Following several strange events, a man found some odd footprints in the snow leading to his farmhouse out in the countryside. But they only led to his farmhouse and not away from it. This is the most notorious unsolved true crime case in German history. This is the case of hinter Kaifak. Warning. The following podcast contains graphic content and material intended for mature audience. Listener discretion is advised. Well. Hello there, my name's Ben.
And I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and.
Grim, a true crime podcast. Welcome back. We got a cool case for you guys today.
Sure sounds like it.
Yeah, well, this is when we've actually had requested several times over the course of the existence of our podcast.
I know very little details about this, so I'm going to be learning about it along with everyone else.
It's how can I sum this up into like a couple words? It is weird, Let's put it that way. Weird is how I would describe this case.
How is it going to leave us feeling weird? Weird? That's it, just weird.
It'll leave you wanting to learn more?
Yeah, okay, Well.
The problem is there isn't a whole lot to learn about it.
You love those cases, don't I do?
I really do. Yeah, But before we get into too much about this case, we got to thank our patrons. We do so signing up this month over on Patreon. We had Stephanie Alf, we had Mary I'm gonna say this wrong. I'm going do my best. Prove provenzano I butchered it, provenzano I think that's what I'm gonna go with. Aaron. I love how it's like just so easy. Didn't you didn'ton was probably like, yeah, you're gonna fuck up my name. I'm gonna keep a sip before you. Alyssa Bludorn and.
Christy another just simple love it.
Two people making it easy on us this week.
That's awesome. Thank you to all of you though.
That's so good, Thank you so much. We've got some stuff cooking up in the works, like a little giveaway coming down. They're going to see some behind the scenes stuff regarding that. So yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that giveaway is going to be so excited, like exciting. I cannot freaking wait. We got to get our ship together on it.
The only thing is we are going to be requesting patients because we have a couple of things coming in the mail that we're waiting on before like it all happens, and of course getting all this stuff together, our shit together, to make sure that we have it all elaborated correctly.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I was just on the island.
Yeah, you were relaxing.
Yeah, I feel very very chill.
Yeah.
And when you say the island vibe, oh yeah, say the island, Vancouver Island. There you go, I know, And it's just so that's just what everyone here refers to it as. But yeah, most of our listeners are not from BC, so they'd be like, what does that mean?
Yeah, so Vancouver Island. You were over in Tafino.
Yeah, it's dope, so dope. So I went as promised to Taco Fino and I put a Jacko sticker on there, and then I was also getting you beer. Yeah, and the Tafino Brewing, I think it's called Taffino Brewing. Cope. They had a door that had stickers all over and I was like, Oh, we're gonna put one on there, and so yeah, sweet, we're representing in there twice now.
So to keep our promise that we mentioned in the last episode. I believe it was the last one. Whoever sends us a selfie with those stickers, whoever's the first one, We'll send you some swag. We'll send you some.
Merch because, honestly, if you are into Fino, those are two places that you have to check out. I don't even like beer, but that brewery is cool.
It's good too, it's delicious. And taco Fino.
Oh my gosh. Well, I posted a photo of my meal, like I literally finished that meal, and then I was like, should I go stand back and line and get this again? So good.
So regarding Nicole being on vacation, I also had a crazy busy week at work, so we are a little bit behind on our social media. So we're sorry if we haven't replied. We're gonna be getting on that in the next door.
We're very behind.
I do have something that I want to just make a quick little highlight on in true crime news here coming out. Okay, did you hear about the Gabby Potito update?
I did not.
Actually, Well, Brian Laundry had a piece from his little notebook, like the notebook that was found with him, right, Yeah, the lawyer released a page from said notebook. Okay, and there's a particular sentence that I want to read.
Oh okay, I have no idea about this.
You ready for this? So this is directly from Brian Laundry's notebook. It says this, I don't know the extent of Gabby's injuries, only that she was in extreme pain. I ended her life. I thought it was merciful, that it was what she wanted. But I see now all the mistakes I made. I panicked, I was in shock, but from the moment I decided took away her pain, I knew I couldn't go on without her.
Yi.
That's what was found in his notebook. So I haven't even gone back to reflect on this case much since we did the one episode on it. Yeah, because I've been wanting more and more to come out. I've been wanting to let this stuff resurface before we do more research. So by the sounds of it, we probably cover this case here pretty quick because I think it's going to be coming to a close.
Yeah, that's crazy. I mean, I feel like it's kind of what everyone thought may have happened, you know, but then also really hoped itn't.
Yeah. So, but I mean, by the sounds of it and I'm going to say this right now, I haven't done my research regarding this. I pretty much read this sentence and that's it. But from the sounds of this sentence, it seems like something else could have happened. Maybe she fell off a cliff for an edge or something and he was trying to end her pain. Maybe he didn't initially attack her. I don't know.
