Katie Peuvrelle

So we are going to dive into the final episode right now. I am welcoming a woman who has had a huge impact on my life in a relatively short amount of time. Katie Prevail is a performance coach who guides high performers to find deeper joy and fulfillment on both professional and personal levels. She's also the author of Leap Own Your Excellence and Engage Your Best Self. I found this book to be a game changer for me and I cannot wait for you to meet Katie on

today's episode. I'm Holy here. Yeah, Yeah, this is amazing. I'm so excited. Hi, Katie, mak you so much for coming on here. Just to give people a backstory, I met Katie through Mindy Pells, who is on our podcast not long ago, and um, yeah, Mindy and I started working on everything body, and she was like, I have

this woman who's absolutely incredible. She wrote this book called Leap Um, which I've had many people tell me you should read the book Leap, you should read the book Leap And then all of a sudden, Mindy brought it up, and I'm like, Okay, I'm going to dive into this book, see what Katie is all about. And it was just yeah,

it was. It was a very expansive book for me and as a performer, especially because you talk all about performance, which we'll get into, but I'm I'm so glad Mindy introduced us, and Katie has become a huge part of my life, and so I thought we'd we dive into

your book a little bit. But I also want to explore some of the things that you and I've personally been working on, because you know, as this podcast is called Holy Human, I think, um, the things that we have been working on together really fit into this wholeness piece everything that I've been looking to do with my life, not only as a performer but as a human. And I think people who listen are looking to do the same.

So that's kind of the backstory of I would love to hear, and I know our listeners would love to hear, Like if you could explain to anyone? And I ask people this a lot because I feel like people I bring on here, it's not clear cut, like what do you do? So what what if someone was to meet you for the first time, how would you explain what you do to someone? That is the million dollar question. You're like, I'm still figuring that out. How long have

you got faceted? It's multifaceted, as are we humans? Right, that's a little little plug in there for that. Um. One of the things I've been saying recently is that I'm I'm on a mission to bring kindness and connection

to the pursuit of excellence. And yeah, so that's one of the things that is meaningful to me as well as helping I help high performers in all different forms or any humans in their realm of human performance bring more of who they really are into what they do so they can live a life that's more fulfilling and more joyous. That's interesting because I think when I think

of the pursuit of excellence. Kindness and connection are not the first two things that I think of, especially not only outwardly, because I think there's there's a lot of competition, you know, and we've we've been, we've grown up around I know I have personally around competition, especially with other women. Absolutely, but it's not only that outwardly, but it's internally is what I feel. And here when you say that, I'm

so glad, that's what I think too. It's it's a kindness to self, and it's a kindness to others and almost a kindness to all of the circumstances that tend to come in to high performance. As you know, I grew up as a figure skater, which is an extremely competitive, kind of unforgiving world for young women. And I think part of my mission is to kind of heal a big part of myself as well as heal other humans that are in that space of really appreciating it's excellence.

And it's also like bringing all of you to whatever you do because it matters to you, um, and learning to bring yourself to that with perhaps less judgment and more kindness. Yeah, I mean, I think whether or not you're an actual performer, I think we're all performing, right, Yes, life is a performance. Didn't Shakespeare say something like that

life is a stage? And it's true though, And I think there's we can utilize that, I guess with kindness and connection, or it can go completely the opposite way, where we we feel like we're always having to be on. I know this is something you and I talked about a lot, Like I always feel like I have to be on, and it doesn't really shut off, even in my personal relationships or when I'm when I'm not playing Leanne rhymes, but I'm just being Leanne. It's like, Okay,

I didn't know. I don't know where that off switches. And I think people can get locked into we can get so locked into our performances of who we think we need to be that exactly, it just kind of spills over into all different parts of our lives. It sure does. And I think sometimes recognizing that maybe if we can find an off switch switch that can work where you can turn it off and just be you or be more of all of who you are, and sometimes that part of ourselves doesn't want to be switched off.

It's going to fight for its life. It's gonna say oh no, I got stuff to say, I got things to do. What I'm bored, It's going to say all the things it says, right, And so then the works a little different to recognize. Okay, maybe I can listen to that voice and make other choices, but sometimes the pushing it away will actually make it come back with more force in terms of it wanting to drive your decisions right, for sure, I definitely want to get into that.

I would. It would the with performance psychology. How would you how would you describe performance psychology to someone who like, what is it different than normal psychology? Yeah, performance psychology is more I would say it's in general, it's the psychology, it's around mindset, and it's around UM. It's for people

who are in high stakes circumstances. So it's traditionally for high performing athletes, for performing artists, for even for people in the high risk professions UM where there is a lot of emotional output where their lives at risk. And even though it might seem like a broad spectrum, anytime you're in a your your performer, you're having to do what you do in a situation where it feels to you like the stakes are high and there's a sense

of vulnerability, in a sense of um, yeah, vulnerability. Then that's where I feel like performance psychology comes in. I feel like that's just life. Especially these days, everything seems like it high stakes. But I guess it's mindset, right.

I mean, it's we have been so trained to think that everything is high stakes and that you know, there's such a uh mindset of lack that we have all it's kind of all been driven into most of us, um for a very long time, and it's it can be really challenging to step out of that situation or those mindsets. And yes, I think that well, first off, think that there's a new way of being in this world and that's where your kindness and connection come in.

Is it's it really is completely doing a one A D from I think the way we've all been set up. I think so, And that's I feel like it's time for a paradigm shift, especially as we really go forward now given everything that's happened in recent years, that how can we connect more to each other? How can we lead with kindness instead of with judgment or with fear.

