#110 Challenging the Norm: Conspiracy Theories and Critical Thinking

Because I've got quite a lot of friends that are into conspiracies, and I love conspiracies, and I was more into them when I was younger. Is that when you open the door to one, it tends to lead onto more and more and more and more. So I'm intrigued to. To find out why, whether that was the first one and then why you feel like it led into them. Looking at this and looking at it, going, oh, there's an enemy there, or there's something in the shadows or that looks fake, or. Hey, guys.

Welcome to another episode of the white basement podcast. Follow the show on instagramitebasementpod, find us on Spotify, Apple podcasts, Amazon podcasts, and since we've been booted off of YouTube, head over to rumble if you want to watch the show. Check out our sponsors to support us. And please do share the show. It helps us to grow. Today is the clash of the titans, Godzilla versus King Kong, the battle of the Beards, the war of the weirdos. Yeah, you obviously. I thought you had one.

The podcast in Kessel run to determine who is Han Solo and who's chewbacca the high man. Chat to the death studio showdown to decide once and for all who is the returning est of returning guests. And the spoiler alert is Bentley, is it? Who has been on five shows. Ed's been on four. But Ed's episodes are the most listened to and watched shows I've done. Quality, every quantity. Welcome back to the podcast. We talked all over your intro, and then it's me. I haven't got that anymore.

I can just kill you. Why'd you show off? I kept dreaming about not having a beard, and everyone was wearing beards, and. When I woke up. And you did not. No, it's just when I first grew a beard, not many people had beards. Not having a beard is a new beard. Yeah. So I went, no one's got tashes and a little triangular, goofy beard, but. There'S a reason for that. All right, well, if they're.

If they're gonna recast the musketeers, I. Mean, do you find it's dreams that tend to drive your fashion choices, then, or. Yes, because I could believe that. I mean, that's how a lot of the greatest stuff happens, right? That's how a lot of the greatest things happen. People dream dreams. Yeah, you're right. Some stupid shit happens as well. Yeah. Yeah. Like my beard. Come on. I think I just. I'd had it for nearly ten years, and I thought I feel like I'll do something different. I might.

Did you have the same beard for ten years? Well, it got really long, didn't it? Did you trim it? Yeah. Yeah. Because it grew right down to the bottom of my sternum. Gandalf blonde. Yeah. And then it just got. It got shorter and shorter. Let's not talk about it. We're not here to talk about the beard. Well, no, the beard's a bizarre. Okay. Did you. Was your beard longer? It's been longer, yeah. Is it, like, annoying when it's long?

Well, I tell you, I mean, probably, you know, because you train with other people with beards, but it's annoying to train with people with long beards. People used to moan in training all the time, I can't get you lapel. Can't get lapel without pulling your beard. I used to tie it up into a bun. I used to tie it up into a bun when it was really long. Also, it was a pain because I. Get coins of fashion choice. Yeah, you just was a fashion. The beard bun was a fashion choice. Come on, man.

No, no, because when I wasn't at Jiu jitsu, it was down. But it's quite gone beard. But he also used to get caught in zips life. I was zipping the top up his. Fuck, you got those things as well. With a mustache especially, you're drinking like a cam and one of the hairs gets trapped. You're drinking a can in the metal thing. It's so painful. It's worse than being kicked to the balls. I'm not. If ever I shave, get clean shave, it's going to be because of. Because of cans and my beard.

Get my mustache leave stuck in the can. It's so weird. Have you ever had it? So you're drinking a can of coke or whatever caught in the pinch of the metal between the can opener and you pull it away because you don't know it's going there. You pull it away and you go, yeah. Do you know, Gosha was very natural. I got her some glasses. It's a really nice frame. I really like it. She doesn't like it, but it's got like a little metal kind of where the joint is.

And she keeps getting like a hair stuck in there. So then every time she takes it off and she's getting like a bald patch, like a little 50 piece. But your head hair is not as bad pulling it out as a tash or a nose hair. You think a nose hair, if you pulled an ear hair out, you go, oh, I don't bother. And then if you stuck your dick in the can and you got, like, a pube stuck in there, I think. I could take a pube. Yeah. Over tash? Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

One thing I think we need to be careful of today, because we all love to fucking talk. Even whispers next to me is that I've got to be really conscious of letting people finish what they're saying and. Not jumping in, because, well, that's a you problem. It is a me problem, but it's a him problem. I'm just as bad. You're slightly better. Yeah, I'm just fine. Because every time I listen to one of our podcasts or your pockets, I'm, like, fucking up. We don't stop fucking talking.

And then we're like. Because we're so excited to get our point in. It's like, two. That's the problem. It's like, literally time we try and be good. We should have, like, a little. Do you remember breaking bad? Seem pretty. It was in our top ten, wasn't it? Yeah. You know, so, you know, at the beginning, maybe episode one, episode two, when they have the family discussion and you can only talk when you're holding the cushion. Pass the cushion around. That's a very woman thing, though, right?

I think that's the whole fix the problem, but, yeah, emasculation of men. I'm definitely gonna be aware of it. Cause whispers here, if I talk over. How can be a thing now, by the way? Whispers? No, no. It's literally just coming to my brain because you're like, what's that, Mamba? Well, it's mumbles or whispers. You can't have both. Whispers is. Mumbles is a bit played out. Right. I think I'll. Bugsy Malone kind of. Is it? Yeah, it's like old whispers I haven't heard before.

Oh, it's just, again, probably reasonable nickname. Yeah. I'm gonna cough a lot as well, by the way. Okay, Coffman, so what have you got? You've had a bad throat for six months, I think. Six months? But it's quite a while. Yeah. Chest infection. Had pneumonia as well, which was nice, which I didn't know about until I went to hospital. And then just different antibiotics and stuff. And it's kind of come back and. You know why, right? You listen to.

You listen to my podcast, the ones where I've been booted off of YouTube. Just. Just a circle back. Why? Why have you been kicked off YouTube? Well, they don't tell you, but it's. Quite hard to get kicked off YouTube, I think, isn't it? It's not that hard. It must be the topics. Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's probably, it's either. Well, it's probably the vaccine stuff. I mean, I can't think of anything else.

There's been like, bit of cannabis stuff and mushrooms and things, but I mean, there's loads of that content on people doing ayahuasca channels and stuff. Whereas if you go and try and find a lot of anti COVID vaccine stuff on YouTube, you'll find not very much. So it's probably that. Did you not just have like one or two videos at first were removed or did they just go boom? No. So it was, it was weird because I had, I had one right at the beginning.

So Rob, who was on talking about cannabis and the cancer guy. Exactly. And he said to me, this is going to get removed from YouTube. And I said, no, it's not. Don't be stupid. And then like a week later, it just, that video got taken down. It says, you, like, breached community guidelines, you're frozen for a week, whatever. Then you can, you know, pesky, no evidence to support your argument kind of shit.

They don't, you know, they don't go into details, but they just said, like, yeah, that's a strike. Like one community strike or whatever. Okay. And then, and then nothing for two years. And it's, it's a bit annoying because the YouTube was. Definitely had the most engagement. Yeah, that was about two thirds of all the views was through YouTube. And then everything else combined was about a third.

And then normally, like, when I'm editing or I'm working, it's open on a second screen and, you know, I'm just refreshing it every, like, when you would check your twitter, I'm just, did anyone else watch an episode? Let me just refresh it. I refreshed it and it just said, like, your channel doesn't exist anymore. Well, so start a new channel. You're pissed off now, so you don't want to. I mean, because all your old subscribers would just resubscribe, wouldn't they?

Yeah, they, they probably would. But then. So the thing is, so that, so the channel get taken down, right? It just says, your channel is gone. You can appeal it. Click, follow this link, whatever. So I did a little thing saying, you know, could you tell me, like, why I'm happy to remove whatever is the content that you don't like, blah, blah, blah. 20 minutes later, just get an auto one back saying your channel is permanently deleted.

We know this can be upsetting, whatever, but go fuck yourself. And that was it. Your future of David. The strange thing was that the probably, like, the five or six or seven episodes that I had released was like arm wrestling strength and conditioning. Like, nothing weird. It was not long after our top ten. Yeah, exactly. Video movies. And just. There was no. There was no Covid stuff at all for a couple of months. So I can.

I can only think either someone watched an episode, then just did a complaint, which is a possible. No, I doubt it could have been some random person. They just keep sort of updating their algorithms and then constantly scraping everything just to refine the content. And in another run through my channel, and they were like, oh, we don't like that. We don't like that. And just done. But, yeah, if Elon musk buys it, you'd be fine. Yes, I must have. And you can do. Can you post it on x?

I don't know X because I don't use. You could. You can post videos, but you can't kind of like bank them on a channel, if that makes sense. Right. So you can kind of post stuff up and people will see it because you've just posted it. Like, I listen to it now on Spotify. Yeah, actually I'll probably listen to on Spotify anyway. Unless I was stopped for a while. Not watch the YouTube. Yeah. Because for some reason I like to see the person talking. Yeah. Can you.

You can watch video on Spotify as well because like Joe Rogan and others have. Yeah. And Jocko Willick. Yeah, but they've got a separate server. So then I have to upload everything again, the videos in another format. Right. So. And I'm not sure how to sync them with the audio or whether it's completely separate. Because. Because with the audio stuff, I upload it to the hosting. My hosting platform, which I pay for. And they just send like a pointer to everywhere else.

