Fred and Rose West - Part 1

We cross paths with many people throughout our day. Generally, when you meet a stranger at the bus stop, it's not a memorable experience. But for the encounter of Fred and Rose, that was not the case. These two meeting ended in at least a dozen horrific and sexually motivated killings. You could say if these two didn't cross pass, the world would be a better place.

I'm Nicole, I'm Ben, and this is Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast. Morning podcast listeners just question that much. Do you got a drink? Oh? You started again? Fuck? I did? We don't have high. I don't even know what's going on for you for a fucking loop.

Because I didn't hear you clicked the button and then all of a sudden, it's like I saw the time rolling and I.

Was like, oh my gosh, I'm flustered.

Like ah, it's almost like the curtain came open and I wasn't fucking.

Ready, clearly because you're just rambling right now. Welcome. How's it going everyone. We are having a fantastic day today. We are as we record this, we got some news we do.

We have some very exciting news, and we don't have a to Chink because Ben did that over watch to Chink.

To Chink, to Chink an opening of a can to Chink, same thing. Get a shirt the Sad to.

Chink because Ben opened it over onres We did pre show.

We did. But what was your big announcement? I quit? You quit your job, the job, not the podcast. Oh my god, I wonder I people were just like, yeah, no, not the podcast. Today I put in my official resignation from my job. From here, I am going full time into video and media creation, and by media creation that also encompasses podcasting. So we've got a lot coming down the pipe for you, guys. I'm super nervous. I'm sure Nicole's super nervous as well.

Quite as much as you, because I have been. I kind of mentioned to the full time of working for myself already, and I know it can work.

So touche. Yeah. Well, I've worked at the same company for over a decade and in the same industry for like over sixteen years. Yeah, so it's a big day for you. It's a big deal, super scary. But we have five weeks notice that I gave. The nice thing is I have that luxury of giving lots of notice to my employer, who's been quite kind to me throughout

But so the cool thing is will well, Ben, we'll have more time to put towards this podcast.

Yeah, it was awesome. A big thing is things like social media and Patreon as well, because we feel like we could be doing a lot better for Patreon, especially when it comes to like answering a little bit sooner and stuff.

Well, and our comments on Instagram, it just sometimes is a bit overwhelming.

Facebook, Instagram, all those messages and comments we get a lot.

We used to be really good and on top of them, but lately it's been a little bit harder to.

Keep on top of them. Well, we get way more than we used to, so that doesn't help. But yeah, because of you guys supporting this show, you have given us the proof of concept. I couldn't figure out that word earlier. You've given us the proof of concept to show that we can go full time with things like this podcast. So that's where I come in, and I'm going full time with it. So thank you so much for your support. It means the absolute world. Yeah, so today is thanks to all of you guys out there,

Ben's not a very big risk ticker at all. Actually, so the fact that we've live in a tiny home sometimes amazes me that you were like.

Sure, yeah, let's do it. Well, anytime I take risks, I usually have a safety net, right, and it's the tiny home. There's always the backup of oh, you sell it and you go buy something else or rent or whatever. You lose a little bit of money, sure, whatever, and you just move on. Yeah with this, what if this doesn't work out? Well, then you go back and get another job. Yeah, but potentially pay wise, hour wise, where how long will that take? There's no safety net, it's just more questions.

Yeah, but then there's questions sometimes if you don't take that leap as well.

That's true, and that was one of the big things that really pushed It's like, well, well I regret it one day right now, We're in the position to be able to do it. So do it, yolo, just do it.

Just Nike is now a sponsor of this podcast.

Wish she's kidding, Nike, reach out, we're calling you.

On a very side note, Ben is getting a haircut on a SAT. Saturday. So for any of you that I can't remember what episode, Ben and I had a bet that he would not grow a man bun, but he was in the process of growing a man bun.

Nicole caved. I caved. I just had to. She's telling me to cut it. I would grow it. But one of the stipulations was if she told me to cut it, I will, But that just means I win.

No one needs to see that shit. So yeah, you know, we're putting a stop to it.

You're not wrong. So I'm gonna get a haircut and I'm not going to look like a sloppy joke. You should at least maybe post what you have going on. Oh I will, I'll post that over it. I'll post it before and after my haircut. How's that. There you go, so you can see the difference. Yeah.

