Something Borrowed with Emily Giffin

why are you? Are you in a closet? I'm in my closet that's empty that my husband or whatever because I wasn't there where all this stuff was moved out and it was too echoly. So Eastern told me to go to a closet. You know what, that's a really solid metaphor right there, right you. You in an empty closet. I love it. It's like cleaned out and ready to go. And how can I ask you a question? Though? Before we Emily, we're going to get to all your stuff to talk of help. When we went into it last night,

girlfriend didn't way. Um, so you and an empty closet right now? I remember when I got divorced. I think that was my number one thing, was like I don't want to walk into the closet and see the empty, like see his stuff gone like that was like that to me was going to be like the you're like more space for my sweaters. But I just I don't know, like I was just I remember telling Pam and Chris and I'm like, you guys should They're like white crying, and I'm like, I don't want to walk in and

see his stuff gone. And so they went and took they packed all of his clothes and then they then they moved my stuff and rearranged it. And so I'm curious, like you sitting in there, like how is that for you? I mean, it's a little weird. I don't think I'm as emotional about it, but yeah, that part has been interesting because you know, me, I was kind of like, all right, I'm ready to get out of my space.

I'm like ready, like I'm you know, and then I'll like kind of look around and it just kind of weird. It's definitely different and odd, but you know, I'm also kind of excited to take over the shoe part of it. And so it's fine, it's you know, it's all good. Yeah, it's fine. It's good. Everything's fine, everything's um yeah, no,

it's and it's okay to still be upset at times. Sure, Yeah, no, I mean it is definitely it's like a weird feeling like it's still kind of feels a little bit like a dream kind of, you know, it just doesn't really feel real yet. Well, it's you've had him living in your space for how many years exactly, and then all of a sudden, this person like moves out, and I mean it's I remember to me, it's like it's like

an oh death, but they're still alive. Yeah, it's like that weird like they're everything is gone, and it's like you're missing this. There are a ghost basically in the house. Yeah. I still think I was telling a friend this yesterday, you know, because it's the summer. We've been traveling, you know, I mean, k and then we're just in l a, Like it just doesn't it nothing's normal yet. So I think once things are like normal, like normal schedules, normal everything,

then I think it'll kind of hit me. Right now, I kind of feel just like you know, relating tomorrow, you know, just like travel and all that has just made it feel it doesn't feel normal yet, so I think, yeah,

you know, I mean, I can relate to that. It's always like when I come home, which is why Hi, I'm in Atlanta, so like, this is one of the reasons why I'm in Atlanta right now is because and I texted Katherine and Christen because I'm like, hey, guys, I'm going to Atlanta because as much as I love my space and time home for that the week that I'm not with the kids, I'm kind of just like for the summer schedule, it's like I just feel very out of place in my house and it's like just

like how you're alone right now to in your house, like it's amazing, but but then I feel like at times kind of like all right, like I want to get out of here because it makes me sad or I mean, may before you're enjoying it because your kids are like you in the entire house to yourself. But I know what you mean. Though it's a little weird. It's a little disorienting for sure, but they're just gone for a month and they'll come back and mess everything

up again. You only get a month, I know, But I love you, and I just wanted to check in on you in the in the closet. Um, So do you know how I met Emily? Didn't you like stalker? Yeah, so Emily Giffen is it is? But it's the truth. Yeah, you can't stalk someone when you have mutual Like, no, I didn't know where it was not true. So she my closest cousin who lives in well, she's in DC now,

when she lived in Kentucky at the time. She's like, how in the world do you know Jane Crant had such street cred there for we got so much love. By the way, because we had a wine night last night, Everyone's like, oh my god, how are you guys? Friends? Like that's so cool. And I'm like, well, I stopped her older wiser mentor whatever. I schooled you. You did, Actually, she she did. She I opened up more to her

last night than I ever do I ever do. It was weird, but I feel like you're on this transformational Yeah, a little bit. You're a little bit. Just you know, it's my my sons are going to college in the fall and so, and they're twins. There's two at once, and we're downsizing a bit, and just you know, I'm still my career is the same and the marriage is the same. But I just feel like there's a lot

of like, you know, I've got on. Well, I was researching this this place that's like a great place to like, Okay, I just wasn't yeah, um, but I was looking at the middle program, the non trauma program, and it was like, do you feel this way? Do you feel this way? And it was really interesting and I texted her right away this morning. Some of them, yeah, some of them.

