On January twenty first, twoenty twenty three, a quiet hospital room in advent Health, Daytona Beach became the center of a heartbreaking and deeply complex tragedy. Ellen Gilland, a seventy six year old woman from Florida, had just shot and killed her husband, Jerry Gilland, a man she had loved
for over half a century. The couple had made a suicide pact after his health took a severe turn for the worse, But when the moment came, Ellen managed to end her loving husband's misery, but couldn't follow through with taking her own life. Instead, she found herself in a four hour standoff with police, holding a gun and overcome with grief and fear. This is the heartbreaking story of Ellen and Jerry Gilland.
And my name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked.
And Grim, a true crime podcasting. The following material Audience listener, Happy Spring.
Oh yeah, yesterday right was the first official day.
The first day of spring.
And and it snowed here?
It did it snowed? I mean that's Canada for you. Wamp wamp got the weather up here.
But at least we know there's an end, an end in sight.
Yeah, we get a short window of summer up here. But yeah, and then as soon as I mean September rolls around, then it gets cold again and we're right back to it. At least for us. I don't know any know.
Where you guys live, I would say more so October September is usually pretty nice up here.
Well, it does get nice, but you start getting frost in the evenings and stuff, you know, leave.
Your chair changing.
So yeah, yeah, enjoy it while it lasts, because winter will be right back on your doorsteps.
Yesh, it hasn't even ended, Ben, you're already anticipating next window.
Winter has ended because it's the spring. Now. I'm just saying, just warning you, just you know, enjoy it.
I don't know. I always think it's funny springs here, but like where we live, I don't know, it doesn't really correspond. I always feel like springs a little bit later. Officially.
Well, you see all those videos of like spring break parties on like beaches and stuff, and people are in bikinis and doing shots, and we're like still putting on our jackets and winter boots, trudging through snow.
No we're not, though, we put our winter jackets away a long time ago, which I think was a mistake. I saw someone wearing shorts just yesterday or the day before at the grocery store.
Yeah, but it's still cold out there.
We still have jackets, and we just like freeze our butts off for a little bit because we're done with this.
I was wearing a wool cloak walking the dogs this morning.
That's because you like your wool cloak.
I do like my wool cloak. I have a if you know your cloaks, I have a ruwana cloak and I love it.
Yeah, and he walks around in our yard like that.
Fuck yeah I do.
Yeah, it's kind of awesome.
I feel like I'm off heading to you know, the Lonely Mountain or something like that from the Shy or maybe I don't know.
Gotta love it with your too husky say.
Yeah. Anyways, I think we should get into this story right away. This is quite the tail and happened quite recently in fact, and is just recently within the past few months being resolved.
Okay, well, yeah, you did tell me a little bit about it, but really nothing more than the intro. Even the intro had a bit more than I knew, and it's this is gonna, I feel, be a heartbreaking one.
This is very much a heartbreaking one. And it's got a little bit of controversy around it as well, because there's like, well, what do you do in a situation like that if you are put in that situation? And what do you do if you are the authorities in that situation? And well, of course we have our answers and what actually happened, but what you think might be completely different. So it is a little bit controversial. There's people on both sides of the coins and what they
think should and should not have happened. But we'll go through this and we'll see where we're at.
Okay, let's hear it.
So this story hit headlines and it may may have seemed like a shocking act of violence, but Ellen, to her, it was something else entirely. It was a promise, a heartbreaking last act of love for the men that she spent fifty three years with, fifty three years by his side and Jerry, I mean, he was terminally ill, suffering from severe health complications and had begged her to help him end his life. In Ellen's eyes, she was granting him his last and final wish gosh. Now, Ellen's story
is one of love, loss and desperation. She and Jerry build life together from their teenage years, through marriage, health struggles, and the challenges of aging. Their journey led to a moment neither of them had ever imagined. Now, Ellen Gillen's life started far from the headlines in the courtrooms. Now, one thing, before I really get into this, I want to tell you that most of the research actually came
from Ellen herself. So there is a video on YouTube where she stands and addresses the courtroom and she tells a bit of her story, who she is and how she got to the situation she found herself in. So what I'm telling you is my interpretation coming directly from her. So I listened to her talk, and this is what we have, okay. So Ellen was born in Iowa in nineteen forty six, the daughter of you know, a typical
middle class American family. When she was just three years old in nineteen forty nine, her parents packed up their lives and moved to Ormond Beach, Florida, looking for new opportunities. Her father was a building contractor, working hard to construct homes in a growing Florida town, while her mother was a teacher and elementary school principal, instilling the value of education in their children. Now Ellen grew up and in nineteen fifty four, her youngest sister would be born, completing
the family. In nineteen fifty six, when Ellen was ten years old, the family relocated once again, this time to winter Park, Florida, where she would spend the rest of her childhood. And there they met. Ellen and Jerry met as young teenagers in the eighth grade, attending middle school in winter Park, Florida. Together over the years, they developed a close friendship, sharing classes, conversations, and everyday school life together.
