Want the full experience? Watch this video episode on YouTube. Check the description for the link. This is a HeadGum Podcast. a podcast where me, Nicole Byer, was trying to figure out why I'm still single, even though you could come in a tray. Let it harden and tell me it is paper. My guest today is a New York Times bestselling author, mental health advocate, and creator of the Substack Emotional Support Lady. I keep hearing about Substack and I don't know what it is. You may know her from her.
long-running podcast and YouTube channel just between us. Her latest book, Adieu, I Think, Conversations About Modern Marriage is out. Now I'm excited to dive into the intersections of mental health and relationships. That was so smart. Obviously didn't write this. It's Alison Ruskin. Hi.
Thank you for having me. Thank you for doing this. First of all, what is this lip color? Oh, my. You know what? OK, so when my book came out, I got to be on the news for about a minute and a half. That was very exciting. So I went to Sephora and was like, someone, please.
Please help me. And I got this lip color there. And they were really helpful. And they paired me with a berry lip and then this other lip gloss. And then in the bag, they were like, here's a free sample. And this is the free sample. What brand is it? NARS. I do like NARS. It's very nice. They have a blush called Taj Mahal that upon opening, you're like, this is too orange. This looks sick as hell. But then you put it on and it's just like...
Oh, it's so good. Yeah. And I'm not like a big makeup person on account of I don't know how to do it. But I do love a bold lip. And I've never done this type before, this sort of like orangey nude, but I'm feeling it. You're married. Yes. I do have, okay, I do have like a follow-up that is makeup specific. It wasn't just like out of the blue, but okay.
Male partner? Yes. Does he mind makeup? And when you kiss him, does he get mad about it? Oh, well, I barely. So I'm someone that's like, I want minimal. work for me. So like I get lash lifts and sometimes if I'm feeling wild lash extensions, so I don't have to do it. But I guess with the lipstick and I don't really wear anything on my face, but I guess this lipstick, he won't get mad. No.
No, I think he would prefer if I, I think he likes makeup. Wait, you're not wearing any foundation right now? No. Wow. It's just genetics. That's nice. Yeah, we got very lucky. You did. Thank you. I'm wearing so much makeup right now. But it looks amazing. Thank you.
And you know how to do it. Thank you. I had to learn. Spent enough time in L.A. as a black woman. Makeup bars will fuck you over left and right. So I had to learn. I recently posted a video and someone was like, Nicole looks better natural. And I was like, I'm wearing glasses. lashes and a full face of makeup. Not only concealer, but a foundation on top of it. Like, I was like, I am done. I am contoured. I was like, what do you mean? I'm never natural. That's a lie. If I record from home.
I'm running late and I'm going to be natural. But the reason I ask, this might be a red flag, but I dated a man who he was unfortunately white. No offense. But I would like kiss him and my makeup would get all over him and he would get like. angry he'd be like mad wait something's in my eye you okay i don't know i hate that Okay, I think I got it. Wow, that was really intense for a second just for me. I was scared as well because that can fuck you up.
I was on a date and I was like, my eye. There's something in my eye. That's the danger of wearing lashes. And he was like, go to the bathroom. And I was like, oh, my God. Never occurred to me. Never once occurred to me. Do you think that's a red flag, though, if the person you're kissing gets annoyed with you and won't kiss you after a while? Yeah. Okay. I do. A funny related story is when I first started dating my husband, I had like all of these like red.
pimples like all over around my face and like I normally don't have that I'm lucky and but it was like awful like it was like I looked like I was wearing like I had like a goatee of pimples. And I kept saying to him, this is from your beard. I was like, you have to shave like you are giving me this. And then I kept like very nobly being like, but I like you enough that I shall walk around.
looking like I have a zit goatee. And then I finally went to a dermatologist and it turns out it had nothing to do with him. And I just had perioral dermatitis. That's very funny. That's so funny to be like, it's you. It's you. And I'm so wonderful. I'm a martyr. To stay with you. And he was like, it had never been a problem. I really don't think it's me. And I was like, John, it's you. And then the doctor was like, absolutely not. You need medication.
God, that's so funny. When did you meet your husband? So I met him in February of 2021, which was about... three months out from my broken engagement. So yeah, I've got messy stuff. So how long were you with the previous person before you ended that engagement? Well, I did not end it. He did. I see. We were a bit under two years, but we'd been living together for over a year and had been engaged for six months. And then he was like, I.
Something is missing. Goodbye. And I haven't seen him since. Something is missing. He just said something. He didn't fill in the blank. No, no. Interesting. I think he fell out of love with me. And that's the thing that happens. Did you accept it or did you fight it? So I'm really proud of myself. I fought it for like a few days. Uh-huh. Like I fought it that night and then we had like one FaceTime and one phone call.
But he was so intense during these conversations where he was like, I don't want to give you false hope. We have to move on. I was like, it's been it was like I was like, this happened 20 minutes ago. But. I then didn't contact him really again. I sent like one email about the mail. And then and yeah. And so I just I obviously had hope that he would.
realized that it was the greatest mistake of his life and that he would come back to me, but that it still hasn't happened. So I don't think it's going to. Boy, oh boy. I don't know if I'd have the strength. Well, I've been like, I've been broken up with many of times. The last time I was broken up with, I was like, wait, what? No, what if like we didn't?
And I really wish I had the like. I had never had it before. Really? Yeah. So it was interesting because I was in the middle of working on my first nonfiction book, which was. called Overthinking About You. Available at Barnes & Noble or Borders. I think Borders is closed. Yeah. Whoopsie.
I was working on this book all about the intersection of mental health and romantic relationships. And so I had said like in the book, I was like, yeah, like and if I ever like we ever break up, like I'll be OK. But in my head, I was like, I don't know if that's true. But then I like ended up having to like use all.
of this stuff that I had like been working on and writing about and researching to like help me process my own broken engagement. And so then I literally had to like rewrite the last chapter of the book. That's so funny that you're like, well.
