Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio Podcast.
All Right, this week's Thursday Therapy. We've got doctor taits on. She's a clinical psychologist in New York and California. She has a new book coming out, Stress Reset, How to soothe your body and mind in minutes. Let's get her on.
Hey girl, Hi, it's nice to meet you.
Nice to me too, So I hear we have a mutual friend.
I too. I was like, You're so happy that we're talking about this. I know. I got a.
Text this morning and I was like, Oh, why is doctor Drunker texting me? And I'm like, by the way, people listening, Doctor Unger is my boob surgeon. He's a plastic surgeon here in Nashville. But I was like, ah, he's probably checking in to see how my postpartum boobs are. But and I was like, oh no, he's like he's a happy New Year, hope all as well. He's a small world. You're having a guest in your podcast, Jenny. She's a she's married to my best friend from growing up.
And I'm like, oh my gosh, that's so cool. What a small world.
Yes, I'm excited to talk to you and it does feel like we're already friends.
I know, I love that. But I was reading your bio last night and a few things. I know you have a new book out. It's called Stress Reset, How to Soothe your Body and Mind in Minutes. But I was also when I was reading just again your bio, your breakdown. You're also the author of How to Be Single and Happy, science based strategies for keeping your sanity while looking for a soulmate, and I just was like, wow, this is you. Just You've got it all. So I'm
just I want to dive into your book. But can we also talk about that one too, because I think a lot of people would want to hear the you know, what that book is about, and then the strategies for just being happy in a moment when you probably are not where you want to be.
You know, I would love to talk to that book. Thank you.
Perfect. So okay, so let's start with because when I read that, I'm like, Okay, how to soothe your body and mind in minutes? I was like, all right, just how because sometimes and I will say, my body is my first indicator when I don't feel safe, and I just go to that place of either past trauma or something. But for me, it's how do you regulate the body when you are being triggered by something that is activating you.
Janna, this is a big question, and I just want people to know from the get go this is all things that you can do in minutes. There's no long meditations, big medications or martinis required. And I include seventy five different tools because different things work for different people. And so if we think about it, stress or any emotion really has three components. There's really distressing thinking, Then there's physical sensations understandably that come with really negative thoughts, whether
it's muscle tension or scowling or your heart racing. And then there's behaviors, so sending an aggressive text or yelling or canceling or avoiding. And so by being really mindful of each of those three compartments or components and then intervening at each angle from mind, body to.
Behavior, we have a whole buffet of options.
And so like different genes work well for different people and fit better on you have a favorite, there are a lot of options, and so specifically for body, let's say one of my favorites is it seems so simple, but it's really subtle and profound at the same time. But a lot of times when we're angry, if we're sitting in traffic and like someone is moving five miles per hour in front of us.
Or you're in like a really long line, when you're in a huge.
Rash and guessing that you are tensing your whole face, and that is probably like almost tipping into attention headache. And if you do something as simple as a half smile, which is really a quarter of a smile, which is you know, ever so slightly amaizing your lips, that automatically like releases tension in your face, and that creates an
ambience that's more conducive to being more accepting. And so just from the outside and relaxing your face will automatically like kind of quiet judgmental thoughts and allow you to practice more acceptance. So that's just one of very many that I personally am trying to do that all the time.
And again, there's so many options.
How do you do that though, when you're so angry, or you're hurt, or you're broken, or you're because I can imagine again, something was really hard that I was dealing with, just you know, a few weeks ago, and it's like if someone told me just a smile to fix out it that there's no there's like my body's like shaking, you know what I mean, Like how do
you change? Like is it? Are we talking? And just because I'm like yes, like you said, it sounds it sounds simple, but at the same time, it sounds also hard when you're in that moment where you're where you're so your body is so taken over by stress or anxiety.