Now throughout middle and high school, they remained good friends, but nothing more. Life took them in different directions after graduation, and eventually, like many, they just simply lost touch. Now Ellen attended Winter Park public schools at the time and excelled all through her studies, and later she enrolled in
Rolling College, a private liberal arts school. She had a creative side, and after finishing at Roland, she pursued her artistic interests at Wringling School of Art in Sarasota, Florida, where she spent two years studying Ellen's early years were shaped by a strong work ethic and a love for learning, values that would stay with her all throughout her life. In nineteen sixty four, during the Christmas season, Ellen and Jerry just so happened to bump in each other by
happenstance at winter Park Mall. Now, they were both in their late teens, and something about that moment changed things. They started dating a little bit, you know, casually at first, then a little bit more seriously as time went on. The relationship had a slow and steady foundation built on years of friendship from the past and you know, deep understanding. But life had other plans. In nineteen sixty four, Jerry was sent to Vietnam, serving as a clerk typist in
a Joint Air Force and Army commander office. Now, while he wasn't in direct combat, his role was important. He handed paperwork from high ranking officials and had access to key personnel. This connection would prove life saving when Ellen's brother Jean, who was also in Vietnam, was in danger
of being left behind. See Jane was a ranger who had been wounded and was due to rotate back to the USA, but due to a paperwork error, he was overlooked, and he wrote home, telling his family that he might not make it out alive.
Oh my goodness.
When Ellen's mother heard this, she immediately reached out to her daughter, desperate for help, and Ellen in turn told Jerry, who used his position to track down Jane's orders and personally walked them through the system. Because of Jerry's actions, Jane was able to return home safely.
Okay, that's awesome.
After Jerry's service in Vietnam, the two knew they didn't want to spend any more time apart.
I know, I was like, that will do it?
Eh. In nineteen sixty nine, they got married and started their life together. Officially, this is honestly something that should be fucking turned into a movie. Their life seems like a romance novel. And I'm not talking like one of those hot and steamy ones. I'm talking like, just like a beautiful story for the thing, you know what I mean?
That does like I mean he went about saving her brother right, and then now they're like, okay, we're in.
Well and not only that, how many Hallmark movies can you think of and name off the top of your head. You probably don't even have enough fingers that have people who knew each other in high school kind of liked each other a little bit and then they bump into each other in a mall.
Yeah, well wasn't it at Christmas too?
Yeah?
Yeah, so there you go, like.
Just saying this should like Hallmark get on this.
I also have to just point out to I don't know, you said, you were talking about how they the family's relocated right and like a few times, and how they start their life and stuff restart their life. I kind of love that. I don't feel like that is something people really do so much anymore.
No, I don't think so. I think many people will relocate prior to ever starting their life at all, prior to having roots set then.
But I think it's just this world. It's hard to do that, like to get a mortgage and stuff in a different city per se, It's not always like the easiest.
Right, So yeah, ain't that the truth? You have to prove you know, job opportunities and income prior to getting a more hit new towns.
You can't really just like start over as easy and maybe as back then.
So yeah, now, over the next fifty three years, they built this you know, full love, full life of love. Jerry was known for his kindness, as humor, and generosity, and Ellen saw him as her rock throughout all of life's ups and downs. Now Jerry had a position for or sorry, a passion for cooking and woodworking, often making beautiful handmade boxes and even crafting port swings you know, one to sit outside their home. Though they never had children,
they built a life centered around each other. Ellen's career path was anything but ordinary. She didn't follow a single path, but instead carved out of life filled with creativity and independence and also adaptability. Over the years, she worked in professional photography labs, managed managed a Walden book's retail store, and even ran her own Foliage nursery. Whether it was arts, books or plants. Allen seemed to have a knack for
diving into new ventures and making them work no matter what. Meanwhile, Jerry took a different route. He was a skilled tradesman working in construction for a company that specialized in installing high purity stainless steel piping for computer and pharmaceutical industries. His work took him all over the country, and Ellen often traveled with him, sharing in the experience going on the road. But as they got older, they began thinking
about their future, particularly retirement. With Jerry's job requiring constant travel, Ellen realized she needed a more stable career with some more benefits. She had always been interested in education, and since she'd already had a degree, she decided to return to school in her fifties to specialize in Exceptional Students Education or ESE, which that in itself is pretty awesome going back to school in your fifties.
