Healing Trauma Through EMDR and Biblical Spiritual Wisdom - podcast episode cover

Healing Trauma Through EMDR and Biblical Spiritual Wisdom

Oct 17, 202436 minSeason 2Ep. 1
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Episode description

What if the key to overcoming trauma lies not in confronting it directly, but in gently guiding it from the depths of the amygdala to the clarity of the neocortex? Join us as we unravel this intriguing concept with Shannon, who shares her transformative journey through EMDR Therapy and the art of creating a personal "safe place." This fascinating approach does more than just heal old wounds—it opens doors to spiritual and emotional liberation, blending science with the serene wisdom of spirituality. Tune in to discover not just the neuroscience behind EMDR, but how it can help you craft your own sanctuary, free from the weight of painful memories.

As we journey further, imagine breaking free from generational curses using the power of mindfulness and biblical wisdom. Explore how practices like butterfly taps can alleviate daily stress and enrich your spiritual life. We reflect deeply on humanity's universal longing for redemption, drawing from the wisdom of philosophers and biblical narratives. Through meditation and prayer, we invite you to explore the heart's sacred gateway to Eden, a place where solace and divine connection await. Embark on this soulful exploration with us and uncover how the blend of spirituality, science, and mindfulness can guide you back to your own spiritual paradise.

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Transcript

EMDR Therapy and Bilateral Stimulation

Speaker 1

Welcome to Wholehearted Podcast , where we believe that the life you long for , the abundant life , is accessed through the heart . I'm here today . It's been a while . It's been a long time coming , Shannon , but we are Season 2 , Wholehearted Podcast . And how are you doing ?

Speaker 2

Finally , I'm so ready . I've had so many people say Are you guys and just life and all the things , but we're back about that .

Speaker 1

But I was thinking today we could just jump in because there's this really , really important therapeutic method that you use that . When I heard about it it blew me away and a lot of your patients have experienced so much freedom , so much life . It's been a great resource for them . So I want us to talk about that .

But it's also more than a therapeutic thing . There's this deep , resonating spiritual thing about it .

Speaker 2

But it's super practical .

Speaker 1

So maybe you could tell us a little bit about the safe space . I believe you call it , or what do you call it ?

Speaker 2

Safe place , safe space , happy place People call it a lot of different things . But I'll be honest when people would say go to your happy place , I would often find it a little cliche , like that's silly , that's not going to work . And then I got trained in EMDR and that is one of what they call a resource .

So before you ever do any trauma treatment , you got to have resources in place to make sure that if a client or someone gets too overwhelmed , we say , okay , let's , let's use one of our resources . So I did have to develop my safe place and , as I said , okay , let me try this . It has become such a spiritual place for me .

So we tell people you don't want to think of a place that you associate with a person , because , as much as we love our spouse , if we just had a fight , that space is going to be tainted .

Speaker 1

Which never happens to us ever right , never , never . I mean for therapists , right , Like never have a fight with your own spouse , right .

Speaker 2

But I think the divorce research is just up there with everyone else's , which is kind of sad .

Speaker 1

Yeah .

Speaker 2

But you know , yeah , or you know even like this is where my grandmother would take me . It might elicit sad feelings if she's no longer with you , so we do say that the Lord is , of course , allowed in your safe place and we invite that . So mine started with a field of wildflowers and just me walking on .

Of course , that perfect 70-degree day , breezy , no humidity . And then , as I used it , as I needed to , which really is whenever you feel stressed , overwhelmed- so okay , Okay , so maybe help us .

Speaker 1

So you , in your mind , you have a field of wildflowers and when you're and it's just a picture , an image that you hold in your mind- yes , and we tell people as much of your five senses as you can incorporate .

Speaker 2

So I will walk people through very detailed descriptions of their safe place , like what would you have to eat and drink , what would the smell be , what would you hear ? And we practice thinking about that . And when we include the tapping or the handheld buzzers that go left to right , that just deepens the whole body memory .