Gotta rewrite. Had a life experience. I watched an Instagram video where it was like, if someone goes, I think we should break up, your response should be, I'm sorry that you want to break up with me, but if you don't want to speak about it, I guess I have to... accept that. And I was like, what? I think you owe it to the person to break up with someone respectfully. I think so too. But if the person's not going to do it.
You can't like pull it out. It was like them being like, if someone has made a definitive choice that was a choice that was made without you. Then you kind of have to just be like, well, all right. I agree. And not like grovel and beg and be like, please tell me, especially if they're being like cold to you. And I was like, I don't know how to do that. Well, something I had to learn was like how to give myself closure. Right. Because. Yes.
Yeah. That's such a wild thing. I simply can't. I need you to know that you treated me poorly. Well, I wrote multiple books about it and I still talk about it four years later. So it's not like I let it go. I constantly am like, I hope you see this. But he definitely doesn't engage with the content at all. But you don't know that. I would put so much money on it. Because I think that he had to just shut off to me. Do you know what I mean? Like, he like…
Like he just like became I became like an annoying co-worker to him. I don't know how that happened. Yeah, it's wild. I couldn't do it. But, you know, people handle things differently. And yeah, but I had to. do something really difficult, which was like, I'm never going to know why I'm never going to have all of the reasons. And I can do this thing where I fill in the reasons with all the things I don't like about myself, or I can just accept that it's over and that.
I have to move forward anyway. And so that was really helpful to not. to not fill in the reasons and know I'll never know. That's so wild because I do that. And that's something I'm working on with my therapist because, okay, do you have an internal monologue that goes all the time?
Yes, and I can't believe some people don't have that. It blows me fucking away. I understand that, yes, science has proven that, but I don't believe it. I don't get it. I have an internal monologue that goes all the time. Sometimes when I'm like listening to people.
My little monologue goes, you didn't catch that last thing because you weren't listening. You have to start listening. And then I've missed more of what they said. And then I'm like, oh, no. And then I have to use context clues to figure out sentences. It's great. It's very noisy up in here. I have a thing where I fill in the blanks with stuff, and then I have to literally stop what I'm doing and stand there and go, what have you made up? And what is true? Yep.
Are you feeling bad about the true thing? Or are you feeling bad about the shit you fucking made up? And I was like talking about this in therapy. My therapist was like, yeah, but at least you got there. She's like, at least you're there and you understand that you're like making things up and you're trying to help yourself not. believe in them i was like yeah but i don't want to stop my fucking day to figure out shit
Well, my whole thing is that like I used to be horrible at relationships and I used to be my worst self. And I did like every stereotype, quote unquote, crazy behavior in the book. And then I like what? Oh, like. I don't know, like in college, I used to like I briefly like hooked up with some guy that like live right next door and I would like check if he was home all the time. Like, that's weird. He didn't like.
that's not okay. I needed to respect that man's privacy. Here's the thing, but like, is he home? I think he was hiding from me. I'm toxic. Yeah. I was like, no, I get it. Is he home? If he's not, like, where is he? Like, I could not. like let people go. I could not like I would rush everything and then like and then like turn people off. Like just like I know what I'm talking about that like you can get better at this because I had to. How? Well.
Okay, I'd love to walk you through this. Okay, so here are some things that we can do. I need to know a little bit more about how you show up in dating to know what to address. Would you say that you're someone that's more anxious, that you're more of the pursuer? I am.
So anxious. Yeah. And I love to pursue. But I like men for the most part. Listen, I don't identify as anything other than Nicole. I'd rather not put labels on it. But yes, usually I'm the pursuer. Okay. And so... is something, when do you feel like you're losing control of how you're showing up?
Losing how I'm showing. You said a lot of stuff that's not really making sense to me. Like, how do you feel like when you look back and you go, oh, I wish I wish I had handled that better or I wish I hadn't jumped to those conclusions. Like, what are those scenarios? About like three months in, I'm always like, let's define this. And every time I'm like, let's define this, the people I've dated have been like, oh, the way I define this is like, oh, maybe I don't believe in monogamy or like.
Hey, I don't know. Thank you. And I think I need to maybe slow down. I don't know. I think you need to do the opposite. I think from date one, you say I'm looking for a long term monogamous partnership. and then they know that's what you want, and then they can either opt in or opt out of that. That's scary, though. Yeah. But also, I guess, not scary because I don't know that person. Exactly. Huh.
So my whole thing is like dating with like intention and productivity. So like being very upfront about what you're looking for and not viewing that as like, I think so many of us like are. like women our age and people socialize as women like we were taught that wanting a relationship and wanting commitment made us seem crazy and insecure and like uh like
Something was missing from us when in reality, just like wanting to be in a relationship is like a totally normal human behavior and something a lot of people want. And so. Any other goal that you have, people are like, go after your goals. Be explicit and open about what you're looking for in your goals, in your career, like in your family, like all these other things. Like, why do we have to?
be like so cagey in relationships, I think it's way better to show up on a date and be like, this is what I'm looking for. Is that also what you're looking for? I'm not saying we start that today because I don't know you. But like, is this like... If this does work out, is that where you were hoping it would lead? And if we have totally different goals for what we would want out of this, then why would we even have a second date? God, that's intense.
What do you want out of life? Do you like your crudo? Which is a new thing I've learned I like. Oh, like the sliced fish? Yes. Yeah, I'm a vegetarian, but I did briefly eat that and it was good. How long have you been a vegetarian? You know, I was a vegetarian 8 to 21. And then I was so unhealthy. I started eating like I would feel bad saying I would eat like dumb animals. So like just like birds and fish because I would feel less.
