Hey, what's up.
My name's Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast.
Warning the following podcast it contains content and material intended for mature audience listener discretion. Here we are episode two, Episode number two. No longer just a one and done. This is officially a series we made it. Cheers to that series. Cheers boom.
What's you're drinking?
Well, funny you should ask. First off, Okay, a quick shout out to a local brewery, Trench. I love Trench brewing.
We love Trench.
So if you guys are listening, sponsor us. That's what we're saying. I'm specifically going to be messaging you're just right out there, but actually thankfully because of you. Okay, long story short, So for everyone listening, there's this local alefest that usually happens with craft beer, and it's very hard to get tickets to. Generally, it's a pretty small thing.
Local craft breweries, you know, put their stuff together and you go there and you try all this stuff, and the craft breweries it's it's a drunken evening of lots of different beer. Basically, you try all this stuff. However, because of COVID. Yeah, that's not gonna happen this year. It's what they did is they decided to come out with a pack of beer from a bunch of local breweries. I had it in my calendar for like a month. I've been waiting to buy this pack of beer, waiting and waiting.
Key, I didn't quite realize to the extent of like how important this was.
Oh yeah, I had a reminder in my calendar for three days prior to it was a really three days in a row. I had a reminder pop up on my phone.
Oh gosh, okay.
Because they went on sale on a Friday morning, and I was like, I'm going to go to the store as soon as they wake up from work. And I'm on night shift. So I wake up with like noon, stores has been already open for like three hours, and I'm like, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna get my case of beer right away. Because I only made thirteen hundred cases and a small town, it's not that big of a deal. However, I woke up and they're all sold out.
We had talked about me going and getting.
Them, and that that didn't work out. However, I am holding the trench brewing beer from that pack right now, and do you want to go on for the rest of the story.
Well, basically, in a span of twenty four hours, I was the worst wife of the year and then the best wife of the year.
Well I never said you were the worst.
Way I felt that way because I was like, holy freak, Like I was up and there's like a liquor store two minutes away, and I could have just hopped in my civic and freaking.
Got you this shout out to civic sponsor us, yeah and now handait, let's get on us here.
But I didn't do that. I was working, though, and I feel like most people who actually went and got it were probably supposed to be work. Probably, but anyway, that's aside to the point. So I had just stuck it up on my Instagram story saying, oh, we missed out, like if anyone has an extra pack, like, let me know, I'll totally take it off your hands. And we had friends that had an extra pack and I was doing a photo shoot with them the next day, so I
uh picked it up and came home and surprised. Okay, even before the photo shoot, I knew I was getting this, And I almost told you because I can't keep surprising, never keep. But I didn't.
I didn't tell, So I.
Came in the house, I had this pack and I filmed your reaction. I need to make a TikTok out of that.
Yeah, you do, you do.
But it was awesome. I was so excited wife for.
The year right there. That's why you're a keeper, because you buy me beer that I can't buy myself.
Yeah, yeah, that's the only reason. Okay, Well, and I'm drinking Trench too. I'm drinking their Wild Burry Vodka Seltzer sltzer.
It's like a spritzer seltzer, like a I don't know, bubbly.
Drink, and it's actually quite good. But I do think their peach rosemary is my fave.
Yeah, but you're out of that, so you're on your already drink. You're on your backup now.
Yeah, it's still a good backup.
It's a good backup anything from Trench. Highly recommend that they're great people, great place, great drinks. Go to them all the time.
Totally.
Do we have anything that we need to announce or say anything? Oh? Do we say that we have an Instagram in our last podcast.
If we feel like we did, I don't know if we didn't. We have an.
Instagram, Yeah, go check us out. It's wicked and gram just over on Instagram boom.
Yeah, and we'll be posting piving personal stuff about us.
But then also every episode will be posting stuff and like.
Photos from the cases and stuff. If people want a little bit more like detail, they can go to Instagram and look at a cool photo exactly.
And of course I'm going to make sure that I put show notes in the description of this podcast as well, So if you want to find anything, do your own little research, because I can't cover everything. All the links down below, and you can go down the rabbit hole that it's the internet to find even more because I can't post every link. I went through so many links, but I posted the big ones.
Oh gosh. Well, and then if you like the podcast would be hours two, you can probably have an hour like two hour long podcasts on cases.
Oh, I'm like the podfather Joe Rogan himself. His podcasts are hours long, like hours.
Long, right, I remember you telling me that, and I was like, how do you both time for that? I can't really listen to a podcast for longer than an hour.
I'm pretty sure it's mostly just people sitting back smoking a joint and time just like flies by for him sort of thing. I mean, Joe Rogan's a stoner himself, so I'm pretty sure it's a stoner audience he has.
Okay, See, I didn't know that. I don't know him. Well, well I cannot that you do. But I mean, like I don't follow him.
I don't. I don't necessarily follow him, but I do like watching some of his highlights sometimes. He's a smart guy. He's a smart, very healthy, very active guy. But he does like his marijuana.
I know him from Fear Factor.
Oh, the Fear Factor guy.
I was all about freaking Fear Factor man.
That show was the shit good old days man.
And that just like dated us real real bad.
Oh yeah, in the nineties or did it run into the two thousands.
I don't even know. I just remember it was always so terrifying when they were getting like covered with snakes or insects, Like I just I could not deal with that.
Just mind over matter, Oh there is.
