S4E6 - Ahel All the Time

Hello and welcome to Who Are You? This is the Babylon five watch cast hosted by two former strangers, now, friends who have gotten to each other while we're watching a favorite show from the childhood, Babylon. Five. I'm Jair.

and I'm Laura.

We're gonna do a quick little recast because it's really the last time I feel like we can and then we're gonna talk about the trailer for the road home. So,

exciting. Who are we gonna recast?

Today we're gonna recast Kash and Mr. Morton.

All right. Who do you wanna do first?

I think Kosh is probably gonna be the most fun.

Yeah. Yeah. Kosh is fun and technically Kosh is already gone, right?

Yeah. Yeah. We see a von that looks exactly like Kosh at the tail end of this episode, but it is, it is not Kosh.

Yeah. We only have two Kosh costumes. That's the issue, I think.

why there's only two war ones at any given time.

Yep. We only made two. It's a lot of shoulder pads, so I I understand the expense.

It is a 80 suit pants worth of shoulder pads. It is crazy. so for Kosh, honestly Think, I mean, you can get away with a voice actor for Kosh. You can get away with like two people playing Kosh, right?

Yeah, for sure.

can, you can pick someone who is older and might not be interested in wearing the body suit and just does doing voice work. And that is a hundred percent where I'm pointing with this uh, because I think that this is the perfect role to bring back a legacy cast member for.

Oh, and who would that be?

I think the best choice would probably be Walter Koenig,

Okay.

knowing that he can only do the voice work and stuff. But I think the most fun choice, and what I'm actually going to put forth is my pick is Bruce Slager,

Okay.

because

voice,

As

we distort it. Okay?

Because it's too perfect that way, like having, having him lead the new Sheridan along the path and be the mentor figure and stuff, it's too good. It'd be like Mark AML playing Yoda. It's, it's perfect. Like just, we don't need to fuck with it. It's great. Leave it

Yeah, I like that there is a nice symmetry in it. We keep our, our boy Bruce working, you know? Yeah. I like it.

What's your pick for Kash?

Okay. So I was kind of on the same, same track as you in that like you can do anything to the voice, right? Because. It's supposed to be distorted, it's supposed to be a little bit electronically manipulated, like whatever, you know. So I kind of thought, well, you know, he needs to be rather tall. I think we need kind of a tall, imposing

Mm-hmm.

body in there. And then I was like, well, okay, I'm just, who, who are actors over six feet tall? I feel like we need to minimum six feet. On that. And then from there, all right. You know what's amusing to me? And I settled on Samuel L. Jackson because he kind of got into his like wise mentor kind of thing in the Star Wars franchise, you know, with Mace Windoo.

That a bit too. Yeah.

Yes. So we could bring back the purple suit you know, maybe, maybe rock that a little bit. And he could just have some fun with it. And then we can, we can do whatever we need to the voice, you know, if the voice isn't working, it's not quite right, it just stirs some filters on it and we'll be fine. Right.

All right. No,

So that was, that was my pick.

For morden, I'm looking for unhinged, yet charming. That can take a turn for downright terrifying.

Okay. Yeah,

And when I think of that role and actors currently doing their stuff, two names immediately pop into mind. That's Tom Hiddleston and Sarah Paulson.

that's funny. I definitely thought about Tom Hiddleston.

Yeah,

Sarah Paulson, though. That's the name I'm gonna have to Google real quick. I see some credits in American Horror Story, which is not a thing that I watch.

I haven't seen that. I know her most recently from the OJ season of American Crime Story or

I see she's got the credit for ratchet too. Yeah. Okay. I could see unhinged there, perhaps. You know, I wasn't thinking unhinged as much with my pick, but I was thinking like, can have a, a smirky face,

Yeah,

gotta have a good smirky

gotta have a good smirky face. Number one, quality of Mr. Morton.

Yeah. And you know, there's that classic sort of trope of at least in America, of bad guys having British accents, you know, we go back to our roots, make them the villains. So I was thinking maybe Benedict Cumber batch.

Okay.

