Life can be a slippery slope sometimes, and today's part two coverage of Fred and Rose west Story is one of those where every time something happens, you think that things couldn't possibly get any worse, but somehow they do. Be sure to hit up part one before moving forward with listening to this episode.
I'm Nicole, I'm Ben, and this.
Is Wicked and Grim, a true grum podcast.
Morning Post.
Listeners just question that much.
Okay, we better start apologizing right now because I hit record.
I'm sorry, You're sorry for what? You know what I was get so much flack. I'm pretty sure though, you were the last one to do a part two. I we're back with a part two. You know we made you wait. The time is here. You don't have to wait any longer. You made it. We all did it.
We did it. It's worth it. Sometimes the suspense builds, you know, Yeah, I think this day and age, we're all too accustomed to just having seasons of shows dropped on TV and we watched it all at once. Mm hmm, so that suspense building is good once in a while.
Well, I must say, hopefully I can find this now I discovered and okay, I love this when I discovered shit and like, share something with you because it so happens just never.
It so happens just ever.
It's just a rarity.
Gotcha, Well, what do you have to share with me?
You just so, I had found out that Spotify does like Q and a's or something on specific like you can put a question and out on a specific episode of a podcast yep, And so they had just randomly like did some for us, and it was I think it was like, what did you think about this episode? Right? Anyway, someone did say that they said loved it and multipart
multiple part cases. I agree that our society doesn't wait for things anymore, and I can be guilty of that too, but I definitely like the two part cases because it does make me more excited for the next episode.
Hell, yes, who said that?
This was Samantha Ray Taylor.
Samantha, you hit the nail on the head.
So there, you know what. I'm just like making you guys live your best life.
Yes, patience is a virtue. It's a muscle. We don't flex very often. We're going to make you do it once in a while. Here, We're sorry, but we're also not At.
The same time, and also thank you for people who notice our Q and A before we did.
No kidding, and thank you for bringing it forward to me, because I'm someone who prides myself on my social media knowledge and I had no fucking clue about this. I did not know that Spotify had this integrated into their system whatsoever.
So my mind is, well, I found it so randomly too, because I always go to the last episode to see who we thanked for our patreons. Yep, our patrons. I always I get that backwards, our patrons, and I was like, what is this is? Why is it asking me a question? I could have responded if I wanted, And then yeah, I looked into it was really cool.
Yeah, So if you guys want to go answer some comments on Patreon, we're going to be putting that up more often.
Yeah, different questions.
Just so you guys do know. Though. We have had a couple people comment requests on Spotify. Feel free to do that. We're just not going to make those with public. We'll just take those put them into our book so we are seeing them, we are hearing them. Feel free to do it. It's just not going to be made part on Spotify, if that.
Makes sense, yeah, okay absolutely.
Speaking of which, because we just talked about people being awesome and discovering things.
Well, be new patrons.
We have people who discovered our patreon this week. We do, we do. We have Kelly Crinnan, Eric Brethauer, and Prissy Velasquez.
Awesome, thank you so much.
So, thank you so much. We got the month end coming up, so they're going to get a exclusive episode over there.
Holy heck, when is the month end?
Isn't it like the twenty fifth today or twenty seventh? There we go?
Holy shit, I forgot about that. Are you on that?
I'm on it. Don't worry, I've got a cool episode coming up.
Oh my gosh, I've just been living under a Fred and Rose west Rock.
That does not sound like a very nice place.
No, it actually has been hell on earth. These people are something else. And if you thought last week's episode was rough, this one is so rough.
Can you give us a quick rundown on how last episode did play out?
Yes, so I did a little intro. But if you're listening to this, this is a part two episode, so you need to go back to the following episode and listen to that one first or else. None of this will make any.
Sense fair enough.
So we left off last episode with Rose pregnant and the family moving into their forever home. It was twenty five Cremwell Street. We talked about both Fred and Rose, how they experienced sexual abuse within their households growing up, which is very unfortunate, and how pregnant Anne McFall, Charmaine and Rena had already fallen victim to this notorious couple.
So then the family was living on the ground floor of their new home and renting out the other bedrooms, and after Rose gave birth to their second daughter, May June, Rose found another way to make some additional money. And that was where I was apparently an asshole and stopped the episode. So does that all ring a bell?
Yes?
Okay, So this is where we're starting, Okay. So she had a room upstairs that was called Rose's Room. She was the only one with the key to this room, and within said room she would conduct her sex work to both men and women with encouragement from Fred. Outside was a red light that would be turned on when no one in the household was to disturb Rose and whoever she had in that room with her. Now, something I didn't even put in here, and we just do that so often we don't have an inner notes. But
then just little things remind us of stuff. There were also allegedly holes in this in the wall I guess of this room. Oh no, that Fred could look in Okay, I.
Mean not that that's great, but that's not what I was I was thinking worse. I was thinking of glory.
Well you went that, Okay.
I assumed you were talking gloryholes.
No, it was people, peoples? Is that?
Yeah? People?
Okay? I was like, all of a sudden, that sounded it's sexually gross, but I don't think it is.
Well, I mean, the intent is is there still?
But no one is ever going to be able to say the word people without thinking about Fred and Rose Westna.
The word peep is not inherently dirty. People are just going to look at those little like marshmallow peeps on Easter coming up?
All great?
Those are disgusting.
I actually don't even know if I've had one.
You haven't had a peep? No, okay, we're going to be trying peeps.
You just said they were absolutely disgusting. What on earth do I want to try one?
Because you have to know how disgusting they are.
Like, it doesn't just isn't it just a marshmallow?
Yeah, a shitty ass marshmallow. Okay, It's like if Lucky Charms was super old and super squishy. Oh gross, that's what a peep is.