Guilty. It wasn't right. Birds are so smart. Well, I wouldn't eat like a parrot. I would eat like a chicken. Chickens are smart. I know. I feel terrible about it. And that's why I went back to being full vegetarian. Oh, my God. A couple years ago. I mean, I eat. meat but I love birds no I'm on bird talk now so I'm really into birds as well I love a hummingbird yeah I have a fountain in the front of my house and a bird got sizzled up it was just bones and I don't know what happened to it what?
I think it got too hot and it sizzled up. Oh my God. And I said this before and my friend was like, I think an animal ate it. I was like, and left the bones in a perfectly shaped bird. Maybe they're very good at eating. I don't know. I think it just got sizzled up. Oh, it's terrible. No, yeah. That's a wild thing to say.
Should I say that on a first date? Might as well. I better get sizzled. Well, honestly, yeah, because that's who you are. That is funny. I mean, you are right. Somebody who likes Olive Dish is going to like Olive Dish. Right. Like that's the whole thing is like this idea that we need to like present a different.
Obviously, you don't like trauma dump. You don't be like, and here's every single thing that's ever happened to me in my life on day one. But like the idea of like censoring yourself or not being your full self. What's the point? Because you want someone who likes and appreciates your full self. Yeah, that's right. I have a question. Okay, so the first time you said I love you to your husband was by accident. How does that accidentally happen?
Okay, I love that you know this or whoever did this. My wonderful, wonderful assistant who I love. So we had been dating a couple of months and my parents were in town and it was his first time meeting them. Wait, how many? months were you dating when you met your parents? Like two or three. Yeah. Wild. I'm clear with what I what I want. And that scared off many people, but it doesn't scare off the right person. Well, I get.
Well, yeah. I mean, I was left by my ex-fiance, but, you know, we all get left. Yeah, sometimes we get left. Sometimes that happens. Everyone gets. It's wild to me, anyone who has an experience being left, because it's like it does. It's a big growing experience. Yeah. So.
I was saying goodbye to him at the door of my apartment and my parents were like in my living room. And you know, like I'm someone that just will be like, love you, bye to like my friends and my family. And so I did like one of those where I was like, okay, bye, love you. And then he looked at me. me with his mouth open, like, you got caught, right? And I panicked in the moment. And so I just...
I just threw my hand out to cover his mouth, but then my fingers tucked into his mouth at the same time. And I said, we'll talk about this later. And then I shoved the door. The right one will love it. That's so funny. It was incredible. So what was the conversation later? I think we like had some text exchange kind of poking fun at it. But I knew at this point in my life that he was someone that.
move slower than me and that it wouldn't be right for our dynamic for me to like really say it first on purpose. And so I waited for him to say it and it took about like a week. I love that you're like, and then I had to wait a whole seven days. But younger Allison, like, I could not have handled that. Like, I would have.
been freaking out. I would have been like, do you not feel the same? Like I would have been like, how come you haven't brought this up? Like I would have been from such a place of like assuming the worst, like not understanding that his approach to these things were. different than mine. And I couldn't have like tolerated that. And so I felt proud of myself that I could. I'm proud of you. I would have freaked out.
I've only said I love you to one person. And I looked up how to do it on WikiHow. I love it. And they were like, have I talked about this? Never mind. Anyway, I'm not going to tell you because the listeners already know. But OK, I wrote a letter. I said it to him. He did not say it for a while. Anyway.
So wait, you spent part of your honeymoon with an ex-boyfriend. Why? How? Well, it's funny you mentioned WikiHow because two of my best friends got married in Italy and they asked me to do— What part? Like a Tuscany. That's beautiful. I love it. And they asked me to do a reading about like about laughter or something in there.
like ceremony. And like they were like six people that gave readings. Everyone gave like, you know, like serious normal readings. And then I read a section from WikiHow of how to make a man like fall, how to make a man laugh. That's very funny. Do you remember?
I don't know. It was so bad. Like it was just like not something that would be helpful, but it wasn't. Now I have to look it up. I'm so sorry. God bless. I think one thing was like to do like physical comedy to like move your body in a funny way. How to make a man laugh. I WikiHow so much. I have never done it other than for this goof. Finding your humor. Be silly. Be yourself. Be positive. Matches style. Laugh at his jokes. Oh, yeah. That's so funny. How do I be funny? You laugh at his jokes.
Feed off his humor. Interact with him. Help him be happy in general. Be willing to embarrass yourself. Get physical. Slapstick physical comedy is the only kind of comedy that's been around for all of humanity. Popcorn? Yes, please. It's... Wait, that's so funny. And then laugh at yourself, relax.
That's really funny. I'm glad you read that at someone's wedding. I don't know if it was that exact, but it had sections of that. It was fun. I took a swing. But so they actually, I had met them through my ex-boyfriend. And so after... we broke up. One of the times, you know, we I claim them as friends, like we decided we'd have shared custody. And so I like we broke up probably 10 years ago and I've maintained my friendships. No, not 10 years ago. We broke up.
probably like eight years ago. And I've maintained my friendships with them. And so obviously he was at the wedding too. Was that awkward? No, because this is the thing is like... We dated because we enjoyed each other's company. So then at the wedding, it was like, well, who do I like here the most? Probably this guy that was my boyfriend because we laughed a lot. And his girlfriend is someone who's similar to me because you don't.
date totally different people. Is she similar in physicality or similar in spirit? Kind of both. Not so much in physicality, but like, you know. Like it would make sense that like my ex-boyfriend and his current girlfriend and me and my husband would all get along because we all have like enough similarities to have all dated each other.
That's funny. I love going through a man's Instagram or a person I'm dating's Instagram to see if their ex looks like me. And I don't know why I do that because I'm like... They're an ex for a reason, one. Two, what am I going to do? Fight her if she looks like me? What's the plan, Nicole? I don't know. So... When you were four, you were diagnosed with OCD. Yes. How do you diagnose a four-year-old? What were you doing? That's a weird, wild question.
