Katie’s Revenge

Hey, Wicked Fam, I already fucked that up. Hey Wicked Fam.

I'm Nicole, I'm Ben, And you're listening to Wicked and Grim, a true gram podcast. Good morning following podcast.

At your audience listener, just watch well, hello, hello, Hello, Happy Tuesday. If you're listening to this on Tuesday.

And if you're listening to any other day of the week, happy any other day of the week.

There you go. We are like hair straight back around here.

Oh my god. I feel like we talk about that every podcast, but well, it just its.

Like our life right now because we're listening our hosts. This week, the tie home gets delivered. This week, I'm traveling to Victoria to shoot a wedding. It's just like it's a busy.

Week and I'm on a frantic treasure hunt.

Oh yeah, you should have been doing that today.

I should have long story, shortly work put out a treasure hunt for seven grand hidden in a cash out in the bush.

So yeah, and you're not on it, Like what the heck?

Well, I think tomorrow after work, I'm going to go look for it because I think I solve the riddle.

Yeah, but I have a feeling that it could already be gone, I don't know.

I work with a lot of people who are not known for their IQ, so I think I might be golden.

No comment, it's true, no comment.

I work in an industry where post secondary isn't a requirement. In fact, high school graduation isn't a requirement.

Oh really yeah, Oh I didn't even know that. I didn't know that.

Actually, well, I mean for majority of them, they want it just for the sake of it. But yeah, my specific work site does not require high school graduation.

But you've graduated high school. Just to clarify, I have you, thank god, Yeah, and I have post secondary. Just to let everyone know you do. Actually, yeah, we both do.

Yeah we're smarties. Boom.

Okay, okay, this is so exciting, you know, it's like really shit.

Also, I just want to say, you guys are too good on Instagram.

Oh I know, Okay, one day we're going to win one day.

One day I thought we had them for sure.

I did, and I knew for sure. I was like, that's too easy.

Well, I was like, okay, there might be one or two people who like know this case specifically, and they'll guess it. Maybe if we're lucky or if they're lucky. But clearly this is more of a like a well known thing or something. I don't know. I never heard boom boom boom. Everyone just knew.

I know. But I mean, like they're true crime junkies, Like, yeah, that's the thing.

I feel like we're the amateurs, even though sometimes like.

I know what that is and I was like, really, I just learned about it the other day.

Yeah, well either, but anyway, we're gonna make it harder, maybe even blurring photos.

Out from here on out.

And now I know a lot about this case.

Yeah, a lot, a lot.

So you ready?

Wait?

No, no yet, oh right.

Now, I'm ready.

Now it's official. Now we can officially get our shit together out here.

I'm going white girl today with white Claw.

Yeah, Mango. The cherry is the best though, no it's not. I think cherry is the best. Okay. So this is the story of Caitlin Coleman. But she went by Katie. Katie, Katie Coleman.

Let's hear about Katie Katie. What's your story?

Oh? Man, you know what, it's just shitty, But that's okay.

Well I kind of know a little bit. And yeah, but.

It was January twenty fifth, two thousand and five, and it started out just like any other day.

That's good. It's good, sun was shining maybe.

But you know when someone says it started out just like any other day, you can't know.

Yeah, it's shit. You know the rest is going down here?

Am I right? So Katie woke up pad breakfast prepared for her day, and her father John Okay, so I already fucked this upisode to go, had breakfast prepared her mom Angela okay, and then her father John drove her to school.

Okay. That's a huge difference there.

Yeah, but I mean she's still prepared for her day. I mean, I just I missed that her mom made her lovely breakfast, and that just shows that her mom's probably pretty cool.

Yeah, cheers to those moms out there doing that hard work for those kids.

Exactly, they work hard.

Those dads too, don't forget that.

Well, the dad drove to school exactly. There you go, all those parents. Yeah, she attended Crawl. Oh, we already went over this Crowther Crotherson, Crowthersville.

It was Brother by the Sea, Brother Brother.

