Katherine Knight - Part 2

Catherine Knight is a rare specimen. She is a female psychopath, and men are three to five times more likely to become psychopaths and women. In Part one, we covered her early life and her upbringing all the way up to her marriage now here. In Part two, we will continue to unravel her life and her horrific crime.

My name's Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and.

Grim, a true crime podcast.

Warning.

The following podcast jeans and material intended for a mature audience. Listener discretion is advised. So do I need to recap you a bit? Yeah, like thirty seconds ago and the goals like, wait, what are we doing again?

Go for it? At nice? Actually it was a gooder.

But yeah, you're all like, what case we're doing? You can't even remember last week?

Well, I feel like last week was more than a week ago.

Well a lot had happened.

Yeah, it just seems like last week was busy, and I feel like that was like a month ago. So I need a recap. And some people now are just gonna be listening to part one and jumping right into part two.

So we'll do it so they're fresh at least.

Little middle recap.

Okay, so little recap on this, We're gonna jump right into a recap here. Catherine Knight was brought up in kind of like a not a very good kind of atmosphere. Okay, quite a violent household and yeah, not so good. Eventually she would get married to an individual whose name is David Stanford Kellen, and their relationship is quite rocky, rather aggressive.

Right, it was only three. Shit, this is ringing a bell. Yeah, it's gonna all just come back to me.

Yeah. So now the most recent incident is that David had actually left her, right, had gone away with another woman.

Right, I was going to say another woman.

Yeah, yep. And now Catherine has kind of lost her shit, dropped her kid off in a railway track, was swinging an axe downtown. Thankfully, the kid was saved and she was put into an institution, but then subsequently released very soon after, got her kid back, and is now holding her neighbors at knife point to go track down David's mother.

Right, yeah, and has said kid though right are we weren't or we left as we weren't sure or something.

I couldn't Actually I did a little bit of searching on that I couldn't find if she got the kid back here, I don't. I don't know just yet, Okay, because yeah, some more stuff happens, and she'll end up in an institution again, and then okay.

Well we'll just let Yeah, we'll just let you. We'll get there.

Yeah. But that is the quick elevator pitch of episode one. If you haven't listened to, it makes she go do a lot of her upbringing and a lot of her I don't know her atmosphere, that sort of stuff her what's the word I'm looking for.

Vibe?

It's definitely not vibe. That's not what I'm thinking. Okay, like our surroundings, her surroundings, I think definitely planned to who she is today and is going to be an important integral piece for part two. When we actually listened to her later.

Actions, Okay, how exciting. Yeah, shoot, what was I gonna say? It was there and then it just wasn't. Holy heck, I don't know. But anyway, one thing I was going to talk about. I had something else to talk about, but that's long gone. We had our true crime trivia night, which was a hit and a half.

It was it was fantastic, so although rather quickly people loved it. Although holy shit, people know their true crime.

Yeah, we thought that the questions were like fairly difficult. I even at one point was like, oh, I think we should throw in some easier ones. But they were easy apparently, like there wasn't any that any that everyone was stumped on.

No, most I think I think most people got like at least like eighty percent of the questions. Yeah, it was absurd. I was kind of going for like intermediate questions where I'm like, okay, some I'll stump people. And it's like I think there was people who knew every single freaking question. It was just like ridiculous. Yeah, so hats off to everyone who was there. That was an incredible time. We're gonna be doing it again.

They blew us away.

Yeah, and I actually I thought of a fantastic question this morning when I, uh, like first thing when I woke up too, I was like, holy shit, I don't know why this popped into my head, but it was a really good one.

Oh well, you're gonna have to share because yeah, after that night, Ben, Like, my goal is next trivia night. O. There's gonna be one question that no one is going to get.

Yes, but I don't want it to just be like so obscure that no one gets.

I want it to be like so hard, like you really have to all your shit.

Well yes and no. I want it to be like hard that people aren't going to get it, but not so hard that it's like, oh, come on, no one's gonna know that. I want it to be a reasonable question that stumps everyone. That's what I want.

That it's a question that they know the answer but they can't. They can't. They they're just there, but they can't grab it something they should know. Yeah, yeah, oh, I remember what I was going to say.

Holy oh, what was it?

Gosh. I actually find it fascinating that men are more likely to be a psychopath and I kind of want to know why, Like that's something I almost want to dig in a little bit because that's intriguing.

So I do have a theory on this, and it's a theory kind of because men generally are more aggressive in nature. Yeah, right, Yeah, more rapists, killer, psychopaths. It's just higher up all around. I think our dogs are howking hor there?

Well, no, they're playing. They have constantly been playing all day today on their beds. It's quite interesting to watch this.

They just have a grand old time over there. My theory is I think it boils down to testosterone. And I'm I'm not a biologist or anything. I don't know my shit. I just did a quick Google search one day and was like, huh, I found this interesting. So, as far as I'm aware, testosterone levels increase during menstruation aka PMS pre menstrual syndrome. That's when the female natural body testosterone is at its highest, which makes you guys kind of act a little bit, you know, orinery cranky

That just push more of it.

Yeah. So I think it's that chemical in the male genome that pushes them to be more like psychopaths, killers, whatever, because if you put that same chemical in females, you sort of see the same kind of spike in Yeah.

