Nancy Jane Smith

anxiety coach. And we all need an anxiety coach. I feel like we all need one who's stuck, especially right now, who studied anxiety, inner critic and over functioning as a way of coping for the past twenty years. She's written several books, including The Happier Approach, Be Kind to Yourself, feel happier and still accomplish your goals, and she is here to share her unique perspective this Holy Human than Thank you so so much for coming on the Holy

Human podcast. I am just thrilled to have you because I love your book. Oh well, thank you so much for having me, and I'm so glad you loved the book. Yeah, I stumbled upon I actually don't know how I stumbled upon it. Somehow, some way. I was listening to on another podcast and I was like, I have to have her on because what you talk about in your book, the happier approach is I feel like I'm so textbook.

I'm like, this is me. Yes, I totally, and I think it's a textbook for a lot of other people too. I I was, you know that what we're going to be talking about here a lot today's anxiety. And I, you know, have have dealt with anxiety for many years, which I know you have also, and so many people do. That was shocked at this statistic that over forty million Americans at any point are dealing with some type of

anxiety disorder. And it's said that a lot of these people, some of us fall into what you call high functioning anxiety. So I would love for you to just start diving into what is high functioning anxiety? Like, how do you define it? Well, it's high functioning anxiety isn't something it's not gonna be. It's I'm the d s M. It's not something you're probably gonna get diagnosed with when you

go see someone. I always like to put that caveat there, but I stumbled upon it because I have always been told by my therapist that I had anxiety, but it never felt like how I thought anxiety should feel. You know, when I'm a therapist, so I know how anxiety should field. I never I always thought of it as I always push harder. So when I'm feeling anxious, what my anxiety

causes me to do is to push harder. So I think people that have high functioning anxiety tend to have a low level of anxiety all the time, and it's kind of their driving force of the thing that pushes them to hustle and hustle and hustle. And so I always say there's three layers to high functioning anxiety. One is the low level anxiety, and then every now and then that will go into acute, which means will have the you know, the racing heart, the insomnia, the gastro problems,

will have all these physical symptoms of our anxiety. And so that's just the anxiety. And then how we cope with that anxiety is we engage in overthinking and pushing harder and let me hustle and let me get that to do list done, and let me do all the things, because if I can do all the things, then I won't feel this level of anxiety. And then on top of that, or really underneath all that is shame that's driving the whole thing. Shame that we have anxiety, Shame

that we're not worthy enough. That causes the anxiety. And so shame plays a huge role in in this anxiety, that this high function anxiety that I work with. Interesting, Yeah, it's funny that you say that there's these levels to this because I feel like when I'm at the low level where it's kind of this like just in the background all the time, that feels like my natural state. So yeah, so I'm like, I'm good. I feel good in this state, and I'm I can get sh done.

It's true. And it's not till it gets really bad, um where I'm you know, I'm having the insomnia and I'm having the panic attacks. Do I think And like you're saying that a lot of people probably think, oh, that is anxiety, and it's it's almost it's crazy because I look, You're right, it drives me and it's helped what I believe has benefited me in a lot of ways. And I do think there's a bit of truth to that, but it's like, what, I don't even know what life

is without that. I don't even know what life is, and I think a lot of people don't without this low level in the background constantly playing. I love that you just broke it down that way because that just was like an eye opener for me because I was I'm thinking, oh, yeah, that's that's my field. Good state,

totally yes. And I think because I stumbled upon I mean, I started figuring this out because when I wrote the book which we'll talk about, I got into I named the main character in that book is the inner critic, and I called the ender critic a manger, and because manger spread propaganda, and that's what this manger is doing. And so I I believed at the time, and I still do. Everyone has a manger. Everyone has an inner critic.

Now some of us have like this demon inner critic who is just like that's what my husband calls mine, who's just like driving us so freaking hard. And and then I realized, Oh, the people that have that type of manger are dealing with anxiety and they're and it's pushing them into this high functioning anxiety. So so that's how my work kind of grew into a little selfish reasons because I was like, Oh, this explains my own world and why this is happening in your world. How

did you discover this piece for yourself? Like what was there a defining moment that was like, oh this makes complete sense, the piece about the monger or the piece about the high peace, about the high function Yeah, we have the whole funk whole thing with the high functioning anxiety. Like when did that click for you? It really clicked for me. I actually read UM Sarah Wilson's book, Um the Beast First We Make the Beast Beautiful, and I

just loved that book. And she's talking about bipolar, which is what she deals with, but I related to how she described anxiety and UM and so that's when my therapist had been telling me for years I had anxiety, and I was like, okay, whatever, like it's driving me, you know, I don't really see this as a problem.

