#117 Original Pirate Material: From Rooftops to Radio Waves - DJ Dynamix

One, it was much better quality. And two, it was the thing with DTI and Ofcom. It was. They recognize it. It was a cat and mouse game with us. We had a certain sort of unwritten rules between us. They would take us off, we would put them on. We just go round in circles. With the microwave link, they found it much harder to find where the studios were, because if you raid the studios, you're taking the station off for ages. If you.

If you take the transmitter off, all the stations had backup transmitters. You'd go up there, within a couple of hours, you'd be back on air. Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of the White Basement Podcast. Follow the show on Instagram, WhiteBasementPod. Find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Podcasts. And since we've been deleted from YouTube, head over to Rumble. If you want to watch the show, check out our sponsors to support us. And please do share the show. It helps us to grow.

My guest today is Dynamics. And by way of introduction, I will just read the WhatsApp message that the awesome DJ Jolie sent me. Dynamics is a former pirate radio bandit. He used to climb the roofs of London tower blocks putting up transmitters for Shine 87.9 FM so that DJs like myself could host a show to the London masses. Thankfully, now Shine is a legal dab station and a very successful one. He also met and Robinson as he was a contestant on the Weakest Link.

I think you guys will have a very good conversation. So, Dynamics, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. So, yeah, we were just kind of talking a little bit about how you met Jolie. Yeah, so Jolie sent me so many people on set of the show, whenever she messages me, she's like, you know what? I got someone that you should talk to. Yeah. And everyone she sent me has been awesome. So cool. How did you meet her? So now I was doing a station back in 1999 called so Many Stations. Fusion.

Fusion FM, based in Walthamstow. Now, I don't know how she was introduced to me because things back then are a bit of a blur. So I can't remember how we were introduced, but she ended up being on the station that I was running at the time. And, yeah, it kind of went from there, really. She was on there for a little while and that was based in East London, in Walthamstow. And, yeah, and then we, you know, we did. We do the pirate radio thing and so tell me. I'm always kind of curious as to, like.

I love an origin story. Yeah. Spider Man 1's my favorite movie. Hulk 1, my favorite movie. I always like when people go from the mundane to the doing something. So how did you get involved in doing pirate radio? How did that happen? Mainly curiosity. As a, as a kid I like to tinker with electronics, like to tinker with things. I think I remember. I say I remember. I don't remember. My mum's told me the story that I pulled my dad's video recorder to bits and he wasn't best pleased.

I was about seven, I think at the time. How old are you now? 47. Yeah. So videos were expensive, yeah, yeah. VHS, the top load of things, yeah, yeah, yeah. So no, he wasn't best pleased and that's kind of been something that I. Did you get it back together? I don't know, I mean, I mean we were able to watch videos, so I don't know whether he went out and bought a new one or not. So it's possible. I was just told that I took it to pieces and he was not best pleased.

So that's kind of how my brain works. I just like to work out how stuff works. I started working, so with the pirate radio thing. I listened to pirate radio as a 12 year old. 11, 12, 13, 14. Never even dreamed that I'd be able to get onto a radio station because it was one of those. Oh yeah, those people are like there. So I looked into how to make a transmitter, bought a little kit that does a, you know, broadcast for about half a mile, made that, soldered it all together.

Was that like a curry? It was, it was a, it was a mail order thing at the time. I don't, I don't even know where, where I got. I think it was one of those electronics magazines and they sold these little kits and they were matchbox size things. My mum and dad had a loft extension in their house so it was good because it was a bit higher than the average house.

So I ended up putting an aerial on top of their roof, climbing on top of their roof with my little Matchbox transmitter and broadcasting to the local community of about half a mile. Probably no one listened, but it was a bit of fun anyway. Was that like a talking show at the beginning, you just chatting or were you playing? No, well, we had, we had, we had a set of decks and we were playing hardcore and jungle and all that sort of stuff at the time.

And that was about as far as my sort of pirate radio knowledge went until I got to working in Camden palace when I was about 19 and I got introduced to a load of people who were on the radio. And that's where it sort of took off. Once I got involved in being introduced to those people and going on the radio station, my curiosity, my curious mind started thinking, how does this all work? How does the transmitter be over there and the studio over here? So I got into it like that.

And so what happened next? I mean, once you hooked up with those guys? So I did. I did my first radio show. I think I was about 20, so I was actually quite late to the game because most people started when they were 16, 17. Because I didn't know anybody in that industry, I couldn't get into it as much as I'd love to have done. So, yeah, I came into it quite late and did my first radio show on a station called Risk fm, and that was also more from Stowe.

Did a couple of shows on there and then they got raided. So was that like some. In someone's flat or whatever? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know whose flat it was. It was. It was a flat somewhere. I mean, it may have been a squat, I don't know. But. So, yeah, so did a few shows on there, then it got raided and they. They never came back on the air.

And the guy that brought me onto that station then got a show on a much bigger station called Magic FM at the time, and he was on there for about six months. I wasn't doing radio at the time, obviously. I was still working at Camden palace, still meeting the people that were in that industry, all the UK garage guys and house guys and whatever. And then he got me a late night Sunday, 10 till 12, it might have even been 12 till 2. It was a graveyard shift on a Sunday.

And he got me a show on there and I did that for a little while. And then one day, the guys that ran that station, they didn't have a lift to go to where the transmitter was. So he said to me, oh, can you give us a lift up to the tower block? I said, yeah, no worries. What else am I doing? It's the end of the night, I'm going to go home. I took him to the transmitter site and I was like, can I come up there? That was it. That was. It's like a. It's like a buzz.

It's. It's like a. Once it's in your blood, it's in your blood. And like. And. And sort of, because my curiosity as well, I just wanted to know how it worked. And so they have to dismantle it after the Show. Was that why they were going on at that time? It was weekends and evenings, but they. Were taking it down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this was obviously at the end of Sunday night, everything had to come out. So I went up there with them, climbed up. I was just fascinated by it. I was like, how.

Where'd you get all these keys from to get on these roofs? And where'd you get all this stuff from? And where'd you buy these transmitters from? They're not something you can go to Maplins and buy. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. How do you make an aerial? Where do. How does it all work? So that was it. From that minute. I was up on them tower blocks every week. And so initially, the people that were doing it, how did they figure out how it worked?

Would you found someone who's an engineer or whatever and you said, listen, mate, do you want to. Yeah, pirate radio has been around since the 60s. I mean, you got to have some basic. Understand, like, if someone said to me, go and, like, broadcast some radio signal, I'll be like, I think it's just. Handed down information, I think, from. From the old guys from, you know, Radio Caroline going back to. Was that the one that they made the film about? Yeah, well, that's.

That's what started Radio 1. So if it wasn't for them, there would be no Radio One. Yeah, I read Wikipedia about pirate radio. Yeah, I had the little brief. Yeah. Yeah. So. So, I mean, my mum used to, like when I remember when I was younger, she used to go on and on and on about Radio London and Radio Caroline and they all used to tune into it because it's the only place that would play rock and roll music at the time. Yeah. No one else was playing it.

They were playing jazz and blues and wherever else they were playing. Just didn't want to know about rock and roll. Pirate radio has always been an integral part of society because if it wasn't for that, we wouldn't have half the music that we've got today because it wouldn't ever have got an airplay. No, no one would have heard it. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, it's.

I think that sort of pirate radio knowledge and, you know how it works, it's just kind of been handed down through generations of people. And so once you. Once you got up there on that first Sunday evening and. And helped them dismantle, tear it down, whatever. Yeah. I mean, did you then say, listen, I need to know how this works? Or were you just kind of watching and seeing. Okay, pretty Much. I sort of said this, this is brilliant.

I want to do this, I'm coming up here with you every week or whatever. And yeah, it kind of went from there. I got involved with them guys and found out how it worked and, and then, and then. So you were, you were doing that Sunday night shift for, for a bit. And then after that? Well, I mean, that was just my show on a Sunday night. But no, I would go up there every day. I would go up to the tower blocks and put the transmitters on and take them off every day.

And so, I mean, how does it work with like getting keys and getting access and people not ringing the police and saying, oh, there's someone on? Well, they did, they did on loads of occasions. I mean, there's been plenty of times where we've gone up on, up onto a tower block and opened the hatch to come back down again and there's been people down there with weapons waiting for us or police and you just, you can hear them through the thing.

You just be quiet and then they go away or you're lucky or whatever. But yeah, in regards to the keys, like, you could. Money talks. I suppose you could always, always give someone a few quid for a key for a roof council worker or whatever. There's always someone dodgy around that you could. Or, or, or some, or you would know someone that would have like pinched one from a van or something that they saw on the site if the door was open or something like that.

I mean, it's nothing I got involved in. I wasn't nicking stuff out of cars or anything like that. Yeah. But, yeah, you come across people that will sell you keys and. So did you have any real like close calls with being on roofs? Yeah, I mean, I. So yeah, I, unfortunately I got arrested a few times for being on roofs. That was the, that was the lawful side of things.

The unlawful side, like I said, is coming down from hatches in roofs and seeing residents there with weapons, looking, looking to give you a hiding, you know, because. And you've got a bunch of gear with you. So. So in terms of like, if you're putting up a transmitter, how much size of kit and weight of kit are you carrying? So you're, you're not talking about an awful lot on a day to day basis. It was just a transmitter. So what, in a shoebox? Yeah, basically, yeah.

When at the time they were called the dti and I suppose you better know them now as ofcom. They would come and take the aerials down, right. The aerials Were basically what's called a dipole aerial. It's one center section and two bits that are cut to your frequency length mounted on scaffolding poles. Most of the time we used to find scaffolding and take scaffolding up to the tops of the roofs. That was heavy. That was a. Yeah, those poles. Yeah. Especially if the lifts were out.