And I'm so happy that you raised that, because this is not the thing to do if you're angry for a good reason, or the anger is serving you, if your anger is serving you, if you're angry at someone that disappointed you, your face is the best community cater that is providing the other person like very powerful information. And so we don't want to do this. I would
never recommend suppressing or just like smiling through it. This is if you you know you're in traffic and fighting is just going to give you a migraine, not improve the situation. But if someone pissed you off, then I would not say like half smile through it. I would say there's there's so many other things. I mean it's we could totally dive into the details of why what this person did, but it might be giving the benefit of the doubt.
It might be asserting yourself.
And there's like a really practical, user friendly recipe that I teach in the book on exactly how to assert yourself that you could use, like as a template to plug and play different situations into. But yeah, different different tools for different times. And if someone really pissed you off, I would not say half smile is your tool.
No, no, and no one, No one pissed me off. It was more just you know, I think stress, postpartum hormones, all the things. You just I'm a little probably more tense than I normally am, you know. And so that's where in that moment, I'm like, oh, it'd be tough to smile or to do the you know, the lift of the lip. But like, is there anything else that in your book too, where you talk about, okay, how to ease your mind a little bit in those situations of stress or.
Yeah, yeah, when you are postpartum.
And I'm so grateful that you're doing this in such a busy time.
I think, really taking a minute.
I love the skill of self validation really normalizing the normal, because a lot of times we might feel angry and then stack onto that like I should feel happy, I should be grateful, or what's wrong with me? And I think just normalizing like it is really exhausting and it's really understandable to not feel like your best self when sleep is compromised. That automatically spikes cortisol levels and affects your ability to think clearly and compromises your ability to
feel great. And so even just the act of knowing like it makes sense to feel this way and it's okay to feel this way, I don't need to judge that. I don't need to also believe the things that I'm thinking in this state, because it's a real problem to believe everything you think when you're feeling really lousy and you're not sleeping enough.
Do you have tips in the book to how to combat the snowball effective stress where it's you? Because for me, I know I do this. When one thing stresses me out, fifty things will then stress me out. And it's not even and I'm normally never stressed about the twenty nine, thirtieth or fortieth thing, But when I'm stressed about one like I compile everything together. Do you have anything for that?
Yes, And so that is something that we all do, and a lot of us do this in crazy, you know, comical ways. You know. I just remember when I was postpartum. I was really stressed and overwhelmed going back to work, and I was like literally just thinking about all the things I had to do and how I had no energy.
And how I had no time.
And then I started mindlessly picking at my fingernail and little did I know that when you are postpartum your compromised. And so I developed a crazy antibiotic resistant infection that like required minor surgery and multiple visits with infectious disease. And so literally, I think this is everything, Like when we are really stressed, we think in ways that make things much more stressful, and we act in.
Ways like it was so ironic.
I was like, I don't have time, and then here I am with like five follow up visits to different doctors and sitting in the er for many hours. And so I think, even there's so many things, but one very specific thing is just labeling I'm in emotion mind, I'm not in reasonable mind, which is just the facts. I'm not in wise mind, which is where my head and heart are aligned.
But I'm in emotion mind like.
That automatically gives you a little bit of working distance from taking your thoughts. So seriously, if like it's the middle of the night and you hear a no ways emotion mind, like that does not mean that you're about to be you know, broken in your house is about to be robbed, Or if you're afraid of flying rather than thinking turbulence is a sign that you're in harm's way, taking a second to realize, like, no, no emotion mind, this is my fear of flying.
Not a crash is coming.
I mean, you bring up flying and I'm probably the worst flyer there is, just because I don't like turbulence. I don't like to know. Okay, I would love to sit next to the pilot the entire time, and like are we good? Is this good? I think you just help. You're at a loss of control too, because it's it's in their hands and you don't know what's going on
or the weather or anything like that. So uh with that aspect of things too, Like I tend to overthink a lot of things in my brain, like does not shut off at times I know you say, you know there's you can do this in a minute. So and instead of having doing a meditation or quieting the mind, is there, what can you do for the overthinking of just like stopping your brain from just overacting.