Yeah, and then I think the last the last order of business here is to thank our patrons.

Right, love, patrons, I had to open that up in my phone here because you sent it to me. I sure did. That's that's one of Nicole's jobs, is she sends me to patrons the list. She checked tracks where we were last time, and we.

Thanked because Ben's is the names because he just is better at pronouncing ship.

So yeah, we delegate jobs, and Nicole's doing her fantastic job, and now it's time for me to do mine. Do it sandcastic as well? All right, maybe I should should I put on like a radio announcer voice? What kind of voice? Should I do it in? Like a radio like an NHL game, like like a screaming fad like?

No, like you were like a broadcaster like, ladies and gentlemen, Is that a broadcaster?

Well, I mean kind of, I guess, yeah, a broadcasting voice. Whatever, Okay, I'll do some sort of broadcasting voice. All right, ladies and gentlemen. So we have several individuals to thank over on our patreons. Starting we have Shay, then moving on, we have Yukio Wolf, Pilo, Katie Hemphil, Beth Monroe, and Penny Roberts. Thank you so much to all you out there joining our Patreon supports us in a way you can't even imagine. So thank you so much. We really

That didn't It was good, but it didn't sound quite as genuine, So thank you to those patrons of It didn't feel as genuine, but it was just fun. So I'm just saying thank you again in a normal voices.

You guys are awesome. Radio is very quick paid.

It almost sounds like it's like auction, like an auction.

Not mere fast for allue. But I will go through it proper this time. So we have Shay, Oh my gosh, you don't have ki oh Wolf, Okay, Kalia, Pilo, Katie Hemphil, Beth Monroe, Penny Roberts.

No.

I did want to go over again because it was not sincere doing it in a radio.

No, it didn't like it came across as genuine, and we're that's what we're all about here, is being as as genuine as we can be.

So she told me to do the announcement. I know, you know what. We did it, we explored it. It failed. We're moving on, fucking move on, all right, We're I'm.

Gonna be nice as fuck. This is part one. This is a part one, episode Part one, part one, And you know what, I feel like, I stopped it.

You know what, I stopped in an asshole? Part Yeah I did, But did you really?

Kind of?

You had to, you, some bitch.

But anyway, we're covering Fred and Rose West today.

Bell damped. It's about damp time. This is a doozy. So it's a doozy of a case.

And we had a requested to us many times by many people.

Yeah, it's been one that we've had requested for like over a year.

And I was like it was on my list, but I didn't quite realize how large it was.

So it's pretty large. It's kind of consumed my life, That's what she said.

So this is, uh this this should we should we go? Goodness gracious, someone needs to control him over there.

He's in like a good mood. I'm in one hell of a good mood. Yeah, I'm gonna sit back and drink my drink. How's that you need something to keep you busy? Over there? I do. I'm I'm over the moon right now. So I'm sorry. If I seem like a lot today, that's solely on me. Nicole is doing a fantastic job.

I am just I just feel like everyone out there send I should just like send help.

I'll send some sort of.

Like like I'll have to do a secret message that I need help.

Wow, just get fucking morse code by blinking on an Instagram reel or some shit. I'm just kidding. It's all good. No, it's a good day. It's a good day. Okay, ready, I mean not really, but let's fucking do I don't know if I'll be able to sit still. I can't control my excitement. No, I'm ready, let's do it, okay. So.

Frederick Walter Stephen West, otherwise known as Fred West, is the person a lot of the story centers around. He was born on September twenty ninth, nineteen Ford to one Wow way back then in much Markele, which is a village in England, to parents Walter Stephen West and Daisy Hannah Hill. His father was a known disciplinary discipline.

Lah discipline in an area a disciplinary disciplinary.

I do want to say that sometimes my tongue just like gets tied up all over the place. And his mother was incredibly overprotective, especially over Fred, who was known to be her favorite.

Oh favoritism of the children.

See, I think lots of times parents do maybe have a favorite, but then that's not really something they like vocalize. But it was known that Fred was the favorite, and I think he was the favorite because he was. They had had a child previously that unfortunately passed away, like not very long after she gave birth to the baby, and so Fred was like the first kid that survived, and so they probably just had a whole bunch of hope and stuff for him.

