Katherine Knight - Part 1

What does evil look like? Do you think you could identify it if you were looking right at it? And even if you could, do you think you could explain it? Could you explain what makes someone evil? Were they born with it? Or were they made evil? Even if you knew the answer to all these questions and you could identify evil in a heartbeat, what would you do about it? Then? Do you think you could stop it? Catherine Knight is described as being pure evil. Her actions were malicious and brutal,

I'm Nicole and you're listening to Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast.

Warning the following podcast material more mature audience listener. What do you mean you don't have anything? That's right there? What's that?

It's empty?

It's empty.

I drank a lead of water today.

Well, so you have a water bottle with you but nothing to drink?

Right? Well? Yeah, I paulish it off while you were doing your thing getting ready.

The intro gotcha, So you have no.

Today and you don't either.

I've got water because well I made Margarita's for dinner.

Oh yeah, Okay, that's why I don't feel like having any.

Yeah, exactly, are we pre drank?

Okay, that's so funny here. I'm like, oh, I haven't had a drink today, and I forgot that you had a drink today.

You had a big old mar garita. It was fantastic, it was delicious. Yeah. So yeah, we're back from vacation. We had a fantastic time. Stayed in maybe a haunted hotel, in a haunted house, who knows, only because they were super old. That's why I have suspicions. But there was no ghost to be found.

Just everything everywhere we stay now we think is haunted.

Apparently I kind of just I don't know. They were. They had the vibe, you know.

But then the actual place that was haunted was the new built maybe who knows. Maybe that we stated.

Maybe it was.

You never know.

Dun, dun, dun. Yeah, but it's good to be home. It is good to be on track, get our things together.

It was June was very busy, so I feel like July it's kind of just take a deep breath.

Yeah, for sure, although we still got shit going on, like yeah.

We always we always have shit going on, but not quite as much shit, No one.

Thing that's really cool though, is we are headed down to a local brewery on Wednesday to do a local true crime trivia night, which.

Is all awesome and it sold out, like so cool, like.

That sold out. And we've been prepping for this for a while. So I got some epic and I mean epic true crime trivia questions which will probably like doing reels and shorts and stuff. Yeah, so you guys will be able to do that as well and take part.

And none of them, all of them are easy questions. No, got to bring your a game to this.

There are going to be some of them that we're going to put up there on for you guys as well, on like reels, shorts or whatever. I do not expect you guys to get it, because they are a little more tailored to our local area. So we will put those ones up there still because who knows some of you might actually still know it.

I don't only think of one.

Well the one in particular, okay, but there was, uh the other one with the highway.

Oh no hints here know No, I'm not getting okay, okay, we're gonna I'm shutting you down here that's too.

Much saying highway. Yeah, okay, fair, fair.

We got to keep this a secret because some of those people that are there might be listening to.

That that's true episode. Well, if they listen to this episode before the trivia night and they get that clue and do their homework on it in the meantime, props to them for it.

Well, yeah, like that's a big old hint.

Not really for one question. Yeah, not really, because that question can go a lot of ways.

That's true, that's true.

But we are also going to be streaming it over on our Patreon live as well. Yeah, so that's gonna be awesome. It's gonna be accessed accessible for anyone over a Patreon to join live for the whole event.

And speaking of Patreon, got some to thank, don't we.

We do. So these individuals signed up for a Patreon this week and they're going to have that behind the scenes access, the exclusive content and access to the live stream on Wednesday for the trivia. So the people who joined we have Juno, Poppy, Dina Costa, Corey Stefan, Jessica Beer, and Jessica Nice.

That's a good list of names right there, it is.

They all get that awesome access and there's some pretty wicked people right there.

Cool, thank you, that's awesome.

So you're ready to dive into today's case.

I don't know. I'm actually a little bit worried because you were some things were coming out of the office today when you were like researching.

What was I doing. I didn't tell you anything.

You didn't but you were just like, whoa or shit or whoa? That's a lot.

Well, this is a brutal case. This is the as I already mentioned, the case of Catherine Knight, Catherine Mary Knight, be more specific. Okay, we've had many requests to cover her. She's been on my list to cover for a long time, and it's it's just time to do it. And there's a lot of details within this on the build up side that I was really like, holy shit, didn't know about that. Didn't know about this?

Like you, Oh, okay, so you're about to blow our monds.

I am about to blow your minds okay, And uh, just a heads up for you guys. This is a two parter.

Oh absolutely, you're kind Yeah.

I wasn't sure if I should tell you guys, but it's gonna be in the title anyways, it'll say part one unless I really want it to be mean and just posted it.

You did do that one time, I did.

