The Struggle is Real

And it's just it's an absolute tragedy. And I just again I said this the other day, but I I just it's so unfair that any child and Kat we were kind of talking about this, like your kids are actually accustomed to this. They're like, oh yeah, desensitized, desensitized.

It's so sad. It's like, no kids should fear going to school, and we shouldn't have to fear like saying, you know, pick not picking them up, and like even when I said the boye of the kids today dropping them off, I'm like, and I know, KB, You're like, you didn't bring your kids to school for a few Yeah, still not going to school. Yeah, I'll just cry. It's hard. Yeah,

And it's just not fair. I also have the luxury of keeping them home, which I know not a lot of people do so, and I don't want to live out of fear, but I also am just trying to like navigate big feelings. On a side note, big hormones because it makes me really anxious, but keeping them home it just feels like what I need to do right now. So that's what we're doing. Having the talk with Love who's seven, I want to, like, I want her to hear a version of it from me and not from

peers or friends or whatever. I know she's overhearing things and she has this unique way of trying to figure things out for herself, and she doesn't have the brain developmentally at seven to try to figure this out, because I barely have the brain at forty one to developmentally figure this out. So it's just hard and it's just not fair, like we shouldn't we shouldn't have to be

doing this. Well, it's the thing. I think I've struggled with that piece of it, because when I picked up Jolie when I got home from California, I said, hey, baby, I just didn't know how to even go about it, but I said, did you have you heard anything you want to talk to mommy about? And She's like, what,

what do you mean. I go, I don't know, like maybe about like another school, and she goes, what No, And truthfully, I just was like, Okay, we'll just let Mommy know if you did, because I just was like, I don't even want to like scare I don't want to put that into her now. I didn't talk to Ramsey about it. I only talked to the older kids. Emmy had not heard the middle school Caden. They definitely they the teachers. Some of the teachers kind of talk

to them about it throughout the day. I think they took they kind already take their phones, but they took their phones even more kind of kept them from their phones from seeing things that day. And I talked to Emmy about it, but I didn't talk to Ramsey about it. She's seven, okay. I mean I think that that's a that's a parental decision, and I think that that's a hard one, you know, it's you know, whereas my older kids are a little desensitized to it, Ramsey is not yet,

And so I also didn't want to scare her either. Sure, I think it's difficult too, because there's so many things that I just remember. I sent Catherine a text. I'm like, you know, I want to say this because I just

don't understand why. And it's just, you know, seeing kind of how social media and people saying things that just there's such then a war on social media with people fighting well no it's this, No, it's this, No, it's this, And I'm like, it's all of it in my opinion, Like it's like there needs to be changed, and there needs to be I think a certain level of gun reform, and I don't know why we need a fifteens and I would like security at schools, and I would I

believe we need more God, and I believe we need to have something to help with mental health. Like I think there's just so much and it's just like I kind of feel like a small fish and a big gass ocean, Like I don't know, and we're just widening the gap with those kind of dialogues and the frustration

and the fighting. I'm like, we're just doing what this is driven to do to us, instead of going in the opposite direction and like linking arms and going I hear you, I understand, I agree, or you know, like it's it's like we just keep widening such a finger pointing. Yes, well, we're letting evil win. I know, the dark, you know, like you're just you're letting it in when you fight,

you know, Yeah, there was already. I actually had therapy the day after the shooting, and and Amy is very protective of me anyways, because in my childhood anyway, She's like, you've already had to deal with too much too soon. So and she talked to me about the cortisol levels and third trimester pregnancy and effects of baby on the baby, and so she was like, I need just you know, like we need to manage that for you. But I told her, I was like I just don't know what

to do. And so I just made my kids dinner and we took a walk. And she was like, those are all really good things. And she said sometimes sometimes in this like everyone is like, you know, you do this, call your senator, do these things. She was like, absolutely, do those things if you feel called to do those things.

But also just really take care of yourself. I have another Amy therapist friend who said there's a role for everybody in what happens post tragedy, So you shouldn't be hard on yourself because you're not doing one thing or not doing another, like we're not well. People go in your DMS go why are you speaking about this? Why are you saying this? And it's it's like a yeah, And I'm also just like, kindly give me a minute, Like we're trying to process as a family. This is

right up the street. You know, it had been noted that other schools had been targeted too, and that that was on the agenda. So like, that's a lot to take in. We've we just there's just a lot that people don't know that we're all also sorting through and we all know somebody that went to that school or somebody of somebody, so we're trying to find names and faces and we're trying to figure out who it was,