But I think I'm always in the camp that, you know, whatever is happening in your life is whether you're you know, getting a divorce and sitting in the closet or your sons are going to call it like, there's always change happening. And if there isn't change happening, it's going to happen anyway, you know. And so and you have to sort of embrace these transitional moments and and just you know, be the best version of yourself at all times. And I

think that's what you've become. You've really good at that, Like you've really like gained a lot of what you had some nuggets of wisdom. I'm supposed to be the older wiser one buss is because I came back from on site. So I told her. I was like, man, because things things change when you go. When you put yourself in these transformational places like you see, you start to see change. Yeah, And I was telling why I think, yeah right. I was telling my assistant Kate about it.

Who's you know? She she's um been with, We've been working together forever. We're very close. But I was sort of giving her the rundown and Janny says, yes, she should go too, and I'm like, wait, you don't know a single thing about her. But I thought that was so interesting that I replayed it later because I thought to myself, probably every human, like everyone could benefit. I mean, not every one has the luxury of being able to find the time or the the money or whatever to go.

But like, I think it was interesting that your reaction is she should go too. I think everybody should do work and self discovery. And I think that's, um, it's only going to help what man. I was Oh, man, someone said, um, you end up bleeding over if you don't. If you don't, God, this is this is I'm like that person that just butchers every single I am the worst and then but Katherine whatever, you were the same. I can't do sayings whatever those are called, but you

just I butcher them terribly. You butcher lyrics too all the time. I remember any time I put my mic out, y'all, it's because I don't remember the lyrics. Everybody that that's hilarious. Why is like the like really you know good but like in WAYI wan or whatever, but like, no, no, I'll be like and they all nail it. Nope, most of the time they don't know the song either. Um but no, though, the saying was like, if you don't fix your wound, you're gonna end up bleeding all over

the next person. Oh M. Like so if you don't like, you can keep putting a bandaid, bandaid, band aid, but like, that wound's gonna keep getting reopen. It's gonna keep getting reopened, and the next relationship that you're in, if you haven't fixed that wound, you will end up bleeding all over

the person that did not cut you. So interesting. You bring that up a conversation that Amy and I had the last session, where it is basically we talked about on site, we talked about and She's like, you know, you can take this time and you can just veg out and do all and do all that for a little while. You know, like you can do this, do that. You know. She's like, but if you don't take steps and you don't have intentions and you don't change things,

it's going to go over into the next relationship. And I'm like, oh no, that's why I'm still here. You know. It's just so it's so interesting because that's so true, Like I could easily skirt through this and just like not even think about what I need to change in myself, what I need to do differently what I and then just walk into the next relationship the same person. But that was I just think of that, Yeah, and it'll

be the same. You will be the same cast, and the man will be or woman whoever will be not saying but you know what I'm saying, like to the person listening to the the man will be the same cast, just different face, like the same character, different face. And that's you know, something that I quickly realized after my relationships, after my divorce. I was like, oh wow, this is now something that like I have to fix my stuff,

you know. So that because I also think too, Like healthy attracts healthy, right, So I'm a big believer in that as well, Like you attract what you are. Sure, yeah, I believe in that. Or for sure, don't be the Devil's advocate. Be the devil advocate. We want devil's advocate on the show. I still believe in that that the kit kat bar you can you really have. But I

think that what's the saying I'm whatcher sayings too. It's so funny that you say that, but like you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with, Like have you heard that one? The average like cannot necessarily average, but like you're you're going to be like if you spend time with if three of the five people that you spend time with their toxic, that's gonna

rub off on you. If you spend time with all people, which would be really you know, kind of like you're not seeking people out just because they have like a higher cue or well adjusted. I mean, we have relationships with all kinds of people. But if you, for some reason, had five your five closest relationships were all with like brilliant, completely well adjusted people, then you think about how much that would elevate your I mean, you don't audition your

people for to be perfect. But yeah, um, but yeah, I think it's interesting in the same way. We are all such different people, right, Yeah, Well, when I think if you spend time with five very different types, I mean, that reflects on who you are too, if you find if if it's five toxic people, that's bad. You know, if it's five needy people, that's I don't know. But then I always remind my daughter of that because she's you know, she's fifteen, and you know, there's the peer group.

