The Divorce Coach

got was about this girl named Michelle Dempsey. Um, she's and someone basically said, like, you need to check out her book. It's it's called Moms Moving On. And I just started to stalk her naturally on Instagram, and I just I really truly love her story and everything that you know that she is. And so I just honestly just want to get her on right now and just kind of dive into it because there's no better person to talk to than someone that has been in that situation.

So let's get Michelle on and let's have a conversation. I'm here, hey girl, Hi, Okay. So, because so I was just kind of filling in the listeners and just for a second, about I've had so many people reach out to me about like, oh, follow this person, like this person is great at this or you know, um,

you know, read this person's book. And one of the direct messages I got was about you and so I know, so they're like, you should look into this girl named Michelle and she's all about you know, mom's moving on.

She went through a divorce, and so I started to stock you on Instagram and was like, I need to have her on my podcast because you know, obviously everything just went um finalized the divorce a few weeks ago, and I just there's no better time now to kind of pick myself up and have this conversation with someone that's been through it and can hopefully help guide not only me, but everyone else that's going through a breakup or situation from you know, from that needs to keep

moving on. So, Michelle, can you just give me a little snippet of your story so I can catch up. Yes, Well, first I just want to say thank you for stalking me, because all of my followers were sending me articles and they were like, you have to talk to her. You'll make her feel so much better. Get her on your podcast. And I'm like I don't. I'm not going to swoop in and be like, congrats your divorce, let's chat. So I'm glad you reached out to me, But yeah, I

um somehow ended up a divorce coach. I'm a certified divorce specialist. I was writing for a whole bunch of Mommy publications as a blogger when I got divorced and my daughter was too, and I had had already been growing my social media, so people were watching and reading and I'm like, you know what, I have to be authentic and nobody was like out there talking about divorce

yet on Instagram. So I started to and and Scary Mommy and some of the other publications that I write for were really welcoming and open about me changing my content to what it's like to co parent a little kid and how much it sucks to be a single mom at thirty three years old. And um, with that, my my following grew. And as my following grew, I realized people really needed answers to questions that a year

and a half ago I didn't feel comfortable answering. So I started my podcast so I could bring in other experts and I literally just take all the questions in my d m s and find experts that can answer them and I and I bring them on and we have great discussions that have been really helpful for people. And then people started to reach out about hiring me.

So I got certified as a coach and a divorce specialist so that I can work with women primarily who are looking for the strength to leave and kind of need that final push and a little bit of a strategy, and women who are adjusting to co parenting, because there's no harder thing in the world, as I'm sure you already know. Um. And then I got a book deal with Simon and Schuster. Not like it. It didn't just land in my lap. I'm gonna start that over. I

wanted to write a book. I worked my ass off for about six months until I got a book deal from Simon and Schuster. So the book comes out later this year, and it's really like what to expect when you're expecting, but for divorcing moms who are just like, how did I end up here? And why? I mean, for that's I'm so thankful that you are doing this because there are so many people and it's shocking to me to like in my Instagram, the d m s, it's the amount of people that were like, how did

you get the courage to leave? And it breaks my heart because I'm like, that's of my messages is like how did you get the courage? I don't know how

to leave? And I'm like and it makes me just want to cry because I'm like, I was that girl, you know, and now it's like there's all these women that are just so unhappy and they want hope, so they're trying, but then they're just like when they come to the end of their road and it's just like I'm tired, you know, of of fighting for it, and they're depressed and they don't know how and then you know a lot of them are like, well, financially, I don't know how to get out, and then they just

feel stuck. So what do you say to those people that are going through that kind of challenge? I always if I had a dollar for everyone who asked me that question like it, I'd be, you know, floating in the South of France somewhere. But the truth is, there's no one size fits all model like to answer that, I think, and everyone hates to hear this because they're like, no,

I need more than that answer. But I had somebody on last year Tanya Zucker brought from F Factor, and she talked about what it was like to be in a really like loveless, almost emotionally abusive marriage, and it came down to spending endless years crying and thinking and analyzing and strategizing, how am I going to be okay? How my daughter is going to be okay? What are

we going to do for money? Until you come to that moment where it's like one last fight or one last text from some woman or one last whatever, and you're like that's it. You have this awakening and you're like, I'm going to go now because if I don't go now, my soul will die and I'll probably die along with it.