The lifts were out and you had to walk up 26 flights of stairs with scaffolding poles. That was, that was, that was a mission. Proper workout. A proper workout. So would you, would you do that? Like, is that a one man job or. You know, there was probably two or three of us that would, would do that. But the thing was, once the scaffolding poles were up on your particular block roof, the chances of them being taken down again.

I mean the guys are ofcom and they didn't want to touch the scaffolding poles. They don't want to do that. Yeah. So they just lay them down. So nine times out of ten you'd go back up there and the scaffolding poles were all up there. Right. And you just have to join them back together again, put the thing up and haul the thing back onto the roof. They did on occasion take angle grinders there and just cut them off into bits.

And that's when you would have to go and get some more and take them up there again. Just getting on, getting on roofs and stuff. Sometimes we would, we wouldn't have the keys. They changed the locks, that sort of thing. So there's other ways of getting on roofs, riding on tops of lifts and stuff. And you didn't get any of them. Have any of them. Locksmith, lock pick? No, no, we never, we never did that because the, the, the locks that are on roofs was like specialist.

They were quite specialist. They weren't just sort of the Yale lock or anything like that. No, they weren't key locks. They were specialist keys because the fire brigade needed them in case of an emergency. So we basically had the same set of keys that the fire brigade had. Get on top of the roofs. If we couldn't get on the roofs, like I said, we would ride on the top of the lifts to get up there. How'd you get on the top of a lift? Is that a secret? That's not a secret. It's not a secret.

So we would go up to say the first floor, send the lift back down to the bottom. Then we would use the fire brigade key in the top of the lift to open the doors on the first floor. Because the Lift was already on the bottom floor. It allowed you to step on top of the lift and on top of the lifts. In a tower block, there's a set of controls which puts the lift into service mode for the service engineers.

And you can press up and down buttons and control the lift with the buttons on top of the lift. And there's a little chair there because it's quite nice. And so you'd have to send it to the top floor. We'd be standing on the top of the lift. We're standing on top of the lift. And then the fire brigade keys would open the external. The lift would be on the bottom floor. We'd be on the floor. No, I mean, once you went up. Oh, once, yeah, once we'd be up.

But what, because they were in service mode, they wouldn't go anywhere. No one could call them. Right. So they'd be out of service, but. You'D just ride it up to the top? Yeah, no, we'd ride it up to the very, very top, where there'd probably be an air vent out onto the roof and we'd crawl out, out of the air vents out onto the top of the roof. Sounds like a movie. Yeah. Did it feel like being in a movie? It did, yeah. It was.

Listen, it was a. You know, people get their adrenaline rushes from all sorts of places. That was mine. It was. It was a bit of a buzz doing it. And. And so would you have to go up, like, early morning, late night, was it? It was normally 1:00 in the morning, 2:00 in the morning. If, if you can help it, you would try and be as quiet as. Possible with your scaffolding poles. Yeah, it's difficult to be quiet with scaffolding poles walking up a set of stairs. But, yeah, we, we managed it somehow.

I don't know how, but we still managed it. But, you know, the final result after doing all of that and, you know, knowing that you're being a bit of a renegade, was that you would be playing music that people wanted to hear that wasn't getting played on commercial radio and they loved it. He was entertaining people. But so, so we'll, we'll, we'll come across to that. But. So, so you, you go up, you set everything up and you've got then a trans. A transmitter and an aerial.

Yeah. And then how would you connect? So the way you'd be playing would be in another block? No, it could be three or four miles away. So how then do you connect to. That and broadcast from that so there was two ways. There was what was called a BAM1, which was basically another little transmitter that was on a different frequency, which was below the FM band. So you could transmit on that frequency over to your transmitter site.

The transmitter would have a receiver in it, almost like a little radio in it, and then that would convert to the amplifier and then transmit it out onto the FM frequency. That was the old school way of doing it. That was what the. Back in the 80s, the police used to moan about, that it would interfere with their signals and did it.

So not really in the 80s, probably because they were also on that band, but when we were doing it, they were already digital, so it didn't interfere with them because they weren't on that frequency. They still said it did in the 80s. It possibly, if you were close to Heathrow Airport, you might have been interfering with pilots. It's not a great look, if I'm honest. Stay away from that sort of thing, you know. But when we were doing it in the. In the 90s, they was already.

They was already on a different frequency. So that excuse where they used to say, interferes with the ambulance and the police and that sort of thing is. It used to bug me because I just knew. I knew it wasn't true. It was just a reason to take pirate stations off. Yeah. In my opinion. Well, now we. Now, I mean, hopefully by now everybody knows that nothing we get told is true. Well, it's always. Yeah, there's always something. Excuse to do something. There's always. Yeah, exactly.

But then in the. Do you know what? I don't even know when it came. I think it was probably in the early 90s, they started using microwave links. So microwave link was basically. It's a line of sight link. You had to. With the BAM one, you didn't have to be able to see your block. Right. You could just transmit it and the transmitter would pick up that signal.

With the microwave, it had to be line of sight, so it didn't matter Whether you was 20 foot away or five miles away, it could broadcast that far. But you had to be able to see your block. So we would use, you know, on a satellite dish, you know the thing that actually picks up the signal. Yeah, one of those. It's called an lmb, a low noise block. And you would point it to where your studio is and at the studio end you'd have this tiny little transmitter type thing.

It had a microwave horn, essentially. I think they came out of, like, alarm systems back in the old days, you know, like movement Sensor alarms that you get in the top corner of the room. Yeah. They've got a little microwave transmitter in them. So we used to use the horns from those and then it used to be picked up by the satellite LMB at the other end and it would just direct. That was like a better signal. Yeah, it was. One, it was much better quality. And two, it was.

The thing with DTI and Ofcom. It was. They recognize it. It was. It was a cat and mouse game with us. They. We had a certain sort of unwritten rules between us. They would take us off, we would put them on, just go round in circles. With the microwave link, they found it much harder to find where the studios were because if you raid the studios, you're taking the station off for ages. If you take the transmitter off, all the stations had backup transmitters.

You'd go up there, within a couple of hours you'd be back on air. Take the studio away and all the equipment that's more difficult to get hold of because it's more expensive. So the pirates were always trying to outrun the DTI with the microwave links. They've. They couldn't track the signal because it was such a thin beam. Right. Microwave beam that went from the studio to the transmitter block. They didn't have the equipment to find it.

When you would set that up, are you like literally using binoculars or something to see where you're. Yeah. Or we all. We would know because of where we were. The sort of layout of London at the time, it wasn't. I mean, I don't know. When was the last time you went into London? We went there last week and it's just tower block after tower block. It's their 40 story, 50 story towers there now. Back then it wasn't all the, all the tallest buildings were the flats. Yes, the 26 story flats.

So you wouldn't, you would never be too far away from them and you would know roughly where they were. So it was, it was almost a guessing game. Sometimes you point the thing and you'd go like that and up and down. Oh, yeah, there's a signal. Right, great. And then you tune it up a. Bit and so you'd be able to. When you're setting it up, you'd be able to see when it connected or whatever. Yeah, you'd be able to hear and see when it, when it linked up.

Ideally, your studio wanted to be just as high as you. Where your transmitter is, or quite high ground. Yeah. It's no good at being too low because otherwise you've got to get over other buildings. And once that signal hits, it's a window or a wall, that's it, you've lost it. You can't. Can't pick it up again. And so you. So you get everything set up and then you were. You were playing as well. So kind of doing so.

So did you so get to the point where you're actually like the running pirate station? Yeah. If people want to deal with it, they deal with it. Yeah, yeah. How do you fund it? What, running a. Running a pirate station? Yeah, because there's still some cost, implied cost, with gear and all that. Like, were they ever able to generate any, like, revenue or. Not really. Advert revenue and subscription. It runs on a subscription basis, on a subs basis.

So all the DJs on the station would have to pay to be on the station. Gotcha. Because you're providing that station for them and they wouldn't otherwise not have that platform. Right, I see, so. So yeah, they would pay their subs money every week and that would be what generated the income. Adverts, you know, adverts for raves and stuff. Yeah, it's always been the same way, you know, since Kiss was a pirate, the adverts were for events and events that you wouldn't see advertised anywhere else.

So, you know, that's what generates the income. There's always a cost involved because as soon as they take a transmitter off, you go and buy another one. And so. So in terms of the transmitter side and an aerial aerial and stuff, how much did that cost to ever set up? I remember about 300 pound for a transmitter aerials, maybe 30, 40 quid. And then all the cabling and everything else that goes with it. And that was. Sit up there in all weather, no problem.

Yeah. And. And then the studio side of it is just whatever you want in there. Yeah, whatever you want in there. Normally. Normally it would be in a kitchen. A set of decks. Set of decks on. In the kitchen in the kitchen of a flat. I don't know. I don't know why. I don't know. What it was is about pirate radio where the studio in the kitchen. It's really strange, but usually it was in the kitchen.

Some bread crates, you know, those big brown bread crates, those stacked up and either a kitchen work surface or a door that we've taken off from somewhere. That'll be your table, set of decks, mixer, whatever else. Phone line, obviously, for the shouts. That's it, that's all you needed. And you're away. And so how Long did you kind of. Were you deeply in that before eventually they all started to get broadcasting licenses or whatever. And KISS was the first big one, right?

