The Kramer Files with Nick Viall

Bachelor in Volcano, whenever all of them have been. I don't even remember. But I have not watched anything. Can I ask a question? Back in two thousand seven, I did a short stint on a reality TV show called road Rules. You on road Rules, and after that very short career with reality TV, I am all set. You don't watch any reality I really don't. Kardashians once in a while, but that's really it. Kardashians are so good, obsessed,

they're so good. Bible Bible um screaming um. Uh. We're gonna get so much hate for like the liking the Kardashians. I'm just getting out. Have you? Are you up? Today on the did you not did you watch the first episode? Yeah? So, did you not just like feel for Chloe and she's so skinny? Yes, Yeah, I feel so bad for her. I feel like she, like I know where is so strong, but to go through all of that twice. I know Papa don't know anything about that publicly, and the timing

of all it's crazy. Yeah, I feel for her. I know. It was the tape on the floor with the box in the closet when she was loading the boxes in the closet. In the tape where I just really had a moment. I think where I started to cry was or feel just like awful for her was when she said I know, she's like, I'm not ready for people to say yet that I'm stupid. Like, I get it,

you know, she's like to hear those comments. She's like when she started crying about that, I was just like, oh, I can't imagine the magnitude and volume of what she hears. I'm sorry. I just think that she was completely duped. I think that he was so good, like so many of them are. Well, that's the thing that's they're so

good at that. And I think if you go back it's just they're they're so good at just saying well, it's not gonna happen again, or like, ah, do you know that we were trying for a third right before I found out? I think, so, yeah, we were going to have a third, Like we even had a meeting with an IVF doctor. Wow. But it's I think they do that just like with Tristan, I think because it's like they wanted, they want they because they know you

want Chris said, she goes. I think she wanted to keep to keep her, And that happened too with you know Jason. I mean, the same situation. So it's like, yeah, I mean it's when I think back to that, I was like, holy crap, Yeah, I mean we yeah, but um, Nick, though he has a new book out, let's not tell him I've never seen him before. You just did. But

it's great. Well I don't want him to feel that way. Yes, I always find I think that you know, um, that's okay, And we don't all watch the same things and it's not I'm sure. What I think he's kind of known for now is his podcast. He's the host of The Vile Vile Files Um and he's got a new book out called Don't Text your ex Happy Birthday. I can get on board with that. I have a question, have

you guys ever texted your ex happy birthday? Not? Well, I'm in a relationship with someone else, so yes, but not when you're in a relationship. Yeah, okay, I can't. I remember wanting to, but I can't remember if I actually did. I probably didn't. It worse though, when you do, When you don't get that like a happy birthday, that feeling, you're just setting yourself up. You know, when you do it, you're setting yourself up for a world of heartbreak. But

so I'm gonna go with you have yesterday. No, uh no, I'm I think after my stint of the thing that happened this summer with UM kind of going above with birthday stuff. Oh, I don't know. I just I'm kind of like, you know what? Yeah, no, Um. Can you believe I haven't heard from him in two and a

half on this answer, yes, like at all. Not The last thing I heard from this guy it was a black heart was the conversation was I will let's we'll set up dates to see each other, And the next he's like, I'll know in the next few weeks a time to get back together. And then I had sent like a picture like a week later, and then I

got like the black Heart but nothing. This was after like the conversation, right, this was um you know, like during that conversation was like I'll yeah, He's like, I'll want to like get together and he's like, um, I'll let you know in the next few weeks, like like a time to like I'm like and not I'm not back on the app. Yeah, yeah, he's getting together with someone. We never left the app. I don't think you forgot

all the reasons. So it's funny because one of the things in next book is like kind of talking about the player and there, Um, what was it? Where is it that? Oh, well, it's one of the things I

want to talk to about training our pickers. He goes, Yes, dating is hard, and they're so many things about it that are beyond our control, which is why it makes it so important to control what we can Our choices, our decisions are communication and the dates we go on and the people we agree to go on them with. That means refining our pickers. It's interesting, your picker is the part of your brain, call it a muscle or

a tool if you want that. You used to evaluate who we are going to date, who we are going to invest more time in. Have you been stretching that picker? Well, yeah, you know, we've we talked about it. We did not have a good oh um. But no, it's pretty cool because his book like has all these different questions about dating, love and sex, and um, like yeah, there's I'm I'm excited to to chat with him about that. And did Nick Nick was a bachelor. He was on he was

on two seasons of the Bachelorette. He was on Andy Dorphan season and he was runner up, and then he was on Kate lim Bristo season and he was runner up. So he was runner up to both girls. And then he became the Bachelor, the Bachelor, the Bachelor later on. It was like a couple of seasons maybe later. I don't know that any titled the book runner Up. Oh yeah, that's a key title, but I think runner up. It's gonna be like I just renamed your books. Nice to

meet you, let's talk about your brandname. But we've done we've we've done um, you know, questions last two weeks. So it's only you know. I'm there to ask him some questions, but yeah, his whole book is like um. One of the questions they asked him is why do men tell women things just because women want to hear it? People pleasers? I don't know that's a good question, he says, because it's something he says, because they want short term gratification.

