Jeannette DePalma - Death on Devils Teeth

Investigation into the death of sixteen year old Jeannette di Palma is focusing on elements of black witchcraft and Satan worship. A review of death scene photos, according to reports, is leading authorities to believe the girl's death may have been in the nature of a sacrifice. Pieces of wood, at first thought to be at the scene by chance, are now seen as symbols. One researcher said two pieces of wood were crossed on the ground over her head. More

My name's Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and Grim.

A true crime podcast. Warning the following podcasts and material intended more mature audience listeners. It's the final Countdom.

You're dude.

Did you like how I added the can opening into it?

It was it was good.

Instead of like a little guitar solo, it was like a beer solo.

Yeah, this is Ben's final week, and apparently we will be fist pumping every day.

Fist bumping bumping. I mean, I'll fist pump, trust me, and you're just like, yes, and you fist pump.

You know. Okay, all of the above every day until get done.

So, final day, final week at work, until I'm officially full time creating media and stuff. AKA putting a lot more effort into the podcast.

How freaking exciting, and aka also us spending a ridiculous amount of time together.

Oh you're gonna love it, don't lie, you want it to happen.

I cannot even eat oreos in peace in this house.

Okay. You were eating an oreo and I asked you a question and you were just like what, It's not my fault.

You asked me, like about a physical activity to mountain biking or something, And here I'm just trying to enjoy this oreo, not thinking about you know, And apparently got was hanging out and I'm just.

Ha, Yeah, you were just munching away. It was glorious.

That's married life right there.

Pretty much. But yeah, living in a tiny home together pretty much twenty four to seven now, no separation, do jobs.

Yeah, I'm nervous.

And and I'm pretty sure we're not alone in the tiny home.

No, holy shit, this is a new development in it it is.

We recently had a discussion where we both realized we've been seeing the same thing happening in front of our front door, well.

In front of our gate more so, which is like right by our I guess the fence that leads to the gate that leads to the front door.

Yeah, so we've been out of the corner of our eye. We both swear we see people or someone.

Walking by to the gate.

Yeah, and it's the same spot right to the gate, but they never make it to the gate. We have like a wine barrel there and it's like right by the wine barrel. And we just had this revelation that we both are actually seeing this. We're not just individually crazy, we're crazy together.

Yeah, because I was thinking that, like I was. I hadn't even said anything to you. I just was like, so many times I'm working because I work a lot at this where it's kind of in view, I see it. It's like out of the corner of my arm, Like, oh, that's so weird like that, I'm just always seeing something. And I never brought it up to you. And then we just on the weekend it came up because we both saw it, yep. And then we're like, shit, you've been actually seeing that more than once.

Yep. So I personally I'm a very big skeptic when it comes to stuff. I love it, don't get me wrong. I want to fucking dive in. I want to go ghost hunting out on the front door now. But I'm a skeptic, so I'm always trying to find the reason, plausible reasons. First.

Well, yeah, because so you suggest that it's a bird flying by.

Yeah, because it's like a section where it makes sense for birds to like fly by.

This time actual really, because I've never actually seen a bird fly through there.

But it makes sense though if you look at it, because there's building where we're living in it, and then there's like another shed on the other side, so there's like a little driveway in between, and it makes sense for the birds to fly down the driveway to the tree line which goes past our gate. Right.

Yes, but the figure that we're seeing is much bigger than a bird.

But we always see it out of the corner of our eye. So my theory is it's our imagination putting more to it.

I don't know. I think it's some sort of spirit of sorts potentially, and it could. I don't think it's of harm or anything or doing any harm. It could literally just be like a deceased love one or something like who knows see it? No, you're looking out there right now. I'm like, it's dark. Don't just don't see it in the dark.

Because we're talking about it. I think we should put a like a trail cam out there.

Oh that's what I think, or set up your video camera that has.

The the night vision. Yeah, could the infrared.

But yeah, I don't think this, whatever it is, is meaning any harm or anything. It could even be like just keeping an eye on us.

Yet I'm not sold it's a spirit or an entity like that. I think not a bird. I think it's something that we're misinterpreting. I think it's a bird or something like that. That's what I think.

That's a big ass bird.

