One Night in Perez

to say it. I'm excited to bring the kids and everything. So it's if they let the kids come, I hope. So I don't know, but we have a treat. We do have a treat and I'm trying to pull it up right now because i want to just like be one thousand percent on it and I'm not on it this morning because okay here, So I think it was what it was the other day. Um, you were kind of having like your own um, your own time, and I was doing my thing and I was just a

rare rarely go on Twitter, like rarely rarely. Um, but I follow pres Hilton and I saw this thing from him. So basically something that we talked about on one of these podcasts about I think it was when we were talking with Lisa Turkerist and what we were saying, you know, I trust you today and then basically just saying so the headline was Jane Kramer still doesn't fully trust husband Mike Cousin after cheating scandal, and then his comment was

just get divorced already. So I was just like, you know, feeling a little spicy on a little froggy, and I was like, no, So I re quoted it back and said, when you don't know the ins and out about addiction in the work we continue to do, you shouldn't speak on it. We are open because we're helping people do the work to become stronger like we have. So no, thanks, not going to divorce a good man and back. And then he said, but how can you stay in your

relationship when you don't trust him? Which I get it, it's a very valid but I never said I don't trust you. I just said I trust you today, and which kind of just got me thinking a little bit more. And then I kind of went on a little Twitter rant. I went a little like crazy Twitter ran and I was just like, apparently everyone has a picture perfect relationship s mh. And then I was just like scratching my head. And then it was like, you know it shaking your head? Okay,

well either scratching. I think it's scratching. Is it? Is it shaking? Okay? I guess I'm the only person. I thought I was scratching by it. Yeah, they are. They're all affirming you in the comments, and Eastern just said, wow, so that's okay. Well I thought it was scratching because you know, it's like home than scratching FML forget my lunch, you know me, I always scratching my head like home, like come on a little bit, this is amazing. I guess not. Well that's fantastic. Fl forgot my lunch, I

forgot my launch FML. Okay. Well anyways, so I was scratching my head, I put us MH. And then I was like, you know what, why don't you just say it to our faces? You know, if you want to tell us a good divorce, let's come on a podcast and talk because and then he basically said to in another comment, he said, um, he said basically that we do it for attention and headlines, and that one really bothered me. I didn't say anything to him, though he

was it's the podcast that fuels all these headlines. They were feel intimate details and thoughts for listenership and attention. Interesting. So I kind of want to have a conversation about that because I wouldn't. I don't. We don't do this, like, it's not like we want. Well, here's here's what I want, because it's not for attention. The only attention that I would say i'd want is for someone to say they're working on their marriage. How awesome is that? But here's

the deal. Who would click on that? Right? That's not clickbait. That's why we don't write the tabloid headings. Yeah, but they just pick the like she still doesn't trust them. Right if we were to write the tabloy headings back that, Wow, they're fighting for their marriage. It's going great, Like that's what we were, right. Yeah, Well but I don't know. I just thought it'd be interesting to bring him on and to talk about kind of clickbait stuff and you know,

get because he thinks we're hot messes. So I think it's just something where we can I don't want to sell ourselves, but I also wanna, you know, get to know us before you write about Let's okay, welcome for a Silton. Hello, Hello Perez, Hello, how are you? I am very happy. It's a good day today because it's my son's birthday. He's eight, and also yesterday was their

first day back at school in eleven months. So that's a good day for you, right, I had my three kids at home for eleven months, and what are the ages for the kids? Well, my son just turned eight today, and my middle child she's almost six, and my youngest is three. And I just know that they missed their friends, They missed getting out of the house. Uh. They don't focus as while at home to get so easily distracted.

And you know, eventually they'll catch up with learning. But it's not just the learning and academics is everything else, The socializing with friends safely that they're now doing. Um, it's everything, and I'm just so relieved. I feel bad though, because even some schools in Los Angeles have not opened yet. Mine is one of the later ones, and there's still a lot more that haven't opened yet. Uh. Yeah, we have so our kids are We have a five year old Jolie, and then we have a two year old Jason.

They go to half days to preschool. But even so, I started to feel guilty because child the preschools are pretty much open in Nashville. So but so I felt a little guilty. But at the same time, I'm like, no, I need those We need those two days to like have some sanity and get work done and and and

live our life too. Yeah, like you're saying, pereas, the kids need those days, they need those that you know, familiarity with a routine and getting to no kids and and playing with other kids other than just mom and dad all the time. Make the most of it. But that is not why we have you on here. Yeah, let's get to it, so correct me if I'm wrong.