That's way better answer than yeah, I'm excited to talk to Nick. Do we want short term gratification? No, but they think we do and that's the problem. Okay, well then we're gonna is it m ratification or is it there? I feel like we're going to have to die. I'm curious. Another one is thoughts on reaching out to a guy who's been ghosting me for the last two weeks. You're not allowed to answer this one. I just I would just not reach out to the guy that's goes to

do for the last two weeks. I really like his answer, you're ready to hear it? Yeah, so interesting to hear a guy's perspective. If he wanted to be found, he wouldn't disappear. Yeah, it's just not so complicated. It's real. And if they like a girl ghosting, I would say there probably is more. There can be more to it,

but not, guys. I think the hard thing too with that is like because of the born Jewish guy or whatever, that like stings to know because I'm like, oh, I wasn't and then you don't because all my stuff, I'm like, oh, I wasn't chosen, I wasn't good enough. I wasn't and I know it's not me, and it's like it was It's all. He's an impossible human being. Well, yeah, that's going to be one too. That's he's gonna be a

tough one for life. He never to herself, Oh I forgot about I thought you said, great, other one you got ghosted? Which one your life Jewish guy? You know? He technically was like, I'll, you know, reach out to you and to let you know in the next few weeks. Like I thought that was someone else. There's funny Jewish m I didn't like the other I can't. I wish I could just share what I called him. Well that's

my problem. I know him as a different name. Yeah, do you guys want to know what his nickname was? I won't say his name name, but his nickname on the Queendom chat the whole entire relationship was by blank by his name like b y e um, why has feeling not cute enough or good enough become something so common social media? I didn't have anything nice to say because we have too much access and ability to constantly compare ourselves to others? Yep, um. Do you believe that

time heals all wounds? Oh? M hm ja did married women on the right side, Like, I say, really, I think that it helps. I think the time always helps the further you get away from something. But I think that it's always still a little bit of a wound for change. Well, so this is what I would say in this answer. Sure, but it doesn't mean it still won't need scarce. Yeah, sure, no, I said so in short, I think it does. I really do. I think that doesn't. I think it's a yes, and oh you would and

I know, my auntie, but I do. I think it's a yes. And like yes, I do believe time because it's like we've all moved past things that are really hard, but they left a scar. Like, yes, time does heal wounds, and it left a scar. Yeah, so it's not healed. No, a wound is open. Mm hmm. I think it might be in an open section of my life. Talk to us KB no, no, no, all as well. Nothing to see here. No, I just feel like it's always still there.

So it feels like a idea, but it's not as heavy like That's like I was like in bed covers over my head. Time. The further you get away from it heals, but I don't think it completely heals. It doesn't. It's not open. You're not bleeding when a wound. You are not. You're not in the emergency room. Yeah, okay, I'm just a law firm of Cat and Christend. Okay,

that's fine, we've healed or just a scar. But it's do you see what I'm saying that I really need to drive home in a relationship, Yes, you were right. I'm gonna send you a black cart any minute, and I goes to you for four and a half months. Um Actually, I just thought of something else, going to maybe bring up that happened the other day. Let's do so. I was like we should sometimes I like to be the pot star. When you see that face, I know, I know, I know we're onto something good. Um M,

I'm gonna help. I'm gonna hold on that. I don't want you to hold Can we hold it? I don't know. I have to just get my words. I don't like it when we pinned things holding we pinned the last one for a long time. Oh, this is interesting. I'm sick of feeling like a backup plan for their boredom and loneliness. Then stop answering the phone advice, don't answer, don't answer. You control who you spend your time with, not them, right Mick for president? Everyone at my heart

wants you. So y'all know, I've been like casually talking to someone I'm not saying who yet not committed committed. Um, And something happened the other day where, um, you wonder what's a flag and what's something that is? And for as much as I can raise my botox eyebrows I am doing, you can't see me something that like because

you just wonder because I'm I am. The reason that I haven't jumped all in is because I'm terrified of you know, the bamboos moment, the like I don't want to fail, you know, and just again like I want to just like really, I'm like I'm just being very cautious and just like observing like crazy, like a lot of times, like he'll say, you know to me, like what are you thinking? And I'm just like I'm just observing, like I'm just kind of sitting back and like watching.

So something kind of like happened the other day. But I wonder if it's a flag or if it's a just something to be cautious of, or if it's just like, oh, that's just like kind of the start of like getting comfortable and like a tell. But it could be because it's like I feel like I've like, don't I want to share things because it's like some things you can be like, oh that is a flag and like I should have shared those things early on another things, So

share all. So we were going to go somewhere that he invited me to and I said, what time do I need to be ready by? The answer I got was four thirty five the latest. So in my brain I think five, because five the latest. If it was leaving it for thirty, it would be four thirty, and it's five is the latest. You don't tell Kreamer like my family has a late time too, but they don't ever get to know it. Well, here's the thing I don't write. You don't usually say it's a secret. Yeah,

and like you you all know me. I'm on time, so you don't need you're not women are given a five latest, then five is always gonna be the latest. I was the late. I'm going to take my time getting ready. Yeah, I'm gonna do my thing. I'm gonna check in my Instagram while I'm getting ready, I'm gonna FaceTime. I'm going to do a few stories. You're gonna FaceTime me what you're jogging with your beautiful sports bra. And so I'm just gonna like take my time because I

heard four thirty five the latest. I didn't make that up. Okay, like that is what it's typed as well, probably, And I'm like, or women, we know what we hear. I didn't just make up five? Right? Was this over the phone or in person? In person? Okay? I was like her or advance so um, so I could sense a little agitation when four five rolls around? When did he get here? There? What are we fool? Let's just say

four Okay? Well, first of all, well we were together the whole day, so I need the kids that day. So he was like at my house. Okay, I don't know if he's like coming to pick you up, and he showed up at four thirty and you weren't ready. I'll say this, like I had gone for a run with a friend. I met up to watch the football game leisurely about the day. Yeah, it was in my day off, right, So I'm like, I'm gonna go for a run with a girlfriend. And then he was watching

football with a friend. So I met at the bar to go watch them, you know, the Michigan game, and um, watch the game, and then we kind of went back to you know, to get ready. But I was like, well's let's go to my house and gratty or whatever. Okay, so getting ready and again I'm face timing my mom um, and he's not said anything at this point. Okay, He's probably like can you please just get ready by four thirty?