Could be could be a fucking big ass bird. I don't know. But yeah, this is gonna be something that I'm sure we're gonna be talking about for for a little while to come, as we're gonna well try and figure this out.

It's a bit while, that's for sure.

Yeah. Anyways, moving on from the potential tiny home haunting, we got some patrons to think, and we got a whole whack load.

This week, We've got a big list, this.

Big a big quack load, emphasis on the hua wack quackload. Okay, so starting with we got Chelsea Day, we have Paige Belvins, we have Aragon PG Cricket, Summer, Angela Modeset, Ryan Belvins. I'm wondering if Paige and and Ryan are related in any any way of shape or form there.

Because he got the same last name potentially.

And then Sarah Lindsay Maria Sherry Kawamoto. I really hope I said that last name right, Kawamoto.

Oh, that sounds good.

I think sounds good like I pronounced it good. Yeah, I think it just sounds like a good last name personally. And then Julie Husk. It's either Husk or Husky. It's felt like your typical Husky, but like just an e at the end instead. Okay, so I'm gonna go with Husk. That's my guests. But yeah, so we have all those people join up for Patreon this past week.

That's awesome.

Starting next week, trust me, Patreon is going to start being lit. There's gonna be a lot of stuff coming on with us. It's gonna be lit. It's gonna be fire.

Yeah, well that will probably be one of the main social media channels that you'll be focusing on. So is that social media?

Patreon is a form of social media. Yeah, suppose it's a subscription based social media.

We're only in the intro here, right, Wow, I feel like that's gonna be me because I'm I'm drinking my Sleepy Time tea and I already feel like it's hitting.

Well, I'm sleeping. I'm drinking my Sleepy Time tea too. It's the beer.

Does that actually make you sleepy? I'm not a beer person, so I have no idea.

It definitely can. Yeah, it relaxes me. Right, you have a drink, you just relax.

It's kind of like a glass of wine. It's because I drink wine, so definitely.

Anyways, this has been a long intro. Should we get into the case, let's get going, okay. So, as I kind of eluded already in the uh the prelude intro piece, this is one that's kind of to some of the occult if you will, okay, you ready to dive in?

I'm ready, okay.

So this is a story of Jeannette Depoma. So Jeannette was born in August third, nineteen fifty six. She lived a relatively good life in an upper middle class family in her Springfield township, Union County, New Jersey. Her parents and her siblings were all developed Christians. Along with her, the whole family had a very strong religious moral type standing. Right.

Nice.

Now, although you had this skyline view off in the distance, their home was far enough away that they kind of had that like slower lifestyle and the quiet suburb while you had that city scape off of the distance.

That's the way to do it, one hundred percent.

You get that like cool view, the like you can go to the city when you want enjoy the bustling life, but then you just quiet down in your home life.

But then you get to chill at home.

Yeah, right, like that. It's like the perfect mix exactly. Although I'm sure you'd still get like the smoggy smell from cities.

Yeah, and it would still be busy, but less busy.

Oh less busy is the key there for sure. So yeah, it was just a nice place. It was honestly the perfect place for a perfect family, if I do say so.

However, nothing's perfect.

The word perfect is a very subjective word, and Jeannette may not have fit that classification of a perfect person. And by all rights, she wasn't a Hellian child or anything, do get me wrong there either. She was just like a normal sixteen year old girl who was trying to find her way through life. And she's exploring the world around her, you know, mischief. As young adults tend to get themselves into, you know.

You kind of have to.

It's kind of how you learn who you are exactly. I know myself at sixteen, I was beginning to go out with friends, attends and parties. It's like harmless fun at that and there's generally no ill will involved in whatever your intentions or actions are, generally, and I mean that was the same with Jeanette. She was just kind of testing the proverbial waters of the world. Okay, So this all brings us to Monday afternoon on August seventh, nineteen seventy two. Jeanette was on her way out to

That's awesome.

Yeah, keeping those communication lines up, Yeah, I think it's very important.

Well yeah, and I mean because of that, because she had those communication lines open, her mom was probably fine with her going.

Yeah, exactly. And I know that was a big part of me growing up. Like I just said, I was partying a bit at sixteen. Stuff. I had those communication lines open with my parents. They told me, Hey, you know what, if you're out and it's like one am or something and you need a ride home, no questions, asks asked, we will pick you up.