And then when I read Oh, all these behaviors that I'm doing those our anxiety, I just had no clue that all these protective behaviors I had were because of anxiety, because part of what we do those when I said, we have anxiety, and then we engage in these behaviors such as perfectionism, people pleasing, overthinking, that to do list,

and you know, obsessing about stuff. And what we'll do is we'll get into we'll go to self help and we'll be like, oh, I need to stop people pleasing or I need to stop being a perfectionist, and so we take away those coping mechanisms and then we're left with anxiety and we don't know what to do with that, so we go back into people pleasing, perfectionism, overthinking, and

kind of driving everything even further. So through that book and then my own research, I realized, oh, all these behaviors that I'm doing are actually rooted in anxiety, and I need to deal with that anxiety, which I did not really want to do, which intern you're really dealing with shame, because like you said, that is underneath everything. And it's so interesting because I found myself doing it

many times. Like you, you step into the self help world and you're like, oh, I can it's another thing I can be good at. I can be a perfectionist at this, Like I can nail this, and it's like you kind of go in that loop for a while and then you're finding like, wait, I'm doing the same thing here that I was doing in the rest of my life, and it, you know, boils down to this I'm not good enoughness that ultimately is driving I feel like it is at the core of every single one

of us in some way, shape or form. And until we can fully step into this self love, self compassion piece that seems so out of reach, Like we talk about it a lot, but it seems so out of reach. Until we can fully do that, we're gonna just keep going round and round, and we're gonna find the next thing to be anxious about and to be good at. Yeah. I always joke that all of us, you know, personal

development people, we're all talking about the same thing. I mean, we're all talking about different symptoms, but our solutions are all the same. You know, I talked about self loyalty, which is another word for self passion. The answer is the same, it's just getting there. It takes a different path for all of us. Yeah. Absolutely. You said that high functioning anxiety is an attempt to keep people on the outside from seeing our insides, and you know, this

is where that shame piece kind of fits. And I wonder if you can just expand on what you mean by that. I frequently tell the story of growing up. A lot of my clients and myself and people have worked with grow up in families that did not encourage us to feel our feelings. They didn't encourage us that are whatever our experiences is valid, and so I often tell the story I call the story of the snake.

And if you were raised in a family where your little kid, you're playing on the front porch, you see a snake and you run in and you tell your mom, and most of us were raised in families where your mom is busy, or maybe she's an alcoholic, or she's just overwhelmed, and she's like, I can't deal with the snake right out, go out and play. You're you're you're crazy, there's no snake there. And so as a little kid,

you're like, oh, I must be wrong. Let me go back out and I'll keep playing even though there's a snake here, I'll keep playing. And so you quickly learned my reality isn't valid. I need to be checking in at tuning to everybody else. And so a family that grew up in you know, a healthy quote unquote with the mom would be like, oh, my gosh, there's a snake. Let's go look, and she would go with you and look and oh, that's scary, and would validate what's happening

and remove the snake. And so when we grew up in families where we've learned my experience that isn't important and actually your experience is more important. So I'm going to be able to mind read what's going to happen I need. I had one client who said she could tell by the time she crossed the threshold what the mood was in the house and what she used to do.

I get it to make that better. And so, you know, especially with your performing at such a young age, like that idea of what the crowd and what they need is more important. And so that's how we have tuned ourselves to everybody else's needs are more important than mine. I often have clients will say to me, I know I'm tired, but it doesn't matter that I'm tired, because they're more tired, and I can handle tired better than them.

I can suffer better than them. Really, Yeah, Wow, that's can we just stop there for a moment because I can suffer better than them? And holy crap, that is at I've been actually really playing with that piece for myself. I'm willing to let go of suffering. I'm willing. In fact,

it is funny. The other night I was driving home from Thanksgiving and a friend of mine was in the back of the car and she was saying she was going to rise up from the ashes again, and I go, do you think do you think it's time to like let go of that pattern? And as I said it to her, I said it to myself and it dawned on me. I was like, Oh, it's time to let

go of suffering. It's time to let go of that pattern. Like, we don't have to suffer an order to prove to ourselves that we are worthy of something, that we are worthy because we've overcome something. And man, wouldn't that light bulb? And I love that you just validated that for me again, it was like the universe going, it's time to stop suffering. But yeah, I think that is such a pattern for us in our society too. It's like we we have to prove that we we can overcome in order to

be worthy. Yes, yeah, And I often talk a lot with clients about there's pain. You're allowed to have pain, but you don't have to suffer because of the pain. You just need to experience that pain and move on. You know. Now, Now that sounds way easier said than done, but you know what I mean. Yes, yes, you can allow the pain to be there and move through you without having to latch onto it in order to That's what then causes the suffering because then we ultimately a

replaying these things over and over again. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, these are It sounds really easy, but it is. It's definitely deep, and it's a remembrance of sorts of this being kind of thrown up in our face like multiple times, which I love. Like I said, you just did for me is like oh yeah, I am going to let

go of that suffering now. I love it. You know what I loved about your book was that you broke down these voices in our head so eloquently, and you described the inner war that goes on in my head and I'm sure so many other people's so well. Um, you talk about you work with these voices. I would love to dive into what these voices are First off, you talk about the judge and the manger. You call

it the manger. Um, I was wondering, like, what in what way does the manger play a role in this anxiety and in continuing to have this anxiety go over and over and over again in our head. There's two main characters that cause the anxiety. The manger is the inner critic, the you did it wrong. You're such a loser, You're never gonna do this. You know, like I heard the manger a lot this morning as I was getting ready for this interview. You know, like she's just constantly

playing there. And you know, I always say that it's you know, she has don't stand Her rules are don't stand out, don't be vulnerable, and don't make a mistake, which if you're going to do anything in your life, you're going to do those three things. And it is that idea of she. I always say her Her intent is good, she's trying to keep us safe, but her messaging is shame and belittling and just really harsh. And so that's the voice that we hear so much about.