But I think that's um, it's really the place that I want to be assuring in this new paradigm through the through the lens of the people that I work with. So you're asking that question of how, how what are some of the ways that you're finding for yourself and through the work that you're doing with others, of ways that we can start connecting more with ourselves and with others. And this this kindness piece. How can we bring this

kindness piece word? Yeah? I think you really you really nailed it when you when you said that your first hit was Okay, it's kindness to myself because I mean, really, the world is a is a projection. What we perceive the world to be is a projection of our own inner world. So the more we judge ourselves, the more we're going to perceive that we're being judged or the world is going to feel like less of a safe place.

So I think it really does start at home. Um. I always I often say to people, Yeah, it really is all about you start here. Yeah, you said the word home, which you and I've been working with um this piece and I've mentioned in on the podcast with with another guest recently, which is this idea of home frequency, and you and I work a lot with bringing soul into the equation you know, what is? What does that look like? What is I'd love for you to describe

what you feel. Home frequency is two people. Oh yeah, it's um. The concept and the experience of it is it's so close to my heart and um and I've I've witnessed it sort of allow you to expand too in the way where so home frequency, to me, first of all, is maybe another word or another way of talking about your the frequency of your soul, of your essence, of your true self. I mean this probably are all

synonyms for the same experience. And then when you look at it from the level of or through the lens of frequency meaning ofvibration, meaning meaning vibration, then it's like your home frequency is when you when you can begin to identify that, when you can begin to feel what it feels like where you're really aligning with your true self or like you and I say, coming home to yourself where there can be a place of kindness because your home frequency, your soul's essence is rarely unkind to you.

UM and yeah, so when you can come there, you can start to go, oh, this feels, this feels kinder, and and sometimes we dip into the home frequency, and then we kind of pop back out and we go into the false selves and the ego constructs and all of that which is just human. Right, It's like, oh okay, And then the first work is really to recognize, oh I popped out? How can I? How can I drop back in? Because I almost feel like it's a popping

out into the into the constructs. And then the going into home frequency is more of a surrender and recognizing what is you by kind of releasing what's not you. How does how do we begin to find that home frequency? Yeah, it's so something that I believe is really important is first of all, I think we need to recognize that frequency is the thing, right. I mean it's a little woo woo, right, But at the same time, frequency is frequency.

Everything is frequency. Everything is energy. Yeah, Einstein taught us that, you know. And it's funny even though I know that, like sometimes it's sometimes the the piece of me that pops out of home frequency. It wants to judge the fact that I'm like, oh, this is energy. I can't see it, but if you think about it, like you're constantly feeling it. If we go into that place of feeling.

You know, you're we're constantly feeling the energies around us, you know, just as simple as if there's someone in the room that changes the vibe of the room or how you feel like. I think, first off, we have to get into paying attention to that, to those feelings. But I know it's it's really you say, it's woo woo. And it does seem sometimes like what am I doing? Whatever?

What am I doing? What am I doing though this thing that I can't see, But it's it is if it's it really, if you really boil it down like it, um, everything is energy, and I think discovering I know for me, you know, through meditation through to feeling into my heart, UM, I feel I don't know how you feel energy, but I feel energy like in waves, like when I really tune into myself, um and drop into my heart and like and somewhat quiet the mind. The mind is never

fully quiet at o't. Yeah. I can start to feel this kind of flow of what feels a little more open um and more like the true self. M It feels more flow, it feels more open. A lot of people will describe it as that I think you asked sort of my experience of it two, which is I feel very peaceful, and I can feel when my mind

is a little bit quieter. When I'm in home frequency and I have more I feel much more expansive, and I feel more connected to to kind of mysticism into you know, even more connected to what isn't visible, like the non physical realm, the realm of what's not visible. So you know, we just I just mentioned meditation and kind of connecting to the heart. Are there any are there any ways for people to that you would recommend to start dropping into their own home frequency. M hmm. Yeah, definitely.

Meditation is or what I even call sometimes as simply as a daily practice. Is something to consider it in the daily practice, meaning it's something you can do every day where you say, okay, even for five minutes, I'm going to stop and I'm going to even just notice what our thoughts as it put with because thoughts or energy. And then okay, what is not thought? So these are thoughts, pictures, words, whatever. And then what is not thought is sensations in my body.

What is not thought is the temperature of the era around me. So you start to even begin to recognize the aspects of your experience UM and then moving out of your left brain and out of your head is a way to begin to dip into that home frequency. So that's just a start, right, Yeah, for sure. I've been reading Michael Singer's book recently, and you know, we talk a lot about witness. He talks a lot about

witness consciousness. And one of the things that's really been interesting for me is, and I feel like this is similar of what we're talking about now, is to recognize that we are consciousness. We are the one who's who's who's noticing what's coming up. We're the one noticing the thoughts. We are the one noticing the pain. Like I was in my back hurt the other day, I was like just reminding myself, I am the I am. I am

the one noticing. UM allows you kind of step out of that constant rumination or pain that you're in or whatever it may be, and even if it's for a moment, because I went right back into the pain, but I was like, oh, I'm the one noticing. And I kept kind of playing with that. UM to me that the one noticing UM, the witness is the home frequency. And I don't know, I don't know if we can hang out there all the time, you know, I mean, or even if we're supposed to write that's the thing. I know.