And then like next week change it to say part one, you know, which that's really mean. I don't know.

And likes to keep you guys on your toes.

I do, but I also, like, I got a soft spot for you, so I kind of want to, like, you know, keep you in the know as well.

Yeah. So so you just decided to listen to your little angel today, not.

The angel, not the devil. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Okay, Well, let's get on with the story. Ready for it? I'm ready, okay. Catherine Mary Knight committed such horrific crimes that she is considered the most brutal female murderer in Australian history, if not the most still, even if you disregard gender.

Oh wow.

Yeah. But the thing is, why is it important to include gender in that prolific most serial killer person whatever? Why is gender included in this case? Well? I want to make a big note of this because it is important that research. It's important because Reacher and sorry stumbling here right out of the gate, it's important because Reacher researchers if I can get that.

Yeah, that's a hard work for you.

Today, researchers show that men are three to five times more likely to become psychopaths than women.

Really, yes, Oh I didn't know that.

Yes, So Catherine being a psychopath is considered a very rare individual.

Really, I'm searious of why that is.

I don't know.

Interesting.

Yeah, so she is very rare because she is a cold blooded psychopath.

A female psychopathy. Okay, wow, that's that's a that's getting us ready here first.

Yeah, So starting off, we're going to go back into Catherine's past. We're going to start with her growing up and kind of get to know who she was. So Catherine was born on October twenty fourth, nineteen fifty five, in Tenorfield, New South Wales, Australia. Now Tennerfield is a relatively small community today, boasting a population number of around four thousand residents. So when Catherine was born, I'm sure

Okay.

Now, her mother, Barbara, Barbara Rogan, had previously been married to another man by the name of Jack Rogan, where she instead lived in the town of Aberdeen in New South Wales in Hunter Valley. Now together they would conceive four sons in two total, but Barbara would eventually run off with another man by the name of Ken Knight. So Ken was a co worker and a friend of Jack, but that didn't work to Ken or Barbara.

Oh wow, Yes, that's a little bit saucy, hey, just a.

Little bit, I mean even more so because Jack was apparently a supervisor at the place, so she went running off with one of his workers.

Yeah, like employees or whatever.

Exactly.

Definitely don't love that, but.

No, no, I don't think anyone really would.

Yeah.

So yeah, I mean all that mattered to them was each other and their new life. But they were going to start together, and just like you're sitting here, oh WHOA, A lot of the people in small town thought the same thing.

So they were the talk of the town.

They were the talk of the town. It was a great, big scandal. It was sweeping across Everyone was talking about it, whispering, and there was a a lot of local backlash that hit them hard. There were scowls, cold shoulders, and perhaps even I'm just saying this because it's my assumption, perhaps even threats going along with it. So Barbara and Ken were eventually forced to move because of their relationship. Now, initially they moved to a town called Marie, and Barbara

And how do we know why she couldn't take the sons.

I'm not too sure. I don't know if she wanted to, or if the father wouldn't let them.

Or write, Yeah, the father might have been like, no, you're not taking that.

I think that's kind of more so the case. I think she just kind of left them and run off, and yeah, the father was like, fuck you, I'm keeping the kids sort of thing.

Yeah, jeez, well she just broke his heart.

Yeah, I'm sure, And especially with a whole town kind of like scolding you, I don't think it's going to be very easy to just like screw you. I'm going to run away with my new man and take the kids, right. Yeah, so I think the town was kind of on his side and he was easily able to just keep the kids right. The two lovebirds, though, were now out of town and they were on their own, and they were child free. It was time for them to have a family of their own, so together they would have a

Oh she was a twin, she was.

And Catherine was delivered just half an hour after her sister Joy. So Barbara would eventually see more children in her life, though now in a different way than you're probably initially thinking. I want to clarify that when I was writing this, I'm like, I need to snuff that fire immediately, she didn't have more kids. It would be nineteen fifty nine when Catherine was four years old, her mother, Barbara's ex husband, Jack, Yeah, passed away.

Oh shit, poor Jack.

Yeah. So the two sons that were living with Jack would then move in with Barbara Ken and their family. Okay, Yeah, so they would then have a household filled with six children. That's a lot of children, it is. It's a lot of children to look after and to actually maintain a household with that many mouths to feed, yeah, is a lot to do.

That would be very expensive.

Yeah. So when they did move in, though, the only problem was these two boys had no idea the type of family they were about to move in with. The household was extremely abusive and disfunctional.

Yeah, and that was not how their household was prior to by the sounds of it, as.

Far as I know, it was not, but I don't know. I don't know the history on how Jack had treated the children.

Okay.

