Hello and welcome to Who Are You? This has been a Babylon 5 podcast hosted by two people who met on the internet haphazardly on a Facebook group. Decided to host a podcast together and have become friends over the course of that podcast, talking about a show that's very important to them from their childhood, Babylon five, I'm Jafar.
Laura:And I'm Laura.
Xhafer:And I guess the last time I was going to say that normally was actually an episode or two ago.
Laura:Yeah. Did you, did you realize it then?
Xhafer:No, no, I did not. I thought I was going to do a normal one. And then I was here in the moment and I did a thing.
Laura:Yeah.
Xhafer:Oh, close enough though. Yeah, we're here. This is episode 150.
Laura:hmm. You carefully crafted and designed our
Xhafer:yes, a hundred percent. The schedule was geared towards our last episode of Babylon five being number 150. It will not work out that way for Battlestar Galactica.
Laura:Yeah. Well, you know, you take them when you can get them.
Xhafer:yeah, it's fun. It was a thing. It was, is the kind of thing where I looked at it and I went, I think we're close enough. Where we can make this happen. Originally we were going to do lost tales. Even, I think I thought it was still three parts at one point and I had lost tales, one, two, three, um, and there to make it one 50, we added movie breaks. We, we, we did a bunch of stuff to kind of get us to this point. And part of that was because one 50 is a nice big number. And part of that is kind of delaying it a bit. Um, this is sad. I mean, we obviously at this point, we are friends.
Laura:For sure. You're one of my best friends. Yeah.
Xhafer:you're one of my best friends too. We talk a lot. We talk a lot on pod and we talk in very careful conversations because we know there's a bunch of strangers on the internet listening. But we also talk outside of pod, um, which was something when we first started this podcast thing, I was very wary about not because I didn't want to talk to you, but because I thought part of the reason to listen to this podcast was the novelty of getting to hear two strangers get to know each other. And I was just like, Oh, what if I learned something really cool about Laura and we find out we have something in common off pod.
Laura:Right. Then are you keeping something from the listener? Have you destroyed your own premise?
Xhafer:Is that a tragedy in a weird little way? Like, is that a sadness to not have that moment be a genuine thing that was recorded because as much as like, let's talk about art, right. And I'm thinking, I've been thinking a lot about this last couple of days because of that podcast I just listened to about the guy who listened
Laura:The one about Fight Club?
Xhafer:because here's the thing is that is, there's like different types of movies, right? Right? Like there's, there's feel good movies that you watch to just be entertained. There's movies that you watch that are art. Right. And, and one of the things that makes those movies different is the emotional space and the experiential space. Right. And that podcast was an experience. And I think, man, it must be so cool because podcasting is very unique and that it's a lot like. Painting and like, there are famous painters where you can see their stuff everywhere, but there are a million painters on earth doing art that you'll never see. And podcasting is a lot like that. There's a million podcasts that you're never going to listen to. You know, the, the best podcast on earth statistically has less than a hundred listens. You
Laura:Yeah. Mm-Hmm.
Xhafer:um, it's, it's, it's that kind of nuance. And I think we did something fun and new and interesting in the space. Despite us being a show about 90s sci fi.
Laura:Yeah. Which those are quite, quite common these days.
Xhafer:Yeah. There's a, there's a million 90s sci fi podcasts. There's a couple dozen Babylon five podcasts and I enjoy them and a handful of them are doing novel fun things to both gray 17 and Babylon five for the first time, having people watch this classic iconic show that's so foundationally important to the history of television for the first time is really interesting. And that's what they did. And that's what makes them unique and novel. What we did was our new experience. Our first time was not with the show, but in getting to know each other,
Laura:Yeah. Flip the script a little bit.
Xhafer:Yeah, I think, I think we did something fun and interesting. And like I said, you're one of my best friends. I really appreciate everything that you've done. You and all of our group that we've kind of got going these days, bring into my life. Um, I think having to sit down and have a conversation, especially in the beginning with a complete stranger so regularly forces. Introspection and growth in a way that is very unique. And I don't want to say difficult cause never felt hard, but
Laura:I mean, there are moments that are hard when you're confronting something different
Xhafer:yeah.
Laura:than you have before.
Xhafer:And also it's like a stability thing. You know, we record, we don't have like a set recording time every week. I think regular listeners to the podcast would know that we've made comments about, Oh, we're recording at a weird time for us. Stuff like that.
Laura:Yeah. We're so behind. We had to record something. That sort of thing. Yeah.
Xhafer:Yeah, but also like we've been through some shit personally, and a lot of it has not made it to the podcast. Um, and I,
Laura:of, some of the early stuff, especially I think.
Xhafer:yeah, and I'm not expecting you to talk about anything you don't want to talk about right now. That's not. Now I'm not interested in that. I mean, I think eagle eyed listeners uh, I went through a divorce in the first couple of months of this podcast.
Laura:Yeah.
Xhafer:Um, it was a very weird, difficult time of my life and I was not a happy person for a lot of the first couple of months of doing this at the very least. Um, I even mentioned, like, I went back and listened to our first episode a couple of weeks ago to kind of prep for this. And I even said the words, my wife in that episode. And I was just like, Like my heart sank for a minute because it was so jarring for me to use that word at that time and think about everything that I've been through. And I'm very happy now, to be absolutely clear. Um, I, I did a lot of therapy. I know I make the joke often, men would rather. I I've done a lot of self searching. I'm in a long term, happy, committed relationship with my partner, Beth, who has become part of this podcasting family as well, which is also so cool.
Laura:It is so cool. She's great. We love
Xhafer:she is great. I do love her. I told her that I loved her and gave her a big kiss on the forehead. Like right before we started recording, um, because I'm in, so just personally, I'm in a lot better space now and it's, I don't know that I'll ever be able to go back and listen entirely to that first season.
Laura:I, I feel the same way. Like, I don't, I don't remember where it occurred in time. And we mentioned it to the listeners, I believe that. early in our show, I had a pregnancy loss
Xhafer:Yeah.
Laura:and I couldn't tell you what those episodes around then were about. I have no idea. Like that is, and that too is when Aaron took over a lot of the edit. He took over what was going to be my, my job to edit completely because I had fallen apart a little bit, but I don't think it made it to the pod either. That was actually when I had started pursuing. Maybe going back for my PhD was right before that. And so I had a lot of like horrific guilt feelings about like, I had, I had found out that I was unexpectedly pregnant. I thought I was going to go start this PhD program. I knew I couldn't, and then I lost the pregnancy. And, and that's, that's a lot of weird things to, to grapple with and guilt about feeling like I wasn't excited about this and then I lost it. And. It was a, a lot to confront and I don't know that I was my best podcaster self then.