You said it to me a lot. You're like, are you really supposed to hang out there? Um? But I guess it's you know, as we talk about, you know, bringing soul to performance and bringing soul into our lives, how you know, how do we bring how do we bring more of that home frequency into our daily our daily life. Yes, exactly. The question I almost feel like that is that is probably a life purpose, right What is your soul to experience? What is it here to learn?

And there's so many different ideas about why we're here.

Some some spiritual teachers will just say, Okay, we're just here to be entertained, you know, to as much as oh, there's a deep purpose to have have a huge impact and whatever you believe it is, it is and you know, um, but I think yeah, to to to talk about like how you bring soul into performance is is really I think it starts with being able to recognize your home frequency and to gain some facility in being able to kind of okay, let me drop into that space of

my heart dropping into my heart, let me let me feel my body. Even just feeling in your body gets you out of that the logical thinking, and then whatever practice you have or you create for yourself to be able to be the witness to recognize okay, I'm having thoughts, for example, who who is it having the thoughts? Who is it recognizing the thoughts? Okay? Can I remember that I am recognizing the thoughts? And that is the place

to be. So when you develop that practice, then when you're performing, there are tools and techniques, and sometimes I'll use hypnosis, use different anchors or ways of moving energy in the moment that that will be more conducive to to you being able to drop into that home frequency and express more of your soul into what you're doing.

It's interesting that it's just talking. I was just thinking about what that feels like for me and I when I really drop into my home frequency, sometimes I feel like it wants nothing, and that this is kind of the conundrum as a performer, as someone who achieves, I kind of feel like I get I'm I have not yet.

I have not yet figured out how to fully or how to yeah, how to fully bring that piece of myself into the doing because it feels very separate sometimes, Like when I drop into that place of soul, it's like there, it wants nothing mm hmm. It doesn't want to achieve, It's like it does it just wants to be, And it's like, well, how do how do I bring the being into the doing? Exactly? That exactly, And I think that's that's part of the journey of what we're learning.

I mean, truly, it really is. I almost think of like, okay, there there is um, Like soul is sort of a circle, if you will, and then it has these little offshoots or maybe this is a this is a better analogy, like we're a jewel, but if we as a being or a jewel with many facets, but our essence is the jewel itself. Right, So it's like it's almost gonna

be both. So like even in that I'm identifying it as we're talking here and kind of feeling into it, you know, So if you remain in this remembering that, Okay, I am the jewel, I'm a jewel that has facets. I'm observing these facets. One of these facets is Land Rhymes, who is performing now, right, But even those aspects of you.

They're not not you. There are aspects of you. So is there a way that you can almost consciously from that awareness points say Okay, I'm going to give Leanne Rhymes a voice now, or I'm going to give Katie Pivrel a voice now, or I'm so it's as long as it's coming from choice number one. Then then that part or the persona isn't driving things right, and that's when you begin to have a different experience. And the other thing I was thinking is, yes, the soul doesn't

want to achieve. Soul wants to be, So how can you be in the moment explore like the performing in the moment without it being um a motivation for achievement, but more for experience, because the soul is kind of here to experience. That's a great. Yeah, well my imagine My mind just went to But I don't want to do that because I guess the question for myself that I ask and for everybody I think, in their own profession, without the achievement, would you still choose to experience what

you're doing exactly? And right, Yeah, we're going and we're going to dive even more deeply into that question when we return from a quick break, Welcome back, my loves. Katie and I were just exploring the role of achievement versus experience as motivation for performance. I've been asking myself that question, and the truth is like, I really don't know. And I guess, then, is it that I don't want

to experience what I'm doing? Is it don't that I don't want to experience the way that in which I'm doing it is the is the essence of the thing that I love to do? Still am I still passionate about that? But maybe I'm not passionate about the way in which it's I'm I'm experiencing it. And and maybe the passion is in the creating and the passion is and and you're shifting towards something of that the how

you're expressing it is changing. It's it's adapting to your growth and you're learning and your expansion because you're you're expanding by the moment. Yeah, I mean that's so yeah, that's really I was like, that's a that's a deep question right now. It's interesting because so for so many of us that um that I want to achieve, you know, and we want the end goal to be like we always have to reset goals and we want to cheap

the thing, and it's not about the experience. I mean, I feel like for me, within that lies a lot of perfectionism. To how do you how do you see how do you see perfectionism get in the way of performance? And how is there is there a way to utilize perfectionism as something that doesn't get in the way. Oh my gosh, you're you're just asking me a great question.

I having been a figure skater and working with so many skaters and performance arts, sports is kind of the thing that I focused on as well as performing arts. There's when you combine creativity and a love of beauty and a love of excellence and a drive to achieve. And sometimes when you're an environment where there feels like there's a lot of external a lot of people around you that are attached to you doing well, right, I think that that can be a real breeding ground for perfectionism. Right.

And I sort of have this thing where growing up people would say, don't be such a perfectionist, and I always felt like, well, don't don't rag on the perfectionist, because actually, there there is a part of us that loves it might be achievement. I don't tell me what it feels like for you, but sometimes it just feels like the love of beauty and experiencing something really done well, or where you've given your all and you feel you go to this place of peace. Okay, yeah, I gave

my all. This moment that I was creating felt complete or it had it brought it lit. Something up in me was like, Yes, this is what I envisioned months ago, or what I envisioned earlier that I really wanted to create and birth into the world. That's why I liked the idea of my mission statement of saying pursuit of excellence because excellence isn't inherently bad desiring excellence, I think we can see it as really something that meets a deep soul need of doing things at a level that

brings us joy. Because if that's why we're doing it, because it brings us joy, it's less about the achievement or the box checking that it is really about that feeling of it getting to a point of completion and accomplishment, if you will. But beauty, I mean, there's beauty in a thing done really in a really lovely way that feels whole and complete and fully expressed. Right. Yeah. Absolutely.