Well, didn't she suffer from mental health though? If that's what I kind of almost took it as maybe that she was struggling in that sense and that he felt like he was taking.
Away the pain with that hard to say.
But yeah, we definitely need to read and read up on it a bit more. But gosh, that's just like it's devastating.
It is, it really is. So anyways, just wanted to touch on that because it was quite the crazy news that popped up. We are going to move on to hinter Kaifek Okay, you ready for this?
I am What do.
You know about the hinter Kaifak murders?
Literally I only know what the footprints, and I know at one point I knew more, but I cannot, for the life of me recall what oaks happened. So I would like to relearn.
Well, there is a lot of hearsay about this case. Let's put it that way, okay, But what we do know we're going to dive into. We're going to go over it all. So to start off, I'm going to zoom in on my word document here because it's a little bit too small.
And you haven't gone and got those glasses yet, have you glass? I don't need glasses, pretty sure you do, babe.
It's just my screen is fairly small and I'm not like right up close to it.
But I also think you need glasses.
Well I can, It's just I want to make it easier.
Oh my gosh. But then there's me or I'm trying to You're like showing what we were measuring something today, right, oh, to see if certain storage things will fit into the tiny home because we need a little bit better storage systems going on.
Thank you for clarifying what we were measuring. And I can't see how big that is?
Well, and like you're holding up the tape and I was like, I literally can't see the number, Like what is it? Because I didn't have my glasses on. Like I feel like I'm getting more and more blind as I get older.
That's that's age for you.
I don't love it.
I still don't require glasses, but I do think I'm getting to that point where I might start to need them.
So well, see, I don't wear mine half the time, so I mean if I wore them, I probably less struggle a little less.
Yeah, But anyways, I zoomed in on my screen here. It's a lot easier to read, so I'm not like focusing too much. So you ready for this mm hm. In the early nineteen twenties, the Hinterfec farm Hinterfec I should pronounce it properly. Hinterfec Farmstead sat lonely and isolated, and it was located near the woods outside the Bavarian town of Growburn, about seventy kilometers from Munich, Germany, and one kilometer behind or hinter in Germany of the town Kuifect.
Thus born the name hinter Kifecht Okay. It was the home of thirty five year old Victoria Gabriel and her two children, seven year old Cecilia and two year old Joseph, All, as well as the elderly parents I can't talk today. Elderly parents Andreas and Cezelia Gruber so Cecilia Junior and senior. Okay, and finally they're made Maria, who's age forty four. I'm not even going to try and say her name. I think it's Bomb Gardner. I just said I'm not going to try, and I just said it as well. Okay,
just dive in head first there. The family was known for keeping to themselves for the most part as they tended to their farm. They're mostly self sufficient and they didn't really have to go outside their property a whole lot. Like, they grew their own food. They had cattle and cows, that sort of stuff. It was pretty much like what they needed. They had love that right, that good old homestead.
That is literally like life goals for me.
One hundred percent. Little farm outain an oasis.
Yeah, oh yeah, I think our this so off topic story, but I think our first farm thing is going to be ducks.
Yeah.
Maybe I think we might purchase ducks soon.
Well, you might want to change your mind about the whole home setting thing once you learn a little more about this case. Oh shit, because on April first, in nineteen twenty two, neighbors began to get a little worried so things around their property were just a little bit too quiet. Young Cezelia missed school and the entire family failed to show up for church. And Victoria was a member of the choir, so it was very rare that this occurred.
So that was a big deal.
Yeah. And then on April third, Czelia would again miss school and it was noted that the family's mail had begun to pile up at the local post office. So on April fourth, neighbors decided it was time to investigate. So the neighbor, Lorenz Schlittenbauer, who was a farmer who just lived nearby, led the search party to check on the family and their farm. What they discovered was brutal and would likely haunt them for the rest of their lives. Oh No. In the barn they would find the remains
of four of the family residents, brutally murdered. Their bodies were covered in hay and stacked on top of one another. Inside the house, bodies of two year old Joseph and the maid Maria were found. Now, Maria had actually just started in the position of maid for the family. The previous maid had actually quit six months prior. Due to the belief that the hinter Kaifek house and farm were haunted.
Wha Oh seriously yep, So she's probably like counting her lucky stars that she dodged a serious bullet.
One hundred percent, and that whole thought process of it being haunted is exactly where we're going to go back to and start this story, because it seems like her beliefs may have had some serious weight and facts behind them.
Wow, or that's just like honestly her just totally listening her intuition too or something.
Hey, well we'll touch on it. It was a little more obvious than intuition, okay, because strange things did begin to occur around the hinter Kaifak house in the earlier months of nineteen twenty two. So as I mentioned the previous maid, like I said, quit gone, and by the time she left, she was one hundred percent like worn out from lack of sleep. It had been widely claimed that for her reason of leaving was she heard strange noises coming from the attic and believed that the house
was haunted as a result. She wasn't alone, though, many members of the family heard noises such as footsteps coming from the attic as well, so it wasn't so much a oh an intuition, am I gut feeling.
