Yeah, fine podcast.
Would you stop talking over our intro?
It's half the fun guys.
The gang's all here.
The gang's all here, We're all back.
Yay, Mark Easton, Mike and Janna, just the whole crew.
That's the wrong order, I think, is it?
No? I mean, it's okay, it's fine. We're back in Nashville, we're back from New Iberia, Louisiana.
We are two episodes there. Yeah, yeah, wow.
Last one was just basically you in Easton holding it down, which I started to listen to it, and then you were kind of talking bad about me. So I was just like, I'm not gonna talk. I'm not gonna listen to this.
I didn't talk anything bad about you. You gotta listen to it in its entirety, Okay, right, Easton?
Yeah, you're very complimentary and and i'd like to say we got some rave reviews from that episode.
Oh by the way, I was sitting in bed last night and Mike starts laughing and I said, what's so funny? And he goes. Easton just texted me saying that someone appreciated our nerd talk.
The email was so good.
They wanted us to break down the Spider man, stuff going on, that's not did.
You, Jana, did you get any feedback from any of the episodes?
Yeah? They really liked y'all's perspective on things. Really yeah, which is I do want to listen. It's just so funny the timing in which I listened to it, because I fast forwarded some of the stuff to get to where you were at right, and then it was just like, you know, Jane and I have been and she's been. I was like, man, just right to just like.
It because it had none of it was about what's Jana doing wrong? M there's more about what I'm doing wrong. Actually, that's true. I want to be honest here.
It was just funny though, But I really truly wanted to listen. But it's been a little busy, but I'm excited to get in the car. I should have listened to it today, but I was listening to the new Taylor Swift CD album so really good. You know what I've never been? How do I say this?
I I'll say it for us. Okay, Usually from a first listen within like a new t O Swift song, Jane and I are in the same boat where usually it's like I'm not a big fan of it, but then after we listen to it several times, we're like, actually, this is a really good song. So usually we don't like a T Swift song from the initial listen, but with everything she's had recently.
We're jamming, jamming, Like today, Jolie was being a monrat in the car and I was like, you need to calm down, you're being too loud. I'm just like, uh oh, and then I started putting it out and she starts screaming at me. But I just am like jamming to Tea Swift right now. All of a sudden. It's just I don't think I could ever be in her squad per se because I think we're not. I don't think we have a lot in common, but I do think.
But I am like, I love her music. And it was so cool because I saw Demi Levado tweet out to her Instagram's story like, hey, no matter what, girls got to support girls and this music. This girl's putting out amazing music. And it's true. I'm like, yeah, I don't. I don't think I could ever be friends with her, but damn, she's got a really good album right now.
Yeah, what are you any tracks standing out to you that you love, Like, I have a.
Couple that I love, The Dixie Chicks one.
That I cannot. I have a hard time with that one. Really, it makes me cry.
Oh, I haven't listened to It's intense. I mean it was the first time. I mean I was, let me pull up the album right now, but it was the first listen because I was stuck in the car for a long time. So I really liked that one.
Soon You'll get better.
Oh my god, that one just like slayed me. I really liked Cruel Summer.
Yeah, that's that.
There's rumors that's the next single that the tailor says.
That I could hear that. So I was thinking either Cruel Summer was going to be in the next one or there was another one that I was listening to that was I was like, Okay, this could be another single too.
It seemed like a single.
Yeah, that one does too. I I was, and I liked it. Was weird because I didn't think I would like the Miss Americana and the Heartbreak prints. Loved that.
That's growing on me big time.
The man obsessed with.
Yes that's a big one.
Did when the album come out, like a couple weeks ago.
Yeah, the man, I'm like loving The Archer. You know, first listen, I was like, okay, spoppin' I'm not like obsessed with London boy.
No, that was a little weird, you know what I love And The Archer is a good example of this. And as a songwriter, maybe you can help me, because I'm not a songwriter. I feel like her bridges are so much better than anybody else's bridges. Like most people, bridges seem like an afterthought, but for her, she sees it as the absolute build up to the final chorus. Like so it just peaks to this pinnacle and she's so good at that, and.
That's what I think makes her a really good songwriter. Not to like go on this like Tee Swift run right now, but like usually whenever I'm writing, writers hate bridges. They just hate it. They're like they don't think it's necessary. A lot of them don't write bridges, And most of times I'm like, well, let's just repeat the chorus, do a breakdown course, and that's usually what ends up being the bridge. And just to your point, she takes advantage of the bridge and like knocks it out of the Park.
So for those of us who have no idea what you're talking.
About, after the second chorus is the bridge. So like after the first verse, second verse, you know, first first verse, then it comes the first chorus, then the second verse, second chorus, and then there's the bridge.
But after the second carrier the chorus, is there another version then the bridge.
No, it would go go verse chorus and then end. That's born So but most people just but then most people just will do like like if you listen to any of my songs that I write, I'm like, just do a breakdown chorus and then go into the chorus and then.
The hard parts the chorus. Right, that's the really, that's what you put the most effort into.
Yeah, because you wanted to be super hit, like super cooky, catchy sing along. But man, I mean, she just she she freaking slayed that album. And again, first listen there was I haven't listened. I didn't. I wasn't able to listen to two of the songs, like I didn't hear False God or Daylight. But yeah, it was just it was good. And it's funny because we haven't genuinely loved
everything she's put out. I mean I loved her back in the country days for sure, but even Michael and I both were like, hey, babe, I like me.
I was like I do do or even we were listening to Alexa the other night with Jolie dancing around making dinner and mean came on. Yeah, I forgot how that that song's so old, but it's so good.
I love all of our country stuff. A lot of people my friend, well, my friend, our friend Sarah thought she was making a country album.
Sir he Gretzky. She thought that this recent album was going to be a country I.
Just kept thinking it was gonna be a counry album, which would be an interesting But I like the fact that she kind of got the Dixie Chicks on there. Anyways, I know we just like went off on a major tea swifferent but so yeah, now you got to listen to it. I will mark what's been up with you? Because I feel like we haven't wind down with you lately.
Everything's fine. We spend Labor Day up in Ohi at this resort up there that every year Ryan Seacrest, that's the one gets me a weekend there with my family. That's the greatest gift anyone's gotten me, and but now there is competition as of this year, until this year, it's the greatest year.
He's like, it's the greatest gift ever. I mean, I'm sorry, Mike, thank you for your present.
I see Ryan Seacrest's game arm right.
Next month.
I have all these bruises on my upper arm. Here you can't see them, but Easton can see those bruises. Easton, Oh god, what happened? It because we were playing in the pool and this nine year old girl made friends with my kids, and then I kind of joined them. We were playing. I had this ball and that their job was to get the ball away from me, and this girl thought it'd be good to slow me down by pinching my inner arm. And this was like the random girl, This random girl just to just crawl all
over me and my arm. And so now I got bruises all over my arm. But her to stop, I mean a little bit, but.
That she needs to calm down.
She does, she.
Did, but it's fine, But everything's good.