See. I listened to it like I'm pronounced, and then I'm like reading it on I already forgot Okay, Crothersville, Crothersville, Brothersville nailed it. Now, you guys are all gonna remember. So she attended Crothersville Elementary School in Indiana. Once school was out for the day, Katie headed home as per usual, this was around three o'clock. She arrived home to find her mom busy preparing dinner.

Good mom doing the good mom stuff.

And breakfast now making dinner like cool And this makes her sound like an absolute little angel, but she wanted to help her mom out, so she volunteered to walk to the nearby store to pick up some toilet paper because the family was like pretty much out of ass white.

She's a little angel, they're out of ass white. Way to just drink that?

I don't know, Well, like what a sweet little.

Girl, right, definitely, I can just picture now, he mom, do you need me to go to the store to pick up some ass?

Why she didn't say ass white.

I'm sure she did. I'm picturing it. She did.

She said it, And I don't even think I actually mentioned this in here. But she's like ten, she's ten years old. I don't think I said that. So she's this little bean, you know, yeah, her mom agreed and gave her some money. The store she was heading to was about a block and a half away, and Katie did do this trek often. It wasn't like her first role, She's done it before. And I wanted to mention that the town they lived in, Bruthersville, was a small town about like fifteen hundred.

People are so, okay, it's definitely small.

Yeah, it is small. So everyone knew everyone, and it came across as a as a relative safe town. But we'll we'll dive into that.

One of those places like maybe you can like leave your door unlocked it nights sort of thing.

Well, I mean like everyone was up in everyone's business. So and here's okay, this is like a little side story that I wanted to include.

Let's hear it, what you got.

It has nothing to do with Katie, but it just gives some contexts on like the size of the town. That it appeared to be somewhat of a religious town, and that, like I said, everyone you know knows knows your business.

Yeah.

So a porn store opened in two thousand and five called lions Den. Do you dig it?

Lies?

Then? Actually, yeah, means the name I'm taking a sip of water here?

Do it take that sip hydrate? It's important.

Well, yeah, it's hot here, it's.

Like thirty five degrees celsius right.

Now, it's I think it's twenty five. You're way wrong.

Then Why do I like sweat just for laying in bed? Like what the fuck?

I'm pretty sure it's only twenty five stories.

Dude, No malarkey, I call malarkey. It's twenty eight.

Oh gosh, I was closer.

And it's seven thirty pm right now, so it's been cooling off a bit.

Yeah, so okay. So from the day the store opened, Christian protesters set up a platform alongside the fence of the property in order to photograph people walking in and out of the store dick move. This was done day and night, with the photos later being posted to a website that they alleged they said, we'll get two million views, like sure. The protest organizer was the pastor of the First Baptist Church, and the group called themselves the Union

I would be one of those people who goes in repeatedly and makes my face known. I would go into the store and I would come out with a blow up doll blown up under my arm and being like something.

Just to stir up, stir. Yes, it's a bit much like, oh, definitely, just let people live their life, Like, let them just live their life.

If someone wants to get their kink on, let them get the kink on, don't kink shame.

And I mean it's a store, it's not like it's like against the law, yep. Anyway, So several complaints were also made because at night, the Uniontown Watchdogs would shine a floodlin light in the faces of drivers like passing by, like in preparation to take their photo. So this is like a freaking safety hazard. You imagine driving along the road and thou and this thing just shines right in your face.

Yeah, that that's a major car accident waiting to happen. You think, I get someone drive by with like just not even high on me at night, like a little extra bright lights, and I'm like about to hit the ditch.

I know. Yeah, And I mean it was like our Am I getting abducted by an alien here or what's going on? So the store was eventually shut down, Like, I mean, it's just inevitable, with the reason that the store violated a country licensing or ordinance being in operation within a thousand feet of a residence. Oh god, So I mean they just like, I don't know, that just sounds like made up shiit to me. But anyway, So

Yeah, the good old Brothersville. You know, just porn shaming people and stuff.

Oh gosh, okay, So the katy So she was on route to pick up the toilet paper, right and the toilet. This place, I think it was like a dollar store, was about a block and a half away from her home, so not really that far.

She knows the root sort of thing.

