Ep 157 / Bows, Gators, and Deer: The Ultimate Outdoor Chat

Welcome to the Whitetail Advantage podcast with your host, Brett Bovin. Thank you for tuning in and enjoy the show. How's it going, everyone? What's going on, ladies? Mostly. I appreciate that. No worries. No worries. No intro. We're just gonna run into it. It's episode 157. It's June 10th. It's the America Month, not the other Demon month. That's. That's right. Yeah, it is. I do want to ask a question, though. I got a question for y' all. We're gonna do at least this, though.

All right, that's here. Is water wet? What? Sure. Is water wet? Water. Is water, man. Is water wet? Water. Water can be wet. Water can be frozen. Water can be vaporized. No, no. Is water wet? Yes. Simple question. Yes. By definition, yeah. Okay, Hunter, what do you. What do you say? I'm gonna say, yeah, but I don't know. In fact, it's a question. I'm not sure. I don't know. No, water's not wet. Why not? Because water being. Getting something wet is the act of getting something wet.

Okay, I have one for you now. You ready? What? How many holes does the straw have? One. One. One What? Wouldn't you say two? Because there's one on each end. Well, it starts one end and finishes at the other. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a bit. And we had a discussion about that at my household not too long ago, so. Yeah. Why the would anyone say it's 2? Because people are idiots. How many genders are there the same? People that say more than one are the same. People say a straw has two holes.

There's five. I think there's five genders plus two. That's seven. No, I think we're up to lmnop plus two. Odyssey says water isn't wet. Well, damn, that's. No, I'd. I'd say water's wet because I don't know. Water's water.

Anyways, Hunter, welcome to the Whitetail Advantage podcast, where we try to discuss water and all. Yeah. Elements. Last time being on this show. Yeah, exactly right. Goddamn science lessons here. Yes. That's Alabama education. There's no problem with that, I promise. Well, you. You have three Michigan guys on tonight. Usually the New Yorker would be like the. Oh, yeah. Where is. Where is tur herder at? Oh, turd Turd Ferguson. He's out in the woods watching it up baby Yeti.

I gave him the night off. Yeah. Even though I'm. I'm not, like, the boss or anything around here, but I gave him the night off. Figured he deserved it with his old age. Yeah, Yeah, I figured he deserved. He's all super old. Yeah, well, he's only, what, 52? I don't know how old he is. 54, maybe. I thought he was 56. I thought I was. I. I know I'm older, but I thought it was more than, like, a couple years. Either way, he still looks ugly. Hunter, tell us a little about yourself, man.

Oh, are you good? Oh, I'm from south. Deep south Alabama. Citronelle got a sporting goods store called River Legend Outfitters. Started it probably four years ago now, and it's took off and done pretty well for us. Good hunt. Hunt here. Hunt. Central Illinois. Big. Big into alligator hunting. That's just a lottery system down here. It ain't like swamp people. That's cheating. We can't bait or nothing like that. So it's treble hooks and archery only. So that's. That's my. My end.

I'd give up every other hunt if I was guaranteed personal tags. I just put it like that. But I would really rev. I'd rather not deer hunt, but I'm good at it, so I just keep doing it. Archery hunt and alligator. I would love to do that. Dude, that's, like, one of my. But I want to do a Nile croc with a bow. This is the first year that they've opened for out of staters, so I'll send. Really? I'll send y' all a link and put in. You get full. Just come get in the boat.

Oh, dude, you got it, brother. I will be there, dude. I would love to. Wait. You couldn't do it before. Out of stairs. Couldn't do it before. Say it one more time. Out of staters couldn't. Couldn't come down there to hunt alligator. You. You could come hunt, but you could not have a tag in your own name. You could not have a personal tag. So you'd have to go with, like, an outfitter or something. Okay, well, I mean, there is no, like, outfitters that actually do.

I mean, there's a few people that charge, but you got a select handful of groups down here that just used to. I didn't have, you know, a decent job with good money. I'd ask for fuel money just to take people, but other than that, we just have people come get in the. Boat and go take a second. I'm so. I'm so freaking doing that. I'll send it to y' all. We get done. We used to go down to Gainesville Florida for the national ASA shoots every year in February.

And that was one of the thing me and my two buddies, when we went, we tried to go, but nobody down there would take us alligator. But down there it was like a nuisance then. Like you could just get like a, a stamp and a tag or something like that and you could just go hog wild. Yes. So the, the last year I've been in central Florida, pretty close to the St. John's River. I built seven and a half miles of high fence for them boys and I got, got an outfitter started for them.

They're called Double Barbie Outfitters. Jam Up Osceola Turkey hunting. And then they did have, they had exotics and whitetail and all kind of help him get that program going. But that's what we would do as far as building. We had to get the right permits for alligators and all. And then the nuisance hunters that would go and trap those gators, they don't make a lot of money on the state.

But we would pay those nuisance hunters to actually come stock gators just so you'd have them on that property. There's a 4,500acre property that way you got them. Somebody had a secondary hunt. You tag out the first babe on a three day hunt. I can camp a gator hunt to you or something like that. Now can you archery hunt them in, in Florida? Yes sir. Okay. Yeah, bow fishing is legal, but yeah. I feel like Alabama's closer. Alabama.