Yeah, well it is interesting. I'll just say this really quickly. Is that lots of times I feel like men think women are the ones that don't have their shit together or a little nutt o a little nut. Oh, I'm just trying to word this nicely.

But I was trying to do the same. Don't worry.

Hey, there's there's the stats there.

Yeah.

Women, women just you know, we have our shit together. It's right there.

And like I say, I just think it comes down to testosterone affecting the brain. That's what I think.

Yeah, it might be it would be interesting to talk to like a psychologist or something about this. But anyway, we have some lovely patrons to thing, do we not?

We do. We have Haley Davis and Demig who both signed up this previous week, and they if they didn't, if they're not local, they didn't get to see the Trivia night live. The whole live stream is up on our patreons, so they can go check it out in whenever they want.

Yeah, we did our best with that. It was a bit hard because like we had audience kind of there right and then also this camera. But I have I have more ideas to make it more a little bit more interactive next time, King, But it was still really cool. Like I hopefully they still felt like they were kind of a part of the event.

Yeah, I do too, but like it's just kind of like unfortunately for the trivia thing, it's like that's the primary. So like going live stream, that's going to be a secondary. So we have to make sure we actually host the trivia first and foremost.

Yeah, and it was our first one, so it was it was a learning thing. It was really cool though, and we're excited to do more.

Yeah, anyways, should we get onto this because I think we've kind of yabbered a little bit.

Yeah, let's do it.

Okay. So when we left off, like I said, Catherine had her previous life, her marriage thing, and she currently is holding her neighbor's hostage by knife point and demanding that they drive her to David, her husband's mom's house, because she knows if she's going to get back at him for leaving her, the best way to do that is go after his mother.

Oh that's next level, Hey.

Next level? What'd you say, nuto Ndle?

Is that his hand?

Is that how you said it? So? Yeah, that's that's what she was doing. She was she was pulling the next level nutt and going after David's mom. Wow yea. So she managed to actually trick them by telling them that her daughter was sick and needed a ride to the hospital. So they came over to pick them up, and then that's when the Knight Point thing happened, right, So the family was forced to take her to the hospital or sorry, I mean David's mom in order to

That's actually pretty impressive that they were able to get themselves out of that situation.

It really is.

That's really good.

And this is kind of where I couldn't find if she did still have her child at this point, because it was only like a day or two prior that she was taken into care, and now it's taken into care again. So there's this like little window I am unsure of.

Well, yeah, because I imagine there's well, I don't know, this is older and stuff, right, this is a little bit older of a case.

Uh yeah, kind of.

Yeah, so I imagine there even then, I'm sure there's like protocols and stuff and it's not like, oh, you come out of care and here's your kid, like it might take it a little bit.

Yeah, Like this case I think is like right now, I think we're sitting in the eighties. Okay, so yeah, yeah. So Catherine, though like reported reportedly confessed to the nurse that her intents were also to kill the mechanic who worked at the service station. Why well, that's well why because, according to her, he had recently done repairs on David's car, so she believed that in doing so, the mechanic helped enable her husband to leave and run off with another woman.

That's that's getting a little bit unreasonable there, Ye, do you think that her mind's really going a mile a minute?

Last episode, she left her infant on railway tracks, and this you think she's getting unreasonable?

A little bit, just a little I mean to have your brain wander to the fact that that mechanic helped your husband or whatever escape. That's wow.

Yeah. So additionally, she did also plan to murder both her husband and his mother upon arrival in Queensland when she got there with this family. So when David eventually caught winto this incident, what do you think he decided to do?

Run for the fucking hills?

He ran back to her?

What?

Yeah, he decided he would go back to his wife.

And I to protect his mom. Maybe no, because I.

Don't think he had any idea that she was after him or her mother, because I think the idea of her confessing that she was going to murder them came out many years later. So what he did, and mad respect to him for this in all honesty, he went back to go take care of his wife.

Oh, like he realized that she needed help.

Basically really yeah, so he left his new girlfriend and relocated back to Aberdeen with his mother as well to help support and care for her.

Well. I also imagine he was thinking about his child too, Yeah.

Most likely, But yeah, he's like, I gotta go back, she needs help.

Wow.

So whether that's the right call or not. I'm not gonna argue on but holy shit, mad respect for someone to pick up the boots and take on that burden.

Well, I mean he was very much so right. She does need some help, yeah.

For sure. So it was on August ninth, nineteen seventy six, that's our current date, when David made his way to the institution that was caring for Catherine and she was released into his care along with his mother, and they also picked up their daughter.

Okay, yeah, okay, so the daughter's back now.

The daughter is back in their care for sure. So the two were making another attempt at the relationship. They wanted a fresh start, and at first that's exactly what it was. But as time went on, the same problems began to arise. David was always walking on eggshells, truly convinced that if he said the wrong thing at the wrong time, he or someone else around would be killed. I can't imagine living that way.

Well, I mean, it's one thing, kind of like walking on eggshells if like you're spouse is having a bad day or cranky or whatever, but like to be walking on eggshells because you're worried someone's gonna die, or that they're gonna you're gonna kill somebody. Oh yeah, that's that's almost hard to even like put yourself in those shoes.