Okay. So her work with her male clients seemed to go well without a hitch, but Rose's female clients had a different story to tell. They said that Rose always took things further, and when Fred joined them, he didn't do anything to hold her back. Instead, both of them seemed to enjoy taking things further than the women were comfortable going, and their sexual activities always seemed to be based around dominating their partners. They're into dominating.
Gotcha that whole I don't know. I kind of mentioned it last on that alpha mentality sort of thing. Yeah.
Yeah. So by nineteen seventy seven, Rose's father was back into their lives, but when he found out that Rose was a sex worker, the response wasn't a good one. Apparently, instead of trying to help his daughter, her own father allegedly started buying her services too. Oh, which, honestly, I don't know. I have like a lot of trouble believing that. But it wasn't like numerous reports. Oh but remember he did sexually abuse her as a child. Yeah, so I don't know, it's really disturbing.
That. I mean, not that. Oh that's just like the sexual abuse. Don't get me wrong, that's horrible. But for some reason, the purchasing of it makes it seem almost worse because I can guarantee you she's not willing. Still, It's almost like she has to pretend she's willing in this case, which makes it feel worse. You know.
Yeah, well she would still like she's still all throughout this whole story. Really, she's still very young, right yeah.
Yeah, Oh that's a whole yeah basket. I don't want to unpack.
Wow, alay, just carry on here, please do. By nineteen eighty three, Rose had given birth to eight children. At least three of those were from her clients. They were not all Fred's kids. Fred treated them like they were his own, and even covered their tracks by telling them that they look differently to their other siblings because Fred's great grandmother had been a woman of color.
Okay, so I mean, I mean that in itself is a nice thing to ensure that people don't feel different, And it's like no, we're still family regardless, right, That, just regardless of who it's coming from, is a nice sentiment. I guess.
I don't know. I can't think anything out of that guy's mouth is nice, But I guess.
I like to play Devil's advocate.
You know, he's at least making everyone feel like they're part of something. Oh, I don't know anyway, Good God, this whole episode's going to just be like, yeah, just bad. Okay. So that didn't mean that he treated any of the children well. When each of them turned seven, they were given a long list of chores that they had to do every day. They weren't allowed to spend time with friends outside of the house unless either Fred or Rose went with them, and if they broke any of these
many rules, they'd get punished. Rose eventually dished out the punishments, and they often always included some level of physical abuse. Cool not, This episode's really rough.
I feel I should probably.
Have actually done maybe an extra what are those called the beginning disclosure or disclaimer.
A disclosure signing, a non disclosure agreement for this episode, can't talk about it?
Oh my gosh. Well, honestly, maybe that's needed, but potentially so Rose made a point of not hurting the children anywhere that would be visible, making the abuse harder to notice and harder to track. Anytime they received any injury that had to be treated at the hospital, Rose would tell the staff that they'd gotten into an accident at home, and no incident reports were ever filled out or reporter reported to social services, which is very unfortunate. Yeah, I
don't know. I feel like some lots of times people just think people are good. I don't think I think back in the day, like in the seventies, nowadays people might question that more. I feel like in the hospital maybe because we know like how bad things can be.
Well, I mean there is that too, but also back then kids were outside riding bikes for h their trees, and.
They had way more like freedom actually kind of yeah.
And also the physical discipline from a parent, like you know, get.
Your asked, whooping you know, right, you actually could, yeah, you actually got spankings kind of thing exactly.
So there was that line was a little more blurred then.
Yeah, I know, I was like always off on my own doing god knows what. Yeah, same, and that's nothing like ill about my parents at all. But it's just like I don't know, I think nowadays, like I guess people are more bad things happen. We're more aware and stuff and so yeah.
Well I know like for myself, Like as a kid, I would be riding up and down the dirt road in front of my house, like half a klometer away. My friend and I would ride our bikes towards each other with sticks if we would stick our sticks in our bike spokes trying to knock the other person off the bike. Like we had joust with sticks on our bikes. Yeah, good times. Slings a lot about me. Actually now they look back on it, doesn't it a little bit?
Actually even with wildlife, I just remember too, like we kind of lived somewhere where there was a hill right behind us and like a lot of bears in the area, yea, And there'd be bears in our yard all the time, and like there'd be one in there and then it's gone, and I'd be like and my Mom's like, oh, there's a bear there, And I'm like, well, I'll just like be still outside, but I'll stick close to the deck.
Like it wasn't a big deal that a bear five fucking minutes ago was just in the yard like I'm still going outside.
Yep.
Anyway, what do you always say? I digress, we digress.
I digress, we digress. Yeah.
Okay, So apparently not even Fred was safe from Rose's physical punishments. In nineteen seventy four, he found himself the wrong end of a knife as Rose chased him around the house. He managed to himself behind a door and closed it, but Rose still went for him. The knife ended up sticking into the door, and Rose actually slid her hand down it, almost slicing three of her very own fingers off. Ooh ouch Rose, you yeah you felt that? Eh? Oh?
I did.
Rose allegedly grabbed a cloth to stop the bleeding and very calmly said to Fred, look what you've done, fella. You got to take me to the hospital. Now.
Wow.
I mean maybe it wasn't quite that that level. It might have been yelling, but who knows.
Look what you've done, Pella. Now you got to take me to the hospital. Tisk tisk.
So now to step back a bit and explain a little bit more about what was going on within the house, oh boy. In nineteen seventy two, when Anna Marie was only eight years old, she was sent to the basement of the family home and ordered to remove her clothes. Friend and Rose then tied her to a mattress, gagged her, and Fred went about raping her.
How old was she? Sorry?