Speaker 1

Yeah , and you're probably going to have to experience . Yeah , you're going to have to probably share EMDR and with the buzzing tapping I'm sure that there are some folks listening who don't know about that and I mean , it's become very well known in the community of therapy and throughout the world .

But maybe you could bring us just the basics of why that works , what it is , all of those things .

Speaker 2

Yeah , A lot of people are like ABC . What ? A bunch of letters , but it stands for eye movement , desensitization and reprocessing , which I always tell clients doesn't mean anything either to you . But really the short version is we figured out . Actually Francine Shapiro figured out in the 70s while she was walking and she would shift her eyes left to right .

She started to feel better , and so she would then try this on friends and they started to feel better . So neuroscientists got involved and what we found is the fist is the best diagram , that trauma which is defined as a hurt or wound . So we all have trauma . It's just to what complexity is held in our amygdala and our brainstem .

That's our fight or flight mode . We see a big bear in the woods we go grab a big stick or run . So when we move the brain back and forth I always say think about rocking a baby . That's so soothing to them . It's soothing for us as well . That's so soothing to them , it's soothing for us as well .

So that's called bilateral stimulation , which just means anything left to right that crosses the midbrain is going to move that trauma from the amygdala to your neocortex , which is your rational , logical brain .

So the best analogy is a soldier coming back from war who may have had a flashback when he hears a loud tire pop or a noise outside , thinks it's a gunshot . After EMDR he can stay in his rational logical brain , so the same thing can happen to us , that's fascinating .

Speaker 1

No , it's so fascinating , right , I know it's so fascinating right that literally , you can do something physical , very practical that takes from your limbic system and your fight or flight , freeze , fawn responses and then , yeah , you can actually move it out of that fight or flight state into the rational .

It's kind of like the scared cousin that you have and then you switch it into your lawyerly uncle Like hey , can I get some advice ? And he's very , very processed and logical , and that's kind of the process where we're moving out of .

You know that one I guess you could call it a , maybe a brother , I don't know if you're a male or a sister , right , Like . So you're going and you're saying hey , can you help me break this down , Instead of just getting all up in our fields the whole time ?

Speaker 2

Yeah , and you don't forget anything . But clients will just come back and say what used to emotionally jolt me or overwhelm me .

It just is neutral now and from a spiritual place , I think that is so beautiful that prior to EMDR training I said , okay , god can get us here with our healing before heaven and EMDR and , of course , being believers knowing God like so far .

Speaker 1

right , god can get us so far .

Speaker 2

Yep . And only so far brain to heal and how awesome that we've continued to discover ways to do that so and so you can do that through eye movement , through like tapping left to right , right or doesn't matter . You even have some buzzers through like tapping Through , tapping left to right , right to left , doesn't matter .

Speaker 1

You even have some buzzers right .

Speaker 2

Right the touch points or any kind of buzzers . They just buzz left right , left right . I like those because then a client can close their eyes and it does the work for them , and that's again like- .

Speaker 1

And it's just stimulating your right side , left side , right side , and it's that that allows trauma to be accessed and brought to our rational part of our brain space right .

Speaker 2

So we're like , but you know you're not at war . Why would you think that loud noise is associated with a gunshot if you're in a safe place ? But but , the brain doesn't know that and the body holds memories which are , you know not , they're not rational , they're not .

I'm trying to think of you can't put words to it right Like it is just held in the body and so yeah , so the buzzers have three different speeds and when we keep them on slow , that's relaxing . So even when I'm talking to a client , we're not necessarily doing EMDR .

I will let them hold the buzzers on slow and they will say thank you , I feel more calm after a few minutes .

Speaker 1

Wow , wow . And you , you can even get these like on Amazon , can't you ?

Speaker 2

I don't know about Amazon , but touch points , if you Google those , they have a really cool website that I've started to dig deeper in where , yeah , they can help with sleep , they can help with mood lots of different things Just calming . You know , younger child is starting to have a tantrum .