I would rather eat the bug than that.
True.
Okay.
What we are going to do, though, is we are going to take ourselves back to early two well, I guess late two thousands. This case actually takes place in July thirtieth of two.
Thousand and eight, two thousand and eight.
Yes, well, people are actually saying, like friends and stuff we were talking to are like, can you do like a Canadian case. I want to hear Canadian stuff. I plan on doing like worldwide cases, but I definitely want to hit stuff close to home. And I remember specifically, like when this happened.
I remember this in the news.
It was all over the news.
It was crazy, like holy, how could this happen?
Like this warning to anyone listening to this case or this this podcast. This is a particularly gruesome case and very controversial as well. We'll get into why it's controversial here in a little bit, but it's very controversial. I'm going to try and stay as neutral as possible for this one and kind of ride in between, although I do have I will voice my opinion, but I'll present it as neutral as possible.
That's fair, that's good.
Okay. So this is actually basically forever get to be known as the Greyhound bus beheading.
Oh okay, it has a name.
Well, I mean, it's anytime someone talks about it. That's that's what they refer to it as it's a greyhound bus beheading or a greyhound beheading or a greyhound murder, something along those lines. It's always attached to greyhound, right, which is unfortunate for that company.
But they're still around, aren't they Greyhounds? Oh? Yeah they are because we lost our greyhound. But they's still a thing.
Yeah. Well, because we're so far north in British Columbia, it's like who wants to travel there? Although although the individual we were covering today, Tim McClain, who was the individual murdered on the greyhound bus, he was on his way to Winnipeg because he was packing up his belonging to because he was actually moving to British Columbia.
Oh to Prince George.
Yep, so he was headed. He left his job. Well maybe sorry not Prince stroutge Sorr. He was. He was packing up his stuff from where he was in Edmonton. He was a carnee and he was traveling back and forth, okay, and he was going over to Winnipeg, go home, get his stuff there, and he's going to travel to BC because he worked as a carne and he was all over the place, you know, doing carnivals, and he fell in love with BC. Anyways, I'm getting ahead of myself. I've got my pages of notes.
I'm excited for this.
Let's start at the very beginning. So Tim McLean he was actually twenty two years old when he unfortunately lost his life. Yeah, it really is. He was born October third, nineteen eighty five, so he is older than us. By by now he would be what he would be like twenty or thirty five.
I think you're making do math three years older than us, so thirty five?
Yeah, oh you're turning thirty six this year. Yeah, okay. So he lived in Eliott, Manitoba, which is just outside of Winnipeg. It's like thirty kilometers west. And this town is like super small, Like I don't even know if you can, I don't they have a specific name for places that are this big. I'm not too sure what it is. But the population was five hundred and sixty two.
Oh wow, it's really.
Sciny, like everyone there knows everybody. Yeah, I can't only imagine how like how this hit home when people heard of his password.
Yeah.
So Tim was like a super active person. He loved sports, you know, adventuring and clearly being a carney traveling that sort of stuff. He was obsessed with his motorcycles. If you look up photos of him, often he's wearing like an occ hat which is the Orange County Choppers. Yeah, like you remember that show they had and everything?
Yeah, totally remember.
So, yeah, he was all into that, that sort of stuff.
He was.
He always loved like playing lighthearted pranks too. He was very like a personal, happy kind of guy.
Oh he sounds wonderful.
Oh yeah, he was all around happy, made friends, super easy and like his family actually even said, like I believe it was his obituary even they said that he was always saw the good in everyone.
Oh you read his obituary.
I did. Yes, I did quite a bit of digging, I know, but that.
Just for some reason hit me. I don't know why.
He was a good guy. Like reading everything I could and there, it was actually really hard to find information on him specifically. But but what I did find he seemed like he was an all around really good individual. Awesome, and he actually he had a friend named Tiffany. Like he made friends left, right and center. So he had an abundance of friends. I'm sure but his friend Tiffany, she was actually employed at the Red River Exhibition in Winnipeg, and she told him like, hey, you know, like this
is a this is a dope place to work. You should come work with me. And that's that's how he got his job as a carney.
Okay.
And that now, this red River Exhibition, it was like part of the Western carnival circuit. So, like I said, they would travel over like into BC or Alberta doing their carnival circuits all over the place. Right now, like his charismas he's such a nice guy, easy going, easy to talk to, natural carney, like right off the get go, like he like thrived in this environment, like to the point where he was making really good money. And he was even running his own midway shows like quite shortly
after he joined. Okay, so I heard I another podcast I listened to. I'm not I couldn't find how much he was making, but they said that he was making up to like a thousand dollars a week and in two thousand and eight, Like that's that's that's a lot. Like he's making good bag.
I didn't realize that they would make that kind of money.
I mean, clearly they were. I don't know how accurate that is, but.
That's what I heard. I do think carnies and stuff back then were more popular than they are now.
Carnivals You mean carnies, Oh sorry, carnivals. Yeah, I mean carnees. Have they ever really been that popular? They're not known to be the nicest of folk. No, a little bit skeevee. But by the sounds of it, like to be making that much money in the Christmas he had, I'm pretty sure he was definitely liked in the circuit. Yeah, so he was. He was making good money, which great for him.
But I guess he was like he had a bit of a party life, you know, so he was spending it pretty much just as fast as he made so, which would lead him to go on to the next carnival, next carnival. You know, keep making that money. We all do that. The higher money you make, the more you spend.