Eight?
Holy fuck?
When he was done, Rose followed Anna Marie to the bathroom, laughing at her and saying, I'm sorry. Everyone does it to every girl. It's a father's job.
That makes me sick to my fucking stomach.
Yeah, yep. And remember that did happen to Rose, right, Not that I'm like justifying any of this, because I do feel like at that point she would know that's wrong. Even though that happened to her as a girl, I think she would know that what was wrong.
I was sure, hope so so.
But yeah, like we said and last episode, the abuse is just carrying on to another generation. Wow, it wasn't just Fred. Rose took part in the abuse too, often making Annie Marie do housework with toys inserted inside her or trying or tying her to things, and urging Fred to rape her. When Anna Marie turned thirteen, they forced her to also be a sex worker within the house, lying to the clients about her real age.
Wow. Yeah, what the fuck?
And I left out some pretty brutal things too, like it worse. Yeah, yeah, Like honestly, reading about some of this case, it's just like there was just like a nod in my fringing throat the whole time, Like it's unbelievable what these kids had to go through.
Holy shit.
Wow.
All right, yeah, and we're just getting started in this episode. Basically, okayeah, okay, I don't know how well I'm gonna do for the remainder of it.
Oh yeah, you're gonna just hate them, like these people are disgusting.
Sounds that way.
So later that year, they hired a seventeen year old nanny named Caroline Owens. Caroline noticed that Anna Marie seemed withdrawn and depressed, but she had no idea what was going on behind closed doors. She may have been able to put two and two together when Fred went about forcing himself on her. However, she was able to flee the home. According to Fred, both he and Rose knew that Caroline often hitchhiked on a Pacific part of a motorway,
and one day they went out looking for her. So she did manage to get away, but now they're searching for her. He said that the whole point of going out and looking for her was actually to see if Rose would kidnap someone with him. When they found her, they told her that they were very sorry for everything that happened back at their house, and they offered her a lift. She took it, didn't she She unfortunately agreed. Oh. She was then taken back to their house, bound, gagged,
and assaulted by both Fred and Roe. She only managed to get away with her life because she led them to believe that she wanted to work as their nanny again, and she escaped later from a trip to the local laundry.
Maat, I'm glad she escaped.
Yes, so she basically like that's pretty smart. Oh yeah, because she had just probably experiment experienced one of the most traumatic events of her life. And then she went about waking up or the next day just being like I'm gonna be your nanny, like playing with the kids, cleaning the house. And then the first opportunity she got, like she still made sure she was like thinking all her actions through and she just fled.
Yeah, piece the fuck out. Good for her for thinking that through and actually bringing it to fruition totally, because it's easy to panic in a situation like that. So keeping your calm oh yeah, thinking out your steps methodically, that takes a lot, I.
Would agree, yes. So she only managed to get away with her life because she led them to believe that she wants Oh holy shit, I'm just reading the same line again.
Yeah, you are where to go?
Aha, Sorry, smooth. So she reported the assault to the police, but it all proved too much as the court date drew nearer. Not wanting to face either of her assailants again, Caroline dropped the charges and the West were charged with indecent assault and bodily harm. Instead, they received a fifty pound fine and were released. Oh fuck, which is so shitty.
It's so I mean, she's definitely not to blame.
Oh no, I know. I'm just like, if at this point, if they would just have gone like behind bars, that would be amazing. I'm not blaming her for anything.
No, I'm just clarifying it's not her fault. But it's it's so Jesus. Okay, just punched the microphone pretty much.
Wow, this case rolls me up. Okay.
I was like, it's just we see so many cases, so many situations, so many instance an incident, instance, instances, holy fuck. Where individuals get so intimidated and bullied by these fucking perpetrators that they don't they just want it done and over with. They don't want to deal with them anymore, they don't want to see them, hear their fucking name. So it's just all this power that these fucking assholes hold even after the fact, just pisses me off.
Well, she probably had already spent so much time on healing or trying to heal, right, oh yeah, and then going back and having to face them, I'm sure would just it would kind of like, I don't digress you a little bit.
Yeah, I'm sure it would.
Only three months later, the couple would commit their first quotation known murder, nineteen year old Linda Golf. They were familiar with Linda through one of their lodgers. She would move into the home to take of their children, but she eventually would go missing, with Fred and Rose telling the other tenants that she had been fired because she
hit one of the children. In nineteen seventy three, a fifteen year old named Carol Ann Cooper went missing after a trip to the cinema with her boyfriend, and over the next year and a half, four more girls would go missing, all of them ending up at the wests.
Oh shit.
So first one Lucy Catherine Partington. She was twenty one years twenty one years old, sorry, and lasting at a bus stop in Cheltenham. There's strong evidence that Lucy actually may have been kept alive for several days. A week after disappearing, Fred went to the hospital to get a cut stitched up. It's believed that he got this injury while dismembering Lucy's b because apparently well at the end here they found a knife that matched the injury, the
injury with her body. So yeah, okay, Teresa, and I'm so sorry, I'm going to be butchering your last name here, see seakin Teller. She's also twenty one and was abducted while hitch hiking. So I should just know, like a lot of the people that they did target, like it was through hitch hiking or through them staying lodging at their house, and they kind of targeted people that may not have been reported as missing right away, right, so more like vulnerable women.
Yeah, almost like wayward individuals kind of thing, people who are I don't even know if wayward is right word for it, but people who are I don't know they will be missed right away.
Yes, yeah, they just might not. It might not have been noticed because maybe they're all like often traveling around or something.
Free spirited individuals. That's a way better way of putting it. Free spirited people who are going to be traveling around their friend's family, don't know where they are at all times, that sort of thing, right.
