Jerry Brudos - The Shoe Fetish Slayer - Part 2 - podcast episode cover

Jerry Brudos - The Shoe Fetish Slayer - Part 2

Jan 10, 20251 hr 2 minEp. 251
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Episode description

Jerry Brudos, famously known as the "Shoe Fetish Slayer" or the "Lust Killer," is a haunting example of how twisted psychology can lead to violent crimes. What started as an obsession with women’s shoes and clothes spiraled into horrific murders, showing just how dangerous deep-rooted psychological issues can become. His crimes stunned the nation and raised serious questions about the connection between paraphilia and predatory behavior.Our other podcast: "FEARFUL" - https://open.spotify.com/show/56ajNkLiPoIat1V2KI9n5c?si=OyM38rdsSSyyzKAFUJpSyw

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Website: https://www.wickedandgrim.com/Wicked and Grim is an independent podcast produced by Media Forge Studios, and releases a new episode here every Tuesday and Friday.

Our other podcast: "FEARFUL" - https://open.spotify.com/show/56ajNkLiPoIat1V2KI9n5c?si=OyM38rdsSSyyzKAFUJpSyw
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Website: https://www.wickedandgrim.com/

Transcript

Speaker 1

Last episode, we began the story of Jerry Brutos, also known as the Shoe Fetish Slayer. Today, we're carrying on with part two, so be sure to check out part one before listening. Today.

Speaker 2

My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and.

Speaker 1

Grim, a true crime podcast.

Speaker 2

Warning.

Speaker 1

The following podcast material intended for a matural audience. Listener discretion is advised. You gotta drink ready, I do you do? Do you guys have a drink ready? I've got a drink ready. We record in the morning. I'm not having whiskey per se, as I promised last episode, because it is eight am. Maybe if we recorded any evening I would, But today I've got coffee and Carolan's. I've irished it up. We good. Make sure you have a comfort drink too, because you're gonna need it today.

Speaker 2

I have Greens. Is that considered a comfort drink?

Speaker 1

I think? So? I don't even know what greens is or that's just.

Speaker 2

Like that like a supplement of Okay, yeah, but it actually doesn't taste terrible, So we're okay, We're okay.

Speaker 1

Like I say, the point of having a quote drink with us is a comfort drink. It can be water if you need hydrating. It could be coffee, it could be whiskey, it could be beer. It's a drink that you find you can just kind of have your security, blank the edge off and sip away when you need it.

Speaker 2

You know, distracts you.

Speaker 1

Yes, distracts you that there you go, distracts you, takes you, snaps you back to the reality of your real world rather than the world you're listening to. So hopefully you have something like that right now that can do that. Maybe you even have I don't know, a little doggle by your side.

Speaker 2

You can reach out pack man. That is the best of comfort. Really, there's nothing better.

Speaker 1

Well, we have our one dog, Ripley, who's like an mpath dog. She can sense when you're upset and she'll come over and just like rest your head on your lap and stare at you.

Speaker 2

Well, in anytime better and I hug she like instantly, she goes right in between our legs, like she joins our hug. It is it is the like, we need to get that on video. It's the sweetest cutest thing I've ever seen.

Speaker 1

Yeah, She'll be laying there and then we hug and then she'll just stand up and come walk come running over and just like walk in between her legs and put herself in the middle. Oh man, it's adorable, Like who.

Speaker 2

What kind of dog does that?

Speaker 1

That is just I know. Anyway, Yeah, we digress, We digress. Are you ready to carry on with part two? Oh?

Speaker 2

I think so? Yeah, You're gonna give us a little recap there.

Speaker 1

Okay, I will. Yes. So we started the story of Jerry Brudos, right, a man known as the shoe fetish Slayer also sometimes the lust Killer. There's a few different names he's gone by, but those are the primary ones. And he went through a few attempted abductions that did not go according to his plan. How the remains of some of his victims were discovered. We talked about last

time as well and his initial arrest. Then we began talking about who Jerry Brudos was, starting with his upbringing and mentioning the inciting incident that psychologist believes to be when his fetish and tendencies really began.

Speaker 2

And that's where we left off with his mother kind of thing.

Speaker 1

Yes, with the incident with his mother and berating him in shoes and women's clothing.

Speaker 2

And then wishing he was a girl.

Speaker 1

And then he found a pair of shoes, discarded high heeled shoes, brought them home, and his mother was irate made burn them in front of him, and those were his prize possession sort of thing. Right, So yeah, that's where we left off, and we have a lot more to cover to trust.

Speaker 2

Me, I'm sure we do. Yeah, okay, So.

Speaker 1

You ready for this?

Speaker 2

I am all right.

Speaker 1

So we're going to start by continuing to look at Jerry in his early life, leading all the way up to his arrest. So here we go. So after that incident with his mother and losing those shoes, life kind of went on for little Jerry. But one day in first grade, Jerry became captivated by his teacher's habit of switching into high heels at the start of each day. She had come in like sneakers or whatever, right, and

then switch into high heels for work. Basically okay, and she clearly had a love for fashion, even keeping an extra pair of heels tucked under her desk. Now, whatever the practical reason was for this spared pair of shoes with a fashion or in case a heel breaks, who knows, it doesn't matter, and it didn't matter to Jerry either. What mattered was how badly he wanted those shoes. So that day, Jerry's focus wasn't on his lessons in the classroom,

but on the shoes instead. He spent hours staring at them, building up the nerve to try and take them for himself. Finally, when the teacher wasn't looking, did quietly he slipped the high heels into his backpack, thinking he had gotten away with his first heist. But his victory was short lived. Another student noticed Jerry sneaking the shoes away and reported it to the teacher. When he was approached about this

by the teacher, he was embarrassed. He was humiliated in front of the class, and he bolted out of the classroom, his face just burning red with shame from what he did. Right So, that failed theft may have been a small incident, but it was a glimpse at the compulsions that were beginning to haunt Jerry.

Speaker 2

It's so hard I just have to say, for me to even comprehend that, like a little one year old or not one year first grader is six is so fixated on something like that, you know, Like I don't know, I just think back to myself for like other first graders, and I just you're like so care free and you're just all over the place. And but he's just like already has this like obsessive compulsive disorder kind of thing, right, like.

Speaker 1

Oh, one hundred percent he does.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

But the thing is this isn't naturally developing with him. He was instilled with this from those actions of his mother, right.

Speaker 2

Yeah, but it just seems like so young to be having, you know, like in this sort of thing.

Speaker 1

It is. I don't think like at this age, I don't think it's a fetish sort of thing. I don't think it's a sexual thing at least not yet. Yeah, it's just he has this obsession with the shoes.

