Apolo Ohno & Lisa Leslie: How to Be An Olympian

in their own lives. The Olympics puts that on display on a global scale. As President, I had the opportunity to celebrate many triumphs by Team USA and meet hundreds

of athletes who represented our country so well. It was a special honor to be president when the United States hosted the Games in Atlanta, and I'll never forget the experiences giving the Olympic Torch a ceremonial sendal from the White House as it began its journey to Olympic Village, attending the opening ceremony with Hillary, where Muhammad Ali lift the flame, visiting with athletes in the US, and several other nations while we were there was in some ways

the most interesting thing of all. So why am I telling you this? Because at their best, the Olympics symbolize our world's potential for cooperation, for bringing people together, for honoring the common humanity that unitess across old divisions of gender, race,

geographical borders. No one knows more about the Olympic experience, of course, than the athletes themselves, and today I'm honored to have two iconic gold medalists with me to offer their insights on the Olympics, on the years of training to go into qualifying, all the rigors of competing in the Olympics, the ups and downs at all athletes faced,

and finding residience to keep going. Apollo On won eight medals and short track speed skating across three Olympics from two thou and two two thousand ten, America's all time most decorated Winter Olympian in the process, becoming the face of his sport and one of America's most iconic athletes. Since retiring from competition, he's transitioned successfully into business, philanthropy, broadcasting, and book rotting. His latest book, Hard Pivot, is out

this month. It takes us through this transition and offers guidance for anyone facing big life changes, a subject especially useful in these times, as so many of us navigate uncharted waters. I've loved watching him throughout the years. I'm glad I got the chance to meet him twenty years ago, and I'm very grateful for the chance to speak with him now. Apollo. Thanks for joining us, Mr President. It's

wonderful to see you again. Twenty years later. I was thinking about you know, we have in our home that picture of you and our family together in the Dominican Republic. It was great. I remember that very very well. It was it was an honor. I've been really impressed by what you're trying to do and helping people manage transitions in their lives and also supporting these athletes that are under so much stress. I think it's I think it's

really good. The average person has no idea how much mental stress of companies, the efforts you have to make to be the best in the world, and anything I agree and I do is overlaw of support. Yeah, it's I think that that's that's why we all fall in

love with with the Olympics. Every time they come because of the the kind of only limited three podium spots that are available, but the thousands of athletes that have dedicated a ten year or sometimes even a twenty year UM path towards being their best, and we tend to only celebrate champions the ones that they are standing typically on top of the podium or receiving a medal in

some capacity UM. But it's not to say that those other those others haven't done the work, they haven't put in the time and the energy and that sacrifice and dedication.

And so what's interesting I think in today, at least from my purview, is this transformation I think all of us are are having around this transparency of talking about the pressures associated with such high levels of performance, whether that is in the Olympics for the athletes specifically, and the other side of the coin of what's happening behind the curtain, right what's happening between our own two ears.

And I think at the end of the day, although we hoist many people up on pedestals because we aspire and are inspired by them to to to be something that semblance a little more like them, I think at least what I've seen is Um, this ability to say, well, that person is also human and he or she has the same thoughts and the same struggles and the same insecurities and self doubts. You know that I do. And uh, just trying to help people manage that the best way possible.

You wrote this book that I think it's coming at a very important time because everybody has undergone some chance in their lives lately as a result of COVID, and COVID has taken a pretty terrible tone, not only in the lives we have lost and the people who have been permanently impaired, but the fights were having over the vaccine and masks and just the anxiety that people have.

It's it's it's unnatural to worry about going outside, walking down the street, being with your friends, doing all these things. So this book of yours is coming in an important time, and uh, I'd like to talk about it a little bit and why you think it's just as important for people who aren't Olympic level athletes to read is for people who are in high level competitions. Yeah, and and you know this is the book it's called hard Pivot, Embrace change, fine purpose and show up fully it's a

short book, it's a it's an easy read. And when I started writing this book two and a half years ago, it was actually and deeply rooted in kind of my own struggles and tribulations around my reinvention or my transition from this one identity that I had been married to my entire life, which was Apollo oh no, Olympic champion speed skater um, you know, fifteen years in the Olympic path in space, and so I had. I had only thought that that's what I was. I had no idea

other facets my personality. I was naturally curious. I was interested in exploring different parts of business in the world, but I still carried that business card with me. It's really hard for me to figure out when I decided to retire, what's next, Like what am I good at?

What am I passionate about? And will I ever be able to replace the feeling that I once had representing our country and competing in the Olympic Games and having thousands and millions of people around this country cheer for me. I had realized quite quickly that we always see things for what they are in the moment. We stay so zoomed in and we believe that this moment is the defining moment, this is what's going to have the rest of my legacy and chapter for the rest of my life.