When you're afraid on planes? Can I ask what specifically comes up for you, like what are your thoughts, what are the sensations in your body? I know you said your urge is to just check in to make sure everything's okay.
I don't like I don't like feeling trapped that comes from a PTSD situation from when I was nineteen. I do not like the feeling of being trapped. I also don't like the fact that if something were to happen, well,
I think it's gotten worse as a mom. So when I had kids, really to start to paint the picture, like, oh my god, if something happens and I'm on a plane and they're not going to have their mom and so I think there's the year, and I know the I've gone to theearflying dot Com and I know all the statistics and you could tell me that till you know you're blue in the face. But I'm still every time we hit a bump. I'm like, I start to freak out. Are we okay? Look at the flight attendance.
You know, my body just goes into essentially fight or flight, you know where I just am like I'm on high alert and I'm not in I'm not in my right brain, Like I'm not I'm not rational, I'm like, we're going down.
I really appreciate you opening up about that, and I think a lot of people listening probably relate to your your thoughts and feelings. I think the first thing in this is something I talk about in the book, is having a traumatic event in your past. It creates an ongoing vulnerability and kind of fight or flight response. And so surprisingly, there are treatments for PTSD that don't take
very long and aren't too much work. For example, there's something called written exposure therapy where you write about the trauma for five sessions. Each session is thirty minutes and you write about your deepest thoughts and feelings about the
event and how it affects you today. And remarkably, five thirty minute writing sessions work as well as much longer treatments, and these have been This has been used with veterans and people that have been through very intense, prolonged trauma, and so I think the first thing is to really understand that PTSD is going to be make a lot of day to day things much more stressful, but for people to realize that there are really promising research back
to ways to treat PTSD that will give you more bandwidth.
Interesting, I've never heard of that one, Like I've done the e MDR. I mean, and it's interesting when I go to therapy sometimes it'll go back to that. I'm like, God, I've worked on that for so many years, you know, like, how how do I go back to that place? And I've never heard of that that the writing thing that's very interesting, Yeah, And kind.
Of the philosophy behind that is that when a traumatic event happens, we store it in a way that's splintered, and so we can continue to re experience it, but by slowing down and staying with it in the present, we can we can kind of close it out and create separation from it. And again, this is a really
remarkable treatment. And this is one of the reasons I wrote this book, because so many people can't necessarily afford therapy, or so many people might be doing things that aren't the most researched back to recent exciting ways to improve things, and so certainly I think written exposure therapies are really promising avenue. And I think another key part of flying
is radical acceptance. A lot of times we are fighting, you know, there's something difficult, and instead of accepting, we are fighting, and so I would you know, my patients laugh, but they know that they are not allowed to talk to the stewardess or not allowed to talk to the pilot. There's no questions about how does how are things looking
today or just typical. They need to, you know, they need to if they never pray, they're not supposed to be praying, Like, there needs to be this attitude of acceptance and willingness and allowing what is because trying to direct things that are out of our control is going to be. You're not a pilot, that's not your I mean it's kind of playful but true, it's like none of your business. Like you just got to You're doing this because this matters to you. You want to be courageous.
You're not, you know, a puppeteer orchestrating, right.
I like that nuts. I've never had it spun that way, But I really, I really like that. I'm curious to your thoughts on alcohol when it comes to stress, because you know, at the end of the day, people sometimes some people like to sit down, have a glass of
wine or crack open something. What are your views on that, because you know, we've had like doctor aman on and you know he's talked about the negative effects of alcohol, Like do you see that as a negative as well, or is it something where you're like, you know, in every once in a while or something.
I don't want to speak in all or nothing terms, but generally speaking, alcohol does affect our sleep quality. Even two drinks takes a toll on our sleep.
And so.
My whole thing is, I don't want people to do the equivalent of taking out a high interest credit card to cope with stress. If you're going to take something to take the edge off that then messes up your sleep, that's really not the best.
Long term solution.