Speaker 2

It's almost his comfort I think.

Speaker 1

Yeah, like he wants to wear them, he enjoys it, you know, that sort of thing, and he was forced to do it behind closed doors. He's forced to be shameful about it. So now it's just like he I mean, if his mother just gave him a fucking pair of high heels, he probably would have played with him for a week a month and then like got bored of them, and that would have been that got it out of

his system per se. And that's just me like speculation. Possibly, but it is possible, and maybe he would have moved on with his life, but he didn't. He didn't have that upper tunity. So he's got to sneak around and be careful and do it behind closed doors when no one's looking, and he rarely gets that opportunity, especially at this age. Oh jeez. So during his teenage years, Jerry became a little bit infamous in his neighborhood for his

troubling behavior. He was known for sneaking into nearby homes to steal women's underwear, which he hoarded in secret. Every time he was caught, his mother subjected him to harsh punishments, beatings, verbal humiliation, things that only deepened his resentment and shame. As he got older, his actions escalated even further. He began stalking women who walked out alone at night, lurking in the shadows and waiting for that opportunity when he

could strike on them. When he found a vulnerable target, Jerry would attack, often strangling the women until they were unconscious. He didn't harm them further after that, but he would steal their shoes as trophies. Before fleeing the scene. Man, Yeah, imagine waking up without your shoes after an attack like that.

Speaker 2

Well, and I feel like that could easily go wrong though too, Like how does he for sure no one to stop? And you know, like I feel like you could easily he could accidentally kill one of them, even if he wasn't intending to.

Speaker 1

It's possible if you go too far, for sure. Now, by Jerry's mid teens, his behavior has had caused enough trouble that the family did decide to move to a new town in Oregon. His parents hoped that a fresh start and a new environment might help Jerry leave his troubling reputation behind. Unfortunately, the move did little to curb his escalating behavior, as his obsession and impulsions just followed him wherever he went. Sorry, it's morning. I'm not doing

so well with my voice right now. I need more SIPs of coffee. So but just at sixteen years old, Jerry spent an entire weekend out, you know, in this new place in Oregon, digging a deep pit on a hillside, away from prying eyes. He went out here all alone, and he began digging the pit, and he fantasized to himself about imprisoning a woman and having her captive here

in this pit. Yes, he pictured having a woman helped captive in a fucking pit, and he's like, oh, just thinking about how she could be begging for freedom and that sort of thing, very silence of the Lamb's esque, which, as I mentioned in episode one, this there is some influence from this case that went into the movie and Buffalo Bill.

Speaker 2

See when you've were talking about this pit, my first reaction was that he was just going to store some of his stolen shit in there, not like a freaking woman.

Speaker 1

No, he planned on having a person in there. Okay, Now, thankfully no individual ever saw the inside of this pit. This pit, this pit, this pit.

Speaker 2

Oh we're really in for this Okay. Yeah, I'm already just like sitting here just shocked by everything.

Speaker 1

Yeah, you should be, because it's fucked now. When Jerry was seventeen, he put together a plan to get a local girl alone. He took a pair of her underwear, and then he pretended that he knew who was responsible for it, and then he wanted to help this girl get this pair of underwear back. So he's like, I can help you. You know what, I know, who did it? Come over to my place, and we're gonna go through this and we're gonna get figured out for you.

Speaker 2

Right.

Speaker 1

So he invited her over to his home, and as soon as she arrived on step inside, he then grabbed her with face mask on so covering his face, and he grabbed her wielding a kitchen knife.

Speaker 2

Holy shit.

Speaker 1

He then forced this girl to strip and posed for dozens of photographs before letting her go. What so that's seventeen.

Speaker 2

Oh man, okay, Yeah.

Speaker 1

The girl was absolutely terrified. Yeah, and left their home in tears and immediately reported the ordeal to the police, but for one reason or another, no arrests were ever made. What the Yeah, it seems like that's a pretty fucking serious incident. I don't know why that didn't go anywhere.

Speaker 2

Well, yeah, and did he not imagine that she would go and report this? Like? What the what was he? Oh?

Speaker 1

God, that's just so gross, I know, right, Like there's there's not understandable when someone attacks, but like I get that they're like trying to cover their face and like they're going through the attack to trying to remain anonymous. Meanwhile, he lured her here and it's his home. You think this isn't gonna like trace back to you? Yeah, you think that face mask is gonna, you know, maybe solve it.

Speaker 2

He figured that she He's like threatened her enough that she wouldn't say that could be like an option, I guess.

Speaker 1

But but she's probably like, I know who this fucking was.

Speaker 2

So yeah, I'm glad she did report it.

Speaker 1

Yeah, but he did get away with that one. Like I said, no arrests were made, And the following year, Jerry decided to try his luck with a similar plan, so he kidnapped a seventeen year old girl in his car. He then took her to a secluded area with a deserted farmhouse, and he took her to this farmhouse. There

he began to beat the girl severely. Now, thankfully, there was a couple that was walking past the property at the time and they heard the girl's screams coming from this abandoned farmhouse and they went to see what was happening. That was when they found Jerry looming over his helpless victim.

Speaker 2

Oh gosh, okay, the fact that they went and investigated is pretty pretty incredible.

Speaker 1

It is pretty daring. So put on them. Honestly, they probably saved this girl's life, no kidding, But he was caught red handed, though Jerry did attempt to spin a bizarre kind of claim. He's like, oh, I was just helping this girl. I already scared off the real attacker.

Speaker 2

All of shit.

Speaker 1

Yeah. I'm pretty sure that was the couple's reaction too, because they didn't buy his story at all, and they called police pretty much immediately. Oh what an I know, He's just like, oh no, I'm the hero. Yeah, I'm pretty sure this girl is gonna fucking tell that couple otherwise. But when Jerry was confronted, he did confess to everything about it and everything like his perversions, all this sort

of stuff. So a subsequent search of his room occurred, and it revealed a hidden stash of stolen women's underwear and of course some non consensual photographs. His now twisted collection lay bare for everyone to see, and it was all taken away from him. He was stripped of his trophies and exposed. Jerry was left humiliated and defeated and forced to face the consequences. Now, it's unclear of exactly

what his arrest occurred with this one. I do know that he had an incriminating file after this, but I do know he was not necessarily sent to prison by the sounds of it. He was sent to a psych word in Oregon State Hospital instead. Okay, because here he underwent a battery of psychological evaluations. He was officially diagnosed with borderline schizophrenia, sexual fetishism, and what they euphemistically described as severe psychological mum or sorry, severe pathological mummy issues.