Oh yeah, you always spend what you have.
Oh easy, Hey, I found this extra fifty dollars in my pocket. Let's let's go buy something that's dinner. Hey, we should do that. Anyways, I'm always down for ordering dinner. Okay. So by the end of July, two thousand and eight, he worked his last carnival actually the Klondike Days in Edmonton, some exhibition there. I didn't do my research on that one,
but some exhibition in Edmonton. That was his last carnie, A carnival he worked because traveling all over Western Canada, he fell in love with British Columbia and he wanted to move over into BC.
Oh. I don't blame him.
Right, I mean it's gorgeous here. It's a beautiful British Columbia for a reason.
Yeah, like I want to move, but I don't necessarily want to move from Peach or from BC oh one hundred percent.
I want to stay in BC. Yeah, for life, for lifers. So yeah, he was not following the carnival to its next stop, which was going to be in Regina, Saskatchewan. He wanted to move to BC, but he was on his way home to Winnipeg via bus, the Greyhound bus, which was his preferred method of travel. I mean, as a carnival worker, you're traveling bus all the time, right, So that's what he's used to. There was reports of, you know, people offering to help pitch in and get
him a plane ticket home. And he's like, no, no, I'm good, take the bus. Oh no, and that bus was number eleven seventy.
I hate when they had other options, right, It's like that they could have taken but they didn't. And then and that's like their worst decision of their life.
Hindsight's twenty twenty.
Something could have happened to who knows, Maybe it was just his time, right, like final destination.
Remember those movies, movies you don't go your you don't go on the roller coaster ride and Carnival incident. Right off the path of that movie, I just realize, you don't go on the roller coaster ride, you don't die. And then it's like, oh, you just you escape death. You were supposed to die in there, that was your fate. And then like death is chasing.
You up throughout the movie, you just die another way exactly.
So I mean, who knows, maybe that maybe that is how life works. There's no one to say it is, yep. So anyways, that's that's Tim. That's Unfortunately Tim was is our victim. Vince Lee is the perpetrator in this case. So I keep picking up my drink here.
Yeah, it's like you want to drink just have a drink.
It's good. It's a sour beer and I'm not even much for sours.
Usually, but you like it.
I do good. So little background on Vince. Vince Lee was a forty year old grint from Dangdong, China, I mean two thousand and five. He was actually diagnosed with schizophrenia, but he left that untreated, so he never took medication for it. It was just kind of like that's that's that.
So you can be diagnosed with something and it's like your choice to leave it untreated.
I mean, I'm sure in some cases, I'm not too sure on how schizophrenia is. I mean, who's going to really enforce you to take your medication?
True, when you're a grown person.
Like if you have arthritis and you're at home with your earthritis medication, who's to say you're taking it.
There's a slight difference between that and schizophrenia.
Not necessarily, I mean yes and no. But I mean, as of right now, there's no reason to assume that he's a harmful individual to himself or even anyone else.
True. Yeah, he's just diagnosed.
Yeah, So Vince was actually going through some hard times. He was like doing like job hopping, like medial type jobs, like anything you can get, like minimum wage sort of thing. He was currently working as a paper delivery guy person a paper delivery job. I don't know exactly what the job entailed, but it was a paper delivery job. That's what I found, okay. And he he was on his way from Edmonton to Winnipeg because he was going for
another job interview. He actually got time off his job to go to another job interview, which I mean, good on that boss. I can't imagine any boss that I've ever had giving me time off for a job interview.
Well, maybe they didn't know it was for another job.
Maybe that's true. That's true. I never really thought of it that way. Way to just like slander that boss, be like he's not actually a good guy.
Yeah, maybe he's not.
And he Vince actually has been has been working in Edmonton. He left his wife behind in Winnipeg. I believe his wife's name was Anna. He left because you know, he's going through hard times trying to find good jobs. He left his wife behind in Winnipeg. Do not split up, but he left her behind to go to work in Edmonton, find better prospecs of jobs and everything, and eventually their plan was Anna would move over to Edmonton with him. But clearly since he's going back to Winnipeg for another
job interview, it's not working out. It's not going well. So those guy's really on hard times, right. Yeah, So before he left for Winnipeg, actually he went to a local Canadian Tire And for those who are not familiar with Canadian Entire, it's like a hardware automotive store. It's like a it's like a wal Mart, but it's for like you go there by parts or paint or.
Camp It's almost has lots of things. It has kitchen stuff and furniture and stuff too.
Yeah, it does, it does, but it's it's really hard to explain what it is. It is actually hard there's no produce. You don't go there by groceries or clothes, sporting goods, outdoor goods. There's automotive sections like it's that kind of store. Yeah, so that's what Canadian Tire is. And he went to Canadian Tire to buy himself a large hunting knife. Now, the reason why I bought this large hunting knife is because he said, God told him
your life is in danger. People will try and kill you and you need protection.
Wow.
Right, So that's why he went to Canadian Tire to purchase this hunting knife.
Okay, and he's purchasing this story on his way.
Home before he went home. Okay, so he's got the time off, he went purchased his hunting knife, and now he's going to hop on the bus to go home in Winnipeg for the job interviews. Okay, yeah, okay, So now that's kind of hit the background a bit there. And on July twenty ninth, Vince Lee boarded a bus bound for Winnipeg from Edmonton. Now this was the day before Tim left to Winnipeg. So the bus actually stopped.