But in many ways, your podcast is kind of like a reality TV show, right, Yeah, in theory, it kind of is because it is a look into our daily lives where we don't really hold back on our experiences with each other and with things that we do with in our life. So yeah, that's safe to say. Okay, So when you open yourselves up like this, it's I think an invitation for people to listen and participate and have opinions. So you know I have opinions, but I'll park my opinions for a side and say this and

once again correct me if I'm wrong. I would guess if all of a sudden some billionaire said, you know, I listened to your podcast and I love what you guys do, and I want you to just not have to do it if you don't want to, I'm gonna give you a hundred million dollars. Go with me. If all of a sudden you've got a hundred million dollars offered to you, would you continue doing your podcast as it is now? Yes, he doesn't believe you. Why because

here's the thing. It's and we've gotten a comment before like that you have said about attention or money or whatever from us sharing our story. And for us, we're like, if that's the case, where's the money, because we ain't seeing it. Well. I mean, podcast is doing good, right, but it's not our it's not our bread and butter. It's not what keeps the roof of our head right. As much as it annoying as it is at times and hurt flat times for people to say maybe negative comments,

I mean we're used to it. Whatever it's happens that one person or those couple of people that come to us. Actually it's not a couple, it's a lot that come to us and say, y'all being so open has really helped my marriage, has really helped my relationship, or is allowed me to be more honest with my spouse or my partner those moments or those moments when we did our live shows and we'd have couples crying to us being like, you know, what you guys are doing are helping,

is helping our relationship. That's intangible, that's priceless. You can't put a you know, uh, you can't put you can't monetize that. You know, it's just something that means so much to us. And because we've been able to have a platform to receive that. So the flip side to that question is has doing the podcast helped or hurt your relationship? It's a good question. So I will say in the very beginning, it was the podcast was huge.

It was because you know, we were still in the healing process and we were doing the and he didn't want to talk about it, like I had written a book before, you know, we did a book together, and I wanted to talk about my abusive relationship that I was in. I wanted to talk about, you know, finding out about the affairs and and he was like, I don't want you to and he he ripped it up, ripped up all the pages and was just like, you are not putting this out. And I'm like, Michael, here's

what you don't understand. I was like, people are going to write that you cheated about me in every single article that comes out there. It's always going to be there. The headline will always say, well, he, you know, cheated on her, and that's what it's gonna be. I was like, I want to change the narrative. I want to say, look at how they've you know, grown and they're working together. But also because when he cheated on me and he went to rehab, I had nothing. I had no books

to read that I could relate to. I had nothing. I was like, I need to know that I am not the only person out there that has that feels completely alone, devastated and still wants to stay with him because I love them like that. I still I want hope, somebody please give me some hope that I feel like I can stay with this man. Even though I freaking hate him, but I still love them? How many years ago was that now? Five and a half years ago? Five years ago, five years ago that you went that

was discovery? So I saw recently that you said you still don't trust him five years later. Maybe I heard that out of context, Um, is there some trust, a little trust, no trust? Because I was just thinking, like, God, if five years later there's still no trust, or there is, you don't trust him five years later, get divorced, and I still stand behind that statement, Like I couldn't. I feel like I would be walking on eggshells, like hiring

private detectives, and would that make me happy? Like I'd rather be alone and be single and coparent healthily as friends wish that former partner of my nothing but the best, And I'm all for rebuilding trust. But when I heard five years later, are you still don't trust him? Like my head explode. Okay, So here's the thing for that. I'm one thousand percent on the same page with you.

I agree with you on that. When I've talked to my therapist about trust, and that's been one of the hardest things for me too, because I do I do trust you. I do trust my husband. The problem is is that because he is an addict, he can never say that he'll never do something again. Now, Perez, if something happens again, I'm I'm out, Like there's only so much that I can personally handle. And he knows that.

And and the thing is too it hasn't been like a completely clean I haven't had a clean, you know, slate from five years ago. I've done things along the way physically, not physically, but I've done things to still um give her reasons not to trust me along the along the timeline of five years. So it's not like ever since five years ago, I haven't told one line. My behavior has been completely different, Like I've never done

anything to you know, mess anything up. It's we've I've had my bumps, you know, I've had my bumps and recovery, I've had my bumps or whatever. Yes, I've never acted out outside of our relationships, you know, since all that happened. But you know, there's still a reason why it's that way.