Yeah, she's good, yea, yeah, totally. Like she's ten. I mean probably at that age you kind of can venture, especially if you're in a small town.

Oh yeah, you know. I grew up on a dirt road out in the sticks, like I was by ten, biking kilometers up the road, going out in the bush, playing with friends, and stuff.

So yeah, and I like, I lived pretty close to my elementary school, so I'm pretty sure by then I was like expected.

To walk home. Yeah, most likely.

So after purchasing the toilet paper. However, the ass, white ass white.

Get that, get it right, Come.

On now, Katie did not return home. Katie, she did not return home. Initially, Katie's mom wasn't really worried. Katie was a very popular girl with a lot of friends along the route that she traveled, so the mom kind of just figured that she got caught up playing. Yeah, you know, didn't really realize.

The time shit happens.

Yeah, I mean I think that's like something a ten year old would do. But she did start making some calls to see if anyone knew where her daughter was. When Nole came of this, and by this time, Katie's father was also home from work, they started getting a bit more worried for their daughter's safety and went out themselves to search for their little girl, following the route that she would have taken.

Again back in that good old parenting. Yeah, they're doing their thing. They're doing it right, They're doing.

A good job. I like these parents, yeah, because they're good parents. But I mean they probably, like I imagine like the mom probably feels guilty, probably, which is really shitty.

Yeah, you're a little bit off your microphone, You're you're drifting a bit.

Well, because we're not facing each other, you're bothering me.

Well, I'm sorry that we're in an awkward room right now because we're trying to make our house look good to sell it. Yeah, just turn your points towards your mouth a bit more like this. There you go, because I have a feeling you might drift and like to probably do it again. Yeah, talking like this and you can't really hear shit because you're over here sort of thing, you know.

Okay, So it was around seven thirty eight when they called the police to report their daughter missing, gotcha, and she left to go to the story around three, so it was a little bit of time in there, right. So when the police arrived at Katie's house, there were already hundreds of people out searching for Katie. Oh wow, you know, like they all want to do their part. Their search went through the night. They had a helicopter

Oh shit.

A neighbor did tell Katie's family that on the day she disappeared, she had come to their house to let them know their dog had been killed on the train tracks. So she was over there and one of the neighbors did know, which is shitty that the dog died too.

I was thinking, like someone like drug her over there and on the train.

Or something I know, I know, or like that she just took off on a train or.

Well, by the sounds of it, I can't see Katie taking off on her own sEH.

I don't think she would do that. So it wasn't until two days later that an amber alert was issued. There was no initial evidence of an abduction until an eyewitness came forward claiming they saw a girl who looked like Katie in a white pickup truck. The witness described the driver as a very skinny, white man about six feet tall, with short, dark hair and a fair complexion. Okay, okay, So a sketch was a released of this, and I

I mean you will kind of all gay.

Actually I'm an amazing driver.

You have road rage out the ass, Okay.

But that's not really bad though, yes, is bad. I don't ever like I just like swear when I'm driving, I don't do anything.

And then you speed up and tailgate the guy that you all know.

I do not tailgate. That's like my pet peeve, like, don't tailgate. Don't tailgate. That will make me just like lose my shit.

See, I'm like, if someone pisses me off, I don't swear, I don't curse, but well maybe a little bit, but I don't get mad, but I will fucking tailgate the ship that of them, and I will let them know that.

Yeah, I've been tail getting is the worst. Like if someone if I'm just like driving to work and someone's tailing to me, instantly, my day's shit. It's like back off, okay, if I may.

I've got a bit of a story for everyone listening out there. We own a Chevy Silverado, bright fucking orange pickup truck.

Like it's think of a pylon because like Ben likes to be noticed.

I like bright colors. I'm an out there kind of guy. It's like a pylon color, like in a construction zone. For whatever reason, this thing is just a magnet for people cutting you off. Like I can drive a car, another truck, suv, whatever, other people's vehicle, never get cut off. Drive this truck. You will get cut off two or three times just going downtown.

And I've been driving it recently just because our car isn't like doing the best of shape. And yeah, you're right, it's ridiculous.

I don't understand.

It is actually is crazy, like it just blows your mind. Okay, you're down. What's the story?

