on my own, and I cannot. I can't fathom a single instance where he thought he would get away with it or where it makes sense. I just can't.

Speaker 2

M m.

Speaker 1

Yeah, unless it was just sheer panic and he's like I got a call for help because maybe.

Speaker 2

He realized what he'd.

Speaker 1

Yeah, we got to get into the story, Okay, yeah, we do, and before we dive too deep into all these details. Let's take a step back and talk about the relationship between James and Kelly, because it's very important. Okay, So it all starts one day when Margaret Bates was returning home to find her sixteen year old daughter Kelly standing in the kitchen. Now, unbeknownst to Margaret, Kelly had

brought home her boyfriend, James Patterson Smith. So she brought him home for the first time to kind of, hey, meet the family, right, and this was the first time that she was hearing anything about said boyfriend. Now, this, of course doesn't sound too horrific. I mean, unless you have a fear of realizing your children are actually inevitably growing up and going to start dating and moving out

and all this sort of stuff. You know, they're not just innocent children, right, unless that's your fearing, This seems like a harmless situation.

Speaker 2

But yeah, because at sixteen, I imagine quite a few people like they start having significant others ish, right.

Speaker 1

Yeah, they start dating, entering the dating pool and stuff. I'm pretty sure this is not an abnormal thing for someone that age. Now to Margaret, though, she did have a bit of a horrifying situation. She had the sound of footsteps coming down the hall, and she turned around to see James standing there, and her horrifying situation was this. Her jaw immediately dropped and to put it in her own words, quote, the hairs on the back of my neck went up.

Speaker 2

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1

Seriously, Yes, h James was not just a boy that her daughter was dating. In fact, he wasn't just an older boy. As Kelly had so put it. She was standing in front of a man who had some grays in his hairs and some crows feet on the corner of his eye. Kelly had informed her mother that James was in fact thirty two years old.

Speaker 2

Okay, which I mean at thirty two you'd have grays and you'd had crow's feet.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I do.

Speaker 2

Yeah, but she's sixteen sixteen? I forgot how y, yes, holy.

Speaker 1

Shit, Okay, that just you're like, oh, yeah, you can have some grips shit at thirty two. What's wrong with that? He's dating someone sixteen.

Speaker 2

I missed the point, like that's actually illegal.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, that's statutory rate.

Speaker 2

Yeah, okay, sorry, I missed the Uh. I don't know what the word is there, but the rising action, I don't know.

Speaker 1

You the info. In a later interview, Margaret would actually admit to having an unsettling urge in that moment, to picking up a knife that was sitting in the kitchen and stabbing James in the back right then, right there. Really, Hey, yes, she had this immediate urge when she saw him. Now, little did she know that her motherly instincts would prove be a tragic prediction for things to come.

Speaker 2

Wow, that is so bizarre. I actually can't really ever recall a moment where you've met someone and you get that kind of feeling, you.

Speaker 1

Know, Yeah, it's uh, it's not something I can say I've really had where I'm like, oh, I want to stab his bitch in the back. Well, it's not something I've had.

Speaker 2

Even the hairs kind of raising on your neck like that, that's like really alarming.

Speaker 1

Hey, that's intense. That's very intense. So, I mean, Margaret's just standing there staring in disbelief at this man that her sixteen year old daughter has now brought home, and she had no idea lies in the history that had actually already been behind them and their relationship, because James wasn't thirty two years old. That was a lie he was actually forty eight years old.

Speaker 2

Oh shit, forty eight.

Speaker 1

Forty eight years old seeing a sixteen year old? Oh my god, yeah, try and swallow that fucking pill.

Speaker 2

Like, could that almost be her grandfather?

Speaker 1

I mean technically technically that you probably could.

Speaker 2

Yeah, she's really disturbing.

Speaker 1

Yeah, So of course the two decided to lie about the age to kind of draw back a bit, to try and like soften the blow in any potential backlas.

Speaker 2

Oh did she know that he was actually forty eight years old?

Speaker 1

No, okay, thirty two. They told her thirty two, so that's what she believed.

Speaker 2

No, sorry, the daughter, Oh, the daughter knew that he was actually forty eight years old. Correct, seriously correct? Okay. I mean I'm not super opposed to like age gaps and stuff in relationships because I've known some people that have age gaps and it seems like it can work. But that is a bit much.