Yeah. So Shirley Hubbard, she was age fifteen when abducted from a bus stop. When her remains were found, apparently her head was completely covered in tape, with only a rubber tube inserted in her nose to allow her to breathe.
Oh fuck, could you imagine?
Yeah? Wow, Like, just the torture that they were doing to these poor individuals is It's horrible. It's horrible that there's people out there like this. It is disgusting.
One of the worst thing that popped into my mind about that. So I'm going on a little bit of a comedic part here. I'm just thinking, I always have like one nostril that's clear and one that's not, and it's switches like every fucking hour, I swear to.
God, good God. Okay, it's like.
A normal thing. Feel your nostrils right now, No, just cover up a nostril and breathe through one. One's going to be more clear than the other. I guarantee it, I guess. So what if what if you put the tube in the one that wasn't okay?
Tubes in both? I don't necessarily know for sure, but.
Could you imagine though, Like if you just had a tube in one nostril, well I breathe that.
I honestly couldn't imagine being in that situation, like because I'm actually like a more of a mouth breather, which people think is weird.
I think you're a mouth breather. That's a negative thing. It's not a negative thing.
I literally breathe through my mouth more anyway, but it's negative contentations from name calling and so on and so forth. That would just be horrible, Like you're in that much fear and then you can't breathe properly, like I just, I honestly can't even imagine.
I know, I can now imagine only having the one nostril that you can't breathe out of them, and that's it.
Yeah, you're probably just done.
Yeah, and that's fucking terrifying.
Yeah, okay, so one Neita Mott. She was eighteen years old and a former lodger of twenty five Cromwell Street. Right after this, in nineteen seventy five, Fred put new concrete down in the cellar of their home and things seemed to calm down for a little while. Fred turned the basement into a bedroom for his older children and that was that. But then in nineteen seventy eight, surely Robinson, a lodger, would go missing. And I'm just gonna say
those three years they were still doing shit. In my opinion, there's no way that they've just had.
A three year break crumb.
I mean sometimes I guess, actually serial killers do have breaks for certain reasons.
But well, I mean, maybe they were just busy with renovations.
I mean that the renovations, though.
As casual as that sounds, it's very.
Possible they cover up the bodies.
Yeah, I know, I'm assuming that's the case.
Oh okay, they had so many bodies. They're like, we have a lot of renovations to do.
Well, yeah, maybe they are, because renovations take time. They take time, they take yeah, right, and slowly working on this sort of thing. It doesn't sound like they're the individuals who are going to be working all too hard in my opinion, so it's probably going to be an extended.
Project late at Stereotype. I mean, I'm just saying, Okay, So Shirley Robinson. Shirley developed relationships with both Fred and Rose, and at the time of her disappearance, she was actually pregnant with Fred's child. No, I mean this guy like there's I he impregnated a lot of people because he was He's kind of like a cheater as well. So at the same time, Rose was also pregnant and apparently it was not with Fred's child as well. Foolishly, Shirley
thought she could displace displaced. Is that how you say that Rose and become Fred's new wife.
Yeah, displace Yeah, okay, but.
She went missing.
But she went missing.
In nineteen seventy nine, Fred and Rose took in a seventeen year old girl name Alison Chambers. She'd come to work for the West once again as there live in nanny when she herself would also go missing. The children at the West Household were growing up amongst all of this chaos and abuse. By nineteen seventy nine, Anna Marie
had run away from another vicious beating from Rose. She was pregnant at the time, and I think pregnant like with Fred's baby, thankfully, I think what had happened is the it was like the baby was growing in her filopian tube or something. So it did have to be terminated. But maybe that is a good thing, right, that baby was her dad from her dad.
I mean, that's yeah, that's a very.
That's a touchy subject. It's very touchy. Yeah, but maybe it just wasn't meant to be, right.
Yeah. I don't want to say any sort of pregnancy termination is a good thing. I don't want to say that an individual should or should not terminate, but I mean, yeah, given the father and the situation, yeah, yeah, that's weird.
So natural causes pretty much kind of happened in that one. And yeah, so in this time, it was clear that she had no intentions of coming back to Fred and Rose. With her out of the house, Fred shifted his attention to Heather and May, who were both on the cups cusp of puberty. They'd already experienced sexual abuse at the hands of their father, but with Anna Marie gone and the both of them now teenagers, things escalated very quickly
after and sometimes during the abuse. Fred would explain his actions by saying things like I made you, I can do what I want with you.
Oh, he's one of those Hey, I brought you into this world, I can take you out. Fuck off.
He even stated several times that he planned on fathering children with both Heather and May, at least once.
At least once. Yeah, Holy, this.
Just fucking disgusting. Holy shit, it's too much. I'm going to move forward all just.
Kid, you please do, please do.
The abuse was not just something that his daughters had to endure. Fred didn't sexually abuse his sons, but his first son, Stephen, was told that he would have to have sex with Rose by the time he was seventeen or face the consequences. Though from what I could find, that seemed to have just been a threat. I don't think that actually happened. I think it was a threat.
Wow.
Heather, May and Stephen were all around the same age, and when when the abuse and the threat of abuse in the household ramped up, they did try to stick together, which, good God, that's just so sad.
I can't imagine living in a house like that, I.
Know, because like you're a kid, like you don't have anywhere else to go, You don't, you literally don't.
And there they probably don't know any better either, especially the way they're teaching him, like this is what a father does. Yeah, you just you think that this abuse is normal. Everyone's going through this, and oh my, I'm overwhelmed with how these kids would fucking feel.