Is everything right? And I just keep I just keep reminding her that, like is this do you want to be like her? Do you want? Is that what you want to be like? Because if it's not, then you might want to consider dropping her out of the top five. Oh like my Space days, get out of my top I think you only have five? You had eight, We had five. I mean, i'd know why I'm getting five bridesmaids, so you know what I mean? Like, I think I could tailor it. I think you could make it less.

The fewer than eight. I keep. I keep my group. Even though I say I have a bunch of best friends, I still keep my inner queendown and like it's five girls, queenom is five. There you go. So that's why I seen it's like top five since I always like go um okay, Emily. So I met Emily because I, okay, this is really embarrassing. And I don't know if I've ever told you this. I've never read a book ever until Something Borrowed. You mean that wasn't a close assignment ever?

Did you just to cliff notes? For sure, I would read the first page, the back page, the middle, and then do my assignment. I've never I never. That doesn't it terrible? I never read a book. I hated reading. I literally loathed reading. But I think a lot of people feel that way until they find the right book. That's not uncommon, I think too to you know, for and I've I've been told that before book signing. Yeah, I think my books are pretty easy to read, accessible

and you know, character driven. So I you know, and I think maybe someone like you told someone else who doesn't read a lot that same thing, and they pick it up and they read it. But it's about the right book, finding the connection to the right book. Something Borrowed is your first book, right, it was. So that was then the first book that I read, and I don't remember how, I'm sure I think it was, you

know what it was. It was I saw the movie was about to come out, and so I was like, oh cool, I've never this looks like a really cool movie. I want to read the book before it comes out. That's what you're supposed to do. So but no, it's not because I actually got mad about the casting. Oh well, yeah, I mean I thought the casting was great, but she doesn't look like I didn't Darcy in the book, and I thought Rachel was off. She thought she was. Yeah,

she was Jennifer good one and Kate she's great. Love Jennifer. But I was like, I just imagined Rachel as like I would have casted like a Rachel McAdams, or like she got off with the part. First. She did not say that I love it. I always want to know because she actually was the very first person we went out to and she she turned it down. Yeah, feel bad because like I'm I was thrilled with that's a

good one. Did. But yeah, it's really funny that you said that, because I think we felt that it's nothing about Jenny's acting ability. Because I thought she was fabulous. But the picture that my I pictured, Rachel McAdams like, that's closer to what I pictured, and I think so did the producers, which is why we we went out to her first. But Jenny was one of our top choices and she was she was great. But yeah, but I'm glad you read it because we wouldn't be sitting here.

I know. Well, so then I read it because my thing is like I don't like reading books when it's not in first person, so like when someone says he said she said the entire time, or I'm like, I'm so confused that, like you've already lost me because you want well, I think it's probably no, I don't think that you did, you would not get lost. And that's what I think. What it is is you you you

want the immediacy of the experience. I'm like, Sue said, what like, I want to I want to be reading it and going like I want to feel like I am I'm reading your story like so connected to like if I'm just reading what the author is saying, what the person is saying, I'm kind of like, and then I do, Katherine, I get confused. I'm like wait, who

is Are you dyslexic? Maybe? Maybe? Yeah. I mean a lot of people that aren't sort of under the age of who are dyslexic don't know they were because if they're not, they're so vigilant about it now at testing and so forth. But I bet you are a lot of really brilliant people. Obviously let me, Steve Jobs was dyslexic. I mean, like a lot of brilliant people are dyslexic. They're just more visual unless you know, like I don't do like like I wouldn't say, like, God, I know

that's a dog. Well that's but are you a slow reader? Are you a slow wrider? Are you a slow reader? Obviously I'm just what he's like, God, those who you know? But that's trying to be funny. That only happens sometimes. But my daughter is dyslexic. And then I was like, you know, I'm not and it runs in families and we had her tested and they said she's dyslexic. Probably one of you is dyslexic. And I'm thinking, well, I'm not, you know, like I'm like, actually, one of the things