Xhafer:I,
Laura:if I was good, good friends and good to listen to.
Xhafer:I mean, it, it takes time to heal and takes time to process things and to understand, and a podcasting schedule is not something that really allows time. You know,
Laura:Yep.
Xhafer:we've been very, very regular. Have we missed an episode?
Laura:I don't think we've missed an episode. We've had some that maybe came out with like, not our favorite edits.
Xhafer:Yeah, there were a couple of rushed ones for sure here and
Laura:Uh huh.
Xhafer:Um, but I mean, that's a monument. I think honestly, all the stuff going on in our lives is the reason why we take a couple of weeks off in between seasons. Cause we just needed time
Laura:Yeah.
Xhafer:and that started as that. And it turned into something that I kind of really like because. It's not, it's not, I miss our conversations
Laura:Yeah, for sure.
Xhafer:And that's something that kind of forces that in. And it forces me to come back with a little bit of a refreshed energy to want to do what we're doing.
Laura:Mm hmm.
Xhafer:And so there's
Laura:It's a breather. Like, sometimes I, I need a, a moment to take a break from the schedule of, you know, need to watch episode, need to make notes on episode, need to find time to sit down and have the conversation about the episode. Um, I always feel fresh when we come back from a break. Like you just had a big long vacation and I was so excited to get to sit back down and do this because I'd had a few weeks and I was like, man, I miss my friends. I just want to talk to my friends.
Xhafer:Yeah,
Laura:Yeah.
Xhafer:for sure. Um, it's such an important, it was such an important and stable part of my life in a time where nothing was important and nothing was stable.
Laura:for me right now, sorry.
Xhafer:Oh yeah. Oh no, no. I mean, no, it's the same thing now. Cause life is difficult right now. PH it's a whole transition for you and your life. Like I'm telling you about these things. So, um,
Laura:I mean, I like everyone at the university. Like I feel very blessed that the PhD students are very collegial. None of the faculty seem to have like secret wars with each other or anything. I mean, I suppose that I might find something out eventually, but I, I feel like those things come to a forefront pretty quickly, usually. know, they're, they're all great people to hang with, um, but it's so much change. It's such a big place compared to kind of what I'm used to in my mind. And some days I just feel very lost and adrift and you know, there's, it's not like when you're at the PhD level problems of like, Oh, I can't make this thing work. Like you can go to your professor, but they don't necessarily have the answer. They, they can point you like, well, maybe you need to try this or maybe we can figure this out together, but they don't know it. There's nobody who has the answers anymore. So I feel like I'm just this little thing floating along in the breeze, trying to figure out where I'm going. Uh, And if at least, you know, every week or so I'm sitting down, I know I have, I have The show I'm going to watch, and I'm going to talk to my friends about it. And I, I have that anchor in the, the wind.
Xhafer:It's so important. Um, I, I, I know I would have been okay without this podcast, but I think this podcast helped me heal very personally and I don't know how privately it's hard to say it's recorded. Like someone could listen and go tell me, especially with the benefit of retrospect, you know, um, but how much this podcast, how important this has been into keeping me a stable person and in turn a happy person. So thank you. Thank, thank you for posting on Facebook. Three and a half years ago saying you'd lost the original partner of this podcast and you wanted to do Babylon five. Uh, And we've said it a number of times, but Ben, thank you for seeing that going, Oh, Hey, Jafar's watching Babylon five right now, commenting and tagging me. Because without that, we wouldn't have started this and without starting this. My life is different in ways that I don't really care to think about because they're, it's not as good.
Laura:I mean, we've, we've grown both of us, our friend sets. I know some of them, I have absorbed your friends and some of them, we've just made random friends together.
Xhafer:Yeah.
Laura:But well, and you've absorbed some of my friends, at least my husband, right? So, it's,
Xhafer:The Jeremy too. I've, I've
Laura:that's true.
Xhafer:conversations with him at some point. He was more definitely you're the one who brought him onto this. You
Laura:That's true. He's in the same, like, Sort of sci fi circle friend set, but we had a different, like, yeah, I, I get that. Um, it's, it's really enriched my life.
Xhafer:yeah, same.
Laura:people all over the country now that I talk to. And I feel like we're good friends,
Xhafer:Yeah.
Laura:we haven't met each other in person, you know, you and I have met in person now, and several of your friends, and of course, we met Victor from Divinia Media and Television
Xhafer:I have not met Victor in person.
Laura:oh, that's right, I met him,
Xhafer:Yeah.
Laura:I forgot, because we were both at that Star Trek Las Vegas,
Xhafer:Yeah, I just didn't see him. Yeah.
Laura:crazy. But I mean, we will see him in person again soon, for sure. And I, it's so strange that, you know, when, when our parents were this age, it wasn't as easy to have these kinds of friendships all across the country. Like you had to be in the same physical space at some point to, and to develop something and then maintain it. And we went a whole,
Xhafer:don't exist for them.
Laura:yeah, we went like a whole year being friends before we met in person.
Xhafer:More than I want to
Laura:than, but probably, I don't know.
Xhafer:what we started. Like, so I know we, like a couple of weeks ago was the anniversary of the release of the podcast. Right. And we had started recording months in advance.
Laura:true. Yeah, that's
Xhafer:and I think our first conversation would have been in April of 2021.
Laura:Yeah. Okay.
Xhafer:didn't meet until. August 2022,
Laura:you're correct.
Xhafer:when I was walking, Beth and I were at STLV, we had gotten our badges and you were in a line and I walked past you and I'm like, I think that was Laura
Laura:You were right. Yeah.
Xhafer:and best I'll like, then turn around and go say hi, dummy.
Laura:Yeah, I was just like making friends with random strangers in line because my husband wasn't flying out for another day. And so I was just waiting in line by myself talking to some guy. Yeah,
Xhafer:crazy.
Laura:it was crazy. And then you brought a whole Bunch of people from Detroit this last year, and I got
Xhafer:That was
Laura:more in person friends.
Xhafer:Yeah. You've met my sister.
Laura:I've met your sister. Yeah.
Xhafer:I would not have put money on that ever happening. Even,
Laura:to see her very much. Cause I think they got sick. Right.
Xhafer:she got COVID, so she spent most of STLV in her hotel room.
Laura:Yeah.