And I think we failed to realize that it's just one chapter. It's a part of all these different experiences that make up the entire book. And so there was this deep psychological process that I had to go through

in terms of who am I? What is important? My father, who has been a huge um just just advocate and support of my life, but also his philosophy on kind of always prompting me to ask the internal questions, and you talk about like how am I keeping score of a life well lived regardless of what the external circumstances are telling me as and and this book reminds me to kind of ask life, right, what does Apollo want from life? And what do I believe life wants from Apollo?

How can I engage in this path um knowing full well that I'm gonna have failures, I will have multiple mistakes, i will have missteps, but also making sure that I am aligned with that true north so that I can

zoom out and also remain committed on that path. And so the book is dedicated towards people who either during COVID they were laid off, they decided they didn'ty don't no longer want to pursue this career that they spent twenty or thirty years in, and now they're stuck with the same question of how do I do my best in life to find my true north? How do I keep score? And actually understand that the scorecard maybe was

the wrong scorecard from the beginning. Maybe I was living a life in fear of other people's opinions versus what I fundamentally believe is the most important thing for me, my family and my community, etcetera. And I hope it will help improve and change at least light the fire within a lot of people. I remember, sometime around the time I left the White Else might be a yours later. I had given a lot of thought to what I would do in the rest of my life, but I

knew just vaguely how I wanted to do it. I didn't I couldn't answer the how question. So first you have to say what, then you have to say how. And Uh. I read a little book by a man named Spencer Johnson called Who Moved My Cheese? And It was from a story about mice being trained in laboratory experiments to navigate fairly complicated mazes to get to the cheese once they found the cheese, and they had a surprising capacity to remember complex roots until somebody moved the cheese.

And you know, you stopped speed skating and somebody moved your cheese. You biology moved your cheese. All kinds of things. You had to make that decision. And I think you're still young enough that a lot of people much younger than you know about you remember with great pride and excitement what you accomplished, but are out there asking these questions of themselves now because this is happening to people

at all ages. I have a lot of young friends that I just see them asking these questions now, probably twenty thirty years before they would have asked had it out been for this total disruption of our lives in in two thousand two, before the first Olympic Games that I had competed in just six months prior was the September eleven, two thousand one, um devastating attacks on on

this country. And you know, during that time, I was, you know, I was eighteen going on fifteen I always joke and uh, and I remember walking into the opening ceremonies, you know, just a year six months after, you know, the country was very uncertain in terms of travel. We weren't we weren't entirely sure if we should be hosting

a global event on home soil. We didn't know if it was an invitation to replicate what had just happened, and so there was this uneasiness that existed, this uncertainty, a lot of misinformation and disinformation that existed, and um, people were unsure. For the first time in a long time. We I think we as a country had been brought to a niece, so to speak. And it was hard

to believe that, right. I think that the ethos of being American was kind of always brashedly, always saying like we're the best, We're number one, you know, uh, nothing can can can take us down. And and it was it was this time where I remember walking to the opening ceremonies and you know, seeing the the you know, the security and the Special Forces people were on top of rooftops and they had their night vision goggles and

walking into the actual arena. And then at that point in time, you know, this like reverberance of energy that was like unified. They had walked in this flag that was flown at the World Trade Center from New York. One of my very close friends and teammates was a part of that contingency that walked in the flag and there wasn't a dry eye in the entire arena. But really, and most importantly, um, there was this sense of community.

And you know, the Olympics was really powerful. It showed that hey, we're going to persevere, we are going to continue. Is there uncertainty, yes, is there going to be risk here, yes, but we have to continue and pick ourselves back up again. And that was at the moment for me in which I felt like, Wow, this is this is way bigger than this little sport of speed skating that I do. This is something that is very representative regardless of outcome.

Here's an incredible opportunity in a chance to have unification, to have common belief, to have Team USA and a global arena for people to compete their absolute best and showcase the utmost of the human spirit. And my very first race, it was the two thousand two um Win Olympics. It was a one thousand meters in Salt Lake City. UM. I was favored to win the race. I was like on all these magazines and um a mirror. Moments before

the finish line and I was in first place. At the snap of the finger, another athlete crashed into me and then all of us went spiraling into the paths UM and my Olympic dreams of winning gold in that race were almost over. And I scrambled to my feet, falling again. But I thrust my skates across the finish line in this like wild craze of just trying to finish the race. That was my instinctual habit. I didn't know what happened. I rush off of the ice. Um