Sorry?

You done?

I digress. I'm sorry.

Okay, that's fine. Now we all know. Okay, So the witness also mentioned the girl in the truck did not appear to be in distress.

Okay, I don't know.

I just thought i'd throw it in there. Missing person posters described Katie as being four feet six inches with chin length, brown hair and brown eyes. She was last spotted wearing a red shirt, black sweatpants with a stripe down the leg, black tennis shoes, and a medium light blue winter coat. It also described Katie as having a lazy eye.

I'm sorry, but as soon as you described the sweatpants with a stripe down the leg, I was just taken back to like two thousand and three with like juicy written across some booty.

I don't know why, Yeah, well this okay, I'm just trying to think in two thousand and five, like I guess we would have been a little bit older. Hey yeah, oh yeah, we.

Were school two thousand and six.

Okay, never mind, we're older. Because I was like, I probably have pants like that.

Did you? Did you have juicy booty? No?

I didn't do the juicy booty sweatpants, but I definitely had like the track pant that had like the buttons on it that you.

Could just like the tarraways. Yeah, yeah, you.

Know I had. They were red and they had purple accents.

Well we should do is we should get tearaway sweatpants with Juicy written on them on the bottom.

And sell them for money.

No, just you and me wear them.

No one would buy that.

We'd walk around town just wearing juicy terrorways.

Wow, we would have no friends.

Oh, you can have Juicy on it and mine can say booty there.

We go, we'll walk down the street together.

Yeah, it'll be juicy booty or booty juicy.

I guess. Okay. So these parents issued a written statement pleading for their daughter's safer turn, saying, please do not harm her. We asked you just drop her off anywhere so that she may return to a family and community loves her very much and misses her dearly. Like I can only imagine like these four parents like that, what heartbreaking. So it was on the fifth day of the search, so January thirtieth, that the search would end for the town, but not in the way that everyone wanted it to end.

Of course.

Katie's parents received news that Katie's body had been found in a creek by an Indiana State Police trooper, the creek being in the I think it's Cypress Lake area, around nineteen miles away from Katie's home. Her hands were bound behind her back. She had been raped, and her final cause of death was drowning. Poor Katie, Like my heart just like sinks for her.

That's that's just so sad.

It's like ten, like she just didn't get to like live.

Her life, no kidding, and to go through something like that at ten years old too. Yeah, God, whoever did by?

People are bringing nasty.

You're nasty.

I mean I say that so often, but it's just like people are disgusting, Like they're disgusting your nasty. Not long after Katie's body was found, Charles Hickman confessed to the crime and it was arrested and charged with Katie's murder.

He just up and just be like, yo, I did it. Yeah, oh shit.

He confessed the police that he and another man, Timothy Sullivan, had abducted Katie. I didn't find a lot about this, but some articles mentioned there was maybe a third unnamed mail around seventeen, but there was no name or anything. His story being that Katie witnessed an illegal drug transaction on her way home and they wanted to try and

No kidding. So if you're sitting here trying to scare a child, and there's three potential two potentially three of you. Yeah, creek, Yeah, and this child falls I'm assuming face first into the creek. You're gonna go oh no, and just like watch she's accidentally drowning. We should probably do something like no, you get her out, she's not gonna.

Drown And I'm sorry, but that's not accidental. That's freaking murder. Yeah, like you murdered her.

Yeah, you stood there, she drowned. That's well, I'm not sure if it's straight up murder, but it's definitely.

Manslaughter, right, that's what that'd be called, because it's not We.

Really need to learn our terminology for that sort of Well, it wasn't like they tended to go murder her.

They were intending to just scare her. So yeah's manslaughter.

I don't know, I'm not too sure. We got to learn her definitions.

Yeah. So this Charles Hickman, I like Charles Hickman. I kind of just like that name. For some reason, dude was known within the town as being a bit odd. Charles often standing in his yard gazing at nothing less, which he thought was weird. But like, really he's just like high out of his rick and mind. Probably Like when I read that, I was like, well, he's just high. Yeah,

Okay, so he was just high in Crystal.