So five doesn't have to be the latest, then say four thirty I don't need okay anyway, anyway, technicalities of these, So when for fifty comes around and this is something and it was I guess it was a slight trigger from me because just like I don't like to be late, nor did my ex husband, we are like me and Katherine were always early, were on time. Whatever. When we're not,

we get stressed. I get it. Well, I could kind of sense the pacing of this person, and I'm in my mind, I'm like, I got ten mount ten minutes, you know what I mean, Like I'm early, I've got ten minutes early. And he's like, you're about ready, and I go like he's kind of said it, and like you're bout ready. And I could sense like a little bit of like a a tone, like a little bit of a annoyance, and I go, I mean, yeah, I'll be ready in like five minutes. But it's it's four

fifty and I've got you said five. He was no, I said four thirty. Oh no no no no no, oh no, no no no. And so you know me, cat, I'm gonna defense up too. Yeah, I know what I heard. I heard four thirty five the latest? Yeah, did you say four thirty five? No? And so I was like, you know you said, I was like, yeah, but you said four thirty five the latest, So like if you wanted, and so I got a little if you want to leave a four thirty, just you should have said four thirty.

And in his defense, I was a little I got a little defensive. I got a little like because I was because my ex would also be like like, let's go, and I'm like, I hate feeling I hate feeling rushed, which is why I always ask hours in advance so that I don't feel rushed, because I don't like feeling rushed. It just sends like waves in my body. That's not good for me either. I get angry. I don't. I

just don't. I like to take my time, okay, and I don't even need an hour or two to get ready, but if I have it, I'm gonna take my time. Well sure there's face times and football games and runs to have. Yeah, So I'm like, I'm just so anyways, I get a little defense and he's like it's it's all good. Let's just like let's just go, and I go,

but I'm not going to drop it. And also I've got four more minutes, and I'm like, but I just don't understand, like I know what I heard and like you said five the latest, so like you know, I just don't understand, like why, like you don't need to give me like a prep time or whatever. Um, And he's like, well, no, I did say, and it's like you knew this event was important, and I was like,

I understand it's important. I understand why word what we had going on today, but I also told you you at like and he goes, I just like, you've been so hot and cold, and I go, what what do you mean? How have I been hot and cold? He's like I don't know. He's like, you just seem like distant today, and I was like, huh, like I've just been and like doing my and then then I get when I feel suffocated or like, because I'm like I still love like my like freedom of like you know,

I'm like, what do you mean? I was like, I went for a run and then I met you at like the thing, and I'm like is that not enough? So then I start to get like and the poor guys like trying to be like I'm sorry I have said that. Like I just was like, and I go, if you thought I was being hot and cold, don't passively throw something. Be like, hey, are you okay? I just want to check in with you. Just grab me and like hug me and be like I just adore you. Yeah.

But that was like the only thing that has happened in the last like I'd say, like two and a half or some months that I've been like, is it hot and cold because you're not like doating or hanging on him? Um? Yeah, I mean again, I'm just I'm very like, alright, I'm like, no, but I like this. But I'm just wondering if he feels like it's hot and cold because it's not like super all over him or something. I have so many thoughts. First of all, I do not and gets a flag personally, I don't.

I think you'll are getting to know each other right now, and now you know that this is something I think that he probably I'm gonna put words in his mouth. He probably in his mind was like, Hey, if you can get ready by four thirty, that would be awesome. But if you're running behind, it's fine if we leave by five, But when you're taking your time and your face time and you're not, he sees that, and you're not doing your best to get ready by the time, in his mind, would be the best time to leave.

That would have been if that were me and his That's what I would have met, and you would have probably been annoyed, and I would why isn't she after Hey, Kramer, we got five minutes hey Kramer, like, I would you know, say something, but you are still getting to know each other. So he's over here going do I say something? Do I not like you? After this episode he'll never say latest can say that's what That's what I'm saying. Yeah, you probably shouldn't say it in that way, like just

give the time, especially for you. You're going to be on time. So I just think you are getting to know each other now. Then when two people get defensive, we know that. Then it's just like you can't even they talk to each other. You're both being defensive. He's regretting saying anything any guy does once they say something and it becomes a fight. Well, he's so like noncombative. He's like, and I'm like, and when I've told him, I was just like, don't just say because then he's like,

it's fine. It's not fine, So tell me how you feel, like, let's talk about it. So I'm a little I'm not as I'm not as on board with cat. Okay, I'm a little flaggy about it. Okay, yellow flag maybe only because I feel because he is a self proclaimed fast faller, I feel like the hot and cold coma that part feels a little flaggy to me. It feels like if he's not really being super loved on, doated on that you're then it becomes that you're you're hot and cold. Actually,

it's just real life. What's happening is just real life. And like I will say, like in that situation too, and even with him, I'm very comfortable around him, so I don't feel like I have to put on right like some like overly affectionate kind of but I'm at I could be accused and have been accused of being a little hot and cold as well. I think we

all can. That's just life. I just didn't like the passive throw that's like because I'm like, that's that's the piece where like I kind of like it's flagged in my brain where I'm just like, but I also like he was frustrated, like you said, like he's been watching me, and I'm sure there was something and I don't mean this in the bad way, but I'm sure there was something passive in the way you said something. So I just think that like that is like kind of the

natural way some people like that we talk sometimes. I don't think it's as bad as but I was defensive though when he said like, and I'm like, what do you mean? But then it really doesn't feel like it was about that anyways. It was about the hot and coldness, which which is maybe which was his real issue. I don't know, you've just been hot and cold? Well that's just is like what I got thrown out. Say you're frustrated about me getting ready versus like hot and cold

all day? Yeah, and just about that too, like say it all. But it's how they because he said you're hot and cold and they were mad that he said I'm hating hot and cold. That does scare me too. But he's a fast follower. He's kind of damned if he does. Damned if he doesn't. I don't even know him, but he's kind of damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. If that he's feeling that way because you're already defensive, so him talking about it then kind of no matter how he says it, you're going to be

on the defensive anyway. I don't know. Let's ask let's ask Nick. He's in the waiting room. Let's bring him on. Nick Grand Nick. I'm a big fan, um Nick and I go away back and um I just I love you, I think for doing this. And I was reading your book and we were going through some of the questions too with my girls. But we did just have a dating thing that kind of just happened, and I'm curious. Can can we just get your take on a situation that just kind of happened in my dating life? Love?