Thank you for asking good?
Are you okay?
But I should say the gift joking that we were doing that jan and Might got me a pretty fantastic gift for my birthday.
It was all Mike, I'm really bad with birthdays.
That's honestly, it's from the two of you.
It's from us, it is, it's from you, it's from us. If it's from you, it's from us.
They know that I'm a big Milwaukee Brewers fan. They got me a baseball bat autograph, no idea robbing you out the greatest brewer of all time. That was pretty cool, really above and beyond, because I expected nothing. I mean, why would you get me anything?
Because Here's where I'm stressing though, is now Easton's birthday is coming up. But now I feel like it's like, that's the thing with gifts, you.
Know, I love I love it though.
Oh I love giving gifts, you know me, I'd rather give gifts to everybody. But my thing is is like it's just you know, it's a lot.
Not It's not about the amount. It's about knowing what that person appreciates and loves more. I feel like the most is easy.
Yeah, you just buy him like an Avengers T shirt.
He's so passionate about a number of things.
You know.
The greatest gift is just being a part of this podcast.
That's really it Easton. By the way, I loved seeing you on set the other day. Oh, you just were like chumming it up. Although I was very upset you didn't say bye.
Well, you were in the middle of you were making a major motion picture. I didn't want to interrupt there for a lifetime.
Guys, let's calm down with the major motion thing.
It's gonna be fantastic.
And November sixteenth, Oh wow, oh yeah it is.
Yeah, November sixteenth.
Christmas and Louisiana.
I can't wait to watch.
It's funny tho because if you go on my IMDb, it's like Christmas in Mississippi, Christmas and Louisiana. We said, let's do it. I'm really excited about the guests we have on today.
It's gonna be awesome.
She's a doctor.
Yeah, that's it.
Well, no, she's I just like with this up that she talks about.
No, it's gonna be awesome. We're gonna have doctor Judy Hoe on the podcast later today. She has a new book out called Stop Self Sound Abitage, Six Steps to Unlock Your True Motivation. I have a lot of questions about that.
I have a lot of questions about the last name like would you change your last name? Like would you not get married to someone because their last name was Hell? Just a valid question.
That's like al blessings, but that.
Is true Michael's best friend al Butt because that sounds. But so I'm like, when you meet a guy, I mean, I know I do. Like when I'm in middle school high school and you're doing the hearts like Janna, you know Thomas or whatever, It's like Janna, but Janna hoe be interesting.
You got to factor that in when you meet someone.
What I'm saying I think you do is that rude to factor in? And okay, here I come the emails. I'm not being you know, I'm not being mean. I'm just saying, is it is it something where you're just like, I just love the person so much. My last name is Penis.
I think I think some people definitely look into that. I mean, you hate our last name just.
Because I'm not a fan of it. But it's only because people can't understand. I literally say I on the phone coffin c A U S S as in Sam I N. They're like, okay, miss Coffin, and I'm like, I literally just spelled it out for you.
Mike is still Mike Kramer in my phone.
As I should be.
Oh, I love it.
I didn't think of the Coffin element.
It's so and I the part that bothers me is that I go out of my way to spell it out for them.
Hates our last name too, and that's kind of molenit skim. It's just cumbers.
Oh yeah, I guess to a degree.
But I also am a little insulted when she hates it so much?
Are you insulted when I hate yours? Ours?
Exactly my case. I think that's why Ja doesn't even consider it her last name, even though legally it is.
It's but I'm just because it's just it is frustrating, though, like when when you when you go out of your way to say s S as in super or Sam, and people still say, Okay, miss Coffin, I get.
It, I've dealt with it my whole life, or they add an Ellen there for claws in which I never even mentioned.
So then why would you be offended if we went to Kramer?
Because the best thing is is a lot of times Jana still books things under Jana Kramer because it's just easier, and so Janna would give me crap like all the time about my last name and the issue. So she booked something Kramer. We show up to this resort for a vacation and they say, oh, welcome, mister and missus Premier. And I was one time that's all I need, That's all I needed was one person to pronounce it incorrectly.
But I always say, this is actually his last names Cosson. Let's say cossin places like when we go to a hotel.
I don't care. Maybe early on I was a little bit more self conscious. Now I'm like, yo, say your last name, let's get hooked up. I was like, I'll be mister Kramer.
A free ice cream, it's about it.
I'll take it.
I met a family over the weekend whose last name was Hamburger. If Mike had been Mike Hamburger, would you be Jenna Hamburger.
See that is just where That's exactly my point. And I'm curious that I want. I truly want people to because I'm not trying to be vain. This isn't this is just a fun topic conversation. I'm truly not trying to be at any Yeah, and at the end of the day, I would love him no matter what, I just think it's funny. So I'm just curious if anyone else has any funny last names or what they could have married.
And there's got to be someone that listens.
Name mister Seaman was our swim coach, and I'm like, in high school, I'm like, would I be a missus Seman? I don't know, Like again, if your last name was Semen, it's just it's just you got you have to have real like you know, hello mister Seman and shout out to my swim coach.
My wife, Aliston could not wait to change her name. Her last name was Drinker and when she was in college her first name is Alison. Her email address was a drinker You see and see that you and she hated it. It cuts you off after.
Sell like I would never actually ask doctor Hoe if she is that it? Yeah, doctor Howe see again, Like I would never actually ask her.
You're not going to I thought this was all a part of setup to you.
Because I'm not. I'm actually not rude. Contrary for popular popular opinions, I would never actually ask. But I'm just curious. What's our email address? Again?
It's wind downradio dot com.
So please send me like the best last name you've heard for real. I just really want to know because I think it's funny.
Call out of the morning show named worm and that's why he was calling his wife or his fiance didn't want to take his last name really yeast Morning show.
Yes, so it's definitely happens.
Definitely happens.
I mean, if you guys were to take it, let's say, I know guys don't take names, but if you were, I mean, was it something where I mean, would you like your last name to be vagina?
Yes?
Yes, yes, I'll change my first name.
I just asked guy, Oh my god, Michael, a lot of vagina would.
Be really bad.
Your last name is vagina. And it wasn't spelled the traditional way of spelling it. It was like V A J H, Y and E. And then you're like every time you have to say it's vagina V Y g H.
You know, maybe I asked a guy a wrong question. I shouldn't say. Let's say it was your last name was scrotum, would never be you know, let's see, let's google it.
Last name.
Are more guys going to be taking women's names?
Is it? I don't think it's going to be that. I think it's just going to be. I don't think it's gonna be men taking the women's I think that the women just may decide not to take the men man's last name, but.
Then scro are someone's last name.
That too. I think we googled the same things.
Did you just say scrot them last name?
Did?
Yeah? And it came up with tesccles and scrotum last name, the Scrotum family. Like, here's the thing, Zoe, Zoe Saldano's husband took her last name, right.
Yeah, this time has come. It's just a matter of when it will become one of the tipping point happened where it's a regular thing. It's still I think.
It's a lot of girls now are not taking the man's name at all and just having separate right.