Here's the inner critic. You shouldn't have an inner critic. You know, like, how to deal with your inner critic, and the primary way to do with the inner critic, common wisdom is is to have self compassion. And I was like, what is said? What does that mean? How? And if I love myself no matter what, I'm not

gonna succeed because I need this bush this drive. My favorite story on this is I did a presentation and one of my best friends was there on the manger and she came up to me after and she was like, that was great. I loved it. Oh my gosh, I'm not gonna do anything you said because I need that voice. Nancy. And I got home, and this is what inspired me to write the book. I got home and I was like, I do too. She's right, and I, you know, felt like such a fraud because here I was teaching people

how to get rid of that voice. But at the same time, I secretly loved her. And so that's the thing. We need to be honest about that. Even though we're like, oh, I hate my inner critic, no, we actually kind of love her too, because she we think she drives us. So it's this love hate relationship with her that gets us in trouble. And before we dive deeper into that relationship. We are going to take a quick break, but we'll

be right back. Welcome back, Loves. We're talking to Nancy Jane Smith about just how complicated our relationship with our inner critic can be. Yeah, that is completely true. I have been playing around with that idea for myself of like is there a gentler way to do this? Like is there a gentler way to have success? Is there

a kinder, gentler way? And I know there is, But you're right, it's this love hate relationship with the monger that you you think that that's the only way to be driven, that's the only thing that's going to keep you. For me, like in line because interestingly enough, this BF you you talk about the BFF in your head. For me, my BFF is what I feel is like my rebellious fifteen year old and she's awesome by the way. Um,

I've learned to love her. I used to. For me, it was I would beat myself up about like I absolutely hate this piece of me because it's the one that self sabotages everything and it's you know, it's and there was this constant battle between the judge and my BFF, My fifteen year old that just would let me, wants me to just rebel against everything, and so that inner war is like all I wanna do is shut that war up. Like it's like and how what what can I take to numb myself out? What can I do

to shut them up? I mean, and you when you when I read that about about that in your book, I was like, oh my god, I've never heard anyone explain this so perfectly. So so yeah, would you go into the BF a little bit and like this war in between between them? I mean I I described it for myself, but I would love, you know, for people that aren't in my head. But you can describe a little bit more about what these what the BFF does,

and how these two interact on a daily basis. Yeah, so the monger is, you know, the one driving us. You're such a loser, blah blah blah. And then in comes the BFF. I don't worry about it. You know, let's go home and we'll just have another glass of wine. What does have a glass wine? It'll be fine. And then you know, all the wine feels good. Okay, we'll have three glasses, no big deal, and it she kind of is as the manger pulls up the pressure on the pressure cooker, the BFF is there to to take

it back down. And the other way the BFF shows up. It's not just through the traditional ways you would think of eating and you know, drinking too much and um, you know, skipping your workout and don't worry about it. But also she shows up as the one who's judging other people, like if something doesn't go well, oh, it's their fault. There the reason that it didn't go well. So the manger is telling you how much you failed, and then to ease that pressure, you come in to blame.

You know, Betty Sue at work, it's her fault that it didn't go well. So this this happens like a great example, It happens in break rooms everywhere that you know, you you hang up the phone and your manger is getting fired up and said you go into the break room and you're like and you're venting about what happened. And then before long, now you're demonizing the person that was on the phone. But when you walked into the break room, you were demonizing yourself. And so we love

that energy with the BFF with other people. The venting that that let's beat each other, you know, let's gossip, let's do that is another way that BFF shows up. And so she appears to have our best interests at heart, but she she doesn't because she's just trying to have a good time and too offset. She's like the opposite end of the pendulum of our monger. You just explain all of what we see on social media. Yes, yeah, absolutely, that is everybody's BFF talking. Yes, my goodness, it is.

And it's intense. Yeah, it's And it is amazing how we utilize that piece um in order to feel better. And if we could only if we could only get in there with our with our judge and and the judge and jury and quiet them down a little bit, maybe that wouldn't be such a such a hook, you know. I mean. And what's so interesting about the judge that you talk about two is that ultimate lee there is kind of I would say, a reason to love them in a way because they're also there for a protective mechanism.

So if we can look at it from that view of like, here's this voice in my head that ultimately is trying to protect me from shame and guilt, and like all the things, then maybe that's where this compassion actually starts to come in. It is like, oh, this part of me isn't really trying to harm me, it's

trying to love me, just in the wrong way. Yes, absolutely, because I think that's where we go wrong is we start you know, like you'll hear things called the inner bitch, and you know, we'll start demonizing both of those voices, and like you said, it's they're parts of us, so we need to love them there it's the fifteen year old and the curmudgeon lee, you know voice that are they're trying to to guide us through the best they know how m And so it's not about demonizing, which

I think we want to do, but about kind of embracing them and seeing what it is because they're serving a purpose. What is it they need? Mm hmm. Absolutely the self compassion piece. You know, like I said, sometimes it feels like it's all out there and we can't grasp it and we can't we can really wrap our mind around it, but we can't implement it into our everyday lives. Like when it comes to that piece, what do you think we're getting wrong or what do you

think we're misunderstanding. That is why I started using the term self loyalty, which to me is explain, yeah, explain what that is. Yeah. So I found a lot of my clients and myself we have a really high loyalty value, meaning we know how to be loyal to others. If if you are in my inner circle, man, you are there for a long for death. You know, like, I am very loyal, But I don't know how to do that to myself. I don't. So I know what loyalty means. I know how to show up for people. I know

to have their backs. I know how to be supportive and understanding and forgiving and curious and non judgmental. But I don't know how to do that for myself. And so that's when i'm the you know, the words I'll say to myself is have your own back, be your own teammate here, and what what do you need? How would that look? And so that idea of oh, I'm tired, okay, have your own back on that, I'm tired, I'm gonna go rest. I don't need to, you know, like that