and just you know, a lot to take in. And I just want to say again, we shouldn't have to take it in and we're not supposed to be experts at this because it's not fair. Yeah, and I'd like to have, you know, dropped the kids off and not be like them threatened or like gosh am I going to pick them up? Like they just and even the kids they got there at school. Right now, I'm just yeah, exactly, they had to witness as just shouldn't be happening. I would I wouldn't want to go to school. I'd have

so much anxiety if that was happening. When I was a kid, I remember even after Vegas, I didn't go to shows for a long time. After the Vegas shooting. There was a kid with brass knuckles that got into a big fight in my school, and I remember being like traumatized. Can you imagine what these kids have to deal with now? It's just not okay. Do you remember

being in high school in Columbine how? Yeah, Oh, because I remember that because our high school was very similar to Columbine and saying we had a lot of that's when kind of like all the drills kind of started and they started like working on stuff. So I remember that very vividly. Yeah. One thing that kind of hit home for me is how I know that we've were at past a point is reading that that today's active shooters went through active shooter like drills as elementary kids.

It's a good point. Yeah, heavy, heavy, heavy, I know. And there's a lot of things going around, you know, saying prayers, aren't you know, um, we need more than prayers. But I believe healing happens with prayer, and I feel that we all need a little bit more of it. So man, um, we will be you know, we are sending our prayers and condolences and uh it's yeah, it's it's awful. So to address that, obviously we have to move on with the show. Um, So we will do

that after the break in other news. Um, I don't know if I'm actually supposed to share this information, but I'm going to. Anyways, why do you do it? And if it has to get cut, it has to get cut. Hey Jackie, will you put on your camera? Bab uh poor thing? What's going on? Bhi? So we're gonna we're gonna lighten this up a little. Um our sweet Jackie is like that. Hi guys. Yes, So on Kristen, when you're like oh, I was like me too. I'm only like two months a long how far? How far along

are you now? Was it my seventeenth week? And so I told Jana on Monday in La So, um, yeah, I'm still like I'm showing a little bit but not too much. But I'm do September third, and this is your first yes from cute I feel good. First trimester was really hard because it's like nausea and everything, you

know how it is that's good, that's healthy. Yeah. Yeah, And I've felm feel a little bit more more like myself this trimester and um, and I just kept it a little bit like to myself because I wanted to get through the first trimester because I'm like thirty seven. You know how they tell you after thirty five. I just want to make sure it's stock, you know, like you know how that is in my head. I was

in my head a little bit about that. But yeah, it's it's it's so crazy how they Because I was talking to somebody else, I mean, Chris, and you're what forty one? My mom? I was talking to my mom earlier and she's she was saying something about her one friend and I remember her. She she was like forty and then forty three when she had her next one.

And Emma, my makeup artist in Los Angeles, like she had her baby at forty three, and it's like women feel like they have And I was thinking about that too, because when I was, uh, what, you know, dating my ex, it was like, oh God, I have to get pregnant. It's like, no, you actually have more time than you think. They just put so much pressure and and it's true the eggs and all that stuff do get whatever, like, but you can still get pregnant and you can still

have a healthy pregnancy. So congratulation, so excited for you. It's the baby boy. And oh yeah, I'm excited. I hope he has your cheeks, Jackie, little diffalls are everything so cute. Well, congrats so much. We're so excited for You're right here for all the advice. Oh I know, with the gadgets you don't need and all the gadgets

you do. Yeah, I'm so grateful too, because like im all my friends are on their second kid, and you know, like the community of mama's Like it's so beautiful to me because it's like I'm I'm an auntie of five, so like I can take care of like the kids and all that. But it's like stepping into something else like that. It is a little scary. But the community mamas is so beautiful and I love it. I love it.

And speaking of mama's, we have on Paula Faris, I want to read a little what was it called insert about her? Like so many mothers who were forced out of their jobs during the pandemic. Ferris lost her as

at ABC News in twenty twenty. It was then she knew she wanted to create a better way forward for working moms, Moms who are tired of the constant conflict between working and momming, a feeling that they're failing everyone everywhere, of facing the gender disparities and workplaces that treat mothers like risks instead of assets, end of dealing with the

exhaustion of trying to carry it all. Ferris, is self described advocate for Mom's, launched Carry Media in twenty twenty two to champion working mom through resources, content and storytelling. And I just I love that. So she she has a new book that's out. You don't have to carry it all, ditch the mom guilt and find a better way forward. And I think for me, one of the biggest quotes that I've said, I was like, I don't