So that they've been very, very strict on their laws and rules and everything. This they just give us about 50 more miles of river. If there's a world record kill, it'll be this year. Next if there's a new one killed. They opened up about 50 more miles of the Tom Bigbee River. Be the first time it's ever been hunted. Now open to out of staters. They give us a third weekend instead of only two weekends to hunt. I mean it's, it's going to be lights out.

Wow. Probably run into a lot of bull sharks up there too. I imagine you got to get way, way south. Now you get around. Yes, you, you get in that brackish water lower end of the delta, they'll catch them a little bit. I have seen them as far up as Macintosh on like trot lines. Not personally, but some of them older gentlemen will catch them on trot lines and stuff like that. But it's, it's not as much as. You think attempting crazy like. I mean we hunt up here and we fish up here. But to.

To have like alligators and bull sharks in the water, that's just. That's just fun right there to me. It sounds like it. Anyways, dude, alligator hunting with a bow is just. Is just ridiculously sick. I. So you're hunting. You're hunting dinosaurs with a bow. A freaking skull and a Euro mount alligator would just be bad ass, you. Know, with an arrow through it.

That and then so you both fishing just kind of get a point on and then you take your deep sea rod or whatever with your treble hooks and get any. And then it's about an hour fight to actually get him up because you have to kill him with a shotgun or a bang stick. He's got to be secured to your boat. They do have to keep you from shooting them in open water. It's like deep sea fishing, but if you fall in, you die. It's a great twist. Yeah, pretty much. Right?

Yeah. If that's not motivation enough to date. So you got a rope tied to your ass so you don't fall in. Who I had a guest on from Alabama last year and I'm trying to remember his name. I'm drawing a blank, but he sent me a picture. I think he runs an outfit down there as well. And he sent me the picture after the fact of this giant alligator that was taken and the thing was freaking humongous and I'm trying to remember his name. Drawing a blank right now. The. The world records from down here.

15, 9, 10, 11 pounds off Alabama river, almost 16ft. Yep. Ms. Mandy Stokes. Actually the. So the podcast I do with our guy that runs native sent Zach knew we interviewed her, hadn't released it yet because I mean we've got 12, 15 episodes that we don't know how to edit. Nothing like that. But if I can ever get it figured out, that's gonna be a jam up show. Do you know Morgan Gwynn? He's from Arkansas. He runs I believe it's CS C U. S outfit or something like that in Arkansas.

And that's where he took the giant monster alligator that he's taught that he was. I'm talking about his buck there was just humongous out of Arkansas. So I guess what I'm trying to get with this is I feel like Florida kind of made hunting alligators a little more popularized because it just seemed like you have a lot more room, wiggle room, whatever you want to call it to hunt down there. And. And Arkansas, Alabama seems a little. Be a little more strict.

And it sounds like this year they're finally opening it up. If someone was to come. Now take your. Let's be biased towards Alabama, but if you could say if you want to go hunt on some alligators and you want to make sure that you get close to like a giant world record type alligator, where would you send them? Southwest, Southwest or west central zones. So that put the. The west central is a Miller's Ferry region, Dallas County, Wilcox counties on the Alabama river.

And then it runs almost to Montgomery. And then this is the first year I was talking about. The new zone that they've opened is toward Demopolis and the west side of Alabama on the upper part of the Tom Bigby. And man, it's. It's never been hunted, not legally at least. So they're there. You mentioned though that you would much rather be hunting alligators than whitetails. Man, I'm burned out. I've tagged year after year after year. I. I don't know why.

It's something from being a kid going dog hunting with my dad and I missed several, several good bucks and I've never let myself live that. Live that down. So I'm still. Those deer from 15 years ago. Deer now are paying for that out of just spike. I'm still killing. I just. I can't get over it. So still hunt. Did you guys have any problems with ehd because we. We had it on bad last year for us. Yeah, we got hit hard here. That's just initials down here because we don't even know what that means.

I mean. I know what I mean. By himself. I mean we really hadn't run into that. I think they've tried to throw two CWD cases around on some part of the state. But as far, the only disease we got down here is outlaw part of. So that's it. What's that disease called? No, Luke. Some weird name. And it was. There was a case last year, the year before where it transferred from whitetail deer to two hunters down there drawing a blank of what the name was. You're not talking about that lung one?

I could be. I can't. I'm drawing a blank. We had it here too. This was like the first one in a long time. And it was. It happened down in like Alabama, Arkansas type region. And I can't remember what the name was, anything. Was that tuberculosis that. It was. That was bovine. Yeah. Yeah, that one, I think. Yep. It was the first case that transferred from whitetail deer to humans. Well, they. I think that they figured they ate it when it wasn't fully Cooked. Yeah. I don't know.

But that's how I eat my meat anyways. You know, if it ain't bleeding, it ain't. It ain't done. Yeah, we're all telling it. We all know how you like your meat there, Dave. That's right. On the road, on the stick. We had three. That the outfitter in Florida. I just got back. I've been back in Alabama full time since January. But we had three die blue tongue in Florida last year. Oh, the blue tongue, really? Yes, sir. Wow. Yeah, that's basically what the blue tongue is up here.

We had like hundreds just die of it within like a square mile. And it was just bad. We got hit hard. And I know I have a buddy up the road basically right near Johnny where Johnny hunts. And he saw like 60 to 100 deer within a square mile just dead. It.

