Thursday Therapy: How to Be Alone - podcast episode cover

Thursday Therapy: How to Be Alone

Apr 04, 202430 min
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Episode description

We need to change the narrative about dating, especially when you feel it’s better to be with the wrong person than be alone. Jana is talking to author and comedian Lane Moore about finding joy in hanging out alone. 

Find out how to become your own best friend, because you’d never treat a friend the way you treat yourself!

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Transcript

Speaker 1

Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio Podcast.

Speaker 2

On this week's Thursday Therapy, We've got Lane Moore. So, she's an award winning writer, actor, comedian, musician. Her first book, How to Be Alone If You Want To and Even If You Don't, became an instant number one bestseller and was praise as one of the best books of the year by the New York Times. She's going to be coming on the show. She's got a new ebook out right now to talk about how to break the endless cycle of dating mistakes.

Speaker 3

Let's get her on. Hi. Hi everybody, Hi, how are you doing.

Speaker 1

I'm doing okay? How are you?

Speaker 3

I'm so good?

Speaker 1

Good, Okay.

Speaker 2

You had a book came out that was insanely successful, How to Be Alone, which I think is one of the hardest things to be is alone.

Speaker 3

I think that's why I.

Speaker 2

Continued to be in the most toxic of toxic relationships because it was better than being alone.

Speaker 1

Right.

Speaker 2

So, then when I got divorced for the time, I was like, Okay, there seems to be a pattern, and it seems to be me and I have a problem with being alone. And so when I was forced to be alone, the uncomfortability was weird at first, but then it became something that to this day, even though I'm happily engaged in getting married again, it's I'm I'm more comfortable, and I'm like, I like my alone time too, Like when he does travel, I don't get that anxious feeling

like I used to. And I think a lot of times too with the girls. I was just talking to my best friends in Los Angeles and you know, she's like, I'm finally happy alone, and I'm like, that's when it's all going to click after that, because you're changing a part of like your patterns and behaviors, and you're not going to fall back into something bad because you just miss someone.

Speaker 3

So what do you think?

Speaker 2

I mean, obviously I want to talk about your new ebook and what you have out now, but I just think it's so important for people that struggle with that alone like be you know, being alone, Like how did you overcome it? And what do you think the best tips and tools for people to get through that season?

Speaker 1

Is? Yeah, absolutely. And it's so funny when you said you know you were always with somebody because it was better than being alone. I imagined that you used air quotes around better because it's absolutely not you know, being with anybody.

Speaker 2

First, Yeah, it's not miserable. How am I miserable? And like, yeah, it's all.

Speaker 1

Rul But we do tell specifically there is a gendered message also, like we especially tell women that it's better than being alone. We put these timelines on women. You better have a man choose you. By this age. God, it doesn't matter who the man is. And you know, the men get all the power, they get to choose you. Oh my god, you've been chosen. You better go with him. It's so so dated and so strange, and so many of us have internalized it. I've internalized it. I'm sure

you internalize it. It's hard not to. So. You know, when I wrote How to Be Alone, so much of why I wrote it was I didn't have I felt like there were all these messages about what I was supposed to have, what we're supposed to have. We're all supposed to have perfect families, which, by the way, you just get randomly assigned a family you actually don't like. If you have a great, if you come from a great, loving, wonderful, stable family, you don't like deserve that you randomly got

like everybody deserves it, you know what I mean. But there's all these messages that if you don't get that, it's because you don't deserve it, something's wrong with you. You're unlovable, and you're going to internalize that even more. And because we don't talk about anybody who isn't lucky enough to get randomly assigned that, you know, which was I say?