It was happening.
It was happening. It was a fact there was noises coming from up yonder.
Oh my gosh. Okay, that's just like terrifying. I don't actually know if I would be able to just continue living there, Like I think I'd hear like what or maybe twice and I'd just be like no, yeah.
But there's a difference of Ah. I mean, nowadays you can just pick up a move if you want. It's not quite so easy back in the nineteen twenties, I guess, like we're talking around like World War One and stuff, right, I.
Mean, it wouldn't be super easy for anyone if you like owned your house and shit, what are you supposed to.
Do but sell it? But yeah, oh boy, don't you have to like confide in the realtor and stuff and actually disclose that sort of information if there's potential hauntings or murders in your house and stuff.
Murders and like I believe so I'm not certain about hauntings, but probably, but I mean, hey, that could just be like if it only happened a couple times.
That's true, because the wind, how do you exactly quantify him haunting?
Yeah, so it could literally just you could say it was like your imagination.
It was the wind.
Yeah, we left our window open in the attic for a couple of days.
Yeah, there you go, there's a raccoon up there. Anyways, Andreas Kruber had conversations regarding some of these strange happenings with at least one of their neighbors. He had mentioned that one night he had discovered something odd on this property. Footprints, the very footprints that you were talking about a moment earlier. Now, the property at the time was covered in a blanket of thick white snow. That coat of the fields and the trees beyond the property, right out of the forest
and the tree line. A single set of footprints led to Andrea's property and all the way up to his home, but they did not lead away.
Huh oh.
Yeah, one set came in. It wasn't from him. It wasn't anyone else in the family either. One set came in, but they didn't go back.
I don't know though, what happens if it is one of the family members that was just not emitting two right, I don't know.
Okay, fair enough, Devil's advocate here, how did the family member get all the way out in the bush and then walk into the house.
I don't know. Maybe they were like off drinking somewhere and they should have been home and they're just like, well, you would probably notice if the footprints were staggering, right, Yeah, fair enough? But yeah, no, that it would be very alarming.
It was.
Oh, I think you especially, you would be like no, like, there's just no way you can handle that.
No.
I would be going through like everything, like everything, I'd be looking in a fucking cleen xbox to see if there's someone hiding in that bitch.
I think I could let something like that go a little bit easier than you. But yeah, that would drive you wild.
I'm paranoid with that sort of shit.
Yeah.
Now, he had also found that the shed on their property had its lock broken and smashed. The metal lock was dangling, and the wood surrounding the lock had been scratched and scraped around it. Now, it appeared, and someone was rifling around inside the shed, but nothing seemed to be missing or stolen. No one seemed to know anything or see anything regarding anything about these incidents, not the family, not Andreas, not the neighbors. Now, later that same night,
the family was awake late into the evening. It was said that I can't say this name. What was it? How'd I say it again?
A daughter's name?
Yes, Oh crap, Celia. I just need to think instead of a ce, I need to say with A with an S, Sazilia.
And it's probably spelt how's it spelled.
C A z I l I A. Oh. Okay, so it's like Kazilia. But yeah, so it's Sazilia.
Uh.
So they were up late because Cecilia Senior had apparently and an explicit and explicitly run off, and the rest of the family had been up looking for her.
Okay, sorry, this is the grandma.
Yes, okay, so she was out gallivanting in the bush like you were just saying, though she was leaving footprints around.
Okay, but hey, maybe that was to grandma.
Then maybe maybe Now, though it was never explained why she had run off, she was brought back safely. However, during the search, Andreas came across something else that was odd and he couldn't explain. It was a newspaper. Now, the papers seem to have urged, I can't talk today. Holy shit, I'm sorry. Guys originated there we go from Munich, but no one had purchased such paper. In fact, no one ever purchased a paper from Munich, not them, or again anyone around the farm, not neighbors or anything.
And was it from like the same time.
Period, Yes, yes it was? Yeah?
Really okay? That that would be something that would drive me fucking nuts. Really, I don't think I could handle that.
That one won't wouldn't drive me, Oh.
No, I would. That one would drive me wild. I would be like, why the fuck is this here? Who brought this here? Like, I wouldn't be able to let that one go. But footprints, But footprints I could see.
I'm like, who the fuck's footprints are those that shows tangible evidence of a person being there. A newspaper could have fallen off the back of something or blown in from the wind.
I don't know that is in your house though, Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know. Newspaper is an item. Footprints are evidence of a person in my opinion, So the footprints would drive me more nuts. Anyways, after Andreas had talked to the delivering man of the paper, he had learned that he never delivered such paper either, and in all honesty, the postman didn't seem to think much of this and thought it was odd that Andreas was so concerned over
a newspaper from Munich. But the delivery guy wasn't the one with the footsteps leading onto his property and continuing above his head at night as he slept. So I think Andreas had every right to be a little concerned, especially when these things start adding up.