Speaker 1

This is not an age gap. This, as I said, is statia ory rape. You are a minor. Yeah, and this dude is like almost a decade off getting a fucking senior citizen discount. Like what the fuck? Well, maybe a little more than a decade, but still, you know what, I mean, so, yeah, it was quite the shocking situation to be putting in, being put in when your daughter's just like, oh, yeah, here's my boyfriend. He's thirty two. So the daughter knows he's actually forty eight, but the family,

the parents think thirty two. Now, that's not the end of their lie. They had also not just recently started dating. They started dating when Kelly was fourteen and James was forty six.

Speaker 3

Oh okay, yeah, this guy, okay, he has to be like manipulating her because something this that is just like not right.

Speaker 1

Oh yeah, there's definite manipulation going on.

Speaker 2

Fourteen and forty eight.

Speaker 1

Correct, fourteen and forty six when they okay, still I'm not blaming Kelly one fucking iota. Yeah, like she is wholeheartedly being manipulated. Yeah, this sick fuck.

Speaker 2

Because he would know better, and she is just like young.

Speaker 1

Yeah, she's just like, oh, this older guy is interested in me. It seems so cool. He seems so nice, he likes me. Maybe it's like because I'm acting older than girls my age sort of thing, and apparently I think that's like a line these kind of fucking sickos do. Yeah, holy okay, And so rightfully. So, Kelly's parents were not impressed even with the idea of him being thirty two, let alone, if they actually knew he.

Speaker 2

Was forty eight, they would have lost their fucking mind.

Speaker 1

You bet. But still, against their better judgment, they decided to let their daughter continue the relationship after all, she was happy.

Speaker 2

Well that's hard, though, because the thing is, if they would have liked for it, forbid her from seeing him, I mean, she could have still found a way and then she's sneaking around exactly.

Speaker 1

So that's so hard exactly. That was kind of the stipulation with this relationship is that there still needs to be communication and like things need to be open and what's happening and yeah, so the parents were like, we're not going to stop this because I don't think we can, but like, there's gonna be some fucking ground rules here. Yeah,

So I can't knock the parents for that. I totally understand. However, I mean, and I know a lot of people disagree with this too, because they're like they not everyone can totally get it. But the idea of hey, maybe reporting someone like that to the police, it's not a bad idea.

Speaker 2

Oh well, yeah, I mean, but really, they're probably thinking that their relationship with their daughter is on the line, right.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2

So it's it's really really tough. But also that oh, I don't know, that's it's it's too much.

Speaker 1

It is, but we digress a little bit. Let's keep moving on here. It would be November nineteen ninety five, not long after this initial meeting in the kitchen, that Kelly would take the steps to move in with her

significant other and at the time unemployed James. Now, as I said, although her parents are skeptical of the relationship, they're also skeptical of this decision, but they agreed in the conditions that she would keep in regular contact, so it's like, you come see us, we talk lots, all that sort of stuff kind of so they can still be a parent.

Speaker 2

I don't even know what to say to that, because that the moving in thing.

Speaker 1

That's that's tough.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah, So, regardless of the situation, she went and moved in with them, and regardless of the deal, the following months, Kelly's once outgoing demeanor and keeping in touch with her parents slowly changed, and she was much more quieter and with drawn, and the parents were hearing from her less and less. So during a rare visit, her parents actually noticed something some bruises on her arms. Oh geez, which

we're signaling some more worrisome events in the future. There were a lot of interesting signs in this case, not to say that people need to be aware of these signs, and it's like, hey, you should have seen and you should have been able to know. Not blaming anyone in that say that sense whatsoever, just saying looking on it in a hindsight perspective, it's like, holy fuck, there's all these little tiny things.

Speaker 2

Well, even when you said that she was kind of not as outgoing and stuff anymore, Like what just came to my mind. It was like he was like dimming her light. Yeah, which is so sad.

Speaker 1

That's a very interesting way of putting it. Yeah, So let's talk a little bit about James. Prior to his involvement with the teenage Kelly, he had a rather troublesome history regarding assaulting women that he lived with.

Speaker 2

Awesome, So this guy's a fucking winner and a half.

Speaker 1

Okay, he's a piece of shit, full on piece of shit. He had accusations of physical violence and assault, one that actually marked the end of his first marriage after ten years together in nineteen eighty so, then between nineteen eighty and nineteen eighty two, while still technically married, he would have an affair with a twenty year old named Tina Watson, who he reportedly used as a quote punching bag, yes, deserving violence that didn't cease while she was pregnant as well.

Speaker 2

Oh gosh, okay yep.