And because of this, though, because of this terrible household atmosphere, understandably, Catherine was not really a confident girl at a young age,

Was her mom also abusive? Am I allowed to ask that?

Yet? We'll get there.

We'll get there.

We're going to touch on Ken here and then we'll move on.

But it's just like, I'm already getting a little pissy because this is just like setting up a psychopath. Is that was that what you called her psychopath? Yep, it's litteral because I mean, nine times out of ten their child is shitty.

Yeah. Right, But that begs a question that I asked in the very beginning, one of the many questions, actually, can a psychopath be made? Or are they born? Yeah?

I don't know. I don't know the answer to that question. Yeah, I think they could be made. I do. Actually, Yeah, that's my thought.

Yeah, Well we'll talk about this one and it might swade some people one way or the other. Okay, So what Ken did was pretty brutal. Whatever he said goes. He ruled the rousse sort of thing. He was a man who wouldn't shy away from striking and assaulting both his kids and his wife.

Wow.

Now, it is also reported that he would often sexually assault and rape Barbara multiple times a day, up to ten times a day.

Apparently. Shit.

Yes, that alone is an absolutely horrific thing to go through one. It's let alone many times a day, day in day out, especially when it's by an alleged quote loved one.

Yeah, yeah, that's really disturbing.

That is fucked up, is what that is. Super fucked Ken wasn't the only monster in the home, though you were asking about Barbara, well, she was reportedly no better, no no. For context, in Catherine's adolescent years, she confided in her mother about a boyfriend, reportedly a boyfriend that wanted to do a sexual act or favor that Catherine wasn't quite ready for comfortable with at the time, and upon hearing this, Catherine's mother, Barbara simply told her, quote,

That was the advice that she gave her daughter.

That was the advice she gave her daughter.

Oh my gosh, yeah, holy shit.

So you know, I like to play devil's advocate here, so I'm gonna do that for a moment. Okay, put this into content text here.

Well, we're all processing this.

Yes, that might just be how she was dealing with her sexual abuse at home. So maybe that's the only real advice she could she had to give it.

They could muster m yeah, but generally, like you kind of want better for your kids, that's true, So then you would think you would want to change it so that they're not having like the same lifestyle as you.

Yeah, so wow, it is. Don't get me wrong, I'm not backing her up here.

Yeah, but no, I get what you're saying.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Regardless though, whether it was her intentions that way or not, Barbara seemed to give out abuse in the home basically just as much as she was receiving it. She would assault her husband, she would assault her children, both without hesitation.

Oh man, that's just I'm sorry, I'm still in this. That's just the most terrible advice.

Yeah, it is like, just shut up and put up with it. Stop complaining. Are you fucking kidding me?

And that's like your mom yeahow.

Okay, that's supposed to be someone that you can trust and rely on. Yeah, And she's like, eh, shut up, just let him do what he wants. Oh okay, yeah, no, fucking thanks No. At times when at a time, sorry, when Catherine was still very young. I'm so kind of back from when that advice occurred. It just it was

Husband, like describe it what to her kids?

Yeah, she would describe it to Catherine. She would tell her all about these very vivid details. She would spare no expense, and she would continue to talk about it, and she would tell her about her hate for her husband and how she absolutely despises men. Whoa, and this is a very young child. She is doing this too.

This is like I'm like kind of sweating here. This is really like uncomfortable. Yeah, this is uncomfortable. Shit.

Oh yeah, now you know why I was having those reactions in the office.

My gosh. Okay.

All the details of what occurred inside the broken home will never really be known because by the sounds of it, a lot happened in those walls, and some claims are contested, but many details have come forward and are corroborated by some of the siblings who lived in the home as well.

Well. Remember how at one point I was like, poor Jack. Well, I mean poor Jack because he died. But maybe he actually like dodged a bullet by having her leave.

Maybe, but she's horrid, but unfortunately he left his children.

Oh, and then had to go back to her. Oh, I wonder why they couldn't go to that other family member. Come on, yeah, brutal.

Where am I at here?

Sorry, I'm making you get distracted here by it.

Oh no, it's all good. I'm actually like looking at the notes of my phone here, and I usually don't, so I'm like kind of out of my element looking at these notes. Yeah, oh okay, here, I got it. So one detail that Catherine would speak on about some of the stuff that she endured as a young child, and is generally accepted by psychiatrists, is the fact that she was sexually assaulted and abused by many of her family members.

Many of her family members, yes.

Though thankfully at least not at the hand of her father. The smallest of silver linings, but at least that's there geez. So okay, Yeah, it's not easy for anyone to live in a house like that, let alone like a child growing up in that environment. I can't begin to fathom what that life would have been like.

And it's unfortunate because it's like a reality for.

