Everybody.
Yes, sure, wind down with Jane Kramer and Michael Cosson and wow, you.
Know that it was a name change. It's like a fish and Michael cuss It's like official. Oh dad didn't get neither.
I didn't get that j in her abbreviation.
Made I hung out with Julie too late last night, so yeah, that's true. I was breaking up all my words. It's that out.
I came.
Real fast. We just got to thank everyone that came out to the podcast tour because it was insane, mark like crazy.
I believe it. It was nuts.
I mean, the crowd was amazing. Everyone asks awesome questions, interaction. I felt like we were comedians but also therapists. And then I sang songs. It was the cool It was the coolest the three day thing we've ever done. We shout out to everyone that went because it was insane and just I loved every second of it.
Virginia and New York, Boston, everyone showed up and it really just it felt like a party every night, like it was crazy. Like after the whole run, Jane and I are just in the back of the bus, like what just happened?
We just couldn't believe people showed up. It was cool.
It was really cool, right because you.
Do this show in a room it's three other people, like it was if anybody's listening to it, and then.
You go and all these people are there cheering for you.
That's so great.
It was crazy, and people like laughed. It was I don't know, it was just really cool. People laughed, they did they laughed. And I don't want to say some of the bits. But like our opening song, we can't talk about it just in case if we do another few dates, because the opening song that Michael walks out to is hilarious.
It's perfect.
It's the funniest thing ever. But again, sorry, Mark, we can't share it because.
Those are only for the live viewers.
But they know what we're talking about.
Uh.
I'm really excited because we're about to move.
Yeah we are. You're sad.
I am getting sad really Yeah?
Why? Well, because because it's sixty five seventy here and it's going to be ninety five and miserable and natural. Yeah. Same.
Michael's driving his truck cross country in a few days, so that's going to be interesting.
Yeah, that'll be fun. Me two dogs and my brother.
Well, I've got the kids four days, so which one.
Yeah, Gianna keeps throwing that at Me's like I'm gonna be stuck with the kids. I'm like, if you want to switch, by all means, go drive two thousand miles across country.
Now. I would love to be the passenger because I would want to stop along the way and see things like I would want to do the Grand Canyons again and do that route, and then maybe I don't know, to stop at like all the cool little touristy things like the big hay ball or a haything, the.
World's biggest ball of yarn or something like that.
I just find that stuff super interesting, and like, I don't know, there'd be such quality time. And I know that you also love quality time.
I love quality time. But yeah, I drew the short straw.
I don't. You're riding with your brother, though, which I think is really cute. Michael has a brother that's fourteen years younger than him, so.
He's about to graduate high school. So before he goes off to college, him and I are going to have this road trip together, which is gonna be a really cool memory.
Are you guys gonna, you know, talk about well, I'm sure he's already had the He've already had the sex talk with him.
He's eighteen.
Yeah.
Oh and his parents did find condoms right?
Yes?
Oh god, sorry Jack good. He doesn't listen.
No, he doesn't.
Well on your drive, y'all give you this.
It's funny. It's probably not even his friends. His teachers probably listen.
Oh gosh, I just okay, let me talk about this really fast. We were at I was at a friend's house and the kids were playing and I don't know what to do. Mark, this is interesting. I kind of want you to pipe him because you have kids older. So it was arranged so Jolie's. Three of the girls was four, one of the boys was five, and I took a call in the other room because I was kind of the mom that was staying down stairs with the kids, and all of a sudden, the kids like,
do you want to live? Or do you want me to kill you? Do you want to die? And I'm like, he didn't just say that, And so I walk back in the room and he's just like, you can go to heaven or I can kill you. Do you guys want to die? And I just thought that was super inappropriate.
Wow, right, yeah, I'd be horrified by it.
Okay, I go whoha, whoa, whoa.
I go, you can't.
I was like, that is very inappropriate language and he's like, no, it's not, and I said, yes, it is our daughter. My daughter's three. I don't want her hearing that, so please stop talking about the D word, thank you. But then I start thinking about it, like should they know death? And like that's the thing. I what age is he talking?
He doesn't really know what that means? He's five? He was five, so he said.
I believe he's five. Yeah.
Right, so that's that age where it's you're impressionable, right, so you probably hear something.
Well, And the girls were like laughing. I'm like, that's not funny. We're not laughing about death, guys, because.
They don't know what. I don't really understand.
Yeah, but the way he was saying, he's like, I'm going to kill you.
Oh.
I mean, regardless if I'm understanding it or not, he needs to know not to say that period ever.
So where is he hearing that?
That's exactly like You're like, but kids, that's what I'm just scared of. I those kids know things sooner now. But to say I'm going to.
Kill you, that's up to that's the thing that's up to the parents. That's that's parenting. That's what that is. It's not not parenting. Like if your kid ends up saying that you did a bad job, but if you don't talk about it and fix that, then that's bad parenting.
I like it.
It just made me really uncomfortable.
I bet a lot of those things have come up over the years where something will come up with like, oh, we don't talk about that, But then in the back of my mind, I'm like, should.
We be talking about that?
Should they know about yeah?
Because I mean, that's one of the saddest things about being a parent, in my opinion, is when they realize that the world isn't rainbows and unicorns. Right when they're three, everything's wonderful in the world. The world is parks and play dates and chicken nuggets and television and everything's great. And then they start to realize that there was a nine to eleven and that there are people who shoot people and kill them in public places, and that's the stuff that when they start to realize.