Xhafer:And then her boyfriend was fine and testing negative and was wearing a mask around and being very careful and not hanging out with people. Um, but was at least trying to enjoy his time off a little bit in a, as safe and reasonably as he could.
Laura:Yeah. Is this, it's just crazy that we pulled this off.
Xhafer:Right. It doesn't feel real sometimes.
Laura:It doesn't feel real. And I think, gosh, was, was it prompted by the anniversary the other day that Victor said some very nice things on the discord.
Xhafer:I think it was prompted by a bit on LTO that was not recorded
Laura:Oh, okay. Okay.
Xhafer:when we were talking about stuff beforehand, just about like the crazy happenstance of everything. Because if you hadn't recognized his car talk with Martok shirt, he would not be podcasting with us right now. It's like a very clear domino effect to like, bring him into the LTO. Uh, And that's the first domino, is you turning around and going, wait, Kurtok with Martok? I'd followed that guy on Facebook. And I don't even think you knew it was him,
Laura:No, I just thought maybe it was a guy with a car talk with Martok shirt and then it was actually Victor.
Xhafer:Yeah, it's so funny. Ben's been following, I think I've told this to Vic at some point, Ben's been following Dominion Media and Television on Facebook since like 2019.
Laura:Yeah. Yeah.
Xhafer:he was like one of the ground level, like meme purveyors of Dominion Media and Television. Back when it first was getting started, he happened upon it and he introduced me to it. Um, and it's just like, it's crazy how like, It went from a guy whose memes you were laughing at to someone you have a group chat with and regularly
Laura:Huh. It is so weird.
Xhafer:Yeah. That's the internet. It's crazy. Just like you're exactly right to talk about our parents generation in it. Like when I think about my dad's friends, they were like his frat brothers. Right. And that was just like his friend group that that was that he had met the people he was going to meet. He had made friends with them and he was good with that and living such a different life.
Laura:Yeah. I'm happy to, to make jokes with an internet stranger and then just be like, and you're my friend now.
Xhafer:Yeah, right. A
Laura:we're friends, right? Yeah. Cool. Cool.
Xhafer:Yeah, it's so cool. And I mean, I've known Ben a very long time at this point to bring, you know, him in to introduce you guys Gloria and Beth and the whole crew. Um, you know, just to name drop everyone. It's like, it's just, it's so cool. It's so, God, I feel like I'm spending a lot of time tooting our own horn about how great everything is for us. Um, but it's all. It exists. It's this thing, it's a community and it's not just like the people that I personally know. Like if we were to ever roll into a live show town and God fucking, I don't even want to think about that. That's so much fucking work. Logistics is a fucking nightmare. Um, but like if there was ever a situation where I were to run into someone who is a listener of the podcast from discord and they'd be like, Oh, Hey, I'm, I would lose my fucking
Laura:me too.
Xhafer:That would be the best thing that happened to me that day, regardless of anything else. Probably there might be one or two things, but like,
Laura:I'm not sure what it says about me, but I would immediately consider you my bestie. I would be like, oh my god,
Xhafer:Oh, we're hugging. I'm a hugger. A hundred percent.
Laura:Exactly.
Xhafer:I feel like it's so nice to actually meet you in person. It's crazy. And it's just like, I would not know your real name
Laura:Yeah. Yeah.
Xhafer:and you would know my voice, even though we have never spoken.
Laura:yeah.
Xhafer:gotta be fucking weird.
Laura:The, the parasocials they call it, I think.
Xhafer:yeah. And I mean, we've gotten to chat with Adam and Ben of Greatest Generation and It's I think about their relationship with their podcasting audience, being a member of that podcasting audience.
Laura:Yeah. Yeah.
Xhafer:like interacting with them on a more personal level and having actual conversations with them and stuff. And then like. I think about that for me, and it's weird. And, and then I think about their interaction, especially early interactions with me, and it's exactly the same. And I know that like they would, they, the way they feel about me was the, is the way I just like, I'm so grateful you're here. It's so nice to finally meet you, but also like our relationship has been entirely one sided for you. Like you have interacted with me for hours of listening and I am having my first conversation with you right now. And that's a very weird, liminal kind of head space. Um,
Laura:Mm hmm.
Xhafer:yeah. So I, I, I guess I appreciate them more, but also I don't want to talk to them anymore because I, I
Laura:don't want to be a burden to them. I don't want to like, you don't, you don't need to remember me. Like, you know, you've got all these other things you gotta do and people you gotta charm like I'm charmed. You can go on like,
Xhafer:Yeah. You've done your time. You've paid your penance for my listenership uh, more, more than once over by agreeing to give us a bump. Speaking of which this is the worst segue I've ever done. I was looking at the analytics of our episodes cause I was curious. Um, do you want to take a guess for what our highest listened episode is outside of the pilot, which is always going to be the most listened to episode?
Laura:It's gotta be the fugitive with Adam Ika, right?
Xhafer:A hundred percent. It is.
Laura:Mm-Hmm.
Xhafer:Do you want to guess by a percentage how much more popular that episode is than the one we did with Ben?
Laura:Oh no. Oh,
Xhafer:was shocked
Laura:Uh, Percentage.
Xhafer:just because the subject matter. Um, but it's, it's a disparity.
Laura:Um, well, and, and Adam also got the benefit of the novelty of it, of he was our first of the greatest generation. So,
Xhafer:I know they're never going to listen to this because this would probably be a fight for not a fight, but I could see them talking like a little joke and back and
Laura:Yeah. Jokey jokes digs at each other. Um. 50%?
Xhafer:It's not that much,
Laura:Okay.
Xhafer:but it is 35.
Laura:okay. I was, the 30 was the next number I was going with. Wow. Okay. Hmm.
Xhafer:I know we don't talk about like listenership statistics at any point either on the pod.
Laura:Yeah. I'm not, I don't need that.
Xhafer:yeah, but,
Laura:You can share now. You
Xhafer:Yeah, I mean, we just hit a big milestone. We just hit 40, 000 total listens, which is insane,
Laura:That is insane. I, I'm trying to put it into like, okay. That's like four Tahlequahs at the time I grew up there. Like people, if you talk people
Xhafer:right?
Laura:not individual people. Those are lessons. Okay. Yeah. That's really neat.
Xhafer:Yeah, like if each one of those is an hour, right? Each listen for easy math. And we were to equate that with people watching Babylon five, people have listened to our podcast or the equivalent of 307 complete watch throughs of Babylon
Laura:5. Oh man, I hope that's, I hope that's true. I hope that there are 307 people out there that did a complete watch through with us. That would be fun.