And I want to emphasize because so many of us feel like we did something wrong if we don't have this perfect, loving family, if we don't have these perfect, magical friends, if we don't have this perfect partner right away. And I had internalized that, and I was like, everywhere I look, everybody is posting all of these like best mom in the world, best dad in the world, best sister in the world. We're never separated, we've never had problems stuff on social media. I don't relate to that,

and I feel like I'm the only one. And so so much of writing how to Be Alone and talking about these things was at the time I hadn't read anything or seen anything that reflected my story of experiencing that kind of like, well, where am I supposed to go? I don't have this foundation that everybody allegedly has and because of that, finding out that because of that, making friends was harder because if you don't have that foundation,

everything is screwed. It's so hard, and you have to kind of go through all of these messages because that's really I just really learned that that's where it all started, was whatever messages that you got as a kid from your family, extended family, the people in your life that has molded your brain. And some people got very lucky, and they got so much self esteem and confidence and believe, you know, belief that they were worth everything, and so then they you know a lot of times then they

only they didn't settle for anything less than everything. But the rest of us didn't do that, and we were set on this path or we had to uncover all this sticky stuff. So uh. And the beautiful thing about How to Be Alone was that when I submitted that book to my publisher, I was genuinely terrified because I'd never seen anybody talk about this really heavy stuff, and I was really worried people were going to be like, what's wrong with her? Why can't she just be normal

like us? And I still to this day, you know, the book's been out a while now, and I still to this day gets so many messages on Instagram from people who are like I thought I was the only one. I thought I was the only one who felt like this. I didn't know anybody else felt like this. It's like changed my life to realize other people can feel like this.

So I think that's a big part of not feeling alone, really, I think is knowing there's other people who have walked similar paths, and when you feel like no one has walked your path, it's like extra alone. So part of why I wanted to write this was, yeah, share the

things that I knew. And one of the biggest things that I talk about in the book is really realizing how much of what you're going through right now, the people that you're attracting, you know, through no conscious fault of our own, are really often based on those templates that we had when we were really young. If we were around people who treated us like we weren't worth anything, well, guess what, who are we around now? People who treat

us like we're not worth anything? And it's not that we want that, And that was something I really wanted to dispel because there's a lot of like, there's people out there who have kind of a toxic positivity spin on it, and they're like, well, just get rid of them. Well, people who had a really rough upbringing can't just get rid of them, because that's what we're used to, that's

what we're weirdly comfortable with. We know how to deal with not getting enough, we know how to deal with, you know, always kind of feeling short changed, always, you know that kind of sometimes even abuse or neglect, we we understand it. It feels familiar, and so we kind of don't realize the water is getting hotter and hotter and it's burning us enough to like get out of the water. We're kind of like, I can stay in

this a while longer. I'm really good at, you knowwithstanding this. So, I think that so much of the work of being able to be able to be alone, be able to be on your own, develop a friendship with yourself is to not hate the parts of you that are different than what you're being told you should be. Because that was really big for me where I was like, oh, why am I like this? Why can't I just be

like them? Well? I had a different story than they had, and how do we instead of judging that, how do we have compassion for these things we went through that you know, maybe didn't make us like other people, but maybe made us better in some ways, maybe made us more interesting in some ways, maybe, you know, and kind of looking at myself the way that I would look at a friend, Like friends of mine have been through a lot of pain and trauma and survived a lot

of stuff. I don't look at them like, oh my god, what a damaged freak. But like that was my kind of internal voice, like, oh, I'm never going to not be alone because I've survived too much. But I never looked at other people that way. So I think a lot of it is sitting with that discomfort, because a lot of people, when they keep choosing, you know, they

don't want to be alone. They're avoiding it. What we're really avoiding is that conversation with ourselves where we admit how much pain we're in and the patterns we can't find our way out of. Where did they start? So

it's a lot of that inner work. But you know, I'm sure you related to this as well, when you start to realize like, okay, but chasing this happiness, this love from this other person that's not working, and so you kind of hit that breaking point where you're like, all right, I think I have to choose myself because I keep just replaying the same pattern over and over again. We have to like fix what's going on inside of us.