Which I don't necessarily have a problem with. For me, it's just about the kid.
It's about which is why ultimately, which is right?
Right, which is ultimately why you did it because on paper, legally I just wanted.
I want the same last name as Miche.
Yeah, I want the kid. I want the whole family to be where the cautions.
It's weird, it's weird. To have mom and dad her last names.
Yeah.
See, that's I've always thought that was and I just I want my last name to be the same as Jolie's at the end of the day. But I think it's also something where that is probably what's changing now. And it's just like, all right, this is my last name, that's your last name.
Right, which is taking book as we as generations can you on. This is going to be the issue with that is Okay, women are gonna start keeping their last name. Fine, then give it some more time, like twenty more years, and then it's gonna be like women be like, well, why do the kids have to take your name?
What I would want you lay to take my name? That's that's just what's with that?
And that what I'm just saying, this is going to be a debate, probably sooner than later. Just the way the trend of society is going right now is well, why does it Why do we have to take the man's last name? Why do the kids have to take the man's last name? Why can't they take the women's? Why equality?
Are you mocking equality?
Michael, Oh, I'm just saying. I'm just saying there's gonna be it's gonna become some sensitive thing now because society's over freaking sensitive to everything and no one can accept us. Certain things are just the way they are. And I don't see there's anything being wrong with a tradition of that sort.
I think it's for the whole family to have the same name, whether it's his or hers. I think it's weird to have mom one name, dad one name. Some some families have the boy takes dad's name, the girl takes mom's name, to make the kids hyphen the names, which just gets cumbersome.
Yeah, that's weird.
All right, let's take a break and we will come back with doctor how Sweet. All right, I'm excited. Jane is excited. Let's bring in doctor. You're incited. I'm excited. Jana is incided. I'm excited. Jana is excited. Let's bring in doctor Judy Howe.
I'm really great, guys, I'm doing great. How about you, guys, We're good.
We're so excited to talk to you.
Yes, I honestly going into this, I didn't really know much about you, think reading the rundown. Let me just give this to our listeners. You are a Triple Board certified clinical and forensic neuropsychologist and co host of CBS's show Face the Truth with Vivocate a box.
Wow, and you have a book called Stop Self Sabotage. Six Steps to unlock your true motivation, harness your willpower, and get out of your own way. And we were actually just at our son's nine month well visit appointment and Mike was, you know, reading down the rundown, and I said, Wow, this is such a good topic for for both of us. But I think Mike kind of wants to kick it off because he's he's interested to learn more about that.
Yeah, I too. Yeah, let me let me just start you off with this.
With you, we have very we have two very different scenarios.
So yeah, let me start you off with this question, doctor Judy, what is the fine line? Because to me, there's there's a line between being realistic and being self sabotaging, So like, what does that look like in your your professional opinion? Like, what's the difference?
That's an awesome question, actually, and no one's got to ask me that. So this is a great time to kind of talk about that distinction, because you know, there's some people who are just so driven, they have so many goals and maybe they falter on one or two, or maybe they're just a little bit slow in getting to wherever they want it to be. But their vision is really big, and so is that self sabotage? I would say no, because self sabotage is actually repeatedly getting
in your own way despite your best intention. So that's when you say I have this goal, and then you start to work towards that goal. But you are the why you stop your own progress. Not because you know the world, not because well it just takes time to get there, because this is a big dream of yours. No, It's like a good example of this might be somebody who says, okay, I'm going to finally lose you know,
those twenty pounds. My doctors said it would be good for me, let me get healthier, and they're so close, you know, they've been doing so well for two months, and all of a sudden they just go on a crazy binge over a vacation for a week when they didn't have to do that. You know, that would be self sabotaged. Whereas somebody who's saying, well, I want to be you know, the next elite triathlete and they train for a year's like, okay, I'm still not an elite triathlete.
Well that's okay if you're making progress, because that's a huge goal and that takes time sometimes years to get there.
Right, but also realizing that like, Okay, I'm not going anywhere, So is that okay to then stop? When you to what his questions like, Okay, well, obviously you know that you're not going to be the next American idol if you're completely toned off. But yeah, if you keep going and it's like you can do it, like you've got to, it's like when.
Do you right?
Yeah? Again, when's realistic? Because I feel like people in general can talk themselves out of something, and so it's you know, especially for someone like me, and our listeners have heard me say this a lot, just issues with not feeling good enough or never really satisfied with something where I look back in my professional career or sports or this or that and I'm like, did I work as hard as I could even though I know I did, Even though I know that I do, but now after
the fact, I question it. So I'm like, you know what that battle is? Just it drives me.
Nuts on well, totally. And I think that that is you know, much as we talk about like precursors to self davatize, It doesn't mean that you're going to step in it. It just means that these are certain traps that you know, it can sometimes get people into more risky situations where they might self sabotage, or they will on occasion. And you know that sort of self talk or like thoughts is a huge part of it, you know, because we don't have feelings or actions without thoughts first.
And sometimes who just don't notice the thoughts. We notice it that we feel better or we do something. We're like, ah, why don't we do that? But there's always like a thought process that precedes it. And so in my book, I talk about my theory where self sabotage can come from like one or four places, and people can say that they see themselves in a little bit of each one, or they see themselves in all four. It doesn't mean they self sabotage all the time, but it just means
that these are your particular triggers. And so I put it into an acronym called life because that's how I remember things, as like make acronyms and so life, each of them stands for a different factor. And so to your point, Mike, you know what you are talking about could be something like you know, so there's the four acronyms. They stand for L stands for lower shapy self esteem.
I stands for internalized belief You know, things that you might have, you know, even started to learn from childhood, and as an adult you start to adopt them yourself. And then F it's fear of change or the unknown,
and E is a sessive need for control. And so sometimes when you like wonder did I do my best even though you know you did, but that thought is still there, it could be part of life, for example, an internalized beliefs, where like maybe you just learn from a very young age that like you've got to keep trying and like you're not good enough until you keep going, Like there's these messages that you get from parents or coaches or teachers, and then as an adult you start
beating on yourself with those messages even when you have had your best.
Absolutely, I mean that that resonates, resonates completely with me is definitely part of my story. And I have one more situation I want to bring up just personally. And again,
Jane and I are very open the show. So if something for me is like Jana always encouraged me when I was done with my NFL career and everything like that, and even people around me they're like, oh, you should try you know, sportscasting and this and that, and you'd be really good at it, and and me, I, I guess you could call them excuses, but I always told myself, was like, yeah, that'd be great. But almost every player that retires, that's the first thing they want to get into.
And every time that some guy that played for ten plus years is a first you know, first ballot Hall of Famer and multiple Pro Bowls, a Super Bowl, this and that, they get bumped to the top of the list every year those guys retire. So I'm like, you know, maybe I'm not confident in my accolades that I achieved in my career or whatever it may be, But to me, I've thought of it as being realistic and to me and my.