And it's hard because I have times like you're saying, Perez, where I'm like, you know, in my head, I want to be like it was five years ago, But then I have to remind myself, well, I've done things to cause mistrust, you know, along the road, and I think what I'll say to to that is, you know, there was a time after our all that stuff where I told my therapist, I go, all I do is just look at his phone and I hate it and I don't want to do it and I don't want to

live my life like this. And then she goes, then stop stop doing those things, and you're just going to have to let it go. And it's on him, you know, and you have to start trusting him. So that's why I say, And what was a little out of context with that uh An interview was I said, I do trust him today because I see he's showing up. He's in recovery work, he's doing, you know, he's he's showing up today as a husband, as a man, and in recovery. Tomorrow. I pray to God he does, but I can't control

his recovery. I'm just gonna wake up tomorrow and I'm going to trust him until he basically, you know, it's something would happen. So Janet, you've been you've been speaking to your therapist. I would assume now for a while. I'm curious, since you know your podcast is all about being open. You mentioned a few moments ago that prior to being with Michael, you were in an abusive relationship. Did that one affect your desire to stay in this one, which from the outside might not seem like the most

healthy for you. Is that something that you've talked about with your therapists we have. Well, here here's a little tidbit too. I actually met him at the coffee being on Sunset and Fairfax, which was the same one that you would sit at, because I would go to that Sunset and acts coffee bean every day for like six years, because I was living on that side of the hill. And I just remember too, like you were just in your computer, like chilling at the you know. And I

remember my friend Diana was like, that's Press Hilton. He's a you know, and I was like, that's Perez Hilton. But I ended up I met um. I met my abuser at that coffee bean, and you know, we've done a lot of work around that. I thought you met your therapist. I was smiling. Oh my god, I would

not have been smiling if that's where you. If I knew you met your abuser there like um, no, no, so I met I met him there, And I will say it was I've done a lot of work with my therapist around that, and honestly, I will say the first reason that I stayed and this is not the reason to stay at all, but it was for my daughter. Um I had a five month old at the time. And and here's the crazy thing was when he was in a rehab As much as I hated him, I still wanted to I wanted to read his letters. I

wanted to see what he had to say. And I will never advocate for staying in a bad relationship. If he was continuing to act out physically and breaking boundaries and lying to seven, I am the first person to say, get out, you don't like you deserve better than that. If he were to ever hit me. I will never stay in a relationship where I'm physically, mentally, verbally abused. I just can't stand for that. And so I have

stayed a lot, first and foremost for my kids. But I also am at the point now where I know my worth, I know what I deserve, and you know I won't stand for anything else. But there was also that love there that I you know, I know, I knew he wanted to be a better man, and he just just took him a little while to get there. So I'm curious because you're so open, and I love that. I'm very open to you could ask me anything. I love talking to very open people because not often you

get that. So, you know, you talk about your relationship up a lot on the podcast. I don't even listen to my own podcast, Okay, so don't take it personal. I listened to no podcast and I have one UM, what is Michael's relationship with porn? Is it something that you allow? Is that like a trigger for him? Is it not allowed? I'm curious. So for me, that's that's not in my Uh yeah, that's or that's in my circle.

So that's something that I stay away from. UM now with the program on part of with essay, it's you know, it's one of those things. It's kind of a user's choice. It is up to certain people if that's a behavior that they talk about with their sponsor, with their therapist, if it's something that they need to watch out for. For me, it is a trigger button for me. It is an escalator. It is something that I used to escape reality. It's something that I used to mask feelings

and emotions that I I didn't know how to express. So for me, it's a non negotiable. It's out of my life, it's out of our relation and ship, and that's what we decided. That's what I decided. Um, you know. But we're not against other people using it. We're you know, it's just our story and that's the stuff that we're staying away from. But we understand that people use it and we don't care if other people bring it into

their relationship. It's just not part of not a part of ours, because it's something where if you did, it's the addict that could potentially set it to be like, Okay, well this was fun, but now I want to take the next step. And now because it's a medicator for me, you know, it's it's it's just like a drug. It's just like anything else. It was my medicator. Well it's a medicator for me too, But I don't really it