Yeah, and that just actually made me think back, Like something I hadn't even read was Rose Till Like Anna Marie was like, yeah, you're lucky that, like you're being taught this and you're going to know how to like treat and like pleasure your husband and shit, like just fucking disturbing as shit, Like it's so disturbing. So they made a pack, especially when it came to dealing with their father, and they made a point of never leaving
either Heather or May alone with him. At least one of them would always go with the girl that Fred called to make sure that nothing happened.
That's good, that's really good. Holy shit, good on them girls.
Well they're just surviving.
Really, yeah, I know.
The girls also started only changing clothes and washing whenever Fred was out of the house or whenever the other one or Stephen could guard the door.
But this isn't just surviving though, because just surviving is almost like a self preservation. This is not a self preservation. This is looking out for each other. Yeah, is much more than surviving.
Which is really good that they're looking out for each other. So at least say of that. Yeah, this worked to a certain extent, but it didn't help them on times when Fred did catch them on their own. May later claimed that she managed to somewhat compartmentalize the abuse. Did I say that compart apartment mentalize the abuse? But Heather was, in May's own words, affected quite badly by all of this.
By the mid nineteen eighties, Heather was showing the telltale signs of physical and sexual abuse, and other people were starting to notice. Yes, Fred and Rose played off Heather's behavior as her being a lesbian and even made fun of her for her symptoms.
Wow, the symptoms they are.
Causing symptoms no, of being a lesbian.
Yeah, but they're they're attributing the symptoms of sexual and physical and mentals to being.
A lesbian, I know, which is ridiculous.
Yes, they're saying these sexual abuse, So these abuse symptoms are attributed to being lesbian and now are making fun of you for those symptoms yeh, which are apparently because you're a lesbian. It's like, holy fuck, a, you're causing those b you're lying, and now you're a cee rubbing it in her fucking face.
Yeah, like they're just discussing.
These people can fuck off. Yeah, oh my god. Wow, I'm sorry, but I'm pissed. Oh yeah, like absolutely fun.
We're only halfway through here, dude. So Heather was starting to break her silence and share with close friends her situation. At the same time, rumors of Rose's sex life had reached several of the children's classmates, and Heather was no longer denying them because that was the rule, like you don't share shit outside of the house. A father of one of the classmates ended up finding out of these rumors, but he happened to be friends with the Wests. Like the fact that the West even have friends.
I'm shah get but people like this tend to be very manipulative too, so they're probably pulling the wool over his eyes.
So soon word reached Fred and Rose that Heather was divulging some rather disturbing secrets of their home life.
Was she divulging those secrets though she just wasn't denying them.
She wasn't denying, But then she did also talk to some close friends, took about what was going on? Where am I here? So to follow, Heather received several severe beatings and Fred started walking her to and from school to make sure that no one approached her, so just kind of guarding her.
Right, yeah, exactly.
Realizing that no one would or could help her, Heather tried to make or to take matters into her own hands and applied for a job that would take her far away from her parents. When she got the news that her application had been rejected, Heather apparently broke down into tears and cried the whole night. Being that Heather was no longer in school, May and Stephen had to leave her alone at the home when they went to school.
Oh No, when the siblings returned one day, Heather was nowhere to be found.
Fuck.
They were told that there had actually been a mix up and Heather did in fact get that job that she already left, and no one knew when she would be reaching out to the family again. But as the time passed and Heather didn't reach out to the family. Fred and Rose had to kind of keep changing the story because the hits were asking.
Yeah, I just picture Maury right now, just being like and it's found out that that was a lie.
Like, yeah, they said that Heather and Rose had gotten to a fight and Heather had ran away. They said Heather had ran away with her girlfriend. So they just kept kind of changing, and when May and Stephen wanted to report her missing, Fred told them that Heather had been had actually been involved in fraud.
Okay, But there.
Was also a new family joke going around that Fred and Rose had started. Whenever the moment struck, they would joke with the children or when they were kind of like disciplining them or giving them shit, and sometimes even to each other, they'd say, you'll end up under the patio like Heather. That was like the new family joke, which is really fucking disturbing.
How okay, clearly that's not fiction, that's very true. That's exactly where she is. How would how would that come up to be a joke?
Well, like say you're in I don't know, they they're sick twisted sense of humor, like they're not normal, right, Oh.
No, trusted, I have a sick twisted sense of humor too.
Oh, I thought that was funniest shit, I guess.
Because it's based on fact.
But the kids, the kids didn't believe it either, Like they didn't believe it.
I know. But my point is clearly it's based on fact, because how do you just make up a joke joke at a fiction like that? Yeah, that's not a fiction joke, you know, something like that is going to come from fact.
Yeah, because that is a pretty sick, weird joke to make up when like your kid is supposedly missing exactly. So, in nineteen ninety two, rumors began circling about a tape not to do with Heather, who'd been gone almost six years at this point, but about another one of friend's victims, his now thirteen year old daughter, Louise. It was now Louise's time to experience hell on Earth. Fred had reportedly asked her to bring him something. He then raped her,
sodomized her, and partially strangled her. He did this at least once, or at least another story, three more times, one of them being in front of Rose, and he had also allegedly filmed one of the.
Incidents, so he was dumb enough to put it on video.
Yeah.
Good, well, not good, but good. There's evidence that that's what I'm leaning towards. That sounded terrible, No, I know what you meant.
So it took Louise several weeks to work up the courage to tell one of her close friends what had happened. This friend told her mother, and unlike Heather's Heather confessing this, this parent took the confession to the police, like thank fuck.
Yes, thankfully. Is this where they start getting caught? Yes, thank you fuck yes.
Yes. So the case was assigned to very talented and persistent detective or detective constable named Hazel Savage. Pretty sure that's how you say your last namely her, I think her.