It was terrible. It killed. And we had the problem of EHD back in like 2010-2012 range. And then we were finally recovering from it in our opinion of, yeah, great. And then bam. It hit 10 times harder than it did back then. Like it got so bad that you can smell dead deer miles away. Yeah, it was atrocious. And now you got deer this year. It was abnormally hot and dry too, which was part of the problem. Yep. Yeah, we had we for Michigan winter up here.

You'd think, oh, it's Michigan winter's up there. They must suck ass. And it's really cold. And like that last couple years it's been fairly warm. I think this year is the only real we've had in a while where I could. We had a lot of snow that stuck. And I'm surprised you don't really hear more of that down. Down south. And man, they. They could be dying of it more. But it's so thick down here compared to where y' all are at. The woods are thick everywhere we got.

You know, I hunt pipes down Illinois too, so I kind of know about the terrain there. You don't have just all kind of fields you can drive by and see deer dead. If there is a disease, unless someone kills one sick, you don't know about it. I mean, coyote is your thick. Woods are thick. It's just. It's a total different ballgame. I want to ask you about your. Your business that you run. How did that come about it? What exactly do you do with it and how is it managing?

Because that type of job must be very taxing on yourself. And I know you're a family man, you're A Christian man. So I know that must take a lot on. On you personally and your family. So what's that just do? Let's just start off somewhere, just throw a dart somewhere and let's see how it goes. Yeah. Meeting people at midnight for a bag of corn, where I make a dollar has really been. Been hitting me by. But hey, you gotta, you gotta build a customer base somehow.

That's really how I started to just always loving hunting coming up. I mean, I tried at one point in time to buy another sporting goods store that was in town down here. Didn't work out. Start my own. Be the best route to go. And it kind of got it going, took off. Well, I'm still working at a steel mill at the time. And then it's funny it being June, they put up a big gay pride flag that we had to drive under to go to work in the mill. And really I just, I'm not. That just don't work for me.

I took that son of a gun down. Well, I was gonna say. If I'm. If I'm working, being productive for you to fly that son of a gun. I'm enabling you to fly and I ain't gonna do it. So I took it down. They fired me. But man, that was the biggest blessing of it all because it drove so much business to that store. It was just awesome. So got my name out there and then just pretty much been growing from there. Kind of got to a point, stuff was getting a little tight, expanding the business.

And then I had that opportunity in Florida come up to build some fence down there, get another actual outfitter starter for them guys. So took a year off, went down there and now I'm back. So I'm selling, selling boats now. Run an outfitter now. My dad actually manages the store whenever I do the purchasing and stuff like that. And then also doing my stuff in Illinois. So we're wide open. That's cool, man. That's awesome.

What exactly are you doing with the out there's like, if someone wants to come there, what are they, what are they gonna get? What are they looking for? What are your services you're offering? Yeah, so I've got. Actually got a lot of boys from central Illinois that are coming with me. I got all them putting information tags too. But as far as Illinois, I'm doing just three day, three night simple stuff. I mean it ain't nothing extravagant. I'm in pike county right there near Pittsburgh.

Well, you're in a good call. It ain't cheap to get Ground. I do know that. No, it's not. Yeah, you gonna pay if you're gonna play. I've done figured that ball game out. But we. We tried public up there. Not as an outfitter, but we tried public last year about an hour and a half north of Pittsfield. A man seen some jam up deer. Just a lot, a lot of pressure on them pieces up there. Oh, yeah, yeah. But no, as far as actually selling hunts and stuff, I don't do. I don't have a website or nothing.

I've always done just Facebook. Business or personal references. No, you know, they said no Whitetail Heaven outfitters or nothing. Where I've got 10, 000 clients through the years to act. That's not. I don't believe in putting pressure on deer like that. If you're gonna hunt, be successful, you got to keep pressure out, keep clients low. Yep. How often? What is your price ranges? 1500 bucks. Oh, man, that sounds great. I keep my lights on at home and I like seeing people kill deer.

I'm not trying to get rich, man. I'm trying to kill junk. I love it. And you got people out there that. Honestly, I have my feelings about outfitters. Because you get at least the ones that are out there charging like 10 grand a night. No. And I'm just like, you're killing hunting, in my opinion, in that regard. Because you can't. You're taking up so much land, at least, what was it, Dave Cabela's at the time, now Bass Pro owns it.

But they bought up a ton of property up in pike county and they just take up these huge areas and they have it privatized. And now you can't. There's less places for people to go public land hunt. Granted, there's still a lot of land out there. I get that. But I'm just saying, I don't know. They're playing to where the money's at. Yeah. Because then they know. Because they know. Because people will pay 20 bucks or 20 grand for a 180, 200 inch deer. Absolutely. Yes, they will.

I mean, look what they, you know, at Legends, you know. Oh yeah. Up north of me by my. Our cottage. You know, you're gonna pay that for a buck. You're gonna pay 15, 20 grand for a world class buck. But it's nice to see where you are doing it to where you're also trying to put meat on food on your table through the business side of it all. But you're all. You're mainly trying to help people shoot deer. And I think that's really awesome to see in here.

Yeah. Because like I said, you have these bigger outfitter type places out there, and it's just like they own thousands and thousands of acres and they'll charge X amount, huge dollars just to come counter. And I think that's, man, yeah. And that, that's my biggest thing, man, as far. And I'm still trying to grow, you know, grow the name, grow the brand, but you can't see people as a dollar sign. Got to be all things to all people.