Figuring that out kind of goes in stages. So initially people will say I'm tired, and the monger will be like, you shouldn't be tired. You haven't done anything. What's your problem? And then the middle ground is I'm tired. I deserve to rest because I did all these things. And so I deserve to rest because I did all these things. And the third stage of that is I'm tired. My body is telling me I'm tired. I don't need to justify why I'm tired. It just is a thing. And

that's not a good thing or a bad thing. It's just a biological need. So I just need to rest. And so that's the power, that's the power of self loyalty. Is what is it that I need? How can I be radically honest with myself and be like, Okay, we need to rest, but we can't right now because we're doing stuff. So what do I need to do to take care of myself and not be criticizing myself for the fact that I'm tired, but supporting myself through the fact that I'm tired and I can't rest. I love that.

That's really clear um for me. I know that in the past several months now, I have been really working

on consistency with self care and that consistent piece. The consistency pieces changed my life in a lot of ways because like there are things now from my own health, Like I've really been focusing on my body and my health and it is you know, I'm I'm thirty nine, I'm gonna be forty next year, and I'm like, my hormones are changing, things are changing, and so I'm like, I really want to start on start on my forties

out of the right foot. So I've just really been really consistent with myself and it's quieted for me at least, it's quieted the inner critic a lot. And I'm starting to see for me, it's like, oh, I think this is what self love is. I think this is what self compassion is. The compassion pieces still working on it, but the self love is like the ultimately putting my health and myself first. And then there's the certain things

just are not non negotiable for me. And that that's where when you say loyalty, I'm like, oh, sometimes I sometimes I change things in my life or things shift and I I can't quite put my finger on what it is, but it's working. And and I think you just did because it's that it's that loyalty piece where in the past, like you've mentioned, when we're hyper vigilant,

it's like everybody else's experiences is more important. And I think it took my health for me at least to finally understand the like, oh, I actually this is this is putting myself first. This is taking care of me and being loyal to me, because if we don't exist like no one else and we're not going to help anybody else, right right, yeah, And I think that practice then, you know, as you said, like it calms us down. It's kind of a self soothing of oh, I'm going

to show up at this time all the time. I'm gonna do this thing all the time, And then we start getting our bodies can relax a little bit because we're like, this is going to be taken care of. You know, Leanne has this. Even if it is I'm not saying like lean has this, She's gonna give me enough water. You know that sounds weird that your body is talking like that, but I'm more saying that, you know,

lean isn't gonna drive me. She's going to consistently have my back, She's going to consistently show up here, and so in that case I can relax. I don't have to be so hyper vigilant. M What do you think drives us? This is something I've been playing around with. Two. What do you think drives us? If we're not being driven by this anxiety, this constant underlying energy, it's And before we go into that, I actually wanted to say, sometimes my manger isn't a UM isn't. It's not a

set of words that are going on anymore. Sometimes it's just an energetic piece that I which can almost be more elusive, and it feels like I can't quite tap into it because it's just an energy. And so this energy can come up where it's almost an energy of shaming or of guilt um, but it doesn't have a story to go with it, which I always feel is a really kind of it's a it's an icky feeling

because you can't. I wish it had a story sometimes, you know, like I wish it had something going on, and that's why, Yeah, so because that would be easier to then unhook. But once it's feeling, you're kind then you can get stuck in what's happening? What is this feeling? Like? What am I doing. I mean, that's what I do.

Then I start spinning out. I'm trying to figure it out and analyze it and name it and yeah, totally, yeah, that's what That's why I find that the energetic piece of it is is interesting, Like when you don't have a story going on in your head, when it is an energy for you to like, where do you go to to to work with that piece? So that I go, I will, um, much to my much to my chagrin, i will pull out a feelings sheep that I have,

and I'll acknowledge what it is I'm feeling. And for me, that's a way for me to kind of figure out what's really going on, UM, because I'm not real good at naming and knowing what I'm feeling because I've just been programmed so much of You should be happy, you should be happy that I have a hard time getting

in there and figuring out what's really going on. And so I'll pull out the feeling sheet and I'll name like fifteen feelings and inevitably I'll get to it, like I'll be like, oh, I'm sad here and I didn't know it, Like I am continually amazed how I can hide my you know, bad feelings or however you want to say it. And I say that because they're not happy. And in my mind, that's the only way you should be. That's that's which is a bad belief. There's another bad um. Yes,

And I'm continually amazed at how I can. I'll be I'll like, something big will be happening, such as like an illness in the family or something, and I will at the end of the day be like, oh, I'm so upset, and my husband will be like, dude, you just found out about this terrible news. And I'll be like, oh, right, like you know, and I'm like, I'm not upset about that. I was totally fine. That isn't bothering me. But it is, and I don't realize it is because I've gotten so

good at masking that stuff. So um. And then another thing is I'll do is I'll just get into my body and I'll do like a full body movement and that helps me kind of unshake some stuff and see what's there. I love that. How do you define happy? Um? You know, I have a saying here that is the definition of peace, and you might have heard it before, but I think this is happy. It does not mean to be in a place where where there is no noise,

trouble or hard work. It means to be in the midst of those things and still be calm in your heart. To me, that's happy where I can just be fully present to what's happening and enjoying it. I love that, and maybe not even enjoying for me, it's like, maybe it's not even enjoying it all the time. It's just fully present and not wanting to eject yes from the moment. Yeah, that's well said. Yeah, man, do I know about how to reject from the moment? I have a master at it.