I'm good at is reading and writing. And I looked at my husband, and I was like, oh, it's you, and I realized that he was. He's the slowest reader. You know, when you're like reading a magazine or a newspaper together on an airplane, like and you're sharing the thing and you get to the end and you turn the page and the other person's like wait, wait wait, and I'd be like, okay, thinking like a few seconds and like all this time goes by before he'll but

he's he's dyslexic. I sometimes actually read too fast, and I don't remember what I read, so I have to reread and then reread and reread. I like I reread the same thing over and over and over again. Is that that's that's a d D two Okay, great, well yeah, but they really go hand in hand. Just have a d D. And I'm just well, your creative and in your interpersonal skills are off the chain. I mean there's lots of different forms of and tell your emotional intelligence

is your e Q is crazy high? Oh I got like a four team on my A C T, so not incredibly smart. But that's e Q. It's reading people's e Q. Oh yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that great. Yeah, different things, yeah, Okay, yeah, I Q not not so much there. Um, Katherine, you read a lot though, right, I mean I wouldn't say a lot. I feel like you get that big thick books sell those scary people have, like like thrillers, Like I'm kind of like a guy with my books. Yeah, you please read one of her books.

And she's like, I like mystery. I've asked you. Okay. So, out of all my books, the Lies that Bind, which is the one that I wrote last, it was the one that came out before this most recent, is the most thrillery and plot twisty. So I would recommend for you to read the Lines of Wine and they may have that into a limited series which we're gonna talk about in a second. And so I think that's the one for you if you like, if you like that,

you know, kind of quick plot. I have to have that because I really am not really a reader for that be like like what's going to happen next? And I just won't do it. Read. So back to me sliding into So I finished something borrowed and I'm like, holy crap, I've never read a book ever. I'm feeling so smart, so like like just happy and I need to know what's happening, like I need the next book, And so I go on Instagram and I just slide right into your d M s and I'm like, I'm

obsessed with you. Oh my god, your books amazing. Just Hi, I'm Janet Kramer. You probably have no idea who I am, but like I just like embellishing this, just like I mean, just like stroking her ego and telling how much I love her and saying like if like please please let me know like when your next book comes out. I mean I think I signed up even for like email alerts, like that's how obsessed I was. And then she DM

me back and we've been friends ever since. Yes, we have UM and I've read every single one of her books. I'm halfway through Meant to Be, which is out right now, and it's so good. Yeah, we were going to do this podcast later, but then you were in town, and so we're doing it now, and she's read enough of it so that I mean, we're not We wouldn't discuss the plot anyway, because no, no, we're not going to

discuss the plot. But there are some questions that I ask people about what is and they wanted to know what is your favorite book, if you could rank your top three books. It was one of them that came through. Yeah, that's hard, and I was like, oh, that's a good question because I've got mine. I mean, it's so much about time and place when you read something like I love the Broke Back Mountain. It's a novella that the movie was based on, but I think I read it

at a time in my life. That and she's a brilliant writer. Um that would be one member of the wedding. I mean, um no, Carson Mco. The books that you wrote. I was like, I was like you right, Brokeback Mountains. You're like, did you? I was like, wow, okay, okay, I'm sorry we're talking. I thought we were. You know, your your books. But that's I mean, it's good to know. Okay. Yeah. Backing up, Um, I think Something Blue the sequel or something Borrowed. So that's my sentimental favorite. It's one of

the top three. And then I would say Meant to Be, which a lot of people are saying is most like Something Barred and Something Blue, which is the one that just came out. And then I love the One and Only, but it's the one that I would say people like a lot of people like the least. The people who love it love it, but the people who because it's about a girl who falls in love with her best friend's father, and a lot of people thought it was creepy.

I know, and I love you for that character. I love so I always say, old man, I think he would kill that. Oh my god, I love the sports. She loves sports, and she falls in love with this, like really, Friend was like yeah, Friend was like so upset about and I just remember being like, oh but I loved that book. I thank you read that. Thank you. But that's what I mean. You loved it. But a lot of people like it's my lowest star review on Amazon.