Speaker 1

At one point he tried to strangle and drown her while she was in the bath. Wow, okay, so real quick here before you say something, because I know you're about to. Luckily for her. However, she did manage to get away from James and the whole abusive relationship that she found herself in. So that's fantastic. She got out of that relationship and she was sure she and the child were safe.

Speaker 2

That's good.

Speaker 1

Yeah, you were going to say something.

Speaker 2

I wasn't.

Speaker 1

Actually, Oh no, you're just just gasping with sho.

Speaker 2

I like, my eyeballs are just like bulging out of my head here.

Speaker 1

From here, James would find himself in another relationship, in another statutory rape relationship in fact, with a fifteen year old whose name I have chosen to leave out of this podcast. She also found James to be very physically abusive towards her, and in one attack, he held her face underwater in the kitchen sink in an attempt to

drown her. Luckily she survived. Wow. In nineteen ninety three, James began his relationship with fourteen year old Kelly, which brings us up to date where authorities were called and found Kelly's lifeless body and James was apprehended.

Speaker 2

Oh my gosh, please tell me that this guy is just going to be locked away for the rest of his life.

Speaker 1

I don't think you're gonna be happy with the results of this case.

Speaker 2

You're fucking serious.

Speaker 1

I'm just gonna say that.

Speaker 2

Wow, I will.

Speaker 1

Rage, I will rage.

Speaker 2

This tiny house will be turned upside down.

Speaker 1

I might be fucking found drowned after this podcast. So the scene authorities arrived at once James called them was not something authorities were able to stomach very easy. They had found sixteen year old Kelly naked in the bedroom floor. Her blood was found smudged and smeared to some degree in every single room of the house, which was one

of the first indications that something just wasn't right. Her body of course was another There were several physical injuries that covered Kelly's body that did not line up with a simple drowning, and when taken in for examination and autopsy, that's when the true realization regarding the extent of the situation came to light.

Speaker 2

Well, I mean he honestly, it doesn't make sense, but it makes sense that he's gotten away with everything prior to right that he now he's just like up leveling it. Yeah, But to think that he would get away with something where there's blood in every room, Yes, that like you almost have to wonder if he's gone off the deep end here.

Speaker 1

I think he's been getting away with things and I think he had. I think it's a power trip thing. We've covered cases before in episodes where guys like get off on this sort of shit, right, Like it's a power trip, like I can make you do what I want or whatever, And I think that's what it is here. Yeah, let's go into some more details with regarding her autopsy year because I don't want to be giving away too many things.

So the examination of her body revealed over one hundred and fifty separate physical injuries to Kelly, and they were able to identify that these injuries were occurring over the course of the last month of her life. So for an entirety of a month she.

Speaker 2

Was enduring the shit.

Speaker 1

Yes. So also you have to think of the fact that at the age sixteen you bounce back and heal pretty quick. So how many bruises and such would have healed over the course of a month as well?

Speaker 2

That's true, yep.

Speaker 1

So regarding that last month of her life as well, they were able to determine that she was kept bound in the house for the entirety of it. At times she would have been tied up by her hair even two items ch as chairs or radiators. Other times she was tied and bound around the neck. But one way or another she would have been bound for the remainder of.

Speaker 2

That monthly, a whole entire month.

Speaker 1

Yes. So A man by the name of William Lawler, the Home Office pathologist who examined Kelly's remains, had this to say, quote, in my career, I have examined almost six hundred victims of homicide, but I have never come across injuries so extensive that right there paints a brutal picture. He's saying, I've never.

Speaker 2

Seen this like, that's like a one in six hundred, yeah, and.

Speaker 1

This is like way above all these other six hundred. It's like, oh, it's like it's close for the worst, and it's.

Speaker 2

Like, no, it's my far the worst.

Speaker 1

Yeah. So some of the injuries that had found on Kelly and her body included the following scalding to her left butt, cheek, and left leg, burns on her thighs caused by the application of a hot iron, a fractured arm, multiple stab wounds caused by knives, forks, and scissors, stab wounds inside of her mouth, crush injuries to both of her hands, mutilation of her ears, nose, eyebrows, mouth lips, genitalia wounds caused by a spade, a shovel, spade, and

pruny shears. Both of her eyes had been gouged out. Later, stab wounds were found in the empty sockets of her eyes, and she was partially scalped. The pathologist was able to determine that Kelly endured her eyes being gouged out, quote not less than five days and more than three weeks before her death, so she lived at least five days after having her eyes gouged from her head. They were also able to find that she had been starved in

the weeks leading to her death. She had lost approximately twenty kilograms twenty kilograms, not pounds, that would be equivalent to forty four pounds. The starvation would have also included not being allowed to drink water or any other fluids for several days she endured. Absolute hell, holy shit, this poor fucking girl.