And yeah, I see that. But also I'm I mean to be fair, to be fair, to be fair. I'm not a parent, so I could be speaking out a context or ignorance here, but I think that it's completely reasonable for a parent to have a favorite child. It doesn't mean that you love any one child more than

You know what I mean, And it's probably different stages too, or exactly you kind of be like, oh, this kid is actually being really good right now and this one's not so.

So I don't I don't think, and I mean, one of those kids could be more like you and the other one like your spouse, which might annoy you. Who knows. I don't think anyone should feel guilty if that is a case. I think that would be a completely normal thing.

I just got like a vision of like if I had a kid and they were exactly like you, what my life would be like.

It was a lot in that split second vision there your life flashed before your eyes.

So basically, Fred and his mother were close close I understand. Some say Fred seemed like any other young boy growing up, his aunt eventually telling the press that he always or he has always been such a nice boy. One neighbor described him as a bit cheeky, a bit mouthy, but that was the way the kids were, so kind of like a normal description there from outsiders.

Yeah, a little lippy, but whatever, the best of them.

At school, he had a hard time getting on with the other kids. He also didn't do well in his classes. He was good with his hands, but he struggled with any academic work. By the time he left school, he was only fifteen and he was barely literate, which is kind of unfortunate.

Well, I mean fifteen and was it nineteen forties.

Yeah, Oh, I think a lot of people probably they left school.

Yeah, I don't think that's I think that's probably relatively normal.

But still being that age and he was in school and he was still like kind of literate, so he really struggled, right, Yeah. His only job prospects were working as a farm hand, which is not necessarily a bad job.

No.

His social problems only grew worse as he became a young adult and started going to youth clubs with his younger brother John. After hearing his country accent, many at the social clubs pegged him for a country boy and either picked on him or just completely ignored him. The plan was to meet girls, and though Fred wasn't exactly a looker, he did have a bit of charm to him, and that seemed to work on susceptible and inexperienced young women.

Oh okay, yeah, okay, But.

His approach to women didn't exactly help him make many friends either. From the start, Fred seemed to view women in a different light than most people do. Asking for consent, for example, wasn't necessarily in his vocabulary.

So he's your modern day douchebag alpha Chad. You're like looking off the king. I'm thinking he's like your modern day douche basically, No, because he doesn't really have much going for him either. Yeah either, do like these douchebag chad people. I don't know. I don't know, but he just like you wouldn't ask he's worse. I would say he's worse. He's worse, Okay, Okay.

So he He later explained, in a claim that was denied by another of his brothers, that the way he was like this was because his mother had taught him and introduced him to sex when he was only twelve years old. So he's saying that she sexually abused him.

Okay, that's what I thought. Horrible. It's one thing to like teach like the birds and the beast, yeah, but it's another to teach teach the birds and the beast. Yeah.

So he claimed this, but then he had and it's claimed in many many articles. But then he did have a brother later that denied this.

Okay, but who knows. Maybe the brother wasn't even aware, Like, yeah, that's very possible because the brother was younger than him, and there's a lot of family dynamic situations where one of the individuals is the subject of abuse where the others aren't.

Yeah. He also said that he learned a lot about sex from seeing his father rape his sisters when they were living on the farm together.

Oh snap, this guy's grown up all fucking kinds of great.

Hey, I know so exactly how much of this is true and how much of it Fred was making up to justify either his own failures with women or his own terrible actions later is difficult to say, because after talking with him for only a few minutes, it didn't take many people long to figure out that Fred was a pathological liar, and he'd often embellish or completely make ups stories about himself just to make him look good.

Cool.

I mean, I feel like some shit would have gone down in that house, for sure, but who knows to what extent?

Yeah, I mean, if someone is a pathological liar, they may not only be blowing things out of proportion, but making things up out of nowhere. Yeah, So it could be just a perfectly normal household and he's making these things up, or he could be blowing it out of proportion, or I mean, it could be completely true and he's just lying about other shit. Yeah, who's to say.

I think I do have this in later. Hopefully I didn't take it out. Maybe I have it in later. Because there was also some reports too that he like experimented on the animals that they had too. Oh, and that was apparently learned from his father.

So I don't know, I don't know.

I don't think that his father was setting a very good example for him or his mother really either way. So what we do know for sure is that Fred sustained two major head injuries, the first one occurring when he was only seventeen years old. He got into an on his motorcycle that left him with a broken arm

There you go.