And it's just it's one of those moments that you can't describe and I hate to say it, but when you know, you know, and as I'm sure you came to a point where you were like, I've done everything I can do. I've tried the counseling, I've cried, I've begged, I've pleaded, and I just can't do it anymore. But I always say, you can be as done as you want to be. But I never suggest leaving without counseling

for two reasons. Women tend to carry a lot of guilt after divorce, and I feel like going to counseling is where you're going to say, all right, now I've officially tried everything. We've come to counseling, and also where your counselor will say, yeah, it seems you, guys are at the end of the road, and you'll get that

validation that you need. So my advice is always you don't want to lay your head down on your pillow at night without knowing you've tried everything you can try, just because of that mommy guilt that creeps in um. But when you feel it, you have to honor it and and not overthink it and just kind of go. And I think that's that for me was even hard because for me, I always was like, Okay, if I have that smoking gun, then i'll leave again. Then then

I'll go. And it's like, you know, I think it was hard for my friends too, because it's like, Okay, you got your smoking gun, why aren't you leaving? And I'm like, guys, this is not easy, Like this is not like what I like, even though I know I need to like, it still was like the hardest thing I ever had to do, you know. And I was like, I think that's even when you have your aha moment,

like you have no choice, it's still like this. I think that's like where the punch hits me, is like the the reality of like And I think that's where why it was so hard for me, you know, a week ago when it all got finalized, It's like I knew it was coming. I knew it was going to be on this day, and I knew it was gonna be a really hard day, and I knew I had to show up to work and film and you know, feel it and then you know, hold it, push, push

it all back in. But it was that moment where it's like the finality of like the reality that was like, well, what what we what? I didn't want ever, I wouldn't have spend thousands of dollars in therapy and and tried and and you know, has spent sleepless nights and all the tears and all the like, you know, all the trying and all the to to end up here, but you ended up here. And that's something I always say, like nobody wants to be I remember walking out of

divorce court four and a half years ago. I'm just like, I'm like, what in the health for me? It brought up a lot of child to trauma because I'm a child of divorce and I swore, I swore I would never get divorced and never get married because I never wanted to get divorced. Then here I am walking out a divorce court by myself. It was like nine oh five on a Tuesday morning, and I'm like, huh, Like, what do you know? Life just came full circle and

it was a punch in the gut. As much as I knew I had no choice but to be in this situation. And I think, you know, accepting what what it means to emotionally entire yourself from somebody that hurts you will help empower you through the decision. Like you know, the fact that you could come to work on the day that you got divorced and and just put a happy face on and through the day. I want to say a large part of that is the drive you have because you're a mom and you're gonna make me

cry stop. Okay. It's a very, very very like, I struggle so much with co parenting, Janna. I am in between therapy appointments for my daughter right now. We're having a very hard time. But it all comes back to what I wanted her to grow up seeing in terms of a relationship and how how a woman should be treated and never have her think that emotional abuse or cheating or any of that stuff is okay. And I think that's what it comes down to for every woman

who finally has to leave. Yeah. Yeah, and I and I and what this story that you know, we always wanted to tell was like, well, look how we overcame it. And so now it's like now I have to read kind of train my brain of Okay, now this is the new story that I have to know tell her.

But yeah, I mean, it's it's interesting that something you said to about the guilt, because there's still I mean, I woke up today I had just a immense amount of anxiety, like, well, if I would have maybe been a little less naggy, or maybe if I would have been a little less controlling or like and then I start to put that on me, like what and there are things, of course that we can all be better and do better, And there's a million things that I wish I could go back and and do different things,

but I still know the end resull like we don't deserve certain things that happened, um, no matter what. But still it's just how do you how do you let go of those things so you don't just drag yourself because I'm like, I want to be happy, you know, and I just feel like I'm I'm being like held down from the what IF's and the like oh no, like and then and also like I think there's the moments to have, you know, the anger still comes into

of the reality. Like just like you said, yes, I've been married before, but I didn't want to, like and I always would leave to be like, well, I'm not having kids because I'm like, I'm again a product of divorce. I will not like this is not right. I need to because I will not have my kids being a doors house ever ever. And then I'm like here we are,

what how did this happen? Right? You know? And some people say really stupid things sometimes like oh my god, you should have just left before you had kids, and I'm like, okay, well my daughter is my best friend, but thanks, um, yeah, I mean, look, nobody, nobody wants to be there, but that anxiety and that what if