That stuff, it's heartbreaking.
Yeah, But when are they ready for that, and when do you talk about this, When do you stop shielding from that? And should you ever shield them from that? And that's the part I've always had a hard time, So what did you do? We've shielded them from that, We've made the decision to kind of keep that away from them, and then they kind of will learn about it in school, they'll learn about it in the world, and then they'll come home and ask us about it,
and then we can talk about it. I don't know if that's the best thing.
It may not be, but I think to your point, I see why it would be the best thing, because if you and your wife have offered an inviting, a a comfortable environment for them to bring those kind of things to you, then I think that backs up y'all's kind of theory behind it. Now, if you didn't, if you didn't have a comfortable household for them to bring up stuff with you and didn't talk about it, then there's no room for them right space for them to discuss it.
My wife went to a seminar recently that was specifically about sex talk and how do you do that with your kids? And the main lesson from the teacher or whatever you call them. Was that when they come to you with questions, you answer them honestly and it's no big deal because it scares us because when they come to us and ask a question that we can feel like is completely inappropriate about specific sexual acts.
Yeah, I don't know what that is.
You know, that's our instinct. This guy, I don't want to talk about that. But that's not the right move. The right move is oh, yeah, that's what this is. And yeah, people do it, yeap deal, No, it's no big deal.
We know it's crazy. So I this isn't a plug. But I partnered with a company of Committee for Children and it was all about kids. Ninety it was eighty nine or it was like ninety percent of kids know their abuser when we're going sexual, which is like the whole stranger danger thing, like that's not even a that's that's actually myth.
And I was already meth this is not as impactful as people that are close to you.
Well, no, I mean I was taught stranger danger.
Oh yeah, I think you all are, which people they should kids should still not go with a stranger. I shouldtill understand that.
But that's talking to your kids about like how to it was. It's actually really cool if you guys should look. It's called hot Chocolate talk dot org. But it's about how to talk to your kids about because Jolie pointed to my privates and I was like, what is that? And I was like, oh, it's mummies, like hu ha, Like I just made up a name, and I was like, I probably should name it, like actually, give it the proper name.
Yah, that's what we were told to give it the name, give.
It the name, give it the yeah, and say he's got a penis. I don't know if we can say that on air, but it's it's just very interesting because you want kids to be able to talk to you, But I think it's so awkward and uncomfortable for us to have those conversations because I'm not ready to talk to Joli about death. I want her to be right. I don't want to, which I think is okay.
It's hard to talk about stranger danger because then then I say, well why why, Well, somebody met one people in this world who might want to take you, and then why would they want to take me?
Well, I don't want to talk about that part. You know, it's weird. It's a tough thing.
It's just starting to get real complicated and starting to kind of stress me out a little bit because I don't want to do it the right wrong way. I want them to be able to come and talk to us, but then it's also scary, and I just like, ugh.
I don't like it.
I think I don't know what to do.
Kind of what Mark was touching on is like, I feel pretty comfortable in having those conversations. I honestly don't think I'll be that uncomfortable. I think it's because it is just you just say it like it is, because you don't want to make something taboo, right, you don't want to create this like secret thing around it, and then it all of a sudden becomes that urge for people to do Oh, I want to do this because it's taboo, it's wrong.
And you don't want them to learn about it from their friends at school, right because they're going to get inaccurate information.
Absolutely.
I don't know why, but the death thing is just really freaking me out a really hard time.
That it's really hard, especially with today's the environment of today's society, with everything going on, that's terrifying to.
Hear and also our girlfriend. I know, we just like got negative. We'll bring it back up, but I just it scares me in today's society because a very great school in Nashville where our kids are most likely going to go to elementary or high school. One of the kids sent a picture because my girlfriend crawled and told me this send a picture to a friend saying, look how many guns I can fit into my backpack? Don't go to school tomorrow.
Oh my god.
And that isn't a one of the top places school, like they're ranked ten in Nashville or Brentwood, And it's like, holy crap. That's like even I'm like, oh god, I'm like terrified to send Joel to school.
Yeah, that's one of the things. Actually when this came up, Jane and I were talking about it, where like the relieving part to get out of La County is, you know, the homeless, the chances of things happening just playing a numbers game. And if you think about a terrorist attack, right, it's gonna be La Chicago, New York. You know, big cities, right.
You think the chances of a terrorist attack in Nashville are you know, smaller than major city, right, God willing but the school stuff can touch anywhere anywhere.
How in freaking Brentwood, Tennessee. Yeah, just makes me really sad. And then I'm like, is it the parents? Is the kids just being funny? Because that sort of ended up being the kid just thought it was funny. That's not whoever thinks that. If my daughter thinks that's funny, I'm going to I'm in the ground over the rest of her life. That's not funny.
So the parents and teachers got involved and investigated.
The situation the whole Thank you he was joking. Yeah, I mean it's like, who thinks that's funny?
Like we're talking to our friend who told us this. We're like we all agreed, like that kid should get locked up for a few days, just giving scared straight, give them twenty four hours in a cell, Like look, dumbass, I don't care how how funny you think this is, how old you are you do this. You got to pay a little bit something like a little bit more than a slap on the wrist, Like this isn't good. Just it's just too sensitive.