Yeah, call instead of trying to figure out a way home that might not be safe.

Exactly. So that's the same sort of situation she's got that good relationship, communication lines are open, She's gonna go have some fun.

And there there you go.

So with that all established, she said goodbye and she headed out the front door. Jeanette never made it to the party.

Oh jeez.

Her mom was at home expecting her daughter to walk in at any moment that evening, but it never happened. The minutes ticked by, and she watched the front door. The minutes turned into an hour, and then two and then three, and then it rolled over into the next morning. Of course, her mom during that time was growing more

That makes my heart just sink, like right there. I mean, parents are just have enough stress, right and then to have to deal with that, Like I just think that's probably just unfathomable. But like that's a reason to just not have kids.

I can't. I don't think I can comprehend the idea on how uh stressful that would be in that situation to just be wondering and waiting.

Yeah, I think it'd be horrid, like horrible.

Yeah, Yeah, I can't fathom. I really can't.

Yeah, let's just not I guess. Holy man.

Yeah. So, unfortunately, the weight wouldn't end soon. The family prayed for her safety and her safe return day after day, but no one had seen from her, and no one had heard from her. It would be forty three days later, wow, on September nineteenth, nineteen seventy two, that Jeanette's story would finally begin to unravel.

Shit, that's a long time.

I mean, in the grand scheme of things, there's a lot of people who were out there missing.

For you, way longer. Yeah, but decades. I'm still just thinking, like this, mom, like that, forty three days of just agony, and then it's probably gonna just get worse here.

Yeah, forty three days of a parent waiting.

It's a true crime podcast. What's next? What's going to happen here?

Well, this would unravel when the police received a frantic call from a woman. When they arrived at the scene, and she told them the frightening story. See, this woman had her dog out and they were running around in the wooded area near where she lived, and much like dogs, do you know, it's kind of gallivanting around. So a short time later, the dog would return, wagging its tail and playing with a big stick or so it may

Okay, so you kind of could see art. I was like, in the woods right there, because our dogs have done this, right, Yeah, but lots of times they're bringing back like an elk bone or like a moose bone or something from the woods.

Yeah. Well, we have wolves and bears, hunters and coyotes, you name it. It's not abnormal to find animal bones scattered through the woods around here.

No, so this has happened. Legitimately happened. So I was like, oh, like, I would you even be able to tell? But I mean, I guess it hasn't been that long. I would still kind of have like a human arm formsh.

Well, let me describe this a little bit more to you, and let's actually use Officer Schwartz description.

Okay.

They were actually one of the offers who arrived on the scene right after the call occurred, so they said in the report quote, she took me to the rear door of her apartment, and in a bluish bag, she handed me the arm of a female. The lower left arm on the fingernails was a white nail polish. Wow, clearly identifiable as a human arm. I'm assuming from the description from the elbow down, hands, fingers, you name it, okay?

Can I actually actually just mention here that I'm I don't know why, but I was like surprised that she took it home with her. I feel like I would just well, it was leave it there.

It was like kind of the front lawn where the dog brought it back, so it was like run off in the wooded area by there, like right by her house the dog came home.

So I mean I would I would leave it there, and I would notify someone just to clarify. But I'm like, I don't think i'd be bringing that into my house fair enough.

And I mean this is the seventies, so it's a little little bit of a different era, but all in the same. Yeah, I don't know if i'd be like holding onto the thing either. Yeah, So who knows. From there though, search party was sent out and they scoured the forest area known as hugh Dale quarry, and this is where the dog was gallivanting before it returned with the detached human limb. Okay, so the area is approximately one hundred and twenty acres and is nicknamed the Devil's Teeth.

Wow, that's quite a nickname it is.

And I couldn't find exactly why it has this nickname. And I don't know if it's still nicknamed this to this day, but back then it did have this nickname. But anyways, I do know it's kind of like a steeper rocky area, So I presume it's name such from the sharp nature of the rocks and the hazardous trails surrounding it. That makes sense, That's my assumption. Like, like you said, it makes sense. That's kind of why I

Discovery, their first their first okay.

Their first discovery was an upper arm bone.

Okay, Okay, I was thinking, like, there's gonna be like numerous bodies in here, but maybe just yeah.

