Jamie Scrimgeour

step parenting, which can be complex. I'll be joined by the refreshingly candid Jamie scrim Jewer, host of the kick Ass step Mom podcast, for some seriously honest and open conversation, and don't worry, there are a lot of universal takeaways to all on Today's Holy Humane Act. Jamie, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I I've been watching you from afar for a while now, like over Instagram, and there are very few women who actually want to

discuss being a stepmom. And I'm just so grateful that you're sharing your experience in the world, because I know there's been very few places for me to go and feel like I'm connecting with someone else who's a stepmom, and I feel a lot less alone in the world. So thank you. Thank you for putting your journey out there so vulnerably, because I know it's not easy. Yeah, no,

it's definitely not. And thank you for saying that, because that it just means so much when you hear another step mom say that what you do matters, because it is. It's so vulnerable, right, and you're putting yourself out there and you're saying, you know, your deepest, darkest secrets and the way you're feeling online. And there's been so many times when I'm like, what am I doing? What am I thinking right now? Right like starting a step mom blogger,

you know, sharing my experience on my podcast. It's I questioned myself. And then I talked to another step mom and you get a d M and you're like, oh, yeah, I'm talking about this because when I became a stepmom, no one was talking about it, no one was no one was saying anything, and I didn't realize the way that I was feeling. Everyone else was feeling too, but no one felt comfortable saying it out loud. Yes, yes,

you knelled it. I'll talk about my stepson's and being a stepmom during the middle of my show, and I'll kind of prompt the audience to be like, yeah, like if you're a stepmom, and it's usually islands, come on, now, I know there are blended families in this audience. There's probably more blended families than not. And finally I'll get people like admitting to the fact that they're a part of a blended family. And it's it's wild, like it's

such a taboo topic. So when I when I saw you taking on like all these different topics so publicly, I applauded you from a distance because I know, like I said, I know it the resistance that comes at

me just during a show. Or you think people would be like, we're totally on team blended family, and people are like, m yeah, there's no real team, Like no one's like people were probably like half as raising their step mom because yeah, it's you know, there is still so much stigma and such a double standard when it comes to moms and step moms and the way that step moms are viewed in our society and it's mind bloin to me because there's so many step moms like

this is this is not an uncommon family situation, but yet here we all are still struggling to talk about it. Yeah for sure, and before I totally want to go down that road with you. But before we get into it, I would love to know how you became a stepmoment yourself. Hold were you? What was that whole? I think I

was young and had no idea. So I was turning to six and I started dating my husband, who is He's thirteen years older than me, so you know, he had three kids, He had an established life, a home where we live now actually in you know, Hamlet and southwestern Ontario. We have a wheat field for a backyard. I was living in the city and uh, you know,

working as a child protection worker. So we were two very, very different lives, but you know, we were just kind of madly in love all in and I didn't really think about what life would be as a stepmom. I just thought I'd figure it out and I had My parents were divorced. I work in child protection, back ground, in psychology, worked with kids. Like I felt like I had all the things I needed to you know, be a successful step mom because I've done it on professionally.

I I supported so many families. I became a Stepma myself, and I realized, you know, very quickly that you know, being the expert on the outside and living it in real life, there's so many different Well it's just the emotions, right, you don't know how it's going to feel. And uh so, yeah, I got it really overwhelmed very quickly. And I think, you know, for me, looking back, we had so many doubters, right, like so many people, you know, having opinions about our relationship.

I was young, like, did I know what I was signing up for? You know, was I ready for kids? You know, was I this like, well, yeah, I know who was ready for kids? No? No, I didn't, um, but you know, was I this rebound because you know, the new young wife? Like it was just like a stereotype, right, So there was a lot of a lot of doubters

in our lives. And even my dad straight up told me not to marry them, Like my dad was like no, my mom was like no. In fact, at my wedding, my dad and in his speech said, you know, I told Jamie not to do this, but she, you know, told me to go f myself. Basics. Is I appreciate that was a good way. It was a really touching wedding speech. Um. But yeah, there's so many people who

just thought that this wasn't going to work. And so I think my big thing at the beginning was I was trying so hard to be perfect and have it all together and not say I was struggling and and all of that, and inside I was like, oh my gosh, what was I thinking, Like this is so much harder

than I thought it was going to be. Yeah, I was twenty eight, and I was still like I felt like I had grown up so much certain parts of me and then other parts of me were still very young, and I was so in love, like I didn't think

you don't think about that side of it. You just think love can conquer all and everything will just work out and everybody's gonna like me eventually, and you know, like I can make this work, Like I'm I'm always one of those people that's like if if I put my mind to it, like everything's going to be okay.

And then you get like five six years in and you're like what the fuck, Like I can't control everybody and everyone, And you know, I think that that's been such a I mean, there's been so many lessons I think step mamahood as Um definitely taught me so much

about myself and about my boundaries. Like I didn't even know what boundaries were until I started to have to deal with, you know, not only an expouse, but also children, like children that we're very different because one was six and one was two when I started, you know, hanging around them, so it was they had both very different experiences of me and as I of them. So it

was wild for me. At least, it was an afterthought that I just thought I could make work and everything would be fine, and it's it was a very loud reality of something completely completely different. It was, Yeah, it's been a wild ride. Yeah for sure, And you know, I love what you said. They're like, well, I just kind of dove in and I didn't think about it too much. And I get step Mom's reach out to me all the time before they get married, and like,

well they're dating and I am. I always want to say to them, if you're going to over analyze the stuff now, like you're you're gonna really just ruin it. You're you're overthinking it. Like if you're in, you're in. If not, like you got to go because this is not going to be easy, right, Like it was almost like that ignorance was bliss because you know, it brought