That's a fucking name, and I know, but honestly, like.
You would need someone that's just like gonna get shit done with this case, like she really like dig deep kind of oh shit.
Whether it's a female male, anyone in between, because I'm a dude. I'm gonna do a dude's voice here. But I just picture like a fucking epic action movie being like starring Hazel Savage, like you know, just like fuck yeah, explosions behind them and everything doesn't look back exactly. Aviator shades on, like, fuck yeah, Hazel Savage for the wind o. My god, I need to change my fucking name.
Oh my god, Hazel Savage.
Fuck yes you. I might need to do it one more time. I don't know.
Ben is so into this name. Was didn't even put the name in here when I'm how could you put that name in here? I don't really address her much. I think I can say her name one more time and yeah, wow, I mean it's pretty epic, right, Yes it is. Okay, Hazel fucking Savage.
Cay, I'm done.
Okay, are you a beer? Beer? We got?
So?
Hazel knew Fred from his days with Rena and remembered the stories that Rena had told her about Fred's sexual perversions, like he's a fucking perv. He's more than he's like sometimes I just want to say so many things, but I'm like torn down. Everyone is on the same page. We all always discussing.
I'll say it for you. He's a cunt, a big fucking see you next Tuesday. Yes, Nicole made me. She wouldn't let me say it a second.
So this time sea word very often good. So this time the police did visit the house. They told the West nothing about the call, which is good, so they're like keeping her safe right that they received and actually said they were there looking for stolen goods on the property. And something I haven't really mentioned yet is that Fred did have a petty theft problem because he he needed money to do all his renovations around the home, right see I said that, Yeah, but the like the renovation.
It's not like a normal like I want to fix my deck. It's like he's fixing his deck because there's like bodies under the.
Give it regardless of the reason, it takes money resource time, which is probably where that maybe lack of what's the word I'm looking for, perpetration, I guess yeah, fell.
The police spent a lot of time going through Fred and Rose's extensive pornography collection. They didn't find one of Louise, which is I feel like, probably a good thing. I just that it doesn't get out there, right, Like, No, I don't know, I feel like just no one should see that.
I agreed.
But the children of the household were removed from the house, and medical examinations did reveal evidence of both physical and sexual abuse, so glad Fred and Rose faced charges of rape and child cruelty, and for Roe, she also faced charges of inciting her husband to rape their daughter as well. God the fact that I have to say shit like that and neither of them could get their stories straight
about Heather. When the police asked where she was, Fred claimed that she was a sex worker somewhere, and Roe said she had no idea. After a lengthy interview, Rose suddenly remembered she'd actually asked Heather to leave the house because she was afraid that Heather, being a lesbian would negatively affect the other children. Rose claimed that she she'd even given Heather six hundred pounds to help her set herself up somewhere, but she didn't know where Heather was living.
Now, wow, that is the to quote one of my favorite movies. That's one big pile of shit.
Yeah, like Heather was legitimately like her first child. Yeah, that's so bizarre, Like it's wow. So when Anna Marie found out what was going on, she reached out to the police with hopes of confirming the abuse. Yes, like I'm right on, that's so good. She also told them that even though she'd been trying to reach them for years.
She hadn't been able to find her mother, Rena or her sisters Charmaine and Heather, which is good because unfortunately, at this point, the current case the investigators had against Fred and Rose was actually collapsing. As the children were getting scared. Louise was realizing she didn't want her parents to get into trouble. They were retracting their statements and annam Marie Sorry knew she needed to do the same in order to protect her siblings. Well, the police realized
they needed witnesses who were not afraid of Fred and Rose. Yes, and that was not their children after everything that they had been through.
Fuck Okay, I'm very torn here, but yeah, I know, I understand.
They focused their search on finding Heather, Rina, and Charmaine, and unbelievably, Fred and Rose were let go, although the younger children did stay in social services.
So they're no longer in custody.
Yeah, they're back at their fucking house. Fuck yeah, like the fact that they're back at their house is oh my gosh, it actually makes me feel ill.
They need to find Heather's body, is what they need.
The police then focused all of their efforts into finding the missing missing women like, what's her name again? Hazel Savage?
Oh yeah, Savage was not.
Dropping this, but they kept hearing. So sorry, we're just all over okay, I want to just start that sentence again. The police then focus all their efforts into finding the missing women, but they kept hearing about that joke about Heather under the patio.
The police kept hearing the joke, yeah, because.
They were kind of interviewing the kids, and the kids will kind of like bring that up, guy, right, So the kids mustn't kind of thought maybe sain. None of the West children, including Anna Marie, thought that Fred and Rose had meant anything by it, but the investigators were not so sure. In February nineteen ninety four, this smoking gun, they showed up to twenty five Cromwell Street with a search warranck good boom.
Yes, and they started fucking tearing up that concrete, didn't they?
They told police or where am I here? They told police that any jokes about Heather being under the patio were just jokes, but the investigators had a hard time believing. As the search dragged on into the night. May and Steven remember watching their parents whispering to each other. The following morning, Fred approached Stephen and said, look, son, look after mom and sell the house. I've done something really bad. I want you to go to the papers and make
us as much money as you can. Fred then went to the investigators and told them that he'd killed Heather, So.
Go to the papers and make much as much money as you can't divulging the story, I guess, Holy fuck.
I don't for you know, you're sharing his side. I don't know, which is interesting because I almost wondered if he hoped that that would call off the search, Like if he was, Okay, I'm just going to mit to Heather and then they won't go about trying to find like other women. That was kind of what I was wondering if what he was doing there.
Maybe you know, maybe it was more of a self sacrifice, like like they're going to find the remains. That's a fact because they're digging there right now. Right. So it's like, if I just admit to it and say it was me, then maybe your mother Rose will be left alone, because.