I actually posted about it this morning? How my anxiety just went into full on overdrive and I started having like obsessive compulsive issues, like ruminating thoughts that were horrible about like what might happen to my daughter when is not with me? I was like over the top and I had to really tackle my anxiety at that point. But I think it comes down to realizing that like if you were less naggy, he wouldn't have had less of an issue. If you were less something, if your

boobs were bigger, if you were more perfect. Like that's a degree of infidelity is that it very often has nothing to do with us at all. You know, when when a woman and cheats, it's because she feels neglected. When a man cheats, it's because he's got issues and it's nothing more than that. And it's like searching for this sense of loss that they felt at some point in their lives and it you know, look at Jlo and a Rod it's like, you're really, dude, you're gonna

cheat on JL. Like it never has anything to do with the person, So you could have been everything or nothing, and it's still would have happened. And I think that's what women have to realize, is that marriages don't fall apart because of one or two things that they might not have done right. It's a lot of stuff that people carry when they're coming into marriages that tend to get exacerbated. And men are never really the ones to

like seek the help for themselves. It's the women who do all this work, and so you know, to put that kind of pressure on yourself is just unfair to you, but also really natural. And the anger is natural, and the doubt and the insecurity and the anxiety, that's all It's all going to come in waves. And I always say it takes about a year after your divorce is finalized for you to like really level out emotionally and start to see things almost with more gratitude for being

in the situation that you're in now. And I hear you say that, and I'm like, Okay, I'm so excited for that day, But at the same time, like, how could I be grateful that my kids aren't with me every day and then I have to say goodbye to them? Like that's the part that I'm like those are my babies. Like I hate it. I hate it, but you know what, aside from having to co parent with somebody who makes co parenting difficult, I have. I have manifested exactly the

life I feel that I always deserved. I went through a lot of trauma as a child. I kind of grew up telling myself the story that I wasn't worthy of a happy life or a happy marriage, that I would never have that you know, I'm not like other girls because I'm so damaged and broken, and I used my divorce as an opportunity to be like, well, fuck, I deserve that too, So what do I need to

do to get that? And I started working on myself in ways that has really like, I feel like I couldn't have the life I have now had I not done all that work. So I chose to heal. And I always said like, I'm not done with love yet. I didn't have the love I deserved and I'm going to get that. And for me, that was really important. And I feel, you know, a year from now, a week from now, your life can change. You don't know

what can happen in a year. And everybody writes me at the one year mark because I always say, you don't know what can happen in a year, and they're like, look what happened in a year, and that it's it's going to happen for everyone. And you're also going to find your comfort in co parenting, Like it took me

about a year and then it was great. And then you know, now my daughter has some issues going to her dad's which is hard, but but it comes and goes in waves, and you learn to adapt your life to the time that you're with them and when you're not with them, Like you're going to enjoy parenting so much more because you're going to be that much more present when you have them, because you know what it

feels like when you don't have them. And I truly think that's the best gift of motherhood and co parenting. And I will say to there's something like now it I don't have to carry the like when's the next you're gonna drop? Or is he really telling the truth? Or like is he cheating on me? It's like I'm so much happier around my kids now, Like I feel like I'm lighter with them, and it's it's that's been a gift to Oh my god, but that's but that's

it right there. Like your children are children, nobody's children, anybody listening. They don't deserve to carry the weight of our emotions. And we often don't realize when we're in these really toxic marriages how much that tension rubs off on them, because it does, no matter how much we mean for it not to, it does. So that alone is a gift to your children. And when you're crying because your kids are not with you, you're going to remember that they deserve daddy by himself and mommy by