And it sounds like I'm accusing you of something. Yeah, you sound like you don't believe me. I know. That was really rude. This is like my origin story. Everything I've built will tumble to the ground if you uncover it wasn't true. I actually had something called pandas, which is this thing where if you get strep throat, it can like activate.
like the OCD in your brain. So I had strep throat. And then like a couple of weeks after that, my behavior just like kind of changed overnight where like it was like so obvious something was wrong. My parents thought I might have a brain tumor. Oh, no. And so I was, you know, like. Couldn't touch the floor, washing my hands. So they bled. I told my dad, I need to see a doctor. Something inside of me is making me sad. Like, oh, I like laid down in the road ostensibly to die.
When you were four? Yeah. So, again, I have no memories of this because I was four. But this is what I was told. tracks considering my current life and mental health. And so, yeah. And so my parents were super proactive about it, like, which is the only reason I think I'm alive. And they.
They took me down. I grew up in New York and they took me down to Johns Hopkins to see like a specialist. And I was put on Prozac at four years old, which was like a relatively new drug at the time. And I was put into therapy and I was just, you know, for my whole life. I've just been managing my mental health.
I was really lucky that I had parents that like understood that this was like a sickness rather than just like like a kid. Like what kind of problems can a kid have? That kind of approach. That's really incredible because I feel like OCD is really like. In pop culture movies and shit, it's like showcases like someone like counting or like.
I'm turning the oven on and off, but it's like there's also like voices, right? Or like something's telling you that if you don't do something, something bad will happen. That's how I've heard it explained. Yeah, so what makes it OCD is that there's an obsession and then there's a compulsion. Yes. And so there's something that you're obsessing about. And that's how there can be so many different subsets. Like, you know, there can be harm OCD, scrupulosity of CD, romantic.
relationship OCD. And then the compulsion part is that then you do something to alleviate the discomfort of the obsession. So for me, with like my contamination OCD, it's like, oh no, I'm... gross. Therefore, I must wipe this thing down. Therefore, I must shower. Therefore, I must, you know, take these change these clothes and maybe for something that is like a relationship OCD where the obsession is like, does my partner love me?
enough, then it's the reassurance seeking. It's like, but do you still love me? Why do you love me? How do you know you love me? So like asking for reassurance is a compulsion. So what makes it the OCD is those two parts. There's also. something called Pure O, which people refer to as just the obsessions, but that's a little more.
confusing to me. And a compulsion can also be just something mental that you don't show physically, right? So it might be like, oh, I'm worried this is going to happen. And then you say a certain phrase to yourself over and over, or you do like your compulsion can all be internal. Interesting. How was it dating with OCD? Or how was it dating with OCD? Was it hard? It's definitely difficult for partners to learn.
how I live and to decide if that's a way that they want to live too. You know, it's a tricky thing to navigate. I'm really lucky in that my husband is super understanding and empathetic, but also not a... total pushover when it comes to it. There's a lot of like debate in the community about like if partners should ever accommodate someone's obsessions or compulsions.
You know, if you talk to an exposure and response therapist who's like super, you know, hard line, they'll be like, never give in. Never do what they want because you're just feeding the OCD. And that sounds a little. It's wild. Like I couldn't live like that. Yeah. I take a much more like harm reduction approach to my OCD where like if something is really getting in the way of my values or the life I want to live, then I will fight it. But if it's like me just cleaning.
my phone for the 10th time that day and nobody cares and nobody knows, like, whatever. I definitely had to get better at explaining my OCD to people and to partners. It used to more be just like, you're disgusting. That's disgusting. Why would you do that? Get this off of here. And that's like offensive and rude. And so really understanding how to explain it where it's like. I know that this isn't logical. I know that it's not based on science or rules or things that make sense to you.
you have to understand the distress that it causes me. And so really understanding how to like explain and vocalize the distress that my OCD causes has made it a lot easier, you know, for my husband to understand it and to help me, you know, during. those periods when I really need it I don't have OCD but if you move a pillow I will cry and move it where where it's not supposed to be oh okay interesting that could be an OCD tendency
I don't know. I have ADHD. But I had a friend move a pillow and I like lost my mind. Where was the pillow? On your bed or on the couch? The pillow was on a chair and they put it on the couch. And that's not where it went. That's not where it belongs. Yeah. I have rules in my house. Why would you move it? And then I had a friend who stayed over while I was out of town last week, and he left a towel.
in a place where towels aren't supposed to be left. And I almost started crying. I was like, why would you do this to me? We have to take a break. Calling all listeners. We're conducting an audience survey at gum.fm slash date me. And we want to hear from you so we can keep making content you love.
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wear back. What are your do you have rules about outside clothes on your bed? Absolutely. I do. You can't wear them. Do you change your clothes when you come inside? No, it depends. But I will then if I've worn outside clothes. inside, I'll only sit places that I can then Clorox wipe after. Oh. Yeah. Do you let people wear shoes in your house? No. Do you have a dog? I have two dogs. Do you wipe their feet when they come inside? Yes, I do. That's funny.