Love this? Yeah, let's do it. Okay, So do you guys want to Can I I apologize? I can? I I don't know everyone in the sorry, this is She's watched all of the episodes. Um, this is This is Kristen my friend, and this is Catherine. Hi. Nice to me. They're part of the Queendom and wind down. So yeah, and yes, so do you guys want to recap or yes? Long story short, we're gonna long story short. She's hanging out with a guy. She's trying to figure out if this is a red flag or is just getting to

know each other. Okay, he says be ready by four thirty five at the latest, so she takes it as be ready by five, well about four or forty five. He's kind of huffing and puffin, moving around and it getting frustrated. Whatever. This is the first second third date where weird, like, um, it's not a first. It's definitely not a first. I would say, like, let's just say it's a seventh. Hang. But we've been talking for like a month and a half with text too, because he

was like not living here. Okay. Yeah, So he gets a little frustrated. Are you about ready? She gets defensive because I'm like, you told me five latest, Okay, all the defenses are up, and he she wants to prove obviously that he said five lates and he said no, I said four thirty And I go, no, no, you said four thirty five latest, Like, I'm not going to forget the time in which you told me to be ready by I just I don't. I don't forget a

much men say anyways. So like it's a it's a it's a it's a vault, and so, um, you're a punctual person. I'm very punctual person and so and I don't like to feel rushed. But I also this is something an event that he invited me to and I think it's go ahead. Yeah. So then he's like this is important to me, like blah blah blah. I'm wondering if he's just not feeling like you're making it a priority.

But anyway, so then he makes kind of a passive aggressive comment that I just think you've been hot and cold all day, but she's already you know, defensive, and then you know there's all that. So it's like me, so do you think that's a flag saying that I've been like being frustrated and then throwing why just like you've been like hot even so hot and cold today. I'd like to also say this guy is an admitted fast faller in relationships. He loves a good like instick.

He acknowledged yes, yes, yes, and he is trying hard not to do that. And I've acknowledged that I'm a fast fall archer. So we are literally like like baby baby, baby, baby baby steps seeing that like because I'm like, I'm not gonna relationship until And to be clear, how many

dates have you been on in person? Well? The hard so like we we we texted for like two weeks every day, all day whatever on the phone FaceTime, and then we had like five dates and then we then FaceTime texted for two weeks straight again because he was gone, and then that was our next kind of hang sash like that, like weekend dish. Yeah, it sounds like you both are falling trapped to what you've already acknowledged that

you're both guilty of. Um, So there's that. I would say you're probably both justified for considering if the other person is showing these red flags right, Like, it sounds like this is just it's these are it's it's a lack of good communication and heightened expectation and unfair expectations of both of you, and you're both kind of playing games in a sense, right, Like he could have said, you know, also like you know the four thirty five o'clock, Yeah,

what is that's very confusing? Is it four thirty or five? Now?

Everyone like and and being late is a is a huge pet peeve of mine, right, not being late, but like not just saying not get not giving me the heads up before running late, Like the people who are just like I'm on my way and they're like not even in the shower, right, But like that if there's a spectrum of like people's personal preferences here of what annoys people, what doesn't annoy people, And he just assumed that saying four thirty five meant like a that you're

someone who is on time all the time, and like, well, yeah, are you giving me options? Do you want me to be ready at four thirty or five? That's a thirty minute difference. Well, I don't know everything about women. I do know that like getting ready takes sometimes for some people a lot, and thirty minutes could be critical between Like listen, if if I tell you four thirty and you show up at five, you're thirty minutes late. But but if if if you told me five, I'm like,

it's also worth noting. At some point Janna's facetiming her mom during this period that she's also I mean, but I heard five. That's besides the point she's in the house watching her Why is the house? Well, Nick, he's a fast follower. No, no, no, no, no, no. We were still. We were a bit of information that I did not give. You know, we were we went on a little getaway together. All right, So you're already playing house. No it wasn't. It was a no, it's not playing house,

playing house. I don't mean like you're moving in together. He wasn't at my house. I wasn't at his house.

We went, Yeah, I think at the end of the day, you guys have like you said, FaceTime every day for two weeks, you had multiple dates, then he was out of town, and then you face time again, and like I've been like, those are fun and they're great because you can connect and like when you're forced to like face time and talk, you're forced to actually have conversations, which in person people are often are bad at doing

because you know, it's awkward. Let's make out things like that, and so that can maximize an intensity and a relationship, and that can maximize chemistry in a relationship. But it still doesn't mean that you guys know each other. You don't know, like your little idedeo syncrencies of like what

annoys you guys, or what what triggers you guys? You know, And all of a sudden he's watching you get ready face time with your mom, and he's thinking like and last girlfriend did this and things like that, and then all of a sudden he projects his frustrations of past relationships onto you. You do the same thing where you're just like, how about you just like give me a straight answer and and and so I think you guys, it sounds like it's good for you for acknowledging that

you're both fast followers. But I don't think you know, I don't think you guys are hold. I don't think you're making it easy on each other to not fall fast. It's like what you're doing is saying you're just like, hey, I have this really bad habit, and you're like, I have this bad habit too. All right, Well, let's put ourselves in situation immediately to see if we can, like, you know, not do the thing that we're so, you know, it's just like, hey, I'm not a good swimmer. Me neither.