Speaker 2

Oh wow.

Speaker 1

Yeah. So, despite his his commitment to the psych ward and trying to get better, Jerry was still allowed to actually attend high school at the same time, and he did manage to graduate in nineteen fifty seven. Now, his nine months in the psych ward didn't cure his disturbing tendencies though. Instead they gave him the tools to suppress them, or at least hide them well enough to convince anyone else that he was in fact cured.

Speaker 2

Okay, because he probably almost needed longer in there, which Okay, the people that were initially like investigating this and found all this shit, they were probably just like, wow, like, we have a huge problem here. Yeah, and they I don't know, I feel like they could have nipped it in the butt potentially, but they didn't I don't know, didn't have him in there long enough or something. I guess.

Speaker 1

I see, I disagree. I don't think you.

Speaker 2

Don't think it's possible.

Speaker 1

I don't think. I don't think he was reformable. I don't think it was possible to reform Jerry Brutos at all at this point.

Speaker 2

No, it's far too already too far.

Speaker 1

Okay, you have to remember at this point, he's what eighteen, He's been going through this for nearly two decades of his life. Remember, his mother was berating him in women's clothing as like as younger than five, because five was the incident with the shoes when he stole them and they burned in front of him. So even if we make that five year old the landing point for all this, that leaves twelve years of this instilled within him.

Speaker 2

Yeah. I mean, it's just so interesting though it started just like with women's shoes, and it's sure fricking progress.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Now, I do want to say, if he was able to be reformed, I think it would have taken several decades, not just like, oh I'll give him a year or two. No, I'm thinking I'm talking like give him fucking twenty thirty years and maybe because I think this is so deep, this is literally who he is.

Speaker 2

Yeah, no, it would definitely have taken some more time than nine months.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Now, after his discharge from the hospital, Jerry attempted to turn over a new leaf by joining the military. At the time, his assault conviction and psychological diagnosis weren't flagged as issues because I mean, hey, it is like, what the nineteen sixties, so yeah, or at least almost the nineteen sixties. I think it was still late nineteen fifty, but anyways, I digress. He was accepted without question, but

Jerry's time in the service was short lived. He his main ambition during this time, disturbingly, was to be try and get stationed in Korea, where he fantasized about a Korean woman seducing him and fulfilling his dominating fantasies.

Speaker 2

Jeez, yeah, that is like such a reason to join the military, hey.

Speaker 1

Right, Instead, he was sent to Fort Gordon, Georgia, where his bizarre behavior quickly drew attention. Jerry was advised to meet with a military psychiatrist, and during their session he spoke openly about his troubling domination fantasies. Not The exact details of the discussion remained unclear, but his military record noted that he was discharged for bizarre obsessions. His brief attempt at military life had ended in utter failure. After discharge,

Jerry returned home to Oregon. His parents allowed him to move back, but only under the strict conditions that he wasn't allowed to sleep in the house. Instead, he had to sleep in the farm shed.

Speaker 2

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1

Yeah, just continuing that shaming beration of their child.

Speaker 2

Just like parents of the fricking year. Hey yeah, holy shit.

Speaker 1

Isolated, Jerry's first strations grew. Feeling stripped of all his dignity, all his control, he reverted to his old ways to vent out his anger. Jerry stalked and attacked a random woman, strangling her until she lost consciousness. With the woman incapacitated, Jerry took her shoes and ran back to his bed, curling up to sleep with them held tight in his arms. His violent fantasies were still very much so alive. Jerry's ability to suppress and you know, like hide these perversions

had been nothing more than a facade. By the time Jerry Brutos turned twenty two. He had trained as an electrician and appeared to be settling into a conventional lifestyle. He met Darcy Metzler, a seventeen year old girl who would become his wife. Her parents strongly opposed the couple's relationship, probably because they kind of could see Jerry for who he was, A total creep. Yeah, but their disapproval only drove Darcy closer to Jerry.

Speaker 2

Okay, as it would Yeah, yep.

Speaker 1

For the first time in his life, Jerry experienced genuine affection from a woman, and it cemented their bond together. Now, to the outside world, Jerry seemed to have transformed finally into a respectable family man. He didn't drink, he didn't smoke or swear, making it seem like he was just normal. But behind closed doors, his devyan tendencies were very much so alive and thriving. Early in their marriage, Jerry imposed strict rules on Darcy, demanding that she serve him absolutely

unconditionally as his housewife. She was to wear only high heels around the house.

Speaker 2

Oh gosh, okay, yeah, holy shit, I would rage.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Now, I did read some articles talking about how she was told she could wear nothing but high heels, and I read one saying only high heels. So I'm going to assume it's a little bit of a mix because I can't imagine she's just constantly nude stretting about the house, you know what I mean. Yeah, but I mean, hey, it is a possibility.

Speaker 2

Well, and I think she's so much younger, like not like it's not terrible, but like five years, like that's substantial when they're that age kind of thing.

Speaker 1

In Yeah, the percentage wise, the age gap is rather it is not like creepy, but it's a bit large. Yeah, I mean technically she was seventeen when they met, not eighteen. I mean, yeah, okay, yeah, but yeah, I mean by the time they got married, I'm sure she was well over seventeen eighteen nineteen, who knows, but yeah. Anyways, Over time, Darcy appeared to fall completely under Jerry's control, seemingly brainwashed

by his absolute dominance. The couple moved frequently before settling into Portland, Oregon, where Jerry secured a stable job as a radio station technician. They welcomed a daughter in nineteen sixty two and his son, Jason in nineteen sixty seven. For years, it seemed as though this family life and love of his devoted wife kept Jerry's dark urges in check. Mean, yeah, sure, some weird stuff's going on at home. It's consensual stuff. Hey, all the power to you, right, So it seems like

everything's in order. However, psychologists have since noted that the birth of his son Jason, marked a critical turning point in Jerry's life. See. During Jason's birth, Darcy barred Jerry from entering the maternity ward for whatever reason she had right, and it's believed that this act triggered a profound sense

of betrayal and disempowerment in Jerry. He viewed that moment as a challenge to his control, and it seemed to reignite the deviant compulsions that he had managed to suppress for the past few years.

Speaker 2

Just like, that's one simple little thing there, exactly. Oh gosh, okay, it's stocking that it didn't come back earlier then.

Speaker 1

Yeah, so well, I mean that's why I'm sitting here saying I don't think you can reform this individual when things like that, it flips so fast. Yeah, Like there's I talked about it briefly in part one, but Jerry Brutos is a classical, classical, classic psychology case for psych students, because there's so much to unpack here, right, So he is like literally a textbook example of many of these fucked up things that are going on.