Speaker 2

Yeah, And I think there's something so cool that you said too, and it's it was sticking out to me, was how you said we have the narrative that it's better than it's better than being alone, it's better than not having relationships. And it's like that narrative is what I think keeps a lot of people. I know, it's what kept me in a lot of relationships. I'm like, well, it's better. It's better that you know then us, you know, having a separate family and the kids being two houses

and you know, it's better. It's better than us to saying like this is this is But I'm like, no, actually, that was the best thing that ever happened to me, like once I got through the really hard hard times because it was woodbwished on like a worst enemy. And also I love my new life so much better. It's

it's like a wild thing. But like that is what I thought, Well, it's better than you know, it's better than being alone and having a divorced family, because that's also what's been embedded in our brains too, and what we are literally supposed to or've been told to believe that that's what it is.

Speaker 1

That's so much of what it is, And so much of that book was me piecing apart all of these ideas that I'd internalized and that we'd internalize, and looking at really where they stem from, and you're like, oh, this is really regressive, this is super misogynoust that like women have to wait for the man to come and rescue, even though a lot of women have internalized this idea that like, oh, we just need a man, any man that can't be right, and so how do we kind

of and the same thing with family, like you know, I internalized like, well, you only get one family and you don't get any boundaries, and you got to just put up with whatever they do. Hell no, no, all of these messages are wrong. And you know, when you can kind of look outside yourself and say, oh, some of the pressure I'm putting on myself I don't even agree with.

Speaker 2

Right, there's something so true too, And right after this we'll go to the next things I really am excited to talk about as well. But we were at dinner. We were sitting at dinner and it was me and my daughter and my son and we were just talking about the day and Jace had said something about something that he liked, and Julie goes, well, I don't like that. And then Jace had kind of you know, little brother and made like a little remark about you know, how

could you not like that? And my daughter started to get upset. I'm like, baby, what's wrong. She's like, I just like, I feel like sad that, like I'm the only one that doesn't like something that like my other friends like and Jace likes. And I'm and that's when I'm you know, that's when she starts to feel like she's not normal or something's wrong with her. And I was like, no, no, baby, and I was like that

just made me think. I'm like, thank goodness, I at least noticed that and then corrected it to be like it's okay. I was like, you know, I love to run, Alan doesn't love to run.

Speaker 1

You know.

Speaker 2

I'm trying to make some like and that's okay. Like people can have different things and like you're not different than like you just like it's like it's totally normal. But like, as a kid, I don't think we were ever corrected in those moments, you know.

Speaker 1

I my friend had to correct me the other day where I was just like, I don't know, I really don't like that movie. I know everybody loves it. I think it sucks. And my friend was like, why are you explaining why you hated this? And I was like, I don't know, because I feel weird that everybody likes it. I really don't like it, and I don't want to be like negative or whatever. I just it's really not my thing. And he was just like, it's okay, you don't like it, and I was like, okay, oh yeah, right,

be normal, be normal, be like everybody else. Even in so many ways, I've always been different. I've always been, you know, march to the beat of my own drummer. But it's so funny that even as adults, there's still these moments that are just like everyone likes that singer or that movie or whatever. You don't like them, what's wrong with you? Like what? I can make my own choices.

Speaker 2

I almost I almost don't like the Beatles, I think because I know everyone else likes them. So that's how that's like my thing. Okay, you've got a new audiobook, so it's called you're not the only one looking up breaking the endless cycle of dating mistakes? And I just I mean, girl, give us, give us like everything if you can in the next like what is what do you think the biggest cycle in the dating world is?

Speaker 1

Oh man, So there's so many. You know. One of the things that we do so often is we are just kind of ignoring these red flags because we don't know if they're really red flags and if we're allowed to honestly, very similar to you know, talking about your daughter. Am I allowed to like this? Am I allowed to hate this? Am I allowed to think? This isn't enough

for me? And so many of us are doing that because we are told like, well, we're told mixed messages, right, We're told from like the kind of girl boss you deserve more. We're told the like, don't settle for that. That's crap. He's a piece of crap. Like just this kind of like look for any little thing that you don't like, and it's a red flag. Everything's a red flag. So we have that, and then we also have well you got to give someone a chance. No one's perfect,

you don't get everything you want. So we're told these really differing.