I would expel the kid. Yeah, if I was a principal, because I'm always Michael always makes fun of me. But I always say, like, in your right brain, how did you think this was right? Like, we had an issue with a few things in our house, So I always like to know people's like thought process. So my thought process for the kid is like, how did you think this is funny? Because all these kids have lost their lives and I don't know. I just get really upset
about that. All right, we have an awesome in studio guest today, Krishelle Hartley. Before we talk to her, though, let's take a quick break, all right.
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Just text Janna to thirty thirty thirty. Okay, So in studio we have the gorgeous Chrishelle Hartley.
Thank you.
You're like, like genuinely beautiful, Like you're so pretty. Stop, that's so nice.
Thank you so much.
You're so pretty. You're obviously you.
There we go Battle of the beauties.
You're more pretty.
Well when you just see someone from Instagram, I'm like, oh, I'm excited to me and you you look better in person, if that's possible. Normally it's the opposite, babe, I love you.
Been here. So you are married to Justin Hartley. I am how long you as married for?
Uh, we'll be married in October two years, but we'll be together.
Six sex okay. And then you guys met on a soap, right, No, actually you did soap?
So I did, okay, And I was working with one of his best friends on Days of Our lif and he his first job ever was on Passions and so they.
Were best friend fashion. That was my guilty pleasure, and then it just ended and I was like, no.
I know.
So I was working with his friend on Days of our Lives and he asked him to kind of like, what's the deal? You know, she's single, and so the friend is actually a terrible matchmaker because he didn't tell me that at first, and I went on to date some really weird people, and then I later on asked him, Hey, what's the deal with your friend Justin? He obviously seems single and very handsome and anyway, and that's when we figured it all out. And so if I hadn't asked, we give him a hard time, like.
Yeah, right maker? And how long was he divorced before you guys?
Two years?
Okay, So then Isabella was.
She was nine when I came into her life.
She's the sweetest, by the way, I really is. She's so sweet. Oh hello, Justin. We did a movie together years ago.
I remember what we saw.
So I'm at the and that's where I met her daughter, his daughter, y'all's daughter. Yeah, and she's really sweet. But I'm curious, like how that was going in at that age.
So actually I think nine years old was that. I don't know every other person's experience, but I can only speak for mine. It was a great age because she looked at me and she liked my dress, and she liked my hair and she didn't it pretty yeah, So, and I used to be a camp counselor and the little girls were like that same age group, perfect, so it was kind of an easy fit in the beginning. And then you know it's not. You know, you go through different things throughout when they start to grow and
those kind of things. But I will say the beginning, I feel like I got I got out a little easy because she was just so enthralled with, you know, my purse or my shoes or my hair. So I had an easy audience.
How has the co parenting been with the other lady?
Yes, so, you know, I feel like she's you know, you know, well, I feel like probably a lot of your listeners are gone through the same thing. And it's a process, you know, it doesn't it's not always something
that's like the easiest thing. And then you learn and you grow and everyone kind of like gets their own boundaries, and as time goes on, then it ends up just being your normal and hopefully that's something that you know, you want it to be healthy for the child obviously, so that's if that's everyone's goal, then you've you've got it made.
And how is it when you when you are in that situation kind of getting to the point where because obviously, you know, she's a part of your life and she's your kid too at this point, right because you're married to Justin. So at what point did you start to feel where you could kind of be a disciplinarian and kind of take on that motherly but not stepping over boundaries like I have. I really feel like that's going to be difficult for.
It is it is, and I feel like I connect with any other you know, parent in my place because it's really tough. You know, I have to try and play like you know, sometimes i'm her friend and she'll ask me questions that she wouldn't feel comfortable asking her parents.
And so I've had to go from not having kids to all of a sudden jumping into the like, oh my god, I've answered some of the most uncomfortable like coming of age, you know, those kind of questions where I'm like, Okay, how do I explain to her what this is? I don't know if I'm allowed to say all I had to explain what sixty nine was.
We were just talking about this.
It's one of those things. It's like, you're right, it's she they're making jokes about it at school, So what do you not? You have to tell her because she's going to figure it out one way or the other. So it's like, Okay, what's the best way I could explain this?
How did you explain that?
Oh?
Lord, I believe it was else. Please, I know, because we have a three and a half and a five month old or six month old. You guys have a while, so like, I need some bullet points.
I I said, I believe it was you know, it's when someone wants to kiss someone's private air. Oh my god, I'm so uncomforabed. At the same time, exactly, I tried to make it as clinical as possible. Face, why want to do actually exactly what she said?
Yeah, when would you say?
I said, you got me? People are so weird.
I don't know.
Wow, I can't watch you squirm and you have to tell.
You confrontation like that stuff just really gets me. Okay, So yeah, I just I mean, that would just be really hard. I feel like I would be the worst because when we were thinking about divorcing. When about divorce, but I was I had my number one thing, and this is what my girlfriend, especially Catherine, I said this to her a million times. I was like, I don't
want another woman raising my child. And now, but that's the thing I and it's nothing against the other woman, because that's also great for the child to have two strong women. But I just looked at it from such a like territorial like she's mine. But like at the end of the day, I'm like, what a blessing that Bella is to be able to have two strong women in her life.
And I think that guide natural thought, and I think that's why it is probably a lot tougher in the beginning, in the beginning until you start to it starts to become your normal. But of course that's that's everyone's natural instinct.