me to the place that I am at now. And if I would have known everything, I don't know if I would have allowed myself to fall in love, you know, like I wouldn't have put myself in that situation. Who knows, but that like that's hindsight, But there's a lot of challenges that I did not see. Kemming. Oh, yeah, do we have that much control of our hearts at the end of the day, I'm not really sure. Very true, very true. But I can say it now. You can't. Yes, you can say it now. Like I said, I love

that you share your journey so openly. I love that you coach. You do coach right, you coach step moms. Do you work with would you work with bio moms? Also? Like, do you work in that kind of situation where you work on the relationship with two people? No? I don't, But I've always thought about doing some mediation stuff because I feel like it would be really good to get two people and you know, the mom and step mom like in the same room and just like have this

conversation there's this book. It's called No One's a Bit Um. I didn't read the whole thing, so I can't speak to the entire book, but halfway through um. It's written by a mom and by a step mom and a bio mom, and they recall in the book the same experience, like the same event, in two completely different ways. And it's so crazy because they both experienced that exact same meeting of each other and how each other showed up

completely different. And I think that's so important to remember too, when we're in these situations, like the way mom is experiencing this, the way the kids are experiencing this, the way we're experienced this, Like we're all experiencing this really tricky situation from our own lens, based on our own wounding, our own triggers, our own stories, And I think that's the missing piece here, right, And just seeing like it's

everyone everyone has their own perspective. Yeah, I remember that being such a huge awakening for me when I understood that every single person has a different lens, And like you're saying, it's built up from the moment that we're you know, born, through all of our different experiences and then we show up in this moment, and then this moment is seen through our own lens. And I was so fascinated just psychologically by that of no, two fingerprints are the same, same with the lens in which we're

looking through, they're not the same. I guess I started to have a lot greater you're standing and capacity for empathy when I started to try to understand the lens in which others were seeing things through. And there's been certain times in my situation where I'm like, that didn't even happen, like, but according to them, it really did.

And there's been people in our in our circle, in our family, our whole family unit, where I would definitely say that what people were expressing did not happen in the room, but they are so adamant about it. And so because of people's you know, through the lens of hurt, because of the lens of insecurity, Like we're all looking through different lens and depending on the day, you know, it's given me a lot more compassion for what people

are experiencing or I think that they're experiencing. Yeah, it brings a lot of meaning to the whole The way people treat you is more about them than it is about this very true? Like how true? How true is that? Like There's been periods of my step motherhood where I literally had that like on repeat in my head. You got to like talk yourself through it, right totally? Do you have to be your own coach? I mean, that's

that's so interesting. You know, when you when you start to go and look up all you know, information about stepmotherhood or about you know, the experience itself, there's really not There's not a lot out there. Why do you think that is? And what made you what made you want to jump in the fire of I'm going to be the guide that that helps all of these women on this journey. Yeah, I don't know. I know it

kind of happened by accident. Really. I when I was in university and out of the university, I was fascinated by blogs and I was I just kind of always thought about having a blog and I would just I wrote this blog as well, and it wasn't a big thing, but I always thought it was cool when someone from like Australia would read it or something like that, and it was interesting when you know. So there was a really big pivotal night in my life as a step

mom and I was on the floor. I was crying in the bathroom with wine, and I was like, I think I'm out. I I think I think I've been there before. Yeah, I think every stepma haas. And I was like, I think I'm done, Like this is this is too much? Right? I everyone was right, I made a mistake. I'm out. That night, I was like, I'm either going to get in my car and go far far away, or I'm going to figure this out and I'm going to be a damn good stepmom. And so

I went to the internet. I was like googling stuff, and there was just a lot of bashing, step mom bashing. There was a lot of hate, There was a lot of step mom stereotypes, Like there was really nothing that resonated with me, and like the support that I did find about how a step mom should act. I was reading like do you even have step kids? Like do

you even know how this feels? Like sorry, I can't take this from like a general parenting expert, because if you're if you're not in it, you don't understand it. So I started blogging about it. Never in my life did I think that anyone would really read it to be quite honest, like I would. I was just kind of doing it at this point. We had a baby. So just to back up, my husband and I got together in March, got moved in in July, got engaged

in October. No, yeah, I got engaged in October, married in June, pregnant in August, and a baby in in May. So like there was a lot going on, and then all of a sudden, everything settled and I was like, Okay, I have three kids, three step kids and a baby and a husband, and I have a wheat field for a backyard and I don't know what is happening right with my life and I'm not I'm not even thirty, and uh so, yeah, that that's kind of how it

all started. And then I started to get messages from people from all over thanking me for saying the things that they were afraid to say, and it really just kind of transformed from there. I was like, wow, there is something here. And at that point, no one was talking about step parenting online other than just kind of like the bashing Facebook groups. So I just kind of went all in and and here we are. Now. I

love it. I think it's very brave and I you know, I'm sure there's got to be a lot of intense energy that comes at you from both sides. I mean, there's step moms who are angry and frustrated, and there's bio moms who are angry and frustrated for different reasons. I mean, how do you handle that as a blogger? How do you handle that kind of energy that comes

at you on the Internet. I've had a lot of it coming me from from for different reasons, and I honestly, this is the first conversation that I've really had about this topic. And I've been a bit afraid for the past twenty fo hours because it is you. When I speak on this, A lot of times I feel like I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't, and yeah, okay, well thanks. It's not just a feeling. It's but at the same time, I know I'm at a place where