I mean, if you will actually connect with somebody, have a memorable hunt, be personable with them, you don't see them as customer 5865. You remember their name. Remember? Man, I, I put him in a stand. He didn't like last year. I'm gonna do something different. That's what matters. They remember that and they come back, damn now. So is that a three day, seven day hunt? What do you. Three day, three night. Oh, yeah. That's pretty good. Yeah, it is.

I mean, that's driving distance from, for, from here. Now, see, y' all meet me this year. I'll be, we'll just go hunt. I, I'm. I literally, I use it as an excuse for me to go like, you know what? I paid her land note with this hunter. Does your wife fall for that? She has no choice. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, she has no choice.

I, I tell us all the time, I told my wife on our very first date, this was what you're gonna get when you, if you want to continue dating me or move forward past the first date. I watch college football on Saturdays in the fall and Sunday through Friday, I'm out in the tree stand. So you're not going to see me October through December? Yes. All right. I can get on board with that.

So luckily, she was used to it with her dad and her brother and kind of, she kind of grew up in that family type lifestyle of outdoors and hunting and fishing. So she already kind of knew that, but I told him, like, no, no, I'm. I'm different. I'm different. She goes, all right. And I got lucky because I married into it. Like her, her. Her dad was a big into hunting. I'm sorry, I didn't have to try to make up the excuse to go hunting. It was. You said her, you met him, right?

My wife is a female. She identifies as. Okay. He was born a female and she's still one. She's female. She just identifies as single now. Yeah, she might. She ain't home yet from her mom, so who knows? Yeah. Once they're apart, she identifies as single. Yeah. Nah, I'm just messing with you. Yeah, but she was talking about, you know, them being able to. Her being able to handle me going as much around high school. I'm 26 now. Sub 10 probably 10 years ago, I killed 3 bucks.

Just boom, boom, boom, open a wheat. And I had one buddy, and this one friend has been the reason many deers died. He said, man, you'll never have a better year than this and that. Eat me alive. I said, you're wrong about that. Every year I've had a better year. Better. Finally, I've let it go. I literally, I called him a couple months ago. I said, bro, I'm burned out. I said, I proved a point. We're good. Like, don't, don't worry about it no more.

Let me ask you this, hunter, Then what are you doing down there to be successful to put some whitetail deer? It sounds like you're doing something great because you got to the point where it's just like cupcake, basically, you're gonna feed. You're gonna feed, Feed, low pressure. I have nothing wrong. Deer dog hunting is real big in south Alabama.

People, people still use their dogs. And you can kill really good deer with deer dogs, but you cannot raise deer with deer dogs. It's the biggest thing. They're shooting anything with fork and horns. But also the deer that is fully nocturnal. You think they can still get him up running and killing if he don't slip your dogs. But I'll go on two or three drives a year and try to get lucky. But I've killed a few decent deer. No giant dog hunting.

But take those areas with pressure like that and just use that to your advantage. Let them put all the pressure. You feed heavy, make a sanctuary of your own, and you run that son of a gun. There's a comment here from Daniel. I like this southern draw. I mean, don't get wrong. You're not the only one. No, I, I, I hear more and more dog hunting with deer hunting with dogs. But it seems like it's more of a southeast type deal. Yeah. Because you don't really hear that up here in Michigan.

No, up here in Michigan, I remember growing up, and you'd have a dog that would chase deer, and then the neighbor or someone would shoot that dog because they're like, nope, Once they start chasing deer, they can't, like, we can't have them around. So I know a lot of people that had their dogs killed or they would shoot them for that. I've never agreed with that at all. But you can shoot the owners. Exactly. I mean you can clearly tell that's a dog. I mean the fact that you have to like.

I don't know, but yeah, like I, it just seems like a more of a southern thing. Wrong hunter. No, you're right. I know the Carolinas are real big in it. Carolinas and Georgia and then I think pretty much us and Mississippi is about all that's left. Florida's real big on it. When I was down there with them boys, they hunt all that big Ocala National Forest, but man, they're heavy. Heavy. Deer dog hunter Daniel asked, what kind of dogs would you use?

Walkers and beagles are the biggest thing you see down here. Kind of like the same type of dogs you use for mountain lion hunting or rabbit hunting. Yeah, eagles are good for about anything. Beagles, a bad joker. They're the Rambo of dogs. Absolutely. I'm little short legged jokers are so funny to me. But they'll burn something up. Yes, they will. They can get into any crack and hole that no other dog can get in. Ain't no doubt. And it's weird. It's a beagle.

I mean don't get me wrong, I love, I love all dogs. But you have a beagle. My favorite dog's the German shepherd. So I don't know, like, wouldn't you want the like scary looking going out there and chasing these things down? But these beagles are just out there just killing it. Dude, those beetles, they're amazing. We had them growing up. I love them. Hunting dogs. Yeah. Here's your rule. If it's got floppy ears, you can about training to make a deer dog. Oh, absolutely. So my dog.

Oh, go ahead, hunter. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I know we're big on you talking about rabbit hunt. We do that. After deer season ends, we'll rabbit hunt. We got about a month and a half. We got a bunch of boys with beagles and then competition coon hunt's real big down here too. I used to. Used to competition coon hunt. Heavy. Yeah, they do it up here by me too. Yeah. And we do pro hunts up here too, quite a bit. Well, I know we have a little store. It's actually called the little store.