So like Apple or Spotify, Amazon or whatever. When you. So when you watch on Spotify, it's not on Spotify server. It's on. It's on my hosting, guys. So, okay. They just point you there. But to upload video, you have to actually upload it onto Spotify separately. Right. I'm not sure whether you have to pay for it because before everyone was watching it on YouTube anyway. Yeah. And then once the YouTube got killed, I was like, fuck this. I'm just gonna just get people in.

I want to talk to post this shit up if people want to listen to it or listen to if they don't, I think I've. Think I've talked myself out of. I'm gonna be the next Joe Rogan. Talk to people I want to talk to is what it is. So I might get around to doing another YouTube, but would you like me. And Ben to do YouTube for you? You can do that? Not really. I mean, there are other people who could offer who I would say, yes, we'd be great. Probably YouTube. No. Why? Well, you just said you don't do.

You can't be bothered to do any social media. I would for this. What would you do? I would break my own personal rules for this. I don't know. Just. I would. The possibilities are endless. Would be brilliant. You're not allowed to watch it, though. That's fine. Okay. I watched them on five questions, all the complaints. But you can't watch the content. Yeah. I mean, yeah. If anyone wants to make a YouTube channel and upload all my videos and let me know, that's no problem.

Yes. I don't even know what today's topic is. I think the last time Ed was on, he said. Well, I think you. Said something about Alan Partridge. No, what? Oh, yeah, that's something we. Oh, yeah, that's something we had. You know what I miss now? Like, nobody gets the references. This is what I said in the podcast. Really pisses me off. So I said, I got to try and remember two thoughts at the same time. We were in class one time, and you did.

You had an Alan Partridge quote, and I laughed and added onto it, and you went, he gets it. He gets. You kind of stopped the class because. You were like, he gets here. He gets the reference. Yes. Helen Parche. Nobody else did. So when you make a funny joke and it's wasted. First one is really hilarious, as well. Yeah. It was one of my favorite friends episodes. Do you remember the one where Chandler, they bet him, or he had some agreement that he wouldn't do any sarcasm for, like, a week.

People were then making all these jokes which were like, yeah, yeah, it's a shame. It's a shame when you have such good ones. And before I forget what it was, we did our top ten films, and at the end of it, I started asking you why you believed in conspiracy theories, but it wasn't really about that. And we went, afterwards, we'll do a podcast at a later date about conspiracy theories.

And then I think, because he may mention, I want to do something with Ben, we were like, well, let's do it all on conspiracies. I remember one. That's maybe the third one or ten minutes. I gave you ten minutes at the beginning to come into it, and they were like, you know, I've changed my mind. Let's just talk about something. A two parter or something, because I think there's so much we're consider the. First one, like evidence gathering, just to kind of see the.

The boundaries and parameters of your conspiracy theory brain. The evidence gathering. We can start with your voice and your recurrent chest infection that you can't get rid of. I'm gonna be diagnosed now. Okay. Is this Covid or is it the vaccine? Or it's a vaccine that did. It fucks your immune system. So I wouldn't have. Wouldn't get sick if it wasn't the vaccine? Yeah. How did people get sick before the vaccine came about?

Did you get sick before the vaccine came out that you couldn't get with chest infections? Quite a lot. Yeah. Yeah. So I think the main issue I find with conspiracy theory people is this idea of correlation causation. It's. This tends to be what it comes down to. But anyway, I feel like I'm taking the word on this now. What I want to do is start at the beginning.

I remember in a previous podcast you said you weren't into conspiracy, particularly, and your mum was sending you flat earth stuff, and you're like, what the fuck is this? But something must have happened. And what I might find, it was. On a high shelf for heavy tin, and I was reaching for the.

But what I found with my friends, because I've got quite a lot of friends that are into conspiracies, and I love conspiracies, and I was more into them when I was younger, is that when you open the door to one, it tends to lead on to more and more and more and more. So I'm intrigued to. To find out why, whether that was the first one and then why you feel like it led into them.

Looking at this and looking at it going, oh, there's an enemy there, or there's something in the shadows or that looks fake or starting point. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's what you want. I don't want to know all the conspiracies. I want to know Bill Gates is a lizard, all the shit. But by the end of it, I want a list of theories. There must be some. Don't. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, sorry. Mum sends you something. So I tell you, I'll tell you where I started from.

I started from, like, believing everything that's in the newspaper and on the news, like pretty much most people do, you know, you just grow up, your parents voted labor. Yeah. Yeah. You need to go and vote at the elections and whatever. And just like normal. Normal. And then 911 happened, okay? And I was working in London, I just shot the opticians. And I. It was already kind of going a bit downhill and then that just fucking killed it.

And. And I remember being at home and having this conversation with my mum, and my mum was still totally a normie at that point. So this was like 2001? Yeah, something like that. Is Normie like a used home within the community or is it? Yeah, yeah. Like a non conspiracy person. So a normal person? Yeah. So you're like muggles in Harry my sheep. Sheeple. Like sheeple kind of people. Kind of. Okay. Yeah. But normies is less. Never heard of rogatory normies I've heard. Because you're not.

Because you're a sheep. Well, I might put your. Have you got your yellow badge? No. So 911 happened and I was like, we need to fucking bomb the fuck out of the Iraqis, these motherfuckers. We need to murder the whole fucking country. And my mum was saying to me, look, you know, we don't really know exactly what is going on. I was like, fuck them. I'd rather kill the whole country than one person that I know gets blown up by an airplane and blah, blah, blah.

And I was, in my mind, I was adamant, we need to go to war and we need to just nuke those motherfuckers. And then, you know, over the next few years and whatever, it's kind of transpired, it had absolutely nothing to do with them at all. They didn't have weapons of mass destruction anyway. Osama bin Laden, if we believe he's the guy who did it. Fucking. Nothing to do with Iraq. No, of course not. It is from the Saudis. Right. It was just completely.

They just wanted to go into Iraq and blow it up. And wasn't it the 911? Wasn't. That was the invasion of Afghanistan? Not Iraq, though. No, Iraq. Iraq. Gulf war one. Yeah, but that was. That was post. That was. That was kind of pre 911, though. Yeah. Then Gulf war two. Yeah, but I'm sure that was pre. No, Gulf war two was like 2003 or four. Yeah. So it was. The invasion of Afghanistan came as a direct. Afghanistan happened first. Yeah. Because of.

They believed Osama bin Laden was hiding in Afghanistan. The Taliban was there. Yeah, right. Except that Osama bin Laden was. And the whole family was evacuated out of the US the day after 911. During a no fly zone. The only commercial flights that flew was to. To take their whole family out of America. And he apparently was on dialysis, so he ain't hiding in a fucking cave. Was a solid. He was taken out of the UK. His whole family was in the US. The whole family was this.

Is this public knowledge or is this, like, if I google this now? No, you won't find it if you go on another search engine that's not Google. If you go on X. Twitter. So a non normie search engine. A non controlled search engine. What would a non normie search engine be? What's the main one? Go use Twitter. Twitter is fairly open now. Seems to be, yeah, a little bit. So, so. But anyway, to finish the question. So I was, in my mind, I was like, they're the enemy. We should bomb them.

I don't care if they all die. You know, they're threatening our way of life. And then after a while, I realized that's kind of not true at all. And I have this knee jerk reaction, which is rather them than us and da da da da da. So that already started to just get me thinking of, like, am I. Am I just. Is someone just pushing my buttons? Do they just know how to manipulate me by putting stuff in the media? And then I respond to it and then I support whatever's the current thing.

But it still wasn't really, like a conscious thing. But at that time. At that time, I mean, that was a conspiracy. They didn't have weapons of mass destruction and documents were forged by, you know, CIA, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But they. But I. So. But that had proper investigation, proper journalism. So a lot of people at that time, not just you, it wasn't like we were all like, oh, yeah, they're the bad guys. They've got weapons.

I think a lot of people were like, is this the secure oil? There's lots of people in protest. But the point is, I myself had this, like, gut reaction of, like. So you felt manipulated? Well, I just realized, like, like, why did I respond like that? But it was still. It wasn't like I was spending all day thinking about it, but it was starting to percolate in the back of my head, like, am I. Am I just being pushed around by smart people?

And then do you remember that Joseph Kony with the child soldiers, the jacking. In San Diego thing? That was the. That was the thing that woke me up because there was this thing, I think it was Kony 2010, or there was some. Yes. Viral social media campaign with this african warlord guy called Joseph Kony I think who had all these child soldiers and you know like Congo. The guy that, the guy that kind of was heading this and stuff.

Didn't he in the end lose his mind and get found wanking off and on the streets of San Diego naked? That's. Yes, that's the guy. Yeah. Yeah. So there was this thing and again I was like man, I donated money. We need to get rid of this guy. This is horrendous. They're cutting people's arms off kids. Child soldiers were this guy Joseph Kony.

It turned out he died like 20 years before there was some crazy american dude who was just bored and decided I'm going to see if I can start a viral social media campaign. And again I got like completely sucked into it and it turned out really bizarre like Ed said, turned out that he complete because it really went worldwide.