They have clips you can put them on your shoulders and they were actually shout out to them . I was able to apply for a scholarship because they're not the cheapest things and because of my work they granted that , so really thankful for that .

Speaker 1

Yeah , what's the kind of the general price for those ?

Speaker 2

I think they're around $215 normally , but I have discovered if I send clients to get them , which I do often , they can come down to about $150 with a certain code . So if you're listening to this and you want to reach out , we can help you with that .

Speaker 1

Yeah Well , how about the show notes at joeljohnsonorg slash wholehearted ? We'll include those in this episode's show notes . And Shannon , you said that you even have like a coupon code .

Speaker 2

Is that ?

Speaker 1

something we could link up there as well .

Speaker 2

For sure .

Speaker 1

All right .

Speaker 2

We can attach the EMDR article . That is just a simple one-page article I've written to help understand EMDR and how it works a little bit better .

Speaker 1

Oh , wow , okay , Fantastic . Well , head to joeljohnsonorg slash wholehearted and you can grab that session session's notes . Not only that , but uh , from all of our past seasons you can also download .

We have lots of great exercises and shannon has provided a ton of that , so it's kind of like three uh , free therapy , uh , and you can make use of those , and we'd love to love to have you do that , okay , so we're back , kind of we understand what emdr is now and we're back at a safe space , your happy place , that place in your mind that you can go

to yeah , come up with a title for it so that when they think you know shannon island or whatever that is , they can go straight there and again the slow tapping is going to be calming and allow their brain to just start to remember all the details that they've already created .

Speaker 2

And I also say you know , there may be days where so mine has then transformed to the side of the field of wildflowers is a wooded area that you can walk down and there's a waterfall and a table , and then there's a cabin back on a path , and so it's become a very in-depth place where I envision meeting with the Lord , and the cabin allows me to have

anything that I need at that time . So sometimes people want to be walking or looking at the waterfall , and then other times is where we say tend to your heart , you're tired and you're like I just want to be in a big , comfy bed and resting , and so that's where I created the cabin , part of my safe place , because it can hold anything that I need .

Speaker 1

Wow , that's incredible . And is this ? Do many therapists use this ? It sounds like it in your training , right ? They're training groups who are coming through .

Speaker 2

I think the foundation is mindfulness , which is being in the present moment . So we use a lot of grounding techniques like if somebody's feeling overwhelmed , okay , look around and tell me five things that are red , or four things that you smell , and that brings us into the present . So safe place is a version of that .

It just allows you to create all the details that are really helpful for you . You know , one smell for one person may be super relaxing , where , for another , they may not love it or that kind of thing so . so that's why everybody can get associated .

Speaker 1

Yeah , yeah , they can get associated . Are you familiar with those ? The tests they did with the mice and the lavender scent ? No , no one about that . Yeah , yeah , yeah . So this is kind of a mouse trail , if you will .

So they were testing the smell and they would do a low level shock on their feet whenever they would put the lavender smell in with this particular mouse . Put the lavender smell in with this particular mouse so the mouse began to associate something that is normally something that he would like , which is lavender .

Now it had this kind of well , I'm going to get shocked when I smell that . So whenever they would release the lavender smell , the mouse of course would get upset and would also try to leave that area . So the little shock on his feet , low-level shocks on his feeties or feet , it wouldn't happen .

And what they discovered is that for four generations and even up to seven , four generations and even up to seven , that his kids and then his grandkids had the same anxiety response to the smell of lavender . So you know , Deuteronomy tells us to the fourth generation talks about in the language of curses , right ?

So just this passing down of trauma , that can happen . And so sometimes the reset of going to a safe space can help us to work through something that we shouldn't be afraid of and maybe even genetically is passed down , right .

Speaker 2

Like .

Speaker 1

But that we can work through things .

Transforming Generational Curses Through Mindfulness

Believers , people of the book Jesus , followers would say break generational curses .