I mean I know for myself, if there's like if there's a great performance or a great recording, it's like I feel like I've done the best that I can do in that moment, Like I've brought through into this world the highest possible outcome. Now, Yeah, and that feels good. Like that feels I think sometimes we we can get caught up though, in the expectation of that every time, not realizing that there's a whole spectrum of expression and just focused on I think for me, that's the perfectionism

comes in. When I get focused on it has to look like and sound like and be like that thing. If you get caught up in the last experience, with all the experiences before instead of the present moment. Yeah, yeah, as you were saying that, I just thought, what if we were here to create elastic experiences, because you said the last experience, you know that we allow for that elasticity in the moment and even being present with how things want to show up or be revealed or reveal

themselves to us in the moment. If if that also can be a source of joy and wonder and um more. Source of expansiveness into more of who we are. Yeah, do you feel like do you feel like the soul can only do that? Mm hmmm, only the soul can do that. Yeah, I'm just wondering because I feel like my my my ego, like the piece of me that's like, I want this experience to be exactly the same every time.

I wanted to be amazing every time. I don't know, Um, well, from this point of view, from right now, I don't know if that piece of me can do that. Mm hmmmm. And there's where we should get into pieces. They were get into pieces and parts and aspects and facets right, No, totally, Well, so this so interestingly enough, um Katie and I I asked her to come on the podcast because we just did some work the other day and this might take on a completely different vibe than most podcasts, but um,

I was like, use me as a guinea pig. Um I about I guess the middle of last year, and I've I've talked about parts on my podcast before. I've talked about Tubby, who's my judge in my head? Um, but the parts of kind of I've given them names. They've kind of lived outside of me last year I started discovering, UM, my first name is Margaret for people who don't know um I and I've never been called Margaret and I've never related to Margaret at all. I was like, that's not even I don't even relate to

It's not even a part of me. And I started to really stand up for myself in situations there was there was a lot of anger that came through with it. UM. I was very stern about it. Yeah, she felt she felt very protective, and it was a new part of me that I had yet to really that had yet to come online. And had she really had a voice before? Had she don't really know, not at all. I don't think so, right, Yeah, so I gave her. I was like, oh,

that's Margaret, that's Margaret. And I loved my band and career. Like they know when Margaret's around and they love her, they're like, oh, she's awesome until it turns aroug and back at them, but they're like whoa, Um, But then I, yeah, badass Margaret is it? And then I discovered recently as I went out on tour UM because I've been doing shows here and there, but I haven't done long stretches

of time like we've been doing. UM. Yeah, I discovered that it was really challenging for me to step back into Leanne rhymes or and and remain in that that identity for long periods of time, because during COVID, I feel like I stepped into Leanne and to not be able to oscillate back and forth between lean rhymes and leanne it started to feel really uncomfortable and painful. UM. And so we did some work the other day on these different parts of self, and then's the first time

my parts have been really personal. So I started to see the Leanne rhymes that I created very very clearly, and I started to see Margaret, and I feel like Margaret is almost a protective part of Leanne UM and Leanne rhymes actually UM and Leanne still feels very young, and she feels very scared sometimes, and all of these

different hearts, and you know, it was just interesting. We you and I started talking about, well, sometimes it's sometimes it's great to get these parts to converse and um to find some kind of middle ground, because sometimes these parts of me seem very conflicted, right, And so I thought it would be interesting to talk about these parts

of us because it really very much. Correct me if I'm wrong, But it's it's really about, like I said, finding middle ground within these parts and allowing them, loving them for who they are, and allowing them space to express and to connect and to return home. Yes, return home and join back in that home frequency, right, Yeah, and feel safe enough to then step back out and express again, knowing that they can always return back to

that home frequency. Yeah. I feel like Margaret has a lot of home frequency and her she just she just like she just does to be kind of stern about it. I think one of the you know, one of the big things that I'm wanting to learn and learning is to be able to express without without anger, like to really be able to set boundaries and stand up for myself without it being so charged. Do you feel like there's a mission in there for you about what discovering

like how to communicate without Yeah? Yeah, through love? Yeah? Absolutely? Um. And it's complicated. It's complicated when you know I feel like, um, you know, Leanne's afraid and Margaret's angry. Lean rhymes is like, you know, um still needing to keep up a facade. And I think I think it's just really interesting. We like I said, we all perform, right, So we do

we all? Yeah, we all think of them like think of your name, like think of who you the construct you've built up around your name, who you think you have to be. And then there's this I feel like, there's this piece of us that's still very young and tender. And for me, what I recognized in talking through these parts where that Leanne Rhymes and Leanne both really want love ultimately. And what do mart Ah, Yeah, that's a good question, probably the same thing. Yeah, I think she

wants to be heard. Yeah, she really wants to have her voice be expressed, right, Yeah, for sure. And I so the process that you took me through to find these parts, I would love for you to kind of explain, if you can, um how people may be able to

walk through this process themselves and discover these parts for themselves. Yeah. Well, I think it's important to to recognize that your experience of Leanne Rhymes, she she was created starting from a very young age, and and that persona, if you will, has been of a bit of a comfort zone, a comfort space for you. Right. And I think that all of us we have we identify, whether whether it's just the ego construct the personality, the name who we are, that's not the soul per se um that you can