I can speak very clearly on my own experience. I've come to terms with being able to handle the energy that comes at me because I know who I am. I wondered what your experience is like, because you are so blatantly like entering these worlds you know, in their heavy topics I did actually get a really good hate

mail from a husband the other day. So the step mom had been, you know, following my content, and I had been talking about boundaries and talking about you know, trying to set some stuff, and sometimes people take a little bit and then don't take the whole thing, and maybe her delivery of my messaging wasn't completely aligned with what I was actually saying, and so he wasn't happy. Every once in a while, I get a I get a really good email from someone who's really upset, and

it comes back to it's not about me. You know, it really isn't about me. And I think that because you know, when I present myself, when I'm having conversations online, I am pretty no bullshit in the way that I show up. So I don't think I get as much hate as people think I would. That's good. So I don't know if they're just anticipating that I'm going to create content about it, because typically I will make it

as a conversation piece. In fact, often I will get people say, hey, this is how I'm feeling about something you said. Please don't share this um and create content on it. But so I've just kind of created that type of relationship with my community. And then when people are rude like block, block and bless like see you later, Like this is my page. And if you're not here to be respectful and to grow with each other and to just be open and honest, then you don't belong here.

So I have no problem just blocking that and just and just saying saying goodbye block and blessed. I like that was like later, I just don't have time for it, right. And here's the thing we haven't. Like when you're a step mom, you've got enough drama and stuff in your own life, even when things are good. It's like what Stepma Magazine says, like even when it's good, it's complicated. You don't have time for other stuff. So for me, it's really been about being very careful about how I

talk about things. You know, I'm I'm very deliberate about what I say and don't stay online. So you will never hear me talk down about my stepkids. Mom. You will never hear me, you know, say anything negative about my step kids. If at any point in time anyone my family was like that made me feel uncomfortable that you put that, I would be like, it's off right, Like my number one priority is always going to be

my family. And I think that's what actually makes me different than a lot of other step mom bloggers because I say this all the time, but like sitting around bitching about how terrible the exes or you know, how hard being a stepmamas, it's not going to make it any easier, Like it really does. The change does start with you. And I love when I hear other step moms say that it has been like this huge evolution,

this personal evolution. They've learned so much about themselves and their triggers and and just grown so much as a person, because that's what happens, that which it's all about. Yeah, I mean, it really has been the most expansive journey. Like you know, my relationship with Eddie has been incredibly expansive, and to be able to have the safety and in relationship like I do with him has been super expansive.

But the other and probably even more expansive than that, has been my role as a stepmom and navigating so many different personalities and also disengaging without being disconnected, which can be very confusing. I think, I don't know, there's been that's been a huge piece for me. Another huge piece has been and you mentioned like drama within the relationship. One of the things that I had to look at and still do sometimes is like how hooked in am I to drama? How much do I get off on that?

Because I think it's so easy in these relationships, because they can be so high conflict, to get sucked into it and it be almost like a high, especially when you get used to it. If it's not there, you're like, wait, it feels something feels wrong because it feels calm. When we started to have less of a high conflict experience, I started to ask myself like how much of this am I causing a and and desiring like actually wanting

because it fed me in some way. And it was such an interesting exploration because now if I see myself like trying to get hooked into it, I'm like, nope, not not my not my thing. I want peace in my life, like peace really, And I think because of how I my life has never really been peaceful since

I was a child. Just by growing up the way that I did and having to really unhooked from the drama and really make peace a priority has been such a huge shift in my own journey and I would have never I mean, I'm sure life would have found another way to teach me. But step you know, this step mom experience has been you know, to put my piece first above anything has been super super important for me.

I love that because I'm a firm believer that you know, everyone here has a lesson they need to learn, right, and you know what's your lesson? Like You're going to find yourself in the same situation over and over and over again until you learn the lesson that you need to learn. So I'm always saying to step ims, like just stop and ask yourself what the lesson is, and

they're like, no, you don't understanding. His ex wife is doing this, his stepkids are doing that, like my stepkids are doing this, Like this is you don't get it. I'm like, no, I do, I get it, But what is this trying to teach you? Like, where's the lesson here for you? And as soon as you shift that, I think as a step mom and you start to see that from a different lens, You're like, oh, okay, yeah, this is a little bit about me right, Yes, for sure, and this is a good time for a quick break.

But we'll be right back. Welcome back my friends. The cool stepmom guru, Jamie scrim Jew and I were just talking about the blowbacks that can come from offering stepparenting advice. One of the more challenging pieces of being a stepmom. There's multiple, many, but one of the things that I feel like is not talked about enough is the loneliness

that can occur when going through this experience. Especially you know, I don't have Eddie and I do not have children of our own, and because of that, a lot of times for me, it's felt like I've been placed. It's like I've been injected into this family system and it can be really, really lonely. I think that's one of the I don't think I've even realized how lonely it was until maybe a few years ago, and I'm like, oh this. I feel there's a sense of loneliness in

this container that I don't feel like. I don't know, I don't feel like it's talked about enough. What's been what's been your experience with with that? Yeah, I definitely think I felt that a lot at the beginning, especially before I had Race, that was a I felt very lonely.

Actually even after I had Race, because it felt like they had their things and when the kids would come for we had week one week off, so when the kids would come, it was just like all kids, like all kids focused, which rightfully, so like kids have hockey, they have all the things. Like kids, we have to take care of the people. Um, but it was kind of like where do I fit in here? Like where where do my needs fit in here? And I did.