King already was Jazz, Jazz FM got the first license and then Kiss and then, you know. Yeah, proliferated from there. I, I think I can remember actually when KISS got the, got their license, everyone was around. London was like super happy, kind of 20. No, it can't be 25 years ago. It could be. I mean, I was, I, I was, I was definitely young. I watched something the other day about when they started was in 1999 and they got their license. Can't actually remember.

Because I guess that was probably quite like a watershed moment. Where it was massive. And once, because once they started broadcasting as well, you know, legally, I think their listenership was so high that probably everyone realized like this, actually what people want to listen to. Yeah, we'll listen to establishment stuff. They want to listen to something that's a bit kind of edgy and, you know, run by the people that listen to it rather than run by, well, in suits.

I mean, if you look at kiss's story, it's, they did, they didn't just get a license. It was so hard for them to get a license. And not only that, but they were in competition with two or three other big pirate radio stations at the time. And I don't know how they managed to get a license.

I watched, I watched a documentary about it not so long ago, but it was a hard slog for them to get that license because they just didn't want to give them the license and they didn't want to, I don't think they wanted to make a sort of good example out of a pirate radio station because they were like, well, these boys, they're doing illegal stuff and now we're saying that they can do legal stuff. But I think in the end, I think probably pressure, yeah. To play music that people wanted to hear.

Yeah, I mean, I, I, I think, I mean, I was, I was thinking about this earlier this, this morning because, you know, I was kind of thinking about, I, I can remember sitting with my little tape to tape thing, you know, next to my bed, you know, next to my pillow. And like just, you know, you'd go through really slowly on the, the little. FM thing until, yeah, you find something. Yeah, oh, what have I got?

And then you'd have to wait for, you know, after a couple of songs to see what one you tuned into. But, you know, I was never really like any deeper into it than that. You Know, I used to listen to it and say, I found this one last night was really cool. I listened to it for an hour or whatever. But I think it's kind of like. It's actually the sort of the history of, I don't know, kind of youth culture anywhere and everywhere of.

Of kind of as you grow from a child into a teenager into an adult, wanting to, like, establish your own kind of mark on the world and your own culture and subcultures and music and clothing and, you know, I think skateboarding is another sort of similar kind of little vibe or surfing and. And it's quite interesting.

I don't know, I don't know how much you've been sort of following more recently, what all this stuff that's happened with social media, with it all being kind of controlled and the government was saying what can and can't be propagated, then Elon comes in and buys X X and just goes, guess what? Yeah, do it. Do it for free speech properly. Yeah. And. And it kind of struck me that actually, that that's actually a real strong parallel from what's happening right now to that kind of thing with.

Oh, absolutely, it's a fight against the establishment almost, isn't it? Saying to them, fuck off. Whatever you're doing is. We don't agree with it, do what you're doing, let us do what we're doing. But what we're doing, we have to go via the back door because you're not going to let us do it. And it's just two fingers up to the establishment. And I think, I think, you know, that's not. That's not exclusive to us. That's not.

I think, like you said, it's a teenage going into adult, rebellious things. Some people will just follow the narrative and some people will just open their eyes and go, hang on a minute, I don't like this. I'm going to do something different, you know, and I think pirate radio comes under that banner. And like I said, it has been since the 60s, because if it wasn't for pirate radio, there'd probably not be a big rock and roll scene in the 60s.

There definitely wouldn't be a radio one and there wouldn't be commercial radio as we know it now if it wouldn't have been for those sort of heroes, those renegade rebels. Yeah, you time, you know, you do. You do kind of. Why, I wonder, you know, when you have movements like that, that really kind of shape culture, like, if it. If it didn't happen, how would the world Would be different. Yeah, yeah, no, it would. It might be better, it might be worse, but it would be different. Very different.

Yeah. Because I think, you know, that, that. And I think as well, it's sort of. It's another parallel for me is like the. I forget who it was, but the, the guy that invented the printing press. Right. And then suddenly you are able to print, you know, a thousand copies of a poem or a piece of literature or a news article or whatever and disseminate that. Disperse it out to anyone that, you know. You don't have to be in the room.

Yeah. With the guy listening to him speak, you can just write it down and then it can be printed and then off it goes. And I think that kind of technology, let's say, of being able to broadcast something, music or speech or thought or whatever, but being able to reach more people than you ever can reach face to face is also like a very powerful kind of. I think it's something that we almost take for granted now. Yeah, of course, yeah. You play music and anyone can listen to it.

It wasn't always like that. No, it was. No, you have to go to Birmingham where this guy lives, and then he's gonna play a concert on. In November, 9:00 on a Tuesday. Like, if you're not there, you don't hear it. Yeah. Whereas, you know, this, this. This just suddenly allows that kind of rebellious young culture to just go, whoever's. I mean, how far would that, how far would that signal go when you were. When you were shooting off them roofs? It would usually. We was.

We were always based central London. It was a nice place to be. And it's quite. It's just central, isn't it? You can get out, you know, equal distances in either. Either direction. I would say definitely. Parts of you definitely reach the counties from central London. So obviously you cover the whole London. So probably. Yeah, yeah, probably. On a good. On a good day. On a good day. Yeah. Dependent. Yeah. Because, I mean, there was.

There's a. I'm not going to bore you with this, but there's a thing called atmospherics and sometimes on the, on the atmospherics, the signal will just travel like for miles and miles. Miles. And I remember we used to get emails from people in like the Netherlands and stuff or Finland or something saying, oh, yeah, like, you know, proper radio heads that have got big aerials and they try and pick up all sorts of shit from all over the world.

And they were like, oh, yes, we picked your signal up for 24 seconds and it was on this frequency at this time and blah, blah. And I'm in Finland, that's. How does it get all the way there? I mean, the same way as if you go to Dover, you can pick up signals from France and stuff, like radio station from France. But I suppose when you're actually broadcasting it out, that's exciting. Yeah. When you just hear, oh, someone in France heard something from Dover, you're like, yeah, yeah, exactly.

When we're doing it and you're hearing someone saying, oh, yeah, I picked you up in Finland, did you have, like. A little, you know, leaderboard of the furthest that you ever. I think that was probably the furthest that we ever heard from someone actually saying they picked us up. Could be further. I don't know. I wouldn't have thought it would have got to Australia or anywhere like that.

But, yeah, so generally, London, surrounding counties, Kent, Essex, Hertfordshire, it wouldn't get much further than that, obviously, depending on where you were broadcasting from. But, yeah, that was our target area. That was. That was. But then London's. That's where the. And it's densely populated, so, you know. Of course, yeah, if you can do 20 miles through London, I mean, even in those days, it's probably 4 million people. Yeah, 5 million people. Yeah, well, yeah, of course, yeah.

So. And that's just the people that are there. You. That's not counting the people that were driving in, driving around the M25. Yes. So, you know, all those. All those people were potential listeners. And so was when. When you were. When you were doing that from the tower blocks and the kitchens and whatever. Was that Shine FM then or not? Well, I mean, it was because all the stations were pretty much the same, the way they were run. That's what I mean.

If someone's in the pirate game, they will know about the kitchen setup. Everybody had a kitchen set up. Everybody went into a studio that was a kitchen setup at some point in their pirate radio career. Now, we said. I started with a. With Risk and then a station called Magic, Magic fm. Then I went off to do my own station, which is where I met Jolie, and then that joined up with another station and became something different, which is actually. I think they're still on there now, might be.

It was after that that I then joined up with Shine. That was in 2003. So, yeah, 21 years ago. And so that Shine at that point was still pirate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so how did you. How did you connect with them? They were already like a going concern. It was. It was already A station. So I met up with them because I had a particular set of keys to get onto a particular roof and they didn't have the keys, or I supposedly had the keys. I thought I had the keys for this roof.

I was adamant I had the keys for this roof. They had been locked. So what used to happen was the council used to come along. Even if your stuff was on and they'd left it on, sometimes you used to come and change the locks on the roofs. So you'd go back up there with your usual key and you'd go, oh, shit, that doesn't work. What am I gonna do? Then you'd call up as many people as you went. Anyway, so I had had a guy that used to come onto my station.

Not he wasn't regular, but he was used to come on now and again. And he phoned me and he said, oh, these guys have been locked off the roof. Have you got. I said, yeah, all right, I'll come over, help out. Adamant. This key is going to work. I try that. That's not going to work. I thought. I had to. I had about three or four of these different keys. I'll try that one. Anyway, none of these keys worked. So they were basically locked off of their roof. They couldn't get back on their roof.

And eventually, I think the station got taken off and it wasn't on air. I was already running a different station. So I said to him, look, come and share roofs with me. And that's. That's basically how it started. We shared a roof for a while. I then left the station that I was running because I had a fallout with the guy that I was running it with. I won't go into that. That was a bit of a mad thing that happened. I left and left them to it. And then I started doing a show on Shine.

I don't even know. It could have been three, four weeks later. And then I took Shine and put it on a different roof, one that we used to use three or four years previous that had not been used for a long time. We put it on there and Shine is already a known station, but it was at that point where I put it on this other roof and we'd gone up there and it happened by accident with Shine. We'd put the station on, we left it on and we left it on by accident.

We couldn't get up there to turn it off and it stayed on. Now, normally back in those days, you would have to turn your station off at midnight, whatever, 2 o'clock, in the morning, turn it back on at 6 o'clock in the evening. Because that was when the DTI used to come out. That was their working hours, 9 to 5. So if you weren't broadcasting between 9 to 5, you got a good chance of just turning it off, turning it back on when they've gone home for their dinner. We accidentally left Shine on.