sort of begin to think about. Well, even just ask yourself the question who am I? And there's actually a really cool exercise that Deepak Chopra supports, which is you just keep answering the question who am I? Who am I? Who am I? And you know, you start you start by saying, I'm a I'm a daughter, I'm a wife, I'm a performer, I'm a woman, I'm a you know, whatever it is you and you just keep going and then who am I? Oh, I'm I'm a gentle person or um, I'm a person that has an anger anger

piece that comes out sometimes. And you keep asking yourself who am I? Who am I? Who am I? And then you kind of get to a point where, oh, I am kind of one with everything. It's it's an interesting way. But as you as you answer those questions initially, as you're kind of bumping down into the layers of who and what you identify as um, you can start to maybe identify some oh, there may be a part of me here. It may be a part of me

that strongly strongly work identified. Okay, I am I am an entrepreneur or I am and whatever it is the title you put on it. So that might be a part of you that's coming through, UM that could be helpful to recognize. Um. Another thing I was thinking about was, UM, I think we had done this exercise as well. Like whenever you're you're faced with a decision, or you're in a bit of an inflection point, not necessarily in your entire life, it could be, but something where you're feeling

some conflict inside or uncertainty about how to move forward. UM. There's a great exercise where you can take even draw on a piece of paper, you draw a big oval table and then when you say, okay, so if the question is should I should I move to this new house that I want, let's just take a really random question. Okay, who what parts of you are showing up with an opinion about that choice? Okay, there's the part of me

that's concerned about finances. This is an aspect of me that is worried about that, And there's another part of me that it's like, I believe in possibility. I want this experience for my life, and I know that everything is good to go and this will happen, and I believe and I trust, so you know, then you can say, well,

who else is showing up around this? And and then as you begin to see, okay, there are little subsets of aspects of yourself that are kind of coming around this kitchen table conversation to express what they have to say, um other parts of you, there can be subconflicts that you can then identify. And so so that kitchen table

thing is kind of helpful. And then about that exercise is then after you've identified who's showing up with an opinion, you want to put yourself into that sort of witness space, that observer mode, uh, and just say okay, and you listen, you write down, or you take note of what each

aspect of around the kitchen table wants to communicate. And then just like we do for those of us that our parents, is if the parts of ourselves were our children were, where we listen to what they feel and what they desire, and then they trust us to make the choice that is best for them, that we hold

the highest frequency for their highest good. And so training that part of you uh to to observe, to hear, to listen, and then look through the lens of your home frequency, your soul frequency, through the lens of kindness, through the through the lens of how am I connecting to myself and I believing in myself? You know? And then when you look through that lens, you begin to have less internal conflict because the voices of those other

parts have been heard. Like and if there are parts of you that want to have an opinion and we don't listen to it, then they, like I said, they really do fight for their life, and they will, they will act out, yes, they will until they heard yeah, and they start to drive all of your decisions. You know. I think I think that can be scary for a lot of people too, is you know, when you start to when you start to listen to all these parts of yourself, it can seem like for me, I know,

it seemed like there's been there's such a huge internal conflict. Um. But I think what I'm hearing you say is the conflict only keeps going when we're not listening exactly. Actually, yes, it actually intensifies when you're not listening. All right, On that note, we're going to step away for a quick breather, but we'll be right back. Welcome back everyone. Katie and I were just discussing how important listening to your intuition is when it comes to achieving your full potential. This

is something I think about a lot um. Let me know if if I didn't quite answer your questions or something.

I think one of the aspects of hyper per formance, if you will, that I think is important to recognize that there is kind of a dark underbelly, and as there is to any human condition, but there's what we would we perceive as a dark underbelly or a dark side or a paradox where there's the thrill of achievement, there's a joy of the moment, there's that kind of touching the divine moment of full soul and self expression.

But then there's the other part of whether it's perfectionist, and there's the other part of it that's painful, the self doubt. There is the the internal conflict, the times when we step out there to to do our thing, to bring to the world that we love the most, and we might get paralyzed in fear or it doesn't come out the way we want it to come out.

So I feel like doing this part's work can be so helpful and healing because rather than sort of keep these aspects under the hood, we bring it all forth and we say, yeah, this is part of being a high performer. This is part of being someone who who has something very rich and deep and important to bring

to the world, as every human does. But to recognize that if that's where you are in your life and how you roll, and there's a big mission behind that for you, that there are going to be times when it feels painful. There's this the paradox of it. To embrace all of it um and and recognizing the parts of ether show up around performance will help you kind of not be in that binary I'm bad or I'm good, or it's dark or it's light, but just sort of see all of it is that brings you into the

wholeness of who you are as a human. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean I know for myself, if I think about that, like I I used to cut off myself really if I you know, it's what it really boiled down to, Like I, I didn't get nervous about anything, and I you know, I had no fear of of performing at all. And the more the more I bring my humanness to the table, like there's I see all of the facets. The more i'm I have more awareness around Yeah, that all of those all of that fear was probably there.