The bus that Vince was on ended up stopping in eric'son Alberta for you know, pitstop, foodstop, bathroom break, whatever, right, people stretch their legs, and Vince actually stayed there. He didn't get back on the bus because again God told him that you need to stay here.
Okay. Oh no, so technically he should have been ahead of Ah.
He should have been one day ahead, yeah, Tim, but God told him to stay in Ericson And so Tim got off the bus and never got back on that bus or sorry, Vince got on that bus. I never got back on and the bus left without him. So Vince was left sitting on that bench all night, all night into the morning. And there was some witnesses witness statement saying that they saw Tim sitting on that bench about three in the morning, wide eyed VI or sorry, yes, yes, Vince,
Vince Lee you got me? You got me? Confuseder from I second guessed myself, Vince is sitting on this bench at three am, wide eye, just staring off into the night, sitting on that bench, and there's a sight in it, right. And shortly after that, there was a little later in the morning, around six in the morning, I believe there was a young kid who purchased a laptop from Vince. Vince took out his laptop, slapped a sign on it
saying six hundred dollars for sale. Kid drove by in his bike and was like, I don't have money for laptop. How much would you go? Kid had sixty bucks. Ben sold his laptop to this kid for sixty bucks. Sixty sixty bucks, so I mean sixty bucks for your six hundred dollars laptop to some kid at six am in the morning on a bus stop bench like there's there's clearly there's clearly something going on in his mind. Something's
not right. Though, even if we don't know what God has been specifically saying to me, y, yeah, there's clear indications that something is not right. Absolutely, So he stayed there the entire day and it was pretty well twenty four hours later where he boarded the bus back on.
He got back onto the bus bound for Winnipeg because he hadn't heard from God since he left the bus, and he stayed in eric Erickson nearly twenty four hours and when he got back on the bus, that bus he got on was number eleven seventy, the same bus Tim McLean's on.
Yes, twenty four hours is a long time to just be sitting there waiting.
Right while he was waiting for the voice to say something again and it never did. Wow, Okay. So he gets on the bus and he sits in one of the first front rows while Tim is actually sitting in one of the back rows. So there are almost a bus length apart, and there's thirty seven people on this bus. And I looked up. I don't know what model bus they were on, but about fifty five people is the normal amount of people a bus can fit. So this bus isn't packed, but it's it's fair.
It's a lot of people on the Yeah.
So this bus, you know, began its way over to Winnipeg, and it ended up making another stop in Brandon, Manitoba. You know, bathroom break, food break, whatever, may be filling up for gas, that sort of thing, right, And on that break, when everyone was getting back on, Vince decided he was going to change seats. So instead of sitting in one of the front rows, he continued past his seat he was sitting in, into the next one, into the next one, and he's looking at each seat on
his way bye. And he comes to the seat in the back where Tim is sitting, decides this is where he's gonna sit, and he sits down right next to Tim oh Man. Okay, So some people had noticed that Vince was having some odd behavior during this entire trip.
He was he was rocking back and forth. There was even a report of him he had to roll a toilet paper and he had an iced tea bottle of iced tea, and he would tuck the roll of toilet paper under his chin and then like unscrew the cap for the iced tea, to take a drink from the iced tea, screw the cat back on, and then take the toilet paper out from under his chin and hold on to him both.
Oh, that's interesting, that's very.
Weird, Like why wouldn't you just put the toilet paper down or put it in your bag? Who knows? Who knows what his thought process was, But he was doing interesting things like.
That, and it was I imagine you would before what's about to go down?
Right? And it was. It was progressively getting worse too. Eventually he was actually chanting in another language, chanting and muttering, so it got quite severe. All the while Tim is next to him, leaning against the window, trying to sleep with his headphones on, so not really the wiser of how the odd behavior is playing out next to him.
He's probably trying just like ignore him.
Probably.
Yeah.
So at approximately eight point thirty pm, Vince heard a voice that said, the man next to you has to die. No, and a witness across the aisle from Vince said he saw Vince reach into his bag and pull out a hunting knife and quickly began attacking and stabbing Tim McLean.
Oh no, oh no, okay, oh no.
So immediately, you know, someone screams because they just saw this happen. So they're screaming, no, stop the bus, stop the bus.
The bus pulls over the mid driving.
This is mid driving.
Okay, they're not even at a pit stop or stop. They're driving.
They're driving.
Okay, that's too much. I don't know why that makes it.
The bus driver pulled over on the shoulder of the road and everyone's getting out of the bus while Vince is leaned over and Tim is between Vince and the window with nowhere to go. Oh no, like just horrific. Yeah, So there are signs of defensive wounds, like Tim tried to defend himself or escape or even maybe fight back. He eventually ended up over the aisle. Some people say he tried to climb over the seat. I couldn't find
any report specifically of that. All I could see in any report was that he ended up in the aisle somehow with defensive wounds on.
His hands, so he tried. I wonder if they were both the same size or no.
Actually, Tim was not a very big individual. He was like your average kind of guy. By the photos I saw, I didn't see his weight or anything. But I would say he was probably I don't know, five ten hundred and ninety pounds, whereas Vince was. I believe Vince was six foot tall.
Oh, so he's much bigger.