It was, And I got a little example here of how that played out. Just one second out. One more little point I want to make first. So one point first was Catherine was actually caught having an affair. At one point, she successfully begged David for another chance, even though a lot of her like shit in her own head was she was fearful of him cheating on her. Hmmm, yeah,

Oh my gosh.

He's like, let me deal with this.

Oh yeah, but like your kid is like in some super danger here. Yeah, yikes. I mean, yeah, he's really in a tough spot. But this is something has to happen here.

So it would be in nineteen eighty when they would welcome their second child. Oh the world.

Shit, that's not exactly where I was going with that. Yeah, something needs to happen.

I agree. I don't think I would be vouching for them to have another child exactly.

Wow.

So the baby was little Natasha Marie Kellett, and it would be only four years later that Catherine would end up leaving David.

Oh, okay, four years later that she left David.

She left David.

Okay, well, hopefully the kids remained with David.

Well, not necessarily, but David was working as a truck driver and Catherine suspected him of sleeping with other women while he was on the road. So one night, when David came home, he found the house empty. She took everything and moved back to Aberdeen.

Okay, yeah, everything, including the kiddos.

You bet you Now. In nineteen eighty six, Catherine would find herself entering another relationship. She met a man by the name of David Saunders, who was a thirty eight year old minder. So because David and David, I'm going to refer to this guy as Saunders by his.

Last name, okay, yeah, because I was like, that's not going to be confusing at.

All, Yeah, not at all. So soon they began living their life together with her two daughters, and Saunders knew puppy.

Oh, a puppy.

A puppy, the.

First puppy's poor puppy.

Yeah, poor puppy for sure. The first couple months were great, but just like Catherine's previous relationship, things would go downhill rather quickly, especially when she had reason to suspect of cheating. One occasion, when Sunders returned home late, Catherine was ironing and attacked him by swinging the hot iron at him and striking him across the face with Oh good god.

Well yeah, and I would imagine that would leave some sort of a scar.

Too, potentially because that would hurt. Yeah, So she's like literally striking him with a scalding hot iron. Ouch.

Oh my gosh, I just oh, it's hard to put yourself in that situation, because that's terrifying. I couldn't imagine coming home and you doing something like that.

Yeah, well, what about this, because that was only the beginning. In a very distressing incident in May of nineteen eighty seven, she callously took a knife to his two month old puppy and cut its throat as he helplessly watched.

No. Yes, wow, Oh my gosh, this frickin' lady, I have some choice words that I'm just biting my tongue right now.

A two month old puppy.

Wow, she is peer evil.

Another friend later on would talk about she would often swerve to try and hit dogs that were running across the road, and when questioned about it, she's like, I just don't like dogs.

Who the fuck is like dogs?

Apparently this bitch? Wow, she just saying. Oh, And this incident was merely a warning for the consequences if he did ever cheat or leave her.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah, And for one reason or another, Saunders actually did stay with her after this event. He did attempt to attempt to leave, but Catherine always managed to core her some to stay, whether it was begging or threats. Huh, So I can understand like there are toxic relationships and people like can't leave for various reasons. Oh yeah, I

Well, if you didn't know, we're big dog fans around here.

We are. In June of nineteen eighty eight, two would conceive and welcome a daughter into the world, Sarah Saunders. Though they were far from a happy home. Eventually Saunders managed to leave Catherine and he understandably went into hiding in another town, so Catherine was unable to find him.

Yeah, he was terrified.

Yeah, and of course Catherine I can't talk today. Of course Katherine there we go, was enraged, but there wasn't much she could do about it because she had absolutely no idea of his whereabouts. So that kind of sucked on her end. But fantastic for Saunders getting out of the relationship, Like, uh.

Well, yeah, that didn't seem like it was the healthiest of relationships.

Yeah, that's one way to describe it.

That's a good that's a nice way to describe.

It very very nice way. I nineteen ninety one, Catherine would become pregnant with her fourth child with a man by the name of John Chillingworth, a former coworker from the Slaughterhouse, and in nineteen ninety two she gave birth to their son, Eric Chillingworth. Okay, now, despite their new son, though, the relationship was like all others we mentioned so far, violent and it wouldn't actually last too long. She would leave John after after three years.

So at the beginning of her relationships, like she she must, she hides how she really is. Then, eh, you're like of time being. Well, I think it's the people.

I think it's kind of like a honeymoon period, right once, like the hunt, like the oh my God, like lovey dovey, lovey dove Once it's like, Okay, well, all of a sudden, it's like he's coming home a little later from work because instead of like rushing home to see me and have dinner with me and romance me, he's like, oh, I'm gonna go with the guys tonight. Yeah, it's like, oh what about me?

Okay, that makes sense because yeah, maybe the first few months, like you're almost like you're unseparable, right, yeah, inseparable.

I think both could actually apply technically.

And then yeah, I guess his life moves on like you kind of. You go back to a little bit of your day to day.

Ye. So okay, And there is some speculation out there, and I don't want to say facts on it because it's just people talking. But there are some articles I read where she was apparently really good in bed, so that was part of that.

Oh okay, that allure. That makes a lot of sense actually, yeah, huh wow. Okay.

So anyways, she would leave John Chillington for John Price.

Geez, why the fuck do all these people have the same name?