Fits of after that, they had the rest of their discovery, okay, And it was a little ways up that they found the rest of the corpse laying face down, fully clothed, in a small clearing at the top of a steep hill. And this is where it gets a little more weird, a little more I don't know what's the best word, and I guess a cult, dark satanic, if you will. So, according to several witnesses at the scene, the skeletal like remains that were found were surrounded by a series of

Oh my gosh, hey, Like discovering a body would be terrifying enough, like just terrifying. I don't know. I just hope I never have to have that happen. But to find something where it was like displayed kind of.

Like that or just like this is some Blair witch. Shit.

Yeah, that would just hold that's neck, that would I would be freaked right out.

Yeah. Now there are other claims as well that tell stories of pentagrams being found around the scene.

Wow.

And others even go as far as saying that the remains of mutilated animals were found surrounding the found body.

Holy shit.

So, of course, these stories were only fueled by the fact that the remains were found in the area nicknamed the Devil's Teeth.

Yeah, I mean that you could some rumors would probably start, right.

Oh, yeah, rumors started, let's say that.

Yeah.

So the stories specifically, we're fed more and more in rumors and rooms and which way in that way, and things mixed up and just grew. Which a lot of these stories were denied by law enforcement. Now, approximately two weeks after the discovery, several newspapers, including the Newark Star Ledger and the New York Daily News, began running stories and reporting that the victim was a part of a gruesome occult sacrifice.

Wow. That's brutal.

Yeah. Apparently the sacrifice was one that would have been performed and carried out by course Satanists or potentially even a local coveent of witches who is known to operate in a nearby forest and wildlife reservation area.

Oh gay, this just keeps getting a little bit more like twisted and a little bit more like creepy.

It does. So they're basically without any evidence, based solely on rumors and stories. These new papers are pinning this on Satanists and a cup of witches.

Okay.

So while all the speculation and stories were running rampid, to say the least, investigators were busy trying to piece the puzzle together. The remains were taken in for an autopsy, and due to extreme decay, it took dental records to confirm that the body was in fact that of Janette to Palma. The autopsy was also unable to confirm the cause of death. Her remains in clothing showed no evidence

System, yeah, because I'm kind of thinking that she potentially consumed something.

Yeah, but there is no evidence of that other than the potential lead, which is kind of a rabbit hole that goes cold real fast. And then for undisclosed reasons, though the coroner apparently quote suspected that strangulation was the cause of death. Okay, and again that's undisclosed. So I'm not too sure why they suspected that.

It could even have been like a I don't know why it went there, like a hanging or something potentially right a hanging, I don't know, they hang the body and then place it.

Could I guess, but they wouldn't. It wouldn't have been the hang site because this is at the top of a hill.

Remember, Yeah, that's true.

So unless there's a single tall tree above where she specifically was, where she could hang from, but it doesn't seem that to be the case.

I'm so curious too. I hope that there's more information, Like I'm so curious if she was a part of this group or if she if they literally just kind of like either targeted her or kind of just like picked her up.

Like well, we'll kind of touch on some of that a little bit, yeah good. So, with little to go on and rumors spreading more and more each day, investigators had their hands absolutely full. But they and civilians in the area were likely already on edge because there was another murder that had occurred, actually ten months prior the John List murders had apparently taken place, which was a mass murder. This guy slaughtered his family in New Jersey.

Oh my gosh, of course it is, of course it is. Sorry, Yeah, that's just your mL there.

Jeanette's killer has never been found, and I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I really am.

I know people get pissed at me because I do two parters sometimes, what about you? You never get any nasty emails about or okay, mine aren't really that, it's just people kind of bugging me. But you never get any about like why a I was doing unsolved ones. Maybe people like unsolved cases. I don't know.

Either that or I'm about to receive an onslaught of fucking emails now, thanks, wow, appreciate that one.

Yeah, well, I mean I'll give you something to do next week.

Yeah, so yeah, that's the end. No, I'm just kidding. That's not the end. There is follow up though, so that is a plus. Just because it's unsolved doesn't mean we don't have more information. Okay, so this isn't the end just yet. Now, during the spring of twenty twenty one.

Oh, okay, you keep having these these older cases that all of a sudden, we're just like recently in the news. Didn't happen recently?

Yeah, the last one I did.

Okay, I'm like, I didn't just make that up. No.