Because he does have, you know, he, he is got some great hero credits, but he's also got some little bit more villainous turns that he's done. So I thought he might make a fine morden.

Yeah, I could totally see that.

Yeah, that's a vaguely British name too.

For sure. Okay. Well that was our quick recasting. let's talk about this trailer. We have not discussed this trailer yet.

That's true, like you and I personally have not had a chance to talk about it.

Yeah. So I'm excited to talk about it cuz I haven't really nerded out with anyone about it yet. So let's, let's go.

it.

So uh, let's refrain from any spoilers past this point, past this episode,

Yeah. Okay.

easy to do.

I think so especially because so much of this trailer is like alternate universe or alternate timeline.

Yeah, we got the alternate timeline universe thing that was. I think we did. We either knew that or that was a theory posited based off the casting list that it

Yeah, I think it was, I think that we, we posited that and then it became confirmed pretty quick.

Okay.

I have the official blurb up if you want me to read it.

Please do.

So the official about blurb when you just Google Babylon five, the road Home says John Sheridan unexpectedly, finds himself transported through multiple timelines and alternate realities along the way. He re reunites with some familiar faces and discovers cosmic new revelations about the history, purpose, and meaning of the universe.

Okay.

there's a lot there.

There is a lot there.

Life, the universe, and everything.

yeah, it, the trailer starts off with, John Sheridan after he has left Babylon five which takes place in the future. This is all post season five stuff. So him leaving the station and going to Mbar and the Mumbai have this thing that runs off of Tachyons and he's

No. No.

to it and he's just like, tachyons. Oh shit. Having been warned by Zaris, if he's ever exposed to Tachyons again, that it's gonna be fucky. And so he gets exposed to Tachyons again and starts traversing time, space, and realities

Yeah.

trying to find his way home. There's a lot of fun, alternate realities here.

Mm-hmm.

I want to know what led to, there's one where they lost the shadow war, and Lando and Ivana are like having drinks in lawn chairs.

Yeah, and I'm, I'm assuming they're on earth. Perhaps not Totally clear.

Yeah.

why would Londo be on Earth? Don't know. Curious how he got there.

Why are Ivana and alando of any character pairing

Yeah. Yeah. The whole thing reminds me a lot of into the spider verse, so I'm hoping that we see the universe where everybody is. Pigs like spider ham.

Yeah, there's just all kinds of like random shit. It looks like the shadows attack Babylon five in season one. In one of these,

Yeah. Okay.

in the old uniform and they're like shooting with Garal and stuff, and they're shooting up shadows and like down below or something.

Yeah, that's probably reminiscent of that vision that Garibaldi had. Right?

I

That's, and I always wanted to know more about that. So I'm really hoping that we get some more detail on like how it transpired.

Yeah, there's a lot of little stuff like that in this trailer. It looks real good. There is some end of the series spoilers at the very beginning, so if you are going through the show right now, And if not finished it and you're going through with us, I'm sorry in advance for that I would say it's probably safe to watch once we hit the start of season five is my gut feeling right now.

Yeah. Okay.

But it's hard to say exactly. We'll know more when we get to watch it in uh, well, I'll get to see it in about a month.

I know. That's so exciting. Do tell.

Well, I'm going to San Diego Comic-Con.

Yeah.

I got a phone call a couple of weeks ago from my old college roommate who has started a board game company and they're like, Hey, we need people to go to Comic-Con and work the convention floor. You know, we've got a booth by, you know, like Marvel and shit or wherever, like on the floor. I haven't seen the map yet. I don't know what we're actually next to, but that's the area we're going to be in. And just like we need people to demo our new board game all day for five days.

Is so exciting.

yeah,

what day would you be going to that premiere? Do you know yet?

it, they haven't. Put out the calendar of when its stuff is

Oh, okay. Okay.

But it is the weekend of like the 20th through the 23rd,

Okay, so I know approximately what days I need to be sitting here stewing in jealousy, right?

yeah. Yeah. I'm sure my, my, my, like my personal Facebook will be lit up with photos. I'll, if anything super cool happens, I'll put it on the Discord too.