But the people who love it love it. And I think, you know, a lot of people say it's fascinating to me because I wrote a book something Borrowed where the girl the protagonist, falls in love with her best friend's fiance and has sex with him the whole summer leading up to her best friend getting married, like that is the most unlikable thing that you can do, and women read it and love it and everyone excuses her. They're like, well, very aggressive, and yeah, they all excuse her, and everyone

loves the book. Then I write this One and Only, which is about a girl who falls in love with their best friend's father. The mother's debt, she's passed away. Like, there's no infidelity in this book. Granted there's an age difference and it would be a little weird if, like, you know, but people are like, oh my gosh, I can't believe she did that. I'm like, she actually didn't

do anything wrong, she didn't know. And then they throw out the word incest, which is like super like super definitional, like incest is when you have sex with someone you're related to, Like, there's no incest in the book. But it's just it's interesting. But I love that. I love my books can make people sort of feel extreme ways, like that some people love them and some people hate them. And you know, certain books like and I will love another one. And it's like, I don't ever want to

write a book that everybody just likes. I want to always write books that some people love and some people like it bothers them. It's a conversation. Yeah, it's it's like you want to sort of evoke emotion. That's so interesting Now that I'm thinking about it, because really, Darcy was the one that people didn't like. It's like, no, no, she was cheating on her best friends, Like oh my gosh,

Like I didn't even like I loved Rachel. I wanted Rachel to have but then because because and that's sort of like that's something that I try to do in every book, Like we are so messy and complicated, like human beings, like we you know, our relationships are messy and complicated. We end up hurting the people we love the most. We mess things up. We have to be forgiven,

we have to forgive others. And I just think that's what I try to capture when I write of all those like complexities and who we are as as people, but especially as women, and try to make my readers relate to the to the you know, characters and root for them in spite of what they're doing because they're often doing messed up things. Well another yeah, because I

mean what we all do? We all do? Yeah, I mean the one, um, gosh, everyone there's always something where it's um the lawyers, Oh no, they know they were in jury jury duty. Oh that was the green book that was love, the one You're with Love the one you're with. That was about the one who got away away she done her husband? She did, Yeah, she did too. There was some fidelity that one, and I remember being like, but I was a mandator. Yeah, well she didn't totally

cross the line. And then that book was written in two thousand and eight, so if you didn't read it, we're going to spoil the plot. But that's sort of the one that's like, everyone has someone that they can't get out of their system, like someone from their past that they cook like, that they look up on Facebook, that they stalk, that they like to have that person. I mean, married for how many years? Twenty years? But yeah, I'd say I did for a lot. Well, I am

in this weird category. I'm not trying to evade the question because I will answer it. But I still talk to all my like almost all my ex boyfriends, Like I still am good friends with him. Like I just got a message from my college boyfriend today said, my parents saw you in Good Morning America. I don't think I wrote him back either. Um, but I love him my door room he stayed at the house. Yeah yeah, Um, and my husband loves when he comes to the house.

He's a writer. He writes for TV, and so it's kind of he would probably be my one who got away, but because we're friends, like he's my most significant X in other words, but we're still friends. Is there a story based on him? No, there actually isn't. I mean, we are so much friends that it almost feels like we're cousins. Like it's really which I think is why

you can be really friends. But there was someone in New York that that gave me that feeling of like I needed to look him up and like I need to what he was doing. But recently, like he's totally out of my system, like I don't care anymore. Well, I mean I didn't care even then, but you still, right, you're still curious even if you it's not that you want to be with them and you pine for them,

but you're just curious, like you're sort of wonder. Yeah, you always kind of look up right cat, like you're just kind of like, oh, I wonder what they're doing. Yeah, because you want to be with them, and sometimes affirmatively because you certainly don't want to be with them, right, you know, sometimes that's right makes you feel better about your decisions. Yeah, you want to feel, you know, an

affirmation that you know about that. But there's a lot of material to mine with women in our relationships, for sure. I mean I had like three ideas from my next book when you were here last night, Oh tell us more, Well, no, because we'd be revealing was it was it? Was it based on my life or yeah, there was like a couple of things you said. Remember, I'm like, this could be a character. Yeah, yeah, based all your books on

somebody you know? Or do you just kind of come up or it's scenarios, So it's more like inspirations for like an idea, you know. Baby Proof was my third book about a woman who didn't want to have a baby in her husband did that was based on it was supposed to be the other way around, And then all the tabloids were saying that Jennifer didn't want to have a baby, which we found out wasn't necessarily the truth,

but that was what they were saying. And I'm like, oh, let me flip this and make the woman not want to have the baby. So that was like a tabloid inspiration, which is the only time that's happened. But yeah, you it's more of a scenario like, oh my gosh, what would happen if you fell in love with your best friend's Beyonce or you were attracted to your um best friend's dad or you know, like so it'll be like