want to have to carry it all. That's what I've the constant thing that I felt in my marriage, being a single mom. You know, it's like that, just feeling like I have to carry it all. It's overwhelming. Well, it's exhausting. I actually thought of you as I was reading about Paula. I was like, I just I thought about like the million hats you wear and the pressure that you feel and all the things. I mean, both of you do such a great job. I feel like

get balancing. I mean, I'm a full time stay at home mom, so I just need to like clear that up. I'm not I can do things, but I don't have to do things, which is also a luxury. But I thought of both of you and how well you balance both of it. But just like the pressure of having to work too, Like I don't have to respond to anyone right away. This is really my only job and it's not even a job. I just show up at my friend's house. I mean, but that's hard too. I

think it's like each aspect is difficult. I mean, you know, with sure my situations, like I feel like I have to because I'm like, well, I have to pay for child support. I have to have the roof over their heads. I have to. I don't have to, but I you know, I get to, right, But it's also that pressure that's it's a lot. It's a lot, and then you know, I just so I carry that on top of like, Okay,

a career that's so freaking unstable. Any I was just doing an audition earlier with my boyfriend and I was like, whatever, I don't I'm just like I'm not even gonna get it. And he's like, well, that attitude, you know what I mean, because I don't like coach Allen and that's not a winning attitude hard because you just like sometimes I'm just like I don't and I don't want to work this hard sometimes, Like I know, I would like to just be supported too, you know, in a financial aspect, it's

because it's a lot. It is a lot. I mean, Kat, I know you were kind of dealing with that a little bit with Yeah. I mean that pressure is so different though, like that pressure of having to provide for your family versus you know, being married and then having a job and having that pressure. It's different. I mean I don't have the pressure. I know at the end of the day, if I lost my job, or if I needed to quit my job, or if I didn't

have a job, I would still be supported. So that is very, very different than what you have to deal with. That pressure is a whole different pressure. But yes, I have worked pretty much my entire motherhood. And I just think that, you know, balance is key, you know, I mean, that's just balance is key. That's all I can say, you know. But the pressure of having to provide, that's that's a whole other level. Yeah, so let's get let's get paul on No, sorry, I thought it was one thirty.

Don't you carry that guilt. It's okay, drop the guilt. Drop the guilt, baby, it's time Lately, moms can make mistakes sometimes because we've got a million things we're doing. Apologies again, you can't be late here. It's all good. Don't You're like you're dead to me. This is like the most understanding group of women ever. Like if there was ever a place where you could come in late,

this is it. So yeah, and we're all moms too, so we and we were just kind of talking about to your book because I was, I was, you know, telling the girls and they know this and I know we all feel this, but like, honestly, the quote that I feel like that I've said a million times over and over, that's like plastered on my forehead as I like, I don't want to carry this all the time, Like I feel like I have to carry it all the time,

and it just becomes um, you know what. We all feel that in different situations, right, So like mine's on like the single mom's side, you know, having to support my kids, pay child support, do all those things while still trying to have a career. So like that struggle. And then you know she's got you know, she's a traveling husband who's gone like at least two hundred nights a year with a seven year old was a deep feeler and a four year old boy who's Will Ferrell.

And so I'm and I'm pregnant one. Oh my gosh, congratulations. It's really a feat but yeah, just like I felt it the other day, like I was like, how do I carry all these emotions? It's different, but it's a different responsibility. And then we've got Cat too, who's got you know, kids going into almost high school. I don't remind me, it's just it's busy. It's a lot. How old are yours? Cat? Mine are fourteen? Eleven and seven? Okay, okay, fourteen,

Oh my gosh, fourteen, I'm reading this down. Eleven and seven, Joanna? How old is your seven and four? Little one? We keep it real tight. Over here. We have a season. We just text each other. Okay, so wait, so seven and four both of us. Yeah, that's our girls are three weeks apart and our boys are three months apart. Like we definitely are like, okay, we're having a baby. Okay, great, hands in on three except for the third you're like, okay,

we're done. Yeah, someone some of us bow out and that's just fine, and some of us going to biblical proportions. It's fine. Okay. I have a fifteen a thirteen, I'm like, how old are they not? Fifteen thirteen and just turned nine. Yeah. It's fun. It's fun, and it gets like it gets better. It's a different type of exhausting though, That's what I've heard. So yeah, how and how long have you been married? For? Um going on twenty three years. I'm married my college sweethearts,

very good for years. It's a very like small Christian school thing to do, right, So that's cute. I did that one too. Yeah, see, and how did that work out? I have like like half of my friends are divorced, right, Yeah, I got because you guys, it was crazy. So I went to a real small conservative Christian school and the joke was that everyone was there to get their Mrs. Degree. Oh I was in thirteen weddings by the time I