I just was really good at shutting it off, right, And I love you know, hearing you talk about it right then it's like, oh, yeah, this is this is all a piece of performance, and it's I just used to think that I was exempt. I was like, I mean, you know, there's Lean Rhymes like thinking I have this specialness that I'm completely exempt from any of that. And I was for a while, but it was at the

expense of the rest of meatly. And don't you think that you get to a point in your life, and I feel like you've been experiencing this over the recent years, you get into a point in your life where the shutting it down, the shutting it down, it's just not sustainable as an as an approach to performance. It's a short term solution. Because you brought that in, that strong false self. The identity is LeAnn Rhymes. You brought that in at a very young age as a coping mechanism

and it worked. It worked until it didn't write. Yeah, well then I can never get in touch with leanne at all. Because you know, because that coping mechanism was keeping me from her. Yeah. So there's so much of me that I couldn't bring to the table because I didn't have access because of this massive wall I built up in order to keep me from from her. And honestly, talking about it right now is the first time I've actually had appreciation for it, because I've absolutely hated the

fact that I can't go back. Yeah, you know, I like, I can't. I can't go back to not having these very vulnerable pieces of me involved. And now it's like the journey is, now, how do we support those vulnerable pieces of me so that they can stay alive and well and grow and thrive and expand and express themselves. Yeah, and and come in you know, in those moments and your performance and the performance of your life. You know who's going to come in here, who's going to come

in there. So it's this beautiful sort of mosaic of all these facets of you, right, the facets of the jewel. You're the jewel. It just has these facets that light is shining on a particular facet or a couple of them minute time. Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean there's I feel like there's all there's a lot of pieces that

like to talk it once for sure. Yeah. And then something else I wanted to bring up for you that, Um, I know we've touched on it, but is so Leanne is not necessarily your soul's identity, right, And so you're beginning as you come into home frequency the observer, I think there's a recognition which is is that Leanne is

not your soul frequency. And even I believe that as you're in that soul frequency, your home frequency, and you recognize, um, your soul desire, your spiritual self, if you will, then that really heals literal Leanne. It heals Margaret who might

need a stronger voice. It helps Leanne Rhymes recognize if there's a place where she's she has value, in a place where she can um where she can be a conduit for the message that you want to bring to the world, because she's very well cultivated, she's very developed, right, yeah, very But it was that was interesting. I remember when we were working together on this piece, you were saying, well, isn't isn't the soul in all of those pieces? Yeah? And I was like, oh, I guess, so I think

about that because yeah, no, it does. Now, I mean it's I guess the way I see it is, it's all emanating from the soul. It's just expressions of that. And then yeah, they're they're all different expressions of the soul. It's just I think we've I returned back to that idea of like, Okay, well, then how do I how do I remain in the soul more or bring more of that soul forward into these other pieces of myself? Right? And that's you're you're on that journey. You're doing it.

So the more that you're aware of it, the more that you can go to what you talked about is that witness perspective, you know, And then I think there's there's such a deep wisdom when you really are in the essence of your soul that you can feel that you can feel that wisdom, that expansiveness, that oh everything, everything's all right, and that from there you can be supportive, you can love on the other parts of you that

are still expressions of you there. You know, maybe it's the soul putting on a different costume for the day or whatever and kind of playing a character. I think the more that you train yourself to recognize the home frequency, the easier it is to begin to bring that forth.

And and something else that I wanted to point out was that those of us that are creative performers, creatives and high performers, right, is that, um, you know, there there's the there's a perfectionism, there's all so the self doubt that comes in that we need to make sure that we pay attention to as well. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I mean self doubt confidence like how do those how can those live beside one another? Because they do? I mean I'm very confident in what I do, but there's

self doubt that creeps in all the time. How do those live? I mean they do. I'm like, I know they live beside each other. How can they live beside each other more comfortably? Is there a way exactly or else we can step back from the discomfort or see the discomfort differently. And it's it's not always comforting, But I do remind myself that you know, friction makes the pearl,

and heat and pressure make the diamond. That you know that when things feel pressurized or when things feel challenging, that there's going to be something on the other end. There's going to be something that I'm bringing to the light something that can can move me there, that I can trust that there's going to be a gift in an opportunity and what may seem challenging in that moment that's going to allow some growth or some expansiveness. Mm

hmmm um. In your book, you talk about three things that you suggest everyone incorporate in their daily mindset to make like a profound difference in their and their performance. Like, what what are some of the things that on a daily basis, are are some minds? Are some mental shifts that we can bring into help to help support performance? Oh gosh, there's a whole there's a whole book about about that. But outside of that, from what at the

top of your head, like, what do you think? What do you think are some of those, you know, daily mindsets that we can start to implement that would support us in the best way when it comes to our performance. Yeah. Um. One of the ones that I feel is really important is to remember that there's that that feeling of focusing on the effort, not on the outcome, of you know, really surrendering to what is you know, we always say it's the journey, not the destination. It's true. It's true.

That's true, it is right. And I almost think for for high performers, we have to hold both. We have to hold our desire for the destination as well as a desire to to have a certain experience along the way to the destination, because I think we've sometimes vilified competition as it's not good to be competitive, But some of us are wired to be competitive. I mean, you know, not every you know. I mean I come from a competitive sports background, and I've had to just say, yeah,

you know, I'm competitive. That's and and if I turn that, it's like, okay, well how can I compete with myself? And if I recognize that there are times when I might want to compete with others, but we're all there really to bring our best selves forward and to have

a certain experience along the way of growth. So bringing it back to that, how can you focus on focus on the process that you're going through by being present which is important that you've developed through meditation when you can, and not not throwing the baby out with the bathwater by saying well, I don't want to care what, I don't want to care about the result, but letting yourself care about the result as well as the process. Yeah,

that's interesting because the desire piece. Sometimes I want to deny my desire to achieve UM or my the biggest dream that I have. Sometimes I want to deny it UM. And it's it's it's a new thing that I'm kind of playing around with, like how can I And what I hear you saying, like, how can I desire? How can I how can I set goals for myself? But at the same time, UM, let go of it. It's you know, it's like exactly and let go and enjoy what is in front of me. Um. And that's so hard.