Yeah. Do please do.

I have all those Babylon five VHSs from Ben's father-in-law right now in my basement. And I'm thinking I might try and get JMS to autograph a couple of them.

That would be cool.

Yeah, that'd be just a cool piece to have if like, I could get him to autograph my VHS of the gathering or something. I feel like that's, that'd be cool to have.

be great. And you, that's a like a, you can shadow box that you know.

Yeah, for

Get that, get that out on display.

Mm-hmm.

Well, for the rest of us that don't get to go to ComicCon and see the premiere the release date has been set for August 15th, 2023.

Just about my birthday.

Yeah. And I think you can pre-order it at this point, right?

You totally can pre-ordered on this point. At this point, I think on iTunes and Voodoo and a couple other things.

Yeah. Yeah.

Probably on Amazon. It's getting a 4K Blu-ray release, the whole deal.

Yeah, that's, I did see that on the end of the trailer. I was like, wow, we're putting it out on physical media. That's cool. I like it.

I'm gonna, I like all of my other stuff is on voodoo. I own very little physical and honestly the way all of Babylon five has been treated with this on and off and all this streaming service crap. I'm probably just gonna buy the 4K Blu-ray.

Yeah. Be pretty cool.

yeah,

And I, I would imagine that pre-orders for this is a good thing. Like the more pre-orders that are out there, the better.

a hundred percent. I'm sure this will be a, a sign as to whether or not we get a remaster re-release. If this does well, I'm sure we will get a physical media Blu-ray set of the series.

Yeah, and it can only help our chances for reboot someday, I would think.

Yeah. And we can only hope they've got those animated menus that Yum Yu is so fond of.

Indeed.

All right, well, with all that said, we have season four episode six into the Fire Big app.

Yeah. One of the biggest of the series, Shirley.

Yep. Jms, I think I've said this at the end of last episode two had said that if the season five thing hadn't happened, if they thought if they, if he knew season five was gonna happen at this point, the only difference would've been that this would've been a two-parter.

Yeah.

Otherwise it would've been in the exact same spot. Uh, He wanted to. He's like, you know, in real life big things don't happen on, you know, like the end of the year. Like, that doesn't make sense. Why

Yeah, that's true. So,

You know, it, things happen. You know, big stuff happens in the middle of other things. That's part of what makes them big things. So he wanted it to end kind of abruptly, kind of mid season, and he wanted it to be jarring on purpose.

Yeah, and I think that he's also hinted in dialogue in a few previous episodes that just because the big thing is gonna happen doesn't mean the story's over.

Yeah. Yeah. We've had a handful of characters say that now.

Unlike storytelling up until this point where it's kind of like, oh, we fought the big battle and everyone's good and it's happily ever after. Uh, he doesn't wanna tell the story that way.

No, he does not. So we open up on a antsy ivanova wanting to rejoin the fleet when Lorianne is like, no, this is the last of the first ones. We've just gotta wait.

Mm-hmm.

And then uh, Lorian describes Sheridan's plan, not as like in that terms of tactics or anything, but as a crucible to find the truth.

Hmm. Interesting.

Mm-hmm. Then like a space whale shows up.

Yeah,

I know that's not the actual ship, but Yeah.

I thought it was like a wooden ship. It looks very wooden to me.

Yeah, it, this is a weird little thing, but it's not supposed to make sense.

yeah. These uh, first ones are all very like, impossible looking ships,

Yeah, except for the one that's clearly an homage to close encounters of the third kind.

Sure. Yeah. We're not supposed to really be able to comprehend them. They're supposed to be mysterious and unexplainable.

So uh, Could we cut to the white star fleet? And they are attacking a Roan observation post. The white stars successfully blow it up so that they can move the rest of the fleet past without being noticed. And man, this fleet is massive. We get a couple shots that really lend the scale to how many ships they've put together here.

And the different types. Yeah.

We get a. Some lip service. It's over a thousand ships from more than two dozen races.

Yeah. Impressive.

It is a huge fleet.

Yeah. Sheridan is very pleased to command Lanier to take us into the episode

Yep.

and go to theme. I kind of wish that the white star fleet wasn't just numbers.