Not, I mean, okay, here's why it's funny. Because I don't let people wear shoes in my house, but I do not wipe Clyde's feet when he comes in from outside unless he's stepped in something wild. And then when I like really think about it, I'm like... So I let this little wild animal stomp all over my house, but I won't let a friend keep their shoes on. Well, what's interesting, right, is like how, you know, like.
love can overpower things. So like the rules of my dogs are very different than the rules I have for everyone else. So it's like. I make this joke where it's like, yeah, because the rules make no sense. Like it's a mental illness. It's not meant to make logical sense. Science isn't like, yeah, Allison, you really figured this out. It's just like me and whatever I've decided is the rule. And so my dogs get.
a real pass. But I will say I have a much harder time bringing my dogs places than I did before the pandemic. I just had one dog before the pandemic, Sugar, and I used to bring her everywhere with me. And I would like wipe her feet in her butt, but I wouldn't like wipe her whole body or like, you know, feel like she was contaminated. But now.
the pandemic made my OCD much worse. And so I'm slowly easing myself back into being able to take my dogs more places without feeling like they need to shower after. I feel like the pandemic has really... increased everyone's mental illies. I have become more anxious. I was like, in therapy, she was like, let's hold some space for your anxiety. And I was like, but I never used to be this anxious. I don't want to hold this space because then I'm acknowledging that I have it.
And then my ADHD is, like, even worse. Like, I find it so hard. Like, I used to, like, read a book. Yeah. And I have a hard time reading a book. Like, Brett Easton Ellis had a new book come out, I think, last year, and it's still on my shelf. And I still... I haven't read it even though I love Brett Easton Ellis. That's funny to me that you love him, but I do.
A problematic figure. But Glamorama is an incredible book. Have you ever read it? I don't think I've read. I don't think I've only seen like adaptations of his stuff. American Cycle is, I think, a great adaptation. He doesn't like it. But the book is also incredible. I feel like they're two separate things. But Glamorama is just about models who murder. And the first half of the book is just like this model walking around being like, and then like murder. It's so good.
I think we've all been through a collective trauma. And like the world is different. We're different. And to like expect this like ability to bounce back isn't really realistic. No, it's wild. And I don't like it. I feel like we should all talk about it. We should all have like a grief group. I'd love to. Right? And just be like, yeah, this sucks.
Life is bad. Anyway, so you met your now husband three months after you were broken up with. Did you feel like that was enough time? Okay, so I've read things where it's like, it's okay to date while you're healing. So do you feel like you were healing? you were dating. Absolutely. Did he help? Yes. I'd say like he was one of the most supportive and helpful.
people to me when I was healing. And I think the only reason that the relationship was able to work and grow was because he let me talk about it. Like I never felt like I had to like hide the fact that I was grieving or not process things with him. Like I openly process. with him all of the time. And he really gave me like the space and freedom to do that because he was strangely secure enough in himself. That's nice. It was amazing.
That's really cool. So did he propose to you or did you propose to him? Well, we came to some agreements. We had a very untraditional journey there. When we decided to move in together. After a year of dating, I said, you know, I'm I had after my broken engagement, I hadn't wanted to live with someone until I was engaged. And then he was like, that's bonkers. I don't want to do that. Like living together.
first is like an important stage to me in the relationships progression. And so I said, OK, but if we move in together, I would want to be engaged within the year because that's, you know, what. I value and what's important to me to feel safe and secure here. And he said, okay. And so we moved in together in February of, excuse me, we moved in together in February of 2022.
And then in June, we went to his sister's wedding. And whenever you go to a wedding, you start talking about what you would want, what it would look like. And so we started talking about like what kind of wedding we would want. And we realized that like we. We wanted to get married in like August of 2023. And basically like you have to start looking like a year before if you're going to have like a...
traditional like event space, you know. So we were like looking for and locked into our wedding venue and had wedding planners before we were engaged. Oh, that's actually. Wild. Our wedding planners were like, and what was the story of your engagement? And I was like, I'll have to tell you when it happens. Don't worry about it. It's coming. It's in the making. And so in August, I actually, we went to like look at rings.
I picked out my engagement ring and we got it that day. And so I had my engagement ring. It's actually this one that I moved to my, not to give you the finger, but it moved to my middle finger. I picked it out, and then it was, like, in the house. Where did you get it from? Is it vintage? No, it was from 14 Carat in Beverly Hills. Ooh. Yeah. They're great because they're, like, a wholesaler. You can get things for a good price.
I'm just telling you. I love gold. I love gold. I noticed you. I'm comforting gold. Me too. Yeah, it's all I care about. I love it so much. And then what's your wedding ring? I have two bands for my wedding ring because we got an inscription and the band that I originally got has like this ribbing. So you couldn't put an inscription. So then I got this other smaller band with the inscription. And the inscription is, this is so embarrassing for you.
Which is the thing that we say to each other all the time. Oh, I thought you were like, this is embarrassing for me. And I was like, no, this is your ring. No, yeah. And it is embarrassing for me. It was very, very, very confused. Yeah, I'm so sorry. No, the inscription says this is so embarrassing for you. I like it. It was either that or a quote from I Think You Should Leave.
And we decided for longevity, we would do our own phrase. I think that's for the best. I think that's smart. And so every day I would be like, four o'clock is a good time to get engaged. He'd be like, leave me alone. And then come October, I was like, we really like, I'm ready. Hello. I was like, Gollum. I was like, I know the ring is in the house. Let me wear it.
And we were going away for his birthday in Santa Barbara. And at this point, he'd waited so long that like I knew he had to like make it a thing because like otherwise, why did you wait? And so I was like. I went and like got my nails done with my friend and I was like, yeah, it's going to happen this weekend. Like it's going to happen in Santa Barbara. I don't know. Like.
how I'll react because I know it's coming. But that night we were going out to dinner with just like two of his friends for his birthday. And so I figured it was going to happen once we were up in Santa Barbara because that's where we got married.
that night we went into the restaurant and they were like, your table's upstairs. And I was like, okay. And so I'm like walking up the stairs and I had recently had knee surgery. So the whole time I'm walking up the stairs, I wasn't thinking like, why are we going upstairs? I was thinking like, wow, Allison, you're doing really well on the stairs. You're walking so well. And then I opened the door and my friends are there. And he had planned this whole like big surprise engagement.
party dinner with like like 10 of our closest friends. That's so sweet. I love that. I can't wait to get proposed to because whatever the person does, I will be surprised. They make surprises for people like me.
they make movies for people like me. I'll like read a review and they'll be like, this movie was shit. And then I'll watch it in a theater and be like, I love the movies. This is so nice and fun. At my birthday party, they surprise me. My friends surprise me with a cake, which is not a surprise because it's a- birthday party. But it's still thoughtful. You're getting a cake. Well not always. Not every birthday party has a cake.