Wife and as his wife, I'm like, Okay, first of all, you don't have a face for radio. You've got a face for TV. You're so charming, you are so like you ask amazing questions. You're so charming and you like you would be and everyone has met him. It's like, you need to do sports broadcasting and I'm like, babe, I can link you with the right people. We can. Like it's going to be worth a lot of hard work,
but like you can do it. And it's just it's been so frustrating to stand the sidelence and I'm like, Okay, I can't push for a dream that maybe he just doesn't want, but I think he does want. So it's like it's hard for me because I'm like, does he want it? Does he not want it? Like when should I stop pushing him? Because I want him to be so happy. I'm like, if you want to be a garbage, I don't care what you do.
I just want you to be happy, happy.
But it's like, but I also know, but I just also know, like what he's capable of and what he's walking away from when he has an opportunity, and he could have those opportunities. So it's frustrating as like a biastander to be like, why wouldn't you want to try? Right?
Well, not that's not only as a vicegander, but obviously, like that's the one who loves him, and you're like, come on, like, I can see so much more that could happen, but we want to make sure that it's what might want, right, And so that's obviously the struggle that you're having. But you know, I do think that, Mike. Sometimes maybe your thoughts do get in the way. And like there's these categories of thought that we all have,
you know, and everybody has them in different amounts. But you know, one type of thought though is discounting the positives. And I can definitely see that that might be part of your thinking that you know, even when you've achieved a lot, Yeah, but that's not really anything that I should have done more. And it's almost the same thing when you compare yourself to some of these other guys, like, well, but they've got like five, ten, fifteen years on me,
So maybe I'm just not there yet. Maybe if I even want to do that, I can't even do that for another ten years. And you know, while that's really awesome because it sounds like you're a very humble person who's like grateful for your opportunities, you can see how those thoughts can get in your own way, right, because, for example, like Sianna was saying, maybe there are people who are just like dying to get to know you
and put you on air. But if you don't go for it, and if you don't like say yes to the meeting, then that wouldn't happen until you say yes, right, And so that wouldn't be a place where you could slip up and self davotage, is it?
I mean, you guys just talking about it something that's coming up for me. Maybe it's I do have a fear around my concern is that my fears get validated? Right, yes? So so yeah, I say, I do put myself out there, and the reason that it doesn't work out is are for the exact reasons why I was hesitant in the first.
Place, totally right, Because you're afraid that that might like you know, validate or confirm like these deep fears that you have, and like what does that mean about you?
Then if you don't get it, and I think, again, this is like where our thoughts can get us in the loop, right, because what's happening in this case would be that if you don't get it, there could be a million reasons it could be, well, this is just not the time where we already had a person we were already talking to, so that spot was already held and that person said yes, and so we're not even entertaining any other offers, even though yours was a really
close second. You know, all these things could happen, but like your own interpretation though of that if it were to happen is oh see, I wasn't good enough and I shouldn't have even done it. And you know, I talk all the time with people I work with, my friends and my family and my clients. You know about the things that we tell ourselves when a situation happens. Like two of the same situations could happen to the two different people, and they could have completely different reactions
to it. Like, for example, if two separate people were laid off, one person could have a thought like, oh my gosh, like what am I going to do for money? What am I going to tell my family? This is still in arsa, and you can see how they was spiral. They would have negative emotions, they would probably go and isolate. But then the other persons who gets laid off, they're like, thank goodness, I didn't like this job that much in
the first place. So while it's stuck to not have a job, like this is my time to recent let me think about what I want to do next, and you can see how that person can have a totally different cascade of emotions and actions after that. They may even be looking up a little freefacation, you know, They may you know, make dinner plans with their friends. And so that's kind of the power of thoughts right as
human beings. I mean, it's like our greatest achievement and our greatest downfall that we have thoughts and we have language. I guess what leads us to be the top of the food chain. But it's also like what leads us to have suffering. And that's I think the interesting piece of the puzzle is that the thoughts are what leads us to oftentimes our suffering most definitely.
And let me just ask this too on the opposite side of this, like if you're in Jan's shoes, just in our situation, for instance, like what do you say to those people, the loved ones, the friends, the supporters of somebody that see this person that they love and care for self sabotaging themselves, Like at what point, like for Jenna for instance, or somebody else. How much should they push until they just realize there's no more. I can't push anymore, you know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah, I know it can be so frustrating. I think for a loved one to see, oh my gosh, I feel like you want this, but I'm not sure if you're just not saying it. And I know that you can even do more than what you're doing, but they just want you to be happy. I think coming from an external place, all you have to do is support and validate the person. But at the same time, that person it has to come from themselves. So you can say that and you can support them and validate them.
But sometimes it almost even gets like irritating, like okay, I understand, you know, like it makes you feel almost frustrated, even though they're coming from such a good place. And so I always tell people it's a really good thing as a loved one to remind the person that you love to refocus on their values or their value system as a way to get them out of that thinking. So values are very different from goals, the thing that you can check off the list, right, I can run
a marathon that can check it off. But values are things that you want your life to stand for. It's what you want to be remembered by when you die. I mean, it's like what people what you want people to know you for. So there are things that can't be checked off. They're usually things that you want to pursue for most of their life, things like integrity, or a sense of adventure, or community or spirituality. You know, these types of things are examples of common values.
And I feel like.
If everybody reshifted and focus on what their values are and then derive their goals from their values, not only will they find the goal pursue more fulfilling, but they might also be willing to take more chances and like tolerate the discomfort, whether it's just your negative self talk or like you know, like negative emotions because you're like wait, but it's in the service of something really important. So, for example, if one of your values was honesty, you're
not going to have an easy road. You know, sometimes when you're honest with people, they get mad at you and they stop being your friends. But it's in your heart you believe that honesty is really important to you, then you're more willing to like withstand the distress that might come from it. So I feel like that might be a really good way for loved ones to like help the people that they care about see like something different from the kind of thought patterns that they've been in.
Yeah that makes sense. Yeah, absolutely, What about the people like I do this and I know I do this. There are so many times and I'm like, I know I'm holding myself back. Yeah, I don't know how to fix it.
Yes, I think that that is really common that you have that acknowledgment like huh, I'm holding myself back, but like, how come I can't get out of it? I think that's Yeah, that's part of why I wrote this book because people keep saying that, like I'm so frustrated, like we need a plan, and so I think the plan is always to be able to like check out what thoughts you had before you had that feeling of like I'm holding myself back, Like once you recognize I know
I'm holding myself back, but why is it? Like what was your thinking before that? Like what was the thought that you had just before that? Was it? Well, I don't want people to criticize me. Well, I don't want to be like a note of know it all and show off. I feel like people might not be happy for my success, like what was the thought that preceded it.
It's only like when I'm like, when I'm acting or something a cintimes, I'll be like, why don't I just let myself? Like I know I'm holding west Like I know I am, like, I know that I'm getting in the way of my job, but I'm like, but I still can't let go. And I don't know if it's because I'm afraid to feel, if I'm afraid to do you.
Want to dive into that, because I would love to hear, like what you're how you're holding yourself back?