If

to say that in the last one. Yeah.

I don't think that's very Mumbai, but maybe, I don't know. They've got a name for their one ship. Maybe that. Maybe that's the only one that has one.

Yeah. I guess in, you know, we don't know enough about like Minbar mythology to have any attachment to names, but it'd be cool if there were like some that were named like human things and some that were named minbar things to show the

I'm

melding of the two.

Yeah. You name them all after, well, what would you do? What if you, you're your tel, are your Ranger one, what do you decide they're naming all the white stars after? Make it a theme like all, all the good spaceship runs when you've got a bunch of the same ship. They've all got a naming convention of some variety. Usually,

Mm-hmm.

you know, like a big thing in the Star Trek universe is when you've got a class of ship, a lot of the classes of ship share. Naming convention, like all the Luna class ships are named after moons. What is uh, there's all of the Vesta class ships are named after hills. The California classes are named after cities,

Yeah.

the U ss, west Covina, you know,

Yeah. And you know, you get a lot of um, named after people sometimes in naming ships, but that doesn't seem like a very maari thing to do necessarily, unless maybe it's like artists and scientists and something, but not, necessarily military

I could see them going for like famous peacemakers,

uhhuh.

you know, like naming a ship, the Gandhi or something, you know, like stuff along those lines. I could see that fitting in with the, the Ranger theme as well.

Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

After this Elita is all like, so why are we defending here and not Centre Prime, which is clearly the more important world in storyline.

Yeah.

And Marcus is like, well, cor sticks is choice as many people living on it.

It's just numbers,

Yeah, it's 6 billion versus 3 billion. Like the Centura ideally can handle themselves. Carry on. Six cannot. So we're here. So.

He just hopes that uh, sari Prime can get rid of all their shadow influence on their own, which is a nice place to cut to Wado who's trying to do just that.

He's got 12 hours to go and is just running around trying to get this handled.

Yeah. He's getting, uh, minister Verini all in a tizzy about how fast he wants things done. But I think maybe Minister Verini is just always in a tizzy. Yes.

I would believe so.

Status quo for this man.

Delen passes along Yvanova's status and Sheridan confirms for her to come out. Delen is all like, Hey, did you wanna like have her hang back just in case Sheridan's like, I made a promise.

Well, if deland had made the point, which would be a very valid point, that if something should happen to herself, I. And Sheridan being on the same ship. Perhaps we might need Ivanova to be in a more secure location. I think that's a valid point.

that's why Zack's back at B five

Zack is gonna take over. Well, Garibaldi too.

President. Yeah. Well,

We don't know where Garibaldis at, right? He's not

Aldi's back on the station. I'm pretty sure. I think we, I think we find out what's going on with him now. Next episode.

Yeah. Okay.

Anyways Ivanova and Lorianne talk as she preps at Babylon five before heading out, and she's like, I'm kind of skeptical about this whole first sentient thing,

Mm-hmm.

And man, he's just like, he says she's leading with her mind and not her heart.

Uh Huh.

She reports that she's not on speaking terms with her heart.

Yeah, and he's like, I noticed.

Right.

He tells us that his race is naturally immortal, but they can be killed. Right. But it sounds like they decided that immortality wasn't all as cracked up to be. So they made their later generations not immortal. So he says, he tries to explain to her that the shortness of life is a gift. And only races who are not immortal can believe that love is eternal. Like if you are immortal, you know it's not.

right. He's like, it's the greatest gift, gift your race has received. The ability to believe that love is eternal way to be a fucking downer. Men would rather live forever to dull their emotions away slowly, like a rock in a river. Rather than go to therapy

Nice. Nailed it. So true. So true.

over on Cent Prime, Lando meets with Minister Ano, who's the head of Centuri Intelligence. This dude looks exactly like I thought you would tell me the head of Centura intelligence looks like.

Yeah.

Yep. Just, I don't know. I couldn't have drawn it, but when I saw it, I knew it.