doesn't make me want to do more. I'm just grateful actually, because I'm like, oh, I get to take care of business in ten minutes or less. I'm done, and that's it. Because you know, I have not been intimate with anybody

in five years. Five years For gay men, that's like dog gears, like I haven't been intimate with somebody in like thirty years or forty years, because gay men are the most from miscuous of anybody, and and and wonderfully so, because I was living in New York City for a period of time there and it was just so much easier than you know, there's so many more gay men there, so there's a volume, and there's also more gay men that shared similar interests, like all of the theater actors

and people that work in fashion, and it was just easier to be spontaneous and hey, you want to meet for a drink or you want to hook up or whatever it is. And then I moved back to Los Angeles and the one dating site that I was using in New York it worked in New York. I wasn't getting results here. I don't even care, I'll share, I'm

not getting paid. I don't even use it anymore. It was okay Cupid, and I liked Okay Cupid because they have a website and I don't want I I think, I don't even think I am an addict as well, in different ways, like I'm addicted to food, I'm addicted.

I'm addicted to work, like seriously addicted to work. And I talked about that with my therapist, and I've been setting boundaries from myself and really forcing myself to get more sleep, you know, the coffee being years and for actually, up until last year, I would only get about five hours of sleep at night, not much. So I moved back to l A and okay, Cupid wasn't working for me here and I just didn't. I don't, I don't know.

I'm fine masturbating and I kept saying, well, it'll happen when it happens, and it just hasn't happened for five years. And I'm fine, you know, I've got three kids and I'm busy, and it is what it is. But who knows. Maybe if I it's another couple of years, I might even hire an escort. I'm not against that gay men do that. I'm not quite there yet. I'm not I'm

not against it, but I'm not quite there yet. Um. But maybe I don't know, or maybe somebody will listen and be like, well, I'll just put Perez out of his misery and slide into his d M S and and and you know, help him out. I think also I want to comment to some of your your your your fans and supporters who were saying that, you know, I shouldn't even have an opinion on relationships because I'm not in a relationship and I haven't been in a while.

But I will just say to those people, I think one of the reasons why I'm single and never chose to get married to any of the men that I dated for a long period of time was because my parents. They're like one of those storybook romances. They never once fought. Ever, my dad died when I was fourteen, and um, they never fought. But not only that, like and this also hurts a little bit because I've spoken about this with

my therapist. My parents didn't even didn't just love each other, they worshiped each other, like my mom worshiped my dad, and my dad worshiped my mom. And if I were to tell my mom right now, I'm we can go back in time to and your son dies or your husband dies. I'm pretty sure my mom would have chosen my dad me dying over my father. I'm pretty sure. No, I'm certain of that, Yes, yes, she loved my dad more than me. But you know, I believe in I believe in true love. But i'm but I'm also aware

that it's not going to be perfect. Like I may not have that perfect relationship that my parents had. I think I have a healthy relationships, healthy understanding of relationships. My thoughts on relationships is that it's a lot like your body and your health. We all know what it takes to be a healthy person. It requires healthy eating consistently and being active consistently. And even though we all know that, it's still so hard for so many of us to be healthy. But we know what it takes,

but it's still hard. And I say this as a fatty. I'm a fatty. Even though right now I may not look fatty, I still got the brain of a fat person and the genes of a fat person, So you know, I think that way. But I put in the work on my body and I'm willing to put into work

in a relationship as well. And I'm excited to not just be the one that does all the talking, and I'm excited to compromise and where do you want to go on vacation and all of those things, Well, I will say, Perez that you know, for being someone who does what you do and talks about other people in the spotlight or other you know, things that people go through.

I do appreciate and respect that you're as open as you are, right because other people are you know, shut the door when it comes to themselves and just want to point to figure out other people. So I do respect that about you, and I appreciate about you that you're willing to answer the same questions that you ask, which is well, I go back also to what I

asked at the beginning. I want I want an answer from Jana, because I don't think she said that if I give you a hundred million, would you keep up the podcast? Is it? Can I still keep the hundred million and do the podcast? Or do I have to quit? You can still keep the podcast but keep it as

it is talking about the minutia of your relationships. I would I would probably even I mean, and we we already go like real there, I'd probably even be like, let's get our let's do a couple's therapy with our therapists, because at that point I'm like, I don't care who says anything. I got more money than anything like because because for me, it is about just helping people and