Speaker 2

Yeah. I cannot even believe that someone would do something like that to another human being, right, like wow, And gosh, you gave even some details I had. I was wondering about the eyes, Like I was like, oh, maybe that happened like after she died, but nope.

Speaker 1

Nope, prior to days prior to wow.

Speaker 2

Wow, So like was this literally his just his motive the whole entire time?

Speaker 1

I don't know.

Speaker 2

Maybe, like that is so disturbing. I am just like shook out of my fucking mind.

Speaker 1

Yeah, see what I mean? How this one gets kind of like total long in the same sort of lines

as Junco quite often. Yeah, because when I was researching Junco, I don't believe I've ever run across this case, but when I was researching this case, they seem to go hand in hand very often when I was researching articles, a lot of them be like after you're done reading this article, at the bottom, it's like, you may enjoy this article or whatever, and then it link would link to like a Junco one or something.

Speaker 2

No, thank you.

Speaker 1

Yeah, So I can't believe what this This young woman was put through absolute hell for someone that she thought was he was there for her and love.

Speaker 2

Yeah, like so messed so messed.

Speaker 1

Up, so fucked up. Which it almost makes this one worse than Junko in the fact on who was the perpetrator. This was supposed to be someone she could love, trust, yeah, live with. She chose to move in with this person, well that count me wrong like Junko, Like I'm not comparing cases by any means, Like Junko was absolutely horrifying too. But this was supposed to be someone that Kelly could have trusted.

Speaker 2

Because there was a bunch of lead up to this, Like it was just I mean the intention of this at the beginning, you know, he probably had this endgame and which is really disturbing, Like it I kind of almost went on longer, you know what I'm trying to say here, Yeah, like which, yeah, wow, that this guy is a.

Speaker 1

Like is just an absolute fucking mom Say, I.

Speaker 2

Need a word worse than monster because this is really disturbing.

Speaker 1

Yeah. So, the trial for James began shortly thereafter, and the prosecution meticulously presented the details of the torture that Kelly would have endured to the jury, many of which after the trial would have to seek counseling for the details. In this case, the prosecutor in the trial, Peter Openshaw, had this to say, in the case, it was as if he deliberately disfigured her, causing her the utmost pain, distress, and degradation. The injuries were not the result of one

sudden eruption of violence. They must have been caused over a long period that were so extensive and so terrible that the defendant must have deliberately and systematically tortured the girl. And I think he's absolutely right in that statement. So Kelly's official death was indeed drowning, but not before she received the brutal beating in the head with a shower head.

Speaker 2

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1

Peter Openshaw, the UH prosecutor, also remarked her death must have been a merciful end to her torture.

Speaker 2

Huh. Well, I mean at that point, like she's probably just like begging for that, yes, And.

Speaker 1

I think that's kind of what he means, is that she was almost thankful for that end, which is so terrifying to think about.

Speaker 2

Holy well, and then the other thing because yeah, for this literally to be going on for like that long of a span is what I mean, because yeah, like the one said, like it wasn't just a fit of rage, like this went on for a really long time.

Speaker 1

It did over approximately the course of a month.

Speaker 2

Yeah, And I still can't get over now that we've heard like what her body look like, that he actually phoned the police to call this in and didn't like go about hiding it, Like I'm like.

Speaker 1

That's fucked yep.

Speaker 2

So it's almost like he wanted to be caught or.

Speaker 1

Something maybe or he was just so confident because he's been getting away with it this whole time that oh, yeah, they'll just believe me. And that's that. But I do think that, like when I say that there was blood throughout the house, I actually couldn't find detail on how much blood. My assumption is that the blood was not hey, spatter from a kill. It's simply just there's blood traced throughout the house from over the course.

Speaker 2

Of the entire month of being tortured.

Speaker 1

Yes, like a fingerprint here, a drop there, Yeah, a smudge there, like that sort of stuff. A cloth being soaked in blood, thrown in the hamper of the laundry, things like that.

Speaker 2

Yeah, because honestly, when you first mentioned that, I was kind of thinking like that. They that he went around and smeared it.

Speaker 1

But yeah, yeah, So throughout the trial, some of the women who had also suffered abuse to the hems of James bravely came forward and they helped painted a very disturbing picture of a misogynistic man consumed by jealousy who would resort to violence to exert control over others. So hats off to them for standing. Oh yeah, because that would have been difficult.