got married at the riple age of twenty four. Wow, I was like the old maid of the group to get married. So that crazy, that's crazy. It's just times are a change in and with the josh the you know, the job that you have and also had, you know, being on TV. And was your husband, I mean, was he so supportive and he still felt that guilt? He okay, So you know, I write in the book that you know, my story of spousal equity was kind of a rarity,

especially in those conservative circles. You know. My husband was a college basketball coach when we first got married and loved coaching, and then my career started taking off. And when my career was taking off, he said, let's go for this. He was super supportive, and so he gave up his career coaching basketball to follow mine. But of course, you know, it was a joint decision. But we moved from Ohio to Chicago and then to New York, and every time I got a promotion, he's like, let's go

for it. So but that's an exception, you know, like I say, my story of spousal equity is definitely an exception. But he's always been really supportive, really really supportive, and it's cool to see how it's all come back around since I left TV News. You know, coaching has always been his first love and he still has a like a day to day regular job. He's in commercial real estate, but he coaches at one of the area high schools he was asked to coach, and he's also coaching one

of the travel sports teams basketball teams. So it's all kind of come back, which is really cool. Do you miss being on TV and anchoring? You know, it's still funny people ask me that I have a new appreciation, Like when I went back to New York for my media tour, I have a new appreciation for New York and all of that represents as a tourist now that I'm on the other side, I missed. There are certain aspects of it that I missed, the storytelling, you know,

the fast paced aspect of it. But I really love this new season and I love what I'm doing, the work that I'm doing to champion moms, working moms and advocating for them, and I love being able to be really present with my kids. So you know, it's like

when you romanticize the situation and have nostalgia. Like my husband and I were just talking about it, and I'm like, you know, sometimes there are moments I miss it, but I'm like, I miss the feeling, but I don't really miss the reality of it when you really think about it, the reality of getting up early, not seeing my kids, you know, missing out on all the important moments that I wanted to to be part of. So and that's just natural. But I really love where I am right now.

I really do. Does it feel like you it's supplemented in those moments of like missing those pieces. Do you get supplemented with watching him be able to step more back into his role of things he loves to do that's passionate and like being with the kids. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And it's cool just to see how you know, we totally blew up our lives at the beginning of

the pandemic and I left TV News. We both left New York City, moved to a small town in South Carolina, and what we weren't really sure like the next what was going to be in the next chapter, But we just we just knew that this was what we were supposed to do. And it's like we're both super fulfilled. Our kids are really thriving now, and it life's different. It was whiplash because we moved from what eight nine million people to a town of twenty four hundred. I

mean it is small. It is small town, but we love it, we really do. And I think one of the biggest lessons that I've learned is that we have to give ourselves permission to try new things and new seasons. We're like, oh, I have to be this one thing. I have to do this one thing for the rest of my life. I have to be, you know, a country music star, or I have to be, you know, a real estate agent, or I have to be a teacher, I have to be a broadcaster for the rest of

my life. And I just had to realize I had to give myself permission to try new things in new season. So this new season, I feel really called to, you know, advocating for working momster carry. My husband feels really called to, you know, coaching young men on the basketball court and continuing with his commercial real estate business. But giving yourself permission to try new things in new seasons. And that's kind of how I see it, Like I may not want this in five ten years, and that's okay. I

kind of look at life in chapters in seasons. So but we have to give ourselves permission to see ourselves a new capacity and permission for others to see ourselves in a new capacity. And that can be really scary. I like that, what a splash going through it here with my two bodies. Don't mind me. Sorry, by the way, when are you do, Jim? Okay, beginning in a jam? Yeah, it's really it's probably really comfortable to be sitting down right now. Well, we've we have adjusted as a team.

We've adjusted the up angle here, which I really can appreciate because for a long time I was like, hey, this is like my belly button was doing the talking. Oh my gosh. So okay, So what are some of your methods for our like theys A tips for burnout, because I feel like that's a big thing that we all experienced too, is as moms. Yeah, one thing that was really fascinating. So the reason I wrote the book to begin with, and you don't have to carry it.

I'll ditch the mom guilt and find a better way forward. It was my own experience as a mother in the workplace and the experience of so many other moms that it's you, guys, it's not just feeling, it is fact. Once you become a mother in this country, in America, you were paid less seventy cents in the dollar compared to fathers. You're valued less, and you're scrutinized more. You're all of a sudden not seen as a viable leader, You're passed over on promotions. The scrutiny goes through the roof.