Speaker 3

Things, or at least the other one at least.

Speaker 2

So what I did too was well, it's not as bad as the last one, so it's better, right, and least.

Speaker 1

This is great? Like yes, right. So it's like there's all these different things about well what are and it really that kind of thing, you know, and people being on dating apps and kind of thinking, well, I really wish they would do this, but they're not, and maybe

they can't offer that. I think I see so much second guessing and so much you know, in the in the book I talk a lot about I interview people from you know, different ages, different backgrounds, all these things, and have different stories from all these people about the mistakes they kept making over and over again. And the thing that I saw was so much second guessing and so much second guessing of our own self worth that I fully related to where you just start to think, well,

what am I allowed to want? What am I allowed to need? And then also, and this is something I've talked a lot about in in all my books and all my work is like this idea that we we've internalized, that idea that like we're supposed to be a chill girl who has like no needs and is down for whatever. And I, throughout my entire career have railed against that because I personally think that women are almost always settling anyway.

You know, every woman that I've met, everyone that I've talked to, is already like you know, you talk to so many men and they're just like, it doesn't matter who they are, what they're bringing to the table. So many so I'll give some added context here. I do a comedy show called Tinder Live, where I like go on my Tinder and I swipe through the worst, most

chaotic profiles. And I've been doing it a long time, and the number of men's profiles that I see that are like, first of all, you better be a ten. You better shave every single thirty seconds. No kids, no fed. He's like this list of demands while he's bringing we have no idea what he's bringing to the table. And there's so many men who have this like wild confidence. Even if he looks like a thumb, it doesn't matter, you know, and has like three dollars to his name.

He still has this list of demands and you better bring it if you want whatever he's offering, which I think is like a pulse. And then women are like, well I would kind of like this, but if he doesn't have it, it's okay. Like we're so used to telling ourselves to not be too picky, not want too much, so I you know, that's and that's just so much of what I saw when I was talking to people where they're like, well, he did this thing. I thought it was kind of scary, but maybe it wasn't, you know.

And I think that's so much of what and it doesn't have to be as extreme as that, but like that was kind of disappointing or I kind of wish he'd done this, but oh well, And that's where it starts. That's sort of like we're settling from the beginning because we don't want to be alone, you know.

Speaker 2

Right, But I also think too, like I I definitely know, and I've said this publicly many times, Like I know I settled in my last relationship because I was almost thirty one years old. I wanted to have a family. Yeah, he cheated on me, but it's okay. I've made mistakes to in my past like it's fine, like he won't do it again.

Speaker 3

Well, you know.

Speaker 2

So for me, it was one of those things where this next go around when I started dating, like I just will not settle because there I'm fine now being alone, Like I'm I'm totally fine now. I know there's not a perfect person, but I'm not going to go ooh. I didn't really like the flags or the settling, like there's just there's just zero point, like why I've got two beautiful children.

Speaker 3

I'm you know, I'm good being alone.

Speaker 2

And so I do think, like I have a few girlfriends that are younger and they're like, well, this guy like sent me this video of the I'm like no, I'm like and I always compare and not you know, to say, like Alan, my fiance is a unicorn, but he is he is incredible, Like he's an incredible man. He loves me fiercely, and how he shows up is everything I could have. I didn't even think men like that existed. And it's like that like some of these

guys out there, I'm like, why would you expect? Why would you It's like it's a mind blowing because I'm like I am I was that girl to be like, well, it's not that bad, right, I'm like no, it's actually really bad, Like he should not be sending you videos of him like doing disgusting things with x Y And I'm like no, like that's not a man I don't know.

Speaker 3

And so it was just like it's so hard.