I honestly love this couple so far. I'm just like so obsessed with them.
Fair enough so balancing work in night classes, Ellen earned her master's degree in special education from Nova South Southeastern University. In nineteen ninety seven, she landed a job as an ees teacher at Mount Dora Middle School. She later also taught at Mount Dora High School and dedicated over fifteen years helping students with learning and behavioral disabilities before retiring finally in twenty thirteen. By the time they settled into their later years, Ellen and Jerry had built a full
and busy life. They had traveled, they'd worked hard, hard, and planned for a stable future with each other by their side. But what they couldn't have planned for was a health crisis that would turn their world upside down. As much as Ellen and Jerry had built a life of love and stability, time brought challenges that neither could have ever foreseen. Health issues, family losses, and natural disasters piled up, making their life later years more difficult than
they had ever expected. Ellen had faced serious health struggles from a young age. In fact, she was even diagnosed with cancer earlier in her life, forcing her to undergo a hysterectomy, which is the reason why they were never able to have children. Later in life, she learned that she carried the brack of one gene, or the BRCA one gene. It's a mutation which puts her at very
high risk for breast and ovarian cancer. That risk became devastatingly real when her younger sister died from ovarian cancer, and years later her older sister also lost the battle with cancer too.
Oh my gosh.
In addition to cancer, Ellen suffered from osteoporosis, a condition she inherited from her father and grandmother. It made her bones brittle and fragile, leading to frequent fractures throughout her life. Over the years, she had been hospitalized more than a dozen times. For broken bones. Her medical history included a replaced left hip, replaced right knee, metal rods and both femurs, a pin in her right hip, bone to bone pain in her left knee, you name it. She had lots going on.
Yeah, that is a lot, But.
That wasn't all. Ellen also battled type two diabetes. She also battled COPD sleep apnea. I don't know if I can pronounce this one, but you're going to do my best. Sojourns syndrome, and high cholesterol. Daily life became a struggle, and she often relied on a walker to get around. As if her own health challenges weren't enough, loss continued to follow her. Her brother Jean, who Jerry had helped save in Vietnam, later died from complications related to agent
orange exposure. By the time twenty twenty two arrived, Ellen had lost both her sisters and her brother.
Yeah, I was just like, that's all her siblings, isn't it.
Yes. Her only remaining close family member was her niece, and by then Jerry was all she had left oh Man. Then, in late twenty twenty two, disaster struck once again. A hurricane flooded their home, damaging or destroying many of their belongings. They lost furniture, legal documents, financial documents, Ellen's personal art portfolios. You know, powered what's the word I'm looking for machinery. Maybe machinery isn't the word, but like powered wheelchairs and stuff,
you know, things to make their life. I'm trying to think.
Of medical assistance, yes.
Medical assisting stuff. I can't think of the word. Why can't I think of the word. You guys know what we're talking about, Like powered wheelchairs, you know, motorize things or whatever for help their health. They're aging exactly now. The stress from the hurricane left Ellen deep deeply anxious, triggering panic attacks even just whenever it rained. The couple had to move into temporary housing and struggling to rebuild their lives, while Jerry was now declining in health as well.
Holy shit, Oh, their life was like is so magical. But then there's also now as they're aging, it just seems kind of shitty. I know, dang, they don't deserve that.