That's once you become a mother. And so I wanted to like set up a case for not just how we can give working moms the support they need to deserve, but why we should do it. As a country. More moms are working because they have to. Seventy percent will be the primary breadwinner in their home, and we're carrying out of all of that. You know, we're a marginalized community. And then we're burnout. We're burnt out at record levels levels we've never seen before. It is harder to be

a mother in America than anywhere else. And it's because mainly we don't have a realistic measuring stick of what it means to be a mom here, right, there's nobody that we can really look up to. I mean, June Cleaver kind of set us up for disaster back in the nineteen fifties. And we're still trying to carry it all, and we feel like we can't ask for help because we'll be weak or or it's a sign of failure. So we're carrying all of this because that's the expectation

that you need to carry it all. You need to be a mommy martyr, you'd need to be the perfect Pinterest mother. And we're burnt out. And it's no surprise that we're burnt out. But I think you know, we can burn out on motherhood, which I burn out of motherhood. We can burn out on jobs, we can burn out on our expectations. So there's a lot of different contributing

factors to burnout. And one thing that I've noticed is that when I'm starting to feel like a little crispy where I'm starting to feel that burnout creep in again. Like last summer, I was totally burnt out on motherhood. I wasn't burnout on the work I'm doing. I wasn't burnout on anything else. I was burnout on mothering my children. And you know, once your kids get a little older, you start to carry their burdens and their anxiety and

their relationships and all of those different dynamics. And like you carry, you start to carry all of that and you can burn out on it. And one of my friends said, she gave me some really great advice. She said, when you feel that burnout coming, we'll first recognize that burnout can come from a myriad of different angles. You need to start staying. Yeah, you obviously have to clear your plate and say no to things, but in doing that, you can also ruthlessly say no to the things that

also bring you joy. So she said, she encouraged me. She said, do something for that you really love them just brings you radical joy. And I'm not talking about necessarily a spot. Spot is not going to fix it, but like they know, to certain things and prioritizing but also saying yes to things that bring you a lot of joy. For me, it was something as simple as grabbing a couple of my girlfriends and go taking a Trappi's yoga class, you know, just doing something really fun.

And didn't see that one coming I'm not gonna lie Trappia. Yeah, you know, I was like that. I gotta tell you that was a mad live for me. I didn't You don't see me hanging upside down from with silks, Well I do now, but I didn't say there you think that was going to be where you were going with it. But I think when we think burnout, were like clear your plate, clear your plate. Say no, no, no, you're burnt out. But like I had to realize, I can burn out on my expectations of my children. You know,

I can burn out on being a mother. I can. Yeah, you can burn out in a job. But there's a lot of different things that can cause burnout. And yes, you have to say no, but you also have to say yes to something that just brings you wild and radical joy. And it doesn't have to be anything big. It could be trappy yoga. It could be hey, I want to go fly fishing. That's probably not going to

appeal to you. It could be like, you know, I want to just take a drive, you know, get in the car for like two hours ago on a scenic road trip by myself, and grab a ninety nine cent found drink, you know, on the way. So it could be something simple, but like you have to say yes the things that bring you joy, um, as well to make sure that you know you're taking care of yourself. Yeah, because the opposite swing of that sometimes I think is like the natural like we shut down and then we isolate,

and that's not good either. So it's like the saying no, it's really bad. Yeah it's I whenever I get I just start crying. It's just because I just feel exhausted. Yeah, it alone. I don't want to do it alone. Yeah.

You know what's really interesting? Um? You know, so when I in writing the book, I talked kinds of thought leaders and experts and historians and sociologists, moms from all walks, moms from all over the world to try to figure out like not just how we can support mother's butter and why, but like why is it so freaking hard to be a mom here in America because anywhere else? Mean, yeah they're so mean, but ladies, Yeah, they just make you feel terrible. I'm I'm traveling too much to my kids, this,

that and the other. Like why aren't your kids with you? Wealth because they were with their dad that weekend? I'm sorry, Like that on social media, there's like bunny sandwiches being made and I'm like, like, you give them Chiffy peanut butter. I'm like, I do because I like it. Yeah, I'm guess what I want to do? Yeah, yeah. And I think at the crux of the mommy wars is just a lack of respect for another person's choice and we don't understand. Like I realized, I had so many blind

spots about motherhood. I'm like, oh, a good mom stays home to raise her children, as if a working mom can't raise our kids. I was raised by a stay at home mom, right, But I realized that, like, hey, this isn't the nineteen fifties. Most moms are working now because they have to work. And Jenna, you're a single mom. I mean, we have the largest number of children living in single parent homes here in America than anywhere else