I mean because John always tells me, He's like, why do you use Like if you let go, you would book NonStop And I will start crying immediately because I'm like, I but I'm like, I know that, but I don't know how to let go. That's the thing. I don't know what that piece is. I don't know if it's fear. I don't know if I'm afraid of feeling. I don't
know if I'm afraid of like, I don't know. I'd like, I genuinely don't know, and I know it like every time I'm even like auditioning, I'm like, I know, I'm like holding myself back right now, and I'm like, why am I doing this to myself? But I can out physically let go, And the times that I have, I've done it maybe twice. Remember when I was on a tree hill and I baled afterwards because I was just like it was such a I just and I don't know why. I don't know. I literally don't.
Have the answer.
It's actually say, I'm glad that Mike asked you to dive into it more because it kind of gives some context to it, and I think we have to kind of shift back to that whole life acronym and see what is really getting in the way there. And as I'm hearing you talk about it, it almost feels a little bit like that the E it stands for excessive
needs for control. I mean, these are like the overachievers, you know, people who are like you know, they're I mean, they've gotten where they are because they were in control, like because that's what set them apart and it's what made them achieve as much as they did. But also that part of them can also hold themselves back, especially in like a creative in a creative environment, Like that's an actor. Like if you let it go, I mean,
like you're putting your whole self out there. You're so vulnerable, and it's like almost that sense of like if I let go of control, like what might happen? I mean, yes, something amazing could happen, or maybe not, what if it isn't good, or like what if somebody says something? And like maybe those types of things could could potentially get in the way of you doing something that you know you have the capacity for. I mean, does that sound like similar like something that you felt before?
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
So it's just kind of be purely fear based, right, just self sabotaging in general.
Well, it's a good question because I always look at self sabotage as a very universal phenomenon. Like when people are like, oh, I don't self sabotage, I'm like, I think everybody does sometimes, and then they'll find like maybe one area of their life where they're holding themselves back, like maybe it's not love, but it's their career, or maybe it's not their career, but it's their diet, you know, whatever it is. It's usually it's one or two areas.
Not everybody self sabotages everything, and in fact what nobody does, and so it is in some ways fear based because there is a very biological and evolutionary aspect of self sabotage in my opinion, You know, when we think about human being, like what's led to our survival is only two things. It's either attaining rewards or avoiding threat, and we kind of have to do both in balance, right, we have to keep going for the rewards, but we also have to avoid threats well. In our modern day
threat is not a saber tooth tiger. For most of us, we're lucky enough that it's not a physical threat. But it's more of like an emotional or psychological threat. It's like the fear of failure, or like the fear that you won't get to where you need to go, or the fear that you might be ridiculed, or you know what, if you try really hard and you still don't get to your goal, then what does that mean about you
as a person. And those types of things when they take over and when that switch happens where you prioritize fear reduction more than attaining rewards. That's when you self sabotage.
Interesting, what's like, I mean, obviously the first step would be to read your book, but in the immediate fix, Yes, what is.
The first Well, I think the first thing you know is again recognize that it's biological and universal, because if you're like ashamed about it or you think is just you are more likely not to tackle the problem. So like, just know that and accept that everybody does it and that you're not alone, so it's all good. And know that there's a fix. You know, know that there is a fix. I think that that's really the most important step. And then the second step is to look at your thoughts.
You know, what are the thoughts that precede a negative emotion or an action that you wish you didn't take or when you didn't realize your self sabotage, Like what was the thought that you had before that? And once you locate that thought, you'll probably start to see patterns to it that, like this thought has come up before. Then you can start to work with it. And so one thing that you can do after that is to
try to reshift your thinking. And so there's two ways to reshift your thinking, and I talk about it in my book, and one way to reshift it is to try to have a more balanced thought. Most of the signs are automatic thoughts are very like critical and that
they only look at one side of the picture. So there's a really quick technique that I have called yes but and it means that you acknowledge the happy part of this situation, but you also acknowledge this other thing that you know you're already making progress, that you're already doing something to improve. So for example, you know, somebody, you know, somebody that I was working with in my private practice, was saying that they don't think that they're
ever going to reach their fitness goals. And then you know they're like, I'm never going to reach my fitness goals. I'm like, well that is a very black and white thought, So like, how can we change is to recognize how you feel, but like also recognize what you're doing, So then you change the thought too. Yes, this is taking much longer than I thought it was, but I'm making
progress every day. Case in point, today I went for a run for thirty minutes before I came to the session, right, I mean, so it's almost like saying yes to the part that isn't so great right now, but also saying, but what is better? You know what has been shifting, and just recognizing that and that balanced thought will just
change the way that you feel. But sometimes it's just in such a crappy mood that you're not even going to want to do the yes butt You're like, I know the yes, but but I can do it and my heart's not in it, and that's fine. Sometimes you can change the thoughts, but you can change your relationship to it. So oftentimes we have a and we automatically think it's true because that's like the power of thoughts, Like you have it and you're like, oh my god,
it's happening, you know. So what I encourage people to do is to use a technique called labeling. And labeling just means that you're labeling the thought just as it is. It's all it is is a mental event. It's just an event. It's not saying that's true or not. So if you have a thought, for example, like oh my gosh,
I'm never going to find a better job. Instead of just leaving that thought as it is or even trying to change it, one alternate way to do this is just to put a little just tack a little sentence before that, and that sentence is I'm having the thought that, So then that becomes I'm having the thought that I'm never going to find a better job, and it does take the win out of the sales a little bit of that original thought like, oh, I'm just having a
thought that that's happening, doesn't mean that it is, you know, and even that small, little quick substitution can really help people.
Absolutely, And do you mentioned the whole the life acronym. And I have one last question for you. Is there any kind kind of test or evaluation that just anyone could take to be like, all right, what kind of sabotaging am I doing?
Yes, there is. So I actually have this up on my website and it's free to take. And my website is doctor judyho dot com and the actual website link for the quiz it's doctorg dot com and then it's backplast stop self Sabotage quiz and so definitely go and check it out. So quiz takes like five minutes and you can identify your primary life factor right there and then know how to move forward from.
There perfect well, Jane and I are definitely probably going to do that today.
Thank you.
And besides your website, where else can our listeners find you?
Well, you can find me on social media on Instagram and Twitter at doctor Judy host. So that's d R j U d y h O. And I just want to encourage everybody to start watching season twelve of The Doctors. I'm a co host for season twelve and we got really cool topics coming up. Yeah, yay.
I love the Doctor. I was on there when I was pregnant last year. I was They're so sweet.
Oh, I know, there's like a delight to work with. It's crazy. It's like you get exactly what you see. They're really amazing people.
Yeah, I love them. Well, congratulations and again, seriously, thank you so much. This has been eye opening.
It has been.
Oh it's been a real plague of talking to you guys, and I hope to keep in touch with you both.
Absolutely. Thank you, Doctor Judy, appreciate it.
Thank you.
Okay, talk to you I soon.
Bye, all right, bye.