Oh wow. Yeah. And and allowing everything to be at once, like there can be multiple things happening, you know for me, like what I love about what you just said, And if I really break that down for myself, what I love about happiness is kind of all encompassing of the experience. It's not you know, like and and multiple things, multiple feelings can exist at one time. Yes, yes, yeah, it took me forever to get that concept. Forever. Yeah, yeah,

I understand, I understand it takes a while. Um, and I have to be constantly reminded of it, But yeah, I love that definition of happy. Like that just kind of I just felt really settled because we were constantly chasing it. You know. It's like, oh, we think, you know, we think it's out there, and we think it's the validation, we think it's all the things. But when you break it down like that as the all encompassing thing, I mean, it's like, you know, talking about wholeness, it's like our

whole experience. When we can actually be in it and with it, like oh, that just feels like it relaxes my need to go find it out there. Yeah, it's so you know, I always I'm always like, how do I teach people to get this? How do I teach people? And And there is something that shifted in me when I that I could embrace that I was human and I was gonna make mistakes and things weren't always going to go well, and that I would still be okay even if that happened. I mean, that's an ongoing process.

I'm not saying I've embraced that, but but once I could really get that in a different way, um, things shifted. But I don't know what happened that caused that realization to come, you know, for me to accept my human nous. And on that lovely powerful note, we are going to take a breath, but we'll be right back, and we're back with Nancy Jane Smith discussing the powerful inner shift when we embrace our true selves, imperfections and all. For me personally, I had to be broken down to my humans.

And I think that that it's I think it's the journey we all go on, you know, to some extent and at different levels and um, you know, in many different ways. But it's like you almost have to be broken down to it to appreciate it and to accept I think, yeah, I think you're right, and that is just you know, I just think about all the money I spent on self help books and you know, trying to get the one two three solution, and if only

I did this, then I could be healed. And then to recognize now, like you had to do this part of the journey, yeah yeah, and that that that acceptance of that part of the acceptance of the whole journey, yeah yeah, and knowing that we couldn't skip over it and be where we are, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's still hard for me. But yeah, I agree. I agree. Sometimes it's like, oh but if only I could have

made that decision and my life would look different. Um. Yeah, and the forgiveness, you know, there's a huge forgiveness piece and that too. Um yeah, it's all still a part. I think it's all a part of our human journey, like until we die, Like this is it? Yes, I totally agree. Yeah there is no finish line. Yeah yeah, good time. So just for everyone listening, there is no finish lines. You can stop listening to stop this. We

now stop looking for it. Just live your life. Oh my god, I um, I love that you you came up with this acronym. Well, first off, I actually wanted to get into the piece of what you call the third voice, which is the um oh my god, I'm just say bff, it's your biggest fan, which your biggest fan. Which I love this piece because I know when I've when I started to develop this piece for myself, it's still developing and it's taking. It's taken a long time

because it's it's very quiet. Sometimes I have no words for this piece of me, um, and I can get very frustrated. The manger comes into then, you know, so then tell me that I'm not doing it right, which I think is in a lot of our self help stuff. When we start to do this work and and we try to start developing this self compassion piece, this manger is like, you're not doing it right, and you don't have the right words for it, and all the things. So tell us about the biggest fan and why why

it's so quiet at the beginning. I mean, obviously we haven't we haven't cultivated it, but why is it so quiet? Um? So, the biggest fan is the voice of the mangers on one side and the BFFs on the other. Than the biggest fan is kind of that middle voice, and so I like to say she takes the dry i've of the manger, but the compassion of the bff And so she is the voice that is wise and kind and honest.

Who will say, hey, Nancy, you're you know, you said you were going to write a thousand words today and you haven't sat down with the computer. So this is a goal. We need to do this, Versus you're such a loser. Here you go again. You made a false promise. She said you write a thousand words, and I haven't seen you do anything and this is what you do and you know, all the stuff of the monger, or

skip it. Let's go downstairs and watch some real housewives and need some reci cups and never mind about the thousand words, which is the BF. She's gonna hold our feet to the fire, but do it with kindness. And so that piece was, you know, when I realized that, I was like, oh my gosh, this is so foreign to me. I don't know what this sounds like. And I think that having I think the reason it's so quiet is because we don't have a lot of models of voice is that are kind and hold our feet

to the fire. You know a lot of stuff, everything that is motivational out there is more shaming and belittling and pushing and pushing, and back to the snake story that I told at the beginning, we don't have that model of what you're feeling is okay. Your experience is okay because it's your experience, and so let's start looking at that rather than constantly thinking we need to be

doing and being something else. Yeah, this is kind of where that reparenting piece comes in, basically, as we have to not only I'm like, this is where it gets really complicated because we're not we don't have a role model for that and most of the time, and so therefore we have to develop that piece within us and do I'm like, I feel like one piece of me is doing all the work, you know, at this self help work, and then like, I'm I'm supposed to also

develop a parent that's supposed to take care of me. It's like, well, I mean that just seems super complicated, like let me split myself into five million pieces, But but it is. It's you're really retraining and re you're reworking the inner workings of how we speak to ourselves, right like ultimately, yes, yeah, yeah, that's ultimately. And so when people are like, Okay, I want to develop my BF, I mean it's not my BF. We got those done, my my my biggest fan. Um, where where do we begin?