And so I think if you're going out socially and you want to have a drink, that's one thing once a week. But I would really, I really hope to offer people a whole host of other things to do that are much more empowering. And besides alcohol, like I really, one of the things that stresses me out a ton is the thought that so many people, the fact that so many people are taking medications like anti anxiety medications like klanic ban or xyannex, that they're really actually painfully ironic.
It's like, when you need to be your sharpest, you're taking a medication that makes you think less clearly and slows you down. And they're also incredibly habit for me, and the detox is really really stressful. And so I want everyone listening to take a moment to really marinate on this idea that your body is your best pharmacy. You don't need alcohol, you don't need anti anxiety medications. We could talk about pot. I don't want everyone to hate me, but cannabis is not a cure for anxiety.
There are much better things within you.
So what would you say then for anxiety? Because I used to be on anxiety medicine for oh my gosh, I'm fifteen now, all of them I forty. I started when I was almost twenty me, so I mean, yeah, most I was almost on it for nineteen years. Recently got off last October.
Congratulations that's a really big deal.
Thank you. But having said that, I've had the worst postpartum anxiety. It's probably been depressions underneath there for sure, but the most it's been anxiety. And I've often wondered, you know, should I go back on because I know all the coping mechanisms of how not to have an anxiety attack. I know, you know, all the things that I've learned over the amount of years, which is why I also I eliminated one of my biggest stressors which then which was a marriage, and then after that, you know,
I didn't have an anxiety. I'm like, okay, like this is you know now I also know how to cope with it. But now it's I have that anxiety that's coming back. And I do have Xenx in my purse. I don't take it, but I like to know that I have it if I ever have like a moment on a plane or something where I can. But I mean, I haven't taken a xanax and probably ten years maybe, but I always have it in my purse. It's like almost a security blanket for me to know that I have it in case, which I think is not a
healthy habit. But I still refill it to know that it's there when the expiration date goes. But you know what are then because I do do not believe it, not not to believe. But when you look at like the serotonin levels and all the things, they say, Well, if the serotonin levels are off, like what then can you do to not be So if I'm having anxiety, then what would you basically say to me to do to not go back on anxiety medicine?
Well, the reason that you keep the issiatics in your purse is because you're afraid of what what are you like? What would be a situation where you would need to take.
That I pass out or like I'm on the verge and uh it's like a panic attack. Yeah, Like, let's say I'm stuck, which is another reason why you know I don't. I would never go on. I used to never drive in the expressway because I again I would the feeling of being stuck would get me dizzy to the fact that I have to pull off on the expressway right, So I just am like I avoided it. I lived in LA for however many years, ten years, never one on the four or five or the one
on one. I was like side streets all the way. So then I worked my way up, did amdr for it and all the things, and I stopped. I was able to drive on the expressway, so I'm able to do it now, but I have to stay on like the right lane so I know I can get off, and I'll never do it during rush hour because then that feeling of like being stuck again will just get me. I mean it's almost like a vertigo feeling where I
could just get super dizzy and I feel lightheaded. And so for me in that moment, I'm like, Okay, I would obviously don't drive in dousantics. That's not what I'm saying, but at least I know. I'm like, well, if I have a panic attack, I can take this and I know I'll be fine.
I'm so excited to talk to you about this, and nothing makes me happier than to talk about this, and I really appreciate you.
Being so open.
And so for anyone listening, the cure for panic is practicing panic. Everyone needs to remember this. The cure for panic is practicing panic.
Explain because I what do you mean? Yeah?
Yes, So when someone comes into my office and tells me that they have panic. And this is all in the book.