Bye bye, Mark Easton, Jenna, Janna, Where are you guys holding back in your life? Where are you self sabotaging?
I've thought of this, I mean professionally, things have gone well for me, but there are all kinds of things I would have liked to have done in my life, and the fact that I speak of it that way is a form of self test sabotage.
Like I'm not you still have time.
I don't have to say, oh I could have been there, I could have done this. I could still go out and do those things. But I don't see myself doing that. Why not because I'm comfortable, you know what I'm saying, Like, like, I got my routine, I enjoy my job, I'm paid well, Like I feel like this is I feel like I'm a comfort level, like this is it. But then I think, oh, that'd be so cool to do that, But like, do you really jump from something that's working?
Like what? Like what would you want to know?
I've always wanted to do baseball. I've always wanted to do play by play baseball on the radio.
Oh, I thought you meant like professionally, I'm.
Like, Mark, I've always wanted to be a baseball announcer, and I think i'd be really good at it, but you'd be so wait let.
Me hear, Okay, Mark, this is your audition for a baseball announcing six.
Yeah, there you go go ahead. Let me hear swinging the ground all the short for the second for one off the first. It's a double play. That's what I meant.
Absolutely, it's perfect at it.
It's it's always going in my head. I'm watching a baseball game.
How you would how you would kind of come yeah.
So let's do it. I mean, why can't you do both?
I mean there's there's because I think that involves climbing a ladder like any other job. I have zero experience doing it. So I'd have to move to I don't know, Birmingham, Alabama or in West Virginia and start there and climb the minor league ladder.
And I'm not doing that. I got kids.
But you got Seacrest.
I got Seacrest.
Couldn't he help you out? Can he make a few calls? I mean you have to also, you know, use your context you have.
Yes, yes, that's true.
It's still different worlds.
I understand that, but it's.
Still I think that Will just have to have made a dream.
See that's what bothers me.
But but I think mark mark dream is very similar to what I, Yes, what I'd love to do sports casting A that'd be fantastic, but it's the same kind of deal you'd have to start out we're commentating the game. Guess what I'll begin in the garbage games? You know, d two games somewhere somewhere.
How would be you sound right?
But we have but we have two young kids. That means traveling during the fall to traveling every weekend.
If it's your dream and what you want to do, you can't You're not going to be Meryl Streep tomorrow, you know what I mean?
Would you be fine with Michael being gone Thursday, no, Sunday or Monday every single week.
If it's something if look at he what he said when he retired, He's like, I want to be a police officer. And I said, whatever you want to do that will make you happy? Sure what, I love him doing shift work. No, I mean it would really suck for the family. But at the same time, if it would make him happy, I'm not going to like be moping around the house if it's something that he truly wants to do. And he was like, so he went to the the orientation to be a cop, you.
Know, and he he ended up with the ultimate goal of going into the FBI.
But and that's something where you know, I was totally behind him because I just I want him so badly to do what he wants to do and love what he wants to do.
Well, look, those dreams are gone because I can't be a secret agent when all of our life is already out there and publicized, so I can't. I can't do that anyway.
I'm the reason why I.
Dreams you'd be a great color commentator.
I think you would be amazing at sports broadcasting. I think you'd be incredible. And there's so many things where it's like and I'm like, yeah, you're not going to go to you know, the top one right away. You're not going to be freaking right.
But I also know this. It isn't just messed up myself. It's also because I don't want to necessarily be away from the kids, like like Mark said, Thursday probably till Sunday morning every single week during the fall, like literally that that's how it have to be, because I would be on the road from Thursday to Sunday every single week during the fall and if summer beginning through the fall, because I would have to be doing these games all
over the country. Yeah. So it's like, do I do I personally want to be away from my family that much?
I mean, I get that. Yeah, I get that. And that is exactly what I was gonna say, is like I don't enjoy touring anymore because I'm away from you guys.
Right, and so we can bring the whole family on the bus, liked Jolie early on.
Yeah, And it takes the fun away from it. And then I'm like, I'm miserable. I have fun when I'm playing my show, but I'm miserable in my bus sitting there all day, you know, missing my family.
Right exactly.
So, Mike, it sounds like, I mean, it's something you would enjoy doing, but it sounds like the negatives outeigh the positives at this point.
Yes, unless he is on like Game day. Yeah, and that's what I call from Fox Sports and the Yeah, which again.
Come sit with Howie Long and the Terry Bradshaw and the rest of the crew. Sure, I guess I can do that.
I heard Torri it would be good.
I mean, that's the thing is she'd be so good here. You're funny, You've got a good voice.
You know, And I get that he's not, you know, I mean the guys that I'm sure Andrew luck is going to be the next dude sitting.
There, but he doesn't have the person that I'm just.
Saying, like, those guys will get that opportunity first. The same time.
Walked straight off the field into a booth. Tony Romo struck straight off the field.
Somehow to Seacrest. So you've got Seacrest to but we got Seacrest. Oh lord.
I have some emails if you'd like, or we have one thing we want to bring up though.
We put time out before that.
Though.
We are going on a wine down tour, which we're very excited about, and you can get your tickets Jana Cramer dot com. We're going to Chicago, Michigan, Louisville, filled Up, Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, Boston. Are we going to Boston and that was last year?
I don't know.
Just go on Jana Cremer dot com. We're coming to you see you. We're so excited.
The brewery.
Oh yeah, we're coming there on Saturday. Stry I'm so.
Excited Irwindale Brewery.
I'm so pumped about that. I'm so excited to see you. I know, I'm excited to see you too. I texted Toy yesterday and I was I'm so excited to see you. She's like, I'm I'm hosting. I have my wine glass, I'm ready to roll. I did. I was super pumped, and I'm super pumped.
It's gonna be so much fun. We're gonna have a blast.
It's gonna be fun. It's gonna be so much fun.
Real quick. Yeah, So we promised what do we promise the listeners?
The listeners?
Oh yeah, so we mentioned to the listeners that we were going to sit that you forgot it. I've been waiting.
It's called the five minute breakdown, okay, of.
A new segment that we're going to be doing every week. Yeah, we have homework. Every week is the five minute breakdown of the One Tree Hill episode that we just watched.
So I've we have never I've never seen One Tree Hill. Michael's never seen One Tree Hill. And from being on the show for three years, I feel quite bad that I've never even watched an episode the.
Best Have any of you watched it? Tory Easton, No Business? Love it?
Okay, So we're yesterday, Okay, sorry.
So we started the first episode okay, and I don't remember the actors' names. I know Chad Michael Murray, but then the other one that plays Nathan Scott, Nathan Scott, Lucas Scott, Nathan Scott.
So by the way that the show starts, the show starts and they show Nathan Scott and Lucas Scott, and then once you realize their brothers, Janna goes, wait, their brothers.
Had no idea that they were brothers. Lying, swear you're lying. No, I swear the whole storyline. But I told you I knew nothing about the show. When I got on the show, I knew nothing, And I was like, they're brothers, Like he would wipe out the back of his jersey because their both names Scott, Well, we don't know.