All Right? Well, I have to say, if I could go back and rename the BFF and the Biggest Fan, I totally would because the B and the F they just miss you know, it's the alliteration. There is just all but whatever, it's no, it's good, it's it's very clear when you know who, you know who the players are, right, Yes, um so again much. I. I always joke that I went into therapy so that I could learn how to think myself out of my feelings and could analyze them away.

And and really the where the power is in two things. One acknowledging what you're feeling, and two getting into your body and slowing everything down. And those are two things that especially people with I functioning anxiety do not want to do. I do not want to slow down. I do. I want to keep going. And you know, like my husband, I'll come downstairs and he'll be like, honey, I think you should take a deep breath, and I just want

to punch him in the face. You know. I'm like, I don't have time to take a deeper like I stop to do. I'm busy. I'm busy, so um so. I. I I always hated it when people when you read stuff and they're like, you need to slow down, and I would be like, so I did um acknowledging your feelings. The acronym that I used to get in touch with

your biggest fan is ask. And I say that because you're gonna ask to hear from your biggest fan, and so you're gonna acknowledge your feelings, and so, like I said, I pull out a feeling sheet and I, um, look and you can google that online. You can print those out online. They're great. Laminate it, keep it, keep it in your car. Yes, do that's right there, and then I'll pull that out and just start naming what it

is I'm feeling. And you know, I can remember years ago I did a presentation on this and I used the phrase feel your feelings, which I hate that phrase, but I came out of my mouth and the guy in front of in the front where I was like, oh jeez, he groaned and he was like you had me until that, like, really, how are we going to feel your feelings? What does that even mean? And I told M that's why I hate the phrase, because I have spent most of my life being like, what does

it mean feel my feelings? Like how do I do that? And so this, But the power I realized through research, through my own experience is if you just name them, it really is powerful to just label what they are and be like, ah, all that's there. Like you said, I can feel a ton of feelings all at the same time. And I had no realization of this, and so Acknowledging your feelings is first, because that is thing.

It's a bit of an intellectual exercise. So even if I'm going a thousand miles an hour, I can kind of play around with what am I feeling and kind of acknowledge that, and I'm still being productive quote unquote, but I'm in my head. That feels safe. That feels safe, yes, um.

And then it is slowed down and get into your body, and that is I encourage you wele to do a full body movement with that meaning stand up, stretch, wiggle, um, you know, do a dance in your office, put on your favorite music, like something that gets you out of your head and into your body. And then the last k is kindly pulled back to see the big picture. Because our mongers tend to keep us in this black and white there's a right way and there's a wrong

way to do everything. And so when we can pull back and see, ah, there's much what challenged myself to find all the different options here, then the world gets a little bigger and it's less scary. And that is what the biggest fan does is let's us see a bigger world. Got it? See that? That is the piece you know you're saying that feel your feelings? How do

I feel my feelings? Sometimes? This is the piece that's challenging for me, is how do how do I pull back and see the bigger picture when it's like everything feels so you know, um pen pointed in like this one area. It's like that. That's the that's the challenging piece for me. It's like the pull back and see the bigger picture. And I guess maybe I'm not in my body. Maybe maybe that's the thing is I'm still in my head and that doesn't allow me to see

pull back and see the bigger picture. Maybe I'm just answering my own question right now. I'm like, oh yeah, maybe I'm not in my body. Maybe that's the that's the key piece because it is you know, I will say to people because a common wisdom is kind of like, oh, think of your best friend, and what what would you say to your best friend? And and you know, my best friend is kind of my bff. You know, she's always up to you. Always, she's for a good time.

You for a good time. Like if I tell her something's wrong, she'll be like, well, let's go kill him. Like this is she's the very of the body friend is Burnet Brown would say, she is not gonna be like, oh, Nancy, what do you really want to do here? And let's you know. But if I think about so for me, I think about my niece who is in college right now, and she's someone that I would mentor and I love and I really want, you know, I really want to

build self loyalty in her. And so then I that challenges me to think about, oh, what would I say to her? How would I challenge her to see to pull back? And so sometimes that can help us by getting out of our own situation and seeing it through someone else's eyes. I like that. Yeah, that's super helpful. Um, I wanted to talk to you. I mentioned social media earlier, and I found this about you so interesting. Well, first off,

I pay attention and question everything. Have become your guiding princess to your life and with your practice, and I was wondering why those are such key pieces for you, because there's a lot out there that needs to be questioned. Well, but sometimes I mean question everything sometimes, you know, as the way that we've been raised, especially as women like we're not we're taught not to question everything. We're taught to just kind of roll with it and questioning things

because questioning things rocks the boat. And we're taught to be good little girls and good little boys. And that's why I think, I mean, and I agree with you, there's so much out there to be questioned. So yeah, I mean, how do you Did you ever have that piece in your life of where you you were afraid to question things? And that's why it's a guiding force because it's still in my life because it's I mean,