Oh yeah, if too many things are happening, then you're just anything is going to put you on edge.
Yeah. I mean if you think about it, one thing alone okay, yeah, sure, footprints okay, yeah, sure, a paper okay, yeah, or someone broke into my shed okay, yeah, hearing noises in the.
Attic, Okay, they're hearing noises. An addict alone would be enough, Okay, But.
I mean an old, older farmhouse, Yeah, could have been a squirrel up there. Yeah, and who knows, right, Yeah, But an accumulation of all these things, it's a lot, takes it to the next level, totally does Yeah. So now with each of these strange and unexplained things happening, another thing would happen that was a little bit more normal, but once combined with all these things again made it a little more suspicious. The only key they had to
their home had gone missing. The only key to their house.
Gone Okay, the fact that only one key is crazy.
Well, we are talking about nineteen twenties though, too, right, a little bit.
Not as simple just going down the street and getting another key cut.
Might not be. Yeah, So Andreas talked to their neighbor, Lorenz Schlittenbauer, the man who would later conduct the search party and find everyone on the Stone Boy, and he would tell police about how Andreas had asked us if anyone had seen their key, if he had seen it around or anything. Yeah, and he had actually implied of the key being stolen rather than simply being lost or misplaced, or at least he suspected.
Yeah. Fair enough, fair enough.
Really, well again, with all these sort of things accumulating and going on, Yeah, that's that's when people's thing mind start to wander, at least for me.
Yeah. Well, I mean, if you only had one key to your house and it's gone like that would not feel great.
And you're probably going to be making sure you look after that key, considering you only have one. So he's going to be going nuts. That's that would be me. My mind would be going nuts. I would be losing my shit.
Yeah no at that point.
Yeah yeah. So, I mean, something's clearly going on, and it's going on inside their home, and it didn't seem like anyone knew what it was, despite you know, questions, despite investigating, despite asking, despite searching, everything just seemed normal, no matter how hard they looked. Now, it's also said that Andreas declined to borrow a gun from one of his neighbors to help protect himself and his family. He felt he was fully capable of defending them without it,
and he would soon find out that he was wrong. Now, I do mention a little bit later on about firearms, but Andreas actually had firearms hisself as well. Okay, So, on the night of March thirty first, nineteen twenty two, their new maid would start working on the farm with the family, and unfortunately for her, it was very bad timing as it would be the last time she or the rest of the family would be seen alive.
Like she's literally started and then died.
Correct.
Wow.
It would be another four days after the night of March thirty first, before anything was discovered before anyone realized what had happened. So as I had mentioned the family had missed church, one of the kids had missed school. The multiple people stated they had stopped by the hinter Kaife family home to visit the family for various reasons, but none of them were met with a response. When they knocked on the door of the farmhouse. They weren't
met with much concern. Though it was odd, yes, but it's not like it's odd to say that someone could be out in the field working. It's not like it's odd to say someone could have been off in the barn, or they're off in the property.
Someone's taking single one of them though, that's when.
It starts to bring up the question. Some neighbors actually reported even seeing smoke rising out of the chimney from the home, so clearly someone must have been home.
Oh my goodness.
Others even reported peeking in the windows after knocking on the door and not being met with a response, and seeing food had been prepared. Also, others had reported that the cattle were getting fed. It was obvious someone was around and tending to the property one way or another. It was on April fourth of nineteen twenty two, when someone would finally realize something wasn't quite right. A repair man showed up to hinter Kaifak to repair something on
the farm equipment. He went on his way to the machine shed and he found out it was locked, so he proceeded to make his way up to the house to try and get someone to unlock it for him. But as he knocked, just like everybody else, he wasn't met with a response, but he did hear the family dog barking from inside the home. So without the response, and him being a handyman and good with tools, he went back to the shed and removed the door himself.
He did his work and replaced the door. Once he was done, he did the repairs as he needed and once he was done, he realized that the barn door was now wide open and the family dog is tied up outside the.
House and it was in the house before.
Correct Holy shit, But once again he couldn't find anyone that fucked that is so fucked you think so.
Yeah, excuse my French, but holy shit, I'd pee my pants.
Your eyes are just shifting back and forth.
What are you thinking, Well, I'm also watching the Scito that's after you.
I'm trying to get this little fucker.
That is so crazy that this person started a job to like the dog inside the house, the barn closed, finish the job, and those things are reversed, and yet he hasn't seen anyone or no one's like come to check on in him or anything like that is so whack whacked.
That is so wack, yo.
That is so whacked. Like, I I don't know that. I feel like I don't super believe in ghosts and stuff. But that's kind of fishy. A lot of the stuff's getting a little fishy.