I can't remember the. I can't remember the exact reason why. Either we couldn't get up to the roof or something had happened where we just couldn't get to the transmitter. We left it on and it just stayed on. We like, okay, this is cool. And then it stayed on for a week. Okay, this is kind of cool. Then two weeks, then a month. I think it lasted about eight months before it was taken down.

But in that time, because it was on during the day and there was no other pirates on during the day, we just captured a whole audience of people who couldn't listen to pirate radio during the day. The builders and the office workers and everybody else who couldn't listen to their favorite station because they didn't broadcast at that time of the day. All of a sudden there was one there and we just captured that whole audience of people.

And so how did you sort of monitor in those days how many people are listening? You can't. The only way we could monitor it was by how many phone calls we were getting, how many messages we were getting in. And our phone lines, they used to just be constant all day long. I think a number of things kind of came together with the station all at the same time. A number of sort of coincidences came. That was the first coincidence.

The second thing was we had a guy who's sadly passed away a few years ago, but we had a guy called Slips, that was his DJ name, absolute diamond of a guy. But he loved radio and he would go up there at midnight and he would do a show until 8 o'clock in the morning. He'd go all the way through the night every single day of the week. It was absolutely brilliant. And I think because of him being actually live and broadcasting and interactive with the.

You know, we were getting road workers and all sorts. Everybody that works at night is listening to the radio. And because he was live, it wasn't just a mix or something that again, that captured people's attention. People were able to message in at 4 o'clock in the morning and have a laugh with him because he was there and he was. He needed to be kept up by the people, by the audience. And they kind of responded really well to that. So I think a number of things all came together.

We just happened to have him who wanted to do that all through the night and the station was still on at night when it shouldn't have been. And that. I said that all came together all at once. So. But then suddenly you're kind of. Previously you would. So when you, when you would do the previous model, so you would put it up a six in the evening or whatever, take it down in the end of the night. How many sort of hours a week would that be broadcasting? It come on up.

It come on after six o'clock it'd be six to eight hours a day and all weekend. But then suddenly you're doing 24, seven. Yeah. How did you sort of obviously slips is there filling in the night stuff, but you still then got to fill in like an extra 100 hours a week of content. I think it's a domino effect. What happened was the station grew so big so quickly. Everybody wanted to be on it. They didn't care what time they were doing.

Like, they would, they were like, right, I want to do 7 till 9 or whatever it was in the morning or. And so then how do those new people that want to come on? Is that just word of mouth? Word of mouth? Yeah. It's always going to say. Because otherwise. Yeah, yeah, of course it is. Just ring those. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, so it's all who you know, word of mouth. Oh, I know a guy that can get you on this station and blah, blah, blah. But because it was.

Because it became so big so quickly, everybody wanted to be a part of it. Everybody just wanted to be on that station because it was so popular and you know, people would phone up and say, oh, I'll do anything, any, any hours, any, any time of the day because I just wanted to be on the stage. And so, so roughly when was that? Like what, what year was that? That would have been 2003, 2004. And then you said you had like an eight, nine month run where you, where it all stayed up.

Yeah. And then, and then they took it down and then we put it back up again. But were you able to. Yeah, we got, we got it back on. On the same roof? Yeah, yeah, we would, we would use a roof until we just couldn't use it anymore. It didn't matter if they locked us off, we'd find a way up there. Like I said, it was a cat and mouse game. They, they'd find a, they'd find a lock that we couldn't get and we'd find the key. It was. It was like an Easter egg hunt.

So. Yeah. And. And by hook or by crook, we would get on those roofs, especially the ones that we liked that could broadcast really, really far, right. And there wasn't. Like I said, there wasn't. Most tower blocks were 21 stories high. The one that we were on was 27 and in Central London. So it was. It was sort of. It was a beast of a tower block. There was only one that was maybe a floor taller. But the caretaker of that block lived on the top floor of the tallest. Of the tallest block.

And as soon as he heard any noise. He wasn't a pirate radio fan. No, he literally lived. His flat was next door to the hatch that he had to go through to get onto the roof. So as soon as he heard a key in the game, people tried to go up. I tried to go up there, of course I tried to go up there, because that's part of the game is, can we get on this? Can we get on this roof? Let's have a go. Right? And then you.

You do they get told to go away or you'd make it onto the roof and you think, oh, this is brilliant. But, yeah, I tried to go up there and I literally. I put the key. I remember putting the key into the gate, because it was a gate and a stairs and then it went up and his flat was next door and I put the key in the gate and it just went cronk. And that was it. I heard the door open next door and he went, what are you doing? And I was like, I think you know what I'm doing.

And the thing was, he was a really cool guy, but he was the caretaker of the building and he couldn't just allow us to go and do that. And he probably didn't want to turn a blind eye either, whatever. So he said, what are you doing? Said, you know what I'm doing. We're doing radio. He said, I can't let you do that. I'm not going to do anything. He just said, please don't come up here because I do live next door. It's not going to work for you. He says, it really isn't going to work.

He said, it's not worth it. He said, if I'm out and you sneak up here, your transmitter stuff will be down in a couple of hours. He said, just don't waste your time on this building. All right, cool, Fair enough. And you did get people like that. You did get people that. It's not that they listened to pirate radio or they were into the music or anything like that. They just thought they kind of.

Maybe they had the same sort of mindset as we did, where they were like, you know what, they're just a bit rebellious, like, I'm not going to do anything about it. So they just sold us. Don't bother with that. Yeah, so that's. So we didn't. We didn't go on that building. We went on the one a bit further back, which was only a couple of stories shorter. But, yeah, we were on that for quite a while. And so how did you go then from pirate to getting a broadcast license? That. That was a big.

There was a big break between the pirate station and getting the license. So it shut down as a pirate in. I want to. I can't remember 2012, I want to say it. Stop. We stopped broadcasting as a pirate. And why. Why did that. Why did you stop at that time? I got in trouble, so I couldn't go on the roofs anymore. I got taken to court for. Well, they raided the studio. If they raid the studio, you have to go to court. So if they do. If they go to the transmitters or whatever.

No, if you get caught on the roofs, which I also did then. Yeah, I mean, but they. They kind of knew me anyway, right? The DTI and Ofcom and they. They kind of knew me and I actually had quite a good relationship with them, believe it or not. Like I said, it was a cat and mouse game. We all knew what the game was, but I had a kind of good relationship with them.

And, yeah, once the studio raid had happened and I went to court and they were like, yeah, here's your community Service and your 2000 pound final. What community service did you have to do? Teaching kids how to. So good. Why couldn't they give me that? No, I had to clear out rubbish from charity shops. So not quite. Not quite the community service. It probably could have been worse, to be fair, but, yeah, I had to do that. A couple of thousand pound fine.

And that was my radio days over because I sort of went. And so off of the back of that, did they say, like, if you get caught again. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Oh, yeah. You got definitely, yeah, Custodial sentence. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. I got away. I got away quite. I'm not gonna say I got away lightly because still in my head I'm like, yeah, but I'm just playing music. I just. We just want to play music. That's it. We're not. We're not doing anything bad, but it's against the law and that's it.

And that's. That's what it is, you know. So, yeah, I think at that point it was. I don't want. I don't really want to go to jail. Yeah. You know. Yeah. So I didn't. And that's. I gave up. That was it. I stopped. So that was 2012. Ish. That was. That was. That was. Well, no, that was in 2009. Okay. I think the station carried on for a couple of years after I stopped doing it. And so say you were just DJing, you could still get Nick. Yeah, yeah.

And the other thing was that once you go to court for pirate radio for being caught in the studio, you then can't do any legal radio for five years. Right. So you're completely banned from doing legal. Any legal radio. Any legal broadcasting for five years. So I couldn't even. That wasn't even an avenue that I could explore. There was. At that time, there was a lot of ex pirate DJs. Big pirate DJs.

Don't know how much you know about the UK garage scene, but the dream team ended up on Radio 1. DJ EZ, he ended up on Kiss, and I don't know if he ended up on Radio 1 ever. But some of them old. There was quite a lot of old pirate DJs. Even the guy that I was on Magic with, who played after me, actually, he's been on Kiss for years now. So a lot of them did end up there. But once you get. They never got caught. Obviously once you get caught, your. Your. That door closes for you for five years.

Yeah. So you can't do it. You're not allowed to touch it. So it was a case of just sort of packing it in for me. So what did you do? Because. So up to that point was that. That was your main thing was doing the pirate radio in terms of like. Yeah, pretty much. And whatever that. I was kind of running my own. I was kind of running my own business anyway. I mean, I couldn't. Can't live on pirate radio. For me, pirate radio was a love. It's just a. It's just. It's just a buzz for me.

It was never a thing that made me rich. Not by. Not by a country mile. So, no, it's. It was obviously I. I used the contacts and stuff that I had to run my own business. And what were you doing? Can you talk? I was printing. Yeah. I was printing CDs for the music Industry. So, yeah, I mean, so did you. Just kind of focused on that once? Yeah, because came off at a radio. What happened. What happened with that was I literally. I woke up one day and I had an idea.

I thought, oh, I've got all these contacts, I know all these promoters. Why don't I offer to print CDs for them on a small scale and they can use them as flyers instead of giving out flyers. It would be a bit different. And I thought that might be an idea. So I just went to a few promoters. What do you think of this? Yeah, I'll have some of those. All right. And it literally built from there. And because people knew me anyway.

Yeah, it was like, oh, yeah, get, get Dynamics to go and print you 500 CDs for your event. And I did that for ages. I did that for about 12 years. So you would burn them. The music on Print Print on them. I did it for promoters, DJs, film companies.