The way I reacted was as if I'd never seen a cake before. I think it's wonderful to be a person that has access to joy. Who feels joy easily, you know? I'm the same way. I really do. I'm always giggling and teeing and having a truly nice time. And it's wonderful. Like some people take so much for them to get excited about something. I'm excited about very small things all the time.
I once had a boy say to me, he was like, I wish I loved anything as much as you love Sonic. And for my birthday, that boy gave me a Sonic clock and I started to sob. I love Sonic! Gotta go fast! This is a random question, but it's been on my heart. Do you have any, like, couples in pop culture?
Like movies and stuff where like when they broke up, you got sad. Yeah, I was very upset about Will Arnett and Amy Schumer. No, Amy Poehler. Oh my God. I was very upset about Will Arnett and Amy Poehler. I don't know why that hit me hard.
I've been upset about, I've been upset about a lot of people. And then I've now, so many of them have broken up that now I no longer, now I just like don't, I have to accept that they're all probably going to bring him. Well, have you ever seen Entourage? Of course. I love Entourage. I'm on season eight, and spoiler, sorry about it, but Ari and Mrs. Gold, they break up, and I...
started crying. I love them together. I have two more episodes left and I'm like really hoping they get back together. And I was like, I can't believe I care this much. about this fake, it's not even a real relationship. They were scripted to be together, but I just loved them together. And I'm really upset about it. And I think about it constantly. Yeah.
I think that makes sense. I mean, that means the writers did a good job and the actress did a good job. Do you have any fictional characters that you were upset about? Some people get upset about Carrie and Aiden, and I'm like, they don't belong together. Well, I sort of separate the two shows. Like, to me, Sex and the City is its own thing. There's three canons. Okay. It's Sex and the City.
The movies. Actually, four. Sex and the City of the Series up until season five. Season six is a different canon that I... Oh, interesting. Maybe season six and the movies can go together. Okay. And then in Just Like That is its own separate entity. Right. And in Just Like That, when they broke up at the end of this last season, I was like, I felt like they literally just did that so that there'd be more drama. Like, it didn't make any logical sense at all. But, yeah, I mean, looking back, like…
She didn't. I don't know. Like she she didn't appreciate him. And so I was like, OK, for him to go live his life. I just don't. I think they're not meeting each other like. They're not meeting halfway. I don't think they belong together. But also, I think Carrie's a very selfish woman. And I think she'll eventually find someone who likes that selfishness of her. But I'm just like, girl. You be behaving badly all the time. I was sad about Miranda and Steve. Oh, I was devastated. They really...
They screwed up Miranda's character. Listen. It makes me upset. It bothers me. It was as if they never watched... the movies or the TV show. Cause like when she was like in the first season, she's like, I don't know how to talk to black people. I'm like, you're a lawyer. You're a partner in a law firm. You have higher education. You live in New York city. You know how to talk to a black woman. Why are you bumbling?
around but listen I will watch every episode if it came on every day I would watch it every fucking day I would watch them do anything I Samantha's green screen. I was like, I live for this. I'm here. Show me more of Samantha on a green screen. I love this. I don't get why I love it so much. But maybe just like the formative year, like this, my attachment to these characters. Like I just, it's so.
problematic and not always very good, but I could watch it. I would rather watch it over almost anything. Same. I'm so excited for the new season. I don't even know when it comes out. I need to put it in my calendar. Real quick, we have to take a break. Allison, do you have any advice for single women or men or people? I do.
I do. This is sort of my jam is to tell people how to date. So my biggest thing is to figure out what it is that you're looking for. And so I think that there's like three kind of buckets. for how to do that. And so one is like the things that you can't, the things that you can't live with, which is obviously deal breakers. Then there's the things that you need. And then the third bucket that I think a lot of us don't pay enough attention to is the things you want but aren't necessary.
And I think a lot of times people get really hung up on these things that they want, but aren't actually necessary. So like, for example, if like you love to ski, being like, I need to be with someone who loves to ski. Like you don't actually. Like, you know, like you can go ski with your friends. Like you don't need to have like all of like the same hobbies as your partner. But something like I need someone that like believes in therapy. That's.
If you're someone in therapy or just like a person, you know, like that's crucial. That's a that's like a deal breaker. But so just like really getting into the weeds about like looking more at someone's like values and like. goals for their life and if like what you want in the future is the same over some of these like more like superficial details can be helpful. But what if skiing is more important to you than therapy?
Well, that's like a question, right? If all you do all day is ski, then you probably need someone that skis. But if like skiing is something that you've been... able to do while maintaining friendships and family and like it's not what you do all of your time, then you probably don't need a partner. No, I'm just kidding. So your advice basically is just like figure out your wants and needs and separating like wants from a need. Yes, exactly. And to like really be.
Be clear about what type of relationship you're looking for and then be open. direct about that with the people that you're dating and to not waste time. I think that like one of the big issues, especially in the dating app era that like burns people out is how many bad experiences they're having. So a thing I always tell people.
is make sure that you have a phone call or a FaceTime before you meet in person. Oh. Because that will save you so many bad dates. And the less energy you're spending on bad dates, the less you'll burn out. And like the more you can do it productively and like save your time on people that have like made it past that round. I don't think I can do that. But you can. You can just say, hey, I'd love to have a phone call first.
And then if they're like, no, then you're like, OK, well, that's a non-accommodating person who I shouldn't meet in public. Because you can write how many times have you sat down on a date and within 30 seconds to a minute, you know that this isn't right.