That's kind of fishy. Okay, Well, he wasn't able to find anyone yet again, so he made his way to the neighbors and informed them that he was unable to speak with the family, but he wanted to pass it along that he had done the job that he had been hired to do.
Okay, what a good guy.
So this is when neighbors decided that they would go to the farm and search for the family. It had been four days no one had seen them or had even heard the droning of the farm equipment ringing across the fields. But they must be there now if the repairman or handyman if what he spoke was true, because barn door opened, the dogs outside right, these sort.
Of thanks gosh yeah.
So they made their way to hinder Kaifek and they entered the barn and that's when they quite literally stumbled across the bodies crudely covered in hay. Police were of course quickly called to the scene. There were a total of six people in the hinter Kaifak home who passed away on this terrible night. Andreas was dressed in only his undershirt and pants when he was found and Cecilia
nailed it. Senior, who was fully dressed, along with Victoria who was fully dressed but wore no shoes, and Cecilia Junior in her nightgown, were all found murdered in the.
Barn ah brutal.
After this, police determined whoever did this moved into the house for the rest of the family. The theory the police conducted was that whoever this was must have lured the family out to the barn, potentially one at a time, perhaps by letting out cattle or maybe leaving a door open.
Could have even been by getting the cattle to make a bunch of noise or something like that to lure them out to see what was going on, and then when the next person didn't return, the next went out to see what was happening.
I don't know about that, but okay, well, who knows. Could they not have just moved them out to the barn after they were like dead.
That's possible, But the thought was, Okay, they were like in their pajamas. Basically, they're throwing on their pants real quick or something to go out and check. Yeah, that's kind of the thought. And one thing's for sure. Luing each person out one to time in the evening would make for easier targets, especially if you're hiding in the shadows rather than bombarding a full household people.
And well, who was in the pot in that pile of four people?
Okay, so it's the grandparents, Andreas and Cecilia. Okay, their daughter Victoria I believe her name is, and then she has two kids of her own, and one of her kids, Cecilia Junior, is found in the barn.
Okay, Okay, got it, sure, I'm good.
Okay, So each victim was brutal bludgeoned in the head with some sort of sharp tool or implement oh boy. Most notably, seven year old Cezelia was found with the same wounds as everyone else battered among her along her head and face, but she was also found with a shattered jaw and clumps of her own hair tightly clenched in her hand as if she had ripped it from her own scalp.
Okay, that's odd, Okay.
Get ready for this. This led investigators to believe that she may have remained alive for several hours after being attacked. She could have been potentially writhing in pain as she laid with her deceased family members in the barn. It is assumed that she would have been pulling at her own hair due to the extreme pain she was feeling before her desk.
Man. That is sad as shit. Yes, and this little girl is like seven and in her nightgown. Oh my gosh, yes wow.
Now inside the house, two year old Joseph Gabriel was found with only a single blow to his head, but he was found dead as well, along with the maid Maria Bumgardner, who was attending her first day on the jaw. She was found stuffed under the bed next to her backpack full of personal possessions still unpacked from arriving at the house. Holy shit, that backpack is The key detail to the date of the attack was when she started, which was the four days prior.
To being found. Okay, I get it, because yeah, if it had been later on, then she might have been a little bit more settled in or something.
Yep, even unpacking another set of clothes or anything, but her bag was completely packed up. Still.
Good lord. They would probably just like get to know each other.
Probably most likely the family honestly probably enjoyed their first dinner being cooked by her before they went to bed. Or who knows, maybe they didn't even get to enjoy that dinner. Maybe whoever did this ate the dinner on their own.
Oh gosh, that's a thought and a half.
It's gross all in all, though, evidence was really hard to gather between the time of the murders and the time of the discovery, so many different people had visited the property, so much of it was tainted.
Oh.
It's even reported that one man had eaten food from the family's kitchen while they were waiting for police to arrive.
What yeah, like after they had found the bodies and stuff. Correct, just like goes in the fucking kitchen for a snack. Correct, Okay, that has to be a joke.
There's hardly any facts surrounding this case. Most of it is hearsay, but that is a report.
Yes, that is mind blowing that you literally are in a situation where a family has just been gone, they're gone, yeah, and you decide that you're hungry and going to see what they have for food.
Yeah, this person has the audacity to sit there and be like, all right, well, I'm gonna make myself a fucking sam Like, are you kidding me?
Holy shit, that's a lot okay, Okay.
So the police first suspected that the motive of this whole incident was robbery, and they questioned the neighbors. They even question like vagrants in the area and several inhabitants from the surrounding villages, but as it turned up with no leads. I also want to point this out somehow, the handyman, you know, the one who was there that day, he wasn't interviewed until eleven years after the murder in nineteen thirty three. Seriously, seriously, and it is unclear to this day as to why.
Huh.
Okay, Yeah, that's that's weird as fuck.
That seems super weird.