Speaker 2

To like be on the flip side of it too, going, girl, no, you can do so much better than that, like, don't just settle because you just want to be a relationship or have kids.

Speaker 3

So but the timeline with us too, though, is difficult.

Speaker 1

Right because it's so and we've also we've internalized this idea that like, well, you never know what your soulmate's going to be, like maybe he loves everything you hate. And it's like, wait, what, I find that hard to believe, Like we wouldn't do that when it comes to our friends, Like how many friends do you have like close friends who like are wildly opposite and you have almost nothing

in common. But we have kind of internalized that, like, well, okay, there's a lot of red flags here to me, but maybe that is him. Because we do see these romantic comedies where it's like, oh I hated him at first. He was the worst man I'd ever met. That he was my soulmate, what I guess, But like I think we you know, like, yeah, that happens sometimes that's your soulmate. But I feel like it's like being struck by lightning. That's probably not your soulmate. Is somebody who you think sucks.

But I think that all of these things, you know, contribute, and the timeline of it. Women feel like, oh, I'm running out of time. I should have this, and the cycle of comparison of like, well, my friends have already found people, but like, you know, one thing that I really want to note and that I talk about in this book as well, is like some of those people might divorce. You don't know if their relationships are good, your comparisons, Like all my friends have people, Well, how

good are their relationships? And really look at them, and do your friends have a good relationship? Is that a relationship you'd want? Again, just kind of looking at the sure that we're putting on ourselves, I'm you know, it's so important to me to remind people that I do think that if you are meant to have a soulmate, if you're meant to have that love relationship, which I think most of us are. It'll happen even if you set standards, even if you say no such a point,

nothing that's meant for you will miss you. I really believe that. So if you see that guy sending those videos and you're like, ough, not for me, He's not for you. And it's something I wish I knew so much sooner, you know, which is so much of my work where I'm just like, how can I spare other people the stuff it took me so long to learn?

Speaker 3

You know, no totally.

Speaker 2

But it almost seems like everyone should read your first book book How to Be Alone, to then be able to now go, okay, you'll be a little bit more equipped and not as hungry for the relationship if you know how to be alone totally.

Speaker 1

Well, and it's so and then I actually, so this is my third book. My second book came out almost a year ago, called You Will Find Your People How to Make Meaningful Friendships as an adult. Because that's good, and I would say, because well, once you start, once you know, once I'd written how to Be Alone, I was like, oh, I'm in a better place to like make better friends. And then I realized that's hard as hell too, but you have to unpack all this other stuff.

But I will say that, you know, having a really great friend group is also such a great thing to be able to have when you're dating. Because for a lot of my dating life, and I don't know if you had this too, I didn't have really great friends. So I was kind of looking and so many of us do this. I was looking for my romantic partner to be like everything.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Well, what I blame myself for not having good friends is because I put my boyfriend above any friend pretty much for the longest of times ever. So it's that was always my issue of of course the greatest of friendships, because I was like, what do you want to do this person like above above them?

Speaker 1

So but again, you know, and I like, I talk about this in that book as well, where like we are taught to put friendships underneath romantic relationships. They're not as good. You're supposed to save all of your energy for this perfect partner who's going to complete you. You actually don't need these friends. Friends are just you know, what you have before you meet your partner. That's so flawed because if anything goes wrong, with that relationship, you

don't have anybody to talk to about it. Now you're in this bubble where it's just you and this other person. If you can't see clearly, you're gonna stay in that

relationship so much longer. So I think it's it really is this hierarchy of like you have to get be okay with being by yourself, really shore up those friendships because also the biggest thing that I learned when I started having better friendships is it was harder for me to set up because I was like, the friends that I have in my life are bringing me this incredible energy, this incredible love, this effort, They're bringing all the stuff

that I would want from a partner. Now, if somebody comes along in my dating life and they're not giving me that, please, I already see that this exists in my friendship. If you can't be as good as my friends, yeah, I don't need it. I don't need it.