but it's not. You know, it's not not that I would do a character who's like Jana and looks like Janet is Janet, but it's she was describing something about her life last night, and I thought, oh, this would be a good scenario a set up for a book, not like a set up as in a blind date setup, but like as a as a starting point set up. I know. I'm just like, she's good. Your books just make me at the end because I'm just they just make me happy. Um, because usually it ends, there's one

that like it didn't end. I was like, no, you're pissed at me. I think wrapped and yes, I like him wrapped in a bow. Right, Yeah, that's like you don't always get that, but you don't always get the bow, but you usually get like a hopeful And isn't that sort of you know again the metaphor of the empty closet, like, it's not it's not the best you've ever felt in your life? Probably but it's also like you're really hope. It's like you're hopeful, like it's like there's a lot

of potential here. And that's how I feel like, Janna, You've you've managed to find that place through difficult times. I think you feel a sense of hope and excitement about the future. So that's what I want from my characters. No, I love and I love that you love them. For the most part, I know I love them. And Um, someone just said, which I think we just is there any book character that Janna you'd want me to play? But we just said that I think you would kill.

I don't know if you've read this one, but The Heart of the Matter, I've read every single you would kill and I have told I could you know, I can talk the producer right now and perv it um that I think you would. You would kill either role in um Heart of the Matter, but especially the Valerie role. She's the single mother whose son is Blake burned. Um, yeah, she would. You would. You'd be so good at that. But you've got that, You've got that confidence and vulnerability. Yeah,

you're welcome. Um what here? Lets how do you find? Okay, you already that one Um, new Emily Giffen Reader, which book should I start with? Meant to be most recent? Meant to be most recent? And the reason that I say that is because it's set the farthest back in time. It's set in the mid nineties in New York and the Hampton's about the most eligible bachelor in the world, people's sexiest man alive. Um, and he falls in love with a girl sort of you know, from with a

troubled background, and it's a love story. It's a it's a summer read. You can escape to the not only into this relationship in this world, but literally into the past, back to the nineties. I think it's the it's the one to start with. Will there ever be a Something Blue movie? There was like a million questions about that Something Blue. Um, they're okay, So here's the dilemma. So

Something Blue is the book that is right after Something Borrowed. So, UM, I'm just gonna out him right now because I already did it at a signing. Do you see not out him? But Colin won't want to No, No, Colin would love to do John Krasinski, who's Ethan who would then be the lead. And Something Blue? So Kate Hudson's So I don't know where Kate stands, but I feel like we could convince Kate. But I don't feel like John's wanting to do that. Where he is in his career, he's

directing more and producing more. So I think we should do a reboot of the whole series and do a limited series. You get all the back story. I think we should do a limited series like a three season of Something Bartered and Something Blue with all new characters. Yes, that's what I think. And I would like to play Rachel, and we'd pick you over Rachel McAdams. I mean, you shouldn't see if you get Rachel um but I wow, that's and I feel like you need to do that

because you need to then reboot. Yeah, something you have to You have to bring something borrowed back right to do Something Blue. Sure, but you need Something Blue. It needs to show all that backstory of the friendship. And I'll tell you this, everyone's had a friendship that's complicated like that. Don't you think like a friendship where you

like love each other and hit each other. Have you ever had that cat you love each other and hay, like you love someone but you also can't and her and you then you and you want to like it's me cat h No, definitely not. Well, that happens. For sure. That happens, I think typically when we're younger, but can

happen at all ages. I swear. I go over to my mom's community retirement home and there's like drama with people, like they didn't invite her to someone to dinner, and you know, I think, I don't think we ever completely grow out of some of that drama. That makes me think of like just these industries in general. You know how it's all kind of like you know, like actors and singers and everything. It's like they're friends, but are they really friends. They kind of love each other, but

they kind of ate each other. That's what makes me think of that. Well, I really like that idea, And let me know how I can help because that would be really cool. Well you're helping right now and talking about it. The buzz. We needs to it needs to be out there. We need to do We need to do a limited series, something Borrowed, something Blue, all new characters. That would be so amazing. Um. Okay, there's what advice would you give to an aspiring aspiring writer. Um, okay,

one thing, I wouldn't call yourself an aspiring writer. I would call yourself a writer. Lose the aspiring because if you're writing, you're a writer. Whether or not you're published doesn't change what it is you do. And so I think that would be my starting point. But also just right, right, just right all the time, and don't worry about, you know, getting published, like right what you love and then eventually you'll find success if that's what you want. What about

when you're in a writer's block? What do you do? Well? What do you do when you don't want to work out and go to the gym? I don't go so well, it's like and then I don't go the next day, and I don't go the next but eventually you go, right, I mean, writer's block is really just and it happens to me all the time, but it's really just like it's too hard. You don't want to do it, you don't feel like doing it, you can't you're not in the headspace. You just have to make yourself do it.