And he was probably I would estimate to be two thirty maybe two.
Forty oh okay, So he didn't even like stand a chance.
Really, he had a much larger guy on top of him with a hunting knife. Yeah, and it it wasn't the case where it was like he just stabbed him a couple of times. He repeatedly, over and over and over, was stabbing him. And by the time that the bus was evacuated. I saw one report that they estimate there could have been up to sixty to eighty stab wounds by the time the bus was evacuated. So after Tim is laying in the middle of the aisle, the bus
is evacuated, Vince then tried to exit the bush. He goes to the front and tries to go out the door, but the bus driver I've got it. Sorry, I'm not even looking at my notes because I know this story so well by now. The bus driver's name was Bruce Martin. Him and a passenger from the bus and a truck
driver who had stopped was flagged down. The three of them managed to keep the door closed on Vince Lee, but Vince like they closed it on his arm as he's swinging the knife out the front door, like he's trying to I don't know if he's trying to kill someone else or if he was just trying to just slash his way through sort of thing to get away.
So like it was just Vince and Tim on the bus at that time, yes, And but they do they don't They probably don't even know if Tim was dead.
They don't know. But they close the door on Vince trying to escape, and they literally close it like on his arm, so they he gets his arm back and he goes back to Tim.
Oh, you know, I don't even know if that's like the right decision, but I guess it is. I don't know. I just feel okay, So.
Just hold on here for I know where you're going with this, because they just close the door on this guy, right. Yeah, Well, when Vince goes back to Tim to continue to like mutilate his body, they opened the door again and they one of the individuals I can't remember who it was.
I didn't write down, which if it was a bus driver or the trucker or one of the passengers went back on the bus to see what was happening, Like if Tim is okay, So he gets on the bus and he's standing about where the bus driver would be, and Tim is in the back of the bus with Vince, and he said he looked at Vince in the eye, and Vince had like an expressionless face and took his knife and began cutting off Tim's head. So in that instant,
he knew that Tim was not alive. Yes, So he left the bus and they closed the door again with Vince and Tim both inside the bus.
I mean, if he had that many stab rooms, he was probably like already dead. But then if they just had let Vince off and captured him in that moment, but who's going to capture I mean, but it was putting so many other people at risk because at that point, no one else was injured, really, right, it was just him. Oh okay, okay.
It's it's a struggle. I mean, you have someone being murdered. The first thing you need to do is get everyone safe.
Yeah, it's better that just one person, I guess is injured than.
Way more and it's not like they unknowingly just locked him up in there, like someone went back in there to try and take a look.
Right, That helps me a bit, it does.
There are good Samaritans. They did try and do what they could do.
Yeah, okay, huh.
So Vince unfortunately mutilated Tim to the point where he did fully decapitate his head and he was holding it up like a trophy expressionless though, like he wasn't showing it up, but he was just holding it up and walked towards the front of the bus.
That's probably just like a sight that you would just never get out of your head.
I can only imagine, Like it's gruesome. Yeah, so Vince wants at the front of the bus, drops the head and tries to get out the door again, but the door's closed. They can't do it. He tries. He tried to open the door via the mechanisms and the drivers there. Some say he's tried to start the bus, but he could whatever he was trying to do, he couldn't because a bus driver actually did disable things in the bus so nothing could happen. He was stuck in them.
Imagine if he just like took off, Holy Molly, right, And I wonder also if Greyhound, like it's so surprising that this knife was even allowed on the bus, but I don't think they really checked. Maybe they do now, but from my experiences, like, I don't really know if they checked bags.
The only time I've ever been on a Greyhound bus was like with a group of individuals for like a sports team, so I know most of the people on the bus sort of thing. Yeah, I've never traveled via Greyhound where it's like, you know, you pay your ticket, you go on with a bunch of strangers. I'm not sure how it works.
Well, my grammy use and I don't think they ever checked. It's nothing like the airlines. But I mean that could totally change. I have no idea.
If it changed, it probably changed from this incident. So after he couldn't escape the bus for the second attempt, he went back to Tim and began dismembering and mutilating his body further. Oh no, now, the reason, Vince later said the reason why he did this was because the voice in his head told him that if he didn't, Tim's body would come alive again and kill him. Oh wow, So that is why he went back and continued to
mutilate the body. Okay, so at about this time, the RCMP, the police have arrived on the scene and they actually barricade the door shut with a squad car right there, so they get a perimeter set up like it's he's in a bus surrounded by cops.
There is no way really anyone else is getting hurt, yes, unless it's him, I guess.
So now we have we have a scene under control by police force. Now, so you kind of had a spot where you're like, I don't know if they should have locked him in there. I mean, that's that's civilians. You can't really judge there in the moment call. This is where the first the first incident of like I don't know if they should have done it this way, the first controversy happens because what happens is they actually lock him in the bus and they decide that they're
going to wait this out. They don't go in there try and apprehend them or anything. They decided they're going to wait this out.
I wonder why, though.
I'm not too sure. I couldn't find anything on that, but they decided they're going to wait it out, I mean, other than continue to mutilate Tim, which is horrific in its own right. Don't get me wrong.
He is already dead.
The only other individual he can harm is himself at this point.
I guess.