Xhafer:So yeah,
Laura:Also a nice little boost on the streamings.
Xhafer:yeah, good for Babylon five. We should probably talk about it a little bit to show itself.
Laura:Oh yeah, we haven't done that. We've been talking for like 20 minutes and haven't talked about Babylon 5.
Xhafer:well, that's because as much as we, as much as the podcast is about Babylon five, the podcast
Laura:It's also not. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Xhafer:Um, before we do that we did get, we did not. Really ask for letters. I don't think in a timeframe. Um, we, I got a couple of quick little messages from people on discord. Um, but I've got one that I want to read
Laura:Okay.
Xhafer:and it's from our editor, Aaron.
Laura:I'm a
Xhafer:this, he sent this into me. Um, I have not read this yet,
Laura:Okay.
Xhafer:so I'm going to read it aloud for the first time. So when I trip over my words, my bad.
Laura:Just retake it.
Xhafer:Yeah. Um, hey there, editor Aaron here. Long time listener, first time caller, normally I prefer to work behind the scenes, but I'm finally writing in, based on a prompt Laura gave at the end of season 5 recap, to share what watching Babylon 5 for the first time meant to me. She probably doesn't remember saying this.
Laura:no, I do. I do.
Xhafer:As crazy as it sounds to be the editor of a Babylon 5 podcast, I had never actually gotten past Soul Hunters prior to starting Laura's rewatch for this podcast. I knew it was one of Laura's favorite shows, and I'd even bought her some of the DVDs one Christmas early in our relationship, but we had never made time to sit down and watch. When Laura brought up the idea of doing a Babylon 5 podcast, I was admittedly a bit skeptical. Would there be an audience? Would anyone care? Ultimately, Laura and I agreed early on that we wouldn't host together due to the demands of raising a family. Side note. Yeah, that would be insane.
Laura:Yeah. Can you imagine? Can
Xhafer:No,
Laura:I guess people do it, but I don't know how they do it.
Xhafer:Yeah, back to Aaron. Nonetheless, I was looking forward to finally sitting down together to watch the show that had made a big enough impact on her to make her want to go through this whole podcast thing. Little did I know how deep my involvement would get. Initially, I was not even going to edit the show at all, but the reality of Lauren's first schedule meant that if the podcast was going to continue in five, Thrive, an extra set of hands and ears were going to be needed. I could tell how important the show was to Laura, and I wanted to help where I could to make sure it would happen and be the best it could be. And with that, I started my complete Babylon five, watch through editing a podcast for a show I had never seen while still somehow managing to avoid major spoilers. I'd note again, Aaron, if I forced you to have spoilers by putting in spoiler warnings that you then had to listen to, I'm so sorry.
Laura:Oh, those don't count. Those don't
Xhafer:count there when watching Babylon five for the first time means to me. It's almost impossible to put into words. Of course, it is a great show in its own merits. And Laura Ingefair spent 150 episodes expanding on that far better than I could. Seriously, you should go listen. For me, it was so much more. Not only was it a way to spend quality time with Laura, sharing an important part of her life, but also a new creative outlet for me. The years, yes, years, I've worked on this show have encompassed some of the highest highs and lowest lows of a person's life, a global pandemic, the birth of a child, the death of a parent, making new friends. All the ebbs and flows of a life lived. All of these moments are forever entwined with Babylon five, and I wouldn't trade it for anything. Thank you to Jafair for your dedication, for trusting me to handle edit full time and for all the drop call outs. Thank you to Laura for your determination to make the show happen, your grace when there was a late night edit, and for sharing this part of your life with me. And to you both, congratulations on creating 150 episodes of the show. It is no small feat to get this far and is an absolutely a testament to your hard work and dedication. So here's to you, to Babylon 5, to 150 episodes, and hopefully many more. Thanks for letting me play a part. All the best. Aaron, I knew we were going to cry this up
Laura:feel so embarrassed because we have the easy job, you and me.
Xhafer:for sure.
Laura:job is the hard job.
Xhafer:His job is a hundred percent the hard job.
Laura:Yeah.
Xhafer:It's one thing to sit here and just bullshit off the cuff. It's another to have to make that intelligible
Laura:Huh.
Xhafer:and we don't make it easy. Oh, well, thank you, Aaron. And thank you. I know we thank you at the end of every episode, but I mean, this is for you. I guess you could, this doesn't have to stay on the pod. That's your call. But you know, you're just as much. You're such, you're the most important part of this in a lot of very real, tangible ways, because this podcast wouldn't have made it 150 episodes without you.
Laura:Yeah. It probably would have like slowed down with, we wouldn't have been able to claim that we never missed an
Xhafer:no, for sure. We would have missed episodes. We probably would have dropped every other week. I don't know that we would have hit an ending and that slowing of momentum. I don't think allows us to do the other stuff. Which is also important and enriching though, the general, I don't think if I had to edit who are you every other week that I would be doing last time on right now,
Laura:Yeah.
Xhafer:and I really like last time on,
Laura:Mm hmm.
Xhafer:and I like that it affords me a chance to hang out with my buds. Even more weak.
Laura:Mm hmm.
Xhafer:Um, so yeah.
Laura:We, I, I, I don't want to turn this into a sappy, like love letters from husband to wife and wife to husband, but, um, I, there's so much I learned in the last few years. Mm hmm. Thanks. Um, part of watching this show again was like grappling with how I saw the world as a child and how I see the world now.
Xhafer:Oh fuck. Yeah. That's a real thing.
Laura:yeah, um, you know, I, I had the Sheridan stepdad. I've, I've bought it all hook, line and sinker. Sheridan was the best and the hero. And coming back and rewatching the show, I've, I've have a lot more nuance about the roles of men in the world and how much damage they have actually done to me personally. Uh, And Um, I don't know, I just, Aaron's had to sit in the front row seat for a confronting of a lot of that, and I appreciate that he has always. handled it with respect and nuance because I do tend sometimes to just like throw everything out, you know, if there's one, one bad piece in it, I'm like, well, this is all bad, you know, um, but black or white.
Xhafer:room floor from those episodes we edited that Aaron kept in and the podcast is better for it.