Speaker 2

What do you think are the biggest red flags like in dating that our listeners should go? Okay, wait a minute now, she said, this is a big flag. I gotta be careful with this one.

Speaker 1

So it's so funny because it's so hard to know, because there are some red flags that I don't think are necessarily red flags. A lot of people talk about as being red flags, But the biggest one, I would say, because sometimes they'll like, never trust this. There could be another side to that where that person's not necessarily the worst. What I will say the biggest red flag. And this is so true for me looking back, noticing how you actually feel around them. If you don't feel good around them,

that is a red flag. And I say that might sound simple, but if you're used to we are so socialized to not listen to ourselves, to second guess ourselves, to tell ourselves, you know, we're being too needy, too picky, too much of this. We're not, you know, just let it happen, let it unfold. Meanwhile, we're feeling really bad in this situation. We're feeling you know, uneasy about it, and we tell ourselves that that's just because we've been

through some hardships, some pain, some trauma. I don't think so. I think that when you know when it is a good person, they're like a good person for you. They make you feel pretty at ease most of the time, even if you have a lot of anxiety which I do. Even if you have an anxious attachment, which I talk a lot about attachment styles and things like that. You know, when we have those struggles, we tell ourselves that, well, everyone's making us feel uneasy. It's just us, it's just me.

I don't believe that, I really think, and that's not saying that anybody who makes you, you know, feel a little bit anxious cut and run. I think there are conversations that can be had, but I think that you know, looking really looking at how somebody makes you feel, and you can verbalize those things. And so then I guess that brings me to the next red flag, which would be if they're not willing to give you what you'd need.

And I say that because in so many of my relationships, friendships otherwise that I've had, I've told people, Hey, I really need consistency from somebody. I want to know that when you say you're going to do something, you actually do it, follow through. All that stuff is so important to me to feel like I can trust somebody.

Speaker 3

Words and actions need to match.

Speaker 1

Words and actions need to match. But you know, some people will be like, oh my god, totally yeah, I'll do it, and then they don't do it, and I would feel so crazy and I would be like, well, people are human. Sometimes they're going to mess up. And you start to second guess yourself and think that you don't deserve consistency, you don't deserve words and actions matching up, and you do. And I think it's you know, it's hard because we don't want to throw the baby out

with the bath water. We don't want to, you know, detonate an entire relationship just because of this. But again that goes back to the like, how does this make you feel when you've asked for something and told them why you need it, that you need it, and they're okay with letting you down. Why are you okay with that with somebody who doesn't care. If you are now feeling extra anxious, extra discounted.

Speaker 2

They should come to you and go, how can I help you with this? Instead of add more to it, don't add more layers onto.

Speaker 1

It, right, And even if that's hard for them, you know, if they get distracted or whatever. I know, man, I have a bunch of reminders on my phone, Like if you really love somebody and you know they need that, calendar reminders, phone reminders, I don't know, like you either think somebody is worth it or you don't. Yeah, that's really it, And then why are you okay with being somebody who clearly doesn't think you're worth it? Lane?

Speaker 2

I just enjoy everything you're doing. Thank you for coming on the show. Can you let our listeners know where they can find you and everything that you're up to.

Speaker 1

Yeah, so I'm at Hello Lane Moore on Instagram and Twitter and TikTok and all the things. You can find all of my books and tour dates. I do Tender Life every single month in New York City and I tour the country with it, coming out to La soon. That's at lanemore dot org. And yeah, you can find all the links for my books and stuff like that. And I have a podcast as well called I thought it was just me that talks about all this stuff on Patreon slash Lane Moore.

Speaker 2

Awesome, Lane, thank you so much for coming on mine down. Really appreciate you.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I appreciate you too, Thank you so much.

Speaker 3

Okay, all right, bye, girl bye.

Speaker 2

Everyone go grab a copy of her new audiobook, You're Not the only One f and Up Breaking the Endless Cycle of Dating Mistakes, Available now

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