So the second one came only two years later, when a girl that he allegedly groped at a social club turned around and punched him. Which is he good for you?

I mean, I'm sorry.

If someone groped me, I would punch them in the face and I would feel fine with.

Yes, violence is never okay, But neither his fucking sexual assault. No. No, I like, I was just like I would be okay with punching them in the face. Okay. I can't argue if someone's reaction is that, you have every right to react that way. Fucking rights. However, there's better ways to handle it, you know what I mean. There is fine. I can't blame you, but there are better ways, That's all I'm saying. If that's your reaction, fucking you know, but also try not to stoop to their level. Exactly.

So, the two of them have been standing on a fire escape and the punch had sent Fred tumbling down the stairs until he finally stopped two floors down and hit his head.

Oh shit.

And as we know, head injuries can lead to massive changes and personalities at times. Right, yeah, So Fred's friends and family noted that after his stay in the hospital, his second stay, Fred became irrationally afraid of hospitals and prone to fits of intense rage.

I don't know if that's sorry I went away from the microm in it. I don't know if that's irrational to be afraid of hospitals after that.

No. No, I mean I think a lot of people, even without being experienced, like you just it's a place you don't want to go. Yeah, right, and it's she when you've had two pretty probably traumatic events, like you're not feeling good towards that place.

Yeah, but who knows to what degree he was acting?

Yeah, So that doesn't quite explain what Fred had been doing before he received those head injuries, because it's not like after receiving them he all of a sudden turned into a douche canoe.

He was a douche canoe before, gotcha. I'm just saying he's a douche canoe before. He's still a douche canoe. Now, he's just fucking douche canoe squared exactly squared. Douche canoe squared.

Uh. So, oh goodness, Okay, I do have the So Fred openly admitted that since his mother had introduced him to sex. He'd read regularly engaged in what is it called beast reality right with the animals on the farm. But that wasn't all. In nineteen sixty one, Fred's thirteen year old sister Kitty, made a disturbing confession to their mother. Oh no, now, I'm going to just put a oh.

A disclosure statement.

Some reports said that it was not the sister but a close family friend, but a lot of the majority of the reports did say that it was the sister. So I just went with the sister. But there is the possibility that it wasn't the sister and it was a close friend. So Kitty said that Fred had been sexually abusing her for over half a year, and now she was pregnant with his child.

Oh fuck. Really.

Fred was arrested and openly admitted to abusing Kitty and many other girls, young girls, and he couldn't understand why he was being charged with anything, and when asked why he'd done what he'd done, he then asked the question to them, doesn't everyone do it?

Wow?

Okay, So, as we know Daisy, Fred's mother had a soft spot for Fred, and though disgusted with him, she agreed to testify in her son's defense, but she would never have to because in the end, Kitty ended up dropping or changing her mind and ended up refusing to testify, so the charges against her brother were dropped.

Wow, that is one of the most disturbing things, doesn't everybody.

Yeah, that's quite a statement. He like, it's very disturbing.

That there, just shows what he was taught as Ah.

I know a kid, Yeah, I've got a very just and what he goes about teaching.

Yeah, I've got a very disturbing story that I'm going to share with you here. It's a story that I

I know. I mean, if I can see it happening.

Yeah, if you if that's what you're taught, that's.

Literally because your parents can be so manipulatve not saying that people are like this, but there are a few people like this that you legitimately believe that that is happening in everybody's household.

Yeah, you're you're told this is normal. Yeah, I mean think of it in a so disturbing a rational aspect that we're I mean, we eat animals, we eat cows, pigs, right, the majority of the world does. So. Is it far fetched to say if we cut them up and consume them that if you are taught from a young age for over the course of your entire life that you can do other things, why would there be red flags

Oh my gosh, Okay, moving on. He's just disturbing. All of this is disturbing. Yeah, And I mean he probably, But the thing is, like, I've researched this case. I see the kind of person he is, and that doesn't everybody do it. I almost be like, well, is he legit? Is he being serious? But he probably is? Like at that point, I think he's or he's either a teenager or early twenties, so he could still be very much unbelieving.

Yeah, he could also be lying too. Yeah, there is that possibility.

So though his charges were never proven in court, most of the family, including his mother, actually did cut ties with Fred and he was kicked out of the family home. This didn't last outstandably, It didn't last too long though. His relationship with his siblings and most of his family,

Anyone, Yeah, exactly.