So the whole team staring him down, like what up?
Wow?
So we've got three four more minutes left this talk. So I was very shocked about that. Also, I'm when he walks into the to the auditorium. Do you think that James Lafferty's character was his name Nathan? Do you think that Nathan called him? You know what I mean?
No, I don't think no, why not? I think because Lucas realized he's a Baller.
It's just so weird because I know, like, I'm like Hailey, why is Hailey, like, like what he shouldn't be dating that other Peyton girl, Like he's married to Haley. It's very interesting married. Sorry, no, it's a roller coaster to ride. It's okay, So I'm And then what else happened in the first episode? Moira Kelly who by the way Cutting Edge she was played my mom and the Christmas Christmas movie. I was just in had no idea that she was the everyone always had Karen, so I was like Karen,
But now I know who Karen is. Karen's his mom.
Yeah, it starts the whole show.
It's fascinating.
What I think is fascinating to is when TV shows do like sports games. I thought it was good, though I was I was actually somewhat impressed because I was like, usually it's a lot worse than that. Yeah, there's genuine
like athleticism on the court. It looked like but usually because like the production is a lot smaller production budget everything like that for like a TV show where it just looks like a joke, like even from like Fresh Prince of bel Air Days where when Will Smith's playing basketball. The court, the full size court is the size of like half of an actual basketball court, so it takes like one step. He's already on the other side of
the court. Like it was ridiculous. It was like five year olds played on it.
But when they played the game against each other, I didn't know who was going to win. They won on one game, they won a one game.
I truly I can'tnot have Lucas win.
I don't know, because it was almost like maybe he was gonna let him win because.
That's my favorite character right now. After season one, episode one, Lucas Scott is my favorite character.
Don't tell Sophia on the show ninety seconds for mad ninety seconds. I don't know. She came on after the next I think she's in the next episode because they brought her and she originally wasn't in the pilot, but then they wanted another female to come in and bruce stuff up, and she brewed it up.
Got it.
We need to have her on eventually. I'd love to have her on.
Yeah.
So so that was our five minute one to Tree Hill wrap up.
There are one hundred and eighty seven episodes that you really.
Committing to watch it all Jane said last night. She was like, because these episodes going.
Into it, thought, dude, twenty two episodes.
I thought the episodes were like thirty minutes. She's like, no, there is an hour show, so they're like forty five minutes. There's twenty something episodes in each season. There's nine seasons. I'm like, good god, we're not watching anything for like the next three months.
We just have to commit to more than that.
Enjoy.
Let us know. If you guys like this, let us know it. Whine down the deal. Here's the deal, though, we can stop. It's fine.
I was.
We were genuinely just doing this for you guys. So if you guys don't like us a recapping the five minutes, we can take it out. Just give us an email. Let us know.
Maybe we go with three minutes.
I like three, three is healthy, Three is good, all right. Mark's like, let's just cut it.
No, not yet, I'm not there yet. I like it so far. How many seasons until we get to you?
We've got six years, I know, but it's.
Like, we need the backstory now to.
Actually season freaking seven.
You know what I do love. I'm not sure about One Tree Hill yet, not so on it yet. But what I do love are.
Me and oh you are You're my favorites with me.
And for me, like three.
Years ago, time out, it was your sister.
It was my sister.
First.
Your sister goes, hey, I know this is kind of weird, but like I got you friend likes underwear, so I'm gonna get you underwear. I know it's weird for a sister to get brother underwear. And since then, you have every shade every I got the ones.
With roses on it, I got the ones with like the kiss lips on it. I got polka dot, I got blue.
Yeah, like everything. And they also have me undies for girls too. I've got the the like sweat sweat.
I was gonna say. And we got the pajama pants yeah, which are amazing.
You can finish it.
Oh thanks, Sonny.
Welcome.
So if you ever thought about getting in some new underwear, I'm telling you try me Undis. I love them. Jana actually even steals mine to wear at night. You love to wear those at night, and do we like to.
Wear I'm I've been a subscriber since like twenty eleven. I was an early adopter. Wow, I'm wearing them right now.
I had a boy but good thing about them. They are super soft, like we said, from sustainable Fabric, and they're available in every size from extra small to UH four xl oh what up though? Yeah, and right now, they have a great offer for our listeners. For any first time purchasers, you get fifteen percent off and free shipping. This is a no brainer, especially because they have one hundred percent satisfaction guarantee and trust at least Easton and
I when we say they are amazing. To get your fifteen percent off your first pay, free shipping and one hundred percent satisfaction guarantee, go to me undies dot com slash wind down. That's me undies dot com slash wine.
Down by Hey Mark, we got any emails.
Shanne wants to thank you. She says, thank you for the advice you gave me on the Mommy Issues episode here in my email out loud gave me so much clarity and on top of the fact that you're both unbiased bystanders, I was reminded of the feelings of hurt and disrespect from him. I'm standing up for myself, I'm remembering who I am, and I'm walking the hell away from the Toxic Relations Girl.
Yes Queen Yes also shout out to our nurse today because she listens to wind down. She's like, I love you, guys.
Jason's nurse said the pediatrician. She's fantastic. She's awesome, TI because she gave me a shot.
That's ab Katie's twenty five. He's lived with a guy for two and a half years. They have two dogs. They lived together, she says, after we essentially planned our life together. He broke it off. He told me I was a hard person to love. That's a phrase I hear every day of my life. This past year, I've made some bad decisions with guys, my eating, my overall mood. Do you have any advice how to get out of this funk? Oh, Katie, I feel like.
This is very similar to the email we did last time, went hard to Love. I said, maybe it's not about like the guy kept telling her she's hard to love, and I'm like, well, actually that's something where I think the guy has his own personal issues. But with this and I don't know, it's hard to get out of funk. You're kind of in a funk me, haven't you.
No?
I was, I'm good now I'm Gucci.
So what did you to get out of it?
Yeah? Honestly, for me, he was reading reading.
Yeah, did you read that book?
Yeah, I've been reading more of that book really. Yeah. Wow. And I have my like touchstone self meditation for men like daily Morning. I read those like every morning kind of gives you like a purpose for the day. Oh yeah. So honestly, that's something I've been doing more of and I think it's really helped me.
Oh wow, babe, because.
A few weeks ago, I was really in a funk. Mm hmm. You know, I shared in the podcast whatever a week or so ago how we were in a funk. But since we've since been way out of that. And yeah, for me personally, it took for us to get out of funk. It also took me to get out of a funk and out of my own head and is doing something like taking contrary action? You know me, I'm not a huge reader, never have been, but I have
a lot of books that I want to read. It's just like my eighty D kicks in and I can't just sit there and read.
Is it the book that had to be adult?
Uh?
Huh?
Wow?
Had to be an adult? In a relationship.
I love it. I'm so proud of you.
Thank you.
So I think getting out of it. So maybe try meditating, getting to get your funk every day?
Yeah, do something, do something. The whole point is do something different that's healthy that you don't normally do. So if you don't normally work out, go work out. If you don't normally read, go read. If you never really just go for a walk, go for a walk.