So for an example, here in two thousand and four, there was one hundred and sixteen meth related arrests compared to two thousand and two when there was only twenty nine. So like for a low small population town like that is like a jump, oh definitely. Or was it sixteen thousand people fifteen hundred fifty or fifteen.

Hundred Oh shit, I thought it was thousand, okay.

And then in one year, I mean, this is a bigger area than just the town. But in one year, one hundred and sixteen. Yeah, you know that's a lot.

That's a significant jump. Holy shit.

So after Katie's death, two facilities making bootleg meth were discovered. So her death did seem to bring an end to this, which is good. Like there was an article about like this brought something good to the town because the facilities were shut down. It was said, shady characters no longer stalk the streets of the one stop like town. However, ribbons of blue, Katie's favorite color, lace the streets and porches, but all and also were gone were the bike riding

And how long after uh katy was discovered did this guy confess to this? Because this was this going on after his arrest?

Still, what was going on? Sorry?

Where people were not walking their dogs?

Oh yeah, yeah, like it was so I wonder if.

The general public was not believing this confession.

I mean I think it just made them think differently, right, Yeah, I guess, Like I think as far as they knew, they had their person. But well, we're going to dive into this event more. Okay, So it appeared to the police that they had their dude right with Charles Hickman. He was shady and the story made sense with the current meth problem the town was facing. But when the police questioned his friend Timothy, he wasn't omitting anything, of course,

Well, I mean, it's just someone who could potentially just be high out of his mind.

Well yeah, and he was odd and I don't know, I don't know. I'm not saying much more here.

I think you've got an opinion. Maybe we'll discuss that.

We'll discuss that later. So that's exactly what the police did. They started to dig a little bit deeper. That is, when they would have a match of DNA evidence. They found a cigarette butt at the crime scene matching DNA they had found on Katie's body, and the DNA was not a match to Charles oh shit, but rather belonged to an Anthony Ray Stockelman. I think that's how he say. Is Stockelmann, who was not local but was in town

Though, to be fair, detector tests are pretty shady in themselves.

Well, I have no idea, but like I feel like it just me being the person I am, I probably wouldn't have even murdered someone and taken a lie detector test, and I wouldn't pass, like, right, ship, maybe I did where I'd be like sweating.

Did I sleep walk? Did I Did I dream something weird that night? Maybe I don't know. Yeah, no, I feel that through and through.

So I don't know. I know, I don't actually know if light detector tests do they even use them?

Still, they do, but I don't think they use them very often. I think it's like one of those like kind of last resort to They just they just are digging for something.

They're just no, I just think that those now. So he was dismissed as a suspect when he passed the light detector test and Charles had confessed right yeah. But a few weeks later, they arrived once again to collect a DNA sample from Anthony. The DNA and he gave it to them, so he willingly did so. The DNA sample come back as a match, so he was like

There, Yeah, no kidding.

He was arrested charged. Oh sorry, I wrote that wrong in my notes. So he was arrested charge and he was up against the death penalty for abducting, molesting, and murdering little Katie.

Yeah, rightfully.

So his sentencing was scheduled for April seventeenth, two thousand and five. So like this is all pretty quick. Hey, Like her body was discovered in January thirtieth. Yeah, like they did good work here.

Well, I mean, I'm sure it's a small town sort of thing, so there's.

How many suspects do they have, really well.

And what other crimes are they're dealing with. They probably were able to expedite the process quite a bit.

That's true. Okay. So he was scheduled to have a sentencing, but he took a plea agreement. The agreement being if he pleaded guilty to the charges, the death penalty he was facing would be taken off the table. Like he didn't want the death penalty.

Yep.

He was sentenced to life imprisonment, imprisonment and an additional thirty years for raping Katie Good. The verdict did have mixed reviews though, like with the family and the people of the town because they wanted him to basically pay the ultimate price, and that was the death penalty, right, Like they were happy that he was still going to be rotting in jail, but like, I don't know, I don't know what would be better, Like if I had someone that did something bad to a loved one, would

I mean it's not like he got away with it, per se. He is there for life. And you said without the chance of parol.