So, Rena was pregnant and the father of her unborn child was of a darker race, the majority of reports saying he was from Western Asia. This had led to some difficulties between her and her family members, and it's difficult to say whether it was because her baby would be of mixed race or if she was having a childhood of wedlock. Okay, I think it's more so the latter, because it didn't seem like they had disclosed what the race of the baby would be until the baby was born.

The only guest at the wedding, Yes, a single person attended their wedding. Well, I think it was.

It might have been like a friend as well too, but like the only family member. Oh, the only family member.

I literally envisioned them of the altar at a fucking church and one person in the audience, like.

Well, I know, I think I think it might have been like one or two, But also I don't know over there it could be different here, like you need

Was the father, gotcha right, Yeah.

So in July the following year, the couple welcomed another daughter, Anna Marie, but things at the West family home were anything but happy. Rena struggled to deal with Fred's outbursts, and most of the time they were actually directed towards the girls. What initially could have looked like Fred being a supportive and loving husband by helping Rena raise a child that had essentially got her kicked out of her own home, only turned into a way for Fred to

No, I don't. He's clearly going to go back to certain things that he was doing in his early age, acting in these fucking horrific douche canooe squared ways.

He had numerous affairs, even allegedly fathering a child with another woman before Rena found out. Cool When she did, though, instead of leaving Fred or asking him to stop, Rena then started having affair of her own with a man named John.

Okay, So I mean they're you really were thinking that consensual relationships can go many ways. Yeah, both partners are okay with you know, open relationships and stuff. I sure fucking go for it. But I mean if it's like, well, you're fucking cheating on me, so I'm gonna fucking cheat on you, and then you're both pissed off at each other, what the fuck does that solve? See?

Bred was okay with him cheating, and he wasn't okay with Rena cheating.

Of course he was. Anyone who's fucking the cheater is always okay with it. Yeah, they're never okay when they're the cheaty katy cheated, cheated chips. They're the cheetos, the Cheetos of the relationship world. No, no, they're the lays because a they're getting laid and bet, bet you can't have just one. Oh my word. Okay.

So things got nasty though when Fred discovered that Rena and John were together. Oh my gosh, without skipping a beat, Fred, oh so he actually like found them, So without skipping a beat, Fred burst into the room and actually punched Rena. Seeing this, John then punched Fred, who then pulled a knife out and actually managed to catch John and the abdomen. It wasn't a very deep wound, and John kept fighting. He punched Fred a second time, and after that Fred backed out.

Of the fight. Wow, so okay, gotcha.

Yeah, he only liked to really, He didn't seem like he really fought back much when it comes came to guys, but like women, he liked to control them, which is disturbing.

Okay, interesting, Well, I mean there are guys out there like that who like to be dominant to the opposite sex or whatever. Yeah, but when it comes to confrontation with another man, they're not that. And I hate this term, but I'm going to use it here because it's a good example. But they're not that alpha type, you know, so they they are more submissive in that those scents, but they're like to beat the alpha when they can, so they will to women.

Yeah. So Fred continuing continued having his affairs, and Rena continued having her affair with John. But now that Fred knew where Rena was spending her time, he made sure she paid for it. He beat her, and whenever John found out about the beatings, he'd go over to the West Household and in return beat Fred.

Fuck.

John later said he couldn't tackle a man, but he wasn't so slow in attacking women.

This is this isn't a love triangle. This is an abusive triangle, you know, like holy fuck? Yeah, yeah, Like because Fred's going to beat her, and in Lou, John's going to beat him, and in Lou He's going to beat her again because John came and beat him, and that's going to get a vicious psycle. Holy fuck. All right.

So in November nineteen six, Fred was in hot water for an entirely different reason. He'd been involved in an accident with his ice cream van. The accident had left a young boy dead, and though Fred was cleared out of any wrongdoings, he didn't quite He didn't feel like

Well, we have fucking backup cameras and rearview mirrors stuff. Who knows if they had even the mirrors properly in the vehicle he was using, It's hard to say so.

Thinking that some of the locals would take justice into their own hands, Fred moved the family to Gloucester. Rita didn't join him until February the following year, and when she did, she brought some.

Guests with her.