Some people, reality for a lot of people.

Yeafe like, which is beyond sad.

Yeah, I mean beyond set. Like I don't know, it feels like that's not a heavy enough word to say, but that's that's that nails it though. It is beyond sad.

Yeah. Yeah, Like it's like you're helpless, Like it's you wish that you could help all of the people out there and stuff, but she just can't. Really.

Yeah, you're either helpless or you're hopeless. And that is so sad to say.

Oh boy, then we're real grim here today.

Yeah apparently. Wow. Okay. Anyways, as I already mentioned, though, Catherine didn't have many many friends, right okay, and she didn't make them very easily either. So Aside from her sister, she was also rather close with her uncle Oscar. But however, it would hit her hard when he ended his own life in nineteen sixty nine when Catherine was just thirteen years old.

I thought that was going to go a different way, but Okay, no.

No, thankfully, yeah yeah. So to this day, though, however, Catherine continues to claim that his ghost still visits her at times.

Oh really yes.

So the same year he passed away, the family would move to another small town called Aberdeen. Here is where Catherine began attending high school. Okay, so her mannerisms will continue here as she was, you know, an outcast and a loner. Though because of her situation growing up, Catherine seemed to develop much of a different much different than normal children would have, and she would have grown up in constant fear for her physical and physical wellbeing and

Okay, that makes sense.

And this would basically just yeah, be here coping mechanism, and in turn, it left her developing her extreme temper and lack of love because at those overwhelming times she would just disassociate.

Huh what I imagine She also wasn't really ever shown love either.

No, I can't imagine so much.

No, it was a loving household of any in any way.

Yeah, and because of all this personality sort of stuff that was going on with her when she was in high school, basically it would turn and make her become into a bully in school.

Oh really, Yes, So.

Reportedly she seemed to target boys more than any other though she really didn't seem to discriminate. It was just kind of more her general target whether she flowed to so she would get angry over benign things, and it seemed like she would just assault at least one boy per day at her school per day.

But that makes sense because of how her mom had like the hatred of yeah and your boys or whatever. Right.

Definitely, it seemed like she just hated everybody, but she specifically hated boys. It seemed like, Okay, a lot of times she was actually trying to assault them with any sort of makeshift weapons she could find, like maybe a book in the classroom or something like that. She would just like take something and like throw it at them, hit them whatever she could. A classmate of hers would actually report at a time when Catherine and her twin sister joy were arguing over a bike, so like, whose

Not there, man, Well, not these two. I don't know. I feel like there'd probably be like some tears and some yelling and someone storming off. Yeah, fair enough, it's kind of how I think it would go.

Maybe normal, maybe a push or a shove something like that.

I don't even know if I would see that necessarily.

Okay, but like if it got physical, maybe a push or a shove will probably be as far as it goes, right, Well, these two girls, that was not the case. Far from it. They baled their fists up and they began to full out fist fight each other, punching each other as hard as they could while rolling on the ground. And that was just normal for them.

Oh my gosh. Yeah, that was literally how they would just get through an argument.

Yeah, they just beat the absolute shit out of each.

Other, Oh my gosh.

Because that's how they dealt with it.

Huh wow, right there, is just like a very descriptive of their childhood and stuff like it really is. It really paints a picture there.

Huh yeah, yeah, sorry. Another story would tell about Catherine how she would actually injure be injured sorry, by a teacher on the school grounds.

The teacher injured her, or she injured a teacher.

The teacher injured her, okay, and after kind of questions about it, they figured out that the teacher actually did it in self defense, oh my gosh, against Catherine.

Oh yeah. Everyone was probably just like praying that this and none of these kids were in like their class, or that they didn't end up having them in their class.

Kay, oh definitely. Now, However, this wasn't Catherine's general normal behavior. She was a well behaved kid. She was kind of quiet, she was kind of reserved and shy. She would just snap at times out of nowhere. Okay, she would be actually rewarded for good behavior from the teacher quite a bit. Like she wasn't a very good student like academic wise, but her behavior generally was good. But something would just set her off and she would fly off the fucking handlebars.

Really, so it was just a switch almost.

Her brain exactly which again comes to that whole disassociation thing. Catherine will be fifteen though when she did drop out of high school. She was nearly illiterate at the time that she left. But despite not having any sort of like illiterate literal literary skills or any sort of qualifications really, she was able, able bodied, and managed to get a job at a clothing factory cutting fabrics pretty much right away.

Okay, well, that's good she was able to get a job. Yeah, it sucks that she had to drop out of.