Laura:Mm hmm. I tend to think very black and white about stuff, and I get that partly from my upbringing, probably partly from my neurology, like the brain meets, and yeah. He's always been a presence of like, well, is it all bad though? You know, do we have to throw all of that out? you know, that there, there is more flexibility in life than I ever imagined. And I don't know. Where it all came from. I think some of it comes from watching shows like Babylon 5 when you had the clear like good and evil sort of almost like if you if you read it just on surface level shadows and Vorlons dark and light like and that's the level you get when you're a child. You don't, you might be developing those critical thinking skills, but you don't have them yet.
Xhafer:Yeah.
Laura:And I feel like my world was built a lot on that sort of framing of this is black or it's white. It's this or it's that. And the first person in my life that Made me realize it didn't, I didn't have to think that way and I could be flexible and I could, you know, if, if I was going to be five minutes late to something, it didn't mean I shouldn't go like his is Aaron and he's kept this thing afloat by reminding me, like, if you miss a week of recording, it's not all over, you just get back on the horse.
Xhafer:Yeah.
Laura:I think that's, so what, what do you feel like the biggest journey with the show material has been for you?
Xhafer:Um, I have, I, I, I think I've talked about this a little bit that uh, Garibaldi reminds me a lot about my dad,
Laura:Yes, we have talked about it.
Xhafer:um, in a lot of ways. And some of that is like as a character. And when I was a kid, for sure, Garibaldi was my favorite. Um, I, I had lots of like Lego space dudes and my favorite was Garibaldi. I named him Garibaldi and I would play the little Lego games with him and stuff, you know, um, and a lot of that was because I saw so much of my father. And as a child, I saw so much of my father in Garibaldi. And in that very limited scope of, you have to view like viewing the show as a child and viewing the show as an adult are very, very different experiences with very, very different stories being told exactly because it's that black and white when you're a kid, because that's what your little. Puddle of a binary brain can process. And then as you understand nuance and you understand the four lines are actually the bad guys in a lot of ways. And that it's not a show about good versus evil. It's a show of being able to break free of all of those cycles to find a path forward and freedom. In a very real way. Um, and I got completely off topic there, but my relationship with Garrett Baldy on this rewatch and seeing the not so great aspects of him as a character, and we make jokes about, you know, homeschool security school and stuff, but there's, there's a lot of stuff with him. That's not good. And it's a lot of the stuff that as an adult, I had to wrestle with of recognizing it, my father as well.
Laura:Mm hmm.
Xhafer:And I wonder how much of that was. Maybe comprehended in the background by my little puddle of a brain, or if it's just a coincidence that there's so much overlap between them as a character and as a person in lots of weird ways. If I'm just reaching for anything that connects me to him because he's been dead for four years now, you know, um, there's a lot of that there. And that's a lot to deal with and unpack. And that was one of the big things for me in the rewatch. And the difference between viewing it as a child and adult. And then the one that I know hits us both super heavy and the election is next week, is the descent into fascism and that's the stuff that as a kid, you're like, Oh yeah, wait, those humans are the bad guys, I guess. Okay. Whatever, you know, like, and you kind of just gloss like, I didn't really know what was going on until I did my rewatch. Um,
Laura:Mm hmm.
Xhafer:and I mean, When we started this, I was wrapping a rewatch. Like I just finished going through in my personal time during COVID and rewatching the entire show. Um,
Laura:Yeah. As one does during a pandemic, re watch an entire show.
Xhafer:I mean, I got COVID and watched the entirety of the office in like two weeks. All I did was watch the office and I remember nothing. And that was my first viewing of the office and I still hate it
Laura:Yeah.
Xhafer:as its moments. Anyways. It's just like dealing with that in 2020. Like just coming off of a Trump presidency and now here on the precipice.
Laura:No. Don't say it.
Xhafer:Well, okay. So I mean, real talk, to be perfectly honest, I'm, I'm not terribly concerned about the results because I'm, I don't think this country is about to fall into fascism. And I mean, I saw someone else and they meant this in a pro Trump manner. But it was kind of reassuring in a way of democracy holds where it's just like, Hey, you know, right now to be the most authoritarian president in history, you have to win four elections in turn an entire population. And you know, do a couple of the things that FDR did that were not particularly great. Um, and I saw someone posting that. In reference to like, Trump's not that bad guys. and you know, the dirty Democrats are just the worst always. Cause that's, you know, it's the, the, the Colts there is just so astonishingly brainwashed not to say that no one, no, no, there's not any brainwashed Democrats, but it's a whole thing. And that, that's a, give me a little bit of hope where it's just all like, you know, this country has survived a lot of bullshit. Um, so. My main concern is four years of more Republicans on the Supreme court. I think that's the worst thing to come out of a Trump presidency because that that's the kind of long lasting damage that it will take 30 or 40 years to even begin to start to correct, and the court has already shown that they're just completely worthless at this point.
Laura:Yeah,
Xhafer:Um, so, you know,
Laura:Yeah.
Xhafer:it be an episode of this podcast if I didn't go on a leftist rant?
Laura:yeah, it's tradition as is tradition.
Xhafer:Mm hmm.
Laura:I think the biggest growth I had already I've, I've talked about was seeing that things aren't as easy as they look. It's not all tied up in a bow like you think. I wish I could remember who I said was my favorite character. Did I say Londo?
Xhafer:I think you did.
Laura:Yeah, I still find him the most interesting. I think
Xhafer:Okay.
Laura:is very tragic
Xhafer:Yes.
Laura:and, you know, you make your choices and you lay in it, but Lando in particular, it feels very sad because he starts as, you know, the clown and he's doing the clown bit because he is terribly hurt by, you know, His irrelevance and seeking that relevance just ruins it ruins a whole lot of stuff
Xhafer:Yeah, I don't, I think I have a lot of fond memories of Lando and the Lando Jakar mess arounds of season five
Laura:are fun.
Xhafer:are fun. And I thought that was so much more of the show than it is for so
Laura:weird, right? I thought a lot of those. Goofums happened in earlier parts of the show, but they were actually busy hating each other and being at each other's throats.
Xhafer:Yeah,
Laura:And that, that relationship between those two actors, you just can't compare that to anything. Like it was outstanding. You wish that we had Andreas for a few more years.
Xhafer:yeah,
Laura:Do you think that the show might've gotten some more Substantial movies, reboots, if we'd had some of our actors a few more years.
Xhafer:no, because I don't think the problem was the cast. I think the problem in a lot of it is, okay, so much of this is like painted by JMS's relationship with the studios,
Laura:Yeah. Mm hmm.