I felt very much like an outsider. And then when we had Race, so the kids would still have their busy lives, and then I had this baby, so then I wasn't even involved in their busy lives as much because I was at home with this baby. And that was really lonely for me too, because I was like, well, if I was in a step mom, we would be here together, right Like I felt like I kind of missed out on that new mom experience because we had all of the kids all that, Like the kids were

there and we were running around like that. So yeah, I definitely was lonely. But I like what you just said there is like you didn't realize it was lonely until you really dove into it. Because I don't know if I would have identified it as being lonely as

much as I would have just been piste off. I mean, right, well, it's funny that you mentioned piste off because when I dove into your book The d and Twenty Ways to Be a Kick as step Mom, Yeah, which I loved, um And it did piss me off in a couple of places, which I loved also because what it did was I haven't really had to revisit these pieces of my experience, and it brought up some leftover resentment and anger that is still the air. And what I started

to question, like, where is this coming from? Who is it? Who am I projecting this toward? And it's not my um my stepson's mom at all. Actually, it has nothing to do with her. What it started, what really brought up for me was my resentment towards society and the

stereotypes that are still that still exists. And how much of when you're in my position or you're in your position where you're you're openly discussing these experiences, how much projection gets projected upon you of what people haven't yet to deal with on their own. And yeah, I was

I still today. I was just talking about it before we got on here, I was like, I'm still angry, Like there's still anger that I've that's not that's left over, And it's because I really haven't had to look at, you know, these these places in my life because my my my situation has shifted um in our family unit, um to one that is more peaceful, kind of left left things to be and without really dealing with certain feelings I've had around the experience. And so yeah, so

thanks for that, Thanks for dredging that up. I really appreciate it. But you know, it's interesting because I I think my own journey has been you know, like you said, you wouldn't have called it loneliness. I think my journey for myself, my own healing, has been about really finding words and finding having a vocabulary for this array of

feeling that is this step mom experience. It's it's very complex, and I think one of the best tools that I've ever given myself is the ability to express it and know what's coming up for me and and claim it as my own and not projected upon the other people in this experience. Yeah, for sure. And you know, just to go back for a second, step moms in our society It really is so confusing, right because you're talking before, you're saying, well, how do you know what to do

as a step mom? And the thing is is there really is no right way. So what works for one family isn't right for another. So you know, there are step moms who are all in as like the motherly role in the home, and they have that relationship with the kids, they have that great co parenting relationship. So for them to like swipe an iPad or to ground a kid or to you know, implement something new, it's received well because everyone's that's what works for that situation, right.

So those are the situations where it's like, yeah, the step mom is a mom and this family too, and everyone's on board. Then you know there's step moms who maybe aren't connecting with their step kids. So you have step moms who don't have that great relationship and they have this guilt because they're supposed to love their step kids like they're their own, but they don't have those feelings. Or you know, you have the step moms who do

love the step kids like their their own. But then people are, well, you need to respect the role of the mom, and you know you're a real mom, but you're actually not a real mom. Let the real parents handle the parenting, like you know, like there's just a confused messages about how a step mom should and shouldn't show up. So when you say, like I'm damned if

I do, I'm damned if I don't, it's true. So that's why it's really about getting right with yourself and like what works for you and your family, because otherwise there there is no right answer. Yeah, it's very complicated, and you're right, it is very unique to each family unit because some families have everyone is present, some families, you know, have the mother or father or whatever it

may be, may not be in the picture. My journey with that has been really interesting because I feel like the more secure I became within myself, I have been able to navigate the relationships, whether it be with my stepsons or Eddie or with Brandy. Like I've feel like it's always come back to my own sense of security and not taking things personally and just letting people have

their experience. And the more I could do that and the more, like I said to the disengaging without detaching has been really that's been a that's been a tight rope walk for me, and I'm sure a lot of people can relate to that. It's like you want to care, but at the same time, you don't want to care too much. I don't want to get hurt in this, or I don't want to hurt anyone else in this. I want to still allow people to have their experience.

I think, you know, the more, like I said, the more I can just be with my own experience them, the less hurt a cause in the in the family unit is what I've learned. Were you guys always on the same page with like the kids in terms of expectations and like parenting and that kind of stuff. No, I'm not. Sometimes some days we are still some as we aren't. And it's really interesting because I, you know, Eddie really wanted me a part of his experience and to be a part of their life, and I have been.

And I also know as they've gotten older, I've known and to back away and be like, hey, I'm here, like if you want to talk about anything, like you know, I'm here for it. And I let them have their own experience with their parents. And I sometimes can get caught in the middle of everybody too, and everybody's like, be on my side. I'm like, nope, I'm just gonna

go over here. You guys have at it. We were actually all in the house the other day and everybody was having their own experience, and I just went laid down on the couch. I was like, I'm just gonna observe from over here and then and everybody can do their own thing. Like some days I feel like we're on the same page. Other days I feel like we're not. And then I I feel like some days I'm part of the book, some days I'm not. It's a dance. It's a dance that I've had to learn. There's not

one fixed way of being. And if there is, then congratulations to you, because it's for us. It just seems like the more flexible we can be with one another, which is so opposite of how I am in my life, Like I like to control things, you know, when I head out on tour, it's like everything is planned, like everything's always been planned, and this has been the chaos of this piece of my life. I've had to find peace within the chaos. There's that makes sense. Yes, I

do really think that most set moms their lesson is control. Right, if you really think about it, like, if you talk to most step moms, what do you struggle with the most? I struggle not having control and in some way, shape or form, And you know, that was definitely like the same situation for me. I felt like I had no

control over anything. So then I tried to control everything even more and tried to be that perfect step mom and you know, try to put all that pressure on myself, and then then that backfires, right right, I think that's it's when that all starts to backfire and you start to get resentful. That's where all the step moms get to the point where they're like, like, we're saying on the bathroom floor. Yeah, yeah, for sure, I've definitely been there.