Yeah, let me just see life. Yeah, life imprisonment yet an additional thirty years, So like, yeah, he was in there for life.

Okay, I mean he's put away for life, so it's not like, I mean, he's gonna rot. It's not the death penalty, but it's better than him getting fifteen years or something.

Do you unimaginable ship? And then they're just like, oh, okay, it's better than nothing. This is where the story takes a bit of a satisfying turn.

Yeah, this is the part I was waiting for, and this is the part everyone's waiting for him.

So karma, revenge, whatever you want to call it, is freaking sweet sweet my friends. Anthony was sent to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility being that he was convicted of raping and killing a ten year old girl, like his time in prison was just gonna be shitting, like you know, your.

Shit rapists and all that sort of stuff. They do not have a good time in prison. Mm hmm nasty.

But do you want to know what would make it even less fun?

I'm pretty sure I already know.

But detail a cross paths with the relative of Katie's while in prison, like that is so cool?

Like someone maybe I don't know Katie's uncle.

It's not it's not wrong, it wrong, get it wrong. So on September nineteenth, two thousand and six, Jared Harris Was who was also serving or sorry, who was serving a burglary sentence, was transferred to the same prison wing as Anthony. Jared was Katie's cousin.

Okay, close enough, you were wrong. I was wrong.

And this is where the story gets real good. And I should, okay, I should say like I don't like condone violence or anything, but I do believe in karma. And I think if you're a ship bag motherfucker, a shit bag motherfucker, that you deserve anything that comes to you.

If you're a ship bag motherfucker, you deserve shit bag motherfucker shit.

So, like, I don't condone this, but like karma, I think I think karma is just should just always be a Thingama's.

A bitch, Karma is a ship bag motherfucker.

Okay. So, on Setember twenty second, two thousand and six, Jared slipped into Anthony's open cell and waited for him to return. When he did, Jared closed the cell door behind him, causing it to lock and trapping Anthony in the cell with him. He put his hand around Anthony's throat and told him I'm either going to stick you and leave you bleed in, or I'm going to tattoo you. So, giving like these two options, Anthony chows the tattoo. I'm

Do tell? Let's hear it well.

Spanning basically his entire forehead in capital letters, Jared tattooed Katie and below it, in smaller lettering the word revenge. Yes, so if he didn't already have a freaking red flag above his head, right right.

Kidding, Like you said, everyone in this town knows everybody, everyone knows who Katie is. So Katie's Revenge is gonna stick out big.

Oh absolutely, Like he now has the words Katie's Revenge tattooed across the span of his forehead yeap, giving himself and others a daily reminder of his crime. Like yes, like that is just I don't know.

Fucking amazing, this douche canoe is fucking stuck with this stamp in his forehead of how much of a fucking douchebag piece of shit motherfucker he is?

Yeah, I literally think it's like the best thing ever. Hell yeah, like I just I just think it just like it just makes my day really okay. So apparently not much makes my day, like.

Apparently it takes prison tattoos revenging little girls to make your Yeah yeah, I mean that that is a daymaking things so okay.

So unfortunately, though, two prison guards suspected of supplying the leaked photo of Anthony's new ink were fired.

That's stupid is that that infamous phoone? Oh that's all ye across.

Google because it should never have been released, I guess, and I couldn't find a lot of information on this, but allegedly jared sentence was also increased. Gotcha, Like, come on, judge, like, just let them have it. Let them have this, no kidding, but I mean tattoos are against prison regulations.

Yeah, but also raping and killing little girls is against society's regulations.

Yeah, but this is interesting. Inmates, like they would often give each other tattoos with like instruments with plastic utensils and needles. Yeah, Like I don't even understand how that works or how they would do it. I mean, I need to watch a video or something on this.

If you look at like how tattoos were originally done, it's like came from like tribes and I don't know where exactly, but Ethiopia, Africa wherever they originated from. They start with basically just like a stick and then like a fragment of I don't know, bone or a needle of sort, and they dip it in whatever ank or pigment and the just kind of repeatedly stabbed I been sticking poke the oh.