knowing that I am not alone in this struggle. Because you know, we did have a few fun because we're in we just got out of quarantine, but because I'm here filming a movie, and you know, we were fighting about just stupid stuff that most relationships fight about. And you know, I was, I was even looking at Valentine's Day post and I'm like, like, I'm mad at you right now. I don't want to post this like I love you so much. I do, but I'm mad at

you at the moment. And so we posted a silly thing of like hey, if anyone else spot today like you're not alone, and there's so many people that were like blowing us up that we're like, oh my gosh, thank you because I was feeling like annoyed and now you know, now we're better. But I saw your post and I'm like, okay, so again I'm helping people not feel alone. And then it's okay that there isn't a perfect relationship because I'm not perfect. Even though I do

so much therapy. We do so much therapy, and even with our book, like we don't do it perfectly. But we're better because of the work that we've done, and this is a better relationship than when I walked down the aisle to you. I love that, and I guess the good thing is you know you're both consenting adults. I am a very open person, but I've gotten in trouble with my family because of that a bit um and I justified it at the time by saying, well,

this is my truth. And I was really hurt by this, and I'm gonna just a dress it publicly because I have a podcast and because I have my YouTube channels and all of that. So one example which I don't talk about my sister anymore because it really hurt her,

but I was really hurt too. So my sister got married two years ago, and like I mentioned a few moments ago, my dad passed away when I was thirteen or fourteen, I don't remember, a long time ago, twenty five plus years ago, and my mom walked my sister down the aisle. Absolutely absolutely great. I expected that and wanted that, but my sister didn't have me participate in any way other than just walking down the aisle with

my youngest child. I thought, oh, maybe she'd ask me to give a quick little toast or maybe she'd ask me to have a little dance with her or something. And she did nothing. And I gave her ten thousand dollars to help pay for the wedding. Not a ton of money, but something sizeable, Like, you know, I had kids of my own. If it was like, if she would have gotten married before I had children, I probably would have paid for the whole thing. But now that

I got kids, you know, here's ten thousand. That's something. And yeah, and so I made like a big thing about it, like I was still hurt by my sister, and and then that really hurt her. And now I've realized, you know what, maybe I shouldn't broadcast everything with people in my life that aren't comfortable with that, even if I'm comfortable broadcasting everything in my own life. Yeah, yeah, I mean that's something we deal with, and that's been a hot button for me, Like I stay away from

details with family or parents because of that. Right, it's it's the life that we chose. Well actually, even we didn't even choose to be this public about it because our story was sold. Um, and so we're just like Jana said earlier on we're just trying to control the narrative. But still it's our decision as to consent to adults to share this stuff, and our families didn't ask for it, our families didn't sign up for So we try to keep it in the parameters of our relationship with you know,

just Janna I, and not include other people. What's your question? The other question? Oh, my other question? Bring them, but kind of not really with you being single now it's been five years, you have three kids, is there one? Is there someone in your past that you consider the

one that got away? No, but I did tell my therapist that I would love to date that way, like hit up people that I used today or just to hook up with them, Like I'm starting to think that like any of my friends that I would hook up with or whatever, but not right now. I did actually have this twenty one year old slide into my d m s, which is rare because like nine out of ten times or nine point nine out of ten times, the people sliding into my d m s are women.

But this twenty one year old hottie who lives nearby is like flirting with me and then even set me like some nude pics and I'm like, oh my god, if we were not in the middle of a pandemic, I would so hook up with him. But we're in the middle of a pandemic right now, and my mother lives with me and she's very high risk, and my kids live with me, and he doesn't even live in

Los Angeles. He lives in Orange County, So like, I'd have to waste money to go to a hotel and and just like be afraid for my mom's health if he has COVID or whatever it is. So my follow up question to you guys, it is like back and forth volleyball. I love it. What does your family think about your podcast or do they not even talk about it? Like they just let you do it and they don't never bring it up. I don't well, I don't think

my mom listen. I don't think anyone listens actually, because I don't think they want to hear, just in case if we do talk about because I talked, I've talked about my dad and you know, my daddy issues and but I mean my dad and there are great now, but you know he was upset about the book and um, and I I've kind of I don't know, I think they're afraid to listen and they don't want to know too much because they know we have our stuff and

they don't want to get involved or haven't. I don't know. Yeah, I know my mom listened to the on, but um, I think you had to Jane's point. I think they just kind of want to like no less. And my parents are very very private, conservative people, so it was an adjustment for them just for my life in general to be as public as it is. But then they've they've been able to see the positive spin that we put on things and how we've been able to help people,