So what they did try to do Corporal Harder being one of the officers on the scene, he tried to communicate with Vince and tried to get him to like drop the knife out the window, try and get the rid of the That's what they're trying to do. It's they could they're considering this like a hosted situation of Vince himself, like he has himself hostage.
They would totally have eyes on him too, though, you think that they could have shocked him or something.
That's where the controversy is. It's like, okay, should they have done something with further force, But then.
Like you said, no more damage is really going to happen, is either way?
Whatever the call was, why they made the call. The call was that they're going to wait this out so he wouldn't drop the knife out the window. Vince was actually he muttered something about like I'm staying on this bus or I must stay on this bus forever. So clearly, like over these events, the RCMP are very aware that there is something wrong with this individual. So over the next almost five hours, five hours, Vince was locked on the bus with Tim's box.
Okay, I had absolutely no idea it was that long.
Yep.
Okay, that's so surprising that it's been that long and they're just waiting it out.
Yeah. Well, because the stabbing approximately started at eight thirty pm, right, I'm going to get into this a little in just a moment here. But Vince Truck eventually gets apprehended at about one thirty one twenty am, So it's almost five hours from the initial stabbing to apprehension.
Okay. I just had to count that out because I felt like his last.
Time definitely not. I counted it out about four or fall times, just to be sure.
I was counting on my fingers.
So over the course of these five hours, Vince continued to mutilate Tim's body. Oh man, he would scatter parts throughout the bus. He would carry things pieces of Tim all over the place. Holy shit, not only pieces, but like including internal organs. Like he would oh, that's too much, and then he would go back and recollect them and start bagging them and things. He was also seen cannibalizing Tim's body, eating pieces, cutting off and eating pieces of Tim's flesh.
See, at that point, that's too much, that's too much.
The RCNP even witnessed Vince licking the blood from his fingers.
Yummy.
So eventually, at one twenty am July thirty first, the next day, after five hours of this, because it is one thirty m y, Vince did try to escape through a window and was quickly apprehended. Like he's not getting away, right, He's surrounded how many officers at this point? So he was apprehended and in his pocket they found a bag with Tim's ear nose and part of his mouth in it.
Oh no, I.
Feel so bad, like family, right, family, everything about this? Like he was so mutilated. It is so unfortunate.
Oh yeah, because just imagine like the family getting all these pieces back and like a lot of them are probably just smushed in the bus or something like.
Oh so excluding like the pieces everywhere Tim's body showed excess of a hundred stabs, slashes, and gaping wounds.
Can even just this popped in my head. Imagine like the trauma that the autopsy person had to go through. Yeah, of that, that's brutal to have to look at that.
Now with his head. His eyes were actually missing. One third of his heart was missing. Oh okay, and both of these are presumed to have been eaten by Vince. They were never found. Wow, never found. His eyes and one third of his heart were never found.
I don't know if that'd be the pieces of the body I'd go for.
Later in later on, when Vince was a little more cognitive of his thoughts and what he was doing. He denied ever eating anything of tim but they saw it. They saw him eating peach.
Probably just doesn't even like he was almost like probably blacked out or something in his mind.
Potentially going on potentially, But it's I I remember this being on the news, and I do not remember it being this grousome on the news.
Oh, it would never have been able.
To I know, I know, but like even I don't remember reports of even cannibalism happening. Yeah, and I couldn't it researching this like it it churned my stomach. I can only imagine being one of the passengers who witnessed this, one of the RCMP officers on scene, like you say, one of the autopsy individuals.
The parents. I just think because you want to know how my son died or whatever. I just couldn't even imagine hearing this, right, I think that I would just be the most angry of people in the whole world. It gets worse, Okay, I didn't excer that.
As far as the mutilation of Tim goes. We know everything, but the controversy, the controversy. Do you hear that? The Sean Connery and me just came out. The controversy, controversy, the controvers.
It's kind of like the Grinch, You're a mean one.
Thank you. I'm I'm going to assume that's a compliment. Shout out to Jim Carrey. A right, Jim Carrey sponsor US. I don't know how or what or why, but Jim Carrey, we like you. So the controversy is just beginning. So Vince shortly after after being apprehended, realized that he was going to be going to trial, right like he's he's going to court, clearly, but he realized he's not going to be getting the death penalty. That the death penalty isn't a thing in Canada.
Yeah. I was like, is that a thing? Even then?
No? No, And he learned this and all he had to say about that. He never really said anything in court. The only thing he ever really did say was please kill me.
Oh, he wanted that.
He wanted the death penalty.
Can I ask a side note question, is he married still?
Do we know, like to this day.
Well, no, at the time of like when he was doing this murder.
At the time, he was married as far as I'm aware, because what had happened is his wife is in Winnipeg. He's in Edmonton, and the plan was that she would move over to Edmonton with him when he has a job and he's doing better. But he was looking for a job now back in Winnipeg. So I assume they were together. I doubt they're together now, Oh, I would doubt it, But I assume at the time they were
still married. Okay, they were separated. Not I don't think because of marital issues, but they were separated because he's trying to find better prospects of money and jobs.
Yeah, that's stressful.
So he anyways, he kept saying like please kill me. His trial only took two days and it only heard from two individuals on the stand, two psychologists who basically said, like, this dude is has like a plethora of mental issues. So on March fifth, two thousand and nine, this is where the controversy starts. His trial ended and he was found to be not criminally responsible due to mental illness and his untreated schizophrenia. I'm going to repeat that, not
criminally responsible due to mental illness and untreated schizophrenia. So he is going to see no jates jail time, and is going to have no criminal record.