You know what I learned about Mike guys, he doesn't like to be encouraged when he works out.
Go on the same way. I don't like that either.
I was like, we worked out the other day and I was like, come on, babe, you got this, Come on, you got it? Only two more like come on, get up. He's like stop and I was like ooh.
And then I told Jana story where every off season in the NFL there's always like local college strength coach interns or guys that are doing, you know, getting credits for college classes that are in the strength program, and they would come in trying to you know, it's the first time they're nervous in an NFL facility and trying to kind of prove themselves. So they get all loud and try to pump everybody up, and I've had a
mf a lot of them because I hate that. So they all come in young's let's go, you could do it. And I've gotten pretty mean with some of those young kids from time to time because.
If you hate it, what would you like me to do?
Babe?
Like when we're stretching, he's like, don't say anything kindly because I love working out with him. So I was so excited when he came out to work out with me and my trainer, and then I was just like, okay, all right.
Next day, Mairl Madison says, my boyfriend and I've been together for three years and we're moving in together in a few months. He's twenty seven and twenty six. However, he doesn't believe in anxiety. I'm working on it, but I think part of it is just my personality and I don't know if it'll ever be fully fixed. How do I deal with your How do you deal with your anxious thoughts?
How could I even forget about this topic?
Let's answer that question.
No no, no, no, no.
No, We're going to answer it, and okay, fine, they don't understand it. Until they've had it and they think it's all in their head. And this is the best example I will give you right now. Michael had an anxiety attack. You guys, Oh I did, Yes, you did. We were we were in fabrication. No, it's not you guys. We were in New Orleans and we were sitting down. And this is about the second or third time this has happened recently. What just let me finish my story.
We're sitting down for our date night, like you know, we let the nanny. We took the kids to New Orleans when I was filming. We decided to have a date night. We go to this date night and I can just tell he's getting pale, he's getting clammy. You know. He had some bread, took a little sip, a little teeny weeny sip of his Manhattan on the rocks with bullet or no, I didn't have bullet that night anyways, and he started to like look down, and I was like, are you good. He's like, yeah, I just I don't
feel good. And I was like okay. And then he said, I think I think I need to go outside and just get some fresh air. And I was like all right. And so he comes back in. I said, babe, you know we can leave if you want to leave. Are you okay? I please know that it's okay. If you don't feel good, we can go right now. We can take the food to go. It's okay. And I said, can you just tell me your symptoms? And he goes,
my heart's racing, I'm hot. I I'm like I was going to throw up, you know, I feel like I need some fresh air. My heart's like yeah, like pounding, and I just feel like and I go, babe, that's an anxiety attack. Nope, and he will refuse to admit that was an anxiety attack. And he goes, but it just came out nowhere. I go, babe, this is what you don't understand. Mine comes out of nowhere. We can be sitting here on a date night and I can just but that's the thing.
I've never had that happen to me before.
But there was something when we were talking about something too that somehow subconsciously triggered that, and he had an anxiety attack. And I was like, he goes, well, how do you know? I was like, hello, I'm like the epicenter of anxiety. I know what this is. And I was like, everything you just told me is a symptom of anxiety. Yeah, you're not catch you're not trying to catch your breath. And but if that is, that's not
There's different types of anxiety attacks. And that anxiety attack that you just had was exactly the one that I had when I was with my girlfriends at dinner and I was and I was having a great day nor with my friends, and all of a sudden, I was like, oh God, I don't feel good. I feel I'm gonna
throw up. My my hands are sweating. You know. I'm sweating now, you know, and I need to go outside and get some fresh air to be able to breathe, like, and he's just he refuses to amiss, it's not coincidental's He's like, I'm like refusing to admit that he had an anxiety attack.
Why Linelike, he said, it's so dead set against that.
I don't because he thinks he can control an anxiety attack because.
I've never had. Well, here's the thing too, and I've told Jane this recently over the last several months. I know my body very well. My body was my business for years, so I'm very in tune with how my body feels on what's going on with it. And for the last few months, I've just felt out of whack, like I'm gonna go to our local physician, get a physical, just get my levels checked. I just feel like something
is off. Something just has to be off. There's no way I should be as fatigued or feel as sick as I do something times or or or whatever it is.
And he's even on depression medicine.
Yeah, I mom on, I take an antidepressant. I'm on adderall, Like, there's no reason I should be as fatigue. You're tired as I am some days when I take Adderall, and there's no way I should be. So it's just there's just something's off, And so I attribute it to that. I'm like, whatever is.
Going on in my boy, cause that anxiety, that's the thing. That's something. Whatever is going on with you cause that anxiety right.
So so well, regardless of whether that moment was an anxiety attack or not, I don't I don't consider it as like me having anxiety. I just think whatever's going on my body is just reallyffing me up right.
Now, and which caused you to have an anxiety? Attack that wasn't an episode of an anxiety attack, and he I think he refuses to admit it because he thinks that he's more powerful over and I think that's what maybe to go back to Madison's email, is we it's hard to like people think you can control it.
Well guys in general, right right, Yeah, we talked about our mentality. So I would say, from a god's perspective, Madison, if you talk to him, where coming from a place like if if Jenef you and I if it was from the at the beginning again and you told me you had anxiety and you came from a place of instead of maybe in the moment that she's having an anxiety attack, she stays ahead of it and just get And Madison goes to her boyfriend's like, look, I know
you don't understand this. I don't understand this. This is what happens to me sometimes, and I'm it sucks. I'm really sorry, But would help What would help me is if I had your support and empathy during situations like this and like.
Knowing that not make me feel crazy, right, not make.
Me feel crazy, and like maybe having your support will help them subside or whatever because you know you and I early on, I was definitely like, what the hell
is going on? Like just stop basically, but anyway, So if she's able to kind of stay ahead of it and just and just bring him in, like be vulnerable when it's not going on in that situation, in that in that moment, I think as a man, I would be able to receive that a little bit better and it would make me feel like I can I can be like a support for you, you know what I mean?
Or night in shining, right.
I can be your your hero a little bit.
That's that's good advice because she needs to tell him exactly what she needs from him in that situation when it's not going on. That's something I had to learn and Mike you had to learn. So I think if you guys are really going to move in together after these three years, he's going to have to come around on that and and and be empathetic and understand what you need from him.
Yeah, and we and as guys, we love to be needed, right Mark, So it's like knowing that our woman needs.
Us and you hate to feel helpless, which in anxiety, you feel helpless because you don't know how to help and that makes us defensive.
Yes, absolutely, Yes, we have one more.
Yeah, we got a show, guys.
I think great show.
I think we got a show guys. That was really fun, good, good topics, great topics. I'm excited to see everyone in California this weekend at the brief Ast. It's going to be a good time, me and my belie, the Brewery, so cal contrary, the Brewery will see you there. And if you I want to see us live anywhere else, go to Janacramer dot com and we'll wind down again next week.
Bye by
M HM.