All right, Let's go to the middle of ocean and jump in. Let see what happens, you know. And so it's one thing to recognize your difference, is I think you we have to, like, especially if you're communicating in any stage of relationship. This is early on, so you guys don't know each other about each other, but like, don't test your partner. Support your partner, you know, like make it easy for them to make you happy, like

I'd always talk about, like you With Natalie. The one thing she does in this my relationship with her that I've never experienced is that she makes it so easy for me to be successful. She's just like, this is what will make me happy, and it's a very clear directive. And I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna go do that thing or not do the thing, you know, or whatever it is. And you know, testing people or putting themselves in situations to prove that they can get over the weaknesses isn't

showing love. It's just you know, it's I know, we do that because we want to be surprised, and if we do that, then that means they then we're worth it. But like sometimes you know, when we're getting to know easchach other, we're just like trying to like figure out whether like we enjoy their company, and so like I think we should just make it easy for people to enjoy our company. And then he made like you should say.

I would say to him, like, listen, I want to be on time for you and I and I want to I want to make things a priority that are a prayer to you. It would really be helpful to me. And I say this a lot in my relationship now, I'll say, it would be really helpful if you could do this for me. I have this bad habit and it would really help me to work in this bad habit. If you could do X Y or z oh, shoot, I can, I can, I can wait to speak. I

can be forgetful, you know, things like that. You know, so, um, what's another thing I know Natalie will ask me about, um, well, like I won't pay attention to right, So, like I think it's a very common right, men do this all the time. Uh we're zoning out. I can be aloof. I'm thinking about what am I talking on my Knox podcast?

Or what show? What TikTok should I make? Or blah blah blah or whatever whatever bullshit, And and then she'll be telling me a story, and and then I won't be paying attention and she'll get frustrated, like oh what do you say? And like there's nothing more annoying than repeating yourself. I repeating myself. So I asked her. I was like, hey, I know I can be aloof, but can if you see me like zoning out, can you just like kind of just say, hey, I really want

your attention right now? Can you plead? You know? And that can be annoying sometimes, but it's it's still better than me just fled out annoying her. So like it was me asking for her help to help me with a weakness that I know I have, And so like, I think those little things that we have to do to say it's like it's one thing to be like I am not good at that. Well, yeah, I don't know how old your person you're hanging out with this, But am I guessing he's an adult man who hasn't

figured out how to do this thing yet. So like he's not going to do it on his own, and he's not going to do it without help, and he's not going to do without someone who has the patience to like work with them also like say how how can I how can I help you work on this bad habit? And this is how you can help me work on this bad habit. I think people don't do that enough. We just want people to just change for us, because that means we're special. We've done that a lot.

So I've been I've been married for yeah, like for fifteen years and we separated for a couple of months and we are back together. We did not get divorced, but we do that all the time. Now, what do you mean, Like I'll be like, hey, I need you to do X Y, and Z because I know that this is a bad habit of mine and this will

help me. And then, like the other day, I got frustrated because I was still dealing with the kids and cleaning, and he got in bed and I was like, Hey, what frustrates me is when you know I'm still doing stuff and so if you could help me, okay, thanks for letting me know. So the next day he stayed up helping me do stuff, like and I mean, it took fifteen years for us to like start doing that and like making it a habit, but gosh, it helps

a lot. Yeah, it helps a ton, and it's yeah, I think I think it's by far the norm not to do what we just described. It's and it's I think it's weird and like it's it feels it's such an uncommon feeling to say can you help me to your partner who you've been living with or dating for some period of time, because we just want them to like know us, you know, and we want us to

figure it out. But I think sometimes this is okay to say I am bad at this and it would be really helpful if you could do this for me, and I will do my part. Too, Like sometimes we can't make the mistake of saying I need your help, and that ask for help is like you doing someone else doing the work for you. You know, you have to be willing to do that, because I have to.

I have to be willing to, you know, if I'm if I'm in my thoughts, to pay attention of my surroundings and not be so aloof and be present, you know, and things like that. So like she doesn't have to ask me every time to say, hey, hey, i'm talking you know, um, because and it's my job to be mindful of that, because like no one wants to keep asking that. So it's a balance. But um, in your situation, Jenna, it's like you guys know, you don't know. You have

no baseline, you have no foundation. You have a couple of weeks and a handful of dates and hours of face time saying all the things that you you know, and being very open and vulnerable and and and now you're both expecting each other to just be a certain

type of person because you've communicated things. But yet you're expecting this person who their entire life they've struggled with this thing or and you too, I'm sure you have a lot of your saying bad habits right, like don't just go away, you know, like I just I am who I am, you know what I'm saying. All I can do is just try to like fix them a little bit and ask for my partner to help me

along the way. I think one of the things that I learned too is and I feel bad, you know, um with like my ex husband and where it's like I wanted him to read my mind and I've learned like that men just can't read women's minds and they he doesn't know what I need and I coming, you know, I didn't know what he needed. And so like having expressing like your needs is huge, and I think that's when I in that, you know, dating nowadays, I'm just like this is what I need, and like what do

you need? How can I help you? Or because it's like because you can't read my mind and I can't read your So like if you need me to be ready at four thirty, I'm going to be ready at four thirty, but I can't read I cannot read your mind that you want me ready at that time, well you know what I mean. So it's like it's like it's just I think it's just being very clear and like, yeah, asking for the needs and that's why I like and I love that you Nick are doing that too. Um

that's the check in. I mean that was the most helpful thing in my marriage is we would do a check and at the end of the night being like this is what I need and like, hey, I need you to be a little softer because I'm having a hard time. I need you to listen or but sometimes it's hard, and I know this is where I failed. I'm like, why do I have to tell you to listen?