Key, but is he going to he's going to be going to like a hospital for life or whatever.
Yes, he was placed in a mental mental facility for sure.
Because I feel like that actually happens a lot. Well, but then I didn't, I didn't actually realize these people don't have a criminal record.
Then though, Yeah, that's he has zero criminal record.
That's crazy, Yeah, like crazy.
And like Tim's family like furious. There was like they tried to get a lot of like federal law changed so this can't happen again, Like they were, they were trying to do everything they could to have this situation fixed. Because this is as far as a lot of people think bullshit. And I'm going to say, I really don't know how to say this kindly, but I think it is too. I understand he went through a lot of shit. He had a lot going on in his head.
Yeah, and mental and this is serious, It is very serious. But if he's had to be in a hospital for life, that makes sense.
He literally butchered a dude for five hours.
Yeah. Oh, it needs to be on his record for sure. He needs to have some sort of record.
Yeah. So anyways, he went to a mental facility and you know, of course he's he's locked up in this mental facility. He doesn't get access to the outside world or anything. Yeah, they got him on medication. He was doing great, and he became what they referred to as a model patient. So he was initially put in shortly after his trial, right like immediately after, which was concluded
in March two thousand and nine. And in February of twenty fourteen, the Criminal Code Review Board granted unescorted trips to a nearby city.
See, like, he escort means he's going by himself.
By himself for thirty.
Minutes, Okay, and this is eight years eight years after.
The incident, well, two thousand and nine to twenty fourteen, so that's what five years.
Oh, and he's unescorted trips.
Away unescorted trips to the nearby city. Okay, yes, there were some stipulations for thirty minutes at a time. He had to be on his medication, and he had to have a cell phone so he could be reached and communicated with and found that sort of stuff. So it started at thirty minutes at a time, that's.
Not actually very safe measures.
But keep going and began increasing over time, so thirty minutes, then to an hour, then to a couple hours, then to full days, because.
Like I could easily run away and just ditch myself.
Right, and what if he what if he what if the medication isn't actually working he's just pretending, or what if he does forget his medication. I must I'm assuming that they're gonna make sure he's taking his medication before these trips. That it's not just like, oh, yeah, make sure you take your meds, you know, have a good day, like they're they're witnessing him taking his medication that sort
of thing. Or but what if he takes his medication, gets off and then just throws it up in the nearby bush or.
Something, Yeah, you could still leave and then you don't have your meds and then something could happen.
So that there are arguments for both sides here, and like I said, I'm gonna try and stay neutral. So he's on his medication, which he's been model citizen or model patient for the last five years, on his medication, no episode sort of thing. So they're granting him these day passes. However, these day passes eventually get into he can live in a specific community to now where in February of twenty seventeen, he was granted quote unquote on absolute discharge. He is living free under the new name
will Lee Baker. No criminal record, no jail time, Oh goodness, living a free person.
Okay, So I just have to say something like I actually feel for him, because like having a mental illness like that is it's that would be awful.
It is.
But then the thing is he obviously because I know there's I bet there's different stages or whatever, right, and he has it fairly bad.
Hm. Well, schizophrenia is different for every day actually.
Like it affects people differently, I'm assuming, and I would imagine his is very bad.
For him to be for something like that, it's got to be sicker.
And so it's like I feel you hear people forgetting or not wanting to take their drugs, and then what happens is something like that happened again?
Or what if he just loses his medication. What if he's out camping, for example, with friends or.
Something who don't know what he is start again right away and.
Then he slaughters his friends in a tent like That's that's where this controversy lays. He's a free individual. He could stop taking his medication for whatever reason. I'm sure there are going to be I couldn't find it because there's very little to be found after that absolutely discharge grant. But I'm sure there are some measures they're taking because I know he has like a court appearance every year where they talk like they update things.
That's not even ten years.
Right, But he literally got away with murder. He got away with murder, and there's very little that happened about it. There is no nothing towards his family, like the closure for them. Their son was butchered over the course of five hours, cannibalized by an individual who just changed their name and is walking free.
You have to imagine that something would have to be on the record then, because there's probably certain jobs that they can't do with the mental illness like that.
As far as I can find, he has no criminal record, and it's specific says an absolute discharge means you have no criminal record.
Holy moly, because I just feel like, I mean, what if you're like working with children or something.
I don't know, background check won't show anything. He has no criminal record. If you unless you google his name, I'm sure he has no criminal record and you can find nothing about it.
I feel like now, anytime I ever have to hire someone, I'm doing a thorough Google search.
Rightfully, So honestly, now there's a little bit of another piece to this story. Unfortunately, on July, in July of twenty fourteen, so about the time where he began his criminal discharge, like just shortly before that. Oh sorry, his his, Wow, I'm all over the place, my notes. You're trying to say this part?
You got this.
I'm gonna try. On July twenty fourteen, shortly before Vince was grand his first thirty minute unescorted trip, his first you know, unescorted discharge from his facility. Yeah. It retired RCMP corporal committed suicide due to the PTSD over the course of his career and mainly due to the PTSD from this specific event.
Oh no, so it's claimed another.
Life, claimed another life. He tried to commit suicide prior to and was thankfully stopped, but unfortunately the second time he was successful and did manage to take his own.