I had just one silver. Uh, and I was confused. I didn't know what happened. And and for for a second, you know, like many others, I felt like, hey, this was taken from me. I was deserving of that gold. It was mine, it was someone else's faults. Those are my natural human reactions and responses. And then in incomes in. Uh, this this friend of mine who also our physio and

kind of slash doctor. He's got this crazy look in his eye, and he looks at me and he says Apollo that was the most incredible race in the world. At the time, I had this huge gash in my leg. I just cut myself and it's at that moment that I realized it, Wow, this this was a gift. I didn't get the color of the metal that I wanted, but representative of that was this ability to get back

up and win that silver. And so I told myself as I went out to receive the medals in the in the metal ceremony, that I was going to celebrate this silver as if it was the gold, because it represented so much more than just the race itself. It was We're going to get back, We're going to get knocked down, and during those times is a defining component of how do you get yourself back up, recalibrate and

continue on. And it's never easy, and oftentimes life doesn't give us the entire result that we would like if we were the ones holding the playbook and writing the script, so to speak. But I think it's how we react and respond to those life challenges that are at the time are seemingly crushing and they can paralyze you in a capacity that doesn't allow you be your best self.

But then later on life. We realize that that was the most incredible blessing of all and that to this day, out of the eight medals that I've won, was the most significant, the most important, and the one that I think is my favorite because of the life lessons that I carry with me today, not because of the color

of the metal. I was watching that, right, I remember the crash, and I remember being so proud that somehow you got up and finished in you tried out for the one or Olympics and you didn't qualify this right, what happened? Then? How did you react? Did you ever think for a moment about quitting? I did? I was confused. So, you know, in the Olympic Games are going to be held in not going to Japan, which is near where

my grandparents are actually from. And so my father was a Japanese immigrant who came to the US um no money in his pocket, you know, like incredible immigrant story that just kind of fought tooth and nail and survived to live the American dream, which was to pursue his passion in this country. And when I was born, everything changed and so you know, for his entire, my entire life at that point, my father wanted me to do something special, and here was the moment in which we

were going to come back to Japan. My dad was gonna say, see, it wasn't for nothing. Look at we produced. We produced this. You know, our our son, our family is going to compete on Japanese home soil, compete for the US. This is like the perfect story book. I was fifteen years old. One year prior to that trials,

I was actually number one in the US. I was ranked number one in the U S. I had this incredible rise to um being technically the captain of the team, so to speak, by performance, not by not by age, of course, and uh in less than a year at those Olympic trials, I finished dead last, sixteenth place. Actually, I was kind of mentally defeated that year. I had not gone um to the levels that are required to

be your absolute best. I went through the motions, and my father saw this pattern that was starting to show habits um in the way that I trained and approached the sport. And so after I did not make that team, was I defeated? Yes? And so my father took me and we flew back to the Seattle area where I where I grew up and I'm from and he drove me about three and a half hours southwest of downtown Seattle, and this area on the Pacific Ocean called the Palace Beach.

And at the time, you know, we didn't grow up with a lot of money, and so whenever we had the chance, my father would drive me to these nature esque places um that we're somewhat nearby, and we would we would we would sketch, and we would walk, and he would talk to me about life and give me lessons and and all these things. And so this was the place that we had been many times. And there was an old cabin there that was a part of

this um area. It was called Iron Springs Resort. Now at the time it was very old, very run down um and it was like a log cabin that someone had built um in these woods that that that are a part of the ocean. And my father drops me off at this location and he says to alone, and he says, you're not listening to anything that I've been saying for the past year. You've thrown away an incredible opportunity. And I'm not upset that you didn't make the team.

What is concerning to me is that you are throwing away an opportunity to be your best and you have second guests, and and told yourself subconsciously that, well, maybe if I would have tried harder, I probably would have made the team or committed or been more dedicated. And these can potentially haunt you for the rest of your life, this feeling of regret, this feeling of maybe I'll just

quit and and do something else. And so he says, You're going to stay here for as long as it takes for you you to understand and realize, like which direction on life that you want to go and how are you going to pursue that. So I'm fifteen years old, right, So this is the time. I can articulate much better today than I could back then. Back then, I was very confused and angry at my father all these things. I just I didn't want to be there. I was

I didn't understand why. I just want to hang out with my friends in Seattle, Like I have no video games, there's no cell phone, there's no social media, there's no

way to entertain myself. And so I'm just kind of trying to figure out and I'm journaling every single day and I come to this conclusion that I'm willing to take the risk and take the gamble one more time, uh, and pursue this wild, crazy sport of speed skating and try to make the next Olympic team, which be four years later, which in my sport is a very uncertain, vaulatile environment. So I called my father. I let him know the decision that I've made. He doesn't know which

decision it was. I just told me, I've made a decision. He comes and picks me up. On the three and a half hour drive home, I explained to him that I'm willing to try us one more time. He's ecstatic a because he wants to see me and he believes

that I have the talent skill to continue on. But also um, he was happy that I actually came to a conclusion that throughout this hardship, this tough love, was this underlying light switch that was turned on for some reason, and from that moment on, I harnessed the and leverage the emotional trauma that occurred of not making that team and the way that it made me feel, the chatter that I heard in the other parents and coaches years. Oh, he's just a low statistic. He can't handle the pressure.