Yeah. So for years Ellen and Jerry were there, supporting each other through every single hardship they faced, But as Jerry's condition worsened, Ellen found herself in an unthinkable position. She was beginning to watch the man that she loved suffer with absolutely no hope of recovery. For most of his life, Jerry was a strong and capable man. He had always been relatively healthy, working physically demanding jobs well
into adulthood, but after retirement things started to change. Jerry gained a significant amount of weight, which led to type two diabetes and atri fiblleration, a heart condition that causes an irregular and often dangerously fast heartbeat. He also developed a hernia, which required surgery, but during that operation, doctors made a terrifying discovery. Jerry had an aortic aneurism, a
dangerous bulge in the main artery of the heart. He underwent surgery to repair the aneurism, but during that procedure, doctors discovered a second, smaller aneurism located even closer to his heart. At first, he recovered well, but his body became fragile and one health issue seemed to lead to another. Then in December of twenty twenty two, Jerry's health took a sudden and devastating turn. He became seriously ill and was admitted to intensive care at Advent Health in New
Samira Beach, Florida. From there, he was transferred to the Hospital Rehabilitation Unit in Ormond Beach on January first, twenty twenty three. At first, Ellen and Jerry they remained hopeful despite his condition. Jerry was talking and could even eat soft foods. His tracheotomy tube used to help him breathe was supposed to be removed soon a major step towards recovery. Physical therapists work with him and trying to help him stand, you know, beside his bed in the hospital, things like this.
But after just a few weeks, things started to go wrong. Jerry developed a severe bed sore, causing excruciating pain. He became weaker instead of stronger, losing his ability to stand. The physical therapy team stopped coming as often, and eventually they stopped coming at all. The tracheotomy tube, which was supposed to be removed, remained in place. Jerry, who had once been hopeful, began to lose faith that there would ever be a day where he could leave the hospital.
He told his brother Sam that he wouldn't make it out alive, and Ellen, who spent twelve to fourteen hours a day at his bedside, watched helplessly as her husband deteriorated right before her eyes.
Dang, it almost seems like they gave up on him. But I guess they're like the rehabilitation team. There was just nothing else, nothing they could be doing, and how he got like was seeming more healthy.
Exactly. You can only rehabilitate those who are on the path to rehabilitation, right, Yeah. Like, for example, if you have, say a dying limb, your leg is dying for whatever reason. You know, circulation's going, You're not going to learn to rewalk. If your limb is still dying, you need, you know, to have that limb get better or amputated to learn to walk without it. Yah, there's steps to take before learning to walk again, you know what I mean, right, Yeah,
So desperate to find help. I mean there was of course questions, you know that they had and everything, but they're doing their best. They're desperate to find help. They're talking to nurses, talking to doctors, trying to figure it out, and Ellen just threw it all, refused to leave his bedside, and despite her efforts, Jerry just still kept getting worse. By mid January, Ellen had come to the heartbreaking realization her husband wasn't getting better, he was getting worse, and
Jerry was growing weaker and more depressed each day. By mid January twenty twenty three, Jerry was giving up any sort of hope. The man who had spent his life working, traveling, and building a future with his wife was now bedridden. He was in pain and unable to stand. The tracheotomy tube, which doctors had initially said could be removed, seemed like it was never going to be. He couldn't eat solid foods anymore, he couldn't move freely, and he become a
shadow of the man that he once was. Day after day, Ellen just sat there watched, praying, but her husband just grew weaker and more hopeless. He started telling her and his brother Sam that he wasn't going to make it out, and then one of the hardest conversations came. The conversations turned from you know, I'm not getting out of here, and it turned to Jerry begging Ellen to help him end his life. At first, Ellen didn't believe it. There
were other options, right, There's got to be had. They tried everything, but from their perspective, the hospital staff just wasn't listening to her concerns. And Jerry's condition it wasn't improving. She didn't seem to trust the system anymore. She later testified that no one ever talked to her about hospice or even comfort care, which might have provided an alternate ending to Jerry's life, but instead she and Jerry were left feeling isolated and just out of options. After two
days of discussions, Ellen gave in. On January twenty first, twenty twenty three. She left the hospital and drove back to the rental house that they'd been staying in since the hurric Jerry had always owned a thirty eight caliber Revolver, but it had been damaged by floodwaters when their home was destroyed. He told Ellen where to find it, and she took it, the gun and bullets to a gun
shop to make sure it was still functional. The workers checked it over and confirmed that with a little cleaning, it would fire just fine. That same day, Ellen sat at a computer and typed a suicide.
Note, Oh my Goodness.
She later said she hadn't originally planned to write one, but felt that she should say something before carrying out the plan that they had concocted. She then returned to the hospital carrying a gun and a fresh box of bullets. When she was back in Jerry's room, they talked one last time about what they were about to do. Jerry was supposed to do it himself. However, he was too weak to even hold the gun. He loaded it himself,
but he couldn't lift it off his chest. And that's when Ellen realized she would have to pull trigger for him.