Xhafer:And that is not a good relationship. From either side and so much of like going back and reading usenet stuff on the lost tales taking forever. Um, you know, fucking road home has been out for over a year at this point. And when it was launched, it was like, Hey, if the DVD sales do great, then there's going to be more announced real soon. We've already got all these art assets built and all this stuff. And when I was doing research for lost tales, I saw. Almost the exact same verbatim post from him from 2009 about lost tales or 2008, whatever.
Laura:Yeah. Yeah.
Xhafer:Right. And then I saw, I even saw a followup talking about how great the sales were for lost tales, how it did much better than expected. All this stuff,
Laura:I was one of those who bought it. Yeah. Yeah.
Xhafer:And we heard the same thing about wrote home and it's been absolute silence. And I know JMS is not the person who promises things before they happen. Right. He's gotten in trouble in that in the past. But it's just like. Is it that it's doing great and did great and that there's this relationship with the studio where you let along with the carrot and stick for like the 20th time of your career, in which case I'm so sorry. Um, is it that the studios want more Babylon five, but they don't want to work with you
Laura:I don't know.
Xhafer:you're notoriously difficult about some of this shit.
Laura:Yeah. Yeah.
Xhafer:just like, I don't know where the, I don't know where it is. And I know that like, if, if Joe were to walk in my front door right now, It's not even something I would ask him about because I know, I know that one, he won't say anything until it's for certain and I respect that to be absolutely clear. That's a good stance to take when you're dealing with crazies on the internet. And if anyone's done enough of that in their life, it's him. You know, he was the pioneer of creators dealing with fans on the internet. And so if he's apprehensive about saying things before they happen, that comes solely from experience of dealing with overzealous fans like me.
Laura:hmm.
Xhafer:So I can't throw shade at that. I respect it. Even if I hate it, I respect it. Um, but it's also just like, I don't know what I, I don't know what I'd want. Like if, if Babylon five reboot got picked up by what's a best case scenario, HBO.
Laura:Yeah. Mm hmm.
Xhafer:and they announced it's exactly his vision and it's going to be 26 episode seasons and they're going to have 2 million budgets for every episode and every surviving cast members agreed to come back on an auxiliary role and they're going to do new cast for the main actor for all the roles, but like Sheridan is going to be fucking kosh or whatever. Right. They got Bruce's cosh, whatever, whatever. It fucking doesn't matter. Right. Um, like that is as ideal as it can get. I don't know how excited I would truly be.
Laura:Yeah,
Xhafer:And I don't mean that in a, like it's unbound and unmeasurable. I mean, I'm going to have to approach it with a level of apprehensiveness and wait and see that I don't know that I would be capable of enjoying it until we're three seasons in. Because I'd just be waiting for, even if it's perfect, if it's fucking flawless and it's. Just better than I could possibly imagine because I trust him to make a better show than I can. He does it professionally. I just talk about shit on the internet. I don't know how excited I would be truly. I don't think I would be. I think I'd be worried and apprehensive the entire time until it was done. And then I'd be worried. And even if it is perfect and we get five seasons and it's fucking glorious, I'd be worried and apprehensive that there's going to be another fucking lost tales
Laura:uh,
Xhafer:fucking legend of the Rangers that comes in shits on the legacy of the great thing he made.
Laura:Yeah. And well, we live in the post Game of Thrones world, right? Where people were so, so hype for Game of Thrones. And then, because of a difficult creator not finishing his work, It declined in quality quite seriously in its seasons that went beyond the original material, and I think that that sort of audience would translate over and they would just be, they would probably find something to dislike about every episode.
Xhafer:is too strong of a female character guy. It's got a review bomb this and that's not even actual people. That's probably just fucking bots.
Laura:And society
Xhafer:I don't think the show can exist and tell the story that it told. In a meaningful way in society right now. And that fucking sucks.
Laura:right now is very hard. I mean, I've, I feel like I've been grappling with this just a little bit in my new work in that,
Xhafer:Mm hmm.
Laura:man, things are kind of getting out of our control.
Xhafer:Yeah.
Laura:And I mean, maybe, maybe that's not accurate. Maybe All we ever had was an illusion of control to begin with. And now, because of the scale and speed that things move, especially information, information is the big problem right now. Not, not good information. Good information should be everywhere all at once, right?
Xhafer:Mm hmm.
Laura:There's so much of it that's bad, because it's been manipulated by someone, or because it's Trying to manipulate you and don't know how we get around this.
Xhafer:I forget if I went on this rant on this podcast or LTO, but the media is not invested in telling you the truth. The media is invested in keeping you entertained and
Laura:Um,
Xhafer:and go check out ground news.
Laura:yes, we, we had that on this
Xhafer:That was, that was this pod.
Laura:That was this podcast,
Xhafer:I, I am always worried. I'm going to offend you by not being able to remember what conversation I had was.
Laura:I can't remember who I told what, when, and I know I repeat myself to a lot of people and I'm super embarrassed about it.
Xhafer:Yeah. Okay. Listen, I don't know what you were expecting this episode, but you probably got something that you weren't out of our conversation so far.
Laura:we didn't uh, recap much show. We
Xhafer:No. Well, we've done that for 150 hours. If you want to know how I felt about an episode, go listen to my review of that episode. I'll probably feel differently the next time I watch it.
Laura:we, we.
Xhafer:we. change and we grow.
Laura:so wild.
Xhafer:Right.
Laura:It meant a lot to us. I think it still means a lot to us. And it will probably continue to mean a lot to us. So that's, that's our whole deal. And we're glad that you came along.
Xhafer:I really look forward. Like Beth doesn't listen to this podcast. Right. So I can say a thing right now and then it's not like a surprise or news or anything, but uh, she tried to watch the first season of Babylon five. She got through most of it. She really liked the first season. She turned on the first episode of the second season, hated Sheraton immediately. Wanted Sinclair back and never picked it up again in like three years after enough time has passed. I know I'm going to be able to like get her to start again. And I am looking forward to being on the Laura side of the Laura Aaron coin and watching that with her as she gets to experience it for the first time. Um, but I would not recommend doing it now because I think things are a little too real with the fascism.
Laura:Yeah. I would like that to improve just, just a skosh. Just
Xhafer:that'd be great
Laura:skosh.
Xhafer:if we could just suddenly Take the lead out of everyone's blood and brain that's poisoned so many people and start there and then move into reinstating. I honestly, like I think about what I would do, like chair your president. I'm like, fuck. Immediately. Fuck. I'm so fucked.
Laura:Oh no. Oh no.