They used to do a pro contest. So every year you go out and shoot a pro and the biggest pro wins. And there's usually a pot. That's pretty cool. Brett's all carted Up. That's all right. We don't like him anyways. Yeah, it's awfully quiet now. Yeah. So like. So then you. You limit your hunts, which I think is really smart because like you said, you're not pressuring the herd really bad. So what do you typically in a year for? How many hunters do you usually bring in in a year?

So I. I do put mine first. I try to kill my deer. Well, I would too. I'm just. I would too picky on that. And then as far as that. And I'll tell you what's fun to me too, is tag teaming deer. Like, you sit there, get on feed or something like that, and then you mow. A deer's using a trail. You know, there's a good crossing. I'll put somebody on that feed, I'll go sit there crossing. Or vice versa. Just something like that. Long as I put them in a better wind situation. I mean, as far as Alabama.

I don't really sell hunts in Alabama. I just. I take buddies and like going. And we. It. It worked our advantage this year. We picked up a new leafs and we killed. Oh, really? Oh, nice. Hold on. Dave, handle it. I got to step out real quick. Yeah. Oh, geez. You want to dial up still? I paid for this. A hundred dollars a month for this. The best Internet fiber optic stuff. And yet from time to time, my Internet just like randomly goes, no, you. You're gone. And I can't stand it.

So I apologize for that. Now you're good. I don't know where we missed out, though. So nothing special. There was a. I had to find it. Dave, I don't know if you can see it, but there was a question from Dan. Oh, yeah, he said he was. No, you guys don't use any blue ticks. And they. And Dan used to run blue tox and black and tans with his grandpa when they used to hunt. Yeah. Yeah. They hunt with them down here. The majority. What you see is walker and big. And now they definitely.

They definitely use them. Yeah, it's just. There's just. Majority of them are walkers that you see. Okay. My dad had a Kerr and red bone cross. Oh, wow. Like, he was lights out. Wow, man. I think the closest thing I had to that was a blue healer. All right. The Internet's still with me. I'm getting tired of this. You look like you're. I know. It's like I'm glitching. I'm getting tired of this thing, man. You need a WI FI booster on it. You probably get just a bad signal.

It's not great WI fi, that's the problem. And it's pissing me off. And I nobody say anything but I guarantee you my wife's got like five things running up on WI fi right now upstairs. That's probably the reason why. And I told her like I just need it for Monday for Sunday and Tuesdays. Don't with my Internet. Yeah, I bet all the kids are on tablets and phones and just. Yep, that was probably pissing me off even more. The Xbox is gaming up. Hunter, what's your archery setup though?

I want to know that or what type of are you more Primarily archery hunting, Gun hunting. I mean rifle hunting. Majority of it. I'll say majority. It's a mixed bag, man. Majority of it's going to be rifle hunting down here. Just especially shooting long patches, road, stuff like that. But I was on Matthews. I had a V3 that was set up pretty clean. I swapping the. I'm swapping the psc. I'm actually a dealer for them at my store. And then I forgot what exact bow it was.

But that is the best let off that I have ever felt on a boat compared to that. Matthews's day and night. So I'm switching to. I'm gonna get me a PSC rig this year. So you're gonna get the Mach 30 or 33. I got my brother with the EC2 cam. I rigged him a Mach 30 and then I've got the one I ended up keeping. I keep. I can't remember the name of it was. It's a knock on edition where they got the knock on cams and everything. Oh yeah, Levitate man. Don't make me lie.

I'll send it to you, but don't make me lie. Well, don't send me your bow. No, I'll just. I'll tell you what I got. See. Yeah, compare. Yeah, I. I picked up the Omen last year. So that's what it is. Yep. The Omen was. You got the E2 cam? Yes sir. Yep. That's the one I got. Yep, that's it. It's. It's like that dog on like net gear riser with green limbs. It's. It's sharp. Yeah. Yep. I went to. When did I go there? It was. I went to the PSC archery school that was taught.

That was taught by that Olympic archery coach. I can't remember his name right now, but it was three to five day schooling. They went down there and you got like certificates and they. He taught you how to do with the bow and correct form and how to press the bow and just basically being a tuner and a technician on the bow. And he taught you a lot. And he said that PSC actually came out and actually I actually met the owner of pse. What's his name? Yep. I met Pete. He's. He's an awesome dude.

Yeah. And he said that the bows that we were working on, he said that PSE was the first one to do something with their cams, that everyone else started copying them and I can't remember exactly what the it was. Is it the. Well, they changed the grooving on their cams. They got deeper grooves on the cam so the strings. It could be that. But I know that they had like, like little holes throughout the cam so you could manipulate the draw length. I think it was.

Oh yeah, the can without having to use a module. It's. Yeah, that's what it was. Without having to adjust or replace modules. Yeah, they were the first one to do. And then everyone else started copying them. Yeah. So no, I think PSC is great. Actually. My first bow was a Martin Jaguar. It was actually growing up, it was a PSC something. And then my first hunting bow was a Martin Jaguar. Yeah, PSC has always been the freaking. The bomb. I mean, look at John Dudley. He was shooting for.