It's so especially if you've achieved high success very much so it's been it's always about trying to get back to it or find you know, or to keep it. And I think that's one of the most challenging things for me, is to allow the process to be the process that it is currently right exactly and to be in that. What comes up for me is you're saying that is yeah, and I hear that for a lot

from a lot of my high performing clients. Is while I'm at the top, how do I stay at the top or how do I make sure all my performances are amazing, or how do I you know that mindset of it needing to stay in a particular way. And one of the things that I like that I like to remind people of is what if you had different

kinds of goals. Um, you have a quantitative goal, perhaps a miserable goal, but then you also set an emotional goal or a feeling goal for yourself so that you're you know, what is the feeling you want to have when you get off stage? What is what is the feeling you want to have when your company goes public? You know, whatever it might be, so that that keeps us that kind of gives us a left brain and a brain kind of goal, or what is the wisdom goal? What is the learning you want to have from it?

So that you allow your goals to be some to be measurable and some to be experiential, and and that can help mitigate some of that I'm here and I have to stay here, because when you're in that place, I'm here and I have to stay here. Then you get a death grip on it and it can't breathe. You squeeze a life out of it. All right, we are going to more fully explore the multifaceted concept of goals.

After a quick break, Hello again, Loves, we were just talking with Katie Perell about why identifying what's driving your goals is ultimately more fulfilling than just setting them. And then it always becomes about more. I mean, I think, you know, it's like how can I get more? How can I achieve more? Instead of you know, how can I Going back to what you said, I guess it's how can I experience what more? I guess there's a more in this equation too, but like what more can

I experience? UM? Which does shift things a lot? Does it? For you? It does? If I think about that, like what what else is? It's interesting. The other day I was talking about my forty birthday and I was, UM. I was talking to Eddie and we were looking at all these different places where we could go, and I was like, you know, if I was if we go to some resort, like this is a very fortunate thing that I've had in my life, and I think about

how much I've traveled. We go to some resort or a beach or whatever, like I've I've experienced all of that, Like I haven't experienced as a safari, but I'm not. I don't want to go through all of that right now. I've traveled enough. Um, so there's very few things that I haven't experienced. And so it's really, you know, like when I think about but I'm there's so many things in the human experience that I have an experience, But if you think about it from that perspective, it's like,

well what else? What else can I experience? And just the the travel piece for me was really interesting. It's like, Okay, well what and then it became what I really what is my soul craving to experience? And I'm ending up We're going to the trees and like there's you know, I really wanted this specific feeling and um yeah, and I think if I look at that in every other aspect of my life, I think, you know, we talked

about boredom a lot. It's like, I think the soul, like we're saying, really wants to it wants to experience more in that way, not achieve more, but like experience more. And sometimes experiencing more can be really scary because we only we get stuck in this pattern of only wanting to experience what we know is familiar exactly how do you? I love that you call the book Leap because I just thought, I'm like, how do you how do you leap? How do you literally how do you leap off into

into those new experiences? Um? Because I you know, I'd leap a lot, but I also find myself in certain areas like holding myself back. Yeum, So how do we how do we what's the first step in I guess I was like, what's the first step in leaping? But I don't even know if there's a step. You just take a leap. It's isn't it funny? I've thought about

that so much. I've sort of had this weird fascination with what happens in the mind that gets someone to make that very first Nana's Nana's second movement of wanting to get off the couch or wanting to step out into the new thing? What what initiates that change? What initiates that? Is it too much? Pain? Can be? Totally can be? And can we get there without the pain?

It's a really good question. I mean, when you think about motivation, Um, humans really we're kind of wired to go away from pain and and then once we're away from the pain. We're kind of like, okay, I could

maybe go towards pleasure. But that's when when we get far enough away from the pain, that's when it's really important to say, Okay, when I recognize what was painful, But if I forget what was painful, then I'm just going to keep snapping back to continually re experience the pain so that I keep getting motivated from the pain. And this is where like the self discipline or the self awareness of the practice comes in. It's like, Okay,

I was motivated by that pain. Now I'm in this kind of a bit of a liminal space where I need to go, Okay, what is it I really want? What is my soul asking for? What's gonna what is going to give me sort of this expansive path forward, whereas the away from pain is very linear. It's just shoot away from the pain. And then when you look at possibilities and Okay, when I'm going towards is more possibility, there are more things that can happen. There's going to

be more n No, And that's for sure. Yeah, I mean, isn't the pain. It's interesting because if we're not shooting away from pain, we seem to be shooting towards pleasures. So there's that duality piece, and it's like our life kind of dances between the two, and they both can be very addictive, very much. Absolutely, How do how do we how do we hang out? How does the how does the liminal space become addictive? That's what I want to know. Wow, I think that is an amazing question.

That means not that we want an addiction, but like, how does that I guess, I guess how does how does that become our drive? Our driver? Yeah, you know, it's really interesting. I'm wondering if so. I'm just getting a picture in my mind of like if we're used to it something driving us in kind of a linear direction or forward in some way, or even you know, like on a past, present and future kind of timeline thing.

And if you think about how you know, the unconscious mind or even the soul has really has access to a sense of timelessness and other dimensions, you know, then maybe liminal space being a draw fiver is to expansion, not going forward in the same way. But it's that is the new more is is growth, this sort of expansiveness and access to other dimensions and the mysticism that can come in in that sense, and there's so much to discover in that realm of mysticism and um spirituality.