Xhafer:it's just a terrible idea. Whoever decided this bad call, but we're stuck with it now. The first thing I'd do, like you can't call yourself news unless you present both sides of a story. You have to call yourself entertainment. You can't call yourself the news.
Laura:Hmm.
Xhafer:I think that's where it has to start.
Laura:Yeah.
Xhafer:I think we have to take our media back. And if that's investing a bunch of money in PBS, which I don't like the idea of like a government run news station
Laura:Right. That has its own problems, doesn't
Xhafer:its own problems for sure. Um, but it's either that or break up a bunch of these news megacorps and not let them call themselves news. I think, I think you have to start there. You have to start with getting trust. and information back into people's brains. You have to start with critical thinking. You have to start with every side has more than one thing going on. The truth is a three edged sword.
Laura:Hell yeah. Good, good pull. Some smart guy said that, right?
Xhafer:Yeah, totally. I see it on LinkedIn all the time.
Laura:Yeah, me too.
Xhafer:Well, we've talked a lot about the past.
Laura:Yeah,
Xhafer:Do we want to talk a little bit about the future?
Laura:Yeah, I guess it's time to look forward to something.
Xhafer:Yeah,
Laura:I'm a little scared to be honest.
Xhafer:scared of the election being next week or scared of Battlestar
Laura:Oh, well, I mean, that's, that's without a given. I'm a little scared of Battlestar Galactica. Um,
Xhafer:I know that this comes out like after the results will be
Laura:I know we're going to
Xhafer:I hope I, I hope I still have hope in my voice when you're listening to this episode. Like if you listen to this episode and see me in person, I hope that I have hope in my voice when you talk to me when this episode airs.
Laura:I just, if, if we're hosting every episode of Battlestar Galactica, like, totally drunk, you know why, you know why, listener.
Xhafer:You know what happened. Well, you're living through what
Laura:I mean, I, I hear that Battlestar Galactica, I have this like vision of it in my head because I've never seen any of it, but you know, I've absorbed some of the zeitgeist, um, as being rather dark. So.
Xhafer:It is, um, it's dark. Uh, the ending is rough. It's rough. It is not sleeping in light.
Laura:Oh.
Xhafer:Just I'll just get that out of the way right now.
Laura:Mm hmm.
Xhafer:Um, takes a turn in the fourth season. And there's actually a lot of stuff it this weekend as we're recording. This was the 20th anniversary of the show.
Laura:Wow. I didn't know that. Okay. Bye bye.
Xhafer:we're just like we started our Babylon five watch right around the anniversary of the show. We are starting a battle, a battle star watch right around the anniversary of the show. Um, I thought about cutting the episode count to get us to launch on the anniversary.
Laura:No, but the, the round number is just too delicious.
Xhafer:poll of the big round number.
Laura:Mm hmm. I get you. Same.
Xhafer:anyways there's actually some really interesting stuff that came out of the convention that was, they had a reunion convention this weekend
Laura:I saw pictures of that somewhere. I don't know if one of my friends went
Xhafer:If I
Laura:if it was just convention pictures.
Xhafer:yeah, if I hadn't had just taken my big trip, I would have gone.
Laura:Yeah.
Xhafer:Um, a hundred percent. And they, they, Katie Sackhoff already surprise announced they're doing it again next year.
Laura:Oh, good.
Xhafer:So maybe we make a point of it next year. We have to talk about STLV. Um, I mean, I know I, I said this in the Discord, I think earlier today when Vic was trying to be like, Hey, wanna do Star Trek Fort Worth or whatever instead, STFW,
Laura:but yeah,
Xhafer:and I was just like, the worst part of STLB is being in Vegas.
Laura:it's, it's a bit much. Yeah. You need a certain night's limit on Vegas.
Xhafer:we, we have that group chat that we used to organize this last trip. I need to post in there and be all like, Hey, do we want to do a different Star Trek con and just have the big group go to a different city?
Laura:Mm hmm. great question.
Xhafer:They had the thing for Battlestar Galactica this weekend, and there was some interesting stuff Ron Moore said about the finale,
Laura:Oh. Boom.
Xhafer:about some regrets that Ron Moore has about the finale,
Laura:Oh, my. Okay.
Xhafer:um,
Laura:Did I tell you about almost running into him at Star Trek Las
Xhafer:like physically running into him, like that time John
Laura:that, remember that, that narrow hallway? Because they had, like, things blocked off.
Xhafer:yeah.
Laura:Like, Aaron and I were coming this way, Ronald D. Moore was going that way, and He's not a tall man.
Xhafer:Yeah,
Laura:I mean, I'm not saying anything about that. I was just like,
Xhafer:I was surprised when I, when I ran into Adam Cole at what a short King he was, he's a, he's a professional wrestler. Who's billed a six foot and he's like maybe five, four,
Laura:Not six foot?
Xhafer:maybe five, four
Laura:I mean, we stan a short king, obviously, around here.
Xhafer:all right, Battlestar, I, I actually have had it up in front of me for about three minutes now.
Laura:Oh, okay.
Xhafer:But I have the podcast, the new podcast artwork. That you sent over to me, um, a week ago when we were recording the last episode. It's superb.
Laura:Yeah.
Xhafer:The lettering is great. I love the little dip in the R I love that. It's like, kind of like, It, it moves around a bit. Um, the depictions of us are excellent. We're both dwarves for some reason. Uh,
Laura:Just their, their style
Xhafer:yeah, but I dig it. Pun intended. Um, no, I love it. Um, I love it a lot.
Laura:Yeah. The, The artist decided to pose us a little more familiar with one another. And I was like, well, that's perfect because we are now a little more familiar with one another.
Xhafer:it's true. Um, we're not changing the name or anything. We're still going to be, who are you? Um, it kind of works for Babylon or for Battlestar Galactica. It's not a thing like it is in Babylon five. But there is a bit of mystery around the individual, um, which I'm not, have you seen anything?
Laura:The, I know, okay. I will give you what I know of Battlestar Galactica. Cylons, bad. Cylons, robots, and could be anyone at any time.
Xhafer:Yes. Okay. That's the thing is who, who the silence are is like dispersed among the populace is a huge mystery. That's led on in the very first episodes in the mini series, you find out someone's asylum. They're just like, Whoa. Um, That's it's a thing throughout the entire show.
Laura:Yeah. And I guess Cylons want to exterminate humans. Yes.
Xhafer:Yeah, I'm going to just confirm for the audience right now. I've seen all of it. I know who all of the silence are, whether they're one of the normal models or one of the final five, which is the whole other thing
Laura:Oh boy.