herself instead of mommy and daddy unhappy together. How do you not be so angry with your X because of the choices that UM have now affected that reality and that dream that you wanted. I think you can be okay, you can be angry with your ex. There's um there's a psychologist in New York who came on my podcast and talked about righteous anger and like, you are righteously angry, Like you have a right to be angry. In the second you tell yourself, oh, I shouldn't be angry. Anger

is a bad emotion. You're suppressing everything and it's only going to come out in other ways later on be angry. Like one of the best things I ever did was just starting to Instead of like having three drinks every night, I every morning would wake up and drag my ass to the gym and try different class every day just to keep myself. Instead of running on the treadmill, I've kicked box. As cliche as it was, it felt really good to hit something. I channeled my anger into, like physicality,

and I think that that helps, you know. L Wood said, yes, happy people just un kill their husband's right exercise and doorphins, But it really works for me and I and I always tell women they have to find that thing where they they can use the anger and process it and like get it out, because if it stays inside, it turns into all sorts of ugliness. So I can't tell you how not to be angry, because you have to

be angry. You have a right to. But there's like a time and a place, just like there's a time and a place for crying. You're not going to cry all day. You're not going to cry on set, You're not going to cry in the car with your kids. You're gonna wait till nighttime when it's like you're alone in bed, hyperventilating. Um. But it's just it's the same

with anger. You almost have to say, Okay, I'm going to the gym, I'm gonna let it all out right here, or I'm going to the beach to sit by myself and I'm just gonna fucking rage for a few minutes. I think you need to have that entitlement to your anger and stop telling yourself it's so bad. Then how do you co parent with that anger? So I think what your ex husband needs to I don't know you know his side, but I'm hoping he's taking responsibility that like,

you're in this situation because of him. And what you do when you have all those angry emotions in co parenting, is you really just limit contact to what needs to be said. You know, you do have to take a step back and realize that your children are lucky to have a dad in their lives. It would be much harder if he did what he did and then just bounced right. You have to separate your anger from the

fact that he is entitled to be their dad. And you know, every time you want to pick up the phone and be like your mothercker if he's with the kids. Know that that's going to take not only time and attention away from the kids that he should be giving them, but it's also going to pull you into a hole when you should be using all of your energy at that time to keep things light for yourself because you

don't have the kids. And I always say one of the best things, like when I get really, really really angry, is all right, like a raging email and not send it, Like I I have notes in my phone, I have emails in my drafts, because at least you're taking the thoughts and feelings and putting them somewhere they're not festering

inside of you. But also know that sending it will get you nowhere, right, Yeah, I say, I'm going to have some in my notes as well, and also like, you know, my ex as a point to like when he's like, I don't have to listen to this anymore, you know, But at the part of the same in for me as I'm like, I go to that place where I'm like I don't feel like I have that closure of the apology I've wanted, you know, and so or deserved or whatever, and so it's like I'm like,

how do you not see this or you know, so it's not where but that. I'm like, I know me too. I mean, listen, I left my ex husband. First of all, it takes two to tango. I did a lot of not nice things too, but he pushed me to them and I I left him. So it's very easy for him to say you destroyed the marriage, you did this, And for two years I would say, no, I did this because and you don't see things my way, and I wanted that closure until I realized there is no

such thing as closure. It's more of an inside job, like you have to make peace with it inside yourself. Because no matter I posted this the other day, no matter how well written the texts, no matter how logical or rational, they're not going to see things our way, like they're just not. We can't. Men are like children,

even the good ones. And the more you tell them no it's yes, it's more to you tell them yes it's no, and there's nothing we can say that they're going to be like, oh okay, even if they did, they can't hop in their time machine and change, you know, whatever they did wrong. So I think it's really just a matter of understanding that as much as you want to have him like eat ship for what he did.