He's the guy with all the secrets and he looks very worn out about them, in my opinion. He's just like, Ugh, back on this bullshit again.

Like old news. but, BT dubs REFA. Didn't kill Tira. It was Morden.

yeah. Which was painfully obvious to everyone, but you. And Wanda reacts accordingly to this big revelation.

Yeah. Peter acts the hell out of this scene and destroys all of the crew's. Lovely. Set work.

Yeah. How many of these shots do you think you'd get? You really kinda have it one go at it, right? Or you gotta just keep destroying props and set.

I gotta imagine on Babylon five, this is a one shot. You don't get to retake this.

You don't have a dozen VAEs sitting in the back waiting to be destroyed.

Nope. Ivanova has let her do lingo streak go. But she's still basically a native speaker. Mumbar guy's promise. She learns all hell is Mumbai for continuous fire,

yeah. She's just shooting at nothing into hyperspace.

right?

This seems like it would be a problem for most humans, right? These, uh, rangers who are in command of these ships, the human rangers they've gotta show some incredible restraint. In my opinion. I would probably be shouting a hell all the time.

Ugh, Lorianne uh, is like, look, you're gonna have to un understand your way to winning this war, not fight your way to winning it.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

We learned Sheridan has hid nukes and a bunch of asteroids again.

There's just no problem. A nuke won't solve for Sheridan. Right. So,

This is the exact same tactic he used to defeat the one Mumbar cruiser in the Earth. Mumbar war. Like if it ain't broke, don't fix it, I guess. But there is, I mean, he does solve a problem without a nuke in this episode, so I can't quite give him the broken record wrap. Uh, This isn't Walter White and Thermite, but. Know, it's, it's getting there.

Yeah. I mean, you would think if you're other races, you might uh, Look for a way to look for hidden nukes at this point, right?

Oh, we're fighting John Sheridan, the guy who hides in nukes and asteroids. Better not fly near asteroids. Morton is brought before Orlando. All healed up. They didn't make 'em put any loon for this scene, which was nice.

Yeah. We need to see this face, right? For reasons

Yeah. Yeah. Morden refuses to remove the ships. Londo has morden's, shadow keepers killed.

Yeah. Nice move.

I didn't know that this was possible.

Yeah, and I, I mean, if I'm one of these sari guards and I'm given instructions to just fire into the air next to the guy, I'm gonna have fun with That

There's dudes behind him too. There's guards in the four corners. So like you're effectively asking me if I don't know, the invisible thing is there, I'm firing at the other guard.

Oh, good point.

Right? It's like mind bending, like. Okay, boss, like you're in charge and I thought you were gonna be better than Cartage, but here we are. Maybe it's just so status quo for them at this point.

Yeah, for the, the lower centa, we just follow orders blindly and we don't have any independent thought. This is just how it is. This is what we do.

He asked Morden again. Morden refuses again. Then Alando plays his hand. Blowing up the entire island of Saini.

Yeah.

you catch, so they show us the island blowing up. Did it look familiar to you? I've seen this island on a map, perhaps?

I did not. I'm letting my geography, whack of knowledge show, but

It, it's Sicily.

Okay. I kind of wonder cuz you know, the name Sini is very similar to Sicily, so I always kind of thought, Hmm. I wonder if that

You know, and Rome and Italy and stuff, right? And then you look at, it, look literally looks like Italy and Sicily. Like if you freeze frame it and like warp the image a little, like it's, it's like drawn out in places. It's like they pulled two corners and stretched it out a bit, but it's literally just Italy and Sicily.

That's, that's a nice symmetry. I like that.

Yeah. Morton is thrown back into a cell after this

Yeah. There's something special for

oh, oh, yeah. Yeah. He's got, he's, something's gonna happen. Ivanovo makes it back to the fleet. Just in time. The shadows and the VLANs arrive at the same time, Sheridan sends up the new steroids, getting both forces to attack Lorianne and Marcus kind of hectically trade places. Lita tries reaching out to the VLANs and we cut back to Centre Prime in what is probably one of the most iconic shots of this entire show.