in the country. My book was written by a single mom of three, My publishers a single mom of three, My editor is a single mom, So I understand, like, I understand that tension. But when I was talking with mom global moms, they not only didn't have guilt about working and guilt about motherhood and parenting. They actually took an enormous amount of pride in working, in contributing to the community and contributing to the family. However, the community

was also very supportive. Right their mantra and other countries is I am my brother's keeper. Everyone was invested in raising the children in the community, regardless of whether or not they were their children, because they realized that children are our greatest natural resource. They are the future of this country, and so everyone has vested interest in making sure that this next generation of children rises up. They have policies that support families. Here in America, it is

a stress and strain to raise children. There's there's a thing called a happy gap, which I discovered after interviewing this a renowned sociologist, A happy gap between parents and non parents here in America that doesn't exist to the levels it does here in America. They have a beautiful interdependence. In other countries where they have either family members living with them or there's just this attitude of you better ask me for help, right and said, here, it's like

you feel like it's an obligation. You feel you feel like you're putting somebody out if you ask them well even sometimes even your family mostly oh yeah, yeah, I know it's treated like an obligation, but in other countries is just it's the beautiful interdependence. They don't have guilt. There's structures set up to support families and also to news flash value children because I'm like, here, they're either the future of our country or they're not, so let's

invest in them. But it's just you know. And one of the moms I spoke with she had foreign exchange students from all over the world that would visit her house or visit her home and stay with them every year, and she said the overwhelming feedback from the foreign exchange students was American mothers are working harder than any mothers in the entire world. And it's so true because we're trying to carry it all. We're trying to do it all again, there's no realistic measuring stick, and if we

ask for help, we're weak or we're a failure. So yeah, and there's much a lot of teamwork, you know. Like my when I was my daughter was young, I had a girlfriend who would we would I would go to her house. We would I would drop my daughter off, I would go get my nails done. Then I would come back and she would go get her nails done and we would watch each other's kids, and it was like that's beautiful. It was fun and it was wonderful. She moved home to Georgia to be with her family,

so then I know he system. But it is like I feel I feel sometimes dressed out because I'm like to go leave and do anything cost me like a certain amount of money an hour. I just think that that's totally It's so important, Like both I could say all three of my kids, I have people that I know. I can call on a mom friend be like, hey can you take so and so today? And I'll take them the next day, like we all kind of do. I mean it is a smaller community, but like we

all do that. It's like, yeah, I have a really good friend who works a lot. She's a nurse. She works all the time, and like I don't think twice, like her daughter's like my second daughter. Like anytime you're working, I got her. We're doing this, you know. But everyone doesn't have that mentality anymore. No, the community it's huge, and that's the thing, like we need to ask for help. Yeah, we can wait for society's attitudes to change about our

kids and about our families. We can wait for the policymakers. It's going to take a long time to catch up and actually like create policies that are family friendly. We say we're family friendly in this country, but that's bs. I'm sorry, you know the way that our policies do not support that at all. But what we can do is we can stop carrying it all. We can ask for help. And that's one thing I've learned to do. It's really hard. It's hard for me to ask for

help because we've been conditioned. I've been conditioned, we've been conditioned as women to not ask for it because we're weak. And it's almost like this martyr status if we don't, if we can do it all on our own, yeah, well news watch. That's why we're all warned out right. But if you if we can ask for help and can't what you just described as so beautiful, you've created an interdependence and your friends can be closer than your family, but you are just as much that helped to your

friends as they are to you. And it can and for like I can't necessarily you know, af forward full time childcare. But what I can do is offer that childcare to another friend. Hey Friday, I'm going to take your kids next Friday, will you take mine. I'm going to take your kid home. I'm going to pick your kid up from track practice or from carpool. I'm going to bring dinner to you. I'm gonna go clean your house. So you create, you create a beautiful interdependence and you

create community. And guess what, there's a cost to that. You will you there is a sacrifice to that you will be. It's not that you're obligated, but it's not always going to be convenient. And that's one thing. Like we live such convenience, live convenient lives. If we want to be part of something bigger than ourselves and we want to be part of community, and we say it takes a village, we have to also be willing to be inconvenience for other people. And we're not, but we

have to. We have to take that first step and say I'm going to do I'm gonna be this for you if you want somebody else to do the same. Yeah, I love the friendship. I mean I feel like, you know, especially even like my daughter is like my friend pay him like, Okay, do you have I'll take Harlow this week or you got so you know, Jolie the next week. And I think the asking for help piece is almost