He's going to crack under pressure. Those things were deeply emotionally scarring, but they also were important to me to harness the power of And that's how my career took a real turn was when I decided to say, you know what, the work is the shortcut. I want to go somewhere and be there in four years, and the only way through was by doing the things necessary on a day to day basis that compound over time and aligned with what I felt at that time was was

my purpose. I know that you have had spent some time with other athletes having doubts, and only they can decide what they want in their lives. And I think you know one of the things your book will do for people who are high achievers but at some tipping point is to convince them not to make the decision for anyone else, but not to make it out of fear, because there is some dignity in the decision. Just to keep trying. Handling these changes is a very big deal.

In handling setbacks is a very big deal. We'll be right back. What do you think we could do to pay more positive attention to the the enormous mental and emotional and psychological challenges and pressures. A lot of athletes are under and still continue to value competitive excellence and recognize momentary victories. How can we strike the write balance?

I thought about this often. I think, Um, you know, my own conditioning around how I can be my own version of a warrior has probably also transformed over the past decade. And as we enter into an era where um, we're being much more communicative around what happens between our own two years and this connection and engagement that we can create with our communities through social or wherever. The good side is that we can actually show the human side.

You can show that side that that makes us more awesome. Um, we can also exude the same type of qualities that we want to see in Olympic athletes and in those that we believe when we define the words strong. But I think the words strong now is encompassing and has texture, and that texture is associated with realizing and recognizing that you must have empathy, the vulnerability associated with seeking one's

authentic truth. It's actually incredibly strong. And so you know my first reaction when I saw Simone Biles say that she was not going to continue and compete in those games might because of my own conditioning. I said, hey, that that doesn't seem fair. That seems like she's quitting. I think she's failing at what she's doing. That was my first natural response, and then I said, wait a second, Apollo,

you don't know this person. Number one, You have no idea what this person has gone through or what is feeling and seeing right now and an actual reality. To say yes and continue on the same path that she had been on many many times before was actually the

easy road. That was the road that was expected, and that was the road that she was conditioned to do, regardless of how she feels and or what has happened, or making a stand in some capacity, even if it meant that she was not going to get a medal. That's really hard to do. I'm not sure that I would be able to do that in full transparency. And on the flip side, to go against the grain, against what anyone else thought was acceptable and or um what

we wanted to see happen. She said, I'm not going to compete because I'm not okay that has taken That takes so much strength to go against what what you know. Potentially I don't know a hundred million people in this country would say that's not the right answer, um, And so I commend her for doing that. And I'm sure that that has not been easy. UM. I think that as we entered this era where yes, there's a lot

of challenges this country has. Yes, there's a lot of conflict. Yes, there's all these things that sometimes we ask ourselves, I'm not sure if we're going to make it, um. And I think the strength and the determination that exists when we define those words can live in the Olympic space, and so what can we do? I think we need

to talk about it. We have to have the open lines of communication to still hold to our truth of you can be incredibly strong, you can persevere and overcome the most devastating of situations circumstances, and uh, you can come out the other side incredibly strong, calloused in a way, right, Douglas Douglas Mallock. Right, good timber does not grow with ease. The stronger wind, the stronger trees. That is the experience

that we can live up to. And then realizing the scars that we have in our life, the things that have happened are what makes us who we are today. But people don't know about those unless you are communicating about them. And only through communication can we actually help those athletes proceed to be more wholesome, and I believe

actually stronger, because then they own those things. They are no longer held in this mental prison, being handcuffed to this idea that I will have to do what everyone expects me to do versus knowing what is right and what I need to do. Uh, And that's available. So I think that I think we're on the right path.

I think the communication has to continue UM and then for people who suffer UM on a chemical level, I think that we're understanding so much more about the brain, and there are treatments and people and professionals that we can seek to help us navigate through life's most challenging times. Thank you, Thank you for not quitting when you've got

off the drink. I'll be honest, I've never really put a nickel's worth of attention two speech skating and those smaller rinks until you came along, and slowly I saw first what skill it took, the second, what courage it took, third how it could be dangerous, and fourth how a lot of Olympic sports are like this, but how often in that sport you wind up being at the mercy of who bumped who first and what happens and you just seemed to lift yourself above it all Your head

was in a good place. Life is a complicated piece of work. But I think the one thing that it's almost impossible to make people appreciate when they're young, it is how fast it happens mhm, you know, and how you you want to enjoy every phase of your life and you want something you've given back, And I think that's really hard to think about when you're young. My father died before I was born, so I always was

more aware of my mortality than most people. And one of my great goals in life, when Helen I got married, I said, you know one thing I hope will happens. That will be old people one day sitting on a park bench and the young people will walk by, holding hands and laughing, and we will have no resentments and no regrets, just gratitude. But it's one thing to say and another to live. That's what that wag said. When all is said and done, more is said than done.