So like there's no gun or anything. They're just repeatedly doing it like with their hand.

Most most likely, I doubt they would find any sort of motors in prison to do it. Yeah, but they might, I mean maybe smuggle some shit in electric toothbrush or some shit. I don't know.

Well honestly, like, well, I mean we have a glimpse of the photo, will post another one on Instagram. But like he did a good job then yeah, like really.

We also better be posting the sketch on Instagram.

Yeah, well many, well, yeah, I'll post like a little gallery of things. Okay, Okay, I do want to show you the sketch.

Okay, it's crazy if you guys want to see a sketch hit up or Instagram.

Wicked and grim as simple as that and grim.

Okay, keep going.

Okay, So one final stone to turn and turn it in the rabbit hole that I that I went down, you know, is a blog post by none other than Anthony himself. Is so itchy right.

Now, that shite get a finger on the inside on an inside job.

So the the story. The blog post was titled my Story. It starts off by saying that he's serving a life sentence for a crime he did not commit. Oh it's a pretty long post, so we'll put like the link if you want to read it yourself, but I'll touch on like a few of the points.

The link will be in this description for the podcast.

Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, sorry, I'm like you always do that. I'm like, I don't even know where the link is, but it'll be there.

I'm the editor and i'm the posters, so.

It will be like in the notes of the podcast, right, that's right, they're put Okay, the episode description.

That's where all the notes usually are the links and everything, and a link to our website. Yes, a little bit of a self promotion there.

There you go. We got a website, we got on Instagram, we got a Facebook, though we're like pretty shitty at Facebook for some reason. I'm trying to fix that. That's you anyway. Okay, So this is kind of where some like discussion here is going to happen.

Let's discuss.

I got some more stuff to read, but it's like, it's.

Interesting, let's hear this blog stuff first, like that I didn't ever know that he came up with this blog.

Saying well, and it was in like I think it was in two thousand and eight. So it talked about his surprise when prosecutors claimed his DNA matched when he was like willing to give a sample and everything, So like I mean someone willing to generally, But no, we've had other cases where people willing to do because at that point I think they know they're just they're done.

Yeah, And howe how he took the plea because he was in quotations convinced that would be in his best interest.

Well, either you die or you go away for life. What are you going to pick?

Yeah? But I think technically, like if he had went through the whole trial, if he didn't do it, maybe they wouldn't have had enough evidence in like you know, you know, but he was convinced to take this plea. There was also some sketchiness happening with his lawyer, who he thought had had his best interest but he didn't.

Oh shit.

To give an example of this, and this is sketch, he said he had his friends and family donate money to pay for retesting of the DNA evidence, but his lawyer was unable to explain what he did with those donations really, so like took the money and like never used it for this purpose.

I guess just probably out getting that freaking meth on the night outstaring at shit in his front lawn.

So his wife was also on his side, like through most of this until one day she just wasn't and testified against him in court. What Yeah, So that's like a little weird, you know. And he talked a lot about how Charles Hickman, the man who had like originally confessed. Yeah, how the story Charles supplied was like just abruptly discharged

Really, so he's saying police are charging the wrong people Charles, Holy shit?

Yeah, but I mean just wait where am I here? I'm getting.

Getting your fuffled.

How credible is Charles? You know?

How credible is anyone though? Too? How credible is is Anthony? How credible is yeah? The entire system?

So, like this thing, I read it and I was like, holy shit, Like he had some freaking convincing arguments in there, and I was just like, oh my gosh, like do they not do they not have the wrong do they have the wrong person? But then like I was like, he's been in jail for a while, he's had like a lot of time to think, can you really argue with DNA?

Well, his DNA was there.

But then he even said like he was like maybe they took the cigarette from my truck when they searched it. But then his DNA was also on the body and stuff right and in in the the string that was used to tie Katie's wrists. Can you plant that kind of shit?

I'm sure you can, because I mean, all it really takes maybe that cigarette, but they just rubbed shit everywhere. I don't know, I don't know if there is someone trying to plant evidence. I'm sure there's a way to get his DNA over.

The ball like semen too, though, Yeah, that's.