Indeed we finally get a nice thing for Vere.

yep. Vere gets summoned by Londo. There's a gift waiting for him in the gardens. He walks out. Looks up. Then we get a cut back to, was it season, end of season one, start of season two, where Veer talked to Mr. Morden about what he wanted. He finally answered Mr. Morden's question, and he's like, I, I wanna wave at your head on a pike like this, as it's in the Centri Gardens to warn future generations of the price of power being too high. And he looks up, he smiles and he waves just as

Just like it. Yeah. This is just Chef's Kiss, one of my favorite scenes in all of this show.

now we get the flashback.

Mm-hmm.

And I feel like the flashback is important in the non streaming era of television, cuz we're calling a very specific mannerism from a scene. Three seasons ago is a bit much.

Yeah,

But in streaming, do you think that this flashback exists?

I don't think you need it in streaming. Yeah. I mean, maybe there's something else like in the set pieces or in the costuming or expression on his face. That reminds you of that original scene or maybe even like blocking, like where, where he is in relation to the pike. But I don't think you need the whole flashback in streaming land, but for non streaming land, it's been, you know, years, right? It's been a couple of years since we saw this scene,

Yeah. Oh,

so makes sense.

At the big battle, Sheridan calls on the first ones to take out the Rolon Planet Killer before it can strike. Londo then meets up with Vere in the Gardens who has sent Word to the LANs with the proof that they have removed all the shadows touched from their world and vere's like almost all of it. You are still here, Londo.

Yeah. Londo is very blind to his own part in all of this at this moment.

the rish thing. So the VLANs arrive in orbit, they block out the sun, and Londo is immediately like, veer, you have to kill me and tell the VLANs like, just, here's a gun, shoot me right now. And veer is like, well, we don't know. Maybe, maybe you get a pa. And we know because of the other scene. That the VLANs having just suffered the destruction of their planet killer, have called for reinforcements.

Mm-hmm.

They don't know this but the planet killer gets up and leaves but not because Londo got a weekend pass for his shadow interactions.

Yeah, so they've got a unfortunate Idea that they're okay and maybe, maybe not so much.

After this, Lita gets all funky being taken over by both the LANs and the shadows. She takes Sheridan and Delen elsewhere. Elsewhere, of course, being the gray council set

We only have so many sets.

right, you've got one big empty room with a couple overhead lights installed. It's all you really need.

Yeah. Yeah.

Sheridan yells at Frozen Lady Rolon while Delen gets Shadow. Friends.

Okay. So what's the deal with Frozen Lady vlan?

I think it's supposed to be one of the Centura prophetess

Okay, that's, I thought that that's what it reminded me of at least. I just didn't know, like why,

Yeah, she does that. Interact with like lady who was the Gel Barrett, lady Marella. Remembering that, right. Something.

Yes, lady Marella.

All right. Got it in one. I don't understand it though, like, Sheridan doesn't interact with this character at all. And you've already got like, Kosh, right?

Well, maybe it's not a Centa prophetess necessarily, cuz the cent also have the lady Telepaths. Right? And we know they would've been seated by the LANs. Why? Why sinta? I don't quite know. Like maybe it's symbolic of their. Slipping away from the LANs.

It's a good question that I haven't seen answered anywhere. Maybe I missed it.

Yeah, it's one of those things maybe. Maybe it's out there.

let us know. Sheridan asked the VLANs why they never attacked. Za had doom. They're like, you wouldn't understand. And he's like, bullshit. I nuked that bitch. Just like, come on. Delen gets read the dust jacket of the fountain head by Lanier, and she tells him to fuck off with that reductive bullshit. Delen brings up that the shadows and Rolan refuse to destroy each other because then the other will never know who was right.

boy, I.

This is the worst couple ever, like the worst couple you've ever met. That's,

Yeah. Yeah. The ones who should just get divorced already,

well, the, they're like the couple that's dating that are perfectly miserable with each other,

Uhhuh,

like the, the two worst people you've ever met dating, you know, like that's what this is.

I definitely can picture at least one of these. Yeah.