Okay, because it's not like it's it's not the smallest of guns, right, It's a pistol, it's a it's a revolve, a revolver. Oh, it is, okay, So he's like really weak at this.
Point, then yes, it would be just like a couple pounds, like maybe two pounds or something like that. Man, And yeah, he can't he can't lift it off his chest.
And I just also have to say, like she herself has so much health issues too, right, and like I can't imagine her watching her husband.
Just fade away.
Yeah, is any good for her? Right either in her stress and stuff?
Like dang, definitely not now. Upon this realization, she took a deep breath and one last time she hesitated. According to Ellen, she held the gun behind Jerry's ear, but for a moment She pulled it away and asked him, are you sure. Jerry didn't speak. Instead, he placed his hand on her arm and pushed the gun back towards his head.
Oh my gosh.
A second later, she pulled the trigger. The sound of the gunshot rang through the hospital, but for Ellen, the world had gone completely silent. Jerry was now gone. The man that she loved for over five decades lay lifeless in front of her. She had promised him that she would follow soon after, but that this would be what they did together, their final act in their relationship. But as she sat there in that hospital room, her hands shaking, she just couldn't find the will to do it herself.
She placed the gun on the bedside, then picked it back up. She wanted to finish what they had planned, but she just couldn't do it. And that's when a nurse walked in. At first, the nurse thought a piece of equipment had fallen in the bed and that's what was sitting there, But when he saw Jerry motionless and Ellen sitting there, he froze. He realized what that piece of equipment was. Ellen, overcome with grief, waved the gun
in his direction and told him leave me alone. The nurse backed out of the room and sounded the hospital alarm. Within minutes, hospital security guards arrived at the door, cautiously looking inside. Allan was still sitting there, crying and holding Jerry's hand, and she shouted at them, I have a gun, go away now. They of course retreated and called police,
and they arrived very soon after. Police quickly realized this wasn't just a crime scene, it was a hostage situation at this point, as she was hold up with Jerry's remains in that room and for the next four hours, negotiators tried to convince Ellen to put the gun down and surrender peacefully, but Ellen was still in a state of shock. She didn't trust what police were telling her, as they were telling her that they were able to get Jerry a funeral if she cooperated, but she just
didn't believe them. And by this time hospital staff had evacuated nearby patients and the floor was in lockdown. Officers stood outside the room, ballistic shields raised, waiting for an opportunity to end the standoff. Now, Ellen, she was just in grief. She wanted to spend last moments with her husband in peace. She was in shock, she didn't know what she was doing.
In all honesty, I know, I feel like what she had envisioned or thought this process would be like, it didn't end that way.
No. Now. At one point, Ellen considered shooting herself once again, and she later recalled putting the gun to her temple, but realized that as she pulled the trigger, she would fall onto the floor. To quote her, I wasn't thinking clearly. I spent the last forty years being careful not to fall on the floor.
Man.
So her body was telling her, if you do this, you're going to fall on the floor. Yeah, And that was again every instinct that.
She had because her bones are so brittle, right, yes.
Yeah, In that moment, she set the gun down just for a second to adjust her chair. That was the opening that the police were waiting for. As soon as Ellen reached for the gun again, officers threw in a flash bang grenade into the room. A loud, disorienting explosion designed to stun her went off. So if you don't know flash bang grenades, it's a grenade. It's completely harmless, but it's just a stunning sound and stunning light, so it blinds. It basically takes away many of your senses
for a few minutes. Okay, okay, So it's a loud bang and a blinding light. Ellen says she doesn't remember exactly what happened next, but as a flash bang went off, the gun discharged in the room, the bullet went into the ceiling, and officers rushed onto her. She dropped the gun and raised her hands, and she was officially arrested.
One officer swabbed her hands for gunpowder residue, obviously for evidence of a potential murder right while another appallogized for shooting at her because in the chaos when the gun discharged, he too shot, but he shot and just missed her, hitting the floor behind her. They placed her in a wheelchair,
handcuffed her, and took her out of the hospital. The four hour standoff was officially over Allen was booked into the Volusia County Jail and charged with manslaughter with a firearm and multiple counts of aggravated assault with the deadly weapon. Prosecutors originally pursued harsher charges, including first degree murder, but as the case unfolded, they offered a plea deal. In December of twenty twenty four, Ellen pleaded no contest, which
means that she accepts the punishment without admitting guilt. In exchange, prosecutors waived sentencing guidelines, including a mandatory three year minimum for one of the charges, and capped her prison sentence at ten years. So that means that whatever the judge decides a sentence or two, it could not go over ten years, right, Okay. The final sentencing hearing took place on February twenty eighth, twoenty twenty five, under a month ago.