And right here, we are going to take a quick break, but we'll be right back, I promise. Welcome back. My friends. Jamie and I were just discussing how striving for perfection can backfire big time. You just mentioned a word resentment, and I wondered, what are your what's what's your suggestion and advice when it comes to keeping resentment out of the relationship and not only with your husband but with

your step kids. Yeah, I think you've got to be really in tune with yourself and pay attention to how you're showing up. And it sounds so cliche, it's like, but it really does come down to self care. And when I'm looking after myself and I'm spending time with girlfriends and you know, Darren and I are making time together, and you know, I'm just feeling good, eating while exercising

all the things. When we get a lawyer's letter, or when we get or something happens with my step kids, or my partner and I disagree on parenting whatever, or I just get triggered by something, it makes a huge difference my reaction. Right, So if I'm not doing okay in the self care department, I'm going to be overwhelmed and resentful and spiral and just kind of, you know, really snowball down that spot. But when I am taking care of myself, I have a little bit more perspective.

But I think it's really important there are signs leading up to when that is happening. So if you're feelings overwhelmed, if you're feeling annoyed, like when someone just walks in the like when your step kids walk in the door, or you're dreading the time that they're coming to spend with you, or like you're sitting at dinner and your step kid is eating food and all you can hear

is how loud they're chewing something like that. Like that's when you know you're like bordering on resentment, right, Like something's off right now because you're being easily triggered because chances are they're not chewing any differently than they are were last week, but you're just in a different space. So I think it's so important to get really clear with yourself and be open and honest with your partner

and learn to have those conversations. And it's hard, right because when you say how you're feeling about certain stressors in your life, the stressors actually came with your partner, so they can take offense to it. But self care in that communication piece, it's so important because when you're bordering on resentment, like you gotta do what you got anything you can to not go all in there, because when you're really stuck there, it's a really hard place

to dig out of. It is I agree with that completely. Communication has been key and one of my biggest lessons has been you know, I can't control someone else's response to my feelings, and I want to, Like I, I don't want to hurt like you're saying. You know, some of the things that we can resent came with our partner, and so they can't take it really personally. I have had to learn that I can't control Eddie's response to

my feelings. But at the same time, it's worse if I hold it in because I'm sitting here unexpressed on how I truly feel. And that has been a dance that we've had to learn because I've also I think it also really um the delivery makes how I deliver information is really key UM to whether or not you know he can he takes it personally, and so communication has been something we've had to navigate and learn how to do because it can be in this kind of situation,

UM can be even triggier than regular relationship communication. Have you had situations where he just completely doesn't understand why you think this is a big deal? Oh yeah, for sure,

all the time, all the time. And I, you know, at the beginning, I think had this expectation that he could control the situation, like he could magically just like make things stop happening, and I remember having in this conversation one day where he's like, I can't control this, like I can't my and I realized my expectation of his his control of the situation was just insanely um inflated. And I also realized that I was in my own experience and spin out in our family unit relationship in

the first few years. I realized that he wasn't going to understand everything that was going on inside of me, Like it was just there was no way to for a man, for my husband to understand as a new

step mom what was happening within me. And so I think I go back to like having the words to be able to communicate my experience that became something that I really had to learn, and him being able to listen to me and hear me without telling me I was wrong for feeling that way was super important too, Like I just needed him to hear my feelings and if I could get it out and he could be there in order for us to have that conversation, then

I think a lot of feelings naturally dissolved. It was like, Okay, I just needed to be expressed. Yeah, I have this thing that I recommend that my step moms say before they go into like these tough conversations they have like disclaimers, right, So it's like, I don't need you to understand or to agree with why I feel the way I'm feeling. I just need you to respect that this is how I'm experiencing things right now and just leave it at that. Right.

And I find when you go in with those disclaimers, they can't they have to listen, right, kind of sets you both up for success, right like that, But it's true, right, And I think we all also don't really give enough way to when you're in the trenches of it all, like if you're dealing with a high conflict X, if you're if you're having issues with your step kids, if you have different parenting styles, all of this, how much pressure is also on our partner, right, Like there's times

where I would say to Darren, like I need you to respond to that like this, or I would be like write it out, like can you say this, like like shut this down, this is how you need to do it. And I would be so pissed when he wouldn't do it the way that I wanted him to do it, And that was a lot of our issues because I just like you're saying, you're like, you can

shut this down. But what we didn't understand is like there's a whole big picture here, Like we really did come in the middle, and like when they're fighting about you know, the holiday schedule, there there's you know, something going on. It's not actually just about the holiday schedule.

It's about you know, they're ten years of marriage. And it took me so long to realize that and to be like, oh, Okay, well, maybe I shouldn't try to write the email for him, you know, like maybe I shouldn't try to coach him on exactly how he needs to shut this own and just give him a little bit of empathy, because man, this guy is being pulled and like have her many different directions and just trying

to keep us all happy. Yeah. I mean, when you're in your own internal insanity, it's really challenging to be able to step back and take that observer point of view and recognize that he's in it too, and she's in it too, or the ex partners in it he or she, and then the kids are in it too, and especially as they get older than they really start to have these, you know, opinions and feelings about you in the situation that maybe they didn't have when they

were younger. And so it's it is hard. And as as the little longer I've been in it, the easier it has been for me to be able to take that position where I can observe and give everybody room, because it's when you're at the I'm just at the beginning of a step mom experience, it's like you're just in your own You're in your own ship, you really are. What did you find hardest at the very beginning, Like what was the biggest, like the most pressure. Oh, um,

that's a good question. Mine was very complex because it was so public and I think, Um, I think because of the way Eddie and I got together, there was a lot of turmoil, and I think trying to build something solid amidst the turmoil, Um, that would just not stop. It was incessant. And you know, when you're on the cover of a magazine every week where you know your relationship for years on end, and to try to keep the kids somehow protected from that, that was the most challenging.