But this safe space is one tool that can help you to reprogram your brain and to even see that the passing on , even genetically , can be altered , shifted potentially , and that you have not only a spiritual generational curse breaking but you can also begin to do that with your mindfulness and also even biologically there are so many really cool things .

You know the Bible is so old and people took it just spiritually . But I just love when science proves the Bible right .

Speaker 2

It's just amazing , happening all the time .

Speaker 1

Yes , okay , so that was a little bit of a bunny trail , mouse trail there . So we're going back to your safe space .

Speaker 2

Yeah . So , and this is helpful , I mean daily . I know it looks weird to do these butterfly taps , you know , in public .

So you can do that on your thighs , you can tap your feet left to right , but how many times are we sitting in traffic and we need to say , okay , I'm getting overwhelmed , I'm getting stressed , I'm going to just maybe not close your eyes while you're driving , but think about your safe place ? And this can be such a daily tool that helps bring peace .

We know the Lord says you know , be still and know , and that takes an intentionality in this crazy busy world we live in .

Speaker 1

Yeah .

Yeah , I mean you could even be tapping at two and 10 on the steering wheel right , like people have an anxiety response and some people have a anger response right To road rage , and I mean those stats are continuing to escalate and rise , and so something that is practical , that literally if you're more hired to believe in science and to be like I just need

some evidence or proof . Just even all of the research on that is . It's so conclusive and it's something very practical you can do as well . You know , anytime you're saying you know any mantra that you have are I am still . You know the Lord keeps me still .

You know he has not given me a spirit of fear or anxiety , but a spirit of power , love and a sound mind . All of that can bring help with your mindfulness , right ? Is that correct ?

Speaker 2

Yes , yes , the big thing we do in EMDR is create , figure out what the negative belief that was created through the trauma and what we want to replace it with . So those positive mantras are so important .

Speaker 1

Wow , that's so powerful . Mantras are so important Wow , that's so powerful . So I want to just talk about the safe space from the context of maybe more theological perspective on that , because I was really curious and actually I learned about this through a client of yours .

Actually , she was sharing about her safe place and I knew that she was seeing you , but she just kind of was sharing this information with me and saying , yeah , I have this safe space . I'm like , well , tell me more about this .

And from a theological standpoint I began to process that out a little bit and just think that , okay , so when Christ died there was so much that was not only forgiven but through his resurrection , we have new life and we now it is no longer our life that we live , it's not a life of the flesh , but it's his life , it's a resurrected life , right , and then

the Bible would talk to us and the New Testament would talk to us about , then , his ascension and Paul talks a ton about this in Ephesians , chapter 1 , throughout Corinthians but that we've been seated with Christ , that basically all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Jesus and that we are now seated with him , having authority over principalities and

powers and all of those things . So this is all very interesting .

And we go back if you're looking at the whole biblical canon , right Like you go back to the beginning of the Bible and Genesis , and there's this chasm that's created between Adam and Eve , our great , great , great , great , great , great , great , great , great , great , great ancestors , right Like these guys that they have this they're kicked out of the garden ,

they're kicked out of Eden , and this is a really big deal . It's more

Return to Eden

than I know . Some people or some listeners may be out there thinking to themselves okay , this is a nice story or this is a poem , but it's of such power because every political philosopher and even philosopher . What they do is they're always creating the process of political philosophy or just philosophy .

Is you have a utopia or a starting point that's paradise ? Okay , then there's what slid us out of that better society or that way of living , and then how do we get back to it ? That is the basis of philosophy and or political philosophy , and so it really is our origin story of the human race of saying , okay , here was paradise , here was Eden .

We've slipped out of that . Something caused that to happen . And then how do we , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah . How do we get back to that Right ? And whether you're Aquinas or Locke or Rousseau or any of the others that are Nietzsche , I mean you could name them all this is kind of the process that they use to create this philosophy .

And so we have this and Christ being , you know , the Christ being the redemption or the return to Eden , like that's what he said Even in Revelations . You see him saying behold , I make all new , and he's basically it's the restoration of Eden on the earth , right . And then in Revelations you kind of see wow , here is heaven .