You know? And in my past that's like that's where I would I mean, that's unhealthy of me to have that mindset where it's like I'm like, my feelings that hurt because he didn't listen. Well, you know whatever. But yeah, I mean I think it's a balance, you know, because yeah, like I said, like, sometimes you want your partner to be present and you don't have to want to always

say can you listen, Yeah, listen to me. And we were in our thoughts a lot, right, you know, and I think we're I think we have to forget, uh, we have to remind ourselves that ah, as much as it's in our brains and what we're worried about, so is everyone else around us too. Like a quote that's really stuck with me that I saw on a TV show was we're never the villains in our own story. Um,

And I really you know that. I think that's a great thing for us to remind ourselves and dating relationships, Like, whatever you're feeling, whatever, no matter how right you think you are, just take a moment and just consider how would I feel if I put myself in your shoes, even if I feel like I'm right, Like if I just thought for a moment before I respond, before I really get worked up, before I get mad, how might

you be seeing the situation? And that's helped me a lot to just like bring myself back down to like not reacting to like feeling triggered, or feeling insecure, or feeling frustrated with my partner. That's a good one. I

like that a lot. Um One of the questions in your book, because what I was telling the girls and the listeners is, um, this this book is great because there's a lot of questions, and you do a lot of questions and answer on your Instagram and we were going through some of them, and the girls actually wanted to debate this one with you because he's like great, great. So the question was why do men tell women things

just because women want to hear it? And you said, because they want short term gratification, and the girls want to debate that with you and go, well, I'm just curious, is that for the guys short term gratification or the

girls short term gratification or both? I mean that particular part of the book is obviously the Q and as I've done over the years that are like at the end of every chapter, and so, um, you know, that question was probably probably my guesses came from like a data you know, dealing with you know, boys and situation ships, because I honestly think you know, as a as a as a heterosexual male who's often like you know, has an audience of women, Like I really think most of

the things I talked about are just they're not like gender based like people to your point, people do that, right, And so she was asking from the perspective as a woman dating men, and yeah, I think we often will say things that we don't really mean, but in the moment it gets us what we want. And the scary part about that is we're just very convincing of ourselves. So when we tell people we BELLI, they believe us.

You know. It's you know, it's like when our exes come back, you know, and we're just like, you know, and unless there's exceptions every rule. I think that's awesome that you and your partner took some time apart and now you have a great marriage, you know. But lots of times in relationships where people break up and their exes come back, you're like, well, why are you back?

Just like, well, I had to make a mistake and I realized how special you were, and and a lot of times, you know, and and they sound so convincing, and then you get back together and three months go by and you haven't done any work, you haven't asked the questions. You were just so excited that they're back because you spent three months is to big being sad about it. And the truth is like they just like they broke up with you thinking well, you know what,

there's something missing here. I could do better, not like not better than you, but they just they thought something might be more fulfilling. So they started dating. They went out there they got on the dating apps. All of the sudden, they're like this dating seems sucks, you know, and and all of a sudden, and no one wants to convince themselves. No one wants to think that they settled.

They would you know, we're not good at admitting we're wrong, but you know, when we're really good admitting we're wrong when we when the alternative is to think that we settled or or you know. So it's like when you know, what, I did make a mistake, because I would rather tell my ego I made a mistake and be like, you know what, honestly, like it's like I thought I could do better, but like this is better than nothing, you know, Like we don't want a thing that you know, and

so we can just be so convincing of ourselves. And so yeah, I think that's why, especially early in dating situations where we we hear something from someone that sounds really good and the really validates us, especially when a stranger validates us, I think it's really important to ask why. You know, we're always we're so quick to be like, you know, when people don't want to date us anymore or hurt us, we were like why, But why why, why? Why does this want to end? And that's when we

should accept it. But like when when strangers validated us, we're just like, yeah, I know I am, Yeah, I love me too. Yeah yeah, like honestly, like thank you. I I thought I looked good too, you know. And so I think it's just really important to you know, not to be a buzz killer in a moment, but just say, oh, it's thank you for saying that. That means a lot. But like why do you feel that

way about? You know, like what you know? And and get people to explain their feelings they claim to have, because it's easy to stay to feeling it's much harder to articulate what And I think early in dating we can protect ourselves by asking the people who who state these kind of big proclamations of love or like to just explain how they feel. And I think you can get a lot more clarity about someone's true intentions when

you start doing that. I also like how you go through um like training the pickers, where it's like five hallmarks of a player. They have a history of cheating, lots of people warning about them, they gas like you, they love bomb you, and then you're going to go into detail, but I'm like, yep, check, check, check, tringeck

of all was like so many check I gotta go. Um, But I'm curious, like when you because if you're a picker, obviously you've had um relationships, public relationships, and what was different with Natalie that you realized from the other women you dated. I mean, there's a lot of different things, but I think more than anything, um, she she truly has a true sense of self and self worth and who she is. And you know, when we met, we met, you know, I uh, she was living across the country.

It was a long distance relationship. I had a lot of you know, questions about our compatibility. I was like, you know, you're you're beautiful, and you're fun and and nice and smart, but like, I don't know, And again I would I've been single for a long time, so I think I had a lot of cold feet. But the more I got to know her, the more she was just always very clear with how she was feeling.