And this is one of the reasons I wrote this book is because people need to know this. If you have had a panic attack, you are probably avoiding anything that would recreate those symptoms. But what happens if you know that when you're in a stressful situation you are going to feel short of breath, sweaty, and dizzy. What happens if we make a list of those specific physical sensations and we practice them together for a minute each
who gets spin on a chair to feel dizzy? I can I have coffeeaster straws that have a really small opening. You pinch your nose. You just breathe in through the coffee ster or straw. You feel like you can't breathe. You can wear a winter coat. We could give you some espresso. You practicing you literally putting out a welcome that for physical sensations of anxiety puts you in the driver's seat and panic in the trunk. And after you've practiced this, you need to practice like each sensation for
about a minute. You could go the extra mile and like imagine that you're driving on the freeway and feeling these things. But once you repeatedly practice welcoming panic. Again, this is very similar to radical acceptance. And this is radical acceptance when you allow your body to do what it does and come to realize that what feels terrifying is in fact temporary, you win and anxiety loses. It's almost like a Chinese finger trap. The more you fight it,
the more you're held hostage. But the more you lean in and we're like, bring it on, bring it on. I've been there, I've done that. This is exactly what I did at home last night.
It's cool.
There's enough space and me to welcome in all of it. And then so step one is practicing that, and then step two. Then what you're saying is very familiar to me. And this is what everyone says. We need to avoid safety behaviors, which is staying in, you know, avoiding rush
hour traffic or avoiding certain lanes. And it's funny, you know, when I was pregnant with my oldest child, I had been living in New York for a very long time, and I flew out to la for a psychology training that was insolving, which is like a ninety minute drive from lax and I was on my way to this super important, exciting, amazing career opportunity. And I started to feel my hands get super sweaty on the steering wheel, and then.
I was like, oh my gosh, I'm like feel nauseous.
This isn't safe. I haven't driven on a freeway in years. This is really the worst idea to drive, like, you know, far my first time. And I was like, thank you mind, thank you mind, Like there's enough space in me to welcome in all of my feelings. If I had pulled over and left, what a missed opportunity to realize that, like it just comes and goes, it's waves, and that would have made me more anxious the next time. Then I would have developed some sort of narrative of I
can't do freeways. But it's like, no, we all feel these feelings. It's just a matter of am I willing to have them? And who's in charge here? My inner wisdom or fleeting sensations? Right?
No, I love that. Think when I'm hearing you say that, I think it's because I had passed out twice from having a panic attack. So my fear is if I what if I pass out while I'm driving? You know, I gets and that's where it's like my because my body will go from like zero to one hundred and a second when it comes to that feeling of trap.
And what situation did you pass out in if Acannos?
So it one was when I was in Mexico. I was completely sober, but so the I was an abusive relationship. He would wake me up at three in the morning, be the shot out of me, throw me at about. So when I was alone, I mean I would wake up at three am every every single morning after that incident, I mean up until I got divorced a few years ago, and so now I don't wake up at three am anymore.
But so I was alone, I was on tour, I was playing the country show, and it was that panic that I'm alone and I don't feel safe, and so I got up out of bed. I started having anxiety attack and then I fell and I hit my head and I still have scar tissue on my forehead from falling and hitting my head. And then another time was after my divorce, but that was just I mean, it was the week I filed, So, I mean I get the most, probably had zero food in me and everything else.
But yeah, there's certain things people can do to prevent fainting, which are counterintuitive, like pensing your muscles want people are like trying to relax, But it's called applied tension. Especially if people have blood injury injection phobias, if when they get their blood drawn they feel really faint, tensing your
muscles really helps them. So there's certain things to do, and obviously I want people to be thoughtful, but I think it's interesting that this happened twice in very extreme situations and to create rules around pretty low probability events. It maintains their weight and makes you more afraid of them. But there are all sorts of things in the book. I mean, another one that's kind of interesting is taking
a salable and filling it with ice water. If you hold your breath for thirty seconds, is you dip your face in the ice water, that lowers your heart rate that quickly kind of overhauls your nervous systems called the die of response. And even just holding ice can help. And anchoring or grounding, really digging your heels into the floor, taking a moment to kind of check in with yourself, what am I thinking doing? Come back to the moment. And so there are tons and tons of things, and
you're not alone. And I've seen a lot of people that have fainted, and it's like, let's get in the car together.