Yeah, I know, well John sorry, Chillingworth, not chilling ten. John Chillingworth was a very minor blip in this story. So the main John we are talking about here is John Price.

Okay.

So John Price was born on the fourth of April in nineteen fifty five and had three kids of his own when he began seeing Though his two year old daughter stayed with his former wife, he did have custody of his two older children, so he was described as a well liked individual, and in nineteen ninety five, Catherine would move in with John into his home, though it wasn't really a permanent situation. She still had kind of

Like more than just the toothbrush.

Yeah, definitely. So unfortunately for John Price, all those years of violent behaviors building up would come to a brutal climactic moment, if you will, at his expense.

Oh okay, here, I was thinking that she might hurt his kids or something because what she did to that one guy's poppy gosh, or maybe she does. Okay, let's hear well.

John was fully aware of Catherine's violent reputation. As I mentioned, it potentially could have that he was still in the relationship for sexual reasons. He actually does confirm that a little bit later on here, but I'll get to that at the beginning a part from the accasual violent argument. Life seemed quite pleasant and his children took a liking to her. Actually, so Price was earning good money working

Oh man, that's actually not very much time, really, it's not.

However, John made it clear that he was only in it for the sex and the relationship and didn't want marriage.

Like, is that what he actually said to her?

I couldn't find an exact quote on what he said, but I found articles talking about that.

That's probably something he kind of said hearsay, like after, I'm assuming not to her face.

No, I think it was more so like yeah, no, I'm just like it's just a relationship for me, like the sex, the relationship, the fun. I think that's kind of what he was was after.

Okay, well yeah, like he already had kids, been there, done that. Maybe yeah, he has divorced, so yeah, yeah, okay.

And I mean to any regular person this sort of like conversation, they may take that as a sign that's like, you know what, Okay, we got to go different ways. This relationship clearly isn't gonna work. We want different things. Or maybe even it's a sign that okay, we got to work on some things together to get on track together.

Yeah.

But for Catherine, it was of course much more so as Catherine had done in the past, you know, continuing with her douche canoe ways. She wanted to get revenge and turned to try and hurt some one close to John, because that's just what she does, yep, you know, trying to go after the mom, successfully going after the puppy.

Shit, I think one of the kids is in danger here.

Well, it wasn't physical harm that she attempted, but it was still traumatizing. So she would sit down with one of John's fourteen year old daughters and she began to tell her that John wasn't her real dad.

Okay, yeah, just making up some shit, yep.

She just like started fucking spewing lies, bullshit. She's like, oh, yeah, he's not your dad. He's like, yeah, your mom was sleeping around a bunch and some other dude out there's your dad. John's just some guy she cheated on him.

Whoa could you imagine at fourteen? Yeah, you would just be like hysterical. Yeah, okay, so.

She tried, she pulled that, which is not fucking cool.

No, but I did kind of expect that she was going to like kill one of them, not gonna lie.

Luckily enough, she did no go after the kid in this instance, which is fantastic. So again, that sort of trauma not cool. So she continued to bother John about the whole marriage thing, and he held his ground, but it was becoming enough for him. He wanted her out of his house.

Enough enough, Hey, enough's enough.

Yeah, but she refused. Now, while in John's house, Catherine eventually found John's will and realized that he didn't have her on it at all.

Okay, well have they like they've literally hardly been together here at this point.

You can round it up and you can say two years just to be gracious, huh.

Okay, she just oh, man, he's probably regretting some shit here.

Yeah. Well, she's looking at the will and it's all like, oh, you're leaving it to your ex wife and like your kids and stuff like That's I'm not in your fucking will and she thought this was absolute bullshit.

Oh my gosh, Yeah.

Why don't you did to get them back this time?

What?

Well, she didn't go after the kids this time, she did go after him personally, okay. In retaliation, she secretly recorded John handling items items that she alleged were stolen from his workplace, and then she proceeded to take that recording and send the video to his boss at work. Really, yes, so the items in question were outdated medical kits in

Wow, I don't even quite understand how that would like even benefit her, Like she is like literally this Like I.

Don't she's a bitch, well shit, straight.

Up crazy, But I don't know that's like maybe not the she's a crazy bitch she is though, like just like the way her her her mind's like thinking about all these thing she can do to just like ruin other people's lives and people that she's supposed to like care and love and stuff.

Is well, and remember we we are dealing with a psychopath. Yeah, that is what she is.

Yeah, holy I okay, that's and that's also kind of sad if they were expired first aid stuff that he'd like literally just took from the garbage that he was planning to use, which is better than them not being in the landfill. Yeah, and his work is.

Just like no yeap terminated.

Hmm, brutal.

I mean, at least look at it from this from the workplace standpoint. Though I don't agree with him, I'm just Devil's advocate here. At the very least, you have what's now being spread around work I'm sure as video evidence of someone's stealing.

From the company and then they don't do anything.

And then they don't do anything. What's that going to promote?

Yeah? You almost have to wonder though, if that was her way of trying to control him, more so in that he now doesn't have a job and maybe like needs to rely on her her and he's home more well something.

I actually didn't go into this too much, but she worked at the Slaughterhouse for a little while, but then she ended up injuring her back somehow and was on disability, so she didn't have a whole lot of income. Either.

Okay, yeah, so sorry.