Speaker 2

Yeah, well there's yeah, there's a lot going on there, that's for sure.

Speaker 1

Yeah. So, not long after Jason's birth, Jerry found himself walking around Portland, and then he spotted a woman wearing a pair of high heels that matched his ideal type in his head perfectly. He was fixated, and he began following her for hours, watching her every move, and he tracked her all the way back to her home. When night fell and she went to sleep, Jerry crept into her house, intending to steal her shoes and leave unnoticed. However, during his heist, the woman woke up and saw him

looming over her in her bedroom. Panicked, Jerry pounced, covering her mouth and choking her as she struggled until she fell unconscious. As she lay motionless on the bed, still alive but incapacitated, Jerry paused. In this moment, his deviant fantasies collided with reality, and he took his opportunity sexually assaulting her before he ran away.

Speaker 2

Oh, okay, with her shoes, I'm assuming, or maybe not.

Speaker 1

I'm assuming. Yes, with their shoes, I'm not too. I'm not confirmed on every time he steals a pair of shoes or article of clothing. Yeah, but it's a pattern that, yes, he steals shoes or clothing or something, so he I'm

sure he ran away with something from this incident. Yes. Now, as I mentioned earlier, Jerry lived out his fantasies behind closed doors, or at least that's why it was at home for the past few years, but ever since moving into their Portland home, he had strict rules regarding his garage, basement and the home attic. Both spaces were completely off

limits to his wife and their children. If they needed in there, or if they needed to talk to him while he was inside, they were required to press a buzzer on an intercom system and wait until Jerry would unlock heavy bolts that were securing the doors.

Speaker 2

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1

Remember when I said no one found their way inside that pit? Oh no, yeah, this is his adult version.

Speaker 2

Oh well, I don't know why I didn't go there, but okay, yeah, wow, I'm really naive this morning.

Speaker 1

So for most of their marriage, these spaces, this garage and the attic and stuff, they served as Jerry's private haven. The garage mostly is where he would indulge in his cross dressing fantasies without fear of judgment from his family. However, in nineteen sixty eight, the garage basement would take on a far darker role. On a cold January night, Linda Slosson, a young Encyclopedia saleswoman, knocked on Jerry's front door. We

talked about Linda in part one. Yeah, Now, Jerry just so happened to be home, and he just so happened to be home alone, and the sight of this defenseless young woman standing on his doorstep made his heart race. Linda gave her standard sales pitch, and Jerry pretended he was interested, and then before long he invited her inside, out of the cold, under the pretense of discussing discussing a potential purchase right now. For Linda, this was routine

at the time. Like you know, salespeople, they would come inside, they would discuss, you know, show lots of things about it, and talk about their things. Hey, you could even put them over here on this swall you know, make a cup of tea. All these sorts of things were normal for this sales job at the time. Jerry led her into the garage and Linda began setting up her samples and her paperwork, but as her back was turned, Jerry grabbed a plank of wood and swung it, cracking it

over her head, knocking her unconscious. He then dragged her downstairs into his locked garage basement area, where he strangled her to death before she could wake up.

Speaker 2

Holy shit, that escalated real fast. Yep, Oh my gosh. And this is the thought of like that job, that you're just like it's normal to go into people's houses and shit, that is that is freaking terrifying.

Speaker 1

Says the photographer who does home maternity and newborn shoots.

Speaker 2

Well, yeah, but it's like a fam. Shit, do you not do that to me? Please right now? Sorry, I don't know, I just oh, ben, okay, just carry on then here all right.

Speaker 1

What followed was a horrifying glimpse into Jerry's twisted mind alone with the Linda. With Linda's lifeless body, Jerry spent the night dressing her in his collection of high heels and lingerie.

Speaker 2

Then she's dead. Correct, Oh disturbing, okay.

Speaker 1

He then dressed himself in Linda's own clothes, revealing more of his sick fantasies. He posed her body in provocative positions, taking photographs to preserve the moment. This lasted for hours. Jerry, however, wasn't satisfied with just photos and a few items of clothing as souvenirs. Wanting something more, a little more permanent, he mutilated Linda's body by severing her left foot to use as a model for his growing woman's shoes collection.

Oh boy, yeah, he's He's keeping her foot as a souvenir. So this in itself wasn't about practicality by the sounds of it. To me, It's more about control and indulging in these tendencies. So like this, what's going to rot and look horrible very fast? Right, So it's more so about yeah, like controlling the situation from what I see. So, after satisfying his twisted urges, Jerry set about disposing of

Linda's body. He loaded her mutilator remains into his car and drove to a remote bridge and staged a flat tire on the side of the road. Then, once he was sure the coast was clear, Jerry retrieved Linda's body from the trunk and heaved it over the railing into the frigid water below. Jerry had successfully gotten away with his first murder, and it would take another ten months

before the opportunity to kill presented itself once again. He was driving along Interstate five somewhere between Salem and Albany when Jerry noticed a young woman whose car was broken down in a rest stop. Her car was parked and she was sitting with a group of men who had stopped to help. The young woman was Jan Whitney, as mentioned in Part one. Jerry pulled over, presenting himself as

a kind stranger eager to assist. He offered Jan a ride back to his house to use the phone, adding that he could even grab some tools while there and they can come back and try and fix the car together. He knew how, and hey, if he can't fix it, then you know whoever we phone can come pick pick up your car, pick up you or whatever.

Speaker 2

Right, He's like, we got this, yeah, like just making himself seem like the nicest of people.

Speaker 1

Right, like the hero of the situation, basically right, Grateful for his generosity Jane accepted his offer, not realizing that she had unfortunately just sealed her fate. The two drove back to Jerry's house, and when they arrived, Jerry walked up to the front door and pretended that he didn't have his keys. He's the door's locked. I forgot my keep my house keys. My wife she's not gonna be home to it for a little while. She'll she'll be home,

you know, later on, like a couple hours. Maybe just wait in the car until she returns, and then she can let us in the house and we can get all this taken care of. So Jan's like, okay, yeah, sure, let's wait in the car. So she climbed back into the passenger seat of the car while Jerry slid into the back seat behind her. Red flag o red flash.

Speaker 2

Yeah, you'd be like, what the fuck are you doing, but it would probably be so quick before you like fully comprehended what the hell was going on.