So Issa McNeil, a teenager who'd been there, nanny who was looking for a better life, and so was her sixteen year old friend and McFall is that.

Oh sorry, I just made a loud noise in my mic I don't know if that'll even get picked up.

Yeahs Issa had introduced Anne to the West while she was working for them, and when Anne's boyfriend had died in a workplace accident, they'd all become much closer. Issa and Anne followed Rena to Gloucester, thinking that a fresh start would be the thing that they needed to get their lives on track. Only they didn't quite realize what they were walking into. It didn't take long for Fred to start viewing all three women living in his house, two of them still only teenagers as his own property.

Fucking course he did. God yeah, sorry, it pisses me off so much.

This guy is going to piss you off big time. So he beat Rena and Issa and told Rena to start working as a sex worker so that they could make more money. He also started sexually abusing his stepdaughter Charmaine.

Why didn't he go out and suck some dick's for extra cash? I don't know. He could have made that money. He could have fucking put those lips to good use, buddy, he could have.

So desperate, Rena called John and begged him to get her, her two daughters, and Issa.

Out of there.

John immediately agreed and hatched a plan with Issa's boyfriend to drive down and pick all them up while Fred was out of the house. But Anne's name was missing from that list. Anne had fallen for Fred and he'd promised to marry her.

Oh wow, okay.

When she found out about the others attempting to leave, she told Fred everything.

Which only pissed him off and he probably went on a fucking rampage. Yep, okay cool.

So when the other six met at the meeting spot, Fred and Anne show up as well and told the others that she was going to stay with Fred, and Fred told them that Rena and Issa could leave, but Charmaine and Anna Marie the two kids, would be coming with him. John and Fred fought again, with Fred being hit several times, but he didn't let go of the girls, and the police were called to the scene. John, Issa, her boyfriend, and Rena left and the girls stayed with Fred.

Oh fuck, yeah, great, this is going to be fann fuckingtastic.

Fred kept the girls and he warned Rena that he would kill her if he ever saw her again. But she, I mean, I feel like you'd have to be a very also be somewhat of a strong individual to be with this Fred man. Yeah, and she ignored Fred's warnings, and she did make a point of visiting the daughters.

And where the daughters save. Relatively speaking.

This also created a lot of tension between Rena, Fred and Anne, which all blew up when Rena was arrested for stealing some of Van's things.

Do you like how I just avoided your question? I did.

The court case shone a light on the situation at Fred's home. But Fred, he was a manipulator. He knew how to lie. He told the court that things were going to calm down because Anne was moving back to Glasgow, and the court believed him and actually moved to a different caravan in the same caravan park that Fred and the girls were living, but that did mean that Rena could then stay in Fred's caravan whenever she visited the girls.

Here we fucking go. I was waiting for Rose to come into the story. Mm hmm, fucking Fred.

So Rose had only just turned fifteen when she met Fred at the bus stop. They were waiting, Oh cool, and Fred was twenty eight.

Wow, that's fucking fantastic. Wow. All right.

Rose was initially unimpressed with Fred. Actually, she thought, so am I, oh so am I?

Oh? What really was funny for me? You're good bruh.

She thought that he looked and smelled like a homeless man. That was literally her thoughts. I think he was like a homeless man.

Oh, I know I'm not going to like her here coming up, but I like her right now.

But once she realized that he wasn't, and after he kept pursuing her, Rose started to like all the attention and the compliments that Fred kept giving her, which, you know, compliments are nice sometimes, Yeah, it was nothing compared to the attention he gave her after he found out that Rose was very sexually active. After that, Fred tried everything. He even told her that his wife had abandoned him and their two daughters, but he still had help for

And the two of them did eventually become a couple. D d dum du dun duh.

Rose would spend a lot of time in his caravan, both to see him and to look after the girls. Her relationship with the girls was good at first, and she managed to actually convince Fred to start treating them better for a while, but that didn't last so long. Only weeks after they started dating, Rose had quit her job and was a full time nanny to Charmaine and

That's a very nice way of putting it. They disapproved.

They disapproved of Fred. Fred was very disapproval, disapproving. I don't even know what that means.

He sucked. That sucked Fuck you Fred. Not not cool Fred, Eh, not cool Fred, No, it's fucking Fred. Fucking Fred.