Mosquitos one got in the house. I got him, I got him. It's good.

Yeah, they're kind of bad today.

Yeah so yeah. She didn't really have much of an income either, so.

Well yeah, so I just don't quite like to see how that's going to benefit her in any way either revenge, well, I mean, but now, like they're going to be struggling for money and stuff.

I don't think she cares. The biggest thing with her is she likes to see others suffer. Yeah, whether it's emotional, physical, she likes to see suffering. She likes to be the center of it. And she it's all about her. It doesn't matter anyone else. And if you wrong her, she's going to see you suffer so she can feel better.

Geez it true makes me talking, so it must just makes me feel ill, like I want to barf.

Yeah, yeah, fair enough, I can. Yeah, sympathize. That's what I was looking for. I can sympathize with that. Yeah. Well, anyways, John was absolutely fed up with Catherine, so he made the decision to finally kick her out of his house once and for all. Now. It was February twenty ninth that he visited the Scone Magistrate Courthouse on his way to work and obtained a restraining order in an attempt to protect himself and his children from Catherine. That afternoon,

Oh my gosh.

So I don't know how deep or the extent or the tool or even the incident, because there's a lot of these incidents within her relationships. It's hard to sift through them all.

Well, yeah, I could imagine the amount of like research you had to do for this. God.

Well, it's over the course of entire lifetime, lifetime of abuse not only on her and her childhood, but in her adulthood, abusing others. So anyways, he was talking about it, and he showed the scars, and he also told his co workers He's like, Hey, if I don't show up for work tomorrow, it's because Catherine killed me.

Oh my gosh.

Just warning people, just warning people, and I mean respectably. His coworkers were pretty much begging him, like, don't fucking go home then, like if you are thinking you're going to be in danger like this, this woman is this off the wall, don't fucking go home.

Yeah, but that's tough. Are they offering him somewhere to stay and stuff? Because it's hard?

That's hard, right, Well, I'm sure someone would have offered him somewhere to stay. I guarantee you he would be able to find a place easy enough.

Because yeah, you did say he was like well liked he.

Was he was, And especially if someone's like I'm gonna get fucking murdered tonight. I don't think I know anyone who would say you cannot stay with me then like.

Yeah, but then that's also kind of scary for them too. And he could even be thinking, well, he doesn't want to put other people in danger.

Yeah, but if they don't know, especially in this is now in the eighties, there's the most cell phones, there's no internet, how are you going to fucking know that he's at? Yeah, Jeffrey's house did four blocks away.

I guess or.

It would be. But John's major reasoning though, why he was insisting that he does need to go home. He knew that there was a chance that she would harm his kids if he didn't go back home. That was the big thing for him, right. So, after a shift at work, he did as he always did, despite any danger that he thought he might be in, and he returned home as per usual. Now, when he was home, he discovered that Catherine had actually sent the children away

He just on edge for the whole night, basically.

Yes. Now, at six am the following day, a neighbor had noticed that John's car was still in his driveway when he usually has gone to work by Now, John's employer also sent a worker to check on him, as he didn't show up for his shift, and after repeatedly calling him on his phone, there was no answer. Oh no, So both the neighbor and the worker together were trying to get's attention. They were knocking on his bedroom window trying to get him to wake up, thinking that he

Right, dang it.

So they quickly alerted police, who broke down the back door of his home on eighty fourth Saint Andrew's Street and discovered John's lifeless body.

She got him, She got to him.

So Catherine was also in the.

Home alive, Yes, alive, Okay.

She was found passed out in a comatose state from consuming a large amount of pills. She was lying next to the remains, mutilated remains of John Price.

Whoa So was she like trying to kill herself commit suicide? Or that's a gray area.

Maybe we'll we'll get onto that too.

Okay.

So Catherine had purchased the night before. Sorry, I'm a paragraph ahead of myself. So what had happened the night of John's death is odd? Bizarre string of events and somewhat argumentative of showing premeditation. Okay, so the night before she had purchased this lace black nightgown and headed over

Maybe a little bit different.

Yeah, And after that she went to John's house. She showered and put on the nightgown, and at this time John was already home asleep, so she would sleep a little while and then woke up in the middle of the night, and then she also woke up John, and the two began having sex. Interesting after that a little while, kind of thing they did, thing they did, thing they did. John fell back asleep, and that's when the attack occurred.

Is it because they only had sex one time?

Maybe? I don't know. Catherine would reach forward and retrieve a butcher knife from its usual place hanging above the bed, and she proceeded to stab John a total of thirty seven times.

Brutal.

It is thought that John briefly regained consciousness during the attack, but unfortunately was unable to defend himself. There's also thoughts that he was able to stumble through the house a bit, exiting through the front door, and whether he fell back inside or was pulled back inside before the door was closed. On sure, but he would succumb to the injuries of the attack.

You know. It's almost surprising to me though, that he was able to even fall asleep. Yeah, Like he must have really was able to sleep. Be Like, I just feel like I would have troubles falling asleep if you literally thought the person next to you was could murder you.

Yeah, but that might as much as I hate to give her this credit, that might just fall back onto the fact that she's just that good of a fucking lay. I don't know. Oh gosh, I mean, he's like dead asleep. He wakes up all of a sudden, he's getting like the lay of his life, and then just rolls over back to sleep again.