He completely lost his mind and got sectioned and then I kind of realized from that point like I don't think I'd totally crystallized it but the, the process was, was happening of like everything is a lie. Everything is a lie. That's where I struggle because and then. I, and then I work my way backwards from there. Oh, okay. Okay. Like I just, if I hear something I go that's not true because as.

You know I'm a big history nerd and I can see how much governments have used propaganda during war and after war to say hey, we were the good guys, they were the bad guys. And justify they always say, don't they? History is written by the victors. So I've been aware for a good 2030 years that the powers, governments, ruling dynasties will manipulate their public.

But even with that knowledge I don't see a conspiracy behind, you know, every corner and I know a lot of people, I think you included that just there's so many, they believe so many. Like you know, from like 5g having micro tip sorry about the coronavirus having five g micro tips. That is not a consumer tiny micro. Dates just, just incidentally so in the vaccine the normie search engines still say that Joseph Kony is alive and settled in Saddam. So that's another one that's quite interesting.

Joseph Kony down there's a lot and there's a lot of misinformation but we grew up in all of us. I think even young Ed, we grew up with. Ben. Ben and I would be like brothers and Ed's like an uncle. Yeah, you're like my older brother actually. How old are you, Ed? 40. Yeah. 41 next month. So I'm 47, but I'm nearly 40. Yeah, and I'm nearly 52, Ben. I'm a mature adult. But we grew up with legacy media, didn't we? We only had a few news channels. It wasn't twenty four seven.

I wasn't the sort of person that read newspapers, but newspapers are written to be sold to make money. So now there's so much more access to information because of social media and the Internet that I don't think people know what to trust. And therefore, I hear the most bizarre. I had friends during the pandemic saying that 5G was making people sick. So people were going to hospitals and they were giving them the virus with an injection.

So this guy, this preacher, was saying, don't go to hospital. If you feel sick, it's because of the 5g masks. Don't go to hospital because that's where they're giving you the coronavirus. And you're like, okay, the thing is, I think. I think you can. You can have a, let's say a nefarious plan happening, which doesn't necessarily mean that everything everyone says about it is true. Well, it can't be, can it? Conspiracy theories breed conspiracy theories. I mean, if you take the.

If you take, like, the COVID and the vaccines and all this stuff as a. As a. Like a. The one of the most current examples of what's going on, you. And again, you will. You will find much less of it. Now, if you do a search, but there's still. You can find plenty of it. You can find hours and hours and hours of experts, pundits, media people, politicians saying the vaccine is safe and effective. The current science is unarguable. It is not safe and is not effective. So just.

But just specifically on that. On the linguistics. Okay, it's not safe. It was never tested for safety. The tests that they did do showed it was very, very unsafe, and it was never tested for efficacy. And when they started testing it, they found that it wasn't effective at all. So we were never told, we think it's safe and we think it's effective or it could be safe and it's probably affected. We were told, the science is settled, it's safe and it's effective, and it is neither. That is a fact.

So that being the most recent example that we have that we all lived through the last four years or whatever, I. It just reinforced for me that I think it's a much safer thought process to just go, I don't believe that. Let me work my way backwards and see if I can find supporting evidence that actually does fit in with what you're saying. Because otherwise I think you're just trying to manipulate me to do something which is against my best interest.

So you're saying you start with I don't believe it. I think where this is going to come on Stoke with pretty much every single one of these things is. So when you say the current evidence is very clear, that it is dangerous and it's inefficient, what is the current evidence that you're citing? So you can start with, I guess the one that nobody will debate, which is that AZ jab has been pulled, right? That AstraZeneca has been banned everywhere.

Every government around the world has said, no, we can't do. It causes blood clots. And AstraZeneca is like the little company, the kind of whipping boy that everyone was like, oh, we'll just, we'll bin that one off, but we'll keep Pfizer and Moderna going. If you look at the government data, so you can go and look at the UK gov or dot gov or whatever it is the same for the us data, the same in the, in the EU, all the countries that keep their, their medical data.

If you go and look at the numbers of a and e visits, the, the recent data that I saw just the other day was a and e visits in the UK that are over 4 hours long, which is considered if you're in a. Any more than 4 hours, it's a, it's a serious visit. Like once you, once you get triage. I was gonna say once you get. Once. Once they take you in a cubicle, if you're there for more than 4 hours, it's considered like a serious visit. It's less than 4 hours.

It could just be that you banged your head and they want to wait, see whether your headache goes or something. But that number is up by like eight x, something like that from, from 2021 numbers.

But just going back to like UK gov data, us data, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, all the western, in inverted commas, countries that had heavily vaccinated populations, the excess death rate, the heart attack, stroke, blood clot, myocarditis, cancer, aggressive cancers, etcetera, rates are through the roof. They're ten to 20 to 30 to 50 times higher than they were pre vaccinations.

And in the populations where they didn't vaccinate heavily, either because they couldn't afford it, or they weren't given vaccines or people didn't take them, you don't see that data. Could we say that in these areas, that you're saying that they weren't vaccinated due to financial reasons, all this kind of stuff. Can you say potentially their kind of numbers and their kind of data collection, their data keeping was inefficient as well?

You could, because we're talking about potentially the numbers in a kind of a developed country, in a rich country, their numbers are going to be kept a lot better. It's going to be much more accurate. You could, but you. So it's the quality of the data as well. Yeah, but the quality of the data wouldn't necessarily change pre 2021 to post 2021, if that makes sense. So if you're, let's say we talk about Zimbabwe, probably they don't collect data very well, let's just say. But they're not.

I doubt whether they're collecting it significantly worse in the last three years than they were in the previous ten years. It probably trends to be very slightly better over time, because everywhere gets probably slightly better data collection over time. So you would still expect to see if there was a statistically significant change, you'd still expect to see it whether you've got good data collection or bad data collection, because that's a stable.

The term statistically significant is another one that, again, when I look at the data, because this is the thing, there can be numbers going up and down, but there's something to be statistically significant that means a certain thing. You have to be running certain statistics to see whether there is significance in the data. So I think a lot of people will use the term significant or statistically significant gets banded around. It is to a specific kind of confidence level to a p value, right?

Yeah, absolutely. And again, you have to see how the statistics are run and all this kind of stuff because there's a massive clusterfuck at the minute within the science community, this whole replication crisis, because everyone fucked up the statistics because they weren't kind of running like a gaussian kind of approach to it.

But to backstep one pace, let's say, even if we accept the confusion of data collection, and maybe it's done differently now than it was, and looking at the numbers differently, all of that sort of stuff, if you have a global pandemic, which apparently we had, the accepted science, which again, I think is bullshit, but the accepted science, what do you. Mean by the accepted science is bullshit in what way? Accepted science always changes. Accepted science.

You know, 100 years ago, as if people were depressed, you drill a hole in their head. Absolutely. Because we find more things out, we progress. So where people say gaussian, I meant bayesian, by the way, like we're a priori information. Sorry, carry on. That's not. Yeah, but. But you, Professor Whispers, you would. I was like, that's the wrong fucking word. I mean, so completely different. I sound like an idiot. You. You would expect that post pandemic, you would have a drop in excess deaths.

And from COVID Post Covid, but from COVID because the pandemic gets rid of all the weak and frail people in a more significant quantity than you normally would expect. So generally what you see after a pandemic is all your excess mortality and stuff goes down for a couple of years because everyone who was 80 to 100 who had severe diabetes, really a big. Yeah, they all die. Makes sense. So you should get a drop. Now, you could argue again that the data is not collected properly.

We couldn't collect it well during COVID because of. Everything was chaos, whatever. But you shouldn't see an increase. It could be stable, it should go down, but if it goes up, that's crazy. And the thing again that a lot of people will kind of. They have this cognitive dissonance for, is professional athletes collapsing and dying on the field in inverted commas. Footballers, american football, tennis players, basketball, etcetera, hundreds of them. I think.

I think higher than it was like in the eighties, just to finish my. Just the point that. Do you remember seeing it in the eighties? Yeah, in the nineties, yeah. Footballers, yeah. How many? I was watching something the other day and they were talking about a guy that. And I was like, oh, I remember hearing it on the news. Tennis, football. That's something else. That's something I'll give you. I think. Yeah, there has been.

And I don't think that's down to particularly more media coverage of the sports. There does seem to be a higher occurrence of these healthies. But the problem is you're attributing this down to a vaccine. Couldn't we just attribute this down to the fact that Covid has been a horrific illness and has led to long term illnesses in people? Because. Because, you know, all these people that clapped were vaccinated because. Well, professional athletes. Yeah. Because they all necessarily.

They were, they were heavily. Djokovic refused to. Sorry, no, vax Djokovic. And he hasn't collapsed yet. Oh, they proves. That's one person. That's a banging sample. They've had a couple of tennis players that have collapsed, but I think, you. Know, they were vaccinated though. But this is. Unless you know that the people collapsing are vaccinated, you can't use this as evidence. No, but what. Because it's just a trend and you have no causation for the trend.

So I agree with what you're saying and I don't dispute what you're saying, but the data that's available shows that in populations where they didn't vaccinate heavily, they don't see this. They do not have the increased mortality rates. They still had. Covid still went around, but they just didn't have the vaccines. My cousin in South Africa is a retired cardiologist. He's a, he's a very eminent. We're not blood relations. So he's very successful. Now. Yeah. He's a retired cardiologist.