easier with friends. It's harder for me and like relationships, because I feel like when in past if I was to ask for help, but it would never get done, so I'm like, well, I'm just gonna do it myself. And then now I've been so trained to not ask for help because well, ay, I like it the way that I do it right, I know going to get done. So you know that's a piece now is like trying to like switch off. They're like, Okay, try it differently again and learn like it's ask for help, which is hard. No,

but that's that's that's really good too. And Janna, that's something I think a lot of moms struggle with. We want it's just sometimes easier for us to do it, and even with our kids. So I write a chapter about how we're hot housing their children here in America and the lessons I learned from parents in France, where like they believe that a key and vital aspect of childhood development is allowing your children to be frustrated, say no and meaning it, say no, we're not going to

do that, and it's okay if you're frustrated. That is that is a key component to the development. Like the French and I don't know if you guys have ever been to France, they really don't have kids venues. I mean, the kids just have to adapt. They have to learn how to be frustrated. And that also extends to like why are we the sheafault the mom Why are we the ones doing everything at home? Why are we working ninety eight hours a week between work and home and

picking up everything at home, the laundry, the cooking. We got to ask our kids to start doing some of that too, And yes, we could do it better, we could do it more efficiently. And you know, like my boys like might just put things in the dryer and not put them in the washer. They think somehow that the dryer is going to clean them too. But I'm like, you just have to let them learn to learn to figure it out. My son the other day he's like, Mom, I don't think I have any clean clothes for a

golf practice. He's in seventh grade, And I was like, did you do your laundry and he said no, and I said, I'm sorry, you know, like he's starting to do his laundry. But we also have to allow them to accept those consequences and also helped train them to be a good partner down the road and an adult. Right,

I mean, they're already starting to become an adult. I mean for kids that have graduated and don't know how to do they don't know how to boil pasta, they don't know how to do their laundry, Like we're doing our kids a disservice. Kids these days can earn, but they can't empathize, and they can perform, but they can't perceive. Like we've got to allow our kids to get their

their feet and their hands dirty. Yeah. Well, I just had this conversation with my sister in law who came over and my house was a mess and there was dirty dishes and the thing. And I was like, Oh, don't mind my dirty dishes. I'm just waiting on my son to do them, because he's supposed to have done the dishes last night. She was like, how can you

do that? Just let him sit there and I'm like, oh no, they're gonna sit there until he does the dishes, like, yeah, that's his job and they're gonna sit there and yeah, my house might be a mess right now, but it's still his job to do them. Do you give him like a time, because that would like start like I want to go right now. Yeah, yeah, well I meant leave dishes and the thing. It's a thing exactly, That's what she was saying. But I'm like, but you're doing

your kids at disservice now. Having said that, the reason they sat there is because he did have something else he had to do. He had a prior commitment, so yes, it would be easy, and sure we've done it a couple times. We just do it anyway, but we're really trying not to do that. That means they have to sit through your dishes all so I make I make Julian Jays do their own and then sometimes Julia big mommy Alcacharz. I'm like, that's okay, but like, well ours,

I mean, our pals up. So sure it's like not even so it's like I need it takes you know, whatever, But I mean, yes, it's not easy. But at the same time, it's like, okay, it's not going to teach him anything if we just do it. And that's why, Like when my son asked me, He's like, will you just do my laundry? And I was like, I'd love to, but I'm sorry. You need to look, you need to like understand the consequences of not doing it. Are you

not going to have clean clothes? Yep? To where to practice and allowing him to kind of feel that frustration. It's not that I don't love him. I love my child. I would it's so much easier for me to do it right, and it's easy for me just to intervene. But I'm not teaching him anything, and I've like I my parenting style is totally different now since I wrote

the book. I allow my children to, especially especially my youngest, my nine year old, to feel for austration because I realized that that's a key part of of growing up. It's a key part of of being a human. So I don't want I want my kids again to perceive and not just perform, and I want them to empathize and not just burn. Um. I want my my son's partners to thank me down the road instead of hate me for raising a enabled son who expects food to just magically appear like I want my kids. Yeah, I

want so. My mother in law thinks she nailed it, Paula, My mother in law really thinks she nailed that. I tell you, as you're saying all of this, like a lot of mine. Burnout even came in the marriage piece, like, I know you have this sweet, wonderful husband who seems to be very cool. He's Oh he's not perfect, none of it. None of us are. It's been a it's been a journey. He's younger than me, So I say, you know, trained up a child in the way they

should go. There was a lot of training. Yeah, that's what happened. A lot of training for me. You're still training. What do you what do you think the biggest takeaway or what would you like the biggest takeaway to be with your book? Is it truly the mom's dropping the guilt or what do you think it is? Well, I think moms just want to feel seen and heard and valued and validated, right everybody, Like I just I want you to have this reaction like, oh my gosh, finally

someone is saying it. I had someone reach out to me that's reading it. She's like two pages in, I'm already in tears. She's like, why is it twenty twenty three in this book, because just now being written, that's like, yes, it's it's full of research and history and facts and funny anecdotes, and it documents a better way forward. It's hopeful and it's helpful. It's the tool belt. It's like a better way forward for working and momming. But I want moms to feel seen. I want moms to feel heard.