so that's been beneficial. But no, they kind of stay away from it. And I'll also say to like kind of what my kids said we did are when I was doing Dancing with the Stars, a friend of mine, not anymore. He was very close to me. He was in our wedding. He was the one that actually sold the story, not sold. I'm sure he didn't get any money, but he gave it to us weekly. How do you know? How do you know? What was that friend? When I read the article, there was one thing in there, and

only he knew. He's the only person I told, so I know for there's no way that I would never even call him to be like, how dare you? Because he would probably lie about it. And then also I know, I like I did not tell anybody else like he was he was my best gay friend ever, and so it was it was awful. But I will say, you know, for Mike, you know, we we don't talk about this because he would have loved to have kept his anonymity. Most people don't be like, hey, I'm a sex addict

and like let's talk about it, you know. So it's yeah, I feel bad. No, it does suck, and it's it's a double edged sword where it sucks in the times where yeah, again, a lot of people in twelve step, whether in A A or an A no matter or O A whatever it is, right, anonymity is a big part of any twelve step program. Well, that was taken away from me, and so we've tried to make the

most of that again in a positive way. And at times I feel like it's a blessing disguise because I can walk into a room not questioning, Okay, does this person know this about me? Does this person know this about me? It's like, get everyone knows everyone here knows basically everything about me if they know us at all. So I am who I am. I can wear that on my sleeve and on my heart and if you don't like it, then you don't have to talk to me.

But I will say though, for people you know, you know, like with with what you do, because of course, like when we see the headlines, it's like, of course, like get to work, like I would probably say the exact same thing, and we can't have an interview with every single person that you know does these things. Um, but I would say, you know, I totally get like what you do. And I will say that I though, I

because I followed you from the very beginning. Um, was it hard for you when all the bullying stuff came out? How many was that ten years ago when you started to make the switch on your website. I mean it's still hard because you know, like you mentioned towards the beginning, you know, you think, well, our brains tell us a narrative and it may not always be the truth. You think that whenever there's an article that has written about

you too, it'll somehow mention that Mike cheated. And I think that unless something huge happens and changes this narrative for ever, perhaps because I mean, oh God, Like you know that radio talk radio host Rush Limbaugh died and there were so many people celebrating his death. I know, and I've told this to my therapist. I know if I were to die today, people would celebrate my death. And that's hard to accept, um and I but I

know that's the truth. And even though you know I'm still opinionated, I know I've changed, and I know I don't do things as I used to. Like I would have said, I would have said, oh, she should leave that, and then fill in the blank and she's such a blank blank for staying with him or whatever, like I could still have a loud opinion, but I don't think i'm doing like. I don't think saying she should divorce him is nasty, mean, cruel or hurtful. And I used

to be nasty, mean, cruel or hurtful. I owned that I was that. And what's funny is when I was that, I didn't think I was that. When I was doing that, I was telling my brain, it's not me, it's a character. It's not really me saying these things. So if people are upset at me, it doesn't matter because it's not me. It's like, I'm just like exaggerating what I believe and I'm you know, it's like and in many ways it's like an addict, Like I tell this to my therapist

as well. I at the time was so addicted to attention. It's a drug, right like the chemical releases, And I knew I knew what I was doing was wrong, kind of like when drug addict wants to take drugs. They they could intellect realize that this is maybe not maybe not the best thing to do. But I still did it anyways because I didn't care if I hurt somebody's feeling. All I cared about was getting attention for myself. And I really think, no matter how much, well that's not true.

I also tell my therapist and this could be wrong. There is one thing that could change people's perception of me, and that would be great, huge success doing something different.

Like let's say, um, they do a reboot of Glee, which I loved, and this let's say they cast me and I'm playing a character, a lovable character on Glee and that shows a huge global sensation, Then that almost could wipe away the sins of my past, and people would park it, maybe not ever forget it, but park it, put it aside and be like, oh wow, we love him on the New Glee. He's amazing. He's the best thing. And because I mean, I say, look at mel Gibson.