I did some bits for Warner and Sony and, you know, guys that do put a. Put an album together and maybe in a studio like this who want a small run of demos and they're going out and they're selling them on the road and they don't want to print 5,000 because that's expensive. They only want 50 or 100 or 200. And I was just a small guy that printed a small amount of CDs and that was it. And that's what I did for 12 years. That's how I actually. That was my business, that's what I did.

But I couldn't have done that if I didn't meet all the people along the way that I'd met. Yeah. So, yeah, that's. That's what I was doing. That was my source of income. And then. And then once you got over that five year ban on any kind of broadcasting or whatever, did you get back into radio? I got back into it in a. In a legal. In the legal way, yeah. So I did. I gave it a rest for a couple of years and then I was offered something on a station in Romford.

They were doing some dance music sessions. It was. It's a bit of a. I don't know what. It's just a sort of local station in Romford. They never really had any specialist shows on there and then they decided one day that they were going to do these specialist shows from 8 till 12 or whatever every day. So I got offered a show on there. I did that for a little while. Weren't that great? You know, there Wasn't much interaction. And then the station that Jolie is on now, Funky, Funky Essex.

I went on there before she went on there. I don't know how long she's been on there. I went on there about eight years ago. They were after. I don't know how many people got licenses, but they were sort of. They got their license from being a pirate. They came off being a pirate. They put this whole business package together, which they did really well. They got some lottery funding and they managed to get themselves a local license to broadcast in Southend.

And I already knew the people that own that station because they used to listen to me on Shine back in the day. So. And I just moved from. Not far from here, actually, and from North London to Essex, so it was kind of handy. And that was how I got back into doing radio. But it was never. Obviously, I've never touched pirate radio again. People still doing pirate now? There are. Yeah, I mean, I don't have any contact with anybody in that world really anymore. But, yeah, there is.

There is three or four pirate stations that you hear pop up now. I mean, very little people probably even listen to FM anymore. It's so different now. The landscape is completely different. You know, back in 2003, how did you listen to your music? It was on the radio. How can you listen to music now? You've got a multitude of ways of listening to radio stations. And, you know, back back then, you. You wouldn't get Internet streaming. You could set up a station from your bedroom now.

Yeah. And broadcast it online. Same with everything, though. Even. Even, like, making movies, right? Yeah. You know, I remember I went for a phase of doing, like, making short films and I was like, I want to be a film director. Camera. I got microphone and I wrote some little short films and whatever. But I can remember watching, like, Tarantino and. Who's the other director? The guy who did El Mariachi. He was Tarantino's mate.

I can remember watching, like, I think it was a documentary or it might have even been an interview where they were talking about making that El Mariachi, how they. They had to, like, borrow a camera at the weekends from someone who was a student at a film right. Studio. And then they'd go to, like, Kodak and someone else made film and they'd like, you know, put their dad's suit on and blank that.

They were an exec with a thing and they wanted to try different film stocks to see the color grading. So they'd have, you know, eight minutes of Kodak film and then 14 minutes of this other film. And so they'd have to, you know, figure out exactly the shot they wanted because they literally had different eight minutes. Yeah, yeah. And. And you know, like get in a wheelchair from like an old people's home to do Steadicam shots. Whereas now, I mean, literally now you've got an iPhone.

Yeah, that's it. Yeah. Are you gonna shoot a feature film? I know. On an iPhone? Maybe it. Maybe a three axis gimbal. Yeah. Helps you. Yeah, you know, basically like not. Not a lot. Someone made it. Who was it? Who made a film. Who was it recently that made a film entirely on an iPhone? There was a few years ago. Right. No, this was. This was. It wasn't Guy Ritchie, was it? Probably it was someone recently, in the last. In the last year or two. Oh, no, he's made a film entirely on an iPhone.

I did watch one. It was. It was probably. It's probably like five, six years ago now. I think it was in the us it was maybe about prostitutes or something like that. But the same thing just with an iPhone. The whole movie got a cinematic theatrical release, limited release, you know, but theatrically released. But yeah, I mean, I think, I think that there was that sort of golden age of. Because I'm 52, so we like similar generation of kind of.

There was not much and then there was just like this proliferation of everything. Yeah, you kind of went from radio and that was it. And you would have to wait as well because, you know, like they're going to. They're going to play, you know, like Michael Jackson's new song. They're going to play it like Tuesday next week at 7:00. Oh yeah. They had a launch date, didn't they? Do you remember? Yeah, launch dates for, for radio, watching the Thriller video. Yes. I can remember going.

Going around to my friend's house. My friend's dad was a TV engineer. So they had a 32 inch telly. Oh, nice. Giant. This thing was like a, you know, like a wardrobe. It was so big and heavy. But they had a 32 inch TV and I reckon he must have had probably 75 people in his lounge. It was to watch the big telly, to watch Thriller. Watch Thriller. Yeah, I remember we got, we got there. Probably everyone started getting there. Maybe like, I think they played it at like 7:00 or something.

Everyone was there from like 4 or 5:00 having like chat and a little drink and whatever and then, you know, just like getting ready to see like the Thriller video. And did they record it though. Yeah, yeah. And if you were lucky enough to have a VHS because he was a TV guy. Right. So they had a video recorder. But you know, it's the same thing. We, I talked about this a few times on the, on some of the early episodes of the podcast of like the way the way media is delivered now is.

Is so on demand and there's so much kind of choice that you don't. I don't think you really get so much anymore. That kind of like bringing a whole community together to watch or listen to something like you used to do. Yeah. Because when it was kind of only like broadcast live kind of thing. Like everyone who say like the. Remember that when they used to have the big boxing fights. Yeah. Like everyone would watch the boxing if Mike Tyson was fighting.

I can remember, you know, staying up till 3 o'clock in the morning going around someone's flat, whatever. When Tyson fought Frank Bruno. Yeah. And it's just whoever you knew was watching it somewhere. Yeah. Like all at the same time. Everybody kind of focused on the same thing at the same time. And I guess you kind of experienced that a bit when you were broadcasting off of those rooftops. Is like everyone who's listening. Yeah. You're kind of all in the. Yeah. The zone together.

Yeah. Whereas now it's just like, you know, you just put on and off whatever you want. Replay it faster, slower, different speeds. Yeah, it's. And that, that is, that's the problem, isn't it? It's how we consume the stuff that we consume and it. Like you said, it's. Everything's on. Everything's on demand. Like I don't have to listen to the radio to listen to the music that I want. Yeah. I don't have to wait for my tune to come on.

I could just find it gone, whatever streaming service and find it, you know, it's there. Everything is on demand and it's. It kind of. I think that, I think that kind of thing pretty much put a nail in the coffin of pirate radio as it was 20 years ago. I mean, like, you know, they radius does still exist on such a small scale now. It's. It doesn't matter anymore. Yeah, it doesn't have the impact. No, there's. There's nothing there because the, because of the way people release music.

You know, music's given away free now, obviously on the radio it's free, but, you know, you don't have to go to Alpryce and buy a single and then watch it climb the charts. And this is there's none of that anymore. It's just, oh yeah, I'll listen to that or I listen to this or. You know, price and hmv. Right, hmv. And then do you remember when Tower Records Circus. Yeah. Everyone was like, yeah, that was five floors. That was brilliant. I used to love it in there. Yeah. And then you had.

And then so would you. Were you one of those guys who was always in? Was it like Carnaby street and Beak Street? That does, yeah. Black market records. Yeah. Red records. Yeah, yeah. Unity. Yeah, there's another one. Those records were expensive. Yeah, they were. I can remember being, you know, I guess from 14 to 20 years old maybe around that time and you know like a white label record or something imported or whatever, it was expensive. Seven quid back then to 13 year old is a lot of money.

Yeah, that's. Yeah, I used to go up there, it used to cost me whatever 2 pound 50 on the train to get up there. I used to be able to come back with about two records. But it was, the whole thing about that was the experience of doing it and the going into the record shop and seeing your favorite DJs who you heard on the radio stations and picking up all the flyers and all that sort of thing. Like you said, it was a whole culture and community and everything was based around that sort of thing.

The radio, going to record shops, that whole thing of how music got out there in the first place. If it wasn't for the radio stations, those shops wouldn't. Just wouldn't exist. Yeah, they would never exist because the music would have never been heard. It's just a completely different kind of different world. Right, yeah. Like I can remember as well when I used to go down into London going to Forbidden Planet. Yeah. Comic shop. Yeah, I used to love that. Yes. And, and, but I mean.

Yes, it's just, it's a completely different. Yeah, you know, I, one of my patients at work said to me and it, you know, it kind of struck a chord with me. He said, you know when, when I was younger he said your, the first half of your Saturday on the weekend was just trying to find where your mates were. Like until midday you didn't even know where anyone was. You go to the park and you'd ask someone, they go, oh, they were here. But about, they left about an hour ago.

Okay. They could even be 711 or the sweet shop or the other park. Yeah, yeah. Well I'll head for the other part. Yeah, no, they're not there either. Okay. Whereas now you're Just, you know, like everything's live updates and mapped and yeah. You can be found in an instant. Yeah, technology is always going to move forward, isn't it? You know, it's, it's never going to just sit still and then it's not going to happen where you go, all right, okay, well we like this, we like the way this is.

We're just going to stop innovating anything like that's just never going to happen. Yeah, it's not, that's not the, that's not the, it's not human nature, is it? No, human nature is, is, is the opposite. And, and so I mean, where we're, where I think where we're. The next evolution, if it's going to be an evolution, is going to be AI. Have you, have you got any thoughts on what's coming down the pipeline, Gary? AI. Yeah, Scary. I thought, I don't know.