You know what's you're like? To be that way you want to be, and I think you've got a chance here to have a really profound positive impact on people. Thank you, Thank you. This is this has been This has been amazing. I have a lot of life lessons here. My next guest is a former professional basketball player, four time Olympic gold medalists, three time w n B A m VP, and Hall of Famer. Lisa Leslie is currently the coach of the Triplets in the Big Three Basketball League.

She led to the inaugural Big Three championship in twenty nineteen. In addition to her pioneering basketball career, which includes being the first woman to dunk w n B a game, Lisa's resume includes fashion, modeling, acting, sports commentary, and now real estate. I had the honor to meet her when I was president and she was a member of the women's national basketball team when they won those gold medals in and in two thousand. I've been a big fan ever since, and I'm so glad to be speaking with

her today. Lisa, thank you for joining us. Yes, thank you for having me, Mr President. I'm so excited. It's a great one to see you. To hear your voice always warms my heart. I remember, UH, just me really getting into voting and focusing more on our country and our needs. UM, after having the pleasure of meeting you and Miss Hillary and UM meeting you also on Beverly Hills at Rock the Vote. I don't know if you

remember that. UM, thank you so much. It's always been a pleasure and I'm so happy to be on your podcast. So tell us just a little about winning. How you grew up, and how you became interested in basketball. I grew up in Compton, California, which is the inner city of southern California. UM. I was raised by my mom, who's a single mom with two sisters, an older sister and a younger sister. I'm the middle child, therefore the best child, who's most flexible, who gets along with everybody

because I'm used to being told what to do. But I'm also used to leading and telling my younger sister what to do. So UM, I'd argue that the middle child's the best. Of course, my sisters would argue something different, but UM, you know, we just screw up. I come

from very humble beginnings. UM had so much love and just positive affirmations from my mom for my sisters and I to, you know, take on the world and do the best that we can do, be our best, and do it with a lot of love and heart and integrity. But I gotta tell you, I didn't start playing basketball until I was twelve years old, which is really late considering all the success that I've had in this sport.

But basketball, for me, really was about an opportunity to create change for our lives and for me to be able to go to college. That was the whole reason why I picked up a basketball because I recognize that that was the one sport that because obviously I was so tall. I was six ft in the sixth grade, so crazy, right. I remember telling my mom that people keep asking me if I play basketball, and she's like, oh, well, because you're tall. To be heard, you know, they associate

sports with people who were tall. And I was like, well, I don't want to play that, and she was like, oh, you don't have to. So funny. Um, But I went to middle school and there was a girl named Shay. They called her she and everybody's like Shay and she's so popular, and I'm like, why is everybody know her name? And they said, well, she's on the basketball team, and so I think God just had that happen for me so I can go, well, I want everybody to know

my name. So I tried out for the basketball team. I guess the rest is history. It's amazing, that's how I started playing basketball. That's a great story. It's a great sport. Yes, it's It's changed my life and it's enhanced my life in ways that I would have never known. Through all the hard work and dedication of picking up that one basketball. In addition to your Olympic career, you made a huge contribution, I think to building the w n b A into what it is today. Talk about

what that was like starting the league, expanding it. I know that Kobe Bryant did so much for the n

b A. He supported it all much. A little about that, Yeah, I kind of think back first, even going to high school and Title nine, Right, So Title nine played such a huge part and the opportunities that I've had even getting to the w n b A. Um, when I look at Title nine and I remember learning about it in high school in the ninth grade and just having the opportunity to be able as a female, to be able to play sports, and recognizing that Hey, this is

an opportunity that although it's a bill and a law that can go away at any time. And so I think it was that understanding of the opportunity and the urgency to play sports and not knowing if it was gonna last that really motivated me to want to to be my best and to get after it. So I

never took playing for granted. I went to Morningside High in Inglewood, California, and then I went on to USC and at USC, I played for a coach name Mary Anne Stanley, and it was coach Stanley who gave me that idea about, you know, representing our country and you know, understanding that there's basketball overseas. And from there, I have to say that making my first USA basketball team in the eleventh grade was my first opportunity to travel the world.