A convicted New Jersey serial killer, Richard Cottingham, made a series of written statements to a journalist by the name of JESSEP. Potlack Now. He basically alluded to the fact that he could have possibly been the one to abduct and killed Jeanette while she while she was hitchhiking.

Oh, she I thought she was taking the train.

I mean that is what she told her mom. It could have been false information. She could have been saying one thing and doing something else right, or this.

Going somewhere else completely or something.

Or this could not be the guy too write so hard to say. Now this brings us to weird end. Jay Now Wikipedia an excerpt from Wikipedia says this about Weird NJ. Weird Enjay is a semi annual magazine that chronicles local legends, purported hauntings, ghost stories, folklore, unusual places or events, and other peculiarly peculiarities. I can't say that word. Try and say that five times.

That's hard.

Peculiarities. There you go in New Jersey. I still think I butchered it. But anyways, peculiar things that occurred in New Jersey. How's that? So? The journalist Jesse P. Poddock that had these written notes from this guy who claims to potentially have been involved, is a correspondent of Weird Jay, and he's also co authored a book with a man by the name of Mark Morin now, the book being titled Death on the Devil's Teeth. While I do need to preface this by saying I have yet to find

Okay, that's really weird.

So that aside, now there are reports of like the office of being flooded and they're saying some of the files got destroyed and that's kind of why it's missing and stuff. Who knows. Regardless, this helps massively. We have documents being praised with information.

Oh shit.

So until these files were released, there were so many questions surrounding the Satanic sacrifices and such. What's real, what's not, what's fact, what's fiction, what's been made up? What's a story? But the images in this file alone, the crime scene photos alone, debunk pretty much all of it.

Really, yes, Okay, I wasn't expecting that at all.

So in these photos, Jeannette's body is respectably blacked out from the from the crime scene photos. However, you do see the entire crime scene around her.

Okay, that's good though, that yeah.

Yeah, so like you know when you see like the out the chalk outline of yeah, it's like that chalk outline. Anything within it is black, everything out is still visible. So with these photos you can plainly see everything around it, the coffee like log frame around her, for example, the makeshift stick crosses, the mutilated animals, remains, all of it are not.

There, seriously, correct, Holy shit, all of that shit's just made up.

Well, she is laying amongst tall grass with random strewn sticks and logs that are clearly organically present and not in coffin like shapes, and there might be a couple in there that are just happen to be like cross like if you look hard enough.

Seriously.

Yeah, there's even a drawn diagram of how she was found laying on top of different strewn logs and definitely not a fucking coffin shape.

Okay, so this could just have been like kind of a random kill or a serial killer or whatever, but not necessarily like this big occult thing that yeah, people were kind of.

Pretty much nothing points to anything a cult, anything, black magic, anything weird sacrificial satanic. Nothing that's really.

Fucked up though, because as you do, like that just makes it's not helpful. I mean the police, I'm sure, I guess just knew those were all rumors and stuff the investigators, but it's not helpful for like solving this.

But the problem is the police, Yeah, they knew what they were looking for at the time. They're like, Okay, there's not any dead animals stream about the scene, and I don't know who blood waterfall coming from a moon, Like, there's none of this crazy shit that people are claiming. However, that's not helping the public come forward with information. Yeah, exactly, it's only misstrewing. It's placing thoughts in people's heads where it's like, oh, well, clearly we're looking for a fucking witch.

And not to say that it was this homeless man, because I feel like it wasn't, but like because when you mention him, I was like, Okay, well, like, there's no way that it could be this person, because like I'm envisioning like a group doing this exactly right. So I was like, no, that couldn't be him. But it could be. Then this was just kind of you.

Know, like, well, exactly, we're now on this path of perceiving who fits the crime scene the motive, when all that crime scene, the motive, the facts are all false. So we're cutting out an entire portion of people that could have been responsible. We're basically putting blinders on the public's eyes by having all these false stories out there.

Yeah, that's fucked up, isn't it. It really is. I was literally expecting you to be like, yeah, like all of that was like that that these photos were going to show a show that it legitimately was set up like that.