And I think, you know, coming into that position and knowing that and kind of you know, and also I'm sure it's difficult for it's you know, it's just something that you slowly grow and adapt and then hopefully and luckily that's where we are now, where everything is we try and all work together, and you know, it's it's nice to have the extra hands and the extra help
and somebody. Now it's kind of a bonus where it's like, you know, you just have more people involved, and more people that love her, and more people that are trying to make sure she grows up to be a wonderful human being. So it actually is a positive. But of course, in the beginning, I'm sure many people don't feel that way, and that is totally understandable. Chrishelle, she just.
Cause it, Yeah, okay, because that would be like something I'd like, you cannot call something.
I can see that at that age, at nine years old, I wouldn't assume that they that she would call you mom or ever necessarily call you mom. But if it was in Jana in that situation, you know, back when we talked about divorce.
A week ago, ya kidding, you know.
If it's an infant, it's like, how do they not call?
Because that's person's technically you know, from the ground up, don't right, That's.
What I'm saying. It'd be hard to not call someone who's raising you a mom or dad. Yeah, from that.
Age, joining when I did again she was nine, I kind of took the role of like her friend and like, so there are where like if there needs to be disciplined, that happens a lot of times. I'll just you know, debrief her dad when he gets home and kind of like talk to him because I just feel like, I don't know. It's I'm probably not. I don't know. Probably
a lot of other people did better than me. I tiptoe around things because I just don't want to be in a position where I am stepping on toes or whatever. So maybe I veer too far on the other side of that, but I think it's better safe than you know, wishing you hadn't done or said something I don't know.
So before we talk about your Netflix series, I heard you have a really cute story about your name.
Oh o god, Well, I'll let you decide it's cute or ridiculous. But in a nutshell, So, my mother went into labor when she was getting her car worked on. Remember when the shell station saw it were also a mechanic shop. Yes, okay, So she was getting her car worked on, and all of a sudden she goes into labor and the guy there helping her, the mechanic He was holding her hand and calming her down and called the ambulance. So I was not born in a shell station.
I just have to clarify. That's kind of what I ended up seeing on the internet that did not happen, but she wanted to name me after him because he was so lovely and his name was Chris.
Stop it Chris.
Chris amazing, And a lot of people are like, well, there's Christina. There's a lot of other Chris names. But if you know any of my other sisters, they have very unique names. I have a Shonda, Tabitha, Carissa, Sabrina. So Christina would not have worked in our family, so she went with Krishell.
That's fantastic.
I love think it's a great story. So you actually watched the docu series? No, I haven't yet, but put on your queue.
Yeah, I put on my on my list to watch. Yeah, because I love like Million Dollar Listing La and New York. I love that kind of stuff, and so I haven't watched it yet, but I'm excited to.
It's got some great property.
To tell us a little bit about it, so.
I feel like it will appeal to what they called again. It's called Selling Sunsets, Selling Sunset and it's a very binge worthy show on Netflix, and it basically is Million Dollar Listing meets Laguna Beach or The Hills. I don't know if you've seen either of those.
Are the drama. So are there other than beautiful real estate agents?
Yes, they're gorgeous, and unfortunately there is some drama. So they were such a tight knit group working together for a really long time, and I joined as a newbie. You're hated, right, I got a little hazing. I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, So you kind of watch me go through the process of kind of falling on my face but then kind of figuring it out and learning as I go. And you also get to see these amazing properties.
It's kind of a bird's eye view into this luxury market that not everybody would get to see but on these shows, you know. So, I think that's why they're so popular, because people really want to see that, because who's going to go spend forty million dollars on the house? Very very very few people. However, we all want to see what it looks like, like.
Oh yeah, we zillow it all the time to be there's a nice skating rink in there.
I always think I'm like, the tax is alone on a house like that.
I always think, I'm like, what do these people do?
Exactly what you have to be like assaultant?
So those are the houses that you're selling are forty million dollar houses?
Well, okay, the cump because I was like saying, girl, if anyone's listening and wants to buy, when I there is one on the market, I'm happy to show it to you. Qualified virus license, I do all yeah, And so I live in the valley, and I feel like I tend to work a little more in the valley, but I also you know, if you have your license, you can work wherever. It's just that that is the
area I'm a little more passionate about. And I know all about the school districts and where you can get the best cup of this and the best bowl of that. So I tend to have more clients in the in the valley, but mine are The highest thing I've sold so far is five million, which I'm amazing.
That's fantastic.
But at my company, yeah, it goes all the way up to like fifty million, so it's great.
So I'm selling Sunset is just in a part of it at all? Or is he like I don't want to be part? Like what like how much do they show your outside lives?
So some of the girls do show their outside lives, But at first it was a conflict because you know, he's under contract with Fox, and so we were trying to work that out, and then it kind of became once the show started filming, there was drama with I didn't I thought I was doing a real estate show in the beginning. I didn't know that.
This was gonna have drama.
So by the time we started fleshing out what his availability would be if he you know, got it cleared, I realized she knew what Maybe it's best that we keep these two things separate because I really like my personal life. I'm so protective over it, and you know, I mean marriage is hard enough on its own. I don't need an added force adding any kind of you know, outward drama at all. So I feel like it that's kind of what happened. So he, you know, there's like
an intro and intros. You know who I'm married to. It's not a secret at all. And I talk about him, yeah, you know, in my interviews and stuff. But he's not featured on the show.
So when did you stop acting or are you still acting?
I'm still recurring on Days of Our Lives right now, and and I actually have a movie coming out on Netflix June twenty fifth called staged Killer. Okay, so you know what, it just kind of comes and goes, and is.
There one that you're Are you more passionate in the real estate or are you like, where's your where's your focus?