It serves no purpose anymore. Well here's that. Let me just play devil's advocate, which I don't want to do, but I do this when I ruminate in like fester in my sadness. Um is, if you just said that statement, then couldn't you just say the same thing, Well, I cheated on you because you did this and because you wouldn't you know, you made me feel this way? That's gas lighting? But isn't that kind of what you just said though? Too? Like because because I said the same,

I've said the same thing. Well, I'm I'm angry and I'm shaming you because you treated on me. So but isn't that like we were both isn't that kind of the same thing? Yeah? Absolutely, But he's not gonna It's not like you're going to say I'm doing this because you're you cheated on me, and he's going to be like, okay, go ahead, you know please, By all means, he's not going to do that. Men are defensive and their whole lives are um driven by their egos, whereas our lives

are really driven by anxiety and fear. So it's it's like your anxiety fighting his ego and it just goes in circles. But is it? But I mean, like, is it okay for them to say that because we're saying the same thing though, because it's like, well, I'm doing this because you did this, and then he said, well, I cheat on you because you were a naggy, controlling wife. Your perspectives are arguing with each other and and your perspective is very different from his. And so you're never

going to say, Okay, you cheated on me. You're right, I nagged you too much on that Tuesday three months ago. You're not going to say that, and he's gonna he's not going to say that you're right. So both of you are adding fuel to the fire when you should kind of just be like, you know, backing off and just following the parenting plan and live and let live. Like he made his bed and he needs to lie on it. He's forever going to be the guy that couldn't keep it in his pants and ruined a happy

marriage and you're not. You're going to be the one who moves on. So how do you walk away not having that real closure and apology? I think it's you have to have it with yourself. You have to be strong enough, you have to find the strength inside of yourself to say there is nothing in the world that can change the situation, right, And so I'm choosing to make the best out of the hand I've been dealt.

Is it the hand I wanted to play? Absolutely not, But I have it, And now I have an opportunity to change the course of my relationships and change how I'm loved, and change the way my children view their mom being treated. And you really just have to, you know, want to. Once you accept it, I think that's all the closure you need. Yeah, you mentioned uh, j Lo. And it's it's interesting because so many people are like, well, how is she healthy because she just moved right onto

then first of all, wrong like wrong, j Lo. Wrong, But also we most of us are very confused as to whether this is even real, right, Like I mean, I kind of wanted to be real the seaway, Like I keep sending it to my friend Brian Davis, who's she's been on the show. She's a she's a sex and love addict, and I'm I'm like, but look it, and she's like, Janna, it's not real, this is in first Like that's so I'm like, but like I believe in love and I want love, and like, you know,

they they they've found each other again. Like I'm like a big advocate for then hey, you know what if it is real good for them, But like she hasn't done the healing, so you know, like if you don't heal your ship, it's just going to come out in the next relationship. So unless she just wasn't that into a rod because he's such a cheesy idiot, Like I

don't know, Like, but here's the here's the thing. I saw this on Instagram because this is one of my my big things that I've been fighting with myself is can you heal while still while you know, being with someone else. And I do think you can. Yeah, absolutely, I think that if you're with someone who has also committed to their own growth, that's the best relationship you can be in. I think we're you know, people would say, don't get into a relationship too quickly after a divorce.

I met my now husband two months later. Yeah, he was a couple of years out of his marriage. I was two months out of mine. But for a year before that, in my marriage where we were sleeping in two separate rooms and miserable. I knew that, like, I had work to do and I was going to do it no matter what. And when I met my now husband, I'm like, look like this is fresh for me and it's going to be ugly and there's gonna be like should I need to go through? And he was like,

I'm trust me. I'm working on my own stuff because he came out of a really long marriage and had his own stuff to work on, and so we're both very committed to our growth. And that's when I think it is safe to have a relationship after so soon after a separation. But you also have to be really aware of the fact that when you if you choose somebody as a rebound, like j Lo and Ben, a lot of times rebounds are just a way for you to go back into familiar patterns, even if the relationship

was awful. Maybe there's something in Ben that is for me. I think she likes to fix her upper you know. A Rod was always a cheat. I've known him since I threw his thirtieth birthday when I was a publicist for the forty forty Club in New York City. Like