And so what happens is sometimes we have kids that play these sports, but you never get an opportunity or you don't see the big picture. By making my first USA team and going to Spain out of the country, first time out of the country ever, my first passport, that was really what opened and brought in my my horizons to the fact that other women in other countries play basketball professionally, like there are more opportunities outside of

our state. And then I would come back to our country and go, well, why don't we recognize or celebrate women's sports as much as we do men? And so I knew that I had really um one of voice and a purpose, and my purpose was to try to spend spread the word about women's sports and us playing at this next level and us being even better. So when you look at what we did in six it really started in when the USA team traveled the world,

playing everybody in their country and beating them. By the time we got that gold medal placed around our next we were sixty and oh and so that's sixty and oh is really what elevated the idea that women can play professional basketball in our country. And so the w

b A was then launched in um. I was assigned to Los Angeles and the w b A again a platform, an opportunity to be a role model for so many young kids, boys and girls, signing autographs, taking pictures, um doing community service because I knew we had to invest in our fans and try to grow our basketball in

our country. And so that really was the pivotal moment for me was just understanding the platform, understanding the importance of networking, understanding the importance of you know, my appearance, and you know I love being feminine and I love fashion. So that for me was like, Hey, but I'm gonna play basketball and they're gonna play as hard as I can. I loved having those opportunities. And I would say that our NBA counter parts, our guys, were our biggest supporters.

And yes, Kobe Bryant was probably had done more for women's basketball and our awareness and a very short period of time than anybody else in history when it comes to a man that really loved what we were doing, aside from David Stern himself and the late doctor Bus. Tell the people who are listening, how long you played well? I played professionally for UM. I'd say eleven years in the w n B A UM, because I stopped and I had my daughter, and I went back and played

and played in my last Olympics. UM, but I've been playing basketball for over twenty five years. UM. I played overseaves, I lived in Italy, I lived in Russia. UM got a chance to eat some amazing food and learned to speak another language. Um, and bath sketball. Like I said, picking up that ball in seventh grade changed my life forever.

I always say, you know, it was one thing for me to represent my city and even my state and winning state championships in high school, but it's been the biggest honor of my life to represent our country playing for Team USA. At first, that's a beautiful sentiment and I'm glad you feel that way still. So you won gold medals in two thousand, two thousand four, and two thousand night, anyone in particular stand out for you? Oh? Yes,

Mr President, it will always be for me. Um. If you remember that, Um, which is not to put a damper on it, but there was a bomb that went off in at the in Atlanta at the Olympic, and so um our men and women's team stayed across the street from that Centennial Park. That bomb went off outside of my balcony window, and UM, that moment was sort of surreal because you know, things you saw on television, but to be on our US soil and for that

to happen. In that moment, I think we were all faced with the challenge of like, are we gonna move in fear? Or are we gonna fight, And it was a symbolism to me that you know, our country, our security, everything stepped up right. We were aware and we were prepared for anything. And that's the same thing we were as a team Team USA. We had a talk and we were you know, shaken by that, but also it was like, this is the point we have on this USA uniform. We are fighters, we work hard, we don't

give up. And that moment, for me, it was just very symbolic because we had an opportunity to sort of power away or be like, you know, we're afraid, we don't want to go on with the Olympics or whatever, and it was just like, you know, a second that that comes in, it's like, no, we are we are USA, and no one's going to you know, stop us from fighting for our country. And although again I love and

respect our military. My husband flew um, he went to the Air Force Academy, he flew in Desert Storm and Desert Shield, um as well as my you know, my father,

my grandfather, and my uncle's my father in law. So our military means so much to me that I understand that they fight and protect us in such a way, but that for me was just like I thought about our our military and that you know, even though I'm just an athlete in this USA uniform, we have an opportunity to fight for our country and to still go out there. And so the nineties Olympics um will always be my favorite just because we were on us soil

fighting for our country. Yep, it's a wonderful memory. Yes, let me ask you a little bit about what you're doing now and we'll come back to the Olympics. Not all of our listeners know about Big three basketball, and you're a coach of a team and you've got some pretty outstanding players. So tell people about just a little bit about Big three basketball, how to get store the who's behind it, and how did you get involved. Yeah. So, first off, President Clinton, we have to have you at

a Big three game. You have a personal invitation in a court side seat because we would love to have you. And this amazing league was started by ice Cube, Jeff Quasnet, and Amy Trash, three amazing, brilliant people who came together to start this league. And you know, ice Cube is just he's really a genius in our time and so amazing that he would think of three on three for players who still have a lot in their tank, but maybe you know, just they don't have a spot on

the NBA team anymore. Although a lot of our players have been picked backed up by NBA team, So three on three or NBA men who um left the NBA or retired and have an opportunity to play three on three half court. We have an amazing game. That's the first team the fifty. You gotta win by two. We have three point shots, four point shots, uh, you name it. We also have something called fireball that was at it

last year, which is also brilliant. So ice Cube decided that if you want to challenge, you know, a foul call, unless it was an offensive foul, you can challenge that call and then go one on one. So we call