Yeah, so that aside, do with that information that you will. But robbery was quickly ruled out as well. In fact, that a large amount of money was actually found inside the home the family savings, so it was still relatively intact. So robbery kind of ruled out off the table. So police didn't have much to go on. It was mostly hearsay from the neighbors and an idea that they were looking for, you know, a murder weapon that was kind of like sharp slash, blunt ish. It's hard to really
go with much on that. Other than these things, the only real discovery police made during the investigation was that all the firearms of family had it's stashed in various places they were apparently missing following the murders.
Humhm. And basically all the other stuff just the stuff that they had told the neighbor basically too right, yeah hm.
Now whatever the case, one thing's for sure. It was clear that whoever was responsible had remained at the farm for several days. The cattle were being fed, food had been eaten. In fact, the entire supply of bread from the kitchen was gone, and someone had recently cut meat from the pantry. But I mean, that's about it. There's no more clues, there's no more evidence. Nothing. Even searching the house and in the attic where the alleged footsteps were heard turned up nothing.
That doesn't make a lot of sense to me, though. I just want to say this, because you murder an entire family, but you're going to stay living there and take care of the cattle.
Correct?
Why the fuck would you give a shit about the cattle?
Who fucking knows? That's part of the why the what?
That crazy? Yeah? That just like I mean I could see like just kind of hanging out and maybe chilling and like eat eating the food and stuff.
I can.
I get that, but like to also take care of, like the property doesn't make sense.
Well, the one thing for me is if there's an individual who's going to go on taking care of the cattle, they have some sort of tie to at least the area. There's a reason they're taking care of the cattle, right, There's a reason they're not family. Yeah, yeah, there's a reason they're not running either. A they want to stay at the house for as long as possible, so they don't want to cause a scene, right, okay, or b they don't want to draw suspicion from others in the area,
So for whatever reason they're trying to prolong. Prolonging is the goal one way or the other.
Well, I almost wond or two if they knew the family of sorts, it's possible potentially, and then they're just taking care of the household the situation. Hmmm, wow, wow wow.
Well, I said, evidence clues, nothing pretty much turned up, that is until one year later. Now the new owners of the property.
After oh my gosh, there's no way what I like that. I can't believe someone's living there.
Well, after this, well, the new owners decided to tear down the farmhouse.
Okay, that's a fair, fair thing.
That was after all, like the court proceedings and who owns what and all that sort of stuff. They decided that they were going to tear down the farmhouse, and upon doing so, they discovered the murder weapon. Oh now, initially the weapon was thought to be a pick axe that was found in the barn the night that everyone was discovered, and that pick axe was pointed out by the neighbor Lorenz, who officially initially went with the search party.
But the discovery of the farm tool was called a mattock and it was smeared with blood on the hand and stashed in a small nook on one of the sheds connected to the house, and it changed the idea on what the murder weapon was. Now. Police claim up and down that they searched the house and the area extremely thoroughly and they should have found that item in its location, which leads the theory that it was stashed in its hiding spot after the murder and after the investigation had taken place.
Wow.
So whoever it was had this went back to place it there.
Which I mean happens.
That's true, that's true, but that's just.
Like playing some serious games too.
Yeah. So you're probably looking at someone who lives in the area, in my opinion, But there's also people who think about, well, what if this person was still living in that house, those footsteps in the attic, What if there was a section of the house where they were hiding. What if people just didn't find that this person was hiding in the fucking walls or something. Oh my gosh, and maybe they were still there long after the investigation.
Oh I hate that so much. Can you imagine someone just living in your house. Oh there's like, I've heard of this happening before.
Yeah, there's stories of that.
Yeah.
So ugh. So that is pretty much all we know about the hinter Kaifak case. However, that doesn't mean that's the end of this because there are a lot and I mean a lot of theory I.
Could imagine, I could imagine.
So it's going to take us hours upon hours to even start going through all these theories. So I picked kind of the two most popular ones, and we're going to cover these two here. Hey, and it is going to start with Carl Gabriel, who is the husband of Victoria Gabriel. So this was the father of the two kids who was murdered, the husband of the woman who was murdered, part of this family, right, No.
Carl, they were obviously separated.
Well Carl, I'll tell you exactly here. He was reportedly killed previously in a war while serving in France by a shell attack on December of nineteen fourteen during the First World War. So I don't know if it was separation or if they were just separated via the war. You know, he had gone off to war, he had been drafted, whatever it was. But However, like many others who served World War One, his body had never actually been recovered. Now, after the murders, people began to speculate
on whether he had indeed died from the war. And it wasn't arbitrary speculation either, there was some motive behind the idea. Now, Victoria Gabriel had given birth to her son, Joseph, in her husband's absence, and it's unknown exactly who the father of the two year old Joseph was, but it was rumored to potentially be the son of Victoria and her father Andreas.
What yeah, oh, okay, I wasn't expecting that the.
Two had an incestuous relationship that was previously documented in court.