I am. I will happily drink the kool aid all over the place, you know, like like that just is

My default is to drink the kool aid. And so that's why I challenge myself to do that because as I don't question, if someone says something, I'm like, oh, yeah, that makes sense, yeah, you know, and then later I'm like, wait a minute, that didn't make sense at all, or that doesn't that doesn't fit me, you know, And and even listening to podcasts and stuff like, I will listen for what's the thing that's going to solve this problem for me? Instead of Oh, this worked for them, How

can I apply what worked for them into me? Some but I don't have to. I don't have to drink the whole kool aid. Maybe it's just a little bit fits and that's hard for me too, And so that's why change. Having that guiding principle is just reminds me too. Not everyone knows better than you, Nancy. You know some stuff too. Yes, oh my gosh. People ask me all the time and interviews of what I would tell my fourteen year old self, and that that's always my answer

is you trust you, like you know. I remember being so connected to my own intuition as children, I mean, we all are. And then there was like the world and all of these voices of people who were making money off of me and who knew better like I thought. And so it's like I just followed the leader, and that didn't get me very far when it came to

like so many things. And so these last several years of my life have been to paying like returning home to my own truth, and which I want I applaud you for following your own truth, because when it comes to social media, you basically went you went off correct, like completely yeah, and I'm still off yeah. Do you what what made yeah? You still and still like you're sticking to that. I'm sticking to that. Yeah, alright, hold that thought, because we're going to pause for a brief break.

We'll be right that. All right, friends, Once again, we are here with Nancy Jane Smith discussing the mental health benefits that she has found from taking a break from social media. How long have you been off? Um? About a year? It was a year ago July that I went off. And it was really kind of like I'm going off, Like it wasn't like debating for a long time. It was right after the George Floyd murder and there was all this performative stuff on Instagram, and I'm like,

I don't want why am I on this? What? How is this helping me or anyone? That we're all turning our squares black? You know, like who cares? And I really started paying attention to that. And I noticed that even in my business, like I wasn't writing blog posts or doing great podcast I was just trying to put something on Instagram instead of really diving into my work. And so that was my experiment. I'm gonna go off of it and see if my work gets richer by

doing that. And it did. It's and and my life is so much better, Like I now reach out to people and actually connect with them instead of just doing a blanket post on social media about this is what's happening, and you know it. It's there's more connection. It is dramatically decreased my anxiety. Really yeah, wow, interesting, Well, that performative piece, especially for us high functioners, UM, is such a huge part of why we're high functioning anxiety, why

we have it in the first place. So I'm sure social media, like I know, I have to be very aware of I mean, it is part of knowing. I know you have an argument for this too, that it is part of our job. It is part of my job. Um. I do feel that, UM, and I know that that's

it's such a key piece to what I do. And at the same time, like I don't let it run my life, and I think there's a fine line, like you really have to be I was just talking I actually have someone who helps me, you know, run my social media, and it's we were just talking about how we've gotten to a place where it feels like people

know me. But it's like, but I still have my life for myself, which is this Really it's a it's a place that most mostly only celeprities have had to that line that we've had to dance upon, but now like everybody dances upon that line. Yes, yeah, I mean what have you found when it comes to your business? I just find this so fascinating, like what have you found? Um, like, how has your business deepened or strength? And how is this strength in your business? You know, It's funny. For

a long time I had my Instagram was up. I wasn't on it, but it stayed up and until like I think like six months ago, I finally deactivated it. But um but but I would do a podcast interview somewhere and I'd get all these likes, and the first thing it says on my page is I am no

longer on Instagram. And I have the podcast explaining why I'm not on Instagram there, But it didn't matter, Like people were just like like like like so, um, so I'm getting more people to sign up for my newsletter, Like that's the only way you can hear from me is if you go to my newsletter, and which I write a weekly newsletter and and it's much deeper and richer than it was when I was doing these little

Instagram posts, so it hasn't you know. I'm busier now than I was when I was on social media by far, and I don't know what's causing what. I don't know. Will I eventually need to go on because my business will get to a place where I'll need it, I don't know. But right now I am thankful that I don't have to be on it, and I have my podcast in my blog and I devote a ton of a time and attention to those, and that seems to

be cutting it. I love that. Good for you, I mean seriously good for you, because and it is we there's so many there's so many beliefs around social media and itself of for business, and um you know that that key piece of getting that external validation. It's like, well, I mean, imagine the validation we would have to give ourselves if we didn't like that, Because that was something

else that I noticed. People would email me and say, oh my gosh, your your work is changing my life, this is so incredible, and I would be like, oh, well they didn't, you know, they're not gonna They're not they didn't buy a book or they didn't buy a course. They're just emailing me, and I was like, what are

you doing? Girl? You are changing people's lives and that isn't enough for you, Like, you know, I kept moving the bar and moving the bar, and so that's something else that I've quit kind of chasing the vanity um metrics and have been like, Wow, I touched this person's life.