As a bit of a techie, geeky type of person that I am, my dad bought me my first computer when I was seven. It was a BBC Acorn Electron and I taught myself to program that computer from reading books and stuff because I said before. Intrigues me how stuff works. So from a techie, geeky point of view, I'm interested by it because it's, I kind of think it's cool. But I can also as a 47 year old see the bad stuff that can come out of that. Really bad stuff that can come out of that.

You know, we fill our homes with all these. Have you got Alexa at home? I have, yeah. You won't have it. Do you know what? Yeah, I know. I'm really torn between it because I kind of like. You know when you're a kid, right, and you see a sci fi movie and they walk into a room and they go, and they go, turn the lights on and the lights come on, you go, it'd be great if that could happen. The doors. It'd be brilliant.

Yeah. I was a kid, I'd be like, yeah, that'd be great if, when we were adults that could happen. And now it can happen. I'm like, oh, okay, well, that can happen. I, I'm kind of torn between it because I, I quite like it. I quite like the convenience of it. I also understand that them things are listening to everything that I'm saying. So have you had any, have you had any? Like real crazy all the time.

The Facebook thing is, I, I'll tell you what happened to me when I had my, I had, I had a, I had my own business a few years ago, unfortunately, because of the lockdowns and all that. Yeah, yeah, because of that. I had to shut it down because it was a retail business and it just finished me. Anyway, completely different story for another day. But I had a customer in there and he came in and we were talking about. I had. I was. I was in the CBD business. So I had all these.

They were 50. They were like replica 50s propaganda posters. Marijuana posters from. From America, from 40s, 50s, whatever. And I had them up in the shop as decoration. I started talking to someone about that sort of advertising. Old school adverts. You know, where the doctor was smoking and this is good for you. Smoke 20 Benson and edges and all that from the 40s. Anyway, we got onto the subject of.

He's got this book and it's just illustrated with or copies of those old adverts from 1920s up to about 1950s. It's a coffee table book. I, for the life of me, can't remember what this book is called. It was the most obscure name I've ever heard in my life. Right. So he's talking about this. This is what the book's called. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, so about half an hour later, I'm on Facebook, as you do. There it is. The name of this book's popped up.

Never searched for it because I couldn't even remember what it was called. By the time he'd gone out of my shop, I couldn't remember the name of this book. Yeah, it was so obscure and I don't know what it's called now. I've got no idea. Probably gonna pop up on your Facebook later. Well, I haven't said the name, so. Yeah, it doesn't even need the name. Yeah, don't worry, I remember. Yeah, it's gonna. It's gonna remember. I'll let you know if it does, if that happens.

But. But yeah, so that happened and that just ultimately, like, convinced I already knew that that was a film. It's. It's. It's too crazy, right? Because I don't. You know, I don't. We don't have Alexa. I don't. You know, I try to. I try to have as little technology as possible. I'm on my phone all day. But yeah, apart from that, as little technology as possible. But, you know, I was. I was looking. I had Auto Trader open and I was looking at car adverts.

I was looking at Audi R8s and I had this advert open and I went to Jiu Jitsu class. And I didn't even have. My phone was in my bag, so my phone was in my sports bag, like, five meters away. The guy who runs the club, I was talking to his partner. She's. Turns out she's mad into cars. Her brother had an R8. So we're just talking about R8s and she's saying, oh, yeah, my brother had one's really cool manual gearbox and this, that and the other. Da, da, da.

Anyway, we're just having this conversation, do the class, get in the car to go home. Phone rings. I didn't answer it because I'm driving, but I get home and I'm like, oh, Gemma called me. She left me a. She leave me a message or. No, she. She said, oh, I've left you WhatsApp message or whatever. Look at the WhatsApp message. And she goes, look what just popped up on my laptop. She's a Pilates instructor.

She goes, I was just going through buying Pilates equipment and then this advert comes up for an R8 on Auto Trader. She's like, how crazy is that? I said, you know what's even crazier? That's the advert. That's the car that I've got open on my laptop. So on Auto Trader, I don't know, there was 150 Audi R8 for sale. There's a black Spider facelift one. Yeah. She sent me the, like, the screenshot. I said to her, you know what's. The exact one that you were looking at?

That's what's open on my laptop. That's what I had open. And it's mad, isn't it? It's. It's. And you know when you're like, I get it. How is it that good? Yeah, it's shockingly good. Like, because I. It. That wasn't. Like, my phone was not listening. It was her phone. Yeah. That somehow knows that my phone is in that building and then goes, oh, he's been looking at R8 adverts. But probably it would possibly be via, I don't know, geotagging.

They know you're in the same location, but just that it's mad. But that's. But that's the thing. Like, it is scary. It's scary. But in my little brain, that's amazing. I'm like, wow, that's really impressive. But it's impressive and scary. I think that the difficulty with it is that, again, like, we go, like you're saying with Alexa, right, we kind of go towards convenience, we go towards comfort, you know, I don't know. Do you follow David Goggins? You know, David Goggins is.

No, David Goggins is like a utter savage. This guy's, he's, he's got a few world records for like, you know, pull ups in 24 hours. He's a, he's a, he's a cool guy. Should have a look. He's been on Rogan a couple of times and he's, he's kind of the opposite. He's like, I want to always do the hardest, most difficult, miserable because it keeps me in that. Like his whole thing is that he's unbreakable.

He can't break me because I, I will always find something harder to do than whatever you think you're going to give me to do. Like. And he, he did the Navy SEALs, right? And they, when they do the, the hell week or whatever it's called, when they try to whittle them down, they basically got these, those kind of dingy things, the hard bottom, those launches that they, that they have. And I think they're in 10 man teams. They basically pick up this thing. I don't know how much it weighs.

They run down the beach, they put it in the water, they got to swim out and drag it out like 100 meters to this boy. Turn around, swim and pull it back, get out, pick it up, run it up the beach again. They just keep doing it. I'm getting tired just listening to that. Until like enough people quit. Yeah. So they've got 10 teams and it's just like when there's three left, you can stop. So. And whoever's the three goes on to the next stage. If you give up, like, you go.

And he had this thing you can't break boat crew two. They were boat crew two. He goes, even when we were the last boat crew, he goes, we. I just told him we're not stopping because we've done like another 10 hours. There's the instructors left. And he goes, from then I knew that I'm in the instructor's head. Yeah, he's not gonna, he knows he can't break me. He's not even gonna try because we just, we made them go to bed and we were still just doing it. As that is proper mental discipline.

Yes, but, but you know, I think we, we generally, we tend to kind of go the other way, which is. What's this? Just a little bit easier. Just an Alexa and just to this, just maps. Yeah, I won't bother to check where I'm going. I just, I Just put on maps and then it'll tell me. I won't. I need to look at the route. But eventually we, we become so reliant on the. It thumbs us down. Yeah. And, and, and not just that, but I don't know. Would you listen to Rogan's podcast? Sometimes?

Yeah. So he's got this advert for, you know, everyone's got an advert for this vpn. What's it called? Everyone's pimping the same vpn. So VPN is like a virtual private network. They connect to it and yeah, you, you can. I don't know what one he's. He's touting. Yeah, they, they all, all the podcasts, they're all, they're all doing the same one. But. But basically what he's saying is the new advert, which is actually makes sense. He's like, why do you want to use a vpn?

You know, it's not so you can look at websites that you shouldn't look at or stuff that's not available in your country or whatever. It's because when you go to get health insurance next year and the health insurance company goes, but you've been looking at a load of prostate medical websites, so you need to go and get prostate. Yeah. Otherwise we won't insure you. Rather than just being like, how old are you? You know, what's your kind of collection? Yeah, we won't. We, we won't insure you.

Yeah. Well, you can't get life insurance anymore. You can't get contents insurance because you've been, you know, doing. Which is ridiculous, because you should be able to look at whatever you want without there being, you know, I mean, a reason for doing that. Like, even for your own research, you should.

And this is, and this, I think, kind of circles back to Elon buying Twitter and turning it into X and trying to bring back free speech and freedom of expression and freedom of access to information, which is a fundamental human right. I mean, that's. I'm assuming that was kind of always your. In the back of your mind in those early days when you're doing the pirate radio, which is like, music is like what makes us human. Right.

Yeah. And you want to just share your music with the people that want to listen to it. Yeah. And there should not really be some tosser sitting somewhere going, well, actually, you know, in this square area of, you know, Earth, you need to get a license from this person and it cost you. It's about money, ultimately. Is it about money or is it about Control. Probably a bit of both because. Probably a bit both.

The thing, not the thing that, that I found kind of so shocking and so like really starkly revealing was through all the COVID stuff because, you know, a lot of people were kind of saying, oh, the reason, you know, people did all this shitty stuff is for money. And I'm like, they already have all the money. Yeah. They don't need. They own the bank. Like, they print the money. When they want more money, they just go, how much do we need? An extra £47 trillion. Right. Hang on a minute. Enter.

Literally that's, that's how we print fiat currency. So it's. I don't even think, I think in the middle layer, it's about money. You know, there's a guy, he's got a job in the DTI or Ofcom or whatever and he's, he's getting paid 100 grand a year and he just, he wants his pension and he wants to go football on the weekend and doesn't really give a. He's like this, but he's, he's just doing what he's told. Yeah. Whatever his bosses tell him, I mean, that's, that's his job. Right.

But on that, on that higher up level, I think it's about control. It's about kind of just you, the powers that be, just want a bunch of sheep that just go, I'm watching Clarkson's Farm, Season 3 of Clarkson's Farm at the moment. You know, it's like they, we're gonna keep them in this field for a bit and then the potatoes that we can't eat run out. We're gonna move them in the forest and they'll clean up. Yeah, it's that, right?