twenty years ago. I remember, like he's there with his wife and he's like looking at all these pointment was um Anyway, I think she likes to fix her upper and Ben has his own issues, so I think she's somebody who deflects from her own stuff maybe and focuses on the other person, which many people do. That it's a motherly nurturing type of thing. But hey, he looks

like a rebound daddy if I've ever seen one. Like good for her if it's working out, I know, But I think that's also you know, because people will comment on on my stuff too, and I'm like, man, I've been unhappy for five years, and I'm like, I want to. I want to be happy, and I want to I have so I know I have so much work to do. I know that, and I'm doing the work and I'm

going to therapy and talking to my therapist. But I'm also like, I want to you know, if i'm if I'm if I find that happiness in the healing, Like I don't want to be judged like oh you moved on too fast, or Jenna, you're in the public eye, You're going to be judged no matter what you I hate being the comments like kill me, and I'm like and so I'm like, okay, they're right, Like I need to know. I'm like, why am I? Why am I like basing my life and my love life off of

what people think that I'm doing or not doing. It's like, you know, Amanda, she lost her husband, and I'm like, Jesus, like, let the woman be happy. People right, right, so you can answers. There's no timeline for grief, like, and you're gonna always I'm gonna always gonna grieve my divorce. There will always be a piece that I'm gonna grieve that loss, whether I'm happily married again. I believe if people aren't paying your bills or taking care of your children, they

have no right. You know, nobody really has a right to dictate what you do now or how you do it, Like you have to do it in a way that feels right for you. And it sucks to be in the public eye. And you know, these angry people that sit behind a keyboard on Instagram and like make judgments on other people's lives. I get it too. And I'm you know, eight hundred thousand followers less than you. So I can't even imagine, but it's it's something that you

really just you know. My publisher told me the other day, like, don't read, don't read the reviews, don't read the comments, like you know, cancel. Culture is real. People suck, but opinions are like assholes and everybody's got one. So I'm gonna someone will say something about you no matter what you do. Like that's that's just how it is. I know I want a approval, right and someone told me I'll never get that, and that makes me angry. No, they told me in one of my marketing meetings from

my book. They were like, just do you know of all reviews are going to be negative. It's just science. And I'm like what They're like, Yeah, these people won't even read the book, they'll just negatively review you. I'm like, oh cool, Like I'm gonna have to have like more zolof to add it to the mix. Oh man, zolof. I just switched to lexapro. That was my really, yeah, it was all off. I gained like twenty pounds and

I was felt nothing. So then I moved to lexe Pro. Now, I like, I still have anxiety attacks, but not to the extent. Yeah, but it works for you know, different

for everybody. But I'm curious on how, because you are so public and you are so open, does your ex get upset with you for having this um like being open about things that you talk about, because I think that's a big you know, one of the reasons I wanted to quit the show is because it's like, I don't want that heat from the you know him or an you know or his friends are being like, oh god, she's playing the victim, and it's like, I'm just trying to like find strength and to share my story and

I'm not looking for I'm not trying to be victimized. I'm not I'm not trying to victimize myself. I'm just trying to you know, heal and talk about it. I think there's so much healing and there's so much power in in authenticity and sharing your story. But I have become very mindful, um you know, whereas four years ago I post, I'd be that girl that like post the quote that you're like, oh no, what happened to her?

Like you know, waiting for someone to ask, But he would obviously get very triggered by that, and over time, as I realized that people are coming to me for help and comfort. I never wanted to paint him in a negative light despite our issues, out of respect for my child and because that doesn't do anything to help anybody. You know, I have a Facebook group where the rule is very simple, like, we don't come here at event

and bash, like we're here for uplifting stuff. We have to get through this, we don't have to pull each other down into it. So I make a conscious effort to really, if I'm talking about the end of my marriage or what contributed to it, to talk about my flaws and what I did wrong and what I messed up. And you know, my ax also was very unhealed and the two of us together were toxic, but that was on me. I put myself in that relationship and state

in that situation. So I talked a lot about it from my personal perspective, and my book is not going to dive into the nitty gritty of him. It really is everything through the lens of where I needed to change and why the marriage was bad because of me. Um So, you know, yeah, no, does he like that I've become successful over the fact that we got divorced. Absolutely not, but he also can't say that I don't