Speaker 2

No kidding, that's so good that they were there.

Speaker 1

Yeah. James and his defense team, however, attempted to cast him as the victim. Yeah that was my reaction to, just fucking laugh, claiming basically that Kelly's actions had driven him to commit the act. He said, quote, she put me through hell, constantly provoking me.

Speaker 2

She was sixteen years old, You motherfucker. Yeah, sixteen years old, and I don't.

Speaker 1

Give a shit if someone's provoking you. You don't provoke. You don't get provoked to torture someone for a fucking month.

Speaker 2

Like nothing would provoke that could provoke that. No, in my opinion, just leave.

Speaker 1

Then, exactly so, I mean even going as far as to suggesting that some of her injuries were actually self inflicted to tarnish his image and name. So yeah, that's what he's going on saying, I'm the victim. She's doing this to me, and she provoked me into doing this. The jury luckily saw right fucking through this manipulation tactic. Oh yeah, and they swiftly came with a verdict finding him guilty on murder of Kelly and Bates.

Speaker 2

They probably just like low, like just hated him. Yes, Like I don't think if I was on that jury, Like, I don't even think I would be able to look at him.

Speaker 1

Yeah, just gross, I agree. So on November nineteenth, nineteen ninety seven, James was sentenced to a minimum of twenty years in prison, and he currently sits there to this day. And this is where I don't think you'll be happy, because I'm not happy twenty years is not enough.

Speaker 2

Yeah, how on earth is it only twenty years?

Speaker 1

Yeah? Not enough? I mean it minimum. But still he could get out in four years.

Speaker 2

And he would be how old, like in his sixties or early seventies or something.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I'd be like sixty eight or sixty nine something like that.

Speaker 2

Oh my gosh, so like enough time to do this again and he would Yeah, like there is no way that that man should be like outside of prison.

Speaker 1

No life. And then some because this wasn't just like a manslaughter or some like fucking murder. No, he systematically tortured and fucking murdered her, Yeah, brutally, not to mention any sort of statutory rape charges that should have been applied, which clearly weren't.

Speaker 2

You know, these some I just can't understand sometimes the sentencing because like the last case we did right where they had murdered their basically, yeah, they got like years upon years. Yeah, and like I mean that was terrible too, but like this is worse. Really, I'm not like comparing them, but like what he did, like he should never well beyond.

Speaker 1

They got more for murder. This is murder, torture, stay rate much more.

Speaker 2

There's way there's more like charges really, but it's less way less time.

Speaker 1

Now. I do understand there's different jurisdictions, there's different legislations for different areas and states and all this sort of stuff. This is over in the UK as well, so I mean this is a completely different country at that. But still it should be life. He should be behind bars for fucking life.

Speaker 2

Yeah, like never getting out questions asked.

Speaker 1

But he could potentially walk free in a few years.

Speaker 2

Oh that is so disturbing.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that's one of the worst parts about this to me is that he could go free and not to mention that in the trial. He's like, oh, yeah, it's her fault. So that's telling me, that's telling me right there, He's not learning a fucking thing. He wasn't remorseful.

Speaker 2

No, he probably wants to do again.

Speaker 1

Probably so anyways, the murder of Kelly and Bates remains one of the most horrifying crimes in British history, and Margaret Bates, Kelly's mother, is still haunted by that moment in the kitchen where she first encountered him, constantly flashing back to the moment where she had an instinct to end his life right then and there, and she wonders if it kind of might have been some sort of sixth sense warninger of the tragedy that would come to her daughter later on.

Speaker 2

Oh that is so sad. It is Oh man, yikes.

Speaker 1

And that's the story of Kelly and Bates.

Speaker 2

Wow, that is quite the story.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it is so.

Speaker 2

I guess you need to leave for a bit so I can destroy this tiny house with range.

Speaker 1

She's just a fit of fucking rage.

Speaker 2

Wow. Wow. Yeah, that would have been a tough one of research.

Speaker 1

It was. I kind of didn't want to. I didn't I don't know. I don't know how to say this. I didn't really want to go into details on this one too much. I'm kind of glad that I didn't go in so much. I'm sure I'm sitting here saying like, oh, you know what, the details were harder to find. I think I said that at the beginning of the episode. I'm not sure if the details were harder to find her if I just didn't want to find them.

Speaker 2

Well, honestly, I feel like you gave us enough detail.

Speaker 1

I think so too.

Speaker 2

That is enough.

Speaker 1

I don't know it really we want anymore. No, I certainly don't. I feel so bad for this poor girl.