Yeah. And that's kind of, I think that's why things like pirate radio like resonate for people, free minded people so much. Because you're like, fuck, yeah, yeah. Two fingers up to the system, isn't it? Two fingers up to the people that have the control.

And I think as well, you know, pirate radio in that, in that, in that way maybe because I'm older and it's a little bit of a romantic kind of remembering of it, but it's kind of like whenever you sort of see like those slightly older movies, there's always someone broadcasting like the signal to the rebellion. Yeah. Like on some kind of radio frequency. Like, you know, if you can hear this, like, you are the resistance. Yeah. And it's, it's kind of, it's a bit like that. Yeah. Isn't it.

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, so do you think them there is a modern equivalent of that? Is it, is it just posting Truth on X and Rumble and whatever? I mean, do you, are you still kind of sticking it to the man or. Not so much anymore. You just. In my own private little way. Yeah. No, maybe not so much on the radio because that's, that's, that's legal and licensed and. Yeah, we've got to kind of stick to that kind of framework. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah.

But what, what I think in my own little way has got nothing to do with that side of things. You still keep your mind. Oh, yeah. Free in that kind of. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. I think it's important and I think the people that, the people that we've got around us kind of probably, I don't know, I can't speak for everybody, but we're kind of in the same mindset anyway, because anybody that did pirate radio anyway was always, always going to be a little bit rebellious, a little bit of a free thinking person because they obviously knew that when they're doing that, that what they're doing is the two fingers up to the, up to the authorities.

It's just like, I'm doing this because I want to do it. I love it. I want to play music with people, I want to entertain people. But you're not going to let us. So I'm going to do it anyway. Yeah. So I think anybody that's in that scene is already in that mindset. That's never going to leave you, is it? When all said and done. Yeah. With regards to, I suppose, Rumble and Elon, it's, it's good that someone's fighting against the system. It can be a. I, I don't envy that guy. I really don't.

That's a fine line he's treading there. And, and I mean, I don't know, I don't know what, whether you got political views, but I mean, Trump as well, you know, you're a billionaire, you're 78, you can go anywhere you want, do anything you want, just play golf all day and then you decide, I'm gonna, I'm gonna put myself in a position where they're gonna try to take all my money, put me in prison, shoot me in the face in front of my family. Yeah. You're like, yeah, but I'm gonna do it anyway.

Yeah. I mean, I don't know, like I said, I don't know whether you're a Trump supporter or not or ambiguous, but when, when I woke up that morning and he'd been shot. And I just put on, like, the YouTube and it was. The whole thing was just like. I was like, oh, my God, what the fuck happened? And then I just see that video, you know, where he just stands up and he's like, fight, fight, fight. And I'm like, that gizzard is. That's. That's a rare breed. He's also a rebel. That's a rare breed, but.

But then he's a rebel who's a billionaire. So again, he's like, well, he can. He can afford to be a rebel. Yeah. Yeah. He's got something to fall back on. Most people who are a bit rebellious, like the normal people, like we are, you can't. You can't fight against certain systems because you just. Unless. Unless there's big, big, big numbers and it's just a. I don't know. Well, that's what it comes down to, doesn't it, is that you've either got civil. Civil uprising.

Yeah. Or you've just got to be really rich and you don't give a shit about anything and you can just do whatever you want. I mean, you go really rich because, you know, 20 million or 50 million, look, that'll go in a heartbeat. You gotta be. You gotta be an Elon who's like, yeah. Billion space rockets and, you know, satellite links and tunnels and God knows what. You got to do it. But, I mean, again, I don't know if you listened to him when he was on. Have you listened to him on Rogan?

He's been on a few times. No, I haven't. The recent one was actually really good. I mean, I kind of. Because I wasn't. I was never really a massive fan of Elon Musk, but, you know, more so over time, I've become. I've become more of a fan. But when he was just on recently, just before the elections, and he was basically saying, like, this is. This is the last election. If Trump loses, everything's done.

There'll be so much kind of fuckery done behind the scenes that you'll never be able to have a fair election ever again. The incumbent power will just stay in power. They will be able to just manipulate everything and remain in power. But, yeah, I mean, it's going to be interesting to see how everything plays out now, because that Trump getting in is a big shake up to the whole world order. Right. It'd definitely be interesting. Oh, they don't like him. Yeah. If he don't really like him.

No. But, yeah, well, we'll see. Elon again is, you know, he's like, you said, he's taken over X. He's brought back free speech. But then I saw his robot. Have you seen his robots? Have you seen his Tesla robots? I mean, it's almost like he's just going, all right, free switch on this hand. But AI, yeah. Have this robot in your house to do everything for you. But, you know, the way I think about it is kind of what you were saying before, like, we are going to march towards technology as humans.

Right. We didn't have a wheel. We made the wheel. Whoever's got wheels, suddenly cool. You can move more stuff around. We made fire. You can cook food, you live longer, less germs, whatever. Yeah, we're always going to head towards technology. And I think this is. This is kind of one of the arguments against Trump and Elon that I hear a lot is that Trump did this, Elon does that, and he's making robots and whatever.

He's like, someone's going to be the president and someone's going to make robots. Yeah, of course. So it's like you're playing chess and you're going, I want to play with green pieces. And they're like, there isn't green pieces. You can choose black or white. No, no, no, I want to play. I don't like. I want to play with yellow pieces. There aren't any yellow pieces. So choose black or choose white. And then you just play the best game you can play. You might decide, I don't want to play chess.

I'll just sit out and I will abstain. That's also fine. But you can't say, oh, really? I want so and so to do it instead. Because so and so isn't going to do it. It's going to be Jeff Bezos. Yeah, of course. Or Elon. It'll be someone else. Or Zuckerberg or George Soros or, you know, there's a bunch of really bad guys and then there's a bunch of. You don't really know. And then there's slightly better. And you just choose, like, who's your player? Right. You can play barbarian.

Yeah. You know, sorcerer or Archer or whatever. You can't play robot because robot isn't in that game. No. So you pick. Pick the one you want. Yeah. And I. From where I'm sitting, I think he's the best option. If he didn't do it, someone else would anyway, you know, you've got like, I don't know, in terms of Robots. You've got companies like Boston Dynamics. Have you ever seen their stuff? Mental. It's scary. They've been around for donkeys years.

They've been around for 35, 40 years and they've been inventing robots for. I'm really surprised that he's come out with something like that over Boston Dynamics, because they've been around for a long time. I think somebody's going to do it anyway. It doesn't matter, does it? Boston, I think it seems like they're a little bit more militarized. Utility stuff. They scare the shit out of me. That's going to be your mate. Were they the ones that. Were they the ones that invented the robot dogs?

Have you been. They're mad. Do you know what was the craziest thing that I saw? The one that just fucked my head the most was one of the earlier ones when they had the dogs. Yeah. And have you seen the ones where the guy. The guy. Oh, that black. That's terrifying. With the dogs, the robot dogs, Those little ones. That's terrifying. No, but there was a Boston Dynamics video where the guy was kicking the dogs over to show that they. And I was like, don't kick the dog. Don't kick the dog.

Because it, it, it looked. It moved like a dog. And I was like, I was feeling bad for the dog and I was like, hang on a minute. It's a robot. Like, it's like saying, don't knock the Hoover over. Like you wouldn't feel. Oh, the Hoover. He always cleans up my flat now. Oh, it fell over, but it's a Hoover, Right. When it breaks, I just get another one. I won't be like, here's a picture of our first Hoover and then we've got a picture of our second. It's a Hoover, right?

Yeah, but I saw that dog getting kicked over and I was like, that guy's a tosser. Just kicking that dog. And I was like, it's. But it's a robot. Brought yourself back to reality. Yeah, but then when I, When I saw that recent Elon with the, with when they did the launch of the. Was it the self drive and the. And the robots and did you see when the. When the robot was chatting to that guy? Yeah, I know. Scary. It was. You know, you're looking at a robot, but you're like, it's like a person.

I, I sounded like a person. I feel like I'm like, the vibe of a human. Oh, man, it was. It's gonna get trippy. Yeah, I know, but now that the guy that wrote iRobot directed or whatever. Wrote iRobot is trying to sue him, isn't he? Stole his design. I was trying to sue. Stole his Irobot design and the cyber truck design, Was that in there as well? Yeah, both. Yeah, yeah. I mean, if Elon's done it, Elon, legally, he knows he can do it. He just looked at the movie. He's gone. That's a good idea.

I think I'll make that. Make it look like that. I make. I'm a billionaire, I can make that. It's pretty standard right ahead. Arms, hands, legs. I mean, you've only got so many ways you can go. I guess you can go T1000. Yeah. Or ED or the ED. 209. Yeah. You go that. You could go that route. IRobot is probably the better. The better option. Wicked. All right, let me, let me ask you my quick fire questions. Go for it. And we can roll it up.

Would you rather fight one horse sized duck or a hundred duck sized horses? One horse sized duck or 100 duck sized horses? Whoa. It's got to be 100 duck sized horses. Yeah, yeah. I mean, this is kind of a little bit like the zombie question, right? Like they're gonna keep coming, right? Yeah, yeah. End of level, boss. Yeah, no, it'd have to be that. It'd have to be the minions, wouldn't it? It'd have to be the minions. I'd have the advantage over them.