They were unsuccessful in stopping, so not knowing what else like stopping the relationship, so not knowing what else to do. They actually called social services to have Rose removed from her own home and put into a center for troubled youth or troubled teens. She was only allowed off of the premises on weekends and when she was supposed. When she was allowed off, she was supposed to go and visit her parents, but she used that time, of course, to go and see Fred instead. Fred.

Instead, she saw Fred yep, and then some people were dead. Yeah, there you go. That sums it up. We're done here and that's thanks for joining us today and we can agreement.

When she turned sixteen, Rose was officially allowed to leave the center and she moved in with Fred the first chance she got. Her father tried one last time to end the relationship by saying that Rose was pregnant and that it was statutory rape, so the police examined her. It was true Rose was actually pregnant, but she was allowed to leave the station under the condition that she terminate her pregnancy and go back home to her family.

Aw fuck yes.

And it's also believed that Rose molested her brother.

Wow. Yes. It's unbelievably sad how common sexual assault is within families and the things people endure from it. And then it's super sad when you see, like we kind of already mentioned it, people learning these things from such a young age. But it's so sad when people learn these behaviors behaviors and they pass them on to someone else.

Well, yeah, and now these two individuals are together and forming a relationship, and the kind of abuse that they grew up with unfortunately carries on to the next generation.

Yeah, the absolute shittiest kind of power couple. Yeah.

And I'm not saying it always does. It doesn't always, Oh no, not at all, but in this situation it did.

So yeah. No, there are situations where people like this could get together and all they do is help support each other and they're there for the other when they need it and advocate.

Yeah.

Yeah. However, there was the flip side that is Rose. Yep.

So by the time Fred and Rose's first child, Heather Anne, was born. Charmaine and Anna Marie were old enough remember what life was like living in the West household. Although although they both experienced different kinds of sexual abuse from their father, they also experienced physically or physical, emotional and mental abuse from Rose. Rose would often beat them, and she showed a lot of excitement when someone got hurt

Fuck.

Just before Fred was released in the summer of nineteen seventy one, Charmaine disappeared.

Oh fuck. Rose told everyone that.

Charmaine had gone to live with her mother, and when Fred got out of prison, he stood by this statement. It didn't, however, take long for Rena to figure out that something was wrong and Charmaine was missing.

She kept coming to Fred's.

House, putting the pressure on Fred to tell her what had happened to her daughter. She was lasting at the house, probably demanding to take custody of both her daughters before she also disappeared.

Of course she did. Fuck.

Six months later, Fred and Rose got married. Fred was technically married to Rena, but now that she was nowhere to be seen, Fred listed himself as a bachelor on the paperwork and went about marrying Rose for the second time in his life. Fred married with no one attending his wedding except his younger brother John.

Whoo. I can't believe John just kept attending. At some point, you think you'd be like, I'm out. I mean, if they have like an open bar, just go to a fucking wedding. You're the only person there. Hey, why not just get liquered right up? Eh, just sit through the ceremony for half an hour and just enjoy your time. Like I said, Woo, the one guy in the fucking church. Wow.

So several months later, Rose was pregnant again and the family moved into their forever home, twenty five Cromwell Street. This was a three story house, and to help make some extra money, the family lived on the ground floor and rented out the other bedrooms. But that summer, right after she'd given birth to her second daughter, May June, Rose found another way to make some extra money as well.

And that ends is where the story A bit for today? Wow, thanks, all right, cool a bit. Well, that was fucking shitty. Okay, the podcast has already been probably an hour. We got to stop and go to part two.

Right when she's about to hit the fast no kidding, Yeah, I'm sorry.

Also, I was really looking forward to you saying Yeah, they got a new house and they were making some extra money. So Fred decided to have a glory hole in the house where he did some d sucking.

No, he had peep holes, he had cool to watch things cool, but he did not have any glory holes.

Wow, fucking Fred, I hate this guy. Yeah, what an absolutely.

Okay. I was gonna say, like Rose is not much better, and she is not at all. But the thing is like she was very young too, and so say if she had maybe gone with someone that was a better influence on her. Yeah, it could have been totally different for her, right, So it's but she ended up with Fred and he was probably the worst possible influence you could ever have.