The throne room of God ascends down back to earth , which is Eden , where Adam walked in the cool of the morning in the garden .

So it's this heavenly place mixed with this physical world , and we're kind of like amphibians , right , we can take the resources of two environments , a spiritual environment and a physical environment , and we can make use of those things .

So there's this idea of that Christ when he came , because he justified us , we are no longer sinners but we're saints , we're resurrected to a saintly life and that we're seated with Christ , that we have access and Paul talks about this to boldly enter the throne room of God , so the throne room of God . We have access to that now .

Well , that throne room of God is located in Eden . And the return of Eden and the throne room prophesied about by John in Revelations , but it's the restoration of Eden . So when I started hearing your therapy that there's a safe space to go to , it automatically resonated with me to say , wow , well , that's Eden .

And the places you've described , the wildflowers , or another client of yours was saying , you know , it was at the beach or wherever . Yeah , Like there's this , this very hedonic kind of place that we're returning to .

And I was talking to a mentor of mine just the other day and he was telling me Joel , did you know , though , that your heart , which our heart is our spirit , it's where our free will resides are in our heart ? He said do you know and he said it kind of poetical that every heart has a gate to Eden and that there is a place you know .

Jesus said , hey , I'm going to , I'm going to create , basically , a place for you , Like I'm going in my father's house . So there are many rooms , there are many houses right , there are mansions . He's saying I'm going to create these places for you . And so it was really about three years ago . I started without knowing about this therapy .

I had this moment in prayer and kind of just meditating . I was going through John Eldridge's 30 Days to Resilient and it's a free resource for everybody . We'll make a link in there . But if you go to the Pause app , it's a free resource .

It's 10 minutes of meditation in the morning , 10 minutes of meditation , and when I say meditation , scripture reading , someone kind of , it's John Eldredge and others who are kind of guiding you through these thoughts and then there's oftentimes moments of prayer and connectivity spiritually .

So I was going through one of those and in the middle of that one of those I was lying in my bed . It was the very first thing in the morning and I saw this image of Jesus and he was spinning . You could tell the background was spinning like , as blurry you know like , and I could see his face and it was full of joy and life .

And I don't know if it was just an image in my mind's eye , you know , or just something I was holding , but it was . It was much . It felt much more metaphysical than than me kind of controlling that image . It just kind of came to me in this moment and it brought me a lot of joy , a lot of peace , just knowing that man .

I had this really cool encounter with Christ and I could tell in the background it was rocky , sandy , even a waterfall . I could tell that there was water there in this picture and in this picture , yeah , it was really great .

So I continued through 30 days of resilience on the Paws app and I had this other thing really kind of it was almost like I was there , but I was standing to the side . The mature present me was there and I saw Jesus kind of spinning around .

Like you know , when you hold hands together with somebody else , especially when you're a kid and you're spinning around in a circle .

Well , I saw Jesus and this child kind of doing that in the same kind of location where I was at and I was off to the side , kind of third person , and the revelation came to me Joel , that's the younger you and the younger me , jesus was taken care of and as I could see in the background it was a cave kind of .

It was a cave , but it was an open-air cave . It was kind of a cove like surrounded cove and there was waterfalls and it was definitely I could tell it was near the beach and the ocean was there .

But I had this revelation that for much of my life the mature present me hasn't made the younger places in me that we all have comfortable enough to be in the house . And he was at the periphery of my mind , pushed away , because a lot of my you know , childhood memories not a lot , I should say there are .

Just when I go back there there are some standout moments that are very painful .

Speaker 2

No doubt you experienced complex trauma .

Speaker 1

Yes , yes for sure . So I had this kind of coming to myself , of saying man in a way to the younger places within me . I had become abusive in my actions , of kind of abandoning first of all something I experienced , abandoning those thoughts because I don't want to go there , right ? Nobody likes to . We want to feel good .