I think it was Hoyt. And then he switched over to the mock series. The mock carbons came out. He jumped on just like everybody else. And them carbons are light. Light, Light, Yeah. They're the only carbon mos made in the us. Everybody else is out of the country. See, I don't like light bozo. I like bows with a little bit of mass to them. You're good on that. That V3 had a. Had a little weight to it, which, I mean, I love a solid cheap bow. I just.

It was the let off for me that they really swapped me over on that. And I ain't no bo tech or McCann. I sub all my junk out. As far as a product, man, I'd rather pay you a little bit more money. Hand me something. I know it work every time I touch it. So as far as getting into the technicalities, I'd be lying if I told you because I'm out on that. Well, I just like my phase four.

That thing's heavy, but I also have a 12 inch bar in the front and I got a 10 inch bar in the back and it's pretty heavy. But I like a little bit of heaviness to my bow because I look at it like this. If you have a light bow and let's just say you're shooting out to 40, 50 yards. Let's just say 50 yards and then you got that light bow. And if you're not really practicing archery proficient, you're going to be constantly moving.

And let's just say your heart rate's just at a bear, just regular, you're still naturally going to be moving, but then with at least with that heartbeat, I mean with that heavy bow, you're just gonna be kind of sitting there. Yeah, you just can't hold a light bulb. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like though. And let's say you put into a real scenario where your heart is beating out of your chest and you can't control it. So you naturally on that light bow. Oh, I can't hold it still. Everyone's.

Yeah, everyone's got their preference though. That's just mine personally and that's just how I look at things. And that's what we like to do here is everyone's got their own perspectives on it and see what, listen to what I say, listen what Dave says, Hunter says and try each one out and see what works best for you. For me personally, I like that little bit more of a mass to it.

But now it seems like with, with Matthews coming out with their the lift and now the lift X, it's just light and fast. Light and fast, yep. I still think I like the longer axle to axles. I think they're more forgiving. I think that's what needs to be paid on more attention to the most because you have that sharp V, that back wall, it's like where it's at like that V shaped compared to that nice smooth U shaped.

I think that needs to be focused on the most because when I was practicing with the lift, the lift when I was drawing back, you as soon as you get close to that back wall, you can really feel it sink in. And you like, you had to give it that little extra pull just to sink it in. Now when I practiced the phase four, it was just an easy, just smooth drawback right there. And see that's what like the E2 cam, that's like their aggressive like fast cam.

Yeah. And if you just look at it, you're just like, man, this thing's gonna draw like a freaking tank. It's just gonna vape bad. And I saw it from when I first saw it and I'm like 360ft per second. Oh, that's gonna suck like the old X Force and the monster. When the Matthews had the monster. Drawing them things back, man. Oh, my God. I mean, they ramped up right now. I mean, there was no smooth and then hard. Hard. It was hard. And then a big giant drop. Well, valley.

Yeah. That E2 cam is smooth as hell. I wish, man. I like that cam a lot. And you, you, have you shot yours with the E2 yet? Because I hadn't even rigged it. Oh, it's. It's a bare bow right now. What, what, what, what? Rest and all you go with on your. I. I have been a trophy taker guy for like my entire life. I've just. I love trophy taker. Never had a problem. I went with the smackdown pro. I actually shot trophy taker when I shot competitive archery.

And then I switched to the lizard tongue because all the pros are shooting lizard tongues. But I. I just love the. The smackdown pro is what I have. And then I run the. I've been a CVE guy forever since the. The original couple had CBE and before they sold out. Basically retired. And I got the 2V Pro. So it's a micro adjustable. I give a one pin, but you can do a two pin vertical. Mine's horizontal, but I like that. Yep. Yeah, you'll like that. Bo. You'll be shocked how.

How accurate and forgiving it is for only having five and a half inches of brace. I. I shot my brother's Mach 30 and it's because it's unreal. So that's. I'm fired up for it. Michael, I see your messages. I'm not just gonna interrupt these guys and just say, hang on, guys. Michael's saying, what's up? He's saying hello. Oh, my God. Just. You know what? Next time he says hello, I'm just going to interrupt. Everyone say, ho. Hi, Michael. Michael says hello. He made it on here. Here, we'll do this.

There you go. You've got a pin. Now on the show, Michael. Wow. He's a minor cousin. He's a young kid from New York too. Just so you know. Gosh, that's just so inappropriate. But he's a young kid that's really into hunting and he kind of looks. Up to us like we're his heroes. I mean, I don't know. Yeah. I don't know if we're heroes or anything, but, I mean, we're probably not the guys you should be role modeling after. But he's a good kid. Yeah. And we kind of look out for him.

Good. Yep. He's a good kid. Even though He. Every time he asks, I'm waiting for him to ask you if you've had possum yet. No, that's out. He can't ask that question. Them say, there's a. I had an NDA to sign before I got on this show. But no, that. That's. That's out. There's way too many other things you can eat. To me now. I know some m. Jokers that will eat that mess. I'm out. No, I'm not. I just have no desire to try it. I know what a back strap tastes like. It ain't worth it. That's.

See, that's what I'm. Yeah. Why go downhill when you can stay uphill? Right. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Right. Yeah, I don't feel like eating. Yeah, I wouldn't. I'm not against eating ass, but I'm not gonna eat food ass. There's a difference that I've heard several farmers talk about finding cows and stuff dead in pastures and going and checking them and they'll kick the belly of that cow. And you wouldn't believe how many times everyone say a possible run out of that. Run out of it.