And I think I've got a possible insight into the answer to this question. But you're trapped in a TV show for a month. What would you choose? Do you know what? I don't know if I would choose the Walking Dead because they usually get brutal, right? Yeah, it's brutal. It is stressful as well. You're aged, like. Yeah, it is. Listen, if there was a. I was gonna say if there's a camera in my bedroom, but there probably is on the Alexa.

If there was a camera in my room filming us when we watch the Walking Dead, like, I can't imagine being in that show. It's stressful watching that show. Yeah. Being in it is just like 17 levels above stress that I could probably handle. Yeah, Not Walking Dead then. But if you're on the right side and you got the right weapons, it. Could be a good one, right? Yeah, yeah, definitely. If you could have dinner with anyone, living or dead, who would you like to have dinner with? Ah, that's difficult.

That's the old. That's the ultimate question, isn't it. And everybody probably says the same set of people. I would have to say one of them would definitely have to be Prince, but not as in Charles. Prince Charles or Harry or. I mean the real. Only the real one. He would have to be one of them. I would like to have. I don't know, it's too difficult. I would like to. I tell you, the one person I'd like to ask a question to is, did you know who Tim Berners Lee is? I would like to ask him.

Internet, right? Yeah, I would like. Well, he invented the World Wide Web. The Internet was already militarized from the 60s, wasn't it? But he invented the World Wide Web as we know it. I would like to ask him some questions just because he is the daddy of the Internet as we know it today. And from what he invented. Not that long ago in our lifetime, was it in the 80s? So where's it gone? It's just. It's just massive. It's just it. It's taken over our whole lives.

Would you take him over Prince? Oh, no, they're two different people. They're very, very different people. I gotta. I gotta narrow you down to one. Ah. I mean, it's cool. I like, I like the two. It's the very opposite. Three is company, right? Yeah. Three is a crowd, Rob. Yeah, three is definitely a crowd too. I'd have. I don't know. They're so different. I mean. All right, we'll put a moratorium on that one. All right. It'd have to be Prince then, in that case. Yeah, it would have to be Prince.

Yeah. And the follow up question is, what would you eat? Oh, doves, definitely. Dove. No, I like it. Doves. Doves. Doves. Roasted dove. What do you sing at karaoke? I don't do karaoke. No, I'm not a karaoke person. What would you sing if you had to sing? I don't know. I don't know. I can't. I can't answer that. What, what would I sing at karaoke? Yeah. When. When Doves Cry? Yeah, maybe. Yeah, there you go. We'll tie those two in.

If you could go back to any point in time for 24 hours, when and where would you go? That could be your Tim Berners Lee. Yeah, well, yeah, it could be, but I would like to. I would like to go back. If I could go back to a time I would go back to a time that I haven't been alive in. I don't know why, but the late 50s has got some sort of like romantic attraction to me Anywhere in particular? Hollywood. I'm not that fond of America.

I'll tell you what, I'll tell you where, if I had to pin down a specific point in time, and this is someone also that I would like to have at dinner as well. Jimi Hendrix at Woodstock, when he played the last bit of Woodstock and it was supposed to be closed and he was still there playing the American national anthem and all that and telling everybody whatever he thought because he was so off his nut. If I could go back to a point in time and see something that would be a great point to.

To see, I would have loved to have watched Jimi Hendrix live. What's the best piece of advice you ever received? Someone. Someone once said to me, it was a manager where I used to work 25 years ago, just said, it doesn't matter that whatever. Whatever amount of money you earn, or it's a little amount of money or a lot amount of money, whatever you get in your wages, always treat yourself to something to make yourself feel like you're not just working to live. Good piece of advice.

Yeah. What's the best video game you ever played? Up until two years ago, when I was made to get rid of my Street Fighter 2 arcade machine by. How could you get rid of. I know. It'S one of the greatest games ever. I bought. You could have just painted it. I said I would get rid of it. I had the arcade. Yeah, I bought the arcade. You see, it's. It's got to be that or Outrun. Actually, I. I was a big fan of me. I had Amiga 500. I was. I went against the grain a little bit.

A lot of people had Atari sts. I can. I had an Amiga. I didn't have either, but I can remember playing Outrun in Brian and Marge's sweet shop at lunchtime. Who's Brian and Marge? Because that was. That's what we called it. It was a sweet shop. Yeah. Yeah. Anyone who went to Christchurch will know Brian and Margies and actually they had. So they had Outrun. I did. It was it. Was it there. Was it Louise Caf. I don't know. Anyway, but they. They also had Altered Beast.

Do you remember Altered Beast? That was great on a mega drive. And. And one lunchtime I was playing with my friend and. Because you could play two player, right? And it got broken and it just kept giving us. Continues. Oh, nice. Yeah. And we were late, like 45 minutes after lunch, back to school. And they were like, you're late. We were like. We were trying to Explain like, oh, it's beast got broken. And we were like, we've got three games. And they were like, what are you talking about?

It's like, this is a, you know, table. Keeps spitting the balls back. If you could have one superpower, what would you choose? What would be my superpower? I used to dream of flying, but that's a bit boring, isn't it? But that's just watching too much Superman, isn't it? Or having laser eyes or something. Flight silicon. It's got absolutely no purpose whatsoever having that sort of superpower. I don't know what superpower I would have.

No, I don't know, it wouldn't be to be super strong or whatever. Laser eyes seems quite cool though. Laser eyes? Yeah, laser eyes, yeah. Cool. You're stuck on a long haul flight. The infotainment is broken. Who you sitting next to? Who am I sitting next to? Who do you want to sit next to? I could only. I could only say Vicky, of course. That's the only person I'd want to sit next to. I'd only want to sit next to her on a long haul flight. Very good. That makes up for the Street Fighter machine.

Oh yeah. All day long. I'm not bitter about that. Do you have a funny joke? No. If you could remove one thing from Earth, what would it be? This is a cancel question. Yeah. Hang on a minute. What can I say here without what? Yeah, him as well. Beautiful. Absolutely. Yeah, definitely. Or the other one. Or the other fella. Or Tedros. Either one. Probably. Probably. Probably Clark and he's. Oh, yeah. In fact, if they were in west meeting. If they were.

Yeah. If they were in, in their little Davos meeting and it could just sort of disappear into the ground somehow and then the ground sort of swallows it up and I love it. They don't ever appear again. That'd be great. This I think might be Vicky's favorite question. Do you have a bug out plan for the zombie apocalypse? Ah, have we built our bunker yet? No, no, we haven't built bunker yet. You think you would kind of go bunker or you. Or you go out in the wild? Yeah, no, I think we'd just.

I think off grid. Seems off grid. Seems good. Yeah. Foraging. Yeah. It kind of depends on your zombies, right. Because you know you got like obviously walking dead. You know, there's certain parameters of the zombies, but if you go like I am legend or something like different, you're not foraging really. Those ones are. Yeah. Steroid zombies. Yeah. Cocaine zombies. On these you want the strung out Zombies in Walking Dead. So you can do a bit of mushroom foraging? Yeah, that's what we do.

You can't trust anybody in a zombie apocalypse. Everybody just wants to kill you. The zombies want to kill you. Somebody else wants to kill you. Somebody else always wants to be the boss as well. Yeah. He turned out to be all right. He was a big, soft, misunderstood. Yeah. But, yeah, that's the thing with the kid, wasn't it? In the later seasons, there was some kid turned up and he became like a surrogate father for the kid or something. Yeah, yeah, he turned his.

He turned his shit around, he became. All right, good old Negan. Final question. Go for it. You can have £10 million in cash right now, but you are being chased by a snail. If the snail touches you, you die a horrible death. The snail cannot be stopped. The snail cannot be killed. The snail knows where you are at all times and it has only one purpose, which is to get to you. Would you take the money? I got sleep. Of course not. Of course I wouldn't take the money. That would be ridiculous.

What's the snail? I don't know. I'd have to. I. Maybe I'd have to work out how fast the snail moves. Snail pace. It's a normal snail. Apart from all this parameters that I. Just listed, if I was. Can it. Oh, yeah. I suppose a snail can go up, can't it? Yes. Yeah. So if. If you could get on top of. A lift, you'd be constantly on the run, wouldn't you? Because you couldn't. Yeah. No, you. You couldn't enjoy it, could it?

If you flew to Australia, it would take ages to get to Australia, wouldn't it? Yeah. So you can stick on a reasonable. Can get on a plane. I mean, you don't know. Right. It could. It could. It's coming. It could. You wouldn't be able to enjoy. No, no, I'd rather. I'd rather not have to kill us now. Yeah. I'm honest. Yeah, you, me, both. No, no, leave me poor. Thank you very much for coming in. That's all right.

Have you got, like, any socials or anything you need to shout out or anyone you want to shout out or people want to get older? You or your. Yeah, My. My socials are at DJ Dynamics on everything. DJ Dynamics. Dynamics with an X, of course. Yeah. And then obviously the radio, which is. Official Shine 879. Official Shine 879, yeah. That's the socials for the radio. So you on there at the moment on Shine? Yeah. Yes. When, when do you, when you play? I'm on Wednesday morning from 10:00 till 12:00.

Cool. So, yes, it's going very well on there. It's grown nice. So, yes, it's going really well. Beautiful Wednesday, Wednesday morning. Nice. Thank you very much for coming in. You're very welcome. It's been awesome. Thank you guys for listening. I know everyone's time is precious, so if you stayed all the way through, we appreciate your time. Make sure you're following the podcast at White Basement Pod. Everywhere that you listen to podcasts. You can listen to it if you want to watch.

Go to Rumble, a new episode every Tuesday, 5am and we'll catch you next time. Day long. Pretend, keep you in the dark, you know.