It's like when you don't want to work out, you often you don't and I'm right there with you, but just put your shoes on and go out the door and at least go for a walk. Like that's how you should approach writing, just at least just right. You know, write down anything. You can always fix bad words, You can always fix a bad scene, but you can't fix no scene at all a blank paper. So you know what, that's a really good metaphor too, Like you can fix

you can fix these things, but you can't fix this thing. Yeah, you can't fix nothing. Yeah, and sometimes nothing feels easier. I'm trying to like finde I love a good I love a good quote brine, I'm a she loves it. No that is I'm going to do a little video. Okay, Lies That Bind? What is that going to be on? Let me so it's a limited series, So what is that going to be on? Um? The Lies That Bind? We're developed develop uping it right now. So I read

the pilot, which is awesome. What is it going to be? And um, we don't know. We we haven't brought it out to streamership, so we have it to our an actress. So I'll tell you after I'm gonna I'm already getting in trouble like three times over right now. So but it's a five parts, five shows. I read the pilot. It's amazing. It's a little more um cat you'll like it even more than you like my book. But that's

not to say you need to write the read the book. Yeah, but it's it's even more twisty, you know, as because TV that's what you need, right the hook at the end of the first series. So, um, to wrap it up, why should people read Meant to Be? They should read all of them? But like, what's the thing and meant

to Be? And I know you said it's a love story, but like, is there is there something that they're going to really get from it that like, well, it's it's um it's inspired by John Kennedy Jr. And Caroline Bassett like icons obviously, like Carolin Massett's i'le icon And you know, the whole notion of what if, what would have happened if they hadn't died in that plane crash sort of inspired me to to write this book. But you know, I think if you're looking for a beach read that

is a page turner. Like everyone says they read this in like one sitting, which is sort of a depressing thing to tell an author, because you're like, I took two years of my life and you read it. You didn't even get up to pee, Like, oh my gosh, wait, but isn't that such a compliment. It is? Here's it's it is. I love when people say that normally four kids, I would read your book in two days, Like I mean, that's how fast? And like now it's obviously taking me

a little longer because like working kids. But like I almost don't want to read it to be finished it, to be honest with you, because then then what do I have. I don't need the book. You'll have to wait two years. It's exhausting to wait. I need you to come on. It's an escape. Though, this book is an escape. I've written some darker ones, like the one set in Nashville. All we Ever Wanted was dark? My name wasn't that one? Yeah? Yeah it was. It wasn't

always screamed um, but it's that's darker. If you want like a darker book that really makes you think I do. The Cobalt Blue and All we Ever Wanted but meant to be is an escape And don't we all need that right now? Yes? Don't we? I think we do Emily. Where can all of our amazing listeners find you. I won't give him your address, don't worry. Only I can stalk her and find out her address. Um, you can find me on Instagram at Emily Giffen author and I have a book club if you're looking for one book

a month to read and then discuss. Um, it's at e G Book Club, which, Um, it's a lot of fun to just we chat with the author live and um it's very so yeah, it's fun and um and yeah, I just joined TikTok. Oh my gosh, that's a whole new world. I just it's at Emily Emily giff An author too. But I just joined it because my kids are all three teenagers is and they're insisted that I get on. And so I don't know how. I mean, I don't do it often, But did you do it?

I mean everyone's mom. But I only know what I'm not like creative enough. You are, figures you are. It's just complicated, it's very compete. Um. We love you, Emily. I love you too, Katherine. How you doing over there? Bad? Y'all? Have fun, enjoy your wine, enjoy your time, ladies. That was a lot of fun and um, I promise that I will um not uh stalk you completely and you can't know we're from I know it's true. I love you, Um Catherine, love you. Get out of your closet okay.

By guys Susan Okoye. Nice to meet you.