Mel Gibson said and did the most awful, hurtful, violent, racist, anti Semitic things, and yet all these years later, he's still a Hollywood A list and working because he's that famous. Or Um. Bill Cosby currently in jail serving time convicted of rape, and dozens of other women have accused Bill Cosby of rape as well. If he is released from jail before he dies, and if he wants to do a stand up comedy tour, he would sell tickets. A lot of people would go see Bill Cosby knowing that

he's a rapist, and they wouldn't care. They would still go and see him do stand up. Um, along those lines, what do you think then, about the cancel society that we're in right now where it's just you know, like the Chris Harrison and he's just like or or you know, what do you think about cancel site where it's just like, oh, you did this, You're done, and you're just you have to lose everything. I don't believe that cancel culture. Yeah,

I don't believe that it is real. I mean I believe that people will it to be real, but nine times out of ten it only helps people. Um. You know, if you look at YouTubers, who are a lot of them, many very problematic ones canceled. Being canceled ends up only helping them. Um. I mean, of course, there's always exceptions,

and there are times where people could really be canceled. Uh. I think we're reacting to four years of Donald Trump, and he and many others were fighting against political correctness, right, so we go from one extreme f political correctness too, then extreme cancel culture. And I don't think either of them are right. You know, Justin Timberlake recently came out with a very lengthy statement apologizing to both Britney Spears

and Janet Jackson. And even after apologizing, which let me tell you he didn't have to, because I don't because Justin timber Lake is like Bill Cosby or like Mel Gibson, he's canceled proof even if he's awful, people still love him and we'll go see him in concert. Or if

he feels like his reputation is severely damaged. He'll put He'll pull out his ACE card or his Trump card, whatever the expression is, and he'll say, you know what, people aren't liking me, So I'm gonna do an instinc reunion and have everybody love me again, because I'm gonna

give them the instinct reunion that they want. But he gave an apology, and I thought it was heartfelt and sincere, and despite that, so many people were like, not good enough, too late, be more specific, how are you going to be better? Blah blah blah. And it's like so many people want to want to permanently cancel people and not give people the opportunity to grow and be better and

do better. And that's like just crazy because nobody out there is perfect, nobody, no. And that's the frustrating part about it, is all these people saying not good enough, not this, not that. If they looked in the mirror for two seconds and think about the things that they did it just in their day, if they were to do that on a on a big stage like someone else, what would people say? You know, but it's easier to point the finger. And what's crazy too, is, you know, thankfully.

There's been a lot of discussion about media treatment and uh did we fail Britney Spears. And while I do think the media has changed a little bit, I don't know how much the general public has changed. I look back at Kanye West last year and so not even so many I would say, the majority of people when talking about Kanye West, we're not leading with empathy and compassion because he's struggling with his mental health as well. Or right now, you know, you're a singer as well

as an actress, Channa. American Idol currently is featuring the daughter of Kelly Anne Conway, Claudia Conway, who's just sixteen years old and suffering severely with her mental health. She has told us and made these very serious allegations against her mother. Some including myself, think American Idol is exploiting Claudia Conway for ratings. So oh, everybody's like poor Brittany,

But then like, why not poor Claudia too. It's like so many people media as well, and people are disassociated from things, and it's time also, you know, at the time, you know, I think of Diane Sawyer at the time when she was interviewing Brittany she really was speaking for so many people. Was she wrong Diane Sawyer at the time, Yes, we're all of these people wrong. Yes, But Diane Sawyer is not a villain. She's not a terrible, awful human being.

She mishandled an interview and for all we know, she's apologized privately. I don't know. I apologize privately to Britney Spears, and I've apologized publicly as well. And I did it sincerely because I'm not somebody who's gonna apologize for something just like no, I'd rather sit on my sword and sandy kind what I said if I truly believe that, But if I genuinely am sorry, then I will. So I've apologized to Brittney, I've apologized to so many people. I have so many regrets. If I could go back

in time and do things differently, I would. And that's not just b S. And I say that to everybody, like, really be careful of what you're saying on social media because that that's forever, and especially if you're a young person, it could come back to haunt you in five ten years time. Yeah, And I think you know, just kind of the moral of all of this is just nothing's perfect. Just do your best and you know, be kind and um, yeah, and and have conversations. And I appreciate you coming on

and having a conversation. And you know, I got to know you better. You've got to know us better, and you know now I consider us friends. So I just I appreciate you, and you know, I'm glad we were able to have this combo um our listeners, where can they find you at? Well, they can hear my podcast. Uh it's the Perez Hilton Podcast with Chris Booker. You can hear it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or directly at Perez podcast dot com. This week we talked Brittany, we

talked Claudia Conway, and a lot more. Uh, an Army Hammer update. That story is just wild, um and lots more so it's pop culture and um, you know, my co host is kind of like your husband. We're very different. Well, thank you guys, you so much. Man, We appreciate it.