I mean, I'm gonna let me just carry on here and then we'll keep talking.
Yeah.
So Fred told them that it had been an accident and that he'd strangled her in a fit of rage. He then said that he dismembered her body, left her in a dust spin while he dug her a grave, and then buried her out in the garden. He said that Rose hadn't been involved in the murder at all, and she hadn't even known about it until just now. He then volunteered to show the investigators where he actually
buried the body and Okay, let's just stop there. So where he so I feel like he was just like this is where you should search, Like you don't need to search anywhere else, Like I'm guilty. Rose didn't do anything, Like, let's just move on with our lives here.
Yeah, he's probably trying to. It's a combination of what I said and you said. I think, yeah, sounds of it. And did you know that actually there there are areas where you can legally bury remains in your backyard and stuff.
Oh really, I mean if you're in a little lot downtown or something like that, probably not, But there's certain areas, and at least I'm talking about like North America, in Canada and the United States, there's areas where you can, yeah, you can bury remains of loved ones and have graves on your property.
Yeah.
Yeah, well think of what's that show that we watched, a Yellowstone.
Yeah, I was literally thinking about that grave. Yeah.
They dug graves on their their farm, hundreds of thousand.
Yeah, they have huge they have like the room and all.
Yeah, but yeah, it's legal in some areas, it's legal.
Okay. As they were excavating her remains, they came across a third thigh.
Bone, of course they did.
Fred told the investigators that there are two more sets of remains in the garden, one of them belonging to Shirley Robinson and allegedly one of her friends. Being that three sets of human remains had now been found, a decision was made to thoroughly search the entire property.
Yeah, rightfully so, to.
Which Fred confessed to the additional murders and their whereabouts, which is so interesting to me.
So basically, the investigators like, we have a warrant, we're going to dig for remains in the spot you said they were going to be. And he's like, okay, fine, there's one body there, let's drop it now. And they're like, well, we're going to dig the body up just to be sure, and then they're like, actually, there's three here, and he's like, okay, fine, I killed three. Now, let's stop. They're like no, We're going to keep going, and he's like, shit, there's more. Yeah, yeah, Like holy shit.
Yeah. Each victim had been extensively mutilated and showed signs of experience extreme sexual assault before death. Yeah. Fred stuck to a story that Rose hadn't been involved in any of the assaults or murders, but the police thought otherwise. They also arrested her on April twentieth, nineteen ninety four. Rose claimed that she was innocent, as she still does to this day.
Yeah, I guarantee you that's a fucking lie.
Yeah, I mean a lot of people, see I'm not. I'm definitely like not a Rose fan here because I feel like she's an awful person. But then a lot of people point out, like she was just a like a young young person when they met, right, so she was very much so manipulated. But I also do think she was a terrible person even at the time they met too already.
I guarantee you she was manipulated in many ways. However, just because you were manipulated doesn't excuse your actions when you are involved in a fucking murder, abuse and in any shape or form of your arm kids. Yeah, any harm in any person. Yeah, you willingly were a participant. Yes, you were also a victim, But you were also a participant. Those are that's two different things. Yeah, and that's that's just a fact. I'm sorry, it is.
She was an active participant, yes.
And there's there's evidence of her knowing about the death of Heather. It was Heather, right, Sorry, Yeah, she knew about the death of Heather. She knew about where she was bing.
She encouraged Fred in so many of these in situations, and she joked.
Prior to the investigation about where she was fucking buried. You can't tell me she did not know any of this. Yeah, fuck off.
Fred just continues confessing. He told the investigators that he'd also killed Rina and Charmaine. They were not at the house, they were somewhere else. Their bodies, he said that he knew were Anne mcfalls remains were the pregnant girl who'd gone missing right before he reconciled with Rena. But he did and deny, He like till the end, denied that he killed and mcfalls and that Rena did kill her. That's so weird you did.
It was very robotic, but.
Yeah it was. I had written it really fucking weird in my notes and then I tried to improvise it well.
And to be fair, it was getting late too, so I can't.
To be fair.
To be fair, Wow, you caught that one, not me always.
I heard that every moment. And just so you all are aware, like Ben does fucking say that even when we're all podcasting all the time. Uh. Fred remains deadfast and almost a bit stoic behind bars, but everything changed when he and Rose were brought before the courts. It wasn't, however, the thought of more time behind bars or being faced with his horrible crimes that broke Fred. It was Rose. At court, Fred reached out to Rose and put his hand on her shoulder, probably as part of her defense.
Rose winced and looked uncomfortable. When the trial was over for the day and the police began to escort Fred away, Fred fought back and tried to reach for Rose again. Rose winced again and tried to get away from Fred. This allegedly just broke him or Rose was the love of his life right. He then became noticeably depressed. He sent letter after letter to Rose and asked their kids to pass messages onto her, but Rose turned her back
on him. She was sticking to her story about not knowing anything about the murders, including that of Heather, and she was hanging Fred out to dry.
I mean good, he deserves a fucking rot. But again, and she is not just a victim. She is also a part of it too. Yeah, doesn't that. That doesn't mean she's not a victim too. She is a victim I feel sorry for in that ass. Yeah, yeah, she was also a part of it.
Fred then had a change of heart and admitted to the investigators that Rose had been a part of this all along. He said the only murder that Rose hadn't been involved in was Anne mcfalls, and that it had actually been Rina who killed her. Sorry, okay, I said that earlier too, and it's in there twice. He then hung himself in his jail cell. On January first, nineteen ninety five, Rose was to face the charges alone. She was charged with ten murders. The verdict was simple and unanimous.