Speaker 2

Well, yeah, like that is so young, and this guy, the fact that he could be kind of getting out of jail is like that's haunting. That's so haunting.

Speaker 1

I hope he doesn't.

Speaker 2

Well honest, oh, I can't. I shouldn't say this.

Speaker 1

Never mind what No, I can't say, you have to say it now.

Speaker 2

Well, I was just like, if that mom is a lot for him to get out of jail, like I would, I would go and do unthinkable things.

Speaker 1

Which I mean, I'm sure that mom is thinking the same thing. Yeah, but two wrongs don't make the right. I'm gonna say that. I'm not gonna say I disagree with you, but I will say two wrongs don't make a right.

Speaker 2

Well, I mean, yeah, he would need to have like identity change and all that stuff, because, like I, I honestly can't believe that he's even surviving in jail, to be honest.

Speaker 1

Yeah, actually I'm actually surprised.

Speaker 2

When you think about it.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, but I hope he fucking rots. I hope he never gets out. I hope he fucking rots and fuck him.

Speaker 2

Like, uh, I mean there's the potential. I guess that, Like, there's rehabilitation programs and stuff too, But generally it's like you realize what you did is wrong, and then I feel like those people are more so people that we can rehabilitate and like have back into the world.

Speaker 1

And rehabilitation is one thing. Back into the world is another. I don't give a shit if he's rehabilitated or not. He deserves to be behind.

Speaker 2

Bars, oh forever. Yeah, he does.

Speaker 1

He can live the best life behind bars. He can be rehabilitated, he can be a born again Christian, he can start crocheting and giving hats to new infants being born in the local hospital. Fantastic. Good for him. I hope that's how he's living, and I hope that's how he stays living behind bars doing that.

Speaker 2

Yeah, because he made a decision that was very much so. There was many opportunities, in many different victims that he could have walked away or changed himself, right, Yeah, but he chose repeatedly not to, and so why on earth would we be giving him another chance?

Speaker 1

Yeah? And child predators are are some people that I just have no sympathy for. I have the sympathy for the understanding that some people are born certain ways, but you cross the line the moment you act on that, you know it's not fucking right. Don't you fucking dare go after a child? Man, don't you fucking dare. Yeah, the moment you do, I don't give a shit about you. I'm sorry.

Speaker 2

Well, yeah, I mean she she had like a future, like they all had futures, and like I said earlier, like he just dimmed their light and hers, he dimmed it completely. Yeah it's gone.

Speaker 1

Yeah, so fuck you, James. That's all I'm gonna say.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Brutal, just brutal.

Speaker 1

Yeah. I don't even know what to say after this one. Well, I like stunned myself today. Honestly, I'm just like mad at myself and mad at this fucking guy, and mad at this case.

Speaker 2

And I feel like you need like a hug.

Speaker 1

I kind of fucking do need a hug.

Speaker 2

You can walk you.

Speaker 1

Okay, we're gonna turn this off when Nichole's gonna go give me a fucking because I need it.

Speaker 2

And you get to pick up new chickens some more.

Speaker 1

I get to pick up new chickens.

Speaker 2

That's something to look for.

Speaker 1

Maybe we'll talk to our patrons and we'll help them name name these ones.

Speaker 2

Oh that's kind of a fun idea. Actually love that.

Speaker 1

Although although I will stipulate this right now, I do not want to name them after serial killers.

Speaker 2

Oh no, no, no, like there these are like, okay, these chickens bring me so much fucking joy. It is actually very much. But like I'm low key obsessed with them, and like I don't want to be looking at them, like and they're bad people or bad chickens, Like I.

Speaker 1

Just do know that. Like some people are like, oh hey, name it, name it Dahmer or something like that. It's like, no, I just don't want to go there. Fuck those people, you know. I mean, sure, we get entertained by some of these stories. I get that, but uh yeah.

Speaker 2

Our chickens have to be joyous.

Speaker 1

Names exactly, joyous names for sure.

Speaker 2

Is that a word?

Speaker 1

Joyous? Yeah?

Speaker 2

Okay, yeah, there you go. Yeah, well done, I mean yeah, Now you can take a little bit of a break.

Speaker 1

Breather, Yeah, breathe if you guys want to not get a breather and check out more of our stuff. Link is all down in the description below. We got YouTube, we got Instagram, we got Patreon. All of it's down there. Go check it out. If you want to give us a review that would mean the world to us. Those reviews go a long way, so please do that and Nicole's gonna go give me a big old hug. So until next episode, Stay WEEKEN

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