Speaker 1

Well, yeah, for sure, And I mean Jerry did put her at ease, because I mean for a while they did. They just chatted, they talked, they played some like some word games and stuff, you know, and just enjoyed each other's company for a little bit, and then before long, without warning, Jerry leaned forward and wrapped a leather strap around Jan's neck, pulling it tight. He yanked her backward against the headdress and used his knee to brace himself

against the seat to give him leverage to pull. Jan struggled, but Jerry pulled relentlessly until she went limp and lifeless sitting in the car.

Speaker 2

Uh huh. I mean he could have, I guess, just been like, oh, I'm gonna just like lay in the back seat like or whatever, right, and made it seem like it was slightly not super weird.

Speaker 1

Yeah, for sure, for sure, And I think that's probably what he kind of did.

Speaker 2

But oh wow, Okay.

Speaker 1

Now with Jan's bob in his control, Jerry moved her into his garage. He used a pulley system rigged up to the ceiling, and he hoisted her up until her toes barely touched the floor. For Jerry, this grotesque setup was part of a ritual that he had now carefully planned. He spent the entire evening with Jan's body, dressing her in various outfits, indulging his fantasies, just as he had done with his first victim. However, he took things a little bit further this time, and he even engaged in

necrophi laic acts. I'll leave it at that.

Speaker 2

He just like the and they're just like hoisted up. Yeah, like, oh my goodness, this is so disturbing.

Speaker 1

Yeah, he's he's basically tying ropes around them and using pulleys to yeah, like string them up. And then from there he's got basically human deceased mannekins that he just does what he wants with.

Speaker 2

Oh god, Okay, Yeah.

Speaker 1

Now, after Jerry was finished with Jan, he tied her lifeless body to a railroad iron using copper wire, loaded her into his car, and drove to a nearby river. There, just like before, he discarded her body, right where Linda's sloughson had been discarded as well. By this point, Linda's severed foot was very extensively decayed, so Jerry decided to actually dispose of it as well, throwing it into the

water along Jan's remains. For the rest of nineteen sixty eight, Jerry refrained from killing again, likely allowing the heat to die down, but his compulsions hadn't gone away. By the following spring, they resurfaced, and on the morning of March twenty seventh, nineteen sixty nine, Jerry was cruising through downtown Salem, hunting for his next victim, and that's when he noticed a tall, glamorous woman walking down the street in a stunning pair of high heeled shoes, the perfect embodiment of

his fantasies. He parked his car real quick and in a panic to go follower in a nearby parking lot. However, he lost sight of her before he could act. Frustrated, Jerry's attention quickly shifted when another woman walked towards her car near the rooftop stairwell of the department store parking lot. This woman didn't quite match his image of the ideal victim like the last woman did, but it didn't matter. She was an opportunity and Jerry wasn't about to pass

it up. The young woman was nineteen year old Karen Sprinker, a college student who was about to become Jerry's third victim and the first to enter his torture dungeon alive.

Speaker 2

Oh gosh, that just gave me the freaking shivers, Just like talk about being in the wrong place at the wrong time too exactly.

Speaker 1

And notice how something new is happening with every victim. It's getting worse and worse, progressing with every single one. Yeah now. Jerry waited until Karen was close. He then approached from behind with a toy gun that we talked about part one. He kept this in his glove box of his vehicle. Though the gun was fake, Karen didn't know that, and he pressed it against her and ordered for her to stay quiet and follow him, threatening to

kill her if she resisted. Terrified, Karen complied, she climbed into the passenger seat of Jerry's car. She likely believed that she was If she's going to cooperate here, she might make it out of this situation a lot. Jerry then drove Karen back to his house and brought her into the garage and basement. There, she continued to comply with his demands, clinging to that hope that her obedience

might save her life. He directed her through stage photo shoots, forcing her to pose while he snapped pictures of her, demeaning her, posing her, putting her in different clothes. She just followed his instructions, doing what she could to appease him.

After forcing her to comply with this photo shoot, He then raped her before he strung a noose around her neck, running the cord through the pulley system on the roof, and with three hard tugs, he hoisted Karen into the air, leaving her there to hang and die of exphyxiation.

Speaker 2

Seriously, just like watching her die like that, most likely taking photos of it too. Holy shit, this is just too much. This guy is such a freaking nasty piece of shit.

Speaker 1

How many warnings did I give you for this case? Like countless at this point I told you, I.

Speaker 2

Know, but my mind is still just like blown by these like that. Just someone is like this fucked up, I guess.

Speaker 1

Oh, understandably because he is. And yeah, so he strung her up and she died there, and her body hung in the garage for hours more while Jerry continued his routine, even at one point stepping out to have dinner with his wife and kids, Oh nothing had even happened, and then later returning that night once his family was asleep, he sexually violated Karen's remains and photographed her in different poses,

prolonging his sick fantasy. When he was done, he tied her body to a scrap car engine and dispose of it in the river much likely likely had done before. Each murder made Jerry Boulder feeling his twisted sense of control and invulnerability feeding Sorry.

Speaker 2

These poor women like they're just oh my gosh, I don't know, and it's just like the disrespect to them, and it's just it's just disgusting.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it really is. And now you understand why his case is so famous for it and why psychology students dive into this case. This is like a big one that they go through in courses and stuff.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I mean, yeah, it makes sense. It's like, especially if you're studying this shit fascinating but also just like so disturbing and terrifying. Yeah, liked it that too.

Speaker 1

To think that a human mind can operate like this is fucking wild.

Speaker 2

Yeah. And in between, like he has this literally dead body hanging in his garage and his family isn't allowed to go into it, and then he's just going and like having dinner with them.

Speaker 1

Yeap, and then back to the body.

Speaker 2

That is some fucked up shit right there.

Speaker 1

Right, It's almost like there is two Jerry's. I don't know if he like exactly has like two personas or personalities, but it's very much so it's almost like there are two Jerry's at this point, you know. One I think is more of a mask for him, not like it's a real person. I think it's a mass that he puts on for other people, like the fake Jerry and then the real Jerry.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

So, now, by the spring of nineteen sixty nine, Jerry's confidence had grown exponentially. No longer relying on chance to encounter his victims, he now actively sought out his new victims. He began frequenting campuses of Oregon State University and Portland State Universe, watching and waiting for the woman who fit his ideal profile. He would do so dressed in women's underwear stolen from previous victims, along with other items from his collection. He would just sit in his car, stalk

the grounds for hours and wait. His first target was that spring, and was a woman by the name of Sharon Wood, whose harrowing escape we already talked about in Part one. He attacked her, tried to abduct her.

Speaker 2

Yes she got away, yep, good good.