And trying to also figure out like how how involved I think that was one of the biggest things. How involved, and you know, you want to create a family and a family unit, but then you're not quite sure how to do that and keep every atty happy. I think that was also a piece for me, is like I just wanted to try to keep everybody happy and everybody from getting hurt even more. And the more I did that,

the more I seemed to probably hurt those involved. It was really complex, very very complex, and I think, you know, having it be so public really did add another layer of just absolute insanity and going back to that kind of evil stepmother association that we have. Like, I mean, how do you and you know, looking at my own experience of how I was drugged, through the press, through everything, and how do you think we start to change this?

I know, I feel like talking about it like we're doing is a step forward and being honest about the whole experience. But what else do you think we can do as step moms and as a society to start moving that needle into a more cohesive, loving experience for some moms? Yeah, well loaded right. I think I think it really does boil down to the way that women are pit against each other to begin with you know, because you know, way step moms are viewed versus the

way that step dads are viewed, it's entirely different. You know, a stepdad comes in and marries a woman with kids and he's this hero, and you know, a woman marries a man with kids and it's like, well, what a what a home wrecker. She's you know, not respecting the role of the mom, or she's trying to overstep and

and that kind of stuff. So, you know, I think it really it really comes down to losing the competition piece too, and understanding that you know, there's a lot of talk is as a stepmom a real mom, right like our step mom's moms too. And I think it really does come back to no, step moms are step moms. Step moms are step moms. They can be. The way that that shows up for different families is completely different. But there's nothing wrong with being a step mom, right.

So when the step mom comes in with this idea that she's supposed to be this mom and this family, and this idea from society that you need to love your step kids like your own immediately, but don't treat them like they're your own, because that would be overstepping right like, but then the step kids are also told they don't have to listen to you because you're not their mom, but you're supposed to act like their mom. Like it's it's actually really messed up. It's because we're

trying to make step moms into moms. And that's I think where that competition comes in. And if we just separate them, right, their motherly figures were all motherly figures. Everyone's on the same team. But let's let's lose the competition piece. And it starts with even conversations at the arena, right, like just the way when you introduce yourself as a stepmom. So I go to the arena, I introduced myself like, oh, you know that's my stepson. Oh how is that? Why

don't you ask how old he is? Right? Or you know what teams he on? And it's interesting how strangers can just ask us, oh, well do you get along with the X. It's like they're baiting you. You're being bated all the time. That's the thing. Yes, people want the fight, and that's what I had to start. That's what I was saying when I would get hooked in to the fight. It was like we have been trained as a society to want that fight and to be

entertained by it. And it's amazing that, you know, we live in a society that we'll just ask you so blatantly, well, how's that because they just want to know, like, yeah, they want to know, like they want the fight to be there, which is for sure. It's scary to me, it's and I do think you're right. I think it does boil down to the underlying issue is, you know, pitting women against each other. I know one of my biggest hard looks for me that I had to look

at was how much I wanted to win. And yeah, the better the house, the Yeah, it's like always be the prettier that you know, like all the things. The way that society does that to women, that's that's ingrained in us totally, it is. And to have to unhook from that was a huge thing. It's like, it's not about winning, it's about raising competent, beautiful, loving children and really trying to form whatever your team is going to

look like. And that could be all rah rah, everybody's loving each other all the time, or it could look like just getting along enough to help each other out like whatever, and some people don't ever get to that place, and I think we have to give ourselves some grace, like it's it's okay if you don't create the perfect family unit. I know a lot of people look at my situation. They're like, how the hell did you get to the place where you could all spend a holiday together?

And it's taken a lot of work on both sides. And I think people have this idea that eventually everybody will get there, and sometimes you won't and that's okay, it's okay. Yeah. And that's the other piece too. There's this huge pressure now to have this hurts and sparkles co parenting relationship. And I've been talking more about this lately. But whenever one of those viral Facebook book posts with matching jerseys or something comes out, you know, I always

get messages saying, you know, this is how it should be. Yeah, And that's been something that's been really hard for me. I There's been time where I've had wine with my you know, husband's first wife. There's been we've hung out together at hockey tournaments, and then there's been times where we don't even speak, like you know, now I'm fairly,

I'm fairly disengaged at this point in time. Just it's based on the ebbs and flows of where everyone's at in their own journey, and that's what's best for me, right, that's what's best for us that I'm sure that's what's best for her. Like all of this pressure of how we're supposed to interact with each other and what this should look like, it makes you feel guilty too, right, But there are a lot of people who need to get to a certain place in their healing journey to

have that type of relationship. So it's like another thing that stepman's feel guilty about. So if you can't have that relationship, or if the ex wife wants nothing to do with you and doesn't even want to say hi to you at pickup where doesn't want you to have anything to do with you know, parent teacher night, even though you are doing homework with the kids seven days in a row, right, Like, that's not about you. But we have to lose the guilt there, because that has

been really hard for me. I really thought we would have us you know, there was times I was like we could all do holidays together, we could do this, and we could do that, And I'm really glad I didn't start that tradition because it would not have gone well. But I had to get over that. I had to even like grieve the loss of what I thought it should look like or what it was going to look like, or that we would all get to that point And maybe we will eventually, but we're not there right now.