That was like a big aha moment for me because I know, because it's it's cool too if I think about going back to the soul and then wanting to be it also it wants to experience, and so I think the driver. Then once the driver becomes the soul, then that liminal space becomes comfortable, more comfortable, I won't say comfortable, but more comfortable. Yeah, I think so. And it's it's great for us to talk about it. I

almost see this spaceship. But you know, like it's it's it can go many directions as fast as we want, and it's you know, and it can go a little distance or it can go a huge distance, just like a leap can be a little a little toe dip, or it can be a straight up, you know, big old dive in off a cliff. You know, it can

be all kinds of different things. But if you know, as we as we expand and we're less like attached to going away from pain or going towards measured accomplishment, then then we can kind of be in this almost like a hovercraft that is still moving forward, but it's a it's a hovercraft, and that if our soul says, hey, I want to go to this dimension, I want that experience,

the hovercraft goes. You know, it's sort of there's just so much, so much more capacity for movements, so much more capacity for growth, for exploration into what has yet to be defined. Yeah, that's fun. It's so fun. Thanks for coming on here and talking to Thank you. Oh. I feel like we just like a toe in the water. It's always fun. Yes, there's so much. I always ask questions. Oh, yeah, thank you. I am. I always ask my guests about

their favorite songs and their music. So I, um, I would love to hear your Holy five, My Holy five? I love that. Yeah. Is it something that's been Are these things that have been lighting you up your whole life? Are the things that have been lighting you up recently? A mix of the two? Probably a mix of the two. Now I I had them all captured. I guess, I

guess they're in my phone, but I'll remember that funny. Okay, Yes, Now you know I'm a bit of a child of the seventies and I love me it's a lot of base on R and B, so I try not to have them all the r Andy. I love it. That's actually I didn't know that about you. I know, I thought she's interesting to see. This is why I asked people about music. So interesting, I don't. So let's stay together al Green on my favorite songs, let's you web Um, dance to the music Sly in the family Stone. Oh yeah,

you really? I love it. That's awesome. Um. And then there's this this artist that I discovered when I was choreographing and skating, and I actually skated to this piece a couple of times because I just love the way that she interprets the song. It's Some in China Evening by Jane Oliver Lovely. Don't know if you've ever heard her voice and the way that she interprets it's it's pretty magical. Anyway, it was a time in my life when it was very impactful. The way that she sings.

I think she had like one album check her out. Yeah. And then Moloswavasito by Molo, which is because she sounds sexy, it's very I used to do a lot of Latin dance. I used to do so and Flamenco. I studied Flamenco for a while, which is super fun. Oh that's awesome. And then probably the most current one is perm Bruno Mars. Oh, I love him. He's great, right, show you what you get to do? Matter of fact, yeah he is. He's so talented and so joyful. Exactly, you have some joyful music.

I do. I like it. Do you share what your top five are? I've shared, so I've broken mine down. I've yet to I need to do that soon. I've I've broken mine down into feelings because I know there's so many of them that I um that I we started with the sad music originally because um and I shared those five and those because sad music seems to be my place to go to feel Um, I just love sad songs. There's so many great stories and sad songs.

So I um, I'm you know what's really been interesting, I've been I have a joyous list now, like I've like a joyful and I haven't had that before. Um, and that's been something that's only been really cultivated over the last few months. So who cultivated the joy list? Which which parts of you or was Well, that's a good question. I don't know, maybe it is, maybe I think it. Maybe I think maybe Leanne. Yeah, I think

maybe Leanne. I think there's definitely a piece of me that is wanting to step more into that joy and so and of course it's coming through first, I think through music. Yeah, so there's a lot of freedom on that list of there's a lot of songs about freedom, and I I think that that's what that Maybe that's my soul. Maybe that's maybe she's looking to cultivate a lot more joy. Wonder, yes, she she appreciates freedom and

vastness and possibility and openness. And yeah, when one thing I just want to touch on because we just said that was the we talked about Leanne and Leeann rhymes like wanting to have a lot of safety and security. And you asked me, that's exactly what you asked me. You asked me, what is my soul want? And it wants it wants change, it wants freedom. And so I think ultimately there in lies all of our biggest internal battle. If I could boil it down to anything, I think

that's something we all completely share, agreed. And I think that that is a really great question to kind of tie in quickly to what you know your listeners can take away, which is just when you think about it, what does my soul want to tell me right now? What does my soul want in general? What does my soul want for today? You just keep asking the question. Eventually it will continue to come online. I like it. I like it. Thank you to You're so welcomely and

thank you, honey. I love this. Great to connect, great to chat about these things that that expands our minds and our hearts together. Yeah, I appreciate it. Yay, and that, my friends, brings this very special episode and season of Holy Human to an end. Thank you for joining me on this journey for a third season. We have had such a beautiful season and I am so grateful for all of you for joining me and learning alongside of me.

I want to thank Katie for joining me today and I hope you enjoyed our time together as much as I have. Please let me know your thoughts by leaving them in the comments wherever you're listening, and please share this episode with anyone who could use a little more self love, acceptance, and awareness in their lives too. I'll be back very soon with our next season of holy Human, and I look forward to continuing to grow together and to exploring all the pieces of what makes us more

holy human. Until then, my loves, be kind to yourselves, be kind to one another, take care of each other, and I love you guys. Holy Human with Me Leanne Rhymes is a production of I Heart Radio. You'll find Holy Human with Leanne Rhymes on the I Heart app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get the podcasts that matter most to you. H