Sheridan, Delen tell the older races that they're gonna take their ball and go home. The shadow planet Killer Cloud envelops the fleet as both the VLANs and the shadows appear on the bridge of the white star. Lorianne tells them their next words will decide their fate, and to choose them carefully. Sheridan makes them do our cold open, but they didn't prep, so they just sit in silence.

Yeah, I know that feeling.

Had to improvise that one more than once.

Yeah, exactly.

the Lens Lake. How can you expect us to answer when you've forgotten the game is over? They refuse to accept this. They're like, Hey, you can't get everyone to give up on our game if you're blown up. And the fleet surrounds them showing all races are in agreement. A handful of ships sacrificed themselves to save the white star, to let this continue going from various races. And then Sheridan tells them to get the hell outta our galaxy.

Best line ever. Well, there's a, there's a lot of good lines in this show. This is a very good one that I enjoy.

Yeah. Lorianne is like, look, I guided and then step aside, it's time for you to do the same. Y'all need to leave the galaxy to the younger raises now.

Yeah, let's go somewhere else.

they go out past the rim.

Yeah, they just do it. They're tired.

yep. Lorianne,

shown up.

all the first one. Ships that stayed behind and then all the shadows and four lawns. Lorianne tells them they now have stewardship of the galaxy and they must guide their younger races than step aside, as they have. Thus begins the third age of mankind has promised since the beginning of our opening credits in season one, the dawn of the third age, and John goes a little bit into the different ages, but there's actually a bit more of this.

Okay. Do tell.

all right, so. There is a source book that Mongoose did called Darkness and Light, the VLAN and Shadow Fact book, where all this comes from. This is from the Babylon five rpg that we should still figure out a way to play sometime.

Yeah.

So the first age is uh, just you're on your planet and if you don't make it past the first age, it's because you never left your planet right. So like the zone that we hear the cent talk about Neanderthals would be an example of a first age species on earth here. The second age begins when you start exploring the stars and the universe. So space fairing races, second age races. So mankind has been in its second age.

Okay.

The second race evolves and learns a great deal through its elder, but there's a catch. A child grows and must learn, defend for itself without its parents, so must the younger races. If a race grows too dependent on its elder, it loses the capacity to evolve on its own. When that happens, the race may permanently ruin its chance to mature into something more than a shadow of its elder.

Hmm. Okay.

In the third age, a race has rejected its elders further, further guidance and influence, and stands on its own actions. This is becoming a young adult, going out on your own, moving outta your parents' house. During the third age, the race goes through a tech technological boost. Since it's no longer bound to its elders rules this new freedom returns the danger of self-destruction. A third age race could exterminate itself with its new technological discoveries.

Okay.

Following the cultural change, the race has arrived in its fourth age. It is a fully grown adult species, free, wise, and powerful enough to shape the universe as it sees fit and walk among the stars like a giant. The Walkers of Sigma 9 54 are an example as the rest of the first ones. The fourth age is to many the last step of a race since they're now like gods. Fourth age race is powerful enough to fight any outside threat and wise enough to avoid killing itself with its own power.

So did Lori's race self-destruct itself in the fourth age? If he's the only one left.

well, he says that the rest of them left. And so I would say that's the, that's the fifth age race is after you've done the whole guide, a younger race thing, your fifth age is you are Let's see, a fifth age during the fifth. Oh, fifth age races are V lines and shadows. And Lori Ann's race, A race becomes the parent of the galaxy and the guardian of the younger races. And then the sixth age is out there beyond the rim.

When you leave. Okay. That's a lot more ages than I was thinking. To be honest. I was thinking we'd have 1, 2, 3, 4. Hmm. I like that though. That's nice and comprehensive.

All right. So those are the ages. So humanity has now entered its third age.

Finally, it only took us three point. Two, five seasons.

Back on Centre Prime. London refuses to be happy with their survival in the end of the war unless the universe conspire against him.

I mean, I understand you don't wanna be too happy cuz you're gonna draw somebody's attention.

For sure. And he doesn't wanna draw anyone's attention, which is why he's heading back to B five, even though he's prime Minister of the Centara.