Speaker 1

So after the failed abduction of Sharon, Jerry tried again the very next day with a fifteen year old girl, attempting to put her into his car. This too was a botched attempt.

Speaker 2

It was this one I think was they got the train tracks or some shit, right, Okay Yeah.

Speaker 1

Frustrated but undeterred, Jerry kept hunting. The next day, on April twenty third, he spotted twenty two year old Linda Saley shopping for a birthday present for her boyfriend. He followed her to a shopping complex, watching as she moved from store to store. When she finally returned to her car, Jerry was there waiting. This time, he used a different tactic, as last two times his tactics weren't working, so he switched it up instead. This time, instead of pulling a

fake gun, he pulled a badge. He approached Linda with a counterfeit security badge, posing as a plane closed police officer, and he accused Linda of shoplifting, claiming she needed to come with him to the station to clear up this whole thing. I mean, Linda's confused and she's cooperative, but she's insisting she has receipts for the purchases and everything, and she's just like this is there, but must be some mistake. But Jerry's like, well, we'll figure it out.

At the station, like, if you got your receipts, you'll be fine, it won't take too long.

Speaker 2

Then, well, yeah, and I feel like almost anyone would be like, yeah, let's get this cleared up exactly.

Speaker 1

So Jerry reassured her it was likely just a mistake, but she needed to straighten these things out, and she was, of course, unaware of his true intentions, and she got into Jerry's car.

Speaker 2

Oh boy.

Speaker 1

Now, as they drove, Linda did quickly put some stuff together, realizing that something just wasn't right. She began to reach for the door, but Jerry reached across her and locked the door and drew the fake pistol on her, warning her to stay quiet. Shortly thereafter, they then arrived at Jerry's home. However, a problem arose when he pulled into

the driveway. Jerry's wife, Darcy, was home. Her car was parked in the driveway, and as they pulled up, she came out onto the porch calling out that dinner was ready.

Speaker 2

Oh gosh, okay.

Speaker 1

Jerry panicked, but maintained his composure, and he forced Linda to duck down in her seat just enough to be in time that Darcy didn't see her He called back Darcy, telling her he'd be inside shortly, and then after she went back into the house, Jerry tied Linda up in the back seat to ensure she couldn't scaree. Then he went inside and ate dinner with his family, all while dreading that Linda might somehow free herself and run for help.

Speaker 2

M M, I'm sure he was distracted as shit. Now.

Speaker 1

When Jerry returned to the car later, Linda was still there, tied up. Fortunately for him, Darcy, his wife, had left for the evening to spend some time with some friends, and left only the babysitter at the house watching the children. With the coast clear, Jerry brought Linda into the garage, the nightmare space, I guess, uh huh, where he would carry out his horrifying rituals like before.

Speaker 2

Okay, here I was, I don't know, I can't remember if you've already like divulged what happened here. But I was like, oh, maybe she'll get away.

Speaker 1

H No, Linda Sale, just like Karen, would not leave Jerry's torture dungeon alive. Linda, now in the garage, knew she was in a dire situation. She knew that this was basically a fight or flight, like a life or death situation, and she began to fight back with everything she had despite being a at a physical advantage. Though she clawed at Jerry, she bit at Jerry, and Jerry was now put on the defensive. She was trying desperately

to escape, but he was trying desperately defend her off. Jerry, now struggling to maintain control, wrestled and managed to wrap a leather strap around her neck, and after an intense struggle, his size and strength gave him the advantage again and he managed to strangle Linda to death.

Speaker 2

Okay, well, she put up a good fight. I guess ay she did.

Speaker 1

I guess the only solace in that would be that she didn't have to endure the things inside the dungeon, the posing, the abuse, the.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, probably like the rape and everything that he does.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Now, with Linda's lifeless body, Jerry embarked on his now predictable at this point ritual of sexual abuse and photography, but this time his actions took an even more bizarre In macob turn, he played the role of mad scientists. This time he was curious. He clamped electrical cables to Linda's body and hooked them up to a outlet in his home. He plugged it in and attempted to make

her corpse spasm, which apparently was unsuccessful. But yeah, this grotesque experiment added yet another layer to this horrifying, escalating situation.

Speaker 2

Meanwhile, his kids are literally next door with a babysitter. Yep, oh gosh, that is just so messed.

Speaker 1

Oh yeah, Okay, Now, Linda's murder would ultimately prove to be Jerry's last. As we discussed in part one, investigators had already started connecting the dots. The discovery of the bodies in the Woolm River with similar ligature marks led to identifying patterns on targeted victims, specific victims with a

profile pattern. Now, actually I did in part one call it the Long Tom River, which is incorrect, though they are very close in proximity and I think one flows into the other or something, But it's actually the Willamette River where the bodies were being dumped they found. Just clarifying, but yeah, the police, realizing the patterns, began to campus college students, where college campuses, where women were you know, currently being and it's his profile. It's people you know

who he's after, So he's sorry. The detectives and investigators they're they're going around, they're asking questions, they're they're interviewing and trying to get a lead, and detectives, you know, struck gold when a young woman came forward reporting that Jerry Brudos had been contacting women and herself included cold

calling them in hopes of arranging dates. Using this information, the police worked with the women to set up a or sorry with the woman to set up a sting operation, and they arranged a quote date with Jerry, which allowed them to connect with him and bring him in for questioning.

Once detectives began focusing on him, more evidence surfaced. His mother's car, of course, was identified as being a car that was used in abduction attempts, and he also matched the description provided by a survivor, most importantly fifteen year old Gloria Jean, who did positively identify Jerry as the man who tried to abduct her weeks earlier. With this mounting evidence, police raided Jerry's home and arrested him. When detectives forced open the door to Jerry's garage, they found

a treasure trove of incriminating evidence. The incriminating cables and wires that they spotted earlier during their initial visited were collected for analysis, and it didn't take long to confirm that the knots tied in the cables and the cables themselves matched everything the legature marks found on the necks of the victims. You name it. Additionally, the ends of the roles of wire showed cuts made with tools found in Jerry's possession. Inside the garage, police discovered the police

system that was on this roof. Yeah, the same device that was used to string up as victims. Yeah. There were lockers filled with photography equipment, women's clothes, shoes, piles, and piles of glamour's shoes neatly arranged in a disturbing collection. They also found a list of phone numbers and addresses for sorority houses at University State Sorry Oregon State University, suggesting that Jerry had been systematically planning his next targets

at these locations. The attic held even more chilling discoveries. Police found boxes of photographic negatives and prints featuring women in both clothes and nude poses, many of them sexually, suggesting suggestive I guess. Among the photos were several of Jerry himself as well, dressed in women's lingerie, high heel and striking exaggerated poses. Now, I think it goes without saying that many of these photographs were not necessarily of live.