So, I mean, I always grew up wanting to be an actress, so I'm more passionate doing acting. But what happens is you can't really pick and choose when you work, and so I wanted something else. So I'm not going to lie and say I'm as passionate about real estate. But I've come to really love it. It's kind of one of those things that like grew on me and now I really enjoy it. At first, it was like, you know, you're taking all these tests and it's people are wasting your time, and it's kind of a kind
of a headache. And now as I'm in entrenched in the process, and now I really have people that I've worked with that I've loved, and these amazing moments that you get to hand somebody their first keys to their first home. It's pretty important and special. So now I love it.
I think. I mean, I definitely can relate because you know, obviously my main goal is I want to be on a you know, a TV show, get back on a show, because I was on a show for a couple of years and that's the steady income that I want. But unfortunately, like you said, we can't pick and choose and you
have to we have to support our family. And it's there's certain things that I'm doing that make the money, but that's not one hundred percent what I'm actually passionate in doing, right, But you find the passion in it exactly. So that's where it's like you found your passion with the real estate, and both things can be okay. That's why the things I'm doing the side, I'm like, yes,
do I love love doing this? No, But I'm loving doing it because I'm finding I have to find the passion in it because I want to be able to enjoy everything.
Then and it empowers you when you can, you know, be in charge of when you work and when you don't. As an actor, you're kind of a slave too, and it kind of can take a hit to your self confidence if you keep not booking things, you know, and so I just feel like it empowers you when you have a whole other thing and then you sometimes end up booking more because you're like, I don't need this job. It'd be great if I got it, but I don't need to pay my light bill tomorrow.
Right with the busy schedules, I'm sure you and Justin have separate. What do you guys do to kind of come back together and reconnect with you know, to drown out all the noise?
Yeah, Actually he was just in Canada shooting a movie for a month, so that was a little tough. I went up there or for a week, and then when he got back, it was one of those things where I feel like you just kind of have to seclude yourself a little bit, and even if you maybe go out or maybe don't, but just kind of like to reconnect. So it sounds kind of cheesy, you're kind of laying but when you're away that long, you don't want it
to feel normal, you know. So I wanted as soon as we got back together to get back to kind of the way that it felt, where it's like it's not normal to sleep outside of the same bed for that long. So let's like, you know, do we have to take that meeting in the morning. Let's push it back, like, let's stay in but I don't know, little things like that where I feel like we just kind of reconnect, like.
Making intentional time. That's a big thing Jana and I talk about, is like making intentional time for each other, not coming back together and going about your regular day routine. It's like, let's intend to do this together and reconnect.
So, yeah, obviously, you know you were so happy for your husband. Yes, has there ever been that jealousy underneath or that frustration.
No, I have to say, it's not like we ever are going out for the same parts, you know. But I'm so genuinely happy for him because when I met him, he was on revenge and to see him then, you know, kind of assent to this a list actor. And of course he'd always worked before.
I always felt bad for him because he was always the lead of like a pilot, But then the pilot and get picked up ord only ran once. I'm like, God, I'm like, he's such a good actor. He's had such a good look, and so it never really added up to me. So it was it was really cool from an outsider too to see him go.
I think, and again I can only speak for myself, but I think if you have a I think healthy competition in a playful way is a good thing, But if you're actually competitive with your partner, I think that's detrimental. I support him and I want him to rule the world. If he wants to rule the world. There are times where he has offers. It's like, if you want to do that, I will. I will get behind you one thousand percent. But if you're not going to be happy
doing that, who cares. You don't need any more of whatever. Do it if you want to. And I feel like he does the same for me, so you know, I have to say it's definitely just one of those things where we're not in competition with each other. The only times we compete against each other is like when it's for fun. If what we'll get, like if you get us in a game night, then.
We'll see you there.
We're the same way.
Can we get into the biggest arguments of game nights because we get so into it?
Yeah, we're probably too into it because then we leave getting actually mad at each other and take it too person's only New Year's last year, Yeah, that was no good. So I've always been curious about that when people are in the same kind of profession like you and Justin and whether Jan and past relationships with people and music and acting, how that relationship is with being competitive. Do you think there's I'm asking both of you guys, do
you think there's couples out there that are like that? Like, just for an example, Ryan Gossen and even Mendez, I feel like ever since they've been together, like even Mendoz hasn't really done anything. Do you think that's a testament to them agree like, hey, you take a back seat, let me do my thing, or I'm just curious from you all. Y'all are professionals in this world and around those kind of people. Do you think that takes place?
I mean, I'm sure it does. I know what Jen and Ben did was like she would take a role, he would take a role. It's kind of what I've heard, like everyone kind of goes. I mean, even like our friends that we just met, Like right, someone's having a show. It's like, all right, then now you need to take the next whatever time off.
Right.
But that's what I will say. I was when I was in the relationship. I was super jealous, but it was only because from my insecurities, Whereas I had insecurities because I'm like, well, I want to be doing that, I want to be up on that state. I like, why why don't I have that crowd like? And then so then I but that was all my insecurities feeding into which ended up ruining the relationship because I was so insecure and think and I think.
That's that's part of it, where it's like I can see that. But luckily because when I was in a bad place and I wasn't working, and that's actually when I decided to get my real estate license because I had to. You know, I'm not one of those people that just wants somebody to pay for me. Like I take a lot of pride in always having been, you know, a self made person and paying and supporting myself and my family because.
You came from a homeless background, I did.