No, not at all. Now, another important piece that was come to surface with these files was the tall grass actually and overgrowth itself so weird. NJ reported that for years they were told by retired Springfield PD investigators that where Jeanette's body was found was a very well known quote party spot, so pips where people will go out party all night more often than not. Of course kids, because people of under age find solace in bush parties. They go away from cops, away from public we pority,

Dang, but you think that that would kind of show shown on the autopsy.

No, well it didn't show in the autopsy. No drugs or anything could be found on her system. Like I said, too late, might not have been able to be found. However, the photos alone disprove this, okay, because the photos show no sign of a party, no debris, no litter, no hands for example, and most notably, all the tall grass and undergrowth are around her are not trampled down. There's no signs of a bunch of people being in and around there.

But it would have been forty three or so days later. Would all that would there still show a lot of sign.

Put it this way, if you put a tent down for a night, it's probably going to still show that flat spot about a month later.

Yeah. One The thing is, if this was a popular spot for teenagers to party, like I mean, someone would have come across her body sooner, sooner, I would.

Think exactly and there's no reports of any items being found that would pertain to a party. You'd think there'd be a single cup, a single can, something.

Yeap, nothing smokes or like smoke butts.

Or something, a fire pit. Yeah, there's none of that. Another finding in these reports were her belongings. The contents of her purse were found pilot on the ground about eight feet away from where she was, But a purse, along with money or a wallet was missing, and so was the cross necklace that she was wearing around her neck, which very well could have been taken as a souvenir by whoever potentially killed her.

Or thought that it was worth money or something. Right, Yeah, jewelry because it's a jewelry.

Seems like they were after valuables if a wallet is missing. Yeah, and why is someone going to take the purse? You're either a sell it for money, B it's going to be a souvenir or C. I don't know. Something weird. I can't think of.

I can't think about Marge to carry the shit that you did steal?

Yeah, I guess, or maybe yeah, it's just like, oh, pretty purse, I want it for myself. Maybe that's an mL for it to be a female.

Yeah, yeah, I don't know. My brain for some reason went to mail, but yeah, who knows, really.

Who knows me think of it? Logically, more likely would be a female to take the purse, not saying a male can't, not saying anybody can't, just more likely it would.

Be a female, Yeah, because if the purse had any value whatsoever, the male might not necessarily know.

Yeap. So so yeah, there's not much else known about this case, and I'm assuming that there is going to be some more information within this book, which I definitely want to read, and I do recommend you guys go read because it's very new information. These guys finally got the records and the reports and went through it with a fine tooth comb, by the sounds of it. So yeah, and it.

Just came out, sorry, in twenty twenty one, this book.

They got the reports in twenty twenty one. I think the book came out last year in twenty twenty two.

Oh wow, okay, yeah.

Yeah, So I really hope that the fact that they actually have the recent release of these case files things surrounding your investigation. I hope something like sparks up some information is able to come forward. I really hope that Schenet's able to rest easy her killer being held accountable for what they've done. But until that potentially happens, it's currently an unsolved case.

Wow, and so she was sixteen? Hey, only correct? Gosh, that's way too young. Yeah, huh, that is okay. You know what, I'm not satisfied with this That is not enough information for me.

It's not And I tell you what, I'm not satisfied with this case either. I'm never satisfied with any case. Well.

No, Okay, that might have been a poor choice of words. I meant the information that was.

No, I know, I know what you mean. And the reason why I do think I'm kind of quote satisfied in a way with this story is the fact that there are people out there who are still searching, people who have no relation to the individuals involved, but they're just wanting to find the answers, and they're willing to dig. They're willing to get the proper information, they're willing to report, they're willing to tell the stories so that people like Jeanette can have hope one day of still having their

Yeah, even like you know she's no longer here, but still the closure and everything.

Exactly the closure. That's the word closure. Closure. Can we say that closure, that's the word of the day. Closure.

Yeah, everyone needs some good closure once in a while. Yeah, that's that word. Sounds fucking weird now the more you say it closure.

I want to a word that sounds really weird if you say it too many times.

Doile, Doiley, Yeah, that's dole, that's for sure, Doiley. Yeah. There's a lot of weird or words that you if you write or you like, are staring at it too long, they just start looking so weird.

Yeah. What But another thing I did want to touch the really quick, excuse me before we end this is the fact on all the rumors running rampant and just polluting the investigation.

I wonder it's not cool.