He's, he was at Nelson Mandela's wedding. He's. He knows everybody in South Africa. He says to me, we don't have any problems at the moment because they didn't give us any vaccines. The thing is, the whole of Africa. They said, you're too poor, we're not selling you vaccines. We hear now that athletes are dying because it's current and we're thinking, oh, there's a link to the vaccine. But I only.

Going back to what I was saying, when a football player died, you'd hear it in the news because it was national news, because he was only like 22 something with his heart. He died. They were. There weren't that many. I mean, like, they're probably. And now there's loads. No, but if I was to like, go back through google it, maybe there was some ten. Maybe there was ten in a decade, but they may have also. There may have been ten in Argentina, there may have been ten in Brazil.

They may have been trying. Another Bolton player. I'm trying to get. There's two or three that I can't remember. One is going to come out. Vivian Foghorne, who played for West Ham, he collapsed in the early thirties and died of a heart attack. There was another one who was at Bolton. He was an Arsenal young player, youth player. He had a cardiac issue as well. This is all pre, pre pandemic and there was a few others as well, so it's not like it's never happened.

But the number post are starting, but. Post, we're hearing about it worldwide rather than nationally. We're hearing about, oh, american football had collapsed or this tennis player collapsed. So now you're seeing patterns. You're going, oh, there's loads of people. Dropping, you're primed to be paying attention to this now as previously, it didn't make the. Again, the football ones.

I know because I follow football and stuff, but it probably happened in a lot of the sports that I know about now post pandemic that has happened. But previously I didn't because I don't follow those sports. And there wasn't that link to make it a bigger story. Yeah, I will. I will not obviously claim that that is definitely not true. It's possible, but I don't think it's true. So the next one just around that. They put defibrillators in schools now. Did you have a defibrillator in your school?

Not in the eighties. You remember any kids that had heart attacks when you were at school? No. No. Did anyone you ever knew who was a kid? Okay, okay, okay. But that. That. So if we're saying it's definitely. I'm not saying anything. I'm just saying they now put defibrillators in. Nothing else in the world has changed since then as it is to now. We can say it's that, but so many other things are a play. There's so many variables at play. Diethyde, process, food, all this kind of stuff as well.

I'm not saying. I mean, I think it is down to the vaccine, but I'm not saying it's down to the vaccine. I'm simply saying. Do we all agree that when we were at school, no defibrillators and you don't know any kids that had Artax? I'd certainly. No, I didn't know any kids had heart attacks. But back. Back in. Back in the day, like the size of a defibrillator and the cost and all this kind of stuff, it wouldn't have been available for the schools. Whereas now, 20, they didn't have them in school.

And again, it could coincidentally be that that's the around this time. Books. I feel the problem is anything that's changed in the world pre and post pandemic, it automatically has to be pandemic. But Jace, we had them when I was a PT, we had them in the gyms. But I bet you they didn't have in the gyms in like 2000 or they wouldn't now. They're all there now. They're portable. Yeah. And they're very to use. And they're everywhere affordable. And it's great.

I think they're generally the old phone boxes. Apparently a lot of the old phone boxes, which is great. Why not do that? But did heart disease not exist before the pandemic. These things were all pre pandemic, a lot. These. I'd have to ask my missus, actually. Whether something like that as well, we don't know. The planning for these defibrillators in schools didn't start happening around 2015. And they were discussing it and how can we get these in schools? How can we do this?

But that isn't something that's the opposing side of the argument that people aren't going to look into. Could be because it doesn't really fit. The narrative and the rhetoric. And so this is the thing. I mean, how much time should you spend, or would you want to spend on digging into every single detail? For me personally, as soon as I've got enough evidence in inverted commas for me to make a decision that's right for me, I don't need anything else.

I don't need to spend months and weeks and compiling data and whatever. I've seen enough stuff. And the other thing, which maybe we've spoken about before through my work, I've seen, personally, high, tens to low, hundreds of patients now that have had weird shit that I cannot say is down to the vaccine, because I'm not a doctor, but I always ask them, are you vaccinated? And they always say, yes.

These people that have had weird shit, and I always ask them, when you went into the hospital, when you went to the doctor, did they know what caused it? No, this is. I've had the same conversation easily, easily a hundred times now. Neurological stuff, blood clots, heart attacks, amputated limbs, strokes. Fucking crazy shit. And people who. Patients that I've seen over a number of years, and then I see the name and I think, oh, yeah, you know, Doris Nurburgring? Like, I remember that name.

You know what I mean? Sometimes if I see John Smith, I'm like, I can't remember. I seen a hundred. You know, there's people where it's a weird name or there was something. And I'm like, I remember her. Yeah. Then she cut. Yeah, seven minutes and 12 seconds. But I mean, I don't. I don't remember her coming with a walking stick. I don't dispute what you're saying. But again, it comes back to humans. I saw this thing. No, I was listening to this thing on the radio years ago where it was about.

They'd have guests and they were like, what makes humans different from other animals? And why have we been successful? And part of it is pattern recognition. And we like patterns. And we love patterns. We love stories. We tell stories. We build a story of the world we see every day. And I used to see patterns and go, oh, this happened and this happened. And I'd believe that my mind would go, this is your. This is your story for this situation that keeps happening on Friday the 13th.

Every bloody time, something always bad happens. Throughout my childhood, I was convinced Friday the 13th was really bad. I was born on 13th, you see, so anytime I had a birthday, something would go wrong. And I go, well, fucking Friday the 13th. I was super superstitious, super superstitious. Say that three times. But I've tried to. When I see patterns now, go, is it just. Am I making this a pattern? Is it a coincidence?

And sometimes I have to unpick it and go, no, you're seeing a pattern, but there isn't a pattern. Now you're seeing a lot of people and they're saying, basically, I've had vaccine injury. No, they're not. They don't. You're making that connection. I don't know anyone. I don't know anyone. So I'm making a connection of. I don't know anyone that's been harmed. Most of my. Subjective kind of view is not affected. I was saying people aren't injured by the vaccine. It's just I haven't encountered.

So I'm open. I've seen videos of people who are claiming that they've been injured and they look and they're really angry and they're upset and I don't know if they are or not. So I kind of go, just because my anecdotal evidence is saying, I don't know anyone that's died. I don't know anyone that died from COVID and I don't know anyone that was injured from COVID So. But that's just my. You're aware that your anecdotal evidence is not reliable. Yes, that's the. That's the thing.

Yeah. And I'm the same with it. I used to be the opposite. I'm not going to fall back on. Oh, well, I've seen this, I've seen that. And this is the evidence because I know that it's my. It's my perception of something at a certain time, given my beliefs, my biases. So I know that it's unreliable. I know my memory is unreliable in that sense as well. Yeah. So I know I cannot rely on that as evidence because, like, how I consciously perceive something may not be the same way someone else does.

And this, again, it comes down to the point you were making. It's almost like once you see a pattern, you almost fall into this idea of confirmation bias. And you're searching for this whenever you've got, for instance, when you get a new car, if you get a Ford Focus, like a blue Ford Focus. I got a Ford Focus. I don't remember ever seeing Ford focuses. All of a sudden, every car was a fucking Ford focus.

Now, I don't think the number of cars have increased, but my recognition system, in a way, is now primed to see these things. Yeah, for sure. This is where the danger of it is when it comes to this anecdotal. Your attention has almost been kind of like a spotlight shone on this area and you are actively searching for this. Yeah, I would say my bias is even.

Is even worse than that because my position always was right from really early on that the vaccines are poisonous and they're going to kill people. So I'm actually looking for it. I'm not even. Oh, I'm just seeing it because I'm aware I want to be proven. Right. Yeah. So just out of interest, have you. I'm aware of that. When you do research and stuff and you looking for the evidence and stuff, have you ever kind of flipped it and actively looked to prove a counter argument?

Because that's what I find interesting. I think this is really important. Anyone who kind of claims to be a critical thinker, I think this is really important because I always try to this myself.

If I start to believe something, like, again with the whole ecological approach stuff, which incidentally has just been clusterfucked by everybody, and I'm going in a different way because I'm a hipster, for instance, that when I started to get into that and believe in it, I then actively switched and I tried to disprove myself. I tried to look at the counterarguments and things as well.

Cause at one point I could see myself getting led very, very easily down this route, and I felt that kind of confirmation bias. So I actively tried to prove a counter argument to prove myself wrong. Have you ever tried that as an exercise at all? I wouldn't say that I have tried to prove it wrong, but I have had this, literally, this conversation with 25 people, smart people, people who I respect, people who I consider friends, people who are educated.

I've got friends who are in investment banking who are very smart, who. Criminals. That's fine. But the educated ones. Yeah, no, no, but, you know, they tell me, like, this is not data, this is just your opinion and blah, blah, blah, blah. So I absolutely can see the flaws in my personality type in the way that I interpret my experience. And in my. It's not even unconscious bias in my fucking really conscious bias that I want to be proven right.

So I want to see the pattern that I'm looking for that proves that what I said was. But I take all of that into account. I totally hear what you're saying, but I shouldn't. Ben, have you got the cushion? I always used to want to be right. I always used. I come from a family of lawyers and teachers and criminals as well, so we used to debate and argue all the time. And I always wanted to be right. And I hated being wrong. And was there quite a lot of you? But I was very rarely on you.