So well, yeah, what happened well And just basically just to say, in that scenario, instead of being jealous, I was so thankful that he was able to be there for me when I was in a place where I had never been able to count on. You know, my family, they come from nothing, so I couldn't ever have any help financially from them, So to have him be able to financially like be there for me while I went and got my license. So it was the opposite of that. I was just so grateful that he did that as
opposed to the competition part of it. And then as far as my family goes, they you know, we're from we were homeless several stints in our life, and you know, it's just kind of something that we I lied about for so long because you know, you're embarrassed, and I was a kid in school and I missed a grade. And so anyway, now to be able to have a platform and it's covered on the show in a beautiful way, I think, and now I'm able to bring a spotlight
to it and talk about it and help others. I have to, you know, I think you have to kind of initially had to get over myself and the embarrassment, and now I'm not embarrassed anymore. It's something that you know, it happens, and it happens to a lot of people.
And I see these people all the time where it's like, you know, I think people have especially living in this luxury la type of market that I work in, people have a predisposition to have judgment about people that are homeless, and you know, I just feel like coming from a family that has kind of dealt with I've never said this before, but a family that has dealt with not just homelessness, but also addiction and different things like that, I sometimes tiptoe about what I say because you know,
it's not just me involved in this story. But there were a lot of factors, you know, so we basically had to bend for ourselves for a certain sense of our childhood. And now I I really appreciate and love that they always said it felt like the best they could with the means that they had. My parents aren't educated,
you know. My dad unfortunately just passed, but he you know, he couldn't read, and so it was just like, you know, there were just so many there's so many people born into these poverty type situations and everything is stacked against you to get out of it. I mean, you don't have so any kind of those programs. I'm so passionate about the programs that are helping people that. You know, I just feel like sometimes when people really have everything
at their feet, they're judging people that don't. And it's like, you know, if the amount of effort that it takes to get from that spot where you have no help and to pull yourself out of it. I just I want to help all those people that I can, because it's you have no idea how much it helps their lives to just kind of give them a hand as opposed to, you know, just blowing them off and thinking that, you know, get it together. I don't know if I spoke very.
No, that was brilliant. I think to your point, it's sometimes it's unfortunately out of their control, right, Like it's easy to say, hey, get your together. World. There's probably fell apart, not because of them, but because of the environment that they're brought into. And that's can't blame somebody for that, like you're saying. And so kudos to you for being as strong as you are to pull yourself out of that and to be successful you know everything that you're.
Doing, and everyone go to upwardboundhouse dot org to help give back.
Yeah, it's actually, if I can just say real quick, it's a it's what I love about them. They don't just give you a place to stay. They for a whole year that you're there. They give you classes that they give you childcare while you go interview, they give you interview clothes, they give you an apartment to stay in, and so they're not just here's here's a bed, you know. So that's why I those are the kind of places that will change someone's life.
Yeah, they're trying to help and to grow. I think there are our only you know how we've because we've talked about homeless and honestly not in a respectful way at times, but we had someone we tried to do this giving back challenge and we gave a bunch of food to a homeless person. He's like, oh, no, I don't eat that stuff. And for us, we're like, well,
why wouldn't they? You know. But it's so it's that was kind of a tricky situation for us because we're like, we're trying to give back and then they're being picky about I don't know right, And.
I've had that happen before. You know, you you go to give like what you think is like amazing, and then yeah, I've actually done the same thing. I think the best thing if you want to give is to find these kind of organizations. And there's food on foot, there's a word boundhouse, there's my Friend's Place. I work with all three of those places that are all that's about rehabilitating, right, and.
Because those people really want they're willing to they want to change or not to check, but they want the help and they need the help.
Yeah, and there's ways to work the program where if you really use what they provide you. I think some of one of them has a ninety five percent success rate upper Bound House of once you go into their facility for the year that you're there, ninety five percent success rate of not being homeless again. Wow, So that's really amazing.
Do they do any of these programs like upper Boundhouse or the other ones that you mentioned, Do they focus on any kind of addiction tw addiction twelve step concept too?
Because this might be a stereotype or whatever, but from your experience and working with these programs, are there a lot of people that are addicts that may not know that come into this and want to get help, But then you know, the professionals they are realizing they have addictive tendencies or whatever is their correlation there.
That's a great question. My Friend's Place and Food on Foot both accept people in that are whatever however you come in. Is how you come in and they will help you no matter what, and they will help you really truly. These people are so passionate. They're volunteers and they're so amazing. They deserve all the praise because they're in there every single day volunteering and they are providing them with resources to really change their life if they
want it. Upward Bound House is a little different, you know, because they house children as well, so I think you have to be really careful past drug tests. So I work with both kinds, one that does not accept them and one that does. But they're both important, you know, and obviously it makes sense they're accepting small children, so you have to you have to start seeing it.
Yeah. Wow, Well you're just like inspiring all around. You're not only beautiful, but you're smart and you're encouraging and we just can't thank you enough for coming on the show. Watch Selling Sunset, it's a docu series for Netflix, and then please give you know, get some more information, especially go visit Upward Bound House dot org. Forshall. Thank you seriously so.
Much, Thank you so much for going on.
Thank you.
All right, babe, So you you went to college, you have, yes, you did, and you have student loans, don't you?
Or you did?
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More money in your pockets less debt. I love it. So Fie awesome. She's so sweet, she's super like very genuine.