And you've now wasted a whole night. And so like suddenly your associations with dating is like, this is a terrible thing. This is so draining. I hate this. But if you get to a place where you're only going on first in-person dates with people that have already. past a certain level, like you're just going to have a better association with dating. I don't, the thought of like talking to a stranger on the phone feels...
So much more intimate than just like meeting them in person. Well, that's the whole other part of dating is like distress tolerance. Like I don't find dating fun. Like dating isn't fun. No, it's like a work. And it's like.
uncomfortable. But like accepting that and like leaning into that and being like, I can handle this distress rather than like, oh, why is this so hard? Why am I uncomfortable? Shouldn't this be fun? Instead of being like, no, it is going to be uncomfortable. It is going to be hard. I am going to have to like do things I don't want to do, but I'm doing it for a reason. Okay. I really can't get past a FaceTime with a stranger.
Because then it's like, you're in my house. Like, get out of my house. Well, you could take it outside. You could do it in like a very nondescript like wall of your apartment where you could be anywhere. Or you could just do a phone call. What I do is when I have a first date, I usually schedule something after. So I have to be like, ah.
I gotta go. And then if I'm, like, not feeling it, I'll just, like, move it up. I'll be like, ugh, I can't believe I double booked myself like this. Bye. And they can't see through that. I think I play it off pretty well.
You don't think that when you're on a date with someone, you go, oh, my God, I got to go to this other thing. I totally forgot that. Well, I don't say I totally forgot. I'm like, oh, I have a show. I have a show at nine. Yeah. I didn't think that this date would last so long, but it really has. And then I leave. Whether I like them or not, I do that. Yeah. Because I have to be mysterious. Disagree with that. I feel like that's what like all of the like.
The things say, they're like, be mysterious. Leave them wanting more. Don't tell them all about yourself. Well, then... then like, what are you, what type of person are you then attracting? You're attracting someone that likes mystery, that likes a chase, and that type of person isn't going to want to actually get to know someone and be in a real relationship.
Like you have such a beautiful, wonderful personality. You want someone that's like going to see that and recognize that and like want to be around that from day one. Yeah. So I don't have to be mysterious. Look, I've never been mysterious, and I've been engaged twice. Fair, fair, fair. I'm not mysterious, and I've never been engaged. I would love for someone to be like, marry me. I don't know if I want to get married, but it's like the thought that counts, just like the being asked that counts.
Well, the idea of, like, this is, I choose you for this life is a really beautiful thing. I just want someone to be like, I can't live without you. But, like, not as dramatic and not actually mean it. Do you know what I mean? Saying I don't want to live without you. Yeah. Like we can live without each other, but I don't want to. That's what I really, really want. What other advice do you have? Okay. So I think, I think that.
matchmaking is something that we overlook. Like, I also think like having setups are really helpful. So like, do you ever have your friends set you up? No, all of my friends are stingy and they don't share the goods with me. We also like all my friends. We kind of like know the same people. Right. and run in the same circles. And a lot of the people that I know who are single that people would hook me up with, I don't think that those are the people I should be hooked up with. Okay.
But like, what about like... friends of friends. Like I just think like putting it out there to people like I'm looking to meet someone. I'm looking to be set up like I did that for a year. Nobody did it. Nobody did it. No, I was like, please set me up. No, nobody did it. Well, that's on your friends. OK, so let's let's dig deeper. What else?
So do you online date? I was online dating for a while, but I have put a pause on it. How come? Because I don't want to right now. Okay. I'm in a zone where I'm like... No, thank you. That's great. But if you if you do start it again, then like a big thing I say is to like make sure that the profile.
really shows you and your life and that there's things to engage on with the profile. Like you want something that someone can like start a conversation with rather than just like beauty shots. And you want to like show your personality. So I always, and I mean, I'm sure you do this, but like. I would always make the joke.
Yes. And then they'll either laugh or they won't laugh. But like if someone's not going to find my inappropriate joke funny, then they're also not going to want to marry me. You know, so like leading with your true self and like leading with your humor and leading with like what interests you and being open.
is a way for like other people to like feel open and then they'll be more true to themselves and more authentic back. I used to have, so like on Hinge, there's like prompts. And before I deleted my profile. It was like, who would you invite to dinner? And I was like, the minions. And you would not believe how many people didn't find that funny. But I was like, you don't have to cook much. They're tiny.
You're not even going to go through like a bottle of wine. They're so small. And then they're like funny. But like your person would find that funny. Do you know what I mean? Yes. That's how you have to like frame it all. It's like I think we always view it as like other people's rejection of us.
says something about us and like our worth and our value, when really all it says is something about the compatibility between two people. It's all about compatibility, not about like me being better than you or you being better than me. It's just like. about finding a connection and then the two of you like nurturing that connection together so when you have like
That framework around dating, it's suddenly like not as terrifying and dangerous because it's not going to be so harmful to your mental state and your sense of self if things don't work out. That's what my therapist said. She's like. It's not about you being a piece of shit. She didn't say that. But like something to the effect of like, it's not about you being bad or ugly or whatever. She's like, you're just not compatible. And I'm like, but then who do I blame?
Well, it's a numbers game, you know. Have you ever hired a matchmaker? No, but I did let a matchmaker swipe on my bumble for a while, and it was right after the election. so four years ago, and she sent a message to a man. Have I talked about this? I don't think so. She sent a message to a man that was like, how about that election? I was like, no, you can't do that. That's not...
That's not a good opening. And I was like, and I'm not even the professional matchmaker. You are. But like she sent that message to like four people and nobody answered because it's unhinged. Yikes. Yeah. So, I mean. This is an expensive option.