that fireball, which is also so exciting. And we were talking a little before the program started about real essite, how did you get into the lap Yeah, well, you know, Mr President, having the opportunity to play in the w n b A was really the first time that I was able to make money, you know, and I have also endorsement deals and so once I got there, I was very lucky and blessed to have an uncle, two uncles who aren't both um, they are both accountants, and

so having them, I went directly to my uncle, who you know, obviously was very well off, and I was like, how do I keep my money? What do I do? You know? And he was like, well, the first thing we need to do is, you know, open up your corporation and you need to go and get some real estate. So it really started in and having that advice, I

started to buy homes. I bought myself a home, then I bought my mom a home, which I kept in my name, and I started out like that really slowly, and I'm about to launch the first national Black um real estate agency across our country. We've never had one.

It's called Aston Rose. And the beauty of that is that it's gonna be an opportunity for all of us to be very inclusive with investing in athletes as well as entertainers and trying to not just help them with their real estate, but also to educate them because sometimes in the African American community, we we miss out on that educational opportunity of understanding how to keep your money.

And we know of so many athletes and people in the past who had millions of dollars and have nothing to show for it, whether after they retired in five years they have no money left or if they blew it all um just on things that really didn't appreciate. And so it's it's time. It's time for us to make that change. And I think for all of the things that happened with the pandemic and the social unrest really also gave us all clarity on the change that

needed to happen in our country. And so you can either talk about the change or you can be a part of the change. And so for me, I felt like, how can I be a part of the chain understanding that you know, we've been in situations where minorities were not allowed to live in certain areas or even have access to certain schools, and so we have to change that by how we invest and how we can create generational wealth. That's not something that happens by accident. Is

something that we have to educate. We have to come together as a community to do that. The thing that I found interesting is that there are we're really there are two different issues. One is you want to make sure that all athletes are fairly paid. The second, once they get paid that they you manage what they've earned so it can be valuable to them over a lifetime, long after they stop playing sports. And those are two

distinct problems, both worthy of pushing. I think so, Mr President, I think it's it's important to recognize that we don't have that education and not that it's hard to have the education about money when you don't have money. Let's just say that. And when you come from the inner city in the way most of us do, and a lot of the athletes and entertainers, Um, we've worked hard for where we are, Like, we're working as hard as we can. But where were you going to get this

education about financing? I mean, I went back to school to get my master's in business and that was probably, um, the first understanding and infrastructure of just like economics, you know, in general on a micro level, on a macro level, just understanding like oh wow, and things that are depreciating or understanding the stock market. That's a whole another level of education that is not necessarily provided. So where would

they know how would they know? You know, they don't, but they know that they're hard work and their talents is getting them a check. But now what do you do with that? And so there's uh. You know, we've been able to see some athletes do amazing things and be able to reinvest and get smarter about their money, but we've seen a lot who have no idea what they're doing, and after that retirement, within five years, statistically they're broke. We have to change that. I agree with that.

I think the goal of almost all social policy and economic policy should be empowerment. Yes, we should be. We should empower other people to live their best lives so that it may not be what you would do, it doesn't shouldn't be. We have a more interesting society if we don't make our own decisions, but you have to be empowered to make them. And I really appreciate what

you've done on that. I think it's important that we as African Americans in our country, our system had been so broken for us to be broken and separated apart, that we have to learn to come back together and we have to learn to invest in each other, and we have to be edgy catd um and educate each other. And so that's a part of the change that I want to be a part of. That's my new endeavor

for sure. More after this, if you ask any casual sports fan, what are some of the main storylines and all kinds of athletics over the last year or two, one of them would certainly have to be the freedom with which athletes have become to discuss the mental and emotional tensions and stress they feel, particularly those who are in dangerous sports. But we've seen that from Simone Bile through Naomi Osaka, Jamie Anderson that games, and and of

course MICHAELA. Schiffern has been unusually and I think appealingly straightforward about how she just sort of blocked out on her first events. And the thing I really liked about her is she said, I feel that I still feel like I failed, and I'm so touched that people are so nice to me, but I don't feel like I earned it. I mean that she's sort of caught in mid term with the challenges all people involved in great endeavor's face. But almost all great contests are at bottom

head game that is. I mean, you know, you had certain advantages playing basketball, you were taller than most people, but there was some other people who were pretty tall. I mean, if if given a fair distribution of effort and ability contests are mental battles, I think, So, what's your take on it. Is it a positive thing that we're getting more open about mental health? And how do you talk about these things in a way that doesn't

necessarily make the paralysis worse. I believe it's it's a real topic that people who feel that they need help should have access to that and not be looked at negatively. I do believe that there are things in life that we can do to even help with mental health, and that is giving people the tools to deal with it.