And yeah, it hits the fan. But the same thing could be said about Fred too, not that I'm defending him, just playing devil's advocate here. If he found a woman who is good for him to get him out of these tendencies, yeah, he could have been a good person too, that's true. But I mean, like you said, she was quite a bit younger, so that puts him more in that driver's seat. But they are definitely not the couple for the individuals for each other, because I.

Think everyone technically has some good in them, right, you would help, but then different circumstances and situations can just bring the absolute worst out in you. Yeah, and true carries forward for like the rest of your life.

So, and it's how individuals. There's certain circumstances behind everything. There's exceptions to every rule, but it is how individuals choose to deal with these things. A lot of the times, can choose to stand against it. You can choose to be something different, or you can go the easier path and decide, hey, I'm going to fulfill my fucking desires of incest and bestiality and beating individuals, even though you know it's not fucking right. Oh yeah, oh yeah.

No, like all these disgusting people, there there is something inside them that knows what they're.

Doing is wrong. Yeah, for sure, to some degree some people, unless lesser than others to be fair, unless it's also.

A mental illness too that is preventing them from realizing, well that has happened.

That's what I mean, to some degree or another, right, some much less. But someone like Fred, he knows exactly what he's doing. Oh yeah, he's freaking nasty. He's making the choice to do these things. So he was brought up in a very terrible situation as a kid, not his fault whatsoever. No, now he knows the things he's doing is wrong, especially considering he went through a court process where he's like, isn't everybody having incestual relationships? Am

Then he brought other people into them too, because the thing is they went about choosing they knew what they were doing was wrong, because they did go about choosing people that wouldn't necessarily be missed or wouldn't necessarily be noticed that they were missing right off the bat. So that right there was like, yeah, you know, you know you're being selective, you're being secretive, like you know what you're doing is wrong, being.

Very methodical about it. Which, yeah, really.

Fucking Fred, fucking Fred, So you get to endure fucking Fred Part two next week.

Wow, Well, thank you for ending it on that note right where shit was getting good or horrifying, however you want to look at it. You're welcome. It's a good job so far. I know how many emails are we going to get like you. I can't believe you're good fish. I imagine there's going to be. It's my job. It's just gonna make you tune in next week. That's my job. That's true. I can't even get to know what it's going to be. You're mating making me wait a fucking

Oh my gosh, I know when I'm always the one that lots of times does the part twos. I do more part twos you do. I have some other part twos coming down the line that I want to do too, so but they're fun.

It's kind of fun. Sometimes it is fun, but it's like fuck because.

You get to you get to deeper dive into the cases and like, honestly, this I'm still missing shit in this case. Like even by doing two episodes, like I'm still not covering everything. Oh yeah, you could probably do like five on this this case. It's ginormous.

So well, I mean, it's just we're in a day and age where it's like, oh, new fucking season of this show just came out. Let's binge the next twelve episodes and learn it all right now and get to indulge. We're not in a society anymore. We're made to fucking wait for ship.

But just okay, okay, just go back to when you were a kid you watched your favorite show and you had to like wait for it to come out the following week, and how freaking excited you were that it was like here and it was like the best day ever and you had something to look forward to, and it.

Was like, yes, okay, okay, I can relate to that.

Just go back to that feeling. That's what I'm That's what I'm doing.

For because I would literally run down my driveway to catch my show after school.

I know we need more feelings like that because we're in a day and age where yeah, you can just consume whenever you want, however you want, and there's not really any just like excite, enter like looking forward to things as much as there.

Used to be too chee. So I'm just doing that for you. Wow, You're welcome. Way to really try and paint yourself in the best like possible in the shitty situation. You did a good job. I'll give you that. I mean, everyone just going down memory lane and now they're just like wow, yeah, like you know what, that's okay. We do need this. Wow. Yeah, that was really good. I props to you. That was you did really good on the episode two. You did really good so far. I

M hm.

We got Instagram, we got Facebook, we got a website, you name it. There's a whole slew of stuff in our description down below for this podcast. Check it out if you want. If not, you're here too, and that's what's really important. So thank you so much for your support. One way or another, you mean the world. Yeah, we love that you're here. We appreciate it and keep doing it in until next Tuesday when you're making us wait for part two. You're welcome, I already said, and stay wicked,

Ok?

Now it feels right, it feels awkward, now it feels forced. Do it you got this. I'm gonna do the long why Okay ready yeah, stay wicked.