Consider it a masturbate. I was. I would say me and my family did masturbate a lot in front of each other. The animals were always watching. A good point. You want to be right. But now I like it if my belief shifts and I quite. And I do, what I think you do is if I feel like I have the truth, which this is all about, truth, really drilling down to the truth, which is subjective, I now listen to opposing arguments.

So I'll watch stuff on flat earth to see if it can convince me I'm not always like, I'm right. They're complete idiots. I want something to be really convincing to make me question it. I listen to. Sometimes I listen to people, like far right people or people influencers, when you. Say far right, because that's a whole nother. Controversial figure like Jordan Peterson, who I have listen to him many times, podcast, who's a psychology professor. And I've got his book.

Yeah, he's out of his lane a lot and claims shit that he doesn't know much about. And I've got his books. So I listen to counter arguments and I try and try and question my own. What I think is the truth is. But it sounds like you just say like, I want to be right. I want to be right. You know what I find? I. I have a problem with that. Sorry. I don't mind being wrong. Have a question? No, I just. No, no. Jump in. Do you know what I find is a big issue nowadays?

It's this idea that if somebody kind of changes their mind, they're weak. Who you're Mike in? Let me bring it to. Well, no, if somebody changes their mind, they're seen as losing or they're seen as weak, you almost have to double that. Now, if somebody changes their mind in the face of significant evidence, I consider that a sign of high intelligence. If they double down and they live with this kind of cognitive dissonance, I think there's a problem.

I don't have somebody changing their mind and changing their opinion. I see it as a positive. Are you about to admit the vaccines are poisonous? No, I'm not, because I'm yet to see evidence that would convince me otherwise. Now, if I did, I'm confident that I would switch. And I've done this on many, many times. I know an example when you did change. What I just say before I go on to that is when we see politicians, when we see politicians that double down on shit and then it.

Then it's proven through journalism and whatever, that's false. They then look like dicks because they still don't admit. Anyway, get back to you. There was a time when you were teaching no gear mill Hill, and you'd kind of dismissed Lachlan Giles and his backside 50 50 and Hill hooks and used to diss him and blah, blah, blah. You completely changed your mind. You went, so I was fucking. This is. This is what we're now teaching. I'm teaching this pre ADCC.

When Lachlan, one of my parents, missed, I was like. I openly said, look, look, if you. Once you clear the knee line, you're safe, like, with the leg locks. And I was confident about that. And then Lachlan and ADCC got the foot people clear the knee line. Then he was finishing and regaining the knee line. So I kind of came back and go, right, so what I've been saying for last year, just ignore that I was completely fucking wrong, because I did believe that then. I was.

I was basically presented with evidence that disprove what I was kind of saying to everybody. And I could have gone, nah, nah, Lachlan's just a flu. You could have used steroids. You could have been stubborn. It was wrong. I have. I like to admit I'm wrong. If I can be, you know, I can get better from that. Yeah, yeah. I have no issue with. I've changed my position on things, like, violently, many times in my life and just been like, no, I'm not. Not into that anymore. I'm now completely.

You said at the beginning, like, that's. How I came to. But maybe, maybe to touch on the flat earth thing, because that's always, like, the most I'll talk about. That's the one that I get. That's my comedy material. Yeah, exactly. This is the one where I get attacked or people call me fucking stupid cunt and whatever the most. Right this. This is the one. But. But don't forget, everybody, every single person who becomes a flat earther, yeah.

Starts off trying to disprove flat earth, because we all were told we're on a ball, right? Yeah. You grow up, you're on a globe and, you know, the sun, and you go around and the accepted kind of model of where we are. Everybody comes to it from that point. And I, like, exactly the same. My mum was sending me this flat earth stuff for, like, six months. I was like, I'm not gonna fucking watch videos on flat Earth. Like, what are you talking about?

And she tells me, like, that there's clones and da da, she loves everything. Anything that's a conspiracy theory, she's all over it. But I was like, I'm not watching the flat earth. This is ridiculous. And then after, like, six months, you know, I was like, let me just. It's a half an hour video, whatever. Let me just watch it. And then once I watch it, I can send something back to her saying, look, I watched it. This is fucking ridiculous, so stop sending it to me.

And I watched it and I was like, that raises some interesting points, but obviously there must be some explanations for those. Let me go and do a bit research and then I'll be able to debunk it. And then I did a bit more. And I was like, like, huh? Well, that doesn't really still explain it, but let me do a bit more. Let me do a bit more. And then the more stuff I look at, the more I'm convinced that what we are on is. Is a flat surface.

No, I'm intrigued to know what you found that switched, actually. But before I say that, yes, because I did see you post something on Facebook. You went to Ibiza recently over the. Sun and the moon, did you? Whereabouts were in Oasis. We. My brother lives there, so. Amazing. You went a few years ago. Lot. Yeah, because my brother still lives out there with his family. Yeah, we stay. Do you know, like, the north part? San Juan? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Little, tiny, little San Juan. And there's a beach right at the end called Carlos and Vincent. Yes, yes, on the beach. We stayed. No one ever goes up north. It's beautiful. It's lovely up north in that. You posted a few, and sometimes I wasn't quite getting what you said, but one of them. I did think I was. I think I did understand what you were saying. And I was thinking, oh, I can. I think I've got an answer for you. So you had the moon here, let's say. Yeah, I could see both.

And so you had the. You had the shadow of the moon this side, and you had the sun, the reflective side on this side. Yeah. And you went, look, the sun's gone down. Yeah. And I can still see it. You can still see it. Well, yeah, because the earth. You're standing on the earth and the earth's turned that way. So now the sun is hidden from you. But the sun's like 100 million mile that way, so it's still this. This has. I need more fists. So say that as the actress there. Right?

Yeah. So think of it as a torch. I've got the moon here. That's illuminated there. Yeah. You're standing on the sun. Yeah. Standing on the earth. Yeah. And it's according to the globe, it's turned. So now you can't see the sun because you were standing here. Yeah. It's turned. Yeah. So you can't see the sun, but that's still hitting the moon. It's that because you're like, why is it. Why is the shine not at this angle? Yeah. No, because these haven't moved. My knowledge of astrology shock thing.

My question more, I was just trolling because I started getting people saying, fuck you, whatever, and then someone who's been. On the podcast apologize for that. Me, a whole private message saying, look, you look really stupid. I. I consider you as a friend. You're gonna think you're an idiot. Who said that? You can cut it out. Come on, submit. And I replied, like, if you. If you know me well, you'll know I don't give a fuck what anyone. Thinks I'm trying to figure out. But anyway.

No, but the question that I was asking, this is not necessarily, like a flat earth proof, but just the question more that I was asking Washington, and I haven't even thought about it properly, so I might. I might, you know, answer my own question. But if I'm standing in Ibiza on the beach. Yeah. And the sun is there. Yes. And the moon is there. Yeah. Let's just say, for sake of argument, Melbourne is on the, you know, geographical opposite point of the globe from where I am. It might not be.

It might be South Africa or whatever, but just whatever's on the other side of the globe. Right. I've got the moon here. Yeah. And I got the sun here. Yeah. What do they see? Well, they'll still see. What. So you're. You've turned away from the sun, so you're now in darkness? No, no. It's about 04:00 in the afternoon. They'll just see the reflection of the moon. The moon is there. Yeah, they'll just see the reflection is there. They're standing on the opposite side of a ball.

Yeah. So they are the moons still in the same place? No, no, no. Think about this. This. This is the. This is the. This is the earth. Yeah. This is why we need fists. This is terrible for a podcast. I know. It is, because you've lost your YouTube now, so, like, nobody can see any. Of you anyway, so it's fine. But. So I'm standing on a. On a. On a basketball. I'm standing on the top of the basketball, right?

And then I can see in the gym ceiling, let's say a light on that side and a light on that side. If there's a. An ant that's on the underside of the basketball, what does he see? He can't see either of those two. You can't see the sun, but the moon will be about 250,000 miles that way. They're both above me. But it's. But it won't be. It's not. You can't think of it. It's above. It's just far out. 250,000 miles, yeah, but above the horizon. Above the horizon.

Depending on where the sun but where the earth is, because the moon's not always, like there. It could be different point in the. Day I'm seeing, you will see. They are above my horizon. So they are above the midpoint. Right. If you're on the bottom of a. Ball, it's so far out, you'd still see. You can't see through the ball. It doesn't matter how far it is. No, but it's not. The sun and the moon aren't above and below. One's like 98 million mile that way. I know you don't believe in space.

And 1250,000 miles away, they're not going. Down that rubber hole. It's. They're so far away. If they were really close to the earth, then you wouldn't see them because they're hidden by the other side of the earth. But they're so far away. Yeah. Can I. Can I ask one thing, though? The flat earth versus spherical earth thing. Why? Why is it important? Why? Is it because. Do you believe the people who think it's a ball really believe it's a ball?

Or do you think there's a conspiracy going on and there's something beneficial about having people believe that it's not flat? But what if you do not know where you are? Then you do not know who you are. If you do not know who you are, then you do not know what you are supposed to be doing. Who's at fault, who's done this, though. You are easy to control. So who's doing. Is this the fucking illuminati again? Those guys are bastards. Pretty much. Pretty much. I don't.