take the blame. Will blame is due in certain areas? Sure, Yeah, no, I mean I think that's a good a good thing because it's in this situation. It's like we could run over them, probably with the truck, but like we have our children that we're protecting, and I don't want them reading those things. And it's also like, what's the point. What's the point. It's not going to do anything I don't like, like bad energy or bad karma, not confrontational

at all. So I'd rather move. Also, I'd really like for my ex to meet somebody nice, So like I don't want people to think that he's bad because he's not. We were just bad together. So I you know, I think it's always touchy when you're gonna put yourself out there. And again, like people are going to be unhappy no matter what you say, like ex husbands or ex spouses. I get d M all the time asking but what did he actually do wrong that you were like, Okay,

that's it. I'll never share that. I just won't. Yeah, that's a I get that one a lot too. And it's like I I have my two kids I'm looking up for and at the end of the day, it's like, does it even matter anymore? It doesn't you have them, And what matters is that you be the report in the storm right now when you start? Are you co parenting already? Yeah? And it's I think that's gonna be. So I'm in Connecticut right now, film in a movie.

I'll be back next week and um, you know, we we had this summer arrangement and now school schedule will start and that's going to be I think that's when it's really going to hit me, just like the you know, the every Wednesday, every other weekend and um yeah, it's just it's once I'm home and getting in that regular schedule, I think it's really gonna I'm gonna have to do some major healing around that and grind. Yeah, listen, it's

you have to. I wrote a whole um chapter in my book about my first weekend without Bella and how insane I drove myself. That's also I posted about it this morning that that's what led me to calling my doctor and being like I'm not okay, Like I can't even pretend to be okay right now. And that's when I went on anxiety medication. But you know there are

going to be first for everything. Now, first birthday without them, or first somebody loses a tooth and you're not there and you want to like just stab yourself in the heart. But like it's the reality of parenting in pieces, and as much as it sucks, it is much better than forcing yourself to stay in a situation that would break you emotionally. So talk about the book. It's available for preorder. Um, I'm really excited about it. It's it's got like thirty chapters.

It's like every how to every first thing you're going to encounter, how to pull yourself out of bed in the morning, A lot of it has Um. I talk about journaling a lot because that was very helpful for me, just like I said, to write the anger text and not send it, getting your feelings out on paper, like it's like free therapy. Um. So it's called Mom's Moving On, Real Life Advice for Conquering Divorce, co Parenting through Conflict, and Becoming your Best Self, which you can pre order,

which I will be preordering right now. The I'm happy to send you one, but thank thanks so much. And you know, I think it's like, really, I'm very open, as you know I have, I wear my heart on my sleeve, So I think it's like a really empowering, like you've got this type of thing, while also honoring that if you don't, it's okay too, because divorce is shitty and so is co parenting. And in no way, shape or form does my book promote like second marriage

as you're happily ever after. I actually told my publisher I wouldn't write about getting remarried because I don't think that that's what sets the tone for happy life after divorce. I think it's really all about accepting yourself and you know, coming to terms with who you are as an individual and as a mother in this stage of your life, and finding in our happiness, not finding it anywhere else. I one thousand percent agree with to like, I just want to be happy for me and not because I'm

with somebody else or you know, I'm dating. It's like, I just want to be like I want that, I want to be enough. You know from me, you are preaching to the anxiously attachment style choir, Like I was an anxious attachment person because I had daddy issues. I didn't have a dad in my life who wanted me, and so it was like, oh my god, you looked at me. I love you, and I couldn't be that person anymore, which was I was listen when I got separated. I mean, the first thing was like all right, yeah,

booty call like for sure. And then I remember thinking, like, I can't have a guy wake up in my house. You know, all these guys were like coming out of the woodwork, and I'm like, I can't be that person now, Like I really can't be that person now. I have to be okay alone. As much as I wanted to say yes to that hot bartender or whatever, I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. And I forced myself yeah. And then and then, you know, two months later, how did you let your like how did you let that