Um And a lot of times people will say, well what are we and and you know, I felt like I felt resistant to a relationship and I knew that, you know, we were both kind of catching feelings, and she was open to it. And instead of doing the typical well what are we you know, what should we do? What are you thinking? She was just more Okay, I want to tell you how I am feeling. I want

to tell you why. I just I just want you to listen and and and to me, I found that to be an incredibly attractive quality that was really carried into our relationship because she's such a good communicator about how she is feeling. You know, we can it's so easy for us to be passive aggressive, and because like those conversations can be awkward to have even with the people we say we love the most, and so she has always just been able to make it very clear.

She's always communicated with me her self worth in a way that was easy for me to receive that didn't sound cocky or and it wasn't passive aggressive. It was just this is what I expect from you, this is what I want, this is how I feel about you.

And I'm not afraid to say that because I'm confident in my feelings and I feel like that has carried over to us having really good trust and communication with you know, any struggles or concerns we have, and uh, that's something that I haven't really had in the past. I felt like a sense of competing with people, not necessarily like we're both trying to win, but like there's

we would trigger insecurities with each other. Instead of communicating about that, we would project that by you know, maybe kind of passively aggressively hurting their feelings of these little digs and things like that. And I think I've been guilty of that. People I've dated have been guilty of that with me, And you know, I think with Nally, a big reason why I have the opposite is her

confidence and her belief in her self worth. Following you anytime you guys ever go somewhere, I'm always thinking it's going to be an engagement photo. Like it's like because I just feel like you guys went together for a minute now, and I'm like and I just keep I'm like, I'm waiting for the for that because it's like, because you guys have like these beautiful photos and the backdrops

and stud I'm like, oh this is in there. Oh no, no, yeah, But I was like, but I just uh, over two years now, things are going great, you know, Um, you're not the only person who who's who has said that to me. I think we're really just enjoying her. So yeah, I mean again when she does a great job of making me, make it easy for me to be successful. Um, and you know, like I want to know enough of what she wants to be happy, but I also wanted to be kind of a surprise moment, a special moment.

I'm grateful that we've both been super busy with our careers and our lives. And obviously I have the book coming out and and so like I want to, I want to make sure it has its own moment, you know, so to speak to that it's not sandwiched in with you know, other things we have going on. And I will say though that you know, we are excited about our future, and who knows when it can happen, maybe tomorrow or you know, who knows, But like I do think, you know, we we're really happy with how it is.

And and okay, you're I can tell by his answer that's all I need to know. Be a smart guy, Nick, I plan on spending the rest of my life with her, and hopefully that that that comes to fruition. But we'll see. I'm calling it, and it's it's one month. In one month, that's happening. I can just call it right, I'm sorry, Um, well, and he doesn't want it sandwiched. So so it's gonna before the holiday is spring? No, not not happening. It's going to be he's got a book in holiday before Christmas.

It's happening. I can call it. Let's think about right now, how much Well, I guess we'll find out. Okay. I have a question, a dating question. If a guy goes see you, let's say, let's just hypothetically say you were hanging out for three or so months. It was you know, he was still on dating apps, so was I, um, but had some lovely time spent together, and the person just straight up like ghosts, you does the person come Do you think that person comes back around? Or now

are they gone? Why do you want? That's what doesn't say. The bigger question is why you just I'm not saying it's me. I'm just saying hypothetically, like ghosts come back. Of course they always come back from the dead. Yeah, they don't. And what do you what do you tell to the person when the ghoster comes back? Because you know that you probably shouldn't be with the Ghoster god.

Well kind of like I talked about earlier about why people come back in general, you know, like any anyone who goes for any reason, and I listen, everyone has their reasons for certain things. But like, I'm sorry, Like you're a bad communicator. You know, under under stressful situations, you you choose the easy way out, which is not

to communicate at all. And I don't like you don't need me or any other person talks about relationships, like everyone knows that the number one most important thing for a successful relationship is good communication. So you are, you are investing in people who are proving more than like you know nothing about these people sometimes and then they ghost to you and you're like so willing to take them back. And the only reason really take them back is because them ghost to you makes you feel less.

Then it makes you feel like a loser. You judge yourself like how could you ghost me? Like it's like how could you cheat on me? Like we we make their actions a reflection of our self worth, which is terrible, but like you know that's our egos. And if whoever this person is, I suspect and I say this with love because I also have a massive ego. I would suspect this person might have just a fairly inflated sense

of self uh. And and that ego has allowed this person to do all these amazing things and probably take some risks and and have careers that people dream to have. But we have to be able to like check ourselves and remember that like when people wrong us, that's because they chose to wrong us with there their choices and and and we can't let our egos make it our

problem and our self worth. And then we spend all this time trying to convince someone who's showing us how unworthy they are of us all these opportunities to come back, because all we want is their validation. So would you say the biggest red flag then in a in in dating or a man is why are you lefting it? Well, I'm busy making my nick for president shirts. But the biggest red flag in dating? Would you say someone that

isn't good at communicating? Uh? I mean sure, yeah, if you can, if you're dating someone and you know, for whatever reason, they're a bad communicator, or if yeah, I don't know, see if the latest you can work on that? Kidding or reactive like I would you know, how do also how do people react to stress? Which is interesting going back to how this whole conversation started. I think this this can be an opportunity for you in this person, Janna, because what you are is you guys are testing one's

ability to deal with some sort of conflict. It's too early to deal with this type of conflict. But maybe maybe you go to him and say, listen, um, I know that was really important to you, so like I'm sorry that I wasn't ready and that because like I know that was important to you, and I don't want you to feel like you're important. Things are important to me.