And again, I've always considered, like, why can't we find the edges? I just don't get that. Surely that would be a very easy thing to do. Just go and find the edges. Or do you believe there just, there's so much military presence stopping you from getting there? Well, there is. I mean, that's a fact. So you're not allowed even in the 15 hundreds? Even like in the 15 hundreds. So what kind of, like, what level do you have to be at to know that it was twelve?

Well, this is what I mean, the amount of people that need to be in on this. Okay, I bring you back one step. I bring you back one step to Covid. Just to try to answer that question in a roundabout way. I know you don't believe that Covid was a concern. Flat about way. Flat flat about way. But if we take the position, which I do take, that the COVID was manufactured in a lab. It was released probably on purpose. The vaccines were already pretty much developed and ready to go.

And the whole world decided at once, right? Everyone's getting vaccinated. And there was a push. We can't agree on anything, right? We want to fight Russians, we want to fight chinese people, but suddenly the whole world agrees, right? Everyone's getting vaccinated. To me, it seems like it was prepared and pre planned. They knew it was coming.

There is event 201. They were having a conference the week before COVID happened about what would happen if a airborne coronavirus went around the whole world. Bill Gates was involved. They literally would be really dumb, though. They would go to do that. Do you think that would be really dumb thing for them to do, like, because that makes it look like they're guilty. This is a no, this is a whole goes another layer deeper of if you tell people what you're going to do, you.

You take no karmic debt for it. But I'm getting almost like a hidden in plain sight. Yeah, I'm getting into the weeds. But my point being that if you take the COVID thing as I do, as it was a whole big scam to do whatever they wanted to do. With it, that's the next thing. It's why. But go on. Well, depopulation it didn't really kill that many people.

But if, if you're, if you're gonna do that, there was probably only two 3000 people who knew what was going on and everyone else just went along with it because their up chain was telling them, you're gonna fucking go on television and say this, otherwise you're gonna kill your gran and you're gonna destroy the NHS and it's all gonna be terrible. We're gonna get overwhelmed. Haven't you seen the zombie films? And then everyone just goes along with it.

So just coming back to answer that, that kind of flat earth question, the same way I think the moon landings was bullshit, is you don't actually need very many people at all. You just need people that have the money and control the media to say, this is the narrative, you know, you know, we pay you like half a million pounds a week to tell these stories. This the story you're gonna tell me. Half million pounds to lie about stuff like that? I would tell you, you would do it and everybody does.

This is how, this is how the world works, right? The question is, what currency is that money coming in? Well, US dollars for these 2000 people. Let's just say like 2000 people knew about COVID and they was all set up. All those two thousands. Are they all american? Are they british? Is Russia involved? Is China involved? Is there some super government? Is it like a super government? Or is it like the Rothschilds? The rich people.

James Bond used to come on and there was, you know, these guys who lived on an island and they german, they just. They're rich, right? Like Elon Musk, right? Is Elon Musk one of them? No, I don't think so, but it's bullshit. So he's a liar as well? Yeah, but just, just to go one step back, just to say, like with Elon, right? Would you say Elon Musk is an American? I say he's a lunatic, but he's. He'S a, he's a South African, he lives in America. You wouldn't say he's an american?

No, he's not in the same way. I mean, this is something that my friend who's an investment banker said to me. He said the thing that you notice when you talk to like, elite, wealthy people, they don't really have a nationality. You know, they've got place in Dubai, they've got a boat, they've got a place in Athens, they've got place in South America. They're here and there. They're wiping this place. Their kids go to school in Switzerland. They're not. They're not like Americans or Cypriots.

The rich have always been like that. The rich, they're globalists. Yes. Yeah, that's. But really, that globalist model could only really have existed for maybe, like, the last hundred years. I mean, even globalist is the incorrect term. Okay. Anyway. But really, before that sort of communication and transport was too slow to really have a cabal of world leaders. You have not seen like, the mud, floods, tartaria, all that stuff. Right? Giants.

Are we also assuming they were way ahead with the technology and kept it back from us? So they've had, like, the Internet since, like, 1900? Maybe not, I don't know. Three people on it. Pornhub. If there's only a thousand people. 1900. Ask yourself just in terms of, like, aircraft. Like, we. We all pretty much are from the generation. Remember the SR 71, Blackbird? Yes. Mac 3.5, whatever? Yeah. Had these panel gaps that were that big because it was expand.

And then they never made anything faster. They made that in fucking 98. Don't need to, though, because we've got satellites which you. You probably believe. So you made. So you made Capri three liter. Yeah, three liter eye in 1980. We don't need to make anything faster than that now. Yep. Look at your. More efficiency. It's hot. It's hard to. But we've never. We haven't made anything faster than SR 71, so. But the thing is, though, we. I know you don't believe in space.

I know you don't believe in space, but they was five. They were Jace, like things like the U two and that. Those planes, they were gonna fly at high altitude, fast, take pictures. We don't need that, do we? Not because we're not fighting the Russians. Anymore, because we've got satellites everywhere. Taking this picture. You need it. An aircraft that's even faster. To do that, we don't need it.

The. The story of human beings is if we can build something that's fast, that's better, we're gonna build something faster. Yeah, that's the thing. Yeah. It's about humanity, how war is. Wars of fought have changed since then. This is the thing. So this thing, the speed of the plane, isn't necessarily a critical factor in winning and losing a war now. So money has gone into things like drones and all these other things. So why plow money into it?

Apart from just hubris and just showing how fast you can make something go. That would do it. Also the planet, if it's flat. Okay, so it's flat. Flat Earth. Flat planet. Is it square? Is it circular? Is it a star shape? So no one knows. Is the. Well, some. Probably some people. Who do you think is. What do I think it is to. The shape of a pokemon? I think the most likely setup is that we are in a dish, the edge of which is Antarctica.

What we're told is the continent of Antarctica, but it's an edge rather than a continent. So if you just take your globe and unfold it as if you're looking at a map, you know, you take your. Take your globe and put it back in your book. So it goes. So you could hang it on your wall, right? So you opened it out. But then imagine you take your Antarctica, that's at the bottom, and expand it out. So it could be the edge of your map. So roughly that.

But I actually think it's quite possible that we are in a dish. Yeah. And then beyond that ice wall, there are 500 other continents, and then below. It'S turtles all the way down. No one knows because we can't go deeper than 7 miles. Why can't we go deep? In 7 miles? No one knows. Do we need to go deep? They make them out of marshmallows, and they just cannot get through granite. I don't know. See, this is the thing.

There's lots of things where you go, well, we don't need to go deeper than 7 miles. Well, maybe we don't, but we can't. Why don't you guys do it? Well, you know, but it's like the proof of the burden of proof. It's like, well, we don't need to do it, but we know we can. But you guys. Flat earthers, that could go. I'm gonna prove. No, because this comes back to exactly what Ed said. If I was getting paid half a million pound a week to lie on the news, I would do it.

If you're a millionaire and a billionaire and continuing to be a millionaire and billionaire and not get shot in the fucking ear at a rally like Trump did, you're gonna keep your mouth shut, because a, most of your peers are gonna ridicule you, and b, if there is any scintilla of truth and you start rocking the boat, guess what's gonna happen to your nice, cozy hundred million pound a year turnover company? They're going to suddenly find that, oh, you've got an accounting. Why would the global.

Like Epstein? Right? Why would the Globus want to keep. Why would they. Why would. Why would there be that threat? So. So, I mean, so they stay powerful mechanism. How do you control people in that group? That there must be a natural hierarchy within that group. Who do you think is the head honcho, the big guy? I don't know.

Do you think it'd be some random guy we've never heard of and we've potentially walked straight past him on the street, some normal guy, and he's actually the most powerful person in the world? I don't think we've walked past him. Because you wouldn't get assassinated if no one knew who the fuck he was. Yeah, I mean, I think that's. That's always kind of the. The history. Yeah. Of most hierarchies is that you don't. They have a. They have a. Like a media department, right?

You've got front facing. So the people that go in front of the cameras, but the people that own, you know, let's say, the saudi royal family. Do you know who they are? You know their names? You know what they look like? You never see. They're not constantly on, you know, the tv going, I'm so fucking rich. Look at my watches, bro. It might be in the sat in Saudi. Some of them are occasionally. But what I mean is, they. Are they. If. If you were like. I'll give you an example.

And again, this is just like an anecdotal example. I've got two. Well, there's three brothers, but two of them who are friends of mine are super, super, super wealthy. They are mechanics. They started a garage. They built a bigger garage. They built a bigger garage. They had the license to distribute Saab parts for the whole world. When, after Saab went bust, they now done some. Got a deal to do, I think Vauxhall and something else for the whole of Europe to distribute secondhand.

Super, super, super loud. I've asked them a few times to come on the podcast. Don't want to talk about anything. Don't want anyone to know who I am, what my name is, what I look like. Just happy being fucking completely. Didn't bankroll Craig Jonas, did they? No, I was just chicken. Do we know who did that? Yeah, CJI with some conspiracy theories. No, no, I'm just saying a similar kind of thing. The guy with the money is kind of like, I probably don't want to put myself out there. I'd like to.