Extremely genuine, and I just I love I love her journey make you can tell she's a hustler, yes, and I appreciate that. Instead it's just kind of wallowing or being like, oh, you know, just the spouse up, like she's making a name for herself, and I just she's already had the name, but still like she's she's not stopping. And I really appreciate that.
Driving.
I think that no matter who she's married to, whether it's Justin or nobody, she wouldn't change. Yeah, Like, she just has that passion, she has that grind to do things that she wants to do and nothing's going to change that. Yeah, you can definitely just get you get that from her vibe and her personality is awesome.
Yeah, I agree. I just I really like everything about her. So we should do double date.
Sure?
Anyway, Hey, Mark, do you gt any emails for us?
Well?
This one is particularly pertinent death thought. This is from Holly's thin very what pertinent?
I don't know?
That word is too big for me.
I've been with my husband for ten years now. We started struggling with our marriage and divorce was a daily topic. I started a new job and met a man there. As time went on, we grew closer and closer, to the point that I told him I loved him and we could start life together. I just needed to leave my husband, but I didn't.
Have sex with him.
I didn't kiss this man because my heart I knew it was wrong. One night, my husband recorded me having a conversation with this other man. I confessed and told him everything. I did contact the other guy one last time to tell him it was over. Since then, my husband has been by my side, but I am still living in the mess that I made. He still holds it over my head, has no faith or trust in me, and it's been going on four years and a child later.
I walk on eggshells because I want to show him that I love him, and yes, I want this marriage, but it doesn't seem enough. So what could I possibly do more than I've already tried to get him to forgive and forget this kind of thing. I want him to trust me and love me the way he did ten years ago.
It's a that's hard. I mean, it's a great email. Then thank you for sharing all that. Holly, that's a really hard one because you can't put a time limit on someone's How would I say that someone's process of grieving?
So I know for us, you know hereis there are still times that's just so hard because you don't want to put you don't want to put a time because in ten years, like just when we talk to Jason and Shelley about it, this will They're like, we're still talking about it and it's fifteen minutes, fifteen, fifteen years.
Yes, this will be a part of their life no matter what.
Now do you think it sounds like maybe he's not well, I'm.
Just gonna I'm curious. Do you think the emotional aspect cuts deeper than the physical because she didn't According to her, she didn't do anything physical with him, but she told him that she loved him and talked about starting our life together.
I think again, it just depends. I would Well, I'm asking you if I did that, what would be harder me? Just having physical relations or an emotional relation from a guy?
Say point, I mean, obviously neither one of them are great. But I think the physical thing, with the physical there's I feel like there's fixable issues because it was probably like a a time frame or something specific that caused the person to go outside the marriage with the with the emotional I worry about can this ever be repaired? Like will you ever love me because you fail for another man? Like you told another person you loved them and you wanted to start a life with them.
But maybe she truly didn't. I know, I've said I loved you as people and I didn't really love them. I just was needing a I was just needing that emotional connection, you know what I mean. Yeah, So but again that's hard for a husband to unsee that and get that.
Yeah, but.
I just you know, you guys obviously have another kid. You bren another kid into the world. So I think it's one of those things where you know, you just you can't put the time on it. But also there's got to be some growth on his side too to try to Yeah, and.
The fact that she even says the way she says it, he still holds it over my head.
Yeah, So that's something where it's like, that's not that's.
Different than expressing yes, all right, hey honey, you want to go out with your friends. Okay, But here's my fears. Yeah, because of what happened. That's the way, Yeah, saying hold it over my head. It's like, no, I don't want you to do that. Because I don't you're probably going to do this. Yeah again four years in a child later. You know, I'm sure she's just based on that she's trying to show. I make up that she's showing that she loves him and wants her life with her husband.
Well she's still there.
Yeah right, I'm saying, like through her actions.
Mark, what do you think?
Well, obviously, I mean, look, she broke his heart.
If I'm putting myself in his position, it's it's it's just it's just profound sadness. It's heartbreak, it's it's a betrayal, it's why.
Wasn't I enough? It's all that stuff. But I don't know that it gives him the right to be a dick to you remember the rest of your life?
Yeah, you have to. That's the part where he has to start, you know.
Yeah, I think I think I don't know if you guys are in therapy, but I know that you guys have gotten great results from that sort of thing, and I think that will help him get over those emotions of being so jerky about it. He doesn't have to do that anymore, and maybe that's how you guys get tart together. But like you guys said, it's just time. Yeah, time is gonna He's not going anywhere, and that's great. It's great that he's not going anywhere. It's not great
that he's got this. He's still holding it over your.
Head, which could be enticing him to not go anywhere because he feels like he has this power and control of the relationship, right, and so you know, if they're not going to therapy number one, they definitely should. And he's probably hasn't owned anything that he's done where maybe he had something to do with driving her away, but he's still holding on to it. Again, just based off the vernacular she uses, it doesn't seem like he's like, well, what could I have done to to not push her away?
It doesn't seem like he's doing that at all, which he needs to, right because divorce was a daily topic before this happened, right, so obviously there's issues. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, just seems like he's still fingerpointing as opposed to being like, is there something I could have done? Like you know, you for you, it took you a while, it took you, you know, some time, but you got to the place eventually where it's like, well what can I do different?
You know?
And it takes time.
But four years down this place now, not before.
No, I'm not saying like immediately after. It takes some time, but four years down the road. Again, everyone's different, everyone's timeline is different. But I'd like to think that they should be in a place, or hopefully he'd be in a place to start to look at himself.