It would help me in the future that if if something is really a priority, just give me one time, and I promise you I will be ready by that time. If you give me two times, I'm telling you what I'm going to receive it. I'm going to receive it by saying like, yeah, I'm on time, I'm not early. So like, if you want me to be early, then give me a different time, give me give me that

communicate that. See how he responds to that, because like the only real response to that would be like he should he should also say, you know what, You're right, I made that confusing. I am sorry. So that's what he did, and I loved that. That's handsome because I'm the ride there. He's like, I was kind of quiet,

and he goes, can we talk? I need a minute because I felt like my defense and I know when I'm defensive, I shouldn't communicate, and so then once I was like okay, and then he did say, like, you know, I'm sorry. I could see how that was confusing, and you know, he's like, I just was, you know, really like blah blah blah. So he like he definitely owned his part and then which made me then feel comfortable

to go and you know, I'm sorry. I was very defensive back because I got triggered with like, you know, feeling rushed or whatever from blah blah blah. So I think you're right. Like it's almost like that was a good little tester to see how we deal with potential conflict and in future conversations, because I mean, other than communication, I think there's no better indicator than people's ability to be successful is like how do they deal with conflict?

Because it just if you and I've been there, if if you're in a relationship with someone, no matter how much fun they are, how much chemistry you have, when it gets bad, it's bad and you guys can't get on the same page and it takes like a freaking week to get over anything Like this is not sustainable, you know, Like it just wears you down, you know, and it just it won't matter how fun it is

when it's good. So um, you know, that's why. Like, that's why I think people should be less resistant to communicating their frustrations and less resistant to conflict early on or just hearing something you don't want to hear it, because all you are is figuring out fairly early, like how you can work through issues with someone, because if

you can't do that, like it doesn't matter. Like the honeymoon foods phases great, But the longer the honeymoon phases phase last without any conflict, you still have a lot to learn, you know. Until you have that first fight, whatever that fight is, and and and figure out is this someone I can work through issues for? Then you

still don't really know them, you know. So just be careful how much you're willing to promise yourself and what feelings you're willing to express to someone before you truly know someone. And I'm not saying pick a fight early on, but just you and listen. We want to romanticize things all the time. And it's just like I feel like I've known you and like, you know, as if you're someone I used to make this mistake, right. I thought I was gonna be married with kids at and then

I wasn't. And then I was in a relationship at twenty seven that failed, So then I'm two years behind that plan. Then you know, I was in another relationship that failed before I was thirty, and then I was five years behind that plan, and I started like comparing all my success or failures of this artificial deadline. So instead of like wanting to get to know someone and trying to figure out if we're really compatible, I would

just be like, nah, we're in love, right. I didn't want to like wait, I didn't want to wait at the time to be like, you know, no, I love you, I have feelings of love for you. I love everything I know so far, but like you know, and I know what we'll see you know, I you know, I truly believe that every relationship you have to wake up every day and choose to be in a relationship, you know, because I didn't, I think, and I don't believe in fit.

I believe in that. But like that takes work, and the things are going to change, and you're gonna get stressed. They're gonna get stressed. You're gonna have bad days, you might have bad weeks. You know, we're and it's really easy to go back on Ryan and see what's prettier and shinier, But you're gonna have the same issues with the same shinier person, you know. You know, there's that whole section of my book called Everyone's annoying. Yeah they are.

And if you're someone Jenna for someone who in you too, if you met your you fall fast. Don't forget to remind yourself just how you know, gross men can be, you know, like or or just how obnoxious people can be, you know, and so like eventually you're going to find out that they like leave every cabinet door open, or that they sometimes put like you know, cereal in the fridge because I'm not paying attention, and that can be really annoying sometimes. And so when you have the rose

color glasses on, just don't be afraid to know that. Like, I gotta figure out what annoys me about you, and I gotta figure out if I can love that. Until I love that about you, then I'm still figuring it out for sure. Everybody, go by don't text your ex Happy Birthday. Other sex advice love dating um by Nick, But seriously, thank you so much for coming on and uh walking us through some dating things. And um, I'm so happy for you, Natalie, and I can't wait to

send a little engagement present before Christmas. It's I can't wait to celebrate you guys in the spring. NT wonderful. Well, I I can't wait for either exciting. Thank you ladies for giving me the opportunity to talk with you. And it's always really happy for you. I can I can see the you know, just the joy and the love and in both of you all. And I think I'm happy that everything that you know you're got going on. So keep doing it and I'll see you soon. I

really appreciate it. Okay, alright, some good advice right there, lady. I like that there's a person like Nick in the world as a male advocate for communication. I like that he has a following. I like that he's using the following for good. That feels good. But there's one of him in the session. I like it. Yeah, how old is Nick? He seems young? Um? I like that. I wanted to just plays like thirties six. Okay, maybe Nick by our age? Um, he's forty two? Do what? What

did you just show his Instagram? Thanks taller in person? I didn't know he's forty two. I like that, and I know that there was some he doesn't look for you too, But I just like that he's using his influence to like really just say the things that need to be said. I know that. Oh there, it goes through the whole thing. Like Natalie Joy age. So there's the couple has an eighteen year age difference. Um, Natalie is uh three? Can I see her? But she's I

mean it sounds like she's way you know, she's cute, stunning. Yeah, um, but I mean I know that probably comes up, but it's like, you know, I think if I don't really think that much matters. To be honest, he just just a number. I've hated older and they were, but communicates really well. Yeah. I like I feel like probably that generation like her three. It's it's like the middies that are like where I would say like actually because they they're all they're all in the therapy and the talk

and that like communicating and telling their feelings. I feel like the ones maybe between like and something maybe I don't know, ye on this episode all the way down. Okay, well, ladies, that was that was a fun episode. And I really like Nick. What a sweet man. On another day, and I guess we'll just continue on putting the flags on the on the white board and and um bringing it to the table. And I just want to go to the record. I want to go on the record because

I really do like this guy. And I know he'll listen, and if he does listen, I just want him to know that I do really like him. I was the one that defended him. I'm just saying, well, I'm not defending him, but I do like that's just that situation. Okay, okay, all right, guys,