That is so messed up. That is a nasty individual. That's it. That's why I don't eat somebody. That's. And it's. Yeah, no, yeah. It's a scavenger. It's like eating a vulture. That I say that is the buzzard on legs. Yeah, exactly. You know, you're eating a buzzard. Like why would you want to do that when there's so other tasty animals out there? So you mentioned you have a family and you got kids too, I take it? Yes, sir. I got two little boys. Little baby boys. I think they're one and two.

One and a half, two and a half. I don't know. They're out to get me. They're. They're wide open. I love it, man. Yeah, I got a four and a two year old and man, they are just rambunctious and crazy and they. They can move and if I could just take 1% of their energy and apply it to my own self, I would love it. That's what I was going to say because this. If I could have a quarter of it for, I could get so much more done. But it's a blessing, man. It's a headache, but it is a blessing.

It is a blessing. Yeah. Especially if they're healthy. It's a blessing. Yes. As long as much as. Because I look at it like this with kids. I always wanted kids growing up. I mean, when I got older and I started getting a little bit older in my life and career and stuff like that. Like, I can't wait to have kids. Now I have kids, they're young and I get stressed. Fairly easy to an extent. And they stress me out by far, quick as shit. And now.

But I'm at a point now with my daughter, at least at four years old, she always wants me to pick her up, and I'm always willing to pick her up. But I feel like now I'm at a point where it's like, no, you need to kind of like, detach type deal. It's hard to play that type of game of like, I want to pick you up, but you also need to start learning to do things more on your own type deal. And I just. They had. She has me so much wrapped around her finger, it's not even funny. And I had a point.

I was going to go with that, but I can't remember exactly what it was because they can just stress you out so freaking easy. But I look at it like the moment I like, say no or I don't want to or anything like that. I look at it like 20 years down the road where she's not going to want to text me anymore or, like, talk to me. I'm like, I want to miss out on that time where she's like, daddy, can you pick me up? I think about that moment when. In the future of that moment. Yeah. And it gets me.

That won't happen. No. You know what I'm saying? Trying to say, though, like, I know what you're saying. Yeah. I mean, hell, I can't get my kids out of my house. I was that way. I was saving money, racking up. I can't give my one hard time. He just got done out of the Marines and he signed up for college, so. Oh, thanks. Yeah. But my other one just. He just graduated high school and he works with me now, so they're going to be getting a place together soon. Good deal.

Yeah. Hunter, I got one question for. I want to ask you at least a couple state words, man. I swear to God, it's. It's hard. I understand. I don't know. Michigan education, Alabama are probably similar. We might be a step behind you. Yeah, we might be a step behind you. Do you have.

How do you plan on introducing your kids? Kind of like the outdoors and hunting and trying not to force it on them as they get older because you don't want to be that parent. It's like you're going to hunting and you're going to like it type deal. You want to let it grow organically. Right, Right. How do you plan on doing that? So I took river, I mean I've already took river with me and sat knowing good and well we would see nothing. Just loud talking.

I. You can't do it with an expectation to kill anything or see anything. You have to do it just because it was passed to you. You pass it to them, take them, let them look, shout, see whatever. We ended up killing a deer first time ever too. I was absolutely shocked. We killed a big doe. I mean it was just. Oh, oh, there's. Anyway, that's the biggest thing it down here. I mean I. Not to be corning up but it, it should be in their blood cuz they're already pointing at mounts.

Deer, deer, deer, fake guns, shooting all. I mean it's, you know, we, we race killers. Yep. I did the same thing. They went with me. There was no expectation, just like you said. Because I knew the amount of ADHD that was about to kick in after about five minutes.

The second year I took my, my second oldest, we killed it, we killed the doe too. But he tried to shoot it with his BB gun before I shot it with my gun. But I, I let them bring little red riders with them. You know, whatever. You know, we sit up in the box blind and like you said, now it's like they're hooked. You know, it was like when can I go? When can I get.

I want camouflage, you know, two or three year old running around with grunt calls and camo and stuff, you know, throwing antlers around the house. That's the biggest thing I think. Just make it natural for them. Give them grunt calls to play with. Let them see you with deer. See you with turkeys. Yep. I mean if it comes naturally. Comes naturally. If it don't, I'm not gonna force. I mean they won't live with me, but I ain't gonna force it home. Yeah. But yeah, yeah.

Hunter, one last question before we wrap it up with a rapid fire segment. What would be ham. Michael's got a question. Brett, just curious. Did the package get sent out or. No, not yet. No, not yet, Michael. I'm still working on that. There's a reason why. Yeah. What he's referring to is his birthday present for myself and the team. So happy birthday. It's a present that we're working on for you. So give us a little time with that Michael, don't worry. I'm also not a millionaire. So I'm also.

I'll say this funny story real quick though, before I ask the last question. So I bought like a 400 water park slide thing for my kids and we got done playing outside. We come back in the house and we. I turn on these YouTube videos that they like to watch, and this guy has this like giant one that you would like, rent out for like X amount of dollars to like. But to buy one, it's like 20 to 40 grand. And she goes, daddy, buy that one. That one looks bigger and a lot more fun.

I'm like, Sweetheart, that's like $20,000. I don't have that type of money. If I have that. If I need to get that type of money, I need to go work the corner. Yeah, I gotta sell mom's Prius. Yeah, yeah. It gets better. She goes without a hesitation. She goes, well, daddy, go work the corner then. And then I just look at her and I start laughing. She goes, daddy, go work the corner. Get there. Now she's four years old and she's saying that to me.