Well yeah, and he's probably like, oh, like we just we just did this, like nothing bad it's gonna happen. Yeah, but he literally had no idea how nuts she was exactly.

Yeah, so Catherine, unfortunately though, wasn't done killing him, wasn't just enough for her. She would then drag his body into an area where she would proceed to skin him and hang him hangs remains, in fact, from meat hooks in the living room.

Oh my gosh, that's gross.

She would proceed to decapitate his body and dismember him. Not only that, but she began preparing pieces of his flesh to cook in a dish alongside potatoes, pumpkins, beets, zucchini, cabbage, squash,

Basically, so like she literally ate some of him.

Oh yeah, she consumed him.

Huh.

She cooked and can assumed.

Him, Hey, well, can we please note that Ben is doing a cannibalism.

Case and not Nicole.

There you go, it's not always me, not always you.

There's there's there's a once for everything. First time, first time, that's that's the same. That's it.

We're really good with our words today. At least we can help each other out.

Yeah, no kidding. So yeah. She prepared the meal for herself ate at least some of it in the discard of the rest. Subsequently, she would then lay down next to some of John's mutilated remains and ingest a significant amount of pills before she lost consciousness.

Hmm, that is just so fucked well.

The last little gory detail here. Amongst all the blood and gore around the house, law enforcement encombed another gruesome sight of John's severed head boiling in a pot of vegetables on the stove. I think this is now like the third or fourth case where there's been a head boiling on the stove.

It's a thing. I don't I have absolutely no idea why.

Yeah, I don't know either, but it's apparently a thing.

It's like they're making stock for soup. Yeah, which is disturbing.

Why don't know something else very disturbing about this. No, well, they also found two more fully set plates with food and flesh set at the table, each bearing a name tag next to it.

For his kids.

Two of his kids. Oh, apparently she left out one because she liked the kid. But the other two, Yeah, there were place sets with their dads cooked remains alongside healthy servings of vegetables and gravy ready to go. She fully intended to feed the kids their dad.

Oh my gosh, this just keeps getting worse, Like, are we done yet here?

Well, what do you mean why we Like, I just.

Cannot believe that this can keep going. Well, I mean she needs okay, at this point, if she if she's alive, she needs to be in jail. And like there's no literal chance that she can get out of jail at this point.

You think, so, Yeah, okay, okay, Well, Catherine would wake up. Catherine was not dead. Police were able to wake her up on the scene, and of course, when she woke up, what do you think she did?

Oh my god, what happened?

Yeah, she played dumb and and claimed that she had no recollection of the incident that transpired.

Okay, and they didn't buy it.

I don't think so really, but who knows.

She was pretty good, Like, she was pretty good at making people like manipulative, lah, well, manipulative.

Manipulative, she was maculative. Yeah, well, just one little piece here to show her manipulation skills. There was a witness watching the police aftermath of the crime scene, the police bombarding the house because like it kind of caused a scene in the neighborhood. People were kind of gathered.

Yeah, right, that would.

And so a witness would talk about seeing Catherine actually walk out of the house with a very evil, malicious smile across her face. And at the hospital she would arrive on a bed.

What does that mean?

Catherine willingly walks out of the house smiling, But yeah, when she arrives at the hospital, she's in bed and very sick.

Ah geez, yeah, oh just like kay. Was she like a good looking person? No, okay, no, some reason, I'm just like picturing this like just this babe. No okay, well, like I have no idea how she's getting away with this shit and stuff.

I mean, objectively speaking, in her prime, was she horrible? No, I'd say she's I don't know, like average in her prime.

Okay, but yeah, huh yeah, just that's quite a visual her just like walking out of there, just completely needing help, Like you have to be careful with the words you use, right, like she needs help and just like what she just did, and she is looking like pleased with herself about it.

Yeah.

Wow.

There was one final little piece here that I'm going to talk about from the crime scene. On top of a photograph in the house of John, police also found a note Catherine had had written. It was stained with bits of blood and had bits of remaining flesh attached to it, just from residual handling. And though it's somewhat gibberish, the note reads this hopeful, hopefully you can kind of we'll walk through it a bit. Time got you back, Jonathan for raping my daughter. You to bec for Ross

Almost her kind of throwing in an excuse there for what she did.

Yeah right, yeah, kind of just saying like giving herself reason, saying, oh, this is why I did it, you know, trying to maybe give him a bad name in the aftermath too, who knows.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So Catherine and her legal team initially offered a plea of guilty to manslaughter, which is basically like, oops, I accidentally killed someone, like hitting someone with a vehicle, right, like, yah, did not mean to kill them?

Well, but tech, I honestly don't even one hundred percent feel like this could have been planned because like maybe she didn't necessarily plan to kill him, but like she has those knives in the spot and woke up and something pissed her off, and and here she went on a little rampage. Well.

The little argument for premeditation, though, is the kind of Will and Testament video prior to So it's like, oh, you're sitting here recording a video of like, oh, make sure that my kid gets this sort of thing, or like she didn't say that per se, but she henced a lot of that sort of stuff. It's like, oh, why are you kind of like doing a last Will and Testament thing? On a little video all of a sudden the night before this big murder. Clearly you were planning something.

Well, she was planning to maybe kill herself, touche, but maybe not him, but probably him. I'm just I'm just.

Well, even if that isn't the case, even if it was just a lapse in judgment a in the spur of the moment killing, she stabbed him thirty.

Seven, Well, yeah, overkilled.

She skinned him, She cut his head off, she boiled her, cooked him, she ate him. She also made vegetables alongside his fucking body.

Yeah, that needs to be more than just a premeditation.

Doesn't have to be like hours or days in advance. It can be like a few, like moments before.

Yeah.

If you intentionally say I'm gonna do this, and then seconds later you do it, that's pre meditation. Yeah, and that's exactly what she did. She's like, I'm going to fucking stab him more, I'm gonna cook him, I'm gonna eat him. I'm gonna make a plate for his kids. Like fuck that?

Yeah what? Yeah, nope, Yeah, it eats more than that.

Yeah.

Sure.

So she was like, yeah, I'll play guilty demandslaughter. Catherine would enter the plea sorry, it would be rejected, my apologies, and on March second, two thousand and one, she would officially be charged with murder of John Price, and she would enter the plea of not guilty. And though the trial was initially scheduled for the twenty third of July in two thousand and one, it would be postponed and it would eventually take place place on October fifteenth in

Okay, so this is like super disturbing. Then I'm about to say this, but if I'm like ever on a jury, this would be like the case that I want to be on. I would be so mortified and so disturbed and just sick to my stomach. But it would be like pretty fucking interesting.

I have a feeling anyone lists out there listening to a true crime.

Podcast, especially say the same thing.

Yeah, especially if they're on part two and this deep into second part of this episode. I have a feeling they're all with you on that and they.

Understand, but honestly, also, it would be traumatizing. Oh yeah, it would one hundred percent affect the rest of your life.

Though definitely it'd be fucked up.

Yeah, but it would be like, wow, it'd be fucked up a fascinating yeah.

Yeah. So during the commencement of the trials, so I covered that there will be five jurors that actually took up the opportunity to be excused from this. So Catherine's defense had initially planned to argue her case based on claims of amnesia and disassociation, okay, which apparently had the support of most psychiatrists despite their acknowledgment of her sanity. So they're like, she's sane, but psychiatrists still support the idea of amnesia and disassociation.

Yeah, that's well, I think that she was almost in some sort of state, because didn't at some point you say like there could be like a switch, Yeah.

Right, well, it seemed like that it seemed like anything could just fucking set her off. Yeah yeah, So yeah, psychiatrists are like, yeah, she's completely sane, but yeah, I think there is something there that yeah, like you're saying this switch almost so two psychiatrists concluded that Catherine suffered from borderline personality disorder as well. Oh okay, so it's kind of like almost on the lines of bipolar, which

Really, yes, she just decided to have a conscience overnight or what.

I guess. She's like, no, I'm guilty, and her legal team's like what, no, no, and she's like, no, I'm guilty. I'm pleading guilty.

Oh my gosh.

And of course they can't make her not Yeah.

Well, I mean, gosh, I feel like they should be happy. Gosh. Could you imagine defending her? Oh oh, I don't know if I couldn't accept that amount of money, Like I need endless amount of money to be able to do that.

No kidding. So her legal team, though, did apparently know that she was changing her plea on the initial day of the trial. Is now day two when she's leaning guilty on day one, they knew that she was changing her plea. However, they wanted the overnight to basically get a psychiatric evaluation to determine if she was fully comprehending the implications of a guilty and yeah, she passes like, yeah, she knows what she's doing. She's perfectly fine, she can make the call herself totally.

Yeah. But I'm like, this is good riddance, this is a good thing.

Yeah. So Catherine never gave any sort of specific reason why she suddenly changed to a guilty plea huh. Yeah, And even after changing and pleading guilty, she continued to deny responsibilities for her actions.

Though, Oh okay, that's a bit weird.

Yeah, She's like, I did it, but I didn't do but I'm not responsible for it.

I mean, unless she's kind of saying like that in that state. Yeah.

Yeah, So I think what she was trying to do with this is trying to probably get a lesser sentence. She's like, yeah, I'm just gonna play guilty, and I'm just gonna say the psychiatrists will know that I'm like disassociating, borderline personality disorder, all this sort of stuff. If she's like, I'm just gonna play guilty, they know this, then perhaps it'll be a lesser sentence. Maybe I'll just go into psychiatric care. That could have been what she's hoping for, I.

Guess, but I feel like I don't know if she just ran the course of the trial that she would have ended up getting lest But who knows.

Yeah, who knows for sure. So during the sentence hearing, when details of a gruesome act of skinning in decapitation were being described, Catherine reportedly became quote hysterical and had to be sedated. Now I can't find facts on what hysterical exactly means. I'm assuming in like a like panic attack sort of way, not like a joker laughing maniacal way.

Like almost Wow, I fucking did that? Potentially, I think so.

So on the eighth of November, Catherine Knight was sentenced to life in prison without anything of a specification on a non parole period. So there's nothing in there saying about a parole period. However, on her papers, on her prison sentence papers, there is a phrase that the sentence had to be contained in this. So it's like the sentence is like, she's due to life, no parole specifications. However, the sentence papers have to say this definitely never to be released.

Okay, oh my gosh.

Could you imagine the fucking papers saying that definitely never to be released.

Well, thank goodness they say that.

Yeah, and this marked the first time such a designation had ever and I mean ever, been imposed on a woman in Australian history, the first woman to ever serve a full or be given a full life sentence.

Huh Is she still alive? You know?

I actually that's one thing I didn't actually look up. We'll google it here at the end. I have one more paragraph. In June of two thousand and six, Catherine appealed her life sentence, arguing that a penalty of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole was overly severe for the crime she committed, but her appeal was of course denied. Now, I did assume Catherine is still alive, though I never did actually look it up. Per se, Nicole's doing it right now? What do you think?

Well, I don't what the frick's her last name? Though?

Night Okay, that's what I thought, k N I g H.

T Okay, this could take me a minute here, Shit, I think she's still alive.

I'm pretty I'm pretty sure she is, but I just didn't yes, because.

It says she's sixty seven years old.

Yeah, okay, so Catherine, yeah, is still alive. Nicole just fact checked it.

I really don't love that. I mean not that I'm saying like that I want her to die, but it's just like crazy that someone that's so like terrifying is out there is still alive.

Like, I wonder what she's thinking right now.

Oh, let's not, let's not wonder that.

How do you think someone like that would live out their days behind bars? Well, someone and I don't mean someone like that, not someone like who commits that sort of atrocity. I'm talking like bare bones. What do you think goes through a psychopath's head once they are put behind bars? Just that alone?

Well, it kind of depends because, like I need, I sort of would want to know if she has been getting help or if she's like on maybe some medication or whatever for like her mental health.

I'm sure there definitely is some help.

Because if yeah, if she wasn't, then I just think it wouldn't be pretty at all. But then if she is, I don't know, I feel like like someone like that, I think like strict routine would be really good for them. So I bet you she's actually really like doing pretty good in there.

Yeah, yeah, right, it's probably where someone like that. And I don't mean it in a negative context, we're like, yeah, fucking burn and hell no, I mean, like I think, like you say, strict routine is probably good for someone like that. I think behind bars in prison is probably the best place for someone like that because it's going to offer rehabilitation, it's going to offer structure, it's going to offer rules, it's going to offer people watching and ensuring that there's no slip ups.

Well yeah, and like I mean, there probably isn't a lot in there that's going to like set her off.

Yeah, And now all that is hoping that she is in a good prison system where yeah, those rules are being upheld. Yeah, and not like shitty guards who are like, oh yeah, I'll get your cigarettes.

For cheap, like you know, like she's really just not that old, she's not interesting, huh. Okay.

And so that is the story of Catherine Knight, the cannibal who tried to feed a man to his own children and is the psychopath who is the first woman in Australia to receive a full life sentence.

What a story, What a story.

Yeah, that was a fun one to research.

I actually think that would be hell to research.

It would be you would know, Yeah, it really would be.

I think that actually took a lot out of you. That did.

I mean, I don't feel like emotionally distraught, but I just feel like physically drained, which is weird. Usually it like hits emotionally. This one was just like fuck.

Well. Sometimes the two parters are a bit more draining too, because there's like so much information and you're trying to put it in an order that makes sense kind of, and and try not to forget things when because they do so much.

Right, Yeah, well she committed. It's so much a lot and a lot of little acts that balled up over decades, really, and it's impossible to cover every single little detail in this case. And I know we've said that a few other times before, but this was literally a lifetime of crime.

Is that her?

That's yeah?

Okay, Yeah, she's not really a looker, is she. No?

That's not her prime though, either, But no, she's not really a looker, like I say, in her prime, she's like, you know, yeah, you know, kind of.

Average huh okay, interesting, Yeah, not really what I had pictured for some mind for reason.

There are two mosquitos.

Like I think I was kind of picturing because a lot of I was kind of picturing like a psychopath man that's a good looking like Ted Bundy or like Jeffrey Dahmer or what's the Barbie Ken? What the frick's his name? Again? Oh, I'm Karla Hamoka, And.

Shit, this is why we're terrible through crime trivia. They were literally a question on this trivia too.

I can. I have absolutely no idea what his name is. There's two mosquitoes people screaming at us.

Are you hearing what I'm saying? This is the second time I've said it. There's two mosquitos in the wall behind you.

What am I supposed to do about that? Right now?

Get them, slap them, kill them, destroy them.

Well, I'm currently trying to find what this guy's name was. Oh, Paul Bernard. It is as I was picturing, kind of like a good looking person like that kind of his example.

Right, No, No, she just a good lay.

I think you'd have to be real good.

Apparently she was that.

Good, like unnaturally good.

Apparently she was.

But I also don't think I mean, guys are different. But I was like I don't. I could probably have had the best lay in my life and I would still be running from the hills from that lady.

Well yeah, fair enough, I can't argue that.

Okay, well, well done yea.

Hopefully you guys this episode. If you made it to the very end of part number two, we seriously appreciate you. We have all our links down in the description. We have Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, which we are coming out with many more vlogs.

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Oh my gosh. Okay, well, we have some mosquitoes to go and tackle here, so until.

Next week, stay wicked. That one sounded weird. You do it, You do a better job.

Now. I'm on the spot here, stay wicked.

There you go.