Was there, CNA, CNA, DNA, semen DNA there was, Yeah, it was okay, and then explain the red fibers.

Then exactly so I don't know.

The description of his truck.

I was literally like reading this and I was like I was feeling almost bad, and I was like, holy shit, like he just got this like tattoo on his forehead and like what I think's not the right person. But then and I forgot to mention this actually the year prior he had appealed, okay, saying that he was that he committed the crime and that he was under the

Yeah, he just lost all credibility in my mind.

I know, because so when I saw that that in that he appealed the previous year and had said that he committed and he had taken the polea. So it's like he's all over the place.

There are people who have been wrongfully imprisoned for whatever crime, oh absolutely, And there are people who have been who take the plea because their lawyer convinces them whatever the situation, they take that plea even though they're innocent because it seems like that's the right choice.

Well, and it could be a financial thing too, potentially, right, Yeah, it could have been, like I mean, it's cost a lot of money to like be on trial and stuff.

So just for Devil's advocate sake, here, just say he was one of those people who is innocent and took the plea because of whatever X reasoning. So now he is in prison and he is innocent. He's gonna lose credibility by saying, you know, I did do it, but here's all my shit that why I did it. And then the next year, Yeah, that didn't work. So I'm just gonna just confess. No, you're gonna confess and say

Well, his appeal, like he probably was trying to get some sort of because you can get maybe more lenient sentence if like you had some sort of mental illness or something that.

Yeah, if you're innocent, why are you gonna grasp for a more lenient sentence? Wouldn't you grasp for I'm innocent. I don't deserve this. I should be free. Yeah, that doesn't make sense. If they don't believe that you're innocent, if you can't get free, then you're going to grasp for the leniency and then you're gonna plead for the insanity. That's what an innocent person would do in my mind.

Yeah, so he literally I don't know. I had read his story his blog posts first and then and then I was like, oh, man, like I feel bad for him, Like I think that they might have stored up. And then I came across the appeal that he had done the previous year and not like no, you can't have that, you can't have this DNA, you can't have like the red fibers, the matching truck. Like there's there's a lot, but it it does seem weird that this other man

Know, maybe they are connected maybe.

But that the police said that that Anthony and Charles were not oh really, yeah, that was something that they had.

Found well, shit, I guess the guy's just a fucking tweaker and Anthony's a fucking rapist, murderer, piece of shit, douchebags. Coum, what'd you say?

You? Oh? What did I say?

Nasty mother? No, motherfucking something, piece of shit, motherfucker. I don't know.

I don't even know, but I mean I all in all honesty, just like poor Katie, like she was a little girl that had her whole life ahead of her. And whether it be Anthony, which I want to, I think it's Anthony that's the one serving his sentence. He took that, he took that, and it's just heartbreaking.

And he's now go to fucking banner across his for it. Yes, I really hope that he cannot get that removed.

Yeah, I kind of. There was one report that had said some medical person offered to like remove it, fuck them, But I really don't think that it should be removed, Like why would it? Why? Like just this is just like karma, Like just let karma play out here. Yeah, can we please have that moment? So anyway, that's the story. Dang, Yeah, there's a lot more to it than I think you probably originally.

Thought it Oh yeah, because I've never researched a story. I've never listened to a podcast. Nothing. I just kind of few articles, like short Facebook articles that have read in the past. That's it. So I knew the basics. I thought it was an uncle. Clearly was a cousin. I was close.

That's close ish an uncle's.

Child would be a cousin. So there you go. I was in the same family.

There you go. Anyway, thanks so much for listening.

Yeah, we appreciate you guys being here. Make sure you check out the Instagram. Yes, the website, the Facebook, the whatever else we got. Do we have anything else?

I think that's it.

We should get a tweeter, tweeter a Twitter. We should get a Twitter, and then we cannot use that.

I actually vote against that. I have never really used Twitter. I don't even know where.

I'm not a Twitter person either. Yeah, so, but check them all out. Our website links down below, and on desktop we have links to our social media. I really got to get that change so it goes onto like mobile as well for the social media links.

But until I get that all set up, make sure you guys do Wicked Friends