Oh, my God. Not knowing what the true intentions of working the corner really mean. Right? Exactly. She's going to burn you on it when she turns probably 16. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Now the last question for anyone that wants to come to. To Alabama to hunt, what would be one thing that they should really like, like pay attention to or it's like studying and repairing stuff like that.

Die diverse terrain down here, say down south where I met, especially if they were hunting, like if they were on a public mission or public trip or something like that. You got the Delta down here. That's huge. Only issue with the Delta, it floods out heavy, especially during the best part of deer season. Half everything's underwater. Now if you can find a ridge, 40 acres is the legal amount of land that you have to be on to hunt. Oh, if you can find a ridge, you can kill a boat.

But you're going to work for him down south. Now get towards central Alabama. North Alabama is a lot of hill. A lot more hills in Alabama than people realize. It's not super flat down here, man. It's really okay. So, yeah, some pretty, pretty tough canyons and stuff up here. At least for a fat man. I. I have had my best luck hunting, which I didn't really always hunt. Called it hunting parallel wind, but cross winds is what my buddy ended up telling me.

But I've had a lot, a lot of luck hunting crosswinds down Here public. You can't feed down here. A lot of pressure. Just be ready to out walk the next man because you're going to get deep. Michael Perry would be a great one for y' all to get on the show. He killed the state record muzzleloader buck down here, man. Him become friends through the year. Oh, nice. And now he is a public genius. He got a book. He is a public land genius for Alabama.

I have to get in contact information for him to have him come on the show. I'll send you. I'll send you his number. Perfect. That's cool. Before we get to the rapid fire questions, Dave, Michael's got something to say. Here goes. Dave, I heard Brad is spending the money to spend us to spend all of us on a hunting trip anywhere we want to go. It's because of that. It's that corner working money, man. Just banked up a ton of money. Well, if that's the case, we're going to Alabama.

Start that only fans and get you down here. Yeah, Grinder. That grinder account I sell a lot. Of great feet pick too. Don't worry. Well, I told my wife said, you know, you trending high on only fans right now. You need some new Tony Apollish, baby. I'm selling that on my own. Don't wor. Yes. He doesn't know yet. You don't know. Where'd that extra 100 grand come from, honey? Oh, don't you worry about it. I know you had a new truck. Don't worry about corn.

Corn. Corn and rice brand sales are doing really good right now. Sold a few extra hunts. All right, rapid fire segment here. Let me get the questions here. Awesome. What is an animal on your bucket list you want to hunt? Moose. Definite moose. What is an animal you want to. Try eating anywhere in the world? Caribou. A lot of people say caribou. That's one of the top like five. I just feel like that's a lean meat. Imagine that back strap, that long wheel based back strap. That's.

Oh, that's got to be immaculate. Yeah, I heard it's just. Yeah. Unbelievable. What is the top state that you want to try hunting? Don't say Michigan. Okay. No, I've already. I'm in Illinois now. I guess Texas. I've never hunted Texas. Total different breed of deer down there. Something that's definitely on the bucket list. Nice. If you could pick anybody, family or non family member to go on a hunting trip with or share a campfire with one time, who would that person be? Michael Waddell.

Oh, yeah, that's the. That's the American. That's the American. That's the people's champ right there. Yeah. I think you're the first person to actually say Michael Waddell. Yeah. The. The value I watched him, little bitty to now. And just the values that he stands for. The American man, if it's legal. Why. Why are you jealous over another man? How can one man tell another man how he should hunt when it's his God given right? I mean, I. I'm firing him on that.

I mean, he's right, and I'm glad he's been the voice for that. Yeah, I agree. 100 agree with that. Last question here. What do you think we as fellow hunters could or should do to improve the hunting community as a whole? Eliminate the jealousy. That's. That's what's got to happen. You got to learn to be happy for other people, man. Deer don't have names on their dog. On a collar with your name on it just because you took a picture of him. That's a wild animal.

Everybody needs to start, you know, not to be cheesing up, but you got to love everybody, man. Stop being jealous. Be supportive. Somebody out hunts you, they out hunted you. Yep. Move on. Make yourself better. Yeah, Exactly. All right. 100 agree with that. Well, Hunter, thank you so much, man, for coming on the show. We greatly appreciate it. For anyone that wants to reach out to you, follow along your journey. How can they do that, man? Tick Tock is getting big.

We're at 1.3 million likes on Tick Tock. So, guys. Yeah, At River Legend on Tick Tock and then Facebook is River Legend Outfitters. Awesome. Dave, what about you, buddy boy? I'm a PSC mobile hunter. I'm on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube. Just look me up. If not, I don't care. No sleep will be lost either. He's like, I don't give a no. I love it. Well, guys, thank you so much, man, for coming on the show. Guys, I hope you have a great rest of your night. Yeah, you too. Yeah, thanks, Hunter.

Y. Have a good one. Oh, man. Thank you, Hunter, though, again, for coming on the show. Dave, you're basically required to come on the show, at least on Tuesdays. Well, everyone, that's going to conclude an episode of the Whitetail Advantage podcast for myself and I want the team, we want to say thank you so much for tuning in for tonight's show. Thank you. Thank you for gathering around the electronic campfire with us today.

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