Yeah, he's just gonna do that from far away.

just in case. Uh, There are people who think that, you know, maybe Yolanda just overthrew the monarchy. Maybe. Maybe that's not a great feel, not a great place to have. Not the best rep.

Yeah. It's puts a target on your back in a race like the Sari. Right.

Mm-hmm.

Minister Durran is gonna start hearing a lot of things.

The white star fleet heads back to Babylon five and they discuss the future and. The first ones are gone and they need to make their own magic now. Their own legends.

Yeah. As per the age guide that we just read.

Shadow Wars over y'all.

Dun, dun, dun.

It lasted 12 episodes.

I must say in non streaming land, it did feel longer.

Yeah. Well, you had a break in between seasons and like weekly. Yeah.

We had time to mentally stew upon it as we waited each week for more in info. But in streaming land, it does feel terribly short.

quick.

Yeah. I want it to be longer if we live in streaming land for a reboot. And even if the who knows, there may not even be a shadow war in a reboot. Uh, but if it was, I want it to be a little longer, but I have a feeling that we're gonna get some more war anyway.

Oh yeah. But before we get to that war, we gotta ask how you feel about this episode on a scale of Babylons one to five.

Well, if we're going with your criteria from last time about what would I change aside from things like, for some reason, I don't know if it's iTunes or whatever, the audio quality is not great in parts of this episode. For me, that's just technical stuff. You know, we obviously have better CGI now. But like plot wise, I wouldn't change anything. So I guess it has to be a five out of five.

It's the peak of the show, really. Like this is it, like this is, this is the, the big story that we've been building to the whole time. Everything else is aftermath of this and other stuff that's happened in the series at this point. Um, which is not to say that nothing important happens from here on, tons of important stuff happens from here on.

Right.

But yeah, this was, it's a huge episode. It's, it's Babylon five at its beak. It's five out of five for me. No doubt.

Yeah,

And

I love this episode. It's got great quotables.

Mm-hmm.

It's got that chef's kiss of a scene with, you know, Morden and his head on the pike and Veer finally gets

Gets to wave. Yep. Mm. So good.

just I love that stuff. It's great.

All right. Well, after this, we've got season four, episode seven, epiphanies. Earth prepares to shut down Babylon. Five Ster wants Sheridan to return to the shadow home world. And Garibaldi resigns.

Oh. Buster's back, huh? That's kind of a lot Buster's back, baby.

Sters back?

I'm looking forward to that. It's not gonna, we're not gonna have a nice little, we get to rest on our laurels episode,

Nope.

which is what we were hinted at. So here's the payoff.

Speaking of payoff we've, we, we haven't paid him, but we would've liked to thank Jeremy Siegel for our lovely theme music.

Indeed,

If we ever made money. I mean, it'd be one thing.

Yeah, you can find more of Jeremy Siegel's work at Jeremy Siegel 40 two.bandcamp.com or on Spotify and iTunes and all the streaming stuff as nuclear Jaguar where he is doing an album a month for 2023.

Hey, angry duck time machine on Instagram. Thank you for our podcast, art. We really appreciate it.

Indeed and thank you to Erin for editing our podcast. You're really the, the rock of this whole thing. It would not come out without you.

Very true. And thank you listener for tuning in and spending your time with Laura and I as we talk about Babylon five. It's greatly appreciated. Who are you? B five gmail.com is our email address that I always forget about. We have a Twitter that I never check, but it exists. and uh, di Discord is where most of the conversation happens. Oh, we have a Facebook too.

Yeah. We do have Facebook and we are pretty prompt about responding over on Facebook.

well it's cuz that that sends notifications to my phone. So it's easy. Twitter, I don't have installed anymore

Yeah.

since Musk took over.

Yeah, that's been weird. So, but the Discord is a very lively place to be, and it also has notifications on my phone.

It's true. Yep. And people are talking about the trailer there and all kinds of stuff. Or Discord is a blast. Join up there. And hang out with other fans of the show and us.

There's a whole channel just for memes if you're into the memes.

All right, well, we'll see you next weekend. Internet.

All right. Bye.