You. You. What the flat earth boils down to them is the rich and powerful elite that control the world want us to believe it's a bull. And that is not flat. Yes, but the church also wanted us. To believe it was flat. And then church is full of pedos. I don't know. I don't know one way or the other. But they were like, nah, we think it's rambling. Galileo got like, bought a house. Rest of all his stuff was a bloody boy. Yeah, it's only like 90. Was it 92 or something?

The pope came out and goes, yeah, we fucked up. But that then changed, that changed the whole. You'd think the church, which was the most, probably the most powerful force in Europe, which was trying to suppress that it was round because everyone thought it was flat. And then over time, that evolved and then everyone went, oh, yeah, I. Oh, yeah, we think it's round. So why would they have allowed that to happen for 400 years? I don't. I don't claim to have a lot of answers.

I have a lot of questions which no one can answer. That's more where I am. Before I forget, then, what was the proof that you saw in those videos that went, it's. It's a dish. It's not. Yeah. The first minute video your mum sent. You the main things for me and this. And it's still the. The ones that stand out is flat water. The surface of a body of water at rest lies flat. You can observe it. You can measure it.

Yeah. If I ask you what shape is the top of an olympic swimming pool, I know you're going to say it's only small and the scale and the ball is huge and all you're going to say all of that stuff and it takes. You got to really chew on it to come to your own decision about it. I'm not trying to tell you what you should think. You know it's flat. When you see the truth, you know the truth, you know it's flat and.

But you're going to believe that it's not that the surface of a large body of water curves all the way around a ball and it's fucking nonsense. But what's sticking the water to the surface of the flat earth? Can we not bring us back to the human perception? There is a doubt, and the ability. To perceive is like we. Our perception isn't good enough to perceive any kind of a curb. Well, that's not true because, again, see, this is, this is kind of. And it gets, like, a bit sort of geeky.

You know, a lot more than I ever can do. I probably know a little bit more than. But, um. But, but the, the thing with. Oh, man. What was, what was going to be my point about the. Yeah, my perception and we could see optical illusions. No, hang on. That's right. So, so, and this would. This is. This would be the thing. Like ballers, right? You know, like normies. You guys are bowlers who think that you live on a ball. No way. Kind of cool, right? Pro ballistic. Are you flurifers?

Flo. Nah, that's. You see, this is. How is it? Yeah, that's cool. I don't know what you're saying. Flat earthers. Right. So what do you prefer to be referred to as? King, mayor or Lord flat Earther? Lord. Flatly. My facebook shows me two lords. Shows me. Which is. Which is actually, sorry to interrupt. Which is a really real good question. Another one? It wasn't a question. It was a nickname. Yeah, but there's actually quite a lot of them. Just think about it. How does a spirit level, how do.

They get the bubble in it? Work on a ball. How does a spirit level work on a ball? This is so tiny. It's that scale. It's just. No, no, you can't just say it's. You make a. Ydehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe. Big fuck off. Spirit level. Yeah. And then. Then come back and we'll have a conversation. Yeah. If you make it maybe 100 miles long. Yeah. Make a big spirit. Then we'll take a 5000 miles long spirit level and a one inch long spirit level.

It's the same device. Right? We do. We agree on that. There's a bubble, it's in fluid and it will find level that much. No, no, no. Don't, don't. Don't do this mental gymnastics. Do this mental spirit level works by telling you what is level. Spirit level finds level. Okay. Right. Is that could. Do we agree on that or we wouldn't agree. Approximation. It can't be perfect because again, it's not super, super accurate. It's an approximation. An approximation level to what?

Spiritually driven approximation level to what? To what you're putting on. Like if you're putting on a piece. Of ball, what am I measuring? The level of you. But you're not putting on a. Don't. You can dismiss this idea of scale perspective. This is the thing. Because it's such a huge. Let me ask you a difference. Let me ask you a question, because. I will not be perceived then. People know me. You can't perceive it. It's too big. You're only small. Whatever. Let me ask you a question.

Let me ask you a question. Let me ask you. Let me ask the question. Neither of you can answer. Okay, you can go first. NASA's globe model, which the accepted science tells us this is the curvature of Earth. Do you know what it is? What you mean do you know how big earth apparently is and what the curvature is? It's about interesting, isn't it? Like 35 km all the way around. That'S bigger than that. I mean the circumference, 35,000 km, something like that.

20, supposed to be like 24 and a half thousand miles somewhere around there. But I'll tell you the calculation for the curvature, this is what we are told is the curvature. It's eight inches per mile squared. So if you think the further you go, the sharper it's falling away from you, that makes sense. If I go a little bit away from me, there's curve is very gentle. If I go further, the curve is much harsher because it's going round the way around the ball. Right. Eight inches per mile squared.

So at 1 mile there's eight inches of curvature. Yeah. At 10 miles is ten times ten. So you square the distance as a hundred. Yeah. So 800 inches of curvature at 10 miles. Yeah. Right. I hope you're picking this up. Maybe you shouldn't zone out because this is what people do. They go, oh, it's too complicated. The only place you can see this really is at sea level because everything else is not flat. There's hills, there's trees, there's buildings.

I've seen photos and I'm sure you'll say they're fake, but I've seen pictures wherever, let's say you've got. Spirit level. Massive spirit levels staring at the sea. You can see they go off into distance. Yeah. Now there's zoom in, they come back. If you have an optical zoom, they come back. But what I was going to say, just to finish my thing, so if we go to 100 miles, we're now talking 100 times 100 and is 10,000 times eight inches.

I don't know what that is in miles, but it's a couple of miles of curvature over, over a hundred mile distance. That's what you should see. Navy, military vessels can target other vessels, submarines with their periscopes, etc. With laser sights can target vessels at 100 miles away. That's new to me because my military history say they have to factor in the curvature. That's why they fire up. I'm not talking about firing anything, I'm talking about seeing something.

I don't think you could use a. Laser at sea level, seeing a target. You can see a target at 2030, 40, 50 miles away. I've never seen. Of all the tech. I know, I know. Military ships. I've never seen that it could exist. I don't know. I've never seen. That should be impossible, as the planet. Is, or whatever they call a planet, as perfect as the planet is. Could you not test this with lasers to prove there's no curve? There's plenty of videos you can go. And find where they fail. They can't.

They can't. Mythbusters. No, I haven't seen. No, it's probably the same one I've seen. You can see the full length video where they eventually they made. What I saw was flat. Earth is trying to prove. Yeah. Then they prove there's a curve and. They couldn't get it to work. There's a whole video. There's a longer version, which there are. Resources where you can down, and that's why the water stays flat and it's not floating up in. There's an up and a down. And what.

What controls, let's say, where things lie, is the electromagnetic force. So that glues the water to the density. Yeah. So. So you could do that to a global cannabis again. So you. You can. There are. There are things. There are models, scientific, whatever. Mathematical. Physical models that work on a ball and flat. And then there's stuff that would only work on a born. And there's stuff that only flat. I'm thinking if I got a tennis ball. Yeah. And I just dipped in water.

Yeah. The water will stick to the outside of it, won't it? Uh, yes. So that's electromagnetism. No, that's. That's probably just the meniscus of. I mean, you're talking about like, like quarter of a 1oz of water stuck on a cloth. Tennis ball. Yeah. I'm saying if you got, uh. Well, you get an Olympic swimming pool. Yeah. Again, Olympic swimming pool in Australia. Yeah. Apparently it's. It's completely upside down. It's facing that way, but it's being pulled up this way by gravity.

And it's not flat, but it looks flat and it doesn't move. Even though the earth is spinning at a thousand miles an hour, the gravity is still enough to hold it on, etc, etc. Etcetera. Like, once you start actually digging into it, not even knowing the science, but just, just thinking about what if you. Did know the science? I don't know. You don't know it whispers, I definitely know it, but we don't know the science. I've gone more down. People debating it with more scientific stuff.

All I'm saying is you don't. I don't think you even have to get that far to start to see a lot of inconsistencies in the model that we are told is your australian. Swimming pool is there. Yeah. If you believe we're in. In the solar system. Yeah. That is an up or down. Is it a. Because that is down. It's down. If you're standing like these, your feet and you're in Australia, you're not down, you're. You are. You're down under.

Yeah. They are inverted compared to, like, if we could, because each other, we'd see their feet and they'd say, I tell. You what, my head was fucked up. Something stupid. I said once I was watching a Star wars film and you always see the Death Star like this, right? For you people that are listening, this is going to mean I. Any fucking sense. And the dish is here, it goes bew. And it blows up. And then I watched a newer styles film and the dish was here.

And I went, well, they almost all be standing in the Death Star upside down. Like. Are you saying the Death Star was flat? No, I'm saying it was round, but. But the bottom side. And I was like, oh, hang a minute though. It's not, is it? Because if you stand on the planet, it would. It would actually. It would appear to be the spot that we're used to seeing it. Because I was like, they built it upside down. How are they all. They were all in the desktop standing upside down.

And I was like, oh, but it's perspective, isn't it? It's perspective. And I was like, oh, so it. Does that also start, even though that's science fiction, that does start to ask those kinds of questions as well. Like, how big does the Death Star need to be before it? You would need to be upside down if you were in the lower levels and the right way up in the. Because apparently, you know, with the Death Star, it's just level 27, level 58, level. That would. That's a flat Earth model because you.