Is legit.
This is legit and was known by the surrounding village. Now, one thing that I'm not certain of is some reports say that it was potentially due to rape, and others say it was consensual. I cannot confirm either of those. The one thing that we do know for sure is that there are documents of this relationship.
Gross.
So, after the end of this Second World War, war, captives were released prematurely from Soviet captivity, and they had claimed to have been sent home by a German speaking Soviet officer who blatantly and like openly claimed to be the murderer of hinter Kaifek. It is theorized that this Soviet officer may have been Carl Gabriel himself, and some suggest that he had later on after these murderers fled to Russia.
Okay, but why would he ah, I mean, like, but he killed his daughter, he did? That doesn't make any sense.
Well, maybe he just wants to move on. Maybe he had so much anger, Maybe she was a byproduct of the whole thing and didn't even mean to kill her. It's hard to say. Maybe he was so messed up with his PTSD, because we know that's a.
Very real thing, very real thing.
Yes, maybe he came back and was so fucked up because he didn't know what to do with himself and he ended up going so far off the edge.
Yeah, because I just feel like that theory, I mean, it makes a little bit of sense.
With them.
There's some very much so innocent people in that situation. Oh yeah, the grandma. I was thinking the grandma and the daughter. But maybe not necessarily the gramma either, if she knew what the hell is going on? That's crazy.
So that's that's one popular theory though that one's a little bit out there, but it is. It is a popular theory. Now, one of the most prolific theories out there is actually surrounding Lorenz Schlittenbauer, who was the neighbor to hinter Kaife.
Okay, I've already thought this.
He was the one who actually led the search party that day. So it is thought that Lorenz could have also had relationship to Victoria Gabell and fathered Joseph. Now, Lorenz had actually already previously had divorced with his I don't actually I can't remember. I don't have the note in here. I can't remember if it's divorced or if it's widowed. But he was now separated from his previous wife. Previous wife, So Lorenz came under suspicion by locals early
in the investigation because several suspicious actions. Immediately after the discoveries of the body. Now and Lorenz and his friends arrived to investigate, Lorenz apparently unlocked the front door of the house with the key.
I was gonna be like, is he eaten a sandwich? I wasn't huondering is that him. But oh my.
Gosh, he unlocked the house with a key. Wow. And he entered the house very specifically alone before anyone else was able to go in with him.
Wow.
But he made sure that he had eyewitnesses seen him enter. He made sure he had eyewitnesses watching him disturb the bodies, disturb the scene. He though I couldn't find notes on this, he very well could have been the individual who had eaten food in the kitchen. He was fucking shit up with witnesses showing Oh no, if there's fingerprints there, it's Lorenz because I just saw him over there.
Well yeah, and also very much doll makes sense that he would be taking care of the cattle and stuff too, yeap.
And it also makes very much sense that he could return to hide a murder weapon.
Yeah, one hundred percent.
And it also makes very much sense that he was conveniently the one to point out, oh hey, that pickaxe over there looks like the murder.
Weapon, which would It doesn't make any sense because the murder weapon would be covered in blood, and you would think there had had to have been so so if that one had no blood on it, that's dumb.
Yeah. Now I do want to point out, it is possible that he acquired a key by other means, such as being given one for neighborly duties. I mean, we all at least had a neighbor at some point that probably had access to our apartment or house or no, someone who does, which.
We're all going to rethink at this time.
I think, or if he did have a relationship with Victoria, very well could have been like, here's the key for my secret lover.
Right, Yeah, but there was apparently only one written key for the house.
That's true, but that doesn't mean another one couldn't have been made without others.
Not at some point, you mean, even after that conversation, perhaps, I think.
Okay, so who knows now. When asked about why he went into the house alone, he stated he was looking for his son Joseph.
Like, is that the little boy's name?
That's a little boy's name, that's a two year old? Yes, okay, So it leads even more suspicion that, well, is he the dad? What the so? Finally, according to reports, Lorenz was actually found visiting the remains of the demolished hinter Kaifak home in nineteen twenty five, and when he was asked why he was visiting, he made a very odd statement. He said that the perpetrators attempted to bury the family's remains in the barn, and that had been hindered by
the frozen ground. Now we remember there's all this snow, right, Yeah, it is exactly frozen. And I don't know if anyone out there knows what it's like digging frozen ground.
But it's pretty much impossible.
Yeah, good luck. It's like it's like digging concrete. Not going to happen. So this could show intimate knowledge of the case. It could show that he was there, it could show it could have been him. It could show that he was just simply making an educated guest.
Though too well, unless there was some sort of evidence in the barn to show that it was an attempt made. Right, maybe there was a shovel and it looked like a few dense or whatever into the frozen ground.
Why was that never showed in the case though? Why was that never showed to investigators? If that was maybe they missed shit.
This already missed some other shit.