But that's what's healthiest for us too, So there's that piece to consider. Yeah, I love that you're saying ebbs and flows, and I think that that is probably the case for us to For for the most part, we've been able to once we've committed to holidays and such like, we've been fairly committed and it's been nice like and it makes the kids really happy. And I try to be in my own space and enjoy like everybody for

who they are. And I think that expectations piece is so huge, Like when you can lay off of the expectations of what you think something should be or who they should be, then you get to actually experience it for what it is. And there can be a lot of gifts that you're not able to see three your expectations, Like there's so many gifts that could be there and so many lessons. We go back to those lessons that we're learning that we we could be missing if we

have just expectations of the situation. And you're right, there's a lot of grief, a lot of grief I think over for everybody. Oh yeah, yeah. Empathy is something that you talk a lot about in your ebook, and empathy has been such a huge part of this journey. I think it's so such a part of the large part of the human journey if we allow it to be. But I think when it comes to grieving, it's so interesting on this podcast this whole season, the grief has

come up in each episode. When it comes to grieving, we have to remember that each of us is grieving something in our own way within the situation, and having that empathy for others grief is really important. And then everyone does that on their own, in their own time way, in their own timeline, right like you really, I think, going back to what you're saying, like you got to learn to read the room like as a stem mom, you read the room like, read like your relationship with

your step kids, see where they're at. You know, the way you're showing up to support your partner dealing with the acts, like just read the room and then you know, figure it out from there. And that's not saying your feelings don't matter, right, and and your your experience doesn't matter, but you own that experience too, right, And so you get you get to control with situations to keep putting yourself in for oh, absolutely, and that's the thing you

have choice. It's interesting that you're saying reading the room because I feel like that's been a huge piece of my anxiety, is having to read the room. It's and I don't like equated to just this my relationship in this family unit. It started back with my own parents, but I am now in this situation that's similar. I've had to learn how to read the room without it being anxiety provoking and taking on other people's emotions within

the room. That's been really interesting because I think it is a gift for a step mom to be able to read the room and to be empathetic. It can turn on a dime really quickly into this very anxiety provoking experience, and I think that sometimes comes with is there a control piece involved? Then? Are you trying to control everybody in the room or are you just reading

the room. Yeah, totally, that that hit home too. Yeah, and it's it's like you're saying the ebb and flow of the situation, Like I really have to keep myself in check so that I allow for the ebbs and the flows, and I don't get so fixated on on one thing, because then it goes back to someone's grief journey. Right, Like we dealt with secondary infertility. I wanted more than one baby. Um we went to have another baby after rece I. We couldn't. It just wasn't wasn't in the

cards for us. And that's something I've had to grieve because if I didn't marry someone who was older than me, if I didn't if maybe we didn't have this my step kids because it was so busy, I didn't feel like we had enough time for another baby. Like all these things, I feel like I fully process that, right, I feel like that's something I've I've grieved, I've moved

moved on from. But years later, I can have something happen and see something and it triggers my grief, which then impact how I experienced the acts and how I experienced my step kids busy schedule and like the resentment

creeps in. So I think people need to remember too, this is not something you just you know, check off, right, like your step on struggles and the reason meant and grief and the whole the whole learning process, all the things, like you're constantly dealing with it, like this is like a lifelong work and there's always going to be something. It is lifelong work. All right, We are going to step away for a quick breath, but we'll be right back.

Hello again, loves. Jamie and I were just talking about the pressure to project harmony with the way that we interact as a blended family, and you mentioned grief, but I know one of the things that's been coming up for me lately is actually grieving not having children of my own. And it's been a real clear decision for me. For a long time. I didn't really think. I love how everything's portrayed in the media, but I've never we've never tried to have kids or um and I've never

really thought of myself with children. In fact, I told my I told my godmother when I was six that I was going to have two boys that were in my own and so I had wildly um yeah, and she remembers it so vividly, and I thought I was going to adopt children if I ever had children. I just never had that desire. And I've had the wonderful experience of having two boys in my life and which has been really cool to to watch them grow up.

That's one of the things that I've been grieving as as a stepmom and as a woman now heading into forty and it's not over, like, it's not who knows what will happen in the future of my life, but yeah, it's been really interesting to navigate being a stepmom but not ever having kids of my own. And that's that's a it's a true grieving process for any woman. I think it at around this age. So it's been really interesting.

And I think that that's a different experience for step moms to write like the childless stepmom like quote unquote, like and you know, if you have your own child or you're bringing children in from another marriage, like there Again, that was just the different experiences, because I know that a lot of childless step moms or those who are dealing with in fertility haven't been able to have their own or by choice, they sometimes feel like their experience

in motherhood is minimized because they don't. People will say, well, you don't understand until you have your own kids, and there's so many there's elements of that that's true, but there's elements of that that's false. Like there's just like so many you don't know what you don't know, right, and we all kind of walk through and have our own experience. I don't know what it feels like to be a childless stepma and to just have my have

my step kids. I think my experience being a stepma would be completely different than it is now and vice versa. So I think there's there's that piece to consider too. It goes back to how there's there's so many different

dynamics that everyone has their own hurt. That was totally and that was one of the pieces in your book that I was like, wait, I'm not my my motherhood is not minimized because I'm not I don't have children, But that is a view in which our lens in which I am looked at through society as as a

child is step mom. And that was one of the things where I was like, oh, there's there's anger around that for me, and there's a grieving process that I'm going through, and it just really touched upon something that I know. I'm not the only one that experiences that. And I find it so interesting that you have your own child with your husband and like you're saying, I don't, I don't know that experience. And so I think a sense of respect for everyone's own unique experience is so key.