Holy shit. Yeah, I was just like listening to the date and I'm like what Yeah, Oh okay.
Judge Catherine D. Weston made one thing very clear. Ellen wasn't just being sentenced for killing Jerry. She was being sentenced for the trauma she caused others on that day.
And yeah, with like the chaos within the hospital.
Yeah. During the hearing, hospital staff members who had been in the hospital that day gave quite the emotional statements and testimonies. Nurse Hector Aponti, a security officer Corey Jackson. They testified about having a gun pointed at them and
feeling genuinely threatened for their lives. Body cambridge footage. Bodycam footage from swat teams and police officers in the hospital hallways, armed and ready to neutralize a threat if at all possible, showed that it was very clear that Ellen was posing a very real threat, even if she wasn't meaning to.
I just have to say something like, I get that, but I just feel like this day and age, like everyone just if they make everything about them and it wasn't about them, you know, in a sense. But I do get that, it would have been like scary. But I don't think that Helen was a threat to anyone else really per se.
In hindsight, she's not, But at.
The time, I guess it appeared that way.
Well, you have a person who enters a hospital and shoots someone.
She did just kill someone, Yes, and they I guess they weren't aware of like the plan and everything right.
Well, and even if they are aware of this plan and everything, I mean, what's her mental state in after shooting her own husband. Is she going to be so distraught and is she going to know what she's doing? I mean, she was disoriented, she was in shock. Yeah, there's a potential that, I mean, she may have accidentally even shot one of the nurses coming in, just because she was so scared she didn't trust the nurse staff. If they approached her just wrong, she could have even
accidentally pulled the trigger. Okay, so there is a byproduct of what she's doing.
This story is just so frustrating because it's like, I don't know, I get you, we know the whole storyline and everything. So it seems so frustrating that like it's come to this.
I guess I get you. Thought I'm going to talk about that at the end of the story here, So we're almost there, and we'll break it down a bit in our thoughts. So Ellen also spoke in the courtroom, giving a detailed account of her life, marriage, and the heartbreaking events that led to her husband's death. And as I mentioned, her testimony in court was the primary the primary material that I used for research and writing this.
When the prosecutor pressed about how her actions affected others, Ellen responded, quote, I will regret many of my decisions
for the rest of my life. In the end, Judge Weston acknowledged that Jerry had been a willing participant in the suicide pact, but she also emphasized that Ellen's decision to bring a gun into a public hospital endangered others, she handed her down the following sentence, she was sentenced to three hundred and sixty six days in prison, twelve years of probation and community service.
Okay, that's actually not really that harsh of the of a penalty.
Hey yeah, there was one final piece to her sentence. She was also required to write an apology letter to the hospital staff and officers that were affected that day.
Okay.
With the case officially closed, Ellen was left to serve her sentence and to live a life with the weight of everything that had happened that day. Ellen and Jerry's story is one of very deep love and unbearable suffering and impossible choices, impossible choices that had to be made. For over five decades, they built a life together. They navigated careers, health struggles, personal loss, you name it. But on Jerry's final days, that life became a prison of pain,
can became a prison of isolation and hopelessness. He no longer saw a future outside of that hospital bed or those walls, and Ellen could no longer bear to watch him suffer. What happened in that hospital room on January twenty first, twenty twenty three wasn't the act of a violent criminal. It was the desperate decision of a grieving wife who saw no other way out. This case raises difficult and uncomfortable questions. Was Ellen truly guilty of a
crime or was she honoring her husband's final wish? Should law round assisted suicide be reconsidered for cases like this? Did the hospital fail Jerry by not presenting hospice or palliative care as an option. No matter where one stands, there's no denying that this was a tragedy for every single person involved, from the staff and the officers caught in the chaos to Ellen, who lost absolutely everything that day.