I wonder if something could have been found out if that didn't occur.

I don't well yeah, I mean honestly, I was gonna say, like the investigators knew what was what, But then a lot of times just you're like, I don't know what's the word bystanders or just like people off in the wherever they bystanders. Bystanders, they like they know things, right, and they report things, and they they recall things that they've seen that maybe they didn't think was a big deal,

Seemed like everyone the New York freaking news was doing it. Yes, but let me take it on this this way for a second. Here, let's play Devil's advocate and say that because the purse was taken, it is a woman, a singular woman. Okay, let's just say that for sake of this argument, the public thinks it's a bunch of witches, a satanic group, people who are think dark clothing, Gothic,

Yeah, yeah, I think or just yeah, like I said, recalled something from that night that made sense. Yep, that it could be related, and that because of all these rumors are like no way, like no way, there's no way that that could have been a part of this occult exactly.

Who knows. Maybe even a pawn chop downtown would have been sold her purse, but it didn't even come to light that the purse was missing for how many years?

Oh my gosh. Okay, Yeah, that's all like a little bit disturbing.

Actually, the pollution involved with this case, due to media sensationalizing it and the public gossiping, could have ruined this case.

We've done a few cases like that. Yeah, I mean, the media sometimes can work in good ways, but I would have to probably say the majority of times it doesn't, maybe not majority. There is sometimes where it does not help whatsoever.

I will say this, the internet is a fantastic tool. The Internet generally finds the right way. There's the trust me as bad shit on the internet. But if you are looking at a cold case, lots of times people will be looking into it and finding out who did it. I can always fuck up her name. The girl who potentially murdered her daughter just had the documentary What was her name? Again? You know who I'm talking about though?

Right now?

We talked about her on YouTube. We did a whole oh shit freaking podcast on her. The he follow up right Anyways, I'm pretty sure you guys know who're talking about someone like that? The Internet. She's been proven quote proven, not guilty, but the Internet's like, hold on, no, something's not right here, And the Internet still hammering down hard because they're looking, because they they're not something's not right. You know.

I can agree with that. When I was saying media, I was more so thinking like tabloids and stuff.

That's kind of where I was getting. The Internet is a fantastic one because it generally, like like water, it'll find the right path to get where it needs to eventually. But media and tabloids, which can be on the Internet too, will sensationalize for the sake of views, you know.

Yeah, And at that point in time, like it didn't need to be.

What did you call it, sensationalized.

Sensationalize, It just needed to be helped in solving this murder exactly, so brutal.

Yeah, so that was an interesting one, no kidding.

Yeah, I've never heard like, gosh, all of the ones lately been doing like I've never heard of laies.

I'm liking to go down these little rabbit holes. Yeah, I'm enjoying it, but I am sorry it's an unsolved case. I've been talking about one that's going to be a little more murdery and solved here coming up, and it is coming up. I've just uh, I don't know, it's an intimidating and it's intimidating me for some reason.

Well, you got to just do it.

Then, I'm really needing wanting to put the extra time into this one, so it'll happen here quick there you go.

Yeah, yeah, but still this this, I mean, these are still good like good cases to hear and stuff, so oh for.

Sure, don't get me wrong. But if you guys want to see or hear a little bit more, you can check out our social media Facebook, Instagram, we got our website, we got her YouTube, we got Patreon. Can go over there support us if you'd like. We can get a whole extra episode at the end of each month, plus a bunch more behind the scenes stuff. If not, you just want to listen here, cool beans, We're down with that. Yeah, I appreciate you just the same.

Yeah, we totally do, so should we. Uh, let's let's do the little game here.

Okay, okay, well it's this little game.

So we're gonna say stay wicked at the same time and see who can hold this stay longer.

Oh, I guarantee you I'm going to win this.

I actually think you will too. But whatever, do you know why?

I know this because on our trip to Vancouver and we're holding the breath under the bridge, you're just like until the bridge and the tunnel or the tunnels or whatever. Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know if people play that game, but when you go through a tunnel, you hold your breath. I have no idea why, but.

I don't know. Childhood games come back to haunt us.

Okay, so until next week three two one, Stay.

Wicked?

Get that just gone bad? Our voices were just too squeaky.

Yeah, we'll do it right right now. How's that Stay Wicked,