Xhafer:learn about. Um, I remember all of it. I remember every single one right now thinking about it. If I say something otherwise on the pod, then I was having a lapse in memory because right now I can name and visualize them all. So, I will not be spoiling any of it.
Laura:Yeah. Cause you have me to talk to. So
Xhafer:Um, I will really, really want to but I will ask out of the novelty of it that we don't talk about it in the discord.
Laura:okay.
Xhafer:is someone who's asylum, not of everything to spoil. I think that is the biggest. Um, so I'm going to ask our listenership and our friends in the discord to not ruin that for you.
Laura:It's a no Cylon zone
Xhafer:no silent zone, the discord. Um, we will probably, I will archive some of the B5 channels. They'll still be active. Um, but we'll move on to. Like I'm going to get rid of B5 spoiler town and it will just be B5 chat or something. I don't know. Uh, But there will be a current with the pod battle star Galactica channel. There will be a spoiler battle star Galactica channel. And
Laura:not allowed there.
Xhafer:if I can figure out how to do it,
Laura:Keep me out.
Xhafer:ban you from it.
Laura:I've been banned on the discord.
Xhafer:I might have to like, take away your system admin on the discord and just give you. Individually and not the role
Laura:I mean, I've never used the system admin powers anyway.
Xhafer:So, um, so I'm going to try and figure that out.
Laura:Okay.
Xhafer:Um, and have a channel that you just don't even have access. You just won't even see it.
Laura:That'll be
Xhafer:Um, Aaron's
Laura:a
Xhafer:it all though, right?
Laura:Yes, he has seen it all.
Xhafer:Okay, cool. I'll keep him and everything then.
Laura:Yeah. He can stay a system admin.
Xhafer:so. Yeah, we got the show coming up. We're going to do the mini series and two apps. We're going to continue with movie breaks. We're going to continue with breaks in between seasons. We're going to do the webisodes. And I've already got them like the razor flashbacks and all that stuff. I've got all that planned in the viewing order. We're going to do Caprica. We're going to do the plan. We're going to do Blood and Chrome. I've got season recaps as part of the plan right now as well. Um, I might remove those and we might just do a series recap. We'll see. Um, and that's going to take us through until. March of 2027.
Laura:Holy shit.
Xhafer:We will have 200 is it's currently planned 262 episodes of podcast recorded. So Battlestar Galactica is going to be just over a hundred episodes, 112 right now.
Laura:Okay.
Xhafer:the season breaks or the season recaps, then I'm taking out another five. that's, that's the plan forward. We're taking a couple weeks off.
Laura:Yeah. I think we've, we've earned a couple of weeks of breathing space.
Xhafer:Yeah, I mean, I just had a vacation. And you just had a break from recording. I don't know how much of an actual break from recording we're going to take. We'll talk about that off. Um, we're going to have a break in the release schedule though. Um, our plan is to be back sometime in December. This airs November 13th.
Laura:Yeah. God. It's all going so fast.
Xhafer:Uh, So yeah, so they're in a couple of weeks and then, um, we'll be back, you know, we have an episode come out on Christmas day, Christmas is a Wednesday this year.
Laura:That's weird. I mean, somebody, somebody's going to need that to listen to in the bathroom while they avoid their family. Right?
Xhafer:Oh, you know what we will do? we'll, we'll aim for the 11th, December 11th because then we'll do the two miniseries episodes and, and then that will make 33, which is the first episode of the normal show, and Ben will be guesting with us that episode.
Laura:Oh, yay. You've already lined up guests.
Xhafer:Christmas. And to be perfectly honest, 33 is like the best episode of the show.
Laura:Okay.
Xhafer:it's so fucking good. I have not seen Battlestar Galactica since it originally aired. And I still think that that is like just thinking back on it. That's the best episode of the show.
Laura:Wow. It peaks early.
Xhafer:It's really good for a long time, actually.
Laura:Okay.
Xhafer:I remember really like an episode that will be a fun. That's our Christmas present is an episode about undying, unyielding stress, that's our gift to everyone on Christmas
Laura:Oh boy. And Ben's lovely voice. Yeah.
Xhafer:Ben's Ben's dulcet tones will graze the pot again on Christmas day, which is extra funny because he's actually Santa in a community theater production of Elf
Laura:Uh, I I feel like he's
Xhafer:and Glow is Mrs. Claus. It's so perfect.
Laura:They're so cute. But dang it,
Xhafer:All right. Well, I guess, I guess that's it.
Laura:I guess this is it. Bye bye. Babylon five.
Xhafer:I babble on five.
Laura:How We Loved You.
Xhafer:Jeremy Siegel, we've played your music for 150 episodes and God willing, we'll play another tune by you for 112 more.
Laura:Yeah,
Xhafer:Thank you so much for composing our theme music. Really appreciate it. You can find more of Jeremy's work at JeremySiegel42. bandcamp. com and on streaming services as Nuclear Jaguar.
Laura:and thank you Angry Deck Time machine on Instagram for our podcast artwork and our new podcast artwork.
Xhafer:It's so good.
Laura:They're both beautiful. We love them very much.
Xhafer:We'll put that out sometime in the break in the discord. I'll leave it up to you. If you want to post it right now, go for it. If you want to post when this episode comes out, go for it. I
Laura:Yeah. Let's, let's give it some time. Okay.
Xhafer:Aaron, again, thank you. I was very just everything I said earlier in this episode. You heard it.
Laura:Yeah. Thanks. I was very touched by your email.
Xhafer:Yeah.
Laura:And thank you, listener, for being here for 150 episodes of Oopsy. Various coverage, mostly Babylon 5.
Xhafer:Yeah, we did it. Discord join the community. Um, see the podcast work art. Artwork early. Um,
Laura:If you join the community and we ever meet someday, you're going to be my best friend automatically. So,
Xhafer:yeah. Get a big old hug.
Laura:you know, you want that, right?
Xhafer:And leave a five star rating uh, wherever you watch podcasts. Um, we are on YouTube. We've been on YouTube for a bit. We have a number of people that only listen on YouTube now.
Laura:Wild. Yeah. Okay.
Xhafer:Yeah. And uh, we'll see you in. A few weeks, listener. I hope that the next time I'm talking to you, I still have hope in my voice.
Laura:Same, big, same. I'm excited. Battlestar Galactica. Here we come.
Xhafer:I wish I could give you a big hug right now.
Laura:Oh, me too. Ooh. I'm just going to hug my monitor.