Isn't that awesome? You know? And being able to kind of just be aware of that, And then it really was I made the decision if I don't want to be in business, if I have to be on social media, like that became my my point, like I'm gonna keep doing what I do and if I have to be on social media to do that, then I don't want to have to do this anymore. And there is your

there's your self loyalty piece, which I love. Yeah, I mean I think with that loyalty it comes boundaries, and boundaries are a huge piece and and it's it it's

so key, Like I'm what I'm learning right now. I'm doing a bunch of nutrition stuff for myself for myself my own health, like I was mentioning, and it's like I'm realizing how each of us are so unique, like and our our health, our food, our boundaries, our like everything is so unique to us if if we so choose to see it that way and actually get to

know ourselves. And once you start to realize how unique you are, you start to stop buying into all these blanketed statements and bullshit and things like that are for the quote unquote masses. I don't like. I just believe once you start really understanding your uniqueness, I think there you start to kind of naturally start to move into that stuff loyalty piece. And I totally applaud you for that, because that's that's a huge piece. That's a huge, huge step,

especially for someone who runs a business. Um, it's nice to see that you're living example that you can do it outside of of being involved it is. It's good. Well, thank you. I always ask my guest. I'm of course, I love music, and I always ask my guests they're holy We call this the Holy five, their top five songs. And this could be from like what you're listening to now, it could be from your lifetime, but I would love

to know what music makes you. Take. Okay, So it's funny because my husband and I drove to had a six hour commute over weekend and so we binged your podcast and so yeah, I love it. And it was so funny to hear people's you know take on this uh from the here's the songs that are on my workout playlist two here's you know, just random music. So mine all have meaning to me, and I even wrote out the lyrics that particularly were of meaning. I love you for this. You have no idea. You're making my

virgo heart so happy right now. So the song is Crazy as Me by Alison Krauss, and this was the song that that I walked down the aisle too to my husband because the line is I'm used to being alone, which was I was alone. We didn't get married till I was a thirty nine, and so I always thought I was going to be never get married, And so it says I'm used to being alone, and then some folks seem to think I only got one problem. I

can't find nobody as crazy as me. I used to be in alone, my playings with them, rings and photos, it up with the phone, so good. How long have you been married? Ten years? I love it? So he is as crazy as me, I'm sure. And then I had going to the wedding. I loved her first by Heartland, which was the song that my dad and I sang Your Dance Too, And the lyric in that is I know the love. I knew the love of a father runs deep. And I prayed that she'd find you someday.

But it's still hard to give her away. That she found you someday, but it's still hard to give her. I loved her. I knows. I'm not singing any of these lyrics. I'm just reading them to you. I really I appreciate though, the feeling that it's coming with it. So it's good. Um, because my dad also never thought I was gonna get married, so I think he was so excited that when I actually pulled that off. And then Mercy by Dave Matthews Band. Um is a huge Dave Matthews Band fan, and so he has brought me

into the fold. And so and my favorite line from that is I got to say that love is not a whisper or a weakness. No, love is strong, strong, got to get together, got gotta get gotta get So I love that reminder song. And and then Incomplete by Alanis Morrisset, which is just one of my favorite reminders.

Have I been running so sweaty my whole life, urge it for a finish line, and have been missing the rapture this whole time of being forever in missing rapture these hops time fever, Yes, And I think that is the key right there. And then the last one is takes you back to high school and Sting And he wrote soul Cages, which is an album that he wrote for his which I'm a huge Sting fan. Um. He wrote soul Cages for the death of his father and it was interesting. After my father died, I found so

much um healing in that album. And we'd listen to that album and just sob which was very healing. But I loved um the line of Blessed are the poor, for they shall inherit the earth. Better to be poor than a fat man in the eye of the needle show. Mm wow yeah, wow. Oh men, you just sat by the way. You just set a new bar for people coming on and talking about those songs. I mean, not only am I'm gonna be like, can you write the lyrics that you love doing? Because that was awesome. Oh

my gosh, thank you for that. That was beautiful. Yeah, thank you for sharing that because I know, I mean music for me is you know, it's a It shares such a vulnerable, deep piece of us. And for you sharing those lyrics, thank you for thank you for showing up so vulnerably. I really do appreciate it. Yeah. No, it was so much fun and it was a fun thing to do over the holiday was to ask people what their five favorite songs are. I we had some

good conversations around it, so amazing party conversation piece. I love it. I love it well. Thank you for coming on here and sharing your wisdom, and thank you for using utilizing your life experience to help others. Um that is truly I think what we're here to do, and you're doing a beautiful job of it. So thank you so much. Right back at you. Thank thank you so much for for this whole project. You're doing beautiful. Thank you. And that's a wrap for this episode of Holy Human Again.

Nancy's book is called The Happier Approach. Be kind to yourself, feel happier and still accomplish your goals. I hope you found it as helpful as I did. And if you love this episode, please hope free to pass it along. And share it with someone in your life you think could benefit from a listen. Also make sure you leave me your feedback wherever you listen, because I love reading your thoughts and comments. On the next Holy Human, you'll meet a woman who has had a profound impact on

my life and my body, Dr Mendi Pelts. She is a woman who will absolutely change the way you see your health and food forever. I can't even begin to put into words how much she has changed the way I look at my body, my hormones, uh food, I mean everything, and be prepared to question everything you thought you knew about the way to fuel your body and mine for optimal results and vibrancy. I guess that's the word that comes to mind. This one is a game changer,

I promise. So until then, everyone take care for one another. I love you, Bye, Holy Human with me. Leanne Rhymes is a