Yeah, potentially, Either way, there's no way to know for sure if that was anything to show he did it or not, but it's just another weird thing.
Well, no, I was playing devil's advocate there, But I think it makes sense that it was him. Even as you were like presenting all this as like it might the back of my head, I'm like, he's sketched. There's something sketch about him. I don't know why he does that.
He seemed sketch to me, and I tried not to portray it in a way where he seems sketched.
Well you didn't, but there was just like something happened, something red flag.
Well this I don't know if this is going to save him or not and tear down that red flag. But before his death in nineteen forty one, Lorenz conducted and won several civil claim for slander against persons who described him as quote murder of hinter Kaifek.
I mean, that's pretty sad if he didn't do it right and then everyone's accusing him like that's terrible it is.
I mean, yeah, how do you go about not being a suspect though? Like, if you are a suspect and people think you did it and it's they've got tangible reason to think and say, so, how do you dig
yourself out? Of that, but clearly they didn't really have anything tangible because and I'm just gonna play the two sides of this coin here, because either he didn't do it, or he was smart enough to make sure he covered his tracks in the way of that night he did fuck up the crime scene enough and did have eyewitnesses to make sure that they clarified it was moved. He was just over here touching that to give him reason to have his prints in whatever around the scene.
Well.
Interesting, So the case was closed in nineteen fifty five. It was closed and titled to be you know, unsolved, though it had been revisited and again closed since then, but still no new leads or evidence has ever been found. The case of hinter Kaifek remains a mystery, and after one hundred years of being unsolved, it is presumed that it will probably stay that way for the rest of time.
Well, I mean, they didn't have any means or they didn't collect evidence in such like they do nowadays, right, so how correct put it? But I also just have to say that handyman.
Like eleven years later and the fact.
That he would have known ended up knowing what happened, and like that would be something that would be kind of I don't know. I would hate just living my life knowing that he could have very easily die too.
Yep. Right, Well, he's sitting here working on some farm equipment, probably turning over the engine. Probably Love is not paying attention, Yeah, probably having his back to the door.
When the murderer is there. It has to have been.
Right now, this begs the question did the murderer know they were there? Did the murderer know what this handyman was working?
Yeah, probably because you would have thought that they would have heard them.
Yeah. Well, and actually this is something I didn't mention in this case at all, and it is a good time to actually bring it up. I believe, if I get this correct, you have to go through like the machine shed where he was working in the machinery. You have to go through there to go into the door of the barn. Now, in that barn is where the bodies were found. Okay, Okay, Now there was another door that I guess was wide open or something somewhere when he came out. But inside that barn is where the
bodies were found. Now, the theory of the individual luring people out one at a time into the barn.
Mm hmm.
They did a test to see if you could hear someone screaming from that barn, from the house. From the barn, you could not hear anyone screaming, which begs a question, could you hear a piece of equipment running? Did that murderer or whoever it was, know the handyman was working in there at the time. If they had known, did they just let him go or did they?
Yeah, maybe they didn't, because the thing is when the handyman arrived, they maybe weren't even there right, and like wandered over at some point and like to let that all go and stuff.
Yeah, who knows.
Oh my gosh, that's so crazy.
That's the case of hinter Kaifak. It is a mind fuck. And the biggest thing about it is there is such little information there is well there's a lot of information, but there's little facts. Good luck tracking down and proving much of this. Now. There are books, there are documentaries, and I believe there is the historic site as well, but a lot of the things are not written in facts. It's all hearsay, it's all the stories.
Yeah. I would like to do a deep dive almost into the more theories too, like that would be interesting to just read what people have to say.
Yeah, there are some wild theories out there, so if you guys want to dive into them, go ahead. Let us know what you think. I've done enough research on this case. I'm calling it quits after this.
No, that's totally fair. Yeah, that's a lot.
Yeah, So thank you for listening, guys, You really appreciate you. If you want to, head on over to our Instagram, our Facebook, our Patreon, our website, whatever. All the links are down below on Patreon. Over the course of probably the next month or so, we're going to be doing a lot of behind the scenes on things like our giveaway and a cool sale we have going on coming
up here quick, a lot of cool stuff. So you want to get that behind the scenes, check it out on Patreon as long or along with the monthly episode, the exclusive one only for patrons that comes out at the end of every month.
Yeah, so there's one coming out in a few days here.
Nichole's doing this one, right, I am.
Yeah.
Do you even know what it is yet?
I do, actually, but I'm not giving any hints.
Oh shit, she doesn't know?
Sure, Well, I would just have to double check the name.
Though you don't have to tell us. I'm just calling your bluff as all I.
Do know it though, Okay, it is actually very interesting. It's a Canadian case so and I feel like it's just a wild story. And I'm curious if many people even heard the story because I had not fair enough.
So well, I look forward to it.
Yeah. Anyway, well done, Thank you so much for listening, and as always, until next time, stay wicked.