Many debate whether or not if justice truly prevailed in this case, or if the system failed a grieving woman who had already lost it all. In the end, Ellen Gillen will serve her time both in prison and under probation, but the real punishment is something far worse the system could never hand her. She will live out her remaining years without the one person she built her life around. And that is the story of Ellen and Jerry Gillens.
That is just shit. Yeah, it is holy heck, there's so much there, so much I think, Okay, so my thought is, Yeah, I guess the fact that it was in the public like a public hospital is not good because I initially was like it wasn't about them. But so if they had done this, say at home, you know, it wouldn't have been like as big of a problem probably or an issue for like so many others.
Yeah, most likely, I mean there still would have been like officers and stuff involve because they probably would have been a gunshot report officers arriving that sort.
Of well, honestly, if they were If she was at home and had that time to like process and grieve, I bet you anything, like she probably would have carried through with like the pack that they had made.
I think potentially it was just.
Like after she did it, I feel like it was so chaotic, she didn't have the time she needed to like process like her what her next steps were or I don't know. But also the fact that they I do feel like the hospital failed them big time too.
I agree, because she's.
Just there for like you said, thirteen fourteen hours a day, fucking just watching her husband deteriorate, and no one like they're not because hospice and stuff is like it can be a beautiful place because he wouldn't have probably been in pain, right, and it's quite a bit of a nicer like environment, and I don't understand why that wasn't was brought up. Yeah, unless there was like no room for him to go there, because I know lots of times hospice they do get full.
But even still that should be something discussed. You know, there's people who do like an at home hospice situation.
Even well, yeah, and even the hospital themselves I know, can do like they should have at least had him so that he wasn't like in pain. If he was like this was his end of his life, there's ways to make him not suffer really.
Exactly, and he was clearly in pain he pushed the gun to his head.
But there is also like there is I don't know because we have it here. I don't know if it's like everywhere, but an assisted suicide program yeah, but I know it takes some time and like there's paperwork and shit and which I have to like what's the word you have to apply well, be accepted kind of thing, right, Like I don't think they accept everyone.
Well, yeah, because you have to apply for it and then you go through it and they determine your situation, and they can turn you away or accept you, which I think is honestly bullshit. Don't get me wrong, I'm not pro suicide, but if someone's going to do it, they're going to fucking do it. And if you decline them, you put them into a situation like this where it now involves other people, whether it's finding them, whether it's you know, in a public space, all those sort of situations.
My personal and don't get me wrong, there's probably plenty of holes in this thought process, but my personal perspective on how this should be handled is someone goes to a hospital says I want to commit suicide. The hospital takes them in for I don't know if it say forty eight hours. You stay at the hoste little for forty eight hours, You fill it your little application, You talk to a couple psychiatrists. Okay, they say, okay, if
they approve you, which they I think they should. If at the end of those forty eight hours you still want to do it, they approve you and they set a date with you, they say, oh yeah, he.
Was of sound mind, still right, it was, and.
In his situation, he's like, I'm going to do it today. Okay, this time today, we will assist you. And some people might be like, you know what, I'm not certain. Let's do thirty days from now. Okay, Well you're like not on your fucking deathbed suffering, you can, you know, go back to work and come back and talk to us in thirty days. I think there needs to be a more accepting way to help people. I really do, because, as the judge even said, this isn't about just about
Jerry's death. It's about the effect on the public.
Yeah.
Yeah, And if you decline someone from an assisted death, you are pushing it onto them and the public. That's the system doing that. Dang.
Well. I just also like I'm just still processing everything.
But like even him having the bed, like you said, he had beds like quite bad bed sores, right, yes, which is it's well I believe it's a lack of care, yes, because well, especially if you're in hospice, they have like I know, there's like different kind of beds that like make it airflow kind of come if you're not very mobile, and then the car aids and stuff are supposed to be moving you quite regularly, like so that you don't get bed sores.
Yeah, now it's still possible to happen.
It is, it is totally yeah, but it is.
It's at least a sign of potential neglect in the hospital.
Yeah, for sure, because even as you're reading that, at times it seemed it did seem like they were just like there and not getting the care they needed or or the options they needed, and it was just like there, he was just like rotten away in there. Yeah, like he was in like his own little he died like in his own little jail cell. Really essentially like worse than really Yeah, oh gosh, I don't know.