Can I mention something that kind of came up at the podcast tour that kind of has still stuck with me, that's bothered me a little bit about the kind of this topic. Sure, I'm kind of interested to see Mark's point of view too. So I had asked our guests and then I kind of asked Michael, I said, what would be your marriage deal breaker? And he had said
if I cheated on him? And so, after everything we've been through, after everything we've been through, if you cheat on me, And I'm thinking to myself, I get that because we've done so much work, but I but still it feels so one sided to me that after me sticking through it because I thought we did a lot of work. And I know, Granton, we've done so much
work now post you know, getting married and stuff. But it's that you would really truly leave me if I cheated on you, And that feels so shallow to me in a way.
I understand why it would, and I understand why anyone male or female, if they're in your position. Why if the other person said, that's like really, like what the f Like? I took you back? I was willing to work at this. Why would that be a deal breaker for me? It's not about the act. It's about if Because we value our communication, we value therapy and discussing
on what's going on in our life. If we got to that point where you weren't talking about things that were wrong, and you get to a point where you just stuffed it all down and acted out outside of our marriage, then I'd be like, what have we been doing all this work for? Like? Then then that means you weren't doing the work and coming to me and bringing up issues that you have.
So maybe I had my own issues and wouldn't you wouldn't stick. I didn't know that you had your issues before we got married, you know, and it's I'm just plaining Devil's advocate in a get I don't understand that that really bothers me, that that would be your thing.
I'm like, man, after everything I've stuck out with you, and if I have my moment where sometimes because everything we're going through was a lot and maybe that is my way of having my slip, not saying it's right, but like after you know, we might get into a big argument and you might have a medium relapse or something, maybe not even a physical but and if I go on, I'm like, I'm like, you're gonna leave me because of that? Like that for it just really like bothers me.
Just like we talk about a lot on this right, you don't know what you're doing in this situation until you're in it. All I'm saying is because of all the work and all the time and all the therapy we have put into this.
Just terrupts me.
And which I understand. I understand why I would I do I empathize with that.
Because I'm like, I can I can still grow with because again, everything that we've been through, I could foresee maybe one day Not saying I would ever cheat on you, but having being so like, you know, what ef.
It right again? Because of all the things that we do to prevent those things, But.
What if we didn't? What if? Likes said, But I'm just saying that to me just feels Mark, do you have any insight on that? And because you're just kind of staring at.
It, trying to hang back on.
I do think it's silly to think that there will never be any more problem. It's because you're putting in this work, which is great, and you're working together on this, There's still going to be problems.
Along the way.
I still might be holding resentment to you, and I still have resentment, but in some day, one day that might flare up more and I might be weak just like you've been weak. And but yet to know that my partner, after all this stuff would leave me from a weak moment like that just feels so like, Man, what is this then? That you wouldn't fight through it with me to get back to a good place again, Because I honestly will say, I mean, it's just that's just.
I don't know.
I think he would. Honestly, I think he'd leave. I don't I do I think he would.
Because the fact that he even said that because he had no I but I'll tell you, I'll tell you this would have been my answer, because I wouldn't have said if you cheated on me again. It would be if you if you continuously were defensive or or or so ink like I can't live in that kind of household, right, that would be my marriage deal breaker, not if he cheats again. Okay, so that's what else?
People?
All right, But.
I mean where again, what else would mine be?
Oh?
Gosh, I could I could shame you twenty four to seven?
I could, Yes, you know, I guess that would be a deal. But we're past that.
We're not.
That's what I'm saying. Like there might be days that I.
Still yeah, and you still have those moments, but it's not like it was at the beginning. If you still shame me now like you used to, Yes, and I even told and I even contemplated that stuff then where I was like, I don't know if I can stay in this because of that. But we got past that. So you said, like from this point moving forward, if you just randomly started to shame in me all the time like you used to, then yes, but that's not
what's happening. So the only thing I could I could come up with is if you did that, it would just be really hard after all of the work that we've done. That's like now if I if I relapsed physically.
But you'll say, well, it's an addiction.
I've never used it as an.
Excuse, but you have. You're like, you know, I'm an addict. This is a possibility, you said.
Right, because I could never say never.
Right. But you're saying, but in therapy, you'd say, like, well, I said, you know, but I wouldn't.
Expect you But I wouldn't. I wouldn't write that off and expect you to be okay, I wouldn't, you know what I mean. So, but I'm saying, if if I did that, you're telling me that you wouldn't have a really hard time staying.
It wouldn't be the reason I left.
I didn't ask that, we say, would I asked that. I didn't ask that. I said, would you have a really hard time staying?
Of course I would, right, But that wouldn't.
Be because of why, because of all the work that we've done.
Well, No, because of the principle. Yeah, but it's you know, that's not for me, But that's not my deal breaker.
But you would still be a really hard It would be really hard for you determine whether to stay or not.
That doesn't that's not my deal breaker though, And that's okay. We have different ones. It's just I'm just having I'm.
Trying to put you in the same position where.
But I would not that would not be my deal breaker. You're trying to like put me and say that I understand it'd be hard decision, but it wouldn't be my deal breaker. And that's what you said, your deal breaker would be.
Okay, let me rephrase then, Jesus, it would be a really hard decision.
Okay, all right, we have to go pick up her daughter. This has been a really good episode.
Note thanks for your email, Holly.
Yeah, thanks, Holli By it's a lot.
We're going to be out.
Oh yeah, yeah,