But, you know, you're investing in yourself. There are some matchmakers out there where what they're doing is they're working from like a pool of people that they know. And so you would be the client and then they would they wouldn't just be going on a dating app for you. They would like actually set you up on on dates. I mean, not.
Everyone is great. People have had some bad experiences, but there are, I think, some great matchmakers out there. I tried one. Well, I filled out like this big, long application for it. And I made a lot of jokes on it. And I don't think they took too kindly to that. So like, I don't think they took me seriously. But then I guess maybe they like, I don't know if they like.
Saw that I have a dating podcast. I don't know. But then they like reached back out like a year later and they're like, oh, he'd be happy to work with you. And then I was like, no, if you don't want me at my dumb jokes, then you can't have me. No. And that's a good philosophy in general. Thank you. I try. I like me. Right. I'm having a nice time. And that's the most important, right? I think so, to be happy with yourself. Like, truly, I have a great time by myself all the time.
That's the dream. I mean, now it's just like, you know, you want someone to share time with too. And like, that's okay to want and to go after and to prioritize, but it doesn't take away from how wonderful it is to like yourself because that's the most important part. Yeah.
But sometimes I feel like I'm flawed because, you know, I want love in a relationship. I hate that. I hate that so much of society has made us feel that way when, like, humans are inherently social creatures. Right. And, like, life is really hard and having a partner. that's the lifestyle you gravitate towards is wonderful and nurturing and great. So I, yeah, I would just always push back against that voice in your head. And it's like, it's a totally.
natural, wonderful thing to want. Yeah. I just want to come home and yap, yap, yap uninterrupted for an hour until they're tired and then eat food and then yap some more. Exactly. I just want to, like, just talk and have someone be like, mm-hmm. And I mean, they can have an opinion and add something, but, like, just let me talk. I love talking. It's one of my favorite fucking things.
Do you have like a list of what you're looking for that maybe is too strict? No, if anything, it's loosey-goosey. It's like, have a job. Be nice. Be nice to me. Have a nice family. Have you let people submit to the show to date you? No I would never. Why not? I don't know. You should do that. You should right now call for applicants, send in a dating profile, send in a bio, send in some info, and we should go through it. Well, I feel like my listeners are like gay men.
Well, maybe they have a straight brother. You don't have to submit yourself. You can submit someone you know. Oh, my God. Right? You have this great resource. People know people. Anyone in the Los Angeles area. submit. You should create an email address for this.
Maybe I will. I did get hit on really hard at Comic-Con. I hosted a panel for Blumhouse and it was really fun. And this guy after asked me for a picture and I was like, sure. And he was like, I would date you. And I was like, oh, OK. And he was. like i really would and i was like oh okay i really i appreciate that and then he was like should i dm you and i was like i guess i don't know i just like i didn't know what to say i've i very rarely get hit on that
because I stopped doing meet and greets because people would do it at meet and greets and stuff. But he also, like, wasn't moving. He was just, like, locking eyes with me. And I was like, I simply don't know what to do. I feel like in that situation, you say, give me your Instagram and then you can do some research and you can reach out if you want. Wow. That thought never occurred to me.
Not one time. I just like froze. For someone who's done improv for as long as I have, not good on the balls of my feet. The top of my head. Yeah, the not good. What is the phrase? And I've done improv for many years as well. Oh, well. I'm not. Balls of you. I'm not good at going off the dome. I'm not good at improvising. Oh, my God. Wow. Off the cuff. Yes, off the cuff. I'm not good off the cuff. When someone throws me, I am fucking thrown. Well.
Allison, we have come to the end. I ask almost all of my guests this. I have forgotten it a couple of times, but would you date me? I would, yeah. Thank you. Do you have anything that you want to promote? love to promote my book. I do, I think, conversations about modern marriage available anywhere books are sold. Also, you could check out my podcast just between us. And then I have a mental health focus sub stack and Instagram called emotional support.
lady what's substack i keep hearing about substack it's cool it's like uh it's like a blog like basically i just like have a like blogspot.com updated
I never went there, but maybe. I mean, it's really cool. It's like a lot of different things, but I primarily like I have a newsletter that goes out every week that's like about mental health. So it's like a place that really features my writing versus like my other content. And then do you subscribe? This is so funny that I'm asking this on a podcast.
These people listening, no, but I don't. So can you subscribe to a sub stack? Yes. So like that's the whole thing. And do I have to pay? I have some stuff that's free and some stuff that's fine to pay well. Okay. All right. Every other week. I'm learning about sub-stocks.
Well, if you like this episode of Why Won't You Date Me, you can like it, you can rate it, you can subscribe. Give me five stars on Apple Podcasts. And if you write me something nasty hitting on me to Why Won't You Date Me, podcast at gmail.com. No dick pics. Mars doesn't want it. But I want you to get nasty and creative. This person said, Nicole, I'm going to take you to an orgy. And you can, one, spend the whole time getting pleasured by strangers.
Dot, dot, dot. Or two, you can join me in creating our own pleasure by sneaking up on people and poking them in the buttholes and squealing peekaboo until we get kicked out. Don't worry, I'll play peekaboo in that little puss. with my face as a thank you for being wild with me. This one was interesting. I will pick number one because number two is assault. Okay, bye-bye! You've been listening to Why Won't You Date Me with me!
Nicole Byer. This show is produced and edited by Mars with executive producer Anya Kenovskaya. It's engineered by Casey Donahue with guest research by Lindsay Kemp. Our VP of content at HeadGum is Katie Moose. And our theme music is arranged by Mike Comite. Ah, thanks for listening. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. See you then. Okay, bye-bye. That was a HeadGum Podcast.
Hi, I'm Caleb Heron, host of the So True podcast, now on HeadGum. Every week, me and my guests get into it, and we get down to what's really going on. I ask them what's so true to them, how they got to where they are in life, a bunch of other questions, and we also may or may not test them.
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