Thank you. But I think that went well. Yeah, you know, I love what you said at the end there where it's just we hope people can have the conversation, right if you don't agree with what somebody else has to say or you think they have a false you know, or they have a misconception on what the situation is. Like, have the conversation if you're able to were fortunate enough to be able to have a conversation with someone like Perez or maybe someone that might say something about us.

But that's just it, right, Don't take it personal. Don't get all you know, bent out of shape. Just not the conversation. Yeah, because at the end of the day, look, we're going to say something else. The story we'll get run and we'll like the people that don't know us think we are that crazy to stay together, that you're just this and I'm just this, you know, I mean, just read the reviews on our you know, I'm a controlling freak that can't stop bringing stuff up. And he

is a cheater that will never stop cheating. So, you know, but what is in our marriage right now is we have a very strong foundation. We have our bad days, we have our amazing days, and that is we have more amazing days and bad That is very true. And you know, we just want to continue to bring hope to those couples that there is no perfect relationship if you do the hard work and someone is willing to

fight it out with you. You can be stronger than you or yesterday and today, and that is the good fight, ladies and gentlemen. Um, But team, what do you guys think? I think bringing him on was absolutely brilliant and it was such a better It's such a great way of resolving, that's such a great way of moving past and it's

so much more productive. That's some stupid Twitter war, Yeah, agreed, I agree, And I'm that's why I'm glad that you know he wanted to come on, because it was sitting with me weird and I'm like, you don't know us, you know, when you're telling us to get divorced, and I just and there's so many other outlets like that where but I'm like, with this is I would just

like to have the conversation. And I'm glad that he came on, and you know, he shared his his story and his addictions, and I liked his question about if we someone gave us a hundred million dollars, but we still do it because it's not about the money for us with this, it's not and it's like I didn't even have to think about it because it's truly not like, it's not every time we come on here and talk, it's not always fun because it's hard because we have

Mark and he's like, why were you fighting? Yeah? Tell us more. Yeah, I'm sure it is. Marks are very in his popcorn um, but no, it really is. It's like, Okay, even if we had all that money, it's like, well, what are we going to do on the day to day or weekly to keep us busy? Well, this because this is the most gratifying and satisfying, you know, for those intangible you know, just regular human being reasons and

we're helping. Right. That went nice, you know, I will say, I mean back in the day, it was just crazy, like going in there and you know, he would put things off the people's mouths with some of the most atrocious like I can't imagine if he was pressed now, like the presid then what he would like even said He's like, I'd probably say you cheating him or whatever. Like.

But I'm glad that he has changed his tune too, because I still look at his website, you know, and and to his point, even bringing up what he said about you know us, is like he didn't say anything derogatory or mean or he just stay as open he said, get divorced already, and then talking about us financially benefiting and that being the motivator, which is not the case. Well, um, I mean I'm pretty happy. How are you guys feeling

over there? Loved that he didn't back down. I thought he would come on and he'd be like, oh, everything's fine, I didn't mean and I'm just kidding. But he didn't back down. He dug in his heels and had his opinions and defended them and it still worked out great. Yeah, and he had nothing to say sorry for, so he he didn't even need to say he didn't he didn't say sorry, but he didn't need to say sorry because it was just about a conversation. There's nothing. He didn't

do anything wrong. But I could see I know what you're saying, though, Mark, because right you feel like so many people, it's easiest step on toes through social media, but then when they get confronted, they're like, oh, you know, I was just you know, just just throwing smoke on the fire, you know, throwing gas on the fire just didn't make it interesting. But yeah, he was just like, you know, the courage of his convictions and also he's such a good broadcast and interviewer. I love the questions

you ask you guys. It was very compelling. Yes, yeah, he asked great questions. I love the back and forth. We always love that dynamic of the back and forth. Okay, well, um, I gotta go to work, get out of here, boom, me and the kids got stuff to do. Oh guys, all right. I love you guys so much. And here's the here's your weekly motivation that we never do consistently. Be nice and you're on You're on this one. I'm looking at you too, like what honey, Just be nice

and do the best you can. And you're not going to be perfect. Just know that, Okay,