I remember a long time ago, I used to work with volunteers, probably the better work because I didn't get paid, but I worked with or volunteered to help UM Foster Boys, and I was working with the boys a lot, and I found that one on one UM talking to the boys and creating that relationship was amazing, Like I loved each of them and just had so much fun hanging

out with them. But I also realized when we got together there were times where if you date one was antagonized, or if they were challenged, they would become very aggressive, possibly fight. Like it was just a change, and I was interested to understand, like the chemical imbalance at times that would happen, it's because they didn't really understand how

to deal with their emotions. And so I believe that that's a real thing and things maybe we need to look for in children younger that may have behavioral issues sometimes or maybe seem sad more than others. Are paying a little bit more attention to the emotions of children and then finding ways to get them help. Now as we move more into the teens and the you know,

young adults, yeah, I believe. I believe it's real. Listen, we are older looking at them go through social media and you know, cyber bullying and a pandemic, and problems being canceled in college, opportunities being canceled. Like, they are going through a lot. It's very heavy for them, and no one could have prepared them for all of these negative things that are happening to them all at one time.

Then you add on that the possibility of not being financially secure or even knowing where your next meal is going to come from. I'm not sure you can't afford to have certain clothes or you know, there's a lot of elements that these young people are dealing with, um that maybe some of us are we passed that threshold

where we're not even thinking about that. But if I take myself back to my nineteen year old self and not knowing, you know, having five dollars to buy a burrito, and half my burrito I ate in the morning, and then my other half I ate, you know, before practice,

just to have enough food. I remember those days. I couldn't imagine you adding me trying to figure out how to where I'm gonna find my mill while I was at college or in high school, and a pandemic, you know, and some people in some close quarters dealing with COVID nineteen. So I could think that there are a million things right now that young people are dealing with that they cannot process the way we as adults can step back and go, well, listen, we have to be thankful that

we we can afford to be here. We have to be thankful that we have a house in the space. You know. There's so many things that we look at and we're just like, well, you've got to be thankful. But it's tougher for them. And I think it's important for us to have the conversations. It's more real again, giving us clarity in so many areas. Mental health is something that we have to be aware of and we have to check in on people and see how they're doing.

We are also a country that we believe in being first, you know, we we are a country that drives people. We were it's like second place is not acceptable. And we have that mentality in our workplace. We have that mentality in our sports, we have that mentality. You know, even you and country, our country as a leadership that you know, we will not be second place. That's tough to live up to. That's a lot of pressure. And

then let me just add social media. Social media for what it does to these young people and what they see and all of these again material things and how people are living makes them feel less than because they don't have it and they don't have the access to it.

So I believe it is real. It's just more to the forefront because this millennial generation, if you will, and even this younger generation, they are dealing with things that we did not have to deal with and they are not capable all the time of being able to process it and then go, hey, let me take a moment to meditate, let me be happy with myself, let me stop and learn to love myself. Let me be thankful for the blessings I have you. You have become a

wise woman. Thank you wisdom. I pray for wisdom. You probably always were now, but I always pray for wisdom and discernment, you know, to just to to be able to understand. I think my spiritual gift is my ability to speak. That's what God's blessed me with. Maybe someday you'll coach the Olympic team. All right, Mr President, I

really thank you for having me. It's an honor again to you know, be in your presence to talk to you than you and I know that it's you probably hear this all the time, but some of you presidents have such a voice that rings in our minds and our hearts, that gives us hope and stability and calm even during the storm. So it's great to hear your voice. God bless you. Tell ms Hillary, I said, hello, and thank you please as well. Thanks. Why am I telling you?

This is a production of our Heart Radio, the Clinton Foundation and at Will Medium. Our executive producers are Craigmanascian and Will Malnadi. Our production team includes Mitch Bluestein, Jamison Katsufas, Tom Galton, Sir Harrowitz, and Jake Young, with production support from Liz Raftoree and Josh Farnham. Original music by What White. Special thanks to John Sykes, John Davidson on hell Orina, Corey Ganstley, Kevin Thurm, Oscar Flores, and all our dedicated

staff and partners at the Clinton Foundation. Hi, this is Bill Clinton. I hope you're enjoying whin I telling you this. I started the Clinton Foundation on the belief that everyone deserves a chance to succeed, Everyone has a responsibility to act, and we all do better when we work together. In the more than twenty years since the Foundation first opened its doors in Harlem, we've brought people together across traditional divides to address some of the most complex and pressing

challenges of our time. The need for cooperation has never been more urgent than it is now. The COVID nineteen pandemic has ripped the cover off long standing in equities and vulnerabilities across our global community and here at home. The existential threat of climate change grows every day and all around the world. The forces of division are tugging

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