We got this and right.
If you know that you can face the physical sensations, it's pretty unlikely to faint. The thing where I see fainting the most often is around the blood injury injection for you, because that can make people faint. But again, this apply tension. It works, wonders.
I love that. What are your what it's like your favorite tip in the book the book that you write about.
There are so many, but I know one that I love is that I personal.
There's two that I'll share.
I really love slow breathing, breathing in for five seconds and.
Out for five seconds.
And I just want to clarify, like, it is not fair to think I'm just going to pick this up when things are really hard.
You need to do this like preemptively.
It's like you can't just decide like I'm going to run the marathon without having trained.
You need to do this like first thing in the morning.
And so I really love doing this and I think it works, Wonders, and I think it is much more powerful. It gives you a calm alertness, which is different than into anxiety medication that's like dull and not able to be strong and sharp. And I actually, in doing research for the book, I interviewed psychiatrists that have moved away
from prescribing medication and are now prescribing breathing. And they actually started a foundation called Breath, Body, and Mind Foundation where they work with disaster found disaster survivors teaching them breath work and even in disaster zones, this specific I don't know, breathing, which is much slower than the way that we normally breathe, is incredibly helpful and powerful and kind.
Of sets a good tone for the day. And you do this through your nose, so breathing in interesting and out and so it's one.
And then I also love a specific mindfulness practice called loving Kindness meditation. And this was like my best friend postpart of something it's just excited to share with you. And I continue to practice this all the time, but really practicing saying statements of loving kindness first to someone that naturally brings up those feelings, then to yourself, then to maybe a friend that's having a hard time than a familiar stranger.
Like the you're.
Amazon driver or someone see at a local coffee shop and someone a little bit difficulty, I'd be happy, may I'd be healthy, I'd be safe, and I live with these and that really creates kind of the groundwork for being a bit nicer to yourself. And doing this again, like ahead of time as a buffer, makes you a little bit more able to when you're beating yourself up or judging something that you did that wasn't perfect, it's a little easier.
To change the channel and get back into more compassion.
Yeah. Absolutely, Well, everybody gets stressed. Reset how to soothe your body and mind in minutes. I'm definitely going to do that, and I'm going to read it on the airplane. And then you have I just want to say the other book too that you have that's out, what is yours? CSIA How to Be Single and Happy? The biggest takeaway for people listening How to Be Single and Happy? You think the biggest takeaway from that book is.
So much to say, But a lot of people think, when I meet someone, then my life is going to be amazing. And there's a lot of research. This is not like random thoughts by Jenny Tates. This is like research studies looking at hundreds of thousands of people, on average, marriage increases happiness by one percent. And so I really want people to know that they don't need to wait for their life to start.
Your life starts now.
And some people worry that if they're too comfortable or too happy, then they won't look for love, but actually, like that's a very evolutionary desire. You will still want a partner if you're very happy. And so I want people to know that they can do the things that matter to them and live a life that feels really rich and meaningful even if they are not having a
lot of luck and love. And so many dating books make people feel really lousy and teach people to play games and be bitchy and settle, and I want people to know that there's a science to happiness, and there's a science to asserting yourself and communicating, and you don't need to play games and you don't need to lose yourself.
You need to embrace yourself.
And I really love that. That's awesome. Well, Jenny, thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. I'm adding to Kart right now.
Thank you. Thank you, Jen.
I really appreciate it talking to you, and I'm so happy that you know friends.
I know. Thank you girl the same. We'll speak to you soon. I'm going to slide into your DMS when I'm on my next plane ride and go all right, girl, And this.
Is Jennet, you got it on?
Are the tips again?
I mean, this is half the book, like do not do this on the plane. You've got to practice looking ahead of that. You've got to do some pre exposure therapy, and then we've got to work on radical acceptance and lower stress situations to do the hardest ones.
Okay, all right, I trust all right, Thanks Jenny, Bye bye girl bye