I want them to feel valued, and I want them to feel validated. That's overwhelmingly what I want. I want hug. You were right here. Everyone to everyone, go grab you don't have to carry it all. Ditch the mom gills and find a better way forward by right now. Paula Faris girlfriend, thank you so much for coming on wine down. Oh, thank you so much. And I just have one more thing to say to all three of you. You are

a good mom. I don't feel like you can tell somebody that when you tell another mom that, she's just like really, because we doubt our son too emotional. I made it the whole time with you without crying. You said a few things where I was like, I'm definitely gonna cry, But that is a good mom. Yeah, because I'm tired. I work for the Kardashians for free. That's how I feel. I'm tired, That's how it feels. I

had to remind my people the other day. I'm like, I don't work for you, like, I'm here because I love the Lord. You know, I'm trying to change a better generation, not because I'm getting paid to be here, you know, Like how get sister out? Well, thank you, by I appreciate all three of you. Thanks, ladies, bye bye bye by bye. Yeah, she's great. I need to I'm amazigning Asa so semi fan girl inside because you

know this. I don't think you know this, but my I was going to go to school because I wanted to be an anger woman. Oh, like I wanted to be Diane Sawyer so badly. Oh you'd be good at that. You're a digger. You're kind of fan girling ever a little bit. Yeah, so cool, I know I would be. It was fun though I sometimes and I know this is like unfair, but like sometimes when people are in that profession, I'm actually I feel so excited for her that she went in a different direction, because she's just

so much more than just that. Like she's so much yeah, like a good soul. Well I think too, like when people pivot, it's interesting something she said, Like I remember being out on the road with Jolie and being like, this isn't this isn't what I want. Now, Luckily I was able to kind of pivot. But a lot of people that's just their one thing, you know, and whichever avenue you go, I mean you you know you're is not the wrong decision, but by any means, but um,

it's just interesting. Like I like how because sometimes I feel like, oh my god, what am I doing? But it's like, okay, it's okay to change a season, find something else, you know, like this is the pivot different things. I needed it. I needed it more than I knew I needed it, and I knew I needed it because I was just at home, you know, like and it's so amazing. But there's even guilt that comes with me

going like I don't think this is enough for me. Okay, you know, like I love raising them, I love cooking, I love all the things, but I also am just like but I also am just more than a toilet scrubber, you know, Like I needed a moment for myself a maid. Honey, oh honey, nobody wants to clean like I clean. I'm really yeah, oh really see, I'm like, I don't need a lot of people that are that OCD about cleaning.

Can't have a clean people? Yeah yeah, oh yeah. And then I hated the one Sarah gave me, so that an't work. If you ever do, I really do mind the fact that they think they're interior designers and they like to move. I can't see my threads clothing like I like, you just pick it up dust and just talk about this. So asking for help and I do it ourselves. I tell you a funny story really quick, and I promise this is a short. But this has

to do with it. I had a cleaning lady come in January because I was like, Okay, I can do this, I can ask for help. I've got to start taking things off my plate. Yeah, I assume because I'm a stay at home mom, I have to do it all and if I don't, then I'm failing. Blah. Okay, So now okay, So so this is I hope funny. Okay. So I have a little urn with my dad, A part of my dad. He's on my he's on my living room shelf and I'm smiling only because this gets

funny and my dad would actually appreciate this story. But so the cleaning lady has come and my dad is missing, and I'm like, okay, listen, you can move a friend and like it's fine, but like you've lost my Like, where's my dad? Has anybody seen my dad? I did find him. He was talked in a tiny corner and I was like, they just I don't think they knew what I didn't. I don't think they knew he's in there. But I was like, this is why I can't do this. I just moved the frame and don't put it back.

But you've moved my dad. You've misplaced my Dad's like my lesson learned. I was like, so that's the last time I had someone January fourth, No, okay, that's turn well on that note to laugh about something, super glue the urns down and dropped the guilt. Yes. I love you, guys, I love you so much.