We don't want to go there , right , nobody likes to . We want to feel good , we don't want to go into pain usually , and then also just that that child wouldn't feel comfortable enough to be around me , you know , as the mature present me , you know . So it was this very moving moment .

And then I saw Jesus holding the child's hand , me holding the other hand of the child , the child in between us walking back to this white large beach house and walking up the steps into the home of my heart , so to speak .

Steps into the home of my heart , so to speak , and that kind of started over that month that started me into returning to this place for healing , for connection , for peace . And that's how I kind of edged in there . I have some more stories and maybe we'll skip to another . I mean , maybe in our next episode .

Um , I can share a little bit more about some of the really cool things that I've encountered .

But as I began to share this with one of my mentors , he began to say to me well , joel , you know that was Eden , like you know that that resource is open to us If we can boldly come into the throne room of Christ and the throne room or the throne room of God , and it's located in Eden .

There is many resources that we were made for right , because we're kind of these amphibious beings , so to speak , in the metaphor that we're spiritual and we can draw resources from our spiritual and we're physical and we can draw resources from these safe spaces .

But I would say from a theological standpoint that we have access back to Eden which , whether you know it or not , we all long for that . We long for things to be made right . We long for that paradise again . We long for the world and creation to be made right .

I mean , we're in the midst of all of these hurricanes , you know , and the tragedies and the fear and anxiety , but we know how the story ends . How gracious of God to not leave it unknown .

Speaker 2

We don't necessarily know what's before us before he comes back , but we know heaven is waiting and heaven is so good and I have to cling to that in these days of , like you said , hurricanes and devastation in our state , where we know people personally who've lost everything , and I don't know how people get through it without faith , because that's all we have to

cling to .

Speaker 1

Yeah for sure Whether you can go there today spiritually and say , wow , we have access to Eden , because that's what we all long for , and I think for me in the past , I would say things like God , how long do we have to wait ? When are you returning ? When are you bringing this back ?

And I just want to encourage those , especially Jesus followers , that you can access Eden . You can access the spiritual resources that are waiting there for you . Some of you will just say , hey , I'm willing to go there as a therapeutic exercise , right , like , maybe the spiritual side of that is like whoa , that's kind of way out there .

It's very biblical and biblically based . But whether you're going to a place that you hold in your mind to find restoration and a safe spot for you to just be restored and then come back and your mindfulness is then transforming your body , the way you feel , the way you process mentally and in your brain , we just want you to access wherever you can access .

But for me I know that it's not just me , but many , many others Christians would say , hey , this is a normal part of life is to interact with Jesus in such an intimate , conversational way .

Maybe that includes your imagination , along with what you're hearing on the inside , and so if you're today and you're listening to this , maybe I can just lead you in a prayer or I just want to pray over you .

If you would allow me this moment to just pray and if you want to agree , there's so much power in like saying , yes , I want that , I want to have that intimate connectivity , more of that , with Christ and the Bible .

I mean Jesus taught you don't have because you don't ask you know you got to seek , you got to knock , and so sometimes that's why prayer is so powerful is that we're asking and we're seeking and we're knocking to understand something that we don't quite understand right now .

Speaker 2

So let me just pray .

Speaker 1

Father , in the mighty name of Jesus , we just come before you and we're asking to hear you more clearly .

We're asking to follow you and to know you and to reach into the spiritual resources so that , in the midst of a world that is just filled with anxiousness and anger and even hate I just feel like all of those have been amped up in the last decades Lord that we come to find our Eden , our paradise , our safe space inside our heart , and that we could then

manifest that through our mind , our bodies and our relationships are watching this , that they would access you more quickly , more easily , hear your voice , feel your presence , experience Eden . In the mighty name of Jesus , we pray Amen .

Speaker 2

Amen .

Speaker 1

Amen . Well , I think that's great to conclude this episode . We'll come back to some of the other donic visitations that I've had and talk a little bit more about that in a future episode .

Speaker 2

I would love that All right .

Speaker 1

Well , thanks for tuning in to Wholehearted Podcast Till next time .

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