Speaker 2

Exactly women I was gonna ask, Yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah, many of them were of the deceased victims that were found or people like yeah, and you can see like apparently it's like, yeah, it's obvious when you look at these photos these women are dead.

Speaker 2

I just imagine going in there, hey to like with a warrant or whatever and investigating and just like finding all this shit.

Speaker 1

And yeah, that's what you uncover. Like oh wow.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I think. I don't know. I just don't think anyone could have been like quite prepared for exactly that.

Speaker 1

Oh. Even just thinking of that situation, like a fucking shiver went up my spine. Oh man, I can't even imagine stepping into his I think garage space.

Speaker 2

It would be mind blowing.

Speaker 1

Oh. I don't know if that's something I could ever recover from. And that's just like the most minimal thing of this case, just you know, walking into his space and observing. Okay, thanks for that.

Speaker 2

Hey, you do that kind of shit to me all the time.

Speaker 1

So touche, touche. You're right, I deserve that now. The overwhelming evidence left no room for doubt about Jerry's guilt. From the knots and the cables, the Pulley system, the photographs, it all painted the horrific picture of the man who terrorized Oregon for years. The raid in his home marked the end of Jerry Brutos killing spree and led to his arrest, trial, and hopefully eventual conviction.

Speaker 2

Okay, what the hell? What the face you just gave me made it seem like that's not going to happen.

Speaker 1

Well, I'm not going to tell you just yet.

Speaker 2

As it happened, I will like there is something wrong with this well, there already is something wrong in this world. But okay, carry on.

Speaker 1

Well, like I said, we're in a story here, right. It's called you know, like building, building up to the climax, you know.

Speaker 2

Yeah, but jeez, there is no way, there's no way that this person can't get convicted. There's no way.

Speaker 1

I mean, the kind of is which we'll touch on. Don't worry, Well we'll get there. So Jerry's crime, of course, crimes a of course shock the nation, and yeah, people just didn't know how to process it. Forensic investigators and behavioral psychologists have studied this case for years now. During the investigation into his crimes, police discovered an odd maccabb item. Though still, there was one more piece of evidence that they couldn't quite wrap their heads around and initially baffled them.

There were these warped domes of hardened resin. It appeared to be homemade, and it wasn't clear what the purpose of these objects were until Jerry confessed. He told investigators that these were resin molds of victim's breasts.

Speaker 2

Okay, yeah, that's exactly where my head was, Oh, really take their boobs.

Speaker 1

Yeah, But the thing is he had he'd made molds and these resin domes after cutting the breasts off the body.

Speaker 2

What the shit?

Speaker 1

Okay, Yes, Jerriet hoped to create a metal paper weight in the shape of one of his victim's breasts, but he never perfected the composition to get it quite right.

Speaker 2

Okay, here I was like, okay, like I I saw that coming ish, but then I didn't.

Speaker 1

But then I didn't.

Speaker 2

Oh wow, okay a metal weight.

Speaker 1

A metal paper weight? Yeah, So he wanted to basically take a mold and like have a resin cast so then he can like keep it for later to make another mold and make a metal cast. If that makes sense. Yeah, I'm assuming because I do a little bit of resin casting myself, and I'm assuming that I make dice for dungeons and dragons a little different, but yeah, so I'm assuming that's his pro Yeah, and a little fucked up. So as of now, Jerry was sitting in jail on

kidnapping charges. Remember that's what he was arrested on. Initially, was the kidnapping charges because he was positively id'd by someone he tried to abduct, right, and then there's some evidence linking him to that kidnapping, thus getting the warrants they opened the house. Now they find all this evidence for murder. So currently he's only being held on kidnapping charges, right, So, the case against him for the murders of form missy

women continued to grow. However, because he hadn't kept photographs or souvenirs. Smith's first victim, Linda Slawson, and her body was never recovered. Unfortunately, charges for her murder were excluded. They could only pin three murders on him, and these three murders went to trial. The evidence against Jerry in those three cases were absolutely overwhelming, and as you're saying, you're gonna be pissed if he's not convicted. But proving

his guilt wasn't the challenge for his conviction. It was combating the plea of not guilty by reason of insanity.

Speaker 2

Okay, yeah, I was wondering, but still even that you can, I feel like still like go to like a hospital for your life and stuff.

Speaker 1

For sure, But that's still going to heavily wigh on what you're convicted of. Is he convicted of murder?

Speaker 2

Right?

Speaker 1

Is he convicted of manslaughter? You know those sort of things, right, there's a big difference. So in early June, during interrogations with detectives with Detective Jim Stovell, Jerry had been shockingly forthcoming, actually recounting all three s all the grizzly details of his six months sixteen months free. However, just three days before his trial date, Jerry abandoned his insanity defense and pled guilty to all three of the murders that he

was being charged with. So, as a result, he was convicted and he was sentenced to three consecutive life terms.

Speaker 2

Okay, good good.

Speaker 1

Now, one month later, based on information Jerry provided, the body of Jen Jen Whitney was finally recovered from Wilmette River, still tied to a railroad spike, and tragically, Linda Slawson's remains were never found.

Speaker 2

So he did actually like divulge of some information then of like where to find them? Yes he did, Oh, okay, yeah, which is it so interesting? Actually when you think about that.

Speaker 1

Well, when you look back on his life, anytime he was caught, he spilled.

Speaker 2

Yeah, that's true. That's true.

Speaker 1

So he's he was caught. He did the same thing he always does, and he.

Speaker 2

Spills, right, But I mean these are like what he's caught for. It's like, oh boy.

Speaker 1

Yeah, little different than stealing a pair of shoes when you're a kid.

Speaker 2

Uh huh.

Speaker 1

So now, Jerry's conviction seemed to close the case. However, there was one question that puzzled investigators. What role had his wife, Darcy played in all this? Could she really have been that oblivious to the fact that her husband was kidnapping and murdering women in their very home right under her nose.

Speaker 2

I feel like I wasn't I was thinking so, yes, because she was with him from like a really young age, Yeah, and sort of like manipulated her. And he had these private areas and stuff.

Speaker 1

So aren't you gonna have some red flags with these private areas? Are you know? I hear screams? What about maybe I don't know, seeing some blood once in a while, what about an odd smell? Is there something that would not have set her off that she just even turned a blind eye to.

Speaker 2

I don't know. I feel like she's innocent, but maybe I'm totally out to launch here.