School, though, I agree, But I mean we are talking in the seventies though, Yeah, so it was kind of like a lot of people dropped out of school. It wasn't it was abnormal to graduate grade twelve, you know. It would be a year later, though, twelve months when Catherine obtained what she describes as her quote dream job, which was working at the local arbiter. I think I said that, right, and another word for an arbitoire.

That's what Okay, I was like, I have no idea what that is even.

Arbuitoire is how they say and another word for an arbitoire. And this is how I'm gonna be referring to it from here and out is a slaughterhouse.

Oh and that was her dream job.

Hey, that was her dream job. Now there's two parts to this. Devil's advocate here, Okay, okay, So being a butcher is by no means a red flag No, in my opinion, No, it's not. It's a legit job. I've done some butchering before. It's bloody, sure, it's kind of gross. Sure, violent, not by any means.

If you describe it kind of as like a butcher like that, it doesn't sound as bad as like her dream jobs working in a slaughterhouse. Yeah.

Well yeah, but I mean, like if you go to like many supermarkets or delis, you have a guy behind the counter cutting up meat.

Yeah, and I would definitely not like be alarmed.

By that person exactly. So like most people who do this job, they're not violent. It's not creepy as fuck. A lot of people do it.

It's actually an awesome skill to have.

It really is. Yeah. Now, second piece to this, Catherine did have a reason for this being her dream job or why she wanted to work in this slaughterhouse. Much of the surrounding area in these small towns depended on this. This was the industry, the cow farming was huge. Many people she knew worked at this place, the slaughterhouse. Her father worked there, her brothers worked there. It was a place to go get a good paying job for many people in the area.

Okay, that makes sense then.

Like for us here in northern BC, forestry is the main thing that drives you know, the economy.

Yeah, like you're working in a sawmill or planer or palt mill or.

Exactly, it's just normal around here. Yeah, and that's kind of what it was for Catherine. It was just normal.

Okay. Describing that makes it's not like as alarming to me.

No, I mean, in hindsight, it's like, okay, maybe there are some some red flags there a little bit, but it's not a red flag for just a normal person to work there, you know, right. Yeah, So Catherine started working here. She started working at the bottom of the ranks in the workforce, cutting up scrap meats and organ meats, that sort of thing. But she would quickly move up and she would be promoted to boning, where she would basically, with precision, remove the meat from the bones of the beef.

Day, like like cows.

Yes, holy heck, which is a lot? That is so much? Yeah, so it's like it's a big factory, right, it's not a small little place. Like a lot of people worked here, A lot of people in these surrounding towns came here, did this sort of thing. It was just it was what drove their economy. It was her industry.

Yeah.

So along with this position, though, Catherine also got her own set of butcher's knives for her job. So having her own set of these knives manes that you are basically looking after them. You're caring for them and suring they're sharp, ready for work, ready for your shift and everything, right. And Catherine was elated with this and took pride in her knives so much so that they were her most prized possession.

Okay, but is it kind of like they earned their knife their knives kind of Oh yeah, definitely. Okay, so that makes it. That makes some sense.

It does make some sense. But what doesn't really make a whole lot of sense is that at home she even hung her knives above her bed so they would quote would always be handy if I needed them. Oh shit, that's a little bit of a red flag there.

Yeah, that's that's a little bit next level yeap, unnecessary yep, yeah, okay.

So that's a bit crazy, I'm out sort of thing.

I mean, but sometimes people will have a weapon of sorts by their bed.

That's true in case.

Yeah, but if.

You're if it's like your most prized possession that you take from work and you hang above your like, I don't know, it just seems a little bit too attached.

It's a bit weird, it's a bit odd.

Yes, And this is a habit she would reportedly continue everywhere she lived until her eventual arrest and incarceration.

Oh okay, and I'm imagining she probably got some good use of these knives.

Well, I mean she worked with them every day outside of work. Yeah, I know what you were aunt saying. So while Catherine was working happily at her job, she began to spend a lot of time, like you know, away from work. You know, you've got to go somewhere when you're not in shift, right, with a new guy that she met in nineteen seventy three. So this man was a coworker of hers, and his name was David Stanford Kellet. So David unfortunately was a very heavy drinker.

Okay, Oh, so probably gave her like reminded her of her father maybe thinking, Okay.

Very possible. And I do want to say, like, and those substance abuses never justified, Like, I mean, there's reasons that make it like more understandable, right, But it's like substance abuse is not like, don't do that. But he at least did have somewhat of a good reason for his substance abuse. He was likely suffering. And this is my diagnosis here from PTSD as he was involved in

That would be hard to witness, I mean friend or not.

Gosh, yeah, definitely. And I don't know the details on how the accident occurred, what exactly happened to the friend, but a lot of these sort of incidents during this is usually between two cars.