love back? It back in Jenna? I knew I was going to marry him from so he lived in so it's a ridiculous story. He lived in my mom's building here in Miami, and and I had moved to a little town house with my daughter, and I'd pick her up from school at two o'clock every day, and it was like kind of lonely just going back to our townhouse, the two of us. So I would go to my mom's apartment and she lives on the water, and I would walk Bella and her stroller around the marina and

like the for or four thirty. Every day, this like hot guy would come with his daughter and and go fishing off the pier. And I was like, you know, I never saw a ring, but I was not going to pick him up. But I just like looked at him and remember thinking like, that's the guy. His physicality was what I always envisioned myself with. He was tall and dark and sexy hair and um, and I didn't nothing, you know, came of it. And then we were both

in our the same edition of our city's newspaper. He was on the cover for something he had done in court. He's a judge, and um, I was way back in like the last page for something else. And he wrote to me on LinkedIn and I but we were talking on the phone before we went out, and I told my best friend the morning of our first date, I was like, I know, everything's going to be different after tonight.

And when you meet someone that you connect with in the way that you were never even able to connect with in your marriage, no matter how much you loved your ex husband, like I loved my ex husband, but we really just didn't connect on a lot of levels. It was almost like I found like home, like I like and it's been like a sigh of relief every day since. Like it really is a comfortable, almost like we've known each other in our past life kind of thing.

I love that, and I'm just I'm happy that you found your healing, but also you know, found that person that and he gives me my space to heal, like good, he gives me my like I'm in there. I spend more money on therapy than anything else between me and my daughter. And also he's where I used to take out my stress, Like I used to ignore my stress and anxiety by being like pay attention to me. Now I'm like, I'm I'm very clear, Like I'll text him before he gets home from work and I'll be like,

I need to not talk to anybody tonight. It's not you, it's me. I'm triggered by whatever. Like give me my space. And he's really good about that too well, And that's that's amazing too, because it's like that shows you and that's kind of I'm like, I'm gonna pat myself on the back too. I usually do not like being alone, but like when I'm home, friends you know, are like, hey, like I'm gonna come over, and like, I honestly like I want to be alone, and I just want time

and my thoughts. And it's like, holy crap, Like that was big for me to realize too, that you know I'm slowly heal. Yeah, yeah, for me, it took so much time, Are you kidding? I had never been single in my life, and it took I was so alone in my marriage that I in the last year of my marriage, I felt like I just was single and I was so lonely that I got comfortable in that loneliness and that being alone. So I feel like I've worked so hard to be okay alone that when I

need it, I need it and nothing can compromise that. Well, Michelle, I just like I appreciate you coming on and just being so open and and thank you for being a resource to me and so many other women and men that you know need need your help. So thank you for having me. I'm glad I worked out. Where can my listeners find you if they haven't already. I'm on

Instagram at the Michelle dem cy um. My website is Mom's Moving On dot com podcast is Mom's Moving On, which I would love to have you on when you're yes, Um, everyone, I told you my d MS were like have Janna, and I'm like, sure, let me just go scoop her up. Um, and I have a membership community that's free for women. I'm a divorce coach, but if if the coaching price point is out of somebody's reach, I don't want anybody

to go without the support that they need. So I do have a membership community that women can join for free and they have access tom are my private Facebook group and Q and as with me and um. The book Mom's Moving On is available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble and a bunch of other places. Now, amazing, Well, I'm so excited for you and I will be sliding into your d M thanking you and also asking if you can coach me. So you got it? Okay, perfect,

Thanks Michelle, I appreciate you of course. Bye bye. Okay, Well, that was an amazing conversation with Michelle. Uh, and I guess the underlying or I don't know I don't even want to say underlying overlying theme. I don't know, but um that it's all going to be okay, and in one year, in one day, tomorrow, the next week, Like just keep on keep on moving and um healing and do the work, um even though it's really freaking hard,

but um, and that's with everything in life. Just to continue to do the work, continue to grow, and continue to be the person that you want to be. And UM, I'm here doing the work with you. So see you next week.