So I honestly think that for someone who's seeking to find a different end at their own will, I think there needs to be assistance for that. And I don't think that there is enough assistance for it yet in this world. I think there are better ways to handle it. What I don't know. I can come up with a couple different things off the top of my head, but I guess that I guarantee you there's some holes in
that thought process. I clearly am not the one to be making that call, but I think someone somewhere needs to actually figure it out and put it into legislation and help someone like that.
They had no idea there was any other options. Really, this is what they thought was the best.
Right in a hospital situation like that, Why couldn't Ellen have gone to you know? A doctor had a conversation been like, look, this is our situation. I'm gonna fucking bring a gun, right, And he's like, don't do that. We have medication for it. I mean, you can book and just go put your your pet down. Why can't you book and go do the same sort of thing?
Do you hear that? So often people think we treat our pets better than like humans and stuff.
So why can't the doctor be like, okay, here, you know what. This is the only thing I can think off the top of my head, So I'm just gonna use it. Here's some cyanide pills. You know what, you and your husband, you know what. We'll bring in another little cot you can lay in beside him, and in an hour you guys will be together forever.
Well yeah, but not to necessarily give it to her though, Well right, so.
I mean, why why not?
Well she isn't really on her deathbed. I don't know, shit, this is so hard. I'm I just here like they had such a beautiful life and it's just such a shitty end to it. Really, it's a terrible end.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not vouching for Ellen who have taken her life, but that's there's just got to be a line in the sand somewhere for who gets it and who doesn't and how we treat that. And I don't know that. There's got to be a better way to figure it out.
I know, I mean, I guess I can understand him getting it. If there if he literally is just going to deteriorate more and more, there's nothing that they can do. But like she wasn't in the hospital, I know her health wasn't great, But like that, I don't I don't necessarily know if I could get behind as easy, I guess.
No, I totally understand. And this is a very heavy topic, very heavy topic. I'm aware of that. But who who gets to say? Who does and doesn't get you know, to self delete like that.
Well, I know we had had a conversation at one point, and you people do this at home, they commit suicide, people do all the time, and there's there's absolutely no consequences zero. So this is Yeah, this is this is hard.
Because who's to say that Ellen isn't going to do something to herself. Still, she's the only one who knows truly. Yeah, so if she says, help me do it or I'm going to do it myself, I think, then you know what, Okay, we'll have a small waiting period and if you're still adamant that you will be doing it yourself, then okay.
Because now she has to live with the fact that she like shot her husband. Yeah, I can't imagine that her mental state is great at all here.
Not only that she doesn't have to just live the fact that she shot her husband, she has to live with the fact that she told him she was going with him.
Yeah, and she's not at all gosh, Yeah, this is this is terrible.
So this is Yeah, this conversation at the end here, there's so much hypothetical in it and many things that I mean, I know I've said a couple like strong opinions. My strong opinions are not concrete opinions. There's many things I'm probably not even thinking of. Whether you know how to deal with it or how not to deal with it, why we should or why we shouldn't it's just hypothetical,
just kind of conversation, discussing ideas about it. It's a tough topic and if you are seeking, you know, that solution yourself, we do recommend that you get some help. Talk to someone. That is the first step, one hundred percent. That is the first step. Even if it's like hey and Ellen and Jerry, they should have talked to someone first, right.
Well, yeah, I'm that's why I'm kind of still thinking like Helen still she still had life to live, she did, right, So.
But this falls back to not being able to trust the hospital and then failing the CIS is failing.
These people, Oh yeah, it failed them big time.
And then because of that failure within the system, Allen is now charged.
Damn.
So this is a very heavy story and it's a very very fresh one as well.
Well yeah, and I can't imagine this is anyway how like her husband didn't want want it to go this way whatsoever?
Right, so, no, gosh, but Ellen did she gave up absolutely everything to grant her husband his final wish. And I'll just end it with that. If you guys want to check out our links, our socials, give us your opinion on it. You can shoot us an email, find us Instagram, Facebook. All the stuff is in the description of this podcast. Yeah, let us know your thoughts.
Well, yeah, we should also say I have to say one more thing is that she wasn't like a cool, bloody killer. No, she wasn't like a bad person. Right. We talk about so many cases where people do take other people's lives and just for the joy and shit shit of it. Right, but she was like literally felt this was right and was trying to help her husband, who you know, I felt like he had no other way.
Yeah, she did that with every ounce of good intention, out of love. She did that out of love.
Okay, let's send it that.
Thank you guys for being here, and we'll see you in the next episode and until then, stay wicked.