Life because just the visuals say yes.
And his wife said that that he did not want to be known as the greyhound guy, that he like the police officer car because he was. He was known to his friends. You know, he was one of the officers on the scene, so he was you know, he's a greyhound guy. He was there, he saw it. Well, you're the guy, You're one of the guys there, right.
Oh no, he did not want that stigma attached to him and the PTSD from what he saw and experience that night, along with the rest of his career, it's not solely on this incident, but along with the rest of his career, and mostly because of this night, he took his own life.
That's really sad, because it's not those people probably weren't even intending for to put a title on him like that, right, but it happened, and oh gosh, that's sad. That's so sad.
Yeah, so, like you say, it took not only Tim McLean's life, but another one as well.
Yeah, and how did you say twenty fourteen is when it took when he took his own life.
Yes, he did. And I don't have it written down here. I'm looking at my computer right now. I thought I wrote it down, but I didn't. I even look up his name right now, just so we can make sure that we get him in this, and we can, you know, make sure.
He brought me to Google.
No, I got it, I got it. I just if you talk for a minute.
Okay, Well, what the heck am I supposed to say? Oh? Man? I mean okay, I knew a little bit about this case from just hearing it on the news and such, but I did not know to the detail and extent of what happened on the bus. And oh I I just yeah, I have I have no words. I have no words. Maybe we should just have a moment of silence while you're doing this.
Okay, So it is retired RCMP Corporal Ken Baker, who unfortunately took his own life.
Ken Baker. Do you know how old he is?
I'm sure it's there in the article, which I'll put it down the links below, so you can take a look for yourself and give it a nd. However, his life aside, I mean, that's that's so bad to say it. That's not what I mean. His life aside, his case, aside, Tim's case aside. Vince has said, like he's extremely remorseful for what happened, and he said he will never forgive himself for what he did. However that that doesn't change, like he's walking free.
Well, he still has the mental illness he does, it's in check. It's very easy for it to potentially be un checked though.
It is or has a potential to be. Like it's it's very controversial for us. A lot of people are saying, like, you know, this is a dangerous individual who's walking around free. And then of course mental health advocates and every right, so like he was.
Sick because he went and got the help he needed, or he well he didn't go and get it. He was forced it really because of what he did, and now he does potentially need to be living a life yeah, but gosh, yeah, there's two sides to this, but there has to be a middle, and there should probably just be something on his record really well.
The middle that we have is what happened. However, that's my main thing is that I understand he had no jail time. I get that because he went and he got help at a mental facility.
Yeah, I agree with that. That's fine.
Him not having a Okay, him living free now I can even I'm not solely with it, but I can kind of understand. The part that I don't get is he does not have a criminal record, because him living free if he had a criminal record would make more sense to me. Him living free without any criminal record does not make sense.
Well, And I think I was thinking he would be in that the is that what they're called mental institutions, Like.
I'm facility, it's a mental mental facility, is what I've been saying.
Not totally certain, but I wasn't thinking that he would be in there for like life.
Yeah, that's what I would assume as well.
But he is because if a murder was like that done, they would go to prison for life. Yeah, I mean, no mental illness aside or whatever.
Right, But he's not criminally responsible. That's what they they found in court. So why should he have to pay the crime? Though, according to the law to pay But according to the law. Legally, he is not responsible for it, So why does he need to pay according to the law?
I guess, but I feel like someone died and like someone needs to pay for that. That was a brutal murder.
It it hurt to research this one, that that five hours and a bus.
Just five hours, Yeah, I honestly, I mean the news, the news probably didn't even maybe they didn't know the story to the extent, but I would have thought that it would have been like half an hour, maybe an hour, right, But just to learn that it was five hours blows my mind.
So we're going to have trouble finding cases. Well, I'm sure we're not going to have trouble, but second episode and we have a gruesome case like this, so I'm sure we've got more to come. I might not go so gruesome on my next episode. I don't know. I've got a couple ones that I might pull from. I've got ideas. I got to figure out which one.
You need a break from the gruesome.
Maybe, although they're all going to be gruesome, just this is extremely gruesome and contraver. I want an incident where I can yell at the dude for being a dick and not have an excuse or feel bad.
I know, because yeah, you feel like you have to watch what you say slightly, because I mean, yeah, that totally mentalness is.
A thing, and he is, Yeah, and there's every right to consider that.
But then this other person died very horrifically and that's awful.
Yeah.
So, I don't know.
If you guys have opinions, hit us up on Instagram. We'd love to hear what you have to say. Yeah, so, I'm going to throw you to the wolves here, Nicole. Next episode is going to be your episode.
It's all me, and I'm giving no hints.
No hints, no hints nothing. I've been so nice to you over the course of like the three weeks you've been leading up starting this podcast, letting you know the stuff I'm doing.
No.
Wow, you've been like milking information from me left, right and center. And I've been so nice and now you're dropping this brutal.
You're just gonna have to wait and hear it.
All right, Well, I guess I'll have to wait and hear it, and you guys can hear Nicole run her first episode.
I'm so nervous.
It's gonna be good.
Though it's gonna be fun.
Okay. So I guess we'll see you guys in the next episode. So cheers episode two and you started in episode three.
Do you remember what were so to say at the end of our podcast?
And you say stay wicked?
Yeah, okay, so stay wicked.
Boom