Speaker 1

Okay. Well, the following August, after his conviction, a neighbor came forward with a disturbing claim. She art seeing Jerry and Darcy carrying what appeared to be a heavy rug from the house to the car on the same night that Karen Sprinker was killed.

Speaker 2

What the shit? Seriously?

Speaker 1

Yeah? Now, it wasn't until the trial's timeline was made public that the neighbor connected the dots on the incident to Karen's murder. Now, based on this testimony, Darcy was arrested and charged with aiding and a betting. However, the court found her not guilty later that year, as there was no concrete evidence to prove that she knew what she was carrying if that event actually occurred.

Speaker 2

Okay, that's what I was gonna say. Maybe she didn't know what the hell was in there.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Darcy's defense pointed out that Jerry had pleaded with her to destroy his incriminating stash of women's clothing and photographs after his arrest, a request that she denied.

Speaker 2

Oh okay, okay, good.

Speaker 1

Yeah, so prior to the police actually raiding the house, because they just arrested them initially, right, so it would have probably been a couple of days before they actually get a warrant to get in and raid that fucking house. He plead with her burn this shit.

Speaker 2

And she didn't.

Speaker 1

She's like, no, why would I do that?

Speaker 2

Okay? Good? I mean yeah, especially too because they have kids, right that they need their mom if she's like a decent human, I guess right.

Speaker 1

So, following the trial, Darcy moved to another state, filed for divorce, changed her name, and she secured a court order preventing Jerry from ever having contact with their children if he were ever to.

Speaker 2

Be released, which should never happen.

Speaker 1

Correct now. Jerry Brutos remained incarcerated at the Oregon State Penitentiary for the rest of his life. His time in prison was far from easy. Record show he was frequently beaten and sexually assaulted by other inmates who despised him for his heinous crimes and because hey, he was be fucking dude. And Jerry Brutos died on March twenty eighth, two thousand and six, at the age of sixty seven from terminal liver cancer, marking the end of one of Oregon's most notorious criminal cases ever.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Wow, there's just like so much to unpack about this.

Speaker 1

Yeah, and that is the case of Jerry Brutos.

Speaker 2

Huh, holy shit, the shoe fetish layer. Imagine that being your debt your father, Hey, no, thank you, Like I just couldn't. I can't believe that he has like children, I know. I just feel like that's so sad for them.

Speaker 1

It's super morbid and super weird. And I can't imagine yeah, growing up thinking that's that's what I'm related to.

Speaker 2

Like, you'd almost hope they wouldn't know, but they probably do. Yeah, damn, damn. Yeah, that is that is one of the most like intra sting true crime cases out there.

Speaker 1

I feel like there is so much to this and it is so deep in that psychological aspect. Holy fuck, you can dig, dig, like I bet you. Someone could spend their entire career fully dissecting this and barely even touch the tip of the iceberg. Oh yeah, because there is so much to unpacked, and there's books, there's interviews, there's documentaries, you name it, all about about him and going into the psychiatri or sorry, psychiatric the psychology of him and who he was and yeah, it's it's wild.

Speaker 2

And here I was just like, this is a total joke. But I was like, oh, I wish you would have foot fetters in a way, because then I'd get feet.

Speaker 1

Massages, feet massages, foot massages.

Speaker 2

I do not get foot massages at all.

Speaker 1

Okay, I don't like feet or gross.

Speaker 2

They are kind of gross actually.

Speaker 1

Especially like I don't know, maybe this is something that Hey instilled in me from a young age, because hey, I had inger on tonails as a kid, and I actually have like a couple toenails permanently removed because they kept coming back over and over. So now I'm like, oh, I got ugly feet because I'm missing a couple toenails. So now maybe it's just as an adult, I'm like ew feed er grows because I didn't like my own feet as a kid.

Speaker 2

Yeah, now your wife is missing out on getting amazing massages.

Speaker 1

Dang well that sucks for you.

Speaker 2

That does suck for me anyway. Wow, that is that would be like a doozy of a case to research for sure, Holy shit, but also kind of interesting.

Speaker 1

It was interesting and yeah, like you say, it's a doozy and that's why I was up till two am last night finishing off part two.

Speaker 2

Okay, it makes sense, Yeah does it? Well, I was sleeping.

Speaker 1

Hopefully that sleep helped get you through the story today, and hopefully you guys enjoyed this one, and hopefully you had your your comfort drink and maybe you dogged by your side who can help get you through it and distract you a little bit too.

Speaker 2

Yeah wow.

Speaker 1

So to wrap it all up, we have a link in the description for pretty much every social media we got, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, Hey, it's all there, Patreon if you want to sign up get behind the scenes and exclusive content. If you're still listening, yeah, you're supporting us big time already, and we appreciate that too.

Speaker 2

We sure do.

Speaker 1

We're an indie podcast, right, m hm, so yeah, no, no.

Speaker 2

Puppy master points made it seem like you wanted to cheers. I don't know why.

Speaker 1

Well I was kind of pointing at you. I guess my cup is what I was doing. But hey, it cheers works too.

Speaker 2

We're an indie podcast. Yes, we are, just us. Oh shit, I did it.

Speaker 1

You did it.

Speaker 2

You said just the two of us, just the two.

Speaker 1

Not everyone will get that, but I'm pretty sure almost everyone will get that. All this is just the singing.

Speaker 2

Part that I, oh, yeah, but you're just I screwed up my own advice.

Speaker 1

Yeah, Nicole doesn't like, well, it's not just us. It sounds bad, well.

Speaker 2

Because I feel like lots of times people are like, I'm I'm just like a stay at home mom, or I'm just this, or I'm like and then they're degrading themselves, you know, so I yeah, but then I just did it.

Speaker 1

So yeah. But I think just has many meanings, especially in the context with when you use it.

Speaker 2

But okay, lots of times when people use it like that, or they'll say something about their their job or something, but it's like it makes it seem like it's less then.

Speaker 1

You know anyway, I also don't think it makes it seem less, and I think it makes it seem simple. I guess simple isn't bad. I guess I'm just to stay at home mom. That's self explanatory to everybody. That's a simple description. Everyone knows how to stay at home mom does right, you're raising fucking children. Mm hmm, so boom, I'm just to stay at home mom. Simple explanation just means simple in my mind. We're just in any podcast, meaning we don't have a giant corporation pulling the strings.

It's the two of us doing it all. It gives you a simple explanation, and.

Speaker 2

Stay tuned in three months when we have this conversation again.

Speaker 1

Probably so until then, stay wicked.

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