Yeah, like it wouldn't have been pretty no.

And the second one was he reportedly rescued injured individuals from a school bus. Injured children from a school bus that had been struck by a train.

Oh wow.

In the incident, six children reportedly lost their lives.

Oh my gosh. So he had like some super trauma that he was dealing with. Yes, and then back then, who knows if, like if the help that he needed was even readily available, right?

Oh no, I highly doubt it was available. Yeah, so he was carrying some shit and his shoulders. Like I mentioned, I'm pretty sure saying he had PTSD is kind of spot on with that assessment.

Yeah, but then that wouldn't have probably even been like a thing that they well back then, would they still thought had like the diagnosis.

I think they would have, like in the seventhies of.

War and stuff.

Probably, yeah, yeah, they would have, but I don't think it would have been as commonly recognized. So it's hard to say with him, though, he did eventually lose his job though due to a parent deteriorating behaviors and performances at work.

He was probably drinking at.

Work, yeah, perhaps trying to deal with the trauma, that's all wrapped up in his head, and from there he would go on to get his job at the Slaughterhouse, where he would meet Katherine. Okay, so his drinking may have started as a coping mechanism, but he had turned into a loud, obnoxious, party type alcoholic who was always getting out of control. He was just the man for

Okay.

So David would soon learn that Catherine was much more than he bargained for.

That's probably the nicest way you could put that.

Hey, yeah, that's yeah, I think so.

Oh gosh.

So after David popped the big question proposing to her, the couple would get married married in nineteen seventy four.

Oh shit, so he even married her.

He definitely got married to her.

Okay.

So, at Catherine's request, they would arrive to their ceremony on Catherine's motorcycle, with her driving and David on the back holding onto her. Now it was quite the sight, as Catherine actually as much taller than David is He's a rather short individual, and Catherine's quite tall, and David was clearly very intoxicated.

Which is actually illegal, is it not. Oh yeah, yeah, Like you can't be signing those kind of documents when you're intoxicated.

Oh, I thought you meant like riding on the back of a motorcycle.

Oh that.

Too, I guess, yes, yeah, okay, both those things. So when they arrived at their wedding, the moment they arrived at the ceremony, before they could even walk down the aisle, Catherine's mother, Barbara, pulled David aside for some motherly advice.

Oh I'm intrigued to see what the fuck this advice was.

Well, this was coming from David, So, remembering back to what she had told him, David said this quote. The old girl said to me, watch out. You better watch this one or she'll fucking kill you. Stir her up the wrong way or do the wrong thing, and you're fucked. Don't ever think of playing up on her. She'll fucking kill you. And that was her mother talking. She told me she's got something loose, she's got a screw loose somewhere.

Oh my gosh, I'm surprised that you didn't run for the goddamn hills.

No shit.

Could you imagine if, like you're the person you're marrying their parents said that to you right before you're about to like walk down the aisle, would you not question like what you're doing?

I mean maybe for sure, but I mean, like David kind of brushes off. I'm sure he's heard stories of Catherine's mother, Catherine growing up, the shit she said to her, how she was treated.

So she probably He probably just thought she was crazy or kind of had a screw loose or whatever she said about Catherine.

Yeah, yeah, he's thinking, yeah, Catherine's a crazy one. Sure, Like you know, he's probably thinking, Barbara, you're the one who's got a screw loose.

Yeah.

So yeah, he didn't. He didn't listen to her.

Huh.

He didn't take her advice.

That's terrifying though, gosh, okay, yeah.

So he didn't take the words to heart. They walked down the aisle and they said the I dos, and this was supposed to be the happiest day of their life. But things would take a very dark turn that very same night.

Are you about to end this episode?

No? Not yet?

Okay. I was like, you better not not yet. I was already glaring at you.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, we good. Don't worry. Don't worry.

Next paragraph.

David would wake up after falling asleep on their wedding night with Catherine straddling him and her hands wrapped around his throats, attempting to strangle him on.

Their fucking wedding night, on.

Their fucking wedding night. What the actual Yeah? Okay, so it's not exactly clear how David managed to wrestle himself free, but luckily for him, he was able to save himself for the situation and he made it through this assault, this attack. But Catherine would tell him she was furious with him because they only had sex three times that night.

Oh wow, yes, okay, and because that's honestly where I thought you were going. I was like, oh, there's like she's straddling him. Okay, wow, you're really telling less about their wedding night. Eh.

Oh yeah, I am, I very much, so am.

But I thought in like a good way, Like I thought it was a good way at first, but okay, three she was upset.