She was found guilty and sentenced to ten life sentences without the possibility of parole.
My heart fucking stopped for a Secondhen you said ten, I was like, that better be life sentence in ten years.
Oh my gosh, because she wasn't super when they were like going through all this. So holy shit, I'll finish this case with this. I came across an article from nineteen ninety nine where one of the West children attempted to commit suicide, and she hasn't been the only one to try to do so. She had not wanted to be rescued and said, people say, I am lucky to have survived, but I wish I had died. I can
still taste the fear, still feel the pain. It's like going back to being a child again, which is unfortunate. Truth of this case. Though there were twelve bodies found, the reality is that there were probably many more, and there are also many surviving victims.
That was one of the most heartbreaking things I fucking heard.
Holy I know. Actually I almostn't put it in there because it makes you want to solve, but yeah, wow, I mean it needed to be in there because we think about those twelve, those twelve bodies found, but it's like, in reality, there are so many victims.
Oh yeah, in this case. Oh yeah, the victims go far beyond just those who lost their lives. Yeah, I mean, she is lucky to have her life, because there's twelve victims who did not have their life. But with that comes the caveat of all the suffering, the remembering, the pain, the torture, the PTSD, you name it. List goes on. She is not lucky to be living with those she lived through a literal hell yeah, wow, holy fuck.
Okay, yeah, so that's the friend Rose West case.
Wow.
Well, well doozy of a case.
Well done. Holy shit.
I mean, like that quote at the end has almost just lost the left you speechless.
Say those like quotes and shit at the end and stuff they always like, bring this level.
I do that a lot.
Sorry, No, that's that's good because it's it really gets us on the level of those victims, and I think that's so important to really understand their perspective and their thoughts. I don't know, anytime we bring their voice into it, it just makes it so much more real. Yeah, Like for example, I mean, this wasn't a quote after the fact, but it was their voice prior to Judith Barci Barsley. Remember from All Dogs Go to Heaven like things like that. It just makes us so much more real.
Yeah.
Yeah, because we can sit here and talk about this all fucking day, but as soon as we have the victim's voice and being a part of it, it takes it to a different level.
Yeah, next level, Like yeah, I mean, because yeah, true crime is kind of it. I mean, I don't know, for lack of better words, you can call it a hallby of sorts really right for a lot of people.
Well, it's it's a genre of entertainment.
There you go. And but then yeah, sometimes it almost when you're watching a documentary, you're listening to podcasts and it doesn't actually seem like real life like that, like, how could that actually happen?
Yeah, well we become disconnected so easy.
Yeah.
I mean you watch the news and you see horrible
shit happen on the day to day basis. You are driving to work, you hear about a gas station robbery and someone got shot, and you're like, oh the fuck that sucks, and you forget about it five minutes later, and that person who got shot, who potentially died, it's just they're out out of your head, out of your thought, never to be thought of again, because these things happen so often, but as soon as you have that connection to a real human being, that real person's perspective, that's
when it becomes so much more fucking real. Yep, totally wow, well done, babe.
That was thank you.
It was hard to hear, but well done.
Yeah, it I can kind of I realize why I was like putting that one off a little bit.
Yeah, you really put that one off.
Just because like I knew it was gonna be a lot to research. I mean, there's you could go way more like down a rabbit hole with this case, and
like there's books and so much. But yeah, it's just it's also very brutal, and I hate I kind of I do actually do couples sometimes, right, Yeah, and yeah, just the thought of them, like Fred was able to pick up those hitchhikers too because Rose was there, yeah, right, and they just like play off each other and it's just just like the psychology behind all of it too, it's just mind blown.
We'll think about it in the hitch hitchhiker's perspective. I think this was what was the woman in a box or what was that one that we did not too long ago?
Oh, Colleen was a Colleen Stan I think so yeah.
And she was a hitchhiker who was picked up by a couple.
And didn't they have a baby?
I think so yeah. Yeah, so that atmosphere of oh, it's safe, it's a couple, it's a family versus oh, I'm getting into a single man's vehicle.
Mm hmm.
And as a man, it's terrifying to say that men are the fucking scary ones, but it is very much so true. So if you're getting in a single man's vehicle that is that could be potentially terrifying, But there's another person in there, a woman, a child, it puts you at ease so much easier.
Well, yeah, because it wasn't oh man, it's hard to remember cases sometimes, like the nitty gritty details, But it wasn't she one that turned down a ride that had like a whole bunch of men one the vehicles.
I believe you researched it, I know, yeah, but we do. We research case in depth every week. A lot of them blur together.
Yeah they do, but I'm pretty sure that was that one. So yeah, anyway.
That was tough to listen to, though. Yeah, Bread and Rose can fuck off, they suck. Yeah, to put it lightly, yeah, I fucking suck. Yeah, holy shit. Okay, Well, we appreciate you guys listening to Nicole's two parter and thanks for making us wait a whole nother week.
You're welcome our pleasure.
Yeah, you did good, and we appreciate you guys showing up for part one, Part two, all the episodes. We've got something really cool we're gonna share with you here, probably tomorrow, so check our social media for that. If not, we're gonna be talking about it next week on the episode, so stay tuned because it's it's pretty cool, pretty exciting.
Yeah.
So yeah, until then, though, social medias are down on the link so you can follow it to check it out. We have Patreon, we have website. Feel free to sign up, leave us a comment, go over on Spotify. Answered the little question that will put up there, You could do that too. If not, you just want to listen, that's fan fuckingtastic. That's cool. We appreciate that, and we love that.
We love having you here no matter what.
Yeah, so thank you for all the above, and thank you for the awesome episode babe.
Yeah, and until next week, stay wicked