And you know, when it comes to moving the needle forward, I guess in our society, I think the more we can talk about those unique experiences in which each of our lens is our our own. Um, it not not only plays into the step mom role, but into humanity as you know, as a whole. Yeah, their truth is not our truth, right and yes, and vice versa. We both like fully believe it. Yeah, totally. I like my truth is the truth though, right absolutely? Mind you it

finds how it really happened. Yes, exactly. If you could go back in time and tell you're younger stepmom self one thing, what would it be, Um, I would say to get into couples therapy right away? I would I would get into couples therapy, and I wouldn't have gone as all in as I did. So I was commuting like an hour and a half each way. I was working in child protection still, and this house was perfectly clean. Um,

the kids were perfectly dressed, you know, everything. Dinner was in a crock pot when I left at five thirty in the morning, because I was going to be like I just took over and did all the things. And I did that because I was trying to be perfect and trying to prove myself and you know, trying to show up. And I thought that was the way I would I would show everyone how much I loved them. And I got to the point there was my husband.

I had this fight in the kitchen and I said to myself, I don't do any of the things I used to do anymore. I used to go to yoga, I used to go to the you know, book stores, coffee shops with my girl friends, used to all these things. And I don't do anything. I'm just here doing everything for you people. And he looked to me and said, no one asked you to stop that, Jamie, Like you did that on your own. And he was really right, like,

you never asked me to do it. And I think, you know, that's where a lot of stepmans get caught up. We go all in and we want to do all the things, and we do it with great intentions. But then that's when you get to that resentment piece, right, because you might not be getting that same emotional attachment as their mom does. You might not get the glory

moments and those are the things. It's like, you're good enough for the nitty gritty, but then when those glory moments come, you need to step back and know your place. And that's where the resentment piece comes in. Right. Absolutely, I would have not done that, but I don't. Again, it's like you're saying, how I said, I maybe wouldn't have fallen in love with my husband, but I had, I probably would do both. Again, it's your journey, right, I mean, we all have our unique journeys and this

is just part of it. So thank you for coming on here and sharing so vulnerably. I really, really really appreciate it. Well, thank you for having me. Yeah, before you leave, I have to ask. I ask all my guests what are your holy five songs? Of course, I'd love to know what's playing in your house, in your car. It could be anything from the like what you're listening to right now? Five songs or it could be over your life, like what's moved you? So give it to me?

Yeah for sure? Well, yeah, I've I've prepared these because I knew this was coming, so I kind of went with songs that kind of like hit home for me. Okay, So do you know what I really love is Caitlin Bristow released a song and if I'm being honest, and so she talked, have you heard it? I don't know that one. No, I can have a moment best me.

It's it's really good. So she's like, if I'm being honest, like I'm not as tough as I seem, like maybe I drink a little too much wine, but like the words I say to myself and are the hardest ones, like talking about people being critical of you. And I really like that one because it's like, yeah, you know, sometimes we're hard enough on ourselves. We don't need to worry about whatever everyone else is saying. I really love the song and it kind of goes with what we're

talking about when you love someone. I thinks like James t W but he's talking about like, you know, two sometimes two homes are better than one. Sometimes moms and dads they followut the fall out of love and just like explaining it to a child. Yeah yeah, so I really love that's a better though what that song sometimes that I love sometimes too better. Some things you can't say, sister, because she's still too young. I don't understand when you love someone. Yeah, so good. I love that song. Yeah

so good. The other one was and it's just like a huge fan faith in my family Paradise by the dashboard light meat Loaf, like it's like our family things, both sides of my family, like a meat Loaf concert, like the last time he went on tour, like all my family members and like friends were like in different spots, just like having a hoot. So my family always Yeah, I love it. Um what else did I got here? Ronan Keaton? When you see nothing at all? I think

that was the last one I have. I think I'm sure I went the shone that you need the truth and you right shut that's okay. So I love that. It's just like the best I love Nan and I did to do it together actually years ago, and he's like, especially I'll look at it right now. He's the sweetest guy. I love him so fun so so good. Well, thanks for sharing it, thank you for sharing your music, thank you for sharing your heart. And it's so nice to finally put a face like to see you in person. Ish,

I know. I don't know if you've noticed on Instagram there's people saying you guys need to do a podcast together in the comments. So when you'll when you like something or like comment on my post, I always get damns like do you know that leanne rhymes? Okay? So if I will, I will. I would love to come and join you on yours too anytime, so let's be

sure we will get it set up awesome. Well, thank you, have a beautiful day you too, And that, my friends, wraps this very honest and open episode of Holy Human. I hope you have enjoyed my conversation with Jamie Scrimtrat

as much as I did. Again, her podcast is called The kick Ass step Mom and it is filled with tons of realistic and pragmatic tips and advice if your stepmom or navigating a blended family, And as always, please let me know your thoughts on today's episode or ideas for future ones, and be nice leave them in the comments below wherever you're listening. I love reading your feedback, so come join us anytime, let us know what you think.

And on the next Holy Human, I will be joined by a profoundly insightful poetic author, Steph Jagger, to discuss her latest book, Everything Left to Remember, a touching tribute to navigating a relationship with a parent battling Alzheimer's. Steph will share her heartbreakingly beautiful takeaway on this incredibly cruel disease, along with an in depth discussion about our relationship with nature and our connection with a feminine and I just

know I did. You will find her deeply inspiring, So until then, please take care of yourself and each other. Holy Human with me Leanne Rhymes is a production of I Heart Radio. You'll find Holy Human with Lianne Rhymes on the I Heart app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get the podcast that matter most to you.