She was upset it was only three times, and she's she was pissed. Do you know why? Because apparently her mom was so vocal about her sex life and her experiences that Catherine knew her parents had sex five times on the night that she got married, so Catherine assumed they needed to do the same thing, thinking that was just normal and what was expected.

Geez. Yeah, Oh, I don't even know what to say. That's just like.

A lot.

Yeah. Interesting, and her like her mum was probably just like spelling shit.

Probably she's probably just bullshitting.

But exaggerating, like being Yeah.

Also, if her husband did have a libido to sexually assault her up to ten times a day, that might not be surprising, I guess, But I mean that is a lot though, Like that is a lot, Yeah, like a lot.

Could you imagine waking up and someone just pissed because you only had sex with them three times that night? Oh my gosh. I think I would actually probably not be able to contain myself my laughter there.

If they're strangling you, maybe not.

Oh, and then I'd try to probably look into an annulment of sort.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, needless to say, this was quite the wedding night for these two, and basically this night would paint the way for what their marriage would look like in the coming years, with violence and with fits of rage. So by the age of twenty though, Catherine would now be pregnant and the couple would be expecting their first child. So, on one occasion during her pregnancy, Catherine decided to take all of her husband's close and his shoes, throw them into a pile, and light them

Holy shit.

So she did all this because she suspected him of not being loyal in the relationship.

Ok well, that's kind of fair.

I mean, you shouldn't light his clothes on fire and strike him on the backhead with a fire frying pan, But.

You would have to be certain.

Even if you're certain, you shouldn't.

Do that, right, Yeah, you shouldn't do that.

Wow, Okay, carry on, whoa gotcha? Never cheat on Nicole? Holy shit. Anyways, she did all this because she expected him of cheating, basically because he had returned home late one evening from a game of from a dark tournament where he had made it into the finals. So, I mean, he's out there playing darts. He's making it into deeper and deeper in tournaments. He's taken longer longer, So yeah, I get it.

Yeah.

Now, in later years, David did admit to actually cheating on his wife and her suspicions were true.

Holy shit.

Ye okay, So a friend of David's would actually talk about this in an interview about how David confided in this, basically saying, yeah, he was young, he was dumb, he was doing shit he shouldn't have been doing. But it was also he was not happy at home.

Well yeah, yeah, like it was almost probably he never knew what the hell he was going home to.

Yeah, there was just violence and again like she would be happy then all of a sudden something would change and she would snap.

Yeah, and she could even be making up shit two in her head right, exactly full.

So regardless though, after being struck with a frying pan in the back of the head, David was days and in fear of his life, so he ran outside to the neighbor's house, where he would collapse in their home. Cops were called, and via Catherine's convincing, he didn't press any charges, but he did get taken to the hospital where he was treated for a severe skull fracture. Wow, she struck him that hard.

That's pretty hard, yes, huh.

On May eleventh, nineteen seventy six, Catherine would give birth to their daughter, daughter Melissa Anne. The same month, May of nineteen seventy six, David would leave Catherine for another woman. Oh really, yes, and the two would move to Queensland. So soon after, Catherine would commit an absolutely atrocious crime, and I mean atrocious one that even criminals will try to kill you for when you're in prison. She attempted to kill her own newborn daughter.

In spite of him leaving. Hey, ess basically or maybe not.

Well, we'll get into this here.

Oh man.

So Catherine was seen walking down the street with her daughter in the stroller and reportedly violently swerving it. And I do want to say violently is the word used to describe this violently swerving it from side to side. She was screaming and yelling in fits of rage as she walked with the stroller. Onlookers were deathly afraid that she was actually to push the stroller into oncoming traffic. Thankfully, before anything like that happened, she was taken into custody.

Okay, yeah, okay, so.

She was being treated for depression and she spent several weeks recovering before being released. Upon her release, however, she took her now two month old daughter to the nearby railway tracks and placed her daughter on the railway line where a train was due to come soon, and she left her there.

Oh my fuck, seriously, yes, why? Holy shit?

Yeah? Okay, So, thankfully, unbeknownst to Catherine, a local homeless man was in the area, a man by the name of Old Ted, and he saw this, and he walked up and found oun Melissa laying on the track. Yeah, laying on the track.

Jeez.

So Melissa was thankfully saved, and only by a few minutes. Oh my god, because it was not long after the train came streaming, screaming down the tracks. If it wasn't for Old Ted, she would know Old Ted have survived.

And please tell me that she never went back with her mom. Okay she did. Wow, Holy shit.

I'm just going to hold onto this here.

Well.

Old Ted reported the incident to authorities, and it didn't take long for them to identify little Melissa because Melissa's mom, Catherine, had gone into town, stolen an axe out of someone's backyard, and was wielding it around her head, threatening to kill people. Understandably, she was quickly arrested and readmitted into Saint Elmo's Hospital.