Would at some point have to have the levels with the computers and consoles going up rather than down. And I was just like, they designed the Death Star. It's really fucking my head up. But. But that's not real. No. It doesn't matter. But. I still haven't. Like, I was about to say, my algorithms on my facebook are like, it shows me, flat earth stuff and globe stuff. So I get both arguments all the time and I still haven't really seen anything that's convinced me that it's flat.

Yeah. I mean, you know, like I said, I'm not. I'm not out to change anyone's mind. I am very. I'm very. At the moment, I'm very confident because you've been talking definitely flat. And the model we are told is bullshit. Like, I think we. I think I've asked you. I don't know whether I've asked you before. Do you believe, like the 1971 whatever, moon landing? 69. 69, yeah. I've been told it's believe it. Why not? I tell you what, I tell you a few things to back it up. I feel that happened.

Yeah. Is. It was so expensive for a big hoax. Oh, so expensive. You could just. To just throw in one super quick thing. Do you know what NASA's budget is? I think this is the. Right now, yeah. A few billion, isn't it? 3,010,000,000 pound a day. Can I just. So what is that a year? Like 3 million. Basically, this is my question. NASA's like a media marketing company, then literally that's. NASA has rockets. They are literally marketing. Literally. Right. So it's an extremely expensive hoax.

Yeah. At some point, if it is a hoax, it would get. I know you don't believe in the moon's real and space is real, so it's very difficult to have this sort. I mean, I believe it's real. I just don't believe it's what we are. Oh, okay. I thought. You just thought it was all. Is the moon flat or. We don't know. No one knows. But anyway, right. We were other nations. Other nations. You just can't stop thinking about what's on the underside of the earth. It's really bothering me now. Spend me pulse.

The other nations that were in competition with the US are sending probes out there. Are they? Well, that's what the Chinese and Russians and Indians are saying. Have you. Did you see the official video of the indian probe landing on the moon? I think I've seen a green. Did it fall over? No, it's a green. No, maybe I haven't. It's like a lime green and orange 1985. Oh, no, the actual probe itself. Yeah. No, no, I haven't seen that. No, sorry. I've seen the pits.

Go watch the official indian feed from whatever it is, Mumbai space Center and tell me if you think that is real. So there. Oh, okay, I will. There are a lot of things that I made me question the mule. There are a lot of things that made me question it when I was younger. But one thing that I find hard to sort of dispute is our CGI technology now is pretty good, but you can still tell it's CGI.

Like if you watch planet Yapes, you kind of go, oh, that looks pretty realistic, but I still know it's CGI. Or if you see a SCI-Fi film. You still know it's not realistic. Chasm of something. Robert, it's like this. Your brain just goes, yeah. Whereas the little launches I've seen from like the late sixties, early seventies where the shuttle, sorry, the rocket goes up and it separates and you see the earth. It just doesn't look fake. It doesn't look fake. It looks real.

I don't think they're the technology. But you've been led to believe that. So you're perceiving it all the time. I'm like, that looks real and it's like 40, 50 years. But you're perceiving as real potentially because of that's the way you've been made to think. And also perceiving, they didn't have CGI. If they hadn't got to you beforehand, your perception would have been altered by this priming effect.

How. Yeah, but, and also how do you know what it actually looks like in terms of your saying it looks real? It looks real compared to what? To like when they would make a SCi-Fi film from that same period. It looks like models. It looks shit. And they've got the best fucking model makers. And you watch Star Wars. Star wars does not look real. It looks like a film. Tattooing. Tattooing.

They were inventing technology like, like Lucasarts and what were happening to form companies to make these special effects because they simply didn't exist. Can I give your argument? I want to say what you say about Tatooine. I'm interested. All the movies look at. Yeah, because it's a flipping technology. They had the technology, the Illuminati had the technology, but it just wasn't available to the normal people coming to the. Moon and it's in. But there's a lot of, it's real.

Rocks, it's real dirt, it's real sand. They're really driving around in their magic space car. Yeah, that cost fucking. It was magic. It was fucking magic at the moment. At the time. Well, the grip champ called Jerome coming. Back on next week to tell me I'm a fucking idiot. Yeah, I think he may have mentioned this, but at the time, the shuttle was being tracked by, like, every nation that could track it. And at the time they were like, oh, yeah, they got there. That's what he said.

The Russians didn't go, no, this is the bloody hogs. He's a bloody murky. That's what he says. Well, that's. Well, that's what was reported at the time. And it's not been. They haven't disputed it until, I think, recently. I think Putin's got. Well, did they go? Surely the Russians would, because he was a contest. Surely the Russians were the first to have gone. They didn't get there. Prove it. Bullshit that looks like that. There's a mouse there. That's bullshit. Shadow is not right.

America controls the world's media. If we come out and say the Americans were lying, what you see, we will just be called stupid communists. Of course they're gonna say that because they couldn't go, because they're the losers, so they don't bother to say it. Like I said, america didn't say when Yuri Gagarin went out of space. Sputnik's not really in outer space. They made a deal, though. Maybe they made a deal.

One of you can have the first person in space, one of your first person, I think they can get. As long as you don't debate. Can't go up where it's black. Eventually, though, sorry, I got very. So eventually, those competing nations will go to the moon and they'll go, oh, look, there's no evidence they were at the moon. So this is, this is my. But this is, again, my point. Right? Do you think we'll ever get that then? No. Right.

All I've been hearing since I was young is next year, two years, three years, five years. Commercial space flights, new rockets, better technology. We're going to do it in another year, probably a couple of years time. Another five years time have we gone. But you don't think the Illuminati have the techno. They probably pin, but they still want. Space on the far side. Don't think. I think this. I think they've got civilization. They're from this country, than this country.

They probably live on the fucking moon. I think it's a. Nazis, Nazis, Nazis on the moon. I don't think the moon was right wing. Reflecting the sun. Why'd you say that? It looks flat when you look at it, the sun, you can't really see because it's so bright. You can put goggles on, you can. Look at it and it looks dangerous. And the moon looks. Your eyes. Yeah. Because we're only seeing. If I. If I went and stood 100 yards away and went like this, you'd go, oh, there's a flat human.

You can't see the back of it. Should we try this? He's flat, twisted. Anything far away that you can't see any of the dimensions from, it is. Gonna look different perspective. No. If you have a ball, it reflects light differently as it has a specular. Highlight, which is why the moon has. Full moon, crescent moons. All of that. You know, it's interesting, but full moon looks flat. It doesn't look like a ball.

And again, these are all, these are all things that are just questions rather than necessarily answers. Right. How. How feasible do you think it is that the moon is. I think they call it tidally locked to the earth, that it never rotates. We only ever see the bright side of the moon. We never see the dark side of the moon. That's where the Nazis are, right? No, but apparently everything else rotates.

All the planets are rotating and we're rotating and we go around the sun and the sun's going through the dead. Everything else is moving. But the moon just happens weirdly to never rotate and it just stays completely same face facing us all the time. Even though, again, this is NASA's model. We are going around the sun at interesting number, 66.6 thousand mile an hour. Have you seen a pattern of six? That's what they say. $0.66. That's what they say. Moon Nazis, isn't it?

We are, we are, we are inclined at an angle to the sun. Can you guess? 666. I'm 66.6 degrees. I'm just thinking that Hitler didn't. Lyndon didn't flee to Brazil, he went to the moon. 66.6 degrees, boys, from the moon. 66.6 thousand mile an hour. We're going to be, coincidentally, it could. Be the sun is going through the galaxy at 512,000 miles an hour and the galaxy is going through the universe at 1.3 million mile an hour. The moon's just hanging out, going around us.

Always see the same face, never moves, never. Does Ganymede spin? That's what Europa, do they spin? Some of Jupiter's moons, do they spin? There's just lights in the sky. Never did their moons spin. I don't know. I don't know. Might be a factor. That might be a common denominator. Maybe no moon should get like an. Astrologer maybe and speak to an astrologer. Maybe I've got one, but you won't. Come on. Why? See, he's very. Exposed. So we're getting somewhere because I thought you.

How are we getting somewhere? Where do we even start? I mean, because I thought Jason thought that that was a projection and there was no space. I think there is high Earth orbit of several hundred miles or. Nah. So you know, in nuclear. Do you believe in nuclear weapons? Do you think nukes exist? Unsure. You're not sure if nukes exist unsure? I don't say they don't. I heard nazis have them because they. I think there's three stages and they'll go up into the Earth.

At the Earth's atmosphere, they separate and then they boost. So they go 100 miles up, maybe 500 miles up. I can't remember. Might be 500 or higher. And then they get to the point and then they separate and then they go. And they go down? Yeah. I mean, that comes under the concept of cool story, bro, but I can't. Have you seen one do that? Well, thank. Good job. How do you know? I've watched and I've read many books on nuclear War. You watched all the Star wars films.

Does that mean the Death Star wars? But they're intentionally fiction. These are like by people that have know about nuclear war. That's why they're writing about. They're. They're journalists. So there is someone that has gone out and they've done fucking. I refer your journalists back to my Covid storage. A nuclear bomb has been dropped. And has it? You mean that rap, rap, rap, yeah. Rap is such a competitive sport. My glasses still on. It's the incredible door.

They want to try me like the fed of a car but I'm unashamed of the gospel. I never retorted.