Well, yeah, it's actually amazing that she got released.

Yeah. What's even more amazing is she was released again that very same day.

Oh yeah, Okay, that is actually yeah, yeah.

Because she miraculously recovered and signed herself out.

There's no way she should have been in there for a while, like getting some help.

Yeah, most definitely. So in hindsight, it's clear to us that Catherine is not fit to, i mean, leave the hospital. But one way or another, she managed to fool the doctors. So once she was out, she continued her wrath, fueled primarily by anger and jealousy of her husband leaving her for another woman. Her focus was on David. She woned revenge, and she was willing to go to extreme lengths to get it.

Okay, I just have to say two things. First of all, it just popped in my head. I'm surprised that David didn't take Melissa, that he like left her with the mom you know. Yeah, and then second of all, but psychopaths are like very charming, usually write and persuasive, So that's probably how she might have been when she was in the hospital. Yeah, potentially, right, like easy to just talk her way out of shit and stuff.

Yeah. So, less than twenty four hours after she signed herself out of the hospital, Catherine's violent actions would continue. She made her way over to a neighbor's house, asking them for help. She told them that her daughter, Melissa was sick and she needed someone to drive them to the hospital together so she can be looked at. So the neighbor agreed, Catherine walked back over to their house.

Oh boy.

Katherine chased them and even slashed a large cut across the woman's face, and she threatened to kill them if they didn't do what she said. She wanted them to drive her to David's mother's house.

Oh wow.

Her intentions were if she couldn't have David, then David couldn't have his mother.

Oh okay, okay, Oh sorry, I totally misheard that wanted to go to David's mom's house. Not David's house. Yes, okay, sorry. For some reason, I think in my brain just was like going to David's house. No, David's mom.

She wanted them to drive to David's mother's house so she could kill David's mom.

Yep.

And that's where we're going to end this episode.

Oh my gosh, I felt like it was coming to an end. Heerh wow. Okay, okay, just okay, I mean this one is what is quite a lot here? Yeah you think, yeah, like for the next week now, I'm just gonna be like in deep thought over this. This person.

Did I break you? Is your brain broken right now?

A little bit? Actually, I'm processing so much shit right now that I my little innocent brain would never have thought could be. So just bear with me.

Okay, I'll bear with you. I got it.

I am very surprised. Sometimes that shit still stocks me so much.

I can tell. Do you feel like a drink now?

Maybe?

Maybe this is an absolutely wild case. Researching it has been very interesting, to say the least. I'm kind of glad I'm doing a deeper dive on this one.

Sometimes I honestly find it not easier, but like because you're more in control when you're researching it, almost like doesn't affect me as much as like me just like stet like sitting here and standing here whatever listening. Yeah, fair enough, No, because and then you're literally having to process all the shit in like such a small period of time.

And well, researching it you can you can absorb it and read it at your own pace. Yeah, right, So we take the time we research it. We stand the same topic for a little while, we read several articles about the same thing, we write it out ourselves, and then that's a lot of time to, like you say, process it before you move on to the next piece of information. Yeah, this it's just right across your face.

A slap in the face.

Yeah that was a very low, like low sounding clap, her slap.

But it's also amazing that I don't I have never heard of her.

You've never heard of her?

No, really no, which is bizarre.

I'm sure you have, you just don't recognize the case yet because we're still her early years.

It's true. Oh gosh, Lord knows what she's going to get up to.

Yeah, Ben knows it's not cool. I'm sure a lot of people out there listening to this episode also know it's not cool. It's a lot so heads up on that. But well, we'll buckle up and we'll talk all about it next week, next Tuesday, next Tuesday. Yeah, So should we maybe do a post show today from Patreon talk about this, maybe unfold some of your emotions you're dealing with right now.

I don't even know, let's do it. I might just be like, still stunned.

We're gonna do a quick little post show. If you're on Patreon or wanting to sign up, the link is down below. You can go ahead and sign up. We appreciate it. It really supports the show. If not, that's totally cool too. But we have all our links down there, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, which we are actually actively vlogging on now.

Yeah, there's we never even mentioned that yet that there's a new new blog up. Yeah, I have video up. That's cool.

So link is down below, go check it out. We're gonna be doing a lot more vlogs coming up. Yeah, all the good stuff is down there, including also the link to go listen to our podcast Fearful.

So there's a lot of goodies down there, look at so.

Go check it out. In the meantime though, like I said, we'll see you next week or maybe we